5 Questions to Unlock Your Inner Potential | Dr. Mike Gervais - AMA Vol.29

14:20Jeff Byers:Telling you what you don't want to hear,

14:22Dr. Michael Gervais:but what you need to hear. Amen. Right? And for the parents listening right now, you can get ahead of this thing, right? It is not a prerequisite that you foreclose on your identity for your kid to do well in sport.

14:35Jeff Byers:Yep.

14:36Dr. Michael Gervais:It's not a prerequisite. it is a natural thing that happens for the untrained family.

14:41Jeff Byers:Yes.

14:42Dr. Michael Gervais:We don't know better. You've had no idea, okay? Because what we want as parents is, we see our kid good at something or they like how they feel when they're doing. And then we know as an adult, like, oh, there's potentially a really exciting future that my kid could do something they're good at. That's an exciting path forward. You need to practice more. You need to be more into it. Why are you not, you know, to do. And so there's this press to foreclose the identity around the more narrow thing. You don't have to do that. Right. So we talk about identity now too, right? I'm the co-founder,

15:15Jeff Byers:CEO of Momentus. That's right. Is that your identity right now? No.

15:18Dr. Michael Gervais:Oh, good. I was going to say, oh, so you haven't gotten through it yet.

15:20Jeff Byers:Because I learned that lesson, right? And there's going to be an end. And that's not like what Momentus is and the special business that we're trying to create in culture. It's not who I am. That's a part of me, but there's going to be Jeff after that. Jeff lives beyond Emily, you live beyond sport, right? But what you learn in sport shapes you, right? And what you have to find and what I found right after I retired. And I don't know if somebody said this or whatever. I went back and said, what did I love about sport? What just like, why do I dream about it? what makes it so special to me. And then you go find things in your life to replicate that.

16:01Jeff Byers:You pull those things. Like, I love this uncomfortableness. We talked about in the last AMA, like I love feeling uncomfortable and like always having to earn it every single day. Love it. I love that. Like there's like this continuous pursuit of getting better. Nobody's good enough, right? As an athlete, like you never reached the pinnacle. You never settle. I love that. And I love team. I love being responsive to people and like having that like sense of like, Ooh, can I trust this person? Can I trust that person? And like, that's what I went and chased. And that's why I became a founder, an entrepreneur is because that stress, that uncomfortableness, that change, that ever evolving was something that I loved about sport.

16:41Jeff Byers:It took inward reflection of that. And I didn't find it right away.

16:45Dr. Michael Gervais:What you're talking about is a kind of a two-step process, which is you felt some pain. You did some self-discovery work. You pulled forward. I failed. How did you fail?

16:54Jeff Byers:I went into finance, realized it was not who I was, not what I wanted to be. I could make a ton of money. And I was like, it's not about money. It's not about an easy life. It's about what fuels the fire, right? So I spent like two years post.

17:08Dr. Michael Gervais:So you would suggest to Emily, you'd say in your self-discovery process, independent of where you arrive, understand the core ingredients that have been important for you. through the sport process and figure out how to go build or replicate or be part of those core elements in the next phase. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Rag & Bone. I've been a big fan of Rag & Bone for a number of years. I just love what they do. It's a go-to for me when I'm choosing clothes. I've been wearing their infused denim for a while now. They've done just a really nice job with this product. For me, I am really intentional about what I invest in.

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19:57Jeff Byers:And also as you transition out, you're going to fail. Likely you're going to find things you don't want to do. And that is almost as important as finding what you want to do. It's cool. Right. And just like for you, like you went into this field of psychology, right? It is miles and miles wide. Right. And you found out what you didn't want to do in this field and you found out where your sweet spot is. Yeah. Right. And like, you found out you didn't want to do those things by doing those things.

20:24Dr. Michael Gervais:You're right. And you know, I had, I had a mentor that early on that said something really cool to me. She said, the field of psychology is wide open. You can do anything you want in it. Like, what do you want to do? And she said, do you want to be kind of down the career transition? This is a pathway in psychology. Do you want to do transition? Do you want to do youth? Do you want to do, what do you want to do? I was like, I want to be around people that are kind of obsessed about getting better as I am. I was not healthy with that obsession. And she's like, oh, okay, that's probably like in the elite phase.

20:52Dr. Michael Gervais:And I go, I'm not interested in that. I'm more interested in being around people that I understand because that's how I'm living. which happen to be some of the most extraordinary doers because they're all in on it. And I want to go back to one more piece for Emily. Is there a time, a time thing that you put on yourself? Like how did you do the anxiety of, I don't know what I'm going to do next?

21:17Jeff Byers:I probably have a different approach than most.

