RM

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1:16Hi, come in.

1:23Welcome to Fashion Neurosis RM. Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure. It's really nice and comfy here. Can you tell me what you're wearing today and why you chose these particular clothes? So this is the new season of Prada. It's also one of my favorite brands. and yeah, you know, leading by Ralph Simmons. And he's also my favorite. And like, to be honest, I'm really, these days I'm really counting on my stylist, which is my friend. Shout out to Kim. And he recommended this shirt because usually I really like this kind of like muted and bleached, you know, like dyeings from the, natural elements.

2:20So with this color, I feel really natural and myself. Yeah, it's such an important thing that clothes, they have the power to really free you from self-consciousness. Sometimes. And you're the leader of BTS, one of the biggest bands of all time. And you've sold over 40 million albums and you're the only band since the Beatles to have three number one albums in a year. And you have a humility that's not associated normally with pop music. And I wondered why that's important to you.

3:01I think I never had a wish to be this big because I always wanted to have such influence to when you become an artist or an influencer, then sometimes you really want to reach as many as you can. So when you are in the middle of the pop music industry, Particularly, it feels really easy to be just interrupting, to be feeling like you have to make people happy. And you have to do that on the charts. And you're in the mainstream. So you should keep your influence and impact by the numbers and stuff. But why I chose this thing, no, maybe it's not that I chose.

4:22Somebody gave this thing to me. And if there's a reason, then I have a belief that it should be still starting from somewhere else. Not like you're trying to give people something. It should be rooted from where you are right now and what you are going through in your actual life. and the influences, the inspirations you're having from the life itself. So I think it's all about balance. So, you know, now I'm in the middle of the pop industry, so I have to keep the balance, like try to keep the distance from the numbers and impact itself and try to get close to the nature and all those kind of things that are not related to this fast, such a fast era.

5:38Yeah, so you can stay connected to the idea that is your inspiration. Yes, because as a young man, I'm 31 by the way it is really not that easy to be not to be interrupted by all those shorts and reels and clips it makes me really nervous and making me feel like I have to do something every day, every time I have to leave something but it's gone so fast so uh i have a like a i have my biggest fear uh for um those waves coming through so fast god it's a real mantle that you're wearing and was fashion a thing in your home and i wondered if anyone in your family who was there anyone whose style influenced you?

6:48My father wanted to be a, wanted to be a, like a cartoon artist. I don't know what it is called in English. He wanted to, he wanted to draw cartoons, but at that time in Korea, it was, we were really poor and we got nothing. So So my grandmother stopped him from what he really wanted to do. And my mother was a teacher. And so I think my father had some such craving and eager for something else except studies and jobs and stuff. so he was he was really quite supportive for what I was trying to do which is music and my mother she was really always trying to give me the stability and telling me not to challenge too much just be in the safe zone and I was like a small, like a clock pin going back and forth with my father and mother.

8:17So I think I've learned the balance from my parents. And they were such great parents to me. Because you've described experiencing Stondahl syndrome, where looking at certain works of art and feeling overwhelmed by the intensity of what you see. And I wondered if you'd ever had those kind of intense and extreme reactions to any fashion. I still remember when I first looked at the clothes of Rick Owens. And he was also in fashion neurosis, I know, because I washed it. And so there was a store in Seoul, but it's gone right now. Maybe because of the COVID. But I remember in 2014 or 15, I got no money.

9:30I couldn't afford any piece of Rick. But I still remember when I first entered the store of Rick Owens in Seoul. So there was a big sculpture of him, of course. and all those black waves and darkness of his world. And the silhouettes, they were really elegant. And I think that was the first time that I've got such a, like a standalone syndrome for clothes. And I first realized that, oh, a color called black could be various like this. And I was, I got shocked. That's such a great description because he's just so evocative and everything he does is so provocative. and also so moving, really, isn't it?

10:43Yeah, that must have been an amazing experience. I still love his clothes and, of course, his words. One of my favorite quotes from his fashion neurosis was that it went viral. Like maybe the people who don't care about fashion, it's just their, I mean, fashion is not their priorities and it could be hot. Yeah. I love that quote. I know. He's so great. I'm so glad you enjoyed that. It was my first guest. He was my first guest. And he was like a talisman. And so it's lovely that he comes back into our conversation. He is amazing. Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, Global Fashion News and Features Director at Vogue and co-host of the Run Through podcast.