21:20Dr. Michael Gervais:What'd you do?

21:21Jeff Byers:I just did what I know how to do. Just go face first into working hard.

21:26Dr. Michael Gervais:Well, that's as an O-line. That is what you do. What I do.

21:29Jeff Byers:Face first. Right. What I know is I've always been programmed. Athletes are very programmed, meaning like you're always doing, right? You're always going, right? And I found that - You say programmed, I think structured. Structured. Yeah, structure is a better word than programmed. Structured, yeah.

21:43Dr. Michael Gervais:Like meaning you know how to show up on time, you know how to bring your intensity and your focus to do the things.

21:48Jeff Byers:But you always had something.

21:49Dr. Michael Gervais:But, and one of the other dangers of sport is for most stick and ball sport, you've got an adult telling you what to do. Which, okay, that's good as a, maybe a subordinate in a corporate environment, like you know how to take leadership in that way. But that's not what, you didn't do that.

22:06Jeff Byers:No, I just went and like, I need to be busy, right? I need it. I see the, right? Like there are these people like, oh, I'm going to take two years off. Right. And I think that is actually more, I believe it's more detrimental. Just go do, right? Go get an internship, go work for your friend, go do something. And if it doesn't work. Like it doesn't work. You have to be okay with that because I think the space, right? Athletes aren't used to space and then they spin and they're like, well, you know, like I've talked to so many athletes. Well, I don't like, I want to do what you do, Jeff. I'm like, you, you do know, I retired over a decade ago and this path to get to where I am today, where I am today looks super cool.

22:47This path was really hard.

22:50Jeff Byers:And I can't, like, you can't jump to starting middle linebacker, right? Pro bowler to CEO of a company. Transitioning doesn't happen, right? Like it came over time, right? Of like grow and grow. And like, I don't know, like I find for me personally, putting myself in the mix helped. Sitting back didn't help. And I found what I loved and that Like while you're in the freight, in the washing machine, I found out this is what I love, this is what I don't. This is what I love, this is what I don't. This is what I love, this is what I don't. I think if I would have taken a year and a half off, I would have been like finance is a jam and I would have just delayed my evolution of what matters to me.

23:29Dr. Michael Gervais:When I hear that, I also hear that that is, you matched your process that fits best for you. Oh, yes. And time away could be best for somebody else. But they need to know, this is the value of self-discovery and the value of what I call psychology. I think about it as like the study of yourself.

23:46Jeff Byers:Yeah.

23:47Dr. Michael Gervais:You know, like that's one version of it. Like you got to know yourself. And then if you think like, oh, I need time, experiment with that. Or I need to be active, experiment with that.

23:55Jeff Byers:Yeah.

23:55Dr. Michael Gervais:It doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It's like an intuition or a thought and then follow that and run many experiments. Yeah. To figure that. Yeah. And so you ran an active experiment.

24:05Jeff Byers:An active experience. Because I'm like, you're exactly right. Like I was the kid, like Kansas Hill, always busy. Like I have a very hard time. Like my gas pedal is typically on the floor and it's been on the floor since I was a really, really little kid. And I just like who I am.

24:19Dr. Michael Gervais:I love this. Do you, when you think about your identity now, do you feel like you've got clarity on that?

24:25Jeff Byers:I don't always, right? I do feel at times I'm an imposter, right? I'm like, why am I, do I have the right to be here? Have I done the things to earn this privilege? Right. And for me, I think that's part of what also makes you a great athlete is like this, like like inner drive to be better. Like, right. Like it's not like self doubt. It's like, I got to earn it today. I need to earn it today. I got to earn it again and again and again. And so I think as an identity of like, I think about where I'm at and the seat that I'm in, the success that I had. And it's like, did I earn it? I nope, got to earn it today.

24:59Jeff Byers:Right. It's like, it's like that I got to earn every day. Like nothing's given, everything is earned. And it's like, man, can't believe I am where I'm in. And I've like, you know, like transitioned and have a really successful career in business. And did I earn it? Nope. Got earned it today. Right. Welcome to the club.

25:14Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. You know, like this is not unfamiliar, you know, for me too. I'm better at that now because I I've been able to, with self-discovery practice, like, what is this thinking about being a fraud? You know, what, what is that really about? But anyways, okay. So, all right. Nice one. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. That was great.

25:34Jeff Byers:We went on a good one there. Yeah. Oh, this one's anonymous. I'm a full-time working mom of two and I've been married for 10 years. My relationship with my husband has turned into a roommate situation. I feel like I've put a lot of energy and work into my work, my marriage and my family. I'm not sure if I feel burnt out, but lately I have a feeling as I'm going through the motions, I feel like I'm lacking adventure or the spark of something. I'm grateful for what I have to do in my life, but feel as if something is missing or I'm just on autopilot. I've done therapy, have been regularly journaling and been meditating.

26:06Jeff Byers:What advice can you give to someone that sometimes just feels stuck. Have you felt stuck? Yeah. Yeah, you do.

26:15Dr. Michael Gervais:You know what? For me, it's not stuck. It's like, I feel like I get in the fog. Yeah, that's a good way to say it. And sometimes that fog is really thick. And other times, like I can see kind of my feet, you know, and sometimes like, I just know I need to use my sense as well to navigate. A couple of things that stick out for me in this question is she's working it. She's doing self-discovery work for therapy. The second thing, and so I'm pinning this for my mind. That's one element. The second element is that I don't know her age, but I would say that we need to take a look at, make sure that there's not a biological piece happening here as well.

26:50Dr. Michael Gervais:There's also thyroid as a general. Anytime there's a malaise, I think that's really important. I can't give advice in this way, but I can point to a couple indicators. On the therapy piece, the idea of having a comfortable place to go sit to do self-discovery is, I don't think it's right. It doesn't work for me that way. That's not how I work. I want to create a safe space to support and challenge somebody, to be their very best. And it's more intense and it's more brief rather than enduring and ongoing. Now, listen, that's one flavor of how to do it. But I would take a look at that and make sure that the relationship you have with your therapist is not a place that's comfortable to complain.

27:30Dr. Michael Gervais:That the therapist is actually not codependent in the way that they water and nurture the discussion of what's wrong. Now I'm being a little inflammatory about psychotherapy, if you will, but I'm biased in the approach and how I work and what I've seen that fits my temperament and also fits the people that are ambitious in their life. Is it know them, understand their scars and tissues, their hopes and dreams, and really help them and you as well hold a standard for them to be their very best. And it is support and challenge. It is unconditional positive regard with a standard to do the work, to become the person you want to be.

28:08Dr. Michael Gervais:And then we kind of rotate that with as much moments of being fully you as you possibly can. It's a mouthful, but this is me pointing to, is the therapy doing you justice right now? Okay. And the second piece is I would run a program to make sure that your biological pieces are making sense and there's not some sort of deficit. For example, my wife and I, we run two blood tests a year, call it a high-performance blood draw. I'm sure you do the same or some variation of it. And what that does is it helps me know the choices that I'm making nutritionally and behaviorally and psychologically. Are they supporting from a blood draw standpoint?

28:45Dr. Michael Gervais:Is it working? And so there's been phases where my omega-3s are, there's a deficit, which means that my myelin sheath in my brain nervous system is compromised. That means that I'm not thinking the way I could. And, and, and, and, okay? Heart health for omegas. And, and, and. So I think that there's something important to take a look at there. And then there are also the third variable is like feeling stuck to me is a cousin to hopelessness, is a cousin to like not feeling as though that the person has the agency to make the change that they want. So either they don't see it, like the change that they want, the compelling future, you know, that they're working towards, or they can see it and they feel like they can't affect the change to make that happen.

29:29Dr. Michael Gervais:I don't think you relate to that. I think you are so high in agency. Actually, you're high in what's called efficacy. Agency is like, no, I'm going to choose. I choose. Yep. And efficacy is a kind of psychological term for sense of power. I feel powerful. So it's, I choose and I think I can make something pretty special happen. So that efficacy rests on agency. Agency is, no, I choose. I'm going to do this thing. And efficacy is when I choose and I apply myself to it, good things happen.

30:03Jeff Byers:Yeah.

30:03Dr. Michael Gervais:So how do you build efficacy? Well, according to Dr. Bendora, one of my mentors, I got to meet him before he passed and he was on the podcast. Amazing human. He's got a handful of ways that you increase efficacy. I'll put it in the show notes, unless you want to hear what those things are, but just really quickly, mental imagery, vicarious experience, arousal regulation, and kind of being in the amphitheater of risk. those are the handful of ways to increase efficacy.

30:30Jeff Byers:Yep. I resonate with what you said, right? Like, I don't know if I ever been like, I'm stuck. Right. But I know people like this.

30:38Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. But you resonate with the fog piece. Like it's not clear. Yeah. I'm a little unsettled. There's some anxiousness in, I got to rely on some of my sensory information, my intuition, right.

30:48Jeff Byers:Cause I can't see it, but I can't see it. But for me, right. I do some of the things that just mentioned. Like I just go, right? But when I see this and the people I know on this, I think we have such an overload of social media. This is what we're supposed to be or supposed to look like, right? Overall that we as a society can sometimes paint a picture of who we should be versus who we want to be.