11:40Each week on the show, our listeners get an all-access pass into the world of Vogue. On Tuesdays, join me as I interview influential designers like Calvin Klein, Rachel Scott, and Simone Bellotti. On Thursdays, join Chloe Mao, head of editorial content at Vogue US, and Choma Nadi, British Vogue's head of editorial content, as they explore fashion through the lens of culture with guests like Doja Cat and Margot Robbie. Listen and watch the run-through with Vogue wherever you get your podcasts and Vogue's YouTube channel. There's a civil war happening in the Democratic Party, and if there's one place that that's playing out most clearly, it's in Michigan.

12:19A crucial Senate primary battle in Michigan that could determine control of Congress in November. Congresswoman Haley Stevens and Abdul El-Sayed. A progressive Democrat and a moderate Democrat. In the end, it all comes down to the dreaded E-word, electability. But in Michigan, one candidate is trying to turn the electability concept on its head. If we think that voters walk around asking, where do I sit on some theoretical left-right spectrum? Then in theory, the bulk of the voters are somewhere in the middle. The problem, though, is that that model hasn't really accurately predicted our politics for a very long time.

12:55If Michiganders wanted moderate, why would they have elected Donald Trump twice? Dr. Abdul El-Sayed is making the progressive case for America first, and he's trying to settle the Democrats' ideological battle in the process. This is about the many versus the money. I'm Estet Herndon, and this is America Actually. Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. And being visible from such a young age, how much of your identity do you hide or reveal through what you wear? I describe it as like a life of an undercover.

13:37It's like you be a thief at night and act like a police officer at daytime, in the daytime. And I think I had a tough time for long to just admit it. Because when I was in my 20s, I thought that I should have like an edge. And I should be defined and described as just like one edge. But as time passed by and I got to realize that a human being and an identity could be really, it's always like so much of a complex and complicated. And it was all about the contradictions and dualities. so I'm still fighting with all those contradictions that how much should I reveal myself to the others to the public or how much should I hide my privacy or you know like I'm still figuring out like what to show and what to hide yeah but i think the best way to reveal your real real things is the art itself for me it's music so i'm trying to um reveal my bad things and demons i want to spit out um as music yeah I suppose that's what people can really relate to as well, because there is no such thing as a completely pure person.

15:46It's such a comforting thing to hear that described in music. Yes, it's amazing that, you know, when we see the great artists, their personal story could be universal. I think that's the beauty of an art. When it comes to a painter, a sculptor, or a fashion designer, architect, novelist, musician, their personal histories and their ways of dealing with their own trials and hardships in their lives. But all we could witness is their results and their final pieces of their digestion. And I think that is so beautiful to watch. And I always wanted to be someone like that. Well, you are. I mean, you seem...

17:03I'm trying. Yeah, I suppose that is the most, the difference maker is that we try and it continue, you know, that's the thing that drives us forward. And you come across as a very thoughtful person and you cite a lot of literary influences from writers like, including George Orwell and Murakami and even Carl Jung. And I wondered, what was the first book that changed your life? I think, well, just to add, I mean, I think I read much more when I was younger. And all those social media keeps making me not to read books. it's getting really harder and harder to watch cinemas and read books these days because I feel like bored sometimes I could watch the movies on Netflix and we could always stop so these days sometimes it feels like a luxury to go to a theater and make our phone to an airplane mode And just to be just leaded by a single director's intentions and artistry, it's becoming more rarer and rarer experience these days.

18:45So I think my first book, Like a Stundel Syndrome, was for books, I think it was Damien, if it's right, by Hermann Hesse. Yeah. Yes. And because I think I discovered the essence and the reality of my, what do we call it? Like jealousy. Oh, so interesting. Yeah. because Damien is being described like a perfect human being, very ideal type of human being. And the phrases, the start was really powerful, like about the bird and the egg, about the abraxas. So I think I've read it over like four or five times. really gosh when I was young I think I should read it again yeah I want to read it now you're describing it it felt like for me felt like a school life at that time the bad feelings and like jealousy I've had for the kids the friends I have in my class like very tall very handsome very smart or very good at sports, who's always popular from the girls.

20:29So I could reflect on my real life, even though if I was a teenager at that time. Yeah, I remember that. It's such a good book to have found because jealousy can be such a thwarting and crushing feeling. And I remember my shrink saying to me, I was talking about feeling how bad I felt to feel competitive with someone. He said, well, you can treat it as a game. And to read something at that young age, so kind of philosophical. And also that it's actually not that bad to feel jealous. It's part of finding out what you can handle. It seems an amazing book. How did you find that book? It was being treated like a classic and very, very recommended by the parents and teachers.