31:12Dr. Michael Gervais:Wait, I would of course correct that.

31:14Jeff Byers:I like what you just said, but I would tune that

31:16Dr. Michael Gervais:one more, who we should be versus who we are. Who we are. Because everything you need, this is a first principle for me. Everything you need is already inside you. You are already it. It's always available to you. Just like the sky is always available. You know, it's always there. Who you are is intimately on demand, always available. We get clouded. And sometimes so like, you know, the other thing is like, if I was to ask anonymous, if anonymous was with us right now is I'd say, what do I need to understand about your life experiences to understand why you feel stuck? Like if I lived, this is my, another first principle.

31:59Dr. Michael Gervais:If I lived the life, unique life experiences that you had, I'd probably feel stuck too. So let me just understand what those things are. And that in of itself with that type of information is really illuminative. And so maybe that's something anonymous you can wrestle with a little bit. Like what are the things that have led to you feeling stuck and then maybe invest in the psychological skills training of the four factors of self-efficacy. Yeah.

32:24Jeff Byers:Yeah. One of the things that can really help in this is just like, not just talking to a therapist, talking to your partner, right? Talking to your friends, right? Like, hey, I'm feeling like we're in a rut, right? Like I think that, oh, it gets you out. Like I'm kind of clouded. We're not connecting.

32:41Dr. Michael Gervais:You know what happens when people feel stuck is they'll blame others. So I agree 1000%. However, two things to caution, right? Is when you are talking to your others, you're reaching out, be aware that there's a difference between looking to be understood and there's a difference between looking for solutions. Okay. And neither of them involve blaming or complaining. And so oftentimes when I feel helpless powerless like if i feel in that stuck state which this is not a very common place but there are triggers for me i'm sure there are triggers for you too is that i'm like this is not me i'm it must be you i'm at my worst when i do that yes and my wife right away like if we're kind of in a in a throes of something she's like whoa you know what you know like because we're both got that lying kind of thing about us and so and instantly i'm like oh yeah look i need to own my stuff.

33:38Dr. Michael Gervais:It is not anything you just said or did. And so that's this fast, you know, the OODA loop is right. Observe, orientate, decide, act as many OODA loops as we can do together. We're kind of, I think a more dynamic, healthier relationship. A hundred percent. Yeah. Body Mastery is brought to you by Fatty 15. Did you know that Navy dolphins helped unlock a secret to healthy aging? It's a wild story and it's the foundation for a product that I've come to really love, Fatty15. Fatty15 is built around C15, the first essential fatty acid discovered in over 90 years. And it was discovered by Dr. Stephanie Van Watson.

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34:53Dr. Michael Gervais:For me, it's a great way to switch on my mind, to ready myself to take on the day. So before I check my phone, my emails, market updates, or text threads, I choose how to start my morning. That's always in my control. That's always in your control too. This is the same morning mindset routine that some of the world's top performers across sport, business, and the arts are using. The best part, it only takes about 90 seconds to do. So just head over to findingmastery.com slash morning to download the audio guide for free. Again, head to findingmastery.com slash morning to get your morning mindset routine.

35:32Jeff Byers:so anyways cool stuff all right let's move to ryan i'm having a hard time defining my purpose i'm not completely directionless as i have a career and family hobbies that i love but when asked to define what it is that drives me what it is that i can use to help guide me i don't have a concrete answer any tips for how to help identify and define a purpose yeah it's

35:55Dr. Michael Gervais:cool i love this question i think that this is one of the big rocks to get in a container to be a thriving human. And so, and the research on it is really clear. You know, whether you look at the Harvard study, the 85 year old longitudinal Harvard study that said basically kind of to live a good life, there's two main variables, purpose and connection, a la relationships. So it's less clear when I read that and kind of some of the other work around, you know, being and becoming your very best purpose keeps coming up, but there's no clear, I don't know, steps. Like it's, okay. The science is that it has three components.

36:33Dr. Michael Gervais:It matters to you. It's bigger than you. And it's out in front of you. Great. What do I do? How do I do that? This is going to sound cheeky for just a moment, but we built a course called Purpose Mindset and it rests on three main variables that have a whole set of practices. Okay. So what is your philosophy? That's different than purpose. Okay. Your philosophy, it's a clean way to identify your first principles in life. Every day is an opportunity to co-create a living masterpiece. And so my philosophy, if you break that apart every day, meaning today and tomorrow and yesterday, every day is an opportunity.

37:07Dr. Michael Gervais:So see how I'm framing like life and challenges? It's an opportunity. What? To co-create together with other people, right? A living masterpiece. And a living masterpiece is something that is organic. It's right at the edge of, you know, it's this beautiful thing that we're putting together. So every day is an opportunity to co-create a living masterpiece. That's my philosophy. Now that rests on a handful of values and first principles. And we explain this in the course, how to do that. And then we also need to know what your vision is. What is the compelling future? We also help you support making a fundamental commitment.

37:42Dr. Michael Gervais:And then we walk you through how to take all of that information and put it into a purpose. Like, what is your purpose? You can take the course. I think it's a good bit of work, but also you need a pen and paper and you just go to work. And on those three variables, you say, what really matters to me above all else? What is so compelling about my future that I'm willing to work toward it? And what are the first principles that are going to guide me as I go on this adventure? And you get kind of that stuff in whatever. And then you say, in the most convenient way possible, my purpose is, And I can answer that for you as well.

38:18Dr. Michael Gervais:It's to help people live in the present moment more often. Why? Because the present moment was where everything that's true, beautiful, and good are experienced. And so that is the keyhole for me to be able to help people create a life of flourishing. So simple kind of process that sits underneath what I just said, but it takes time.

38:36Jeff Byers:Yeah. What I found personally is it refines over time. It gets tighter over time. And sometimes it changes, right? And I think about mine, it's like box, it just keeps going. It's like, oh, yours is really tight.

38:51Dr. Michael Gervais:But I've been working this thing for a long time.

38:54Jeff Byers:But that's my advice to Ryan.

38:56Dr. Michael Gervais:Is start somewhere.

38:58Jeff Byers:It can be just you thinking about purpose is really important. I love how you're honoring wherever somebody is in the path. Because we all start somewhere. I don't know. For me, I'm on different places in my journey everywhere. And one of the things that pisses me off the most is when somebody talks to me, right and it's like well no just be here and i'm like i'm not like i don't even know where there is

39:20Dr. Michael Gervais:right you know what i want to also do is like i want to reinforce what you're saying is like we're all trying to just figure it out and then we're at different stages and again if i lived your life or i understood the most important shaping mechanisms i'd understand where you are too yeah and a big part of doing life well is having people that understand each other and we're good teammates, good partners, you know, good friends. And I also think that the science also backs this or the research around it backs this is that for purpose, it doesn't need to be grand and big. It doesn't mean that I need to do water wells in this country, or I need to save children in this part of the world.

39:56Dr. Michael Gervais:And you know, it doesn't need to be huge. It can be intimate and kind of more narrow in that respect. It just needs to be honest. Again, purpose, it rests on, does it matter to you? Is it bigger than you? And is it something to work toward? Is it out in front of you. And, you know, I also want to say to Ryan, send me your email and I'll send you the course. Right. And so no cost. Yeah, no cost. No. I just want to honor that there is a solution. And for people that can't afford it and people that don't want to pay for a course like this, get a paper and pencil out and answer some of the questions that

40:28Jeff Byers:we've just spoken about. And again, like it's an evolution. It's a process. That's right. Right. And if you knew it right away, it wouldn't be. I mean, some people like, Like, I'm sure my sister has had something written down since she's 12 years old, right? Like that's who she is as a person. But for me, the journey to get there is as or more important than it is to actually have that.

40:53Dr. Michael Gervais:So much so that like, let's give both of us space that you and I don't know what's going to happen in the next kind of 10 minutes or the next day. And something so radical in our life could take place that it would fundamentally shift our purpose. Yes. And this could be a trauma or it could be something that is benevolent. Keep it open. Yeah.

41:13Jeff Byers:A lot can happen.

41:14Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah, a lot. A lot can happen.

41:15Jeff Byers:Keep it open. Yeah. Yeah. Next one is Laurel. As a longtime active duty military spouse, still my three professional and personal drivers are people, place, and purpose. We've lived around the globe, moved 23 times, dang, and gardener perspective most could only imagine. My lifelong question is, what does community mean today? Finding community, joining a community, sports, military, professional, it has to go beyond the digital realm. And would that fix most things for all of us? What does community mean today?

41:51Dr. Michael Gervais:No, I don't think it fits. It's a necessary component, but not the only. Yeah. You know, there's more to life. But when I hear community, the question is, what does community mean today? I think that's a philosophical question more than anything. But for me to make it more first principle based, community is the artifact, if you will, of the relationships. So the way that we relate to each other and the way that we are relating to a shared way of living is really what community is. And so I make it more simple to say, what is your relationship with yourself? What is your relationship with your people?