21:35So I think my parents always took me to the city library every weekend. And I think that's one of the best things that parents could do to their kids. So they just naturally gave me the chance to reach all those great ancestors and interesting results of the ancestors. Yeah. God. Yes. Because you have the demeanor of a man with the burden of leadership and how to use his power in a conscientious way. And I wondered, how do you deal with the loneliness that comes with being a leader?

22:32It's still hard because I was the first member of the team, the band. And the label did give me a lot of burden to put the team together as a team. And we had such different backgrounds from different cities and different tastes, different dreams. so I think I was really

23:13like overwhelming or very like a powerful type of like bossy type of leader for the first like eight, nine years but as the team got bigger and they have their own names and careers it just didn't work out anymore. So, of course, I mean, they grew up a lot also. So after that, I've changed the way to communicate.

23:55And I think a leader is just like this. For example, everybody is lying on the couch and the window is open and it's too cold. So somebody has to close it. But nobody wants to because it's too comfy here lying on the couch. It's so annoying. if a one single person has to stand off and get off the couch and walk a few steps to close the door then I think that's what a leader does for every part of the team that's all that's a huge thing isn't it it is a huge thing for some situations I suppose you, by getting up to close the window, you risk losing your place on the cozy couch. It is the act of courage and confidence as well.

25:05So I think it's basically really just annoying to be a leader. But it's like I just couldn't let anybody do it because I was like, if somebody has to do it, then it should be me. Because I just can't watch somebody else just doing it. And if it's not working out as I expected, then I could be more stressed out. so I think that's why and when they sometimes just tell me that I know your efforts and I'm really happy to have a leader like you and all those stress they're gone so that's the beauty of the team yeah well you're clearly very good at it because it's it's been 15 years I have been living with them and I spend half of my life, literally, with the six members.

26:18By the way, we have seven members in the team. Yes. Usually it's four, but we're seven. Oh, really? Gosh. The lucky number. Yeah. So it's a lot. It's wonderful. because for your solo album, Right Place, Wrong Person, you worked with Wing Sha. Yes. The legendary stills photographer who worked with Wong Kar Wai and his lighting techniques and framing, they propose you as an ordinary individual but clearly an exceptional person and in fashion everyone's obsessed with a mood for love and it's such a romantic, melancholy choice. And are those introspective moods somewhere you feel comfortable? Yeah, that's my favorite album so far because that's my most recent album.

27:15But thanks for noticing, by the way. That's so beautiful, the photographs. Sorry to interrupt you, Gary. I was really trying to get away from where I was because just by the excuse that I'm too busy just doing my role and doing all those schedules, I just realized that I'm too lazy these days for digging stuff and studying all those great art world outside. And when I was working on the album right before the military, I just tried to get away as far as I could. And Wingshot, of course, everybody loves Wong Ka Wee's movies. And it's really interesting that even the Gen Zs and the alphas, there are lots of fans of Wanka Wee still.

28:34So I think it's proving that he built such an, like his own original world by himself. And all I focused was just to be more chill and be not too nervous all the times. because being a leader of the team and the pop industry, they gave me a lot, but it also, they took many things from me. So the one thing was that I was always like this, like stuck in, I'll have to do this very well. I want to do this really good. I have to do my best all the time. So there was always some kind of tensions with my whole life. And I just tried to loosen it. And me and my team thought that Wingsha would be a wonderful artist who could lead me to another world.

30:01Wow. Because he always captures the, I think he has such like really sensitive like setups for those frames and the objects. But when he grabbed the camera, it feels like he just does it really rough and just in a second. Really? Gosh. Yes, so it was really new and a fresh experience for me to work with a bald hair. I mean, they're so striking, and that picture of you in a pool of light is just, it's like he's able to show more of you than maybe you might care to reveal, you know, with your privacy. But to see those pictures was very, I felt that I learned something more about you to look at them.

31:13There was such a depth to them. Oh, that's really wonderful to hear. Thank you. He will also like it. I mean, it seemed like a meeting of spirit and creative kind of. It was an old hotel, like dumped. Really? Yes, and I think it's just being used like a place for location for shootings these days because I think it's on sale, the building, but I think it's not sold yet. So it was really like a strange place, like back room. Oh, my God. So I think he's a veteran, so he captured maybe the blurry concept or the thing that I want to deliver in the title of Right Place, Wrong Person. Yeah. Because I think in 2026, most of the people could think themselves like that.