42:25Dr. Michael Gervais:And do you have a bunch of people that are kind of interested in the same thing? That's a community. What I'm in control of is the way that I am relating to myself so that I can be a great teammate, a great partner, a great friend to other people. And if we're interested in the same things now, call that a community.

42:41Jeff Byers:Yeah.

42:42Dr. Michael Gervais:You know, so it could be digital.

42:43Jeff Byers:Yeah. I don't think a community means being interested in the same things.

42:46Dr. Michael Gervais:What do you think it means?

42:47Jeff Byers:When I think about the lack of community, some people may have, and I think we have in society, it's a dehumanization of our fellow man or woman. Right?

42:56Dr. Michael Gervais:Say that again. Like, that's a big idea. When you think of community, you think of?

43:00Jeff Byers:I think of people that you have a responsibility to, and you are more alike than different. And when I think about like communities and whether you're religious or not, one of the greatest things about church is it created community, right? And what it finds is like, we're all more alike than we are different. Democrat, Republican, you're way more alike than that person that has very opposing views, right? You care about more of the same things when you dig deep down into it, then you don't. And I think the dehumanization of people, right? The demonization of like, oh, you're not like me. You think differently than me.

43:38Jeff Byers:Whatever it may be is a very dangerous slippery slope that breaks community. Because when you think back of like community is the support system that we have, this accountability that we have to people around us, right? This inherent sense of belonging, right? It's not about you and me liking each other or you and me having similar hobbies. I don't believe that. That's friendship. Cool. I like what you're doing. Community is, oh, there's an elderly person that needs help. We help them, right? Community is this person, right? It's going through a hard time. Yeah, I'll pick your kids up from sports, right?

44:13Jeff Byers:And we could vote differently. We could fundamentally disagree. But like, I go through hard times too. Like some people need help, right? And it's like this sense of building. And the people that have, give. and the people that don't have, right, will have at some point, right? And they give on there. So I think we are dehumanizing each other in society versus we're all more alike than we are different. We all have struggles. We all like, and if we just sit down and have conversations, we all get better.

44:44Dr. Michael Gervais:I like this responsibility, giving piece, belonging as elements to how you're defining community. And so some of the most ancient of practices you've just described them. I do think the community for me, there's a reason to be part of the community that I think on the surface, it sounds like, oh, we all like, I don't know, basket weaving.

45:05Jeff Byers:Yeah.

45:05Dr. Michael Gervais:Yes. And there's a reason why it exists.

45:08Jeff Byers:Yeah. Whether it's like a geographical. Judaism or Christianity or Islam or whatever.

45:13Dr. Michael Gervais:And then you go kind of up four levels and talk about global community. But all that being said is Laurel moved 23 times.

45:20Jeff Byers:Yeah.

45:21Dr. Michael Gervais:I don't want to miss that because that means she's really good at knowing how to fit in and be part of something and or like what she likes, what she doesn't like. There's a unique thing about moving 23 times that of course she's calling for community. And I hear maybe Laurel, you didn't have a felt community or maybe you got to be parts of lots of communities. I don't know that part of it, but there's an embedded question about the in-person piece. And I don't want personally, but just the digital community. I like it. There's parts of it I really do like. I know that there's another aspect of the in-person, neurochemistry, the eye contact, all of that stuff that is, I need it.

46:05Dr. Michael Gervais:So I don't know where, Laurel, you're going with that piece. Do you have a thought on this, Jeff?

46:09Jeff Byers:I think it was a very philosophical question. And like, even Laurel, you say, it must go beyond the digital realm. And what I just heard you say is you 100 % agree. I do too. We are social beings. It's how we evolved, like it or not, right? Touch, feel, breath, those things matter, right? And when there's a screen that divides you, digital should enhance community, I believe. It should never be community. Well, let me point counterpoint.

46:41Dr. Michael Gervais:I agree just for clarity, but there are folks that are so overwhelmed by in-person experiences that they struggle to be part of a community because of the overwhelming nature of being in person.

46:52Jeff Byers:Yep.

46:52Dr. Michael Gervais:You know, for lots of reasons, you know, high cortical arousal or trauma or, you know, whatever. So there is like this great benefit to it.

47:01Jeff Byers:A hundred percent.

47:01Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. So I think for the most part, though, the slide towards digital, as opposed to the slide towards in person is not the right slide.

47:08Jeff Byers:There's always the exception and where things really work for some people. Right. And if you're one of those people, it's amazing, right? Because you probably used to be very lonely, right? And like, that's so powerful, but everything is a balance in life.

47:26Dr. Michael Gervais:You know, one last piece is you're really good at community, your business, you guys work out together. So you and your employees work out together, like community matters to you. So I really, I really appreciate how you've kind of rounded out this piece of it. Thanks.