32:28Like when you are in a company and you feel like you're the only wrong person. Am I the only one who thinks like this or who acts like this? I think everyone may have an experience of feeling like he or she is a wrong person in a right place or a right person in a wrong place. Yeah. Feeling the outsider is a thing you hear a lot of people talking about. In terms of loneliness, you said, it's getting more connected and connected. by the phones and the media, but it's the contradiction that people with depression and loneliness are getting lot and lot these days. Yeah, it is. And you're constantly surprising in your artistic references.

33:34I noticed you had Kim Gordon's Bye Bye playing on one of your Instagram posts. and I love that. She's the, I know she was also on Fashion Neuroscience. Yes, she was. And I think she's the, everyone knows she's the coolest

34:00grandmother in the world. I know, she is. I don't want to call her a grandma, but she's the coolest. She is. Is it like, because I love that her music, that sort of punk music, that was my generation. And if I wanted to listen to a Korean singer who embodied that kind of crackle and tension and sort of thing that she has, who would you recommend? Really, really strong and intense. You should listen to No Brain. No Brain, okay. You could already feel the... I get it already. The band is called No Brain. Yeah. And I think the coolest grandfather who's still ongoing, like Kim Gordon, his name is Kim Chang-wan.

34:57And he was also in a band called Sanul Lim, which is translated as The Echoes of the Mountain. It's like Sonic Youth of Kim Gordon. Wow, yeah. I think it's very psychedelic, but I think he's truly one of the best Korean artists in the history. So I would recommend you No Rain and Kim Changwon. Okay, I'm going to check them out. That's exciting. And you're interested in art, and you have a sophisticated taste in paintings and sculpture. I read that you like Philip Guston and Giacometti, and you have an amazing collection in your home, mostly of Korean art. And I wondered, what was the first piece of art that you knew that you liked?

35:52On tour, when you're doing a tour, sometimes you just can't go out because there are a lot of fans, and it's really hard to just be on your own. so I was in 2018 I was really really bored and I got nothing to do I didn't know anything except like shopping or playing games in the room so just it just suddenly popped up and uh the a member of the team called V just proposed me like why don't we go to a museum And I was like, a museum? I'm not a museum guy. Isn't it just boring just to go there? But we just went there because we got nothing to do. and I saw the paintings of Monet and Van Gaal and Sarah.

36:57And of course I knew the names of them because I saw them in the book when I was in school. But it was literally the first time to just ever physically to have a chance to look at their actual paintings. And I think Impressionism is still the biggest, the most widest open entrance for all of the outside people in the art world. So Monet and Gaw and Sarah, they opened me the entrance.

37:55And as I got into it further and further, more and more, my taste became a little bit more of a complex and complicated. So, yeah, that's how I just got into it. Because in the video, you have a little sculptor by Ugo Rondinoni. Oh, yeah. Which I love. I once went to his house in New York. Oh. And he had all these crazy sculptures everywhere. It was really exciting. I just loved how he just added the colors to the rocks. Yeah. And so it just, it twisted, you know, art helps you make it widen for your perception to the world. and after I saw the colors of his rocks and stones, I think he gave me a twist of when I also see the actual mountains and rocks.

39:11So I just love that. Oh, that's great. Because you talked about something called airport fashion and you said people expect me always to wear something new. And I wondered what your favorite airport fashion is at the moment.

39:32Airport fashion. Such a good expression. Yes. Is there my favorite airport fashion? I remember when I first say, I think it was like 12 years ago. and like 2013 or 14 and I got to know the collective, the crew, our future of Tyler, the creator and Frank Ocean, all sweatshirt. And I just got to love their vibes. And so I was not very rich at that time. So all I could buy was the T-shirt of Golf Wang. And when I look at the picture of those times, it's ridiculous because I'm wearing pink socks and the donuts for the T-shirt. But I kind of like it because it reminds me of the times that I was really more pure and younger.

40:54And I just got to realize that if you hate something too much, then you kind of like it. Yes. That's so true. If you really hate it, then you just got no interest. That's such a brilliant point. It's always, there's something in there, isn't there? Yes. So, ironically, it's my favorite. The pink socks. Yeah. And are there certain garments that make you feel better when you're feeling low? I call it, in Korea, maybe. Me and my friends call it, like, the hills. and I have my hills and they are I think the nature is always the best therapist 70 % of Korean land is made of mountains so we could go hiking in every cities so mountains rivers and the sea we also have sea in Korea too so They are my teachers and therapists and mostly the friends because I don't like myself sometimes when I feel like I'm too obsessed with the relationships.