47:40Jeff Byers:Yeah. On this, Vince has a good one as a next one that's talking about digital with the focus on AI, are we taking our eyes off the ball on the importance of human potential and mindfulness for the sake of machine learning? I don't know. Somebody who's embraced AI, right? But also believes deeply in the human being.

48:01Dr. Michael Gervais:Some of the work I've done with, let's call it one of the largest tech firms in the world is be an agitator for you have a responsibility to use AI for human good. And so this is not a new thought, but there's such an overwhelming sense that if you're not figuring out how to use AI that you're falling behind, you know, like, I don't know.

48:22Jeff Byers:Incredible fear. Yeah. Yeah. I see it from my team. From a business operator. You know.

48:27Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. Now is like a really important time to be tuned to what AI can do. It's coming. It's here. It's still more to come. And this is the way we're thinking about it right now is how do we democratize or socialize what we know to be the best practices for people to become? You know, so that's an important thing that here at Finding Mastery, we're paying attention to. How do we use AI benevolently for good? And also internally, how do we use AI to be good thought partners for us? And the concern that we have is most of the AI models right now are designed to affirmatively please. Yeah. And, you know, you really need to make sure that it is scrubbing the ideas honestly, as opposed to like just favorably coming up with a convenient answer.

49:08Dr. Michael Gervais:So I don't know. I think that if we are not paying attention to best practices to be our very best, that we're missing the foundational step in the process. To be part of something bigger is a foundational first principle step. So I'm not overly concerned about like, is AI, are we taking the ball off of AI for human potential? Rather, how are we using this new tool to enhance the potential.

49:31Jeff Byers:Yeah. How I see AI, you can put a giant list of all the things that are wrong with it from environmental to jobs. AI is here, right? And it's a tool, no different than, you know, the iPhone, no different than the PC, no different than an automobile, a weapon system. Railroads, industrial revolution. They can be used for good and they also will be used for bad, right? Like AI will be used for bad things for sure. Because there are people out there that are not good or not good intentioned, et cetera.

50:04Dr. Michael Gervais:Reminder that the majority of people when given the opportunity act in good faith.

50:08Jeff Byers:A hundred percent.

50:09Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. So that research just for folks that are like overwhelmed by what bad actors, the majority of people will do the quote unquote right thing to fit in with society and social norms. But the outsized impact of a bad actor with this type of tool is actually really, really dangerous.

50:25Jeff Byers:I think about, is it taking our eyes off the ball of the importance of human potential and mindfulness? I am hopeful, right? When I reread this question, I think AI has the potential to allow us to maximize our potential more than ever before, but also maximize our mindfulness, right? On there, because it allows us to do things so much faster that maybe it gives us more time to have a meditative practice. Maybe it gives us more time to build community, right? Like that's how I want to look at it.

51:01Dr. Michael Gervais:I like it. Yeah, it's not more free time. It's time to invest in other ways.

51:05Jeff Byers:We can't make more time, right? But it's like, I think about the things that I do in my life. And I'm like, man, but like go back 30 years ago, right? And the things that people did just to live we're very different than we have now. AI can be a huge privilege and a multiplier for us as humans, right? My bigger concern is how do we think about jobs, employment? Because that is a real implication of like, are we just going to wipe out everybody's job that lives in accounting right now? No, I don't think it's going to happen yet.

51:36Dr. Michael Gervais:I don't see it. It's like, but the people need to know how to use this tool. It's not a replacement yet. You know, like, you know, but one thing I just want you, use the word privilege and I just want to be super thoughtful about that because it is a tool. There's a cost to this tool. There's a divide of people that can afford it, that cannot. And, you know, let's call it, I don't know, 30 years ago when we started to be a lot smarter about nutrition, there was health food and junk food, still is now. And there's a divide. There's like a socioeconomic strata divide between the wealthy could afford health food.

52:13Dr. Michael Gervais:They got to choose junk food, let's say. And so junk food, health food. Okay. Obviously we want health. Okay. But if you can't afford it or it's not available or it's hard to get to, it's problematic for the kind of health of that family. Now it's not junk food. Yes. There's an extension though, junk light and healthy light. Junk light is all the blue stuff. It's all the screen stuff. It's the indoor stuff. And I think there's going to be a divide that is going to be more noticeable that the rich, the wealthy are going to have more healthy light, more sunlight. They're going to be outside more.

52:51Dr. Michael Gervais:There's something about health light and junk light that I'm tuning to. And there's also the other divide, and I don't have a neat four by four, if you will, but there's another divide, which is access to this technology. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn. Earlier, I mentioned LinkedIn Hiring Pro. And I want to come back to something a little more personal. We talk a lot about the people who make extraordinary things possible. And I want to take a moment to acknowledge some of ours. Janelle, Taylor, Alex, Emma, and our newest teammate, Chelsea. Every single one of them came to us from LinkedIn.

53:26Dr. Michael Gervais:And every single one of them has raised the bar of how we operate here at Finding Mastery. Our relationship with LinkedIn, it also runs a lot deeper than just using their tools. We also work with their teams on the corporate side, helping them build the kind of high-performance culture where great people want to stay. They want to grow. I've been building businesses for over two decades now, and I'll tell you, the right team, that matters so much. It's the difference between grinding and flowing. So this partnership, I believe in from the inside out. When you hire through a platform like LinkedIn Hiring Pro that surfaces people who are genuinely aligned with what you're building, you get a different quality of candidate.

54:04Dr. Michael Gervais:not just in skills, but in fit and values, the kind of energy someone brings to a team. So if you're thinking about your next hire, I want to strongly encourage you to be intentional about where you look. The right person is out there and LinkedIn Hiring Pro helps you find them faster with a lot more confidence. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash mastery. Terms and conditions apply. Again, that's linkedin.com slash mastery. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Sunlighten. I'm really excited about a new partner of ours. Something that I've come back to again and again is when I invest in recovery with the same intention that I bring to my work, everything gets better.

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55:47Jeff Byers:All right, last question here. Lindsey, this is a good one. This is a really good one. And I'm interested to hear your answers. Who and what are your idols and inspirations and influences growing up? And how have those changed as an adult? That's cool.

56:02Dr. Michael Gervais:I didn't have idols. I didn't have heroes. I don't know uniquely exactly how that came to be, but I remember very clearly it was the fourth grade experience. I was playing soccer. It was a end of year banquet and it was all of the soccer kids in the area came. And Mark Mosley, I think was the name of the kicker for the Washington Redskins. It was a long time ago. Okay. This was like early eighties. And there was a big lineup afterwards. He had his his autograph. And my dad was like, Hey, let's get in line. I said, I have no interest. He goes, Mike, like this is one of the, you know, my dad loved the Redskins now called Washington commanders.

56:38Dr. Michael Gervais:And I'm zero interest. And I remember standing in line. I was like, what does he care so much about this other man? Like, yeah, good. He's good at what he does. And I remember a young age, like in an off access counterculture, nearly defiant way. Like that's not me. I'm not interested in that way. And I wasn't saying my dad was love slobbing in any way over this. But he thought it was cool for his kid to, you know, maybe get a gem of wisdom from somebody that's really skilled. And so I will tell you, growing up, my parents, I grew up in a Christian family where we were Catholic. And so I came to understand Jesus in a really cool way.

57:14Dr. Michael Gervais:And I was kind of spoon fed it growing up. And then I went to a Jesuit university. And so Jesuits are a particular, it was Loyola Marymount for undergrad, and they are intense. They are the academicians of the, you know, the Catholic faith. And point blank, they said to me, to the class, they're like, so what's this thing about eating fish on Fridays during Lent? What is that about? And so the studious would say, oh, it's this, or it's, you know, it's because of that tradition. And he goes, wait, hold on. Who do you think owned the wharf? Do you think it had anything to do with the bishop's uncle?

57:49Dr. Michael Gervais:What do you think? Who made that rule that on Friday you eat fish? Who benefited from that? So I started going, oh, well, hold on. There's a whole human structure to quote unquote religion. And what I had that, they really talked about that? Oh, dude. That is fascinating. Straight up every practice principle. They really made me examine, like, why has the church established this? Where does it come from? Is it right? I don't know. Like they're radicals. The Jesuits are radicals. They're very smart, very academic, very rebellious. And they've got a checkered history themselves. So there's a long way for me to get to, I think the most significant human that has walked our planet is Jesus.

58:31Dr. Michael Gervais:There's 100 ,000 books written in just the US language about his biography. That's a lot.

58:38Jeff Byers:Yeah.

58:39Dr. Michael Gervais:Okay. X number of billion people say, yeah, you got some stuff right. And I like learning about what you did. So I think that that is a muse that is worth investigating and understanding. Even if you don't say, I believe, but you say, I'm curious about what did this person represent and how did they design their life? To me, I am inspired by the people that have created real change. Buddha did some cool stuff. Confucius did some real stuff. You know, like I'm inspired by those folks and those are the ones I'm way more interested in understanding and thinking about how they designed their life, how they thought, how they chose their words, and how they behaved, and the communities that they shaped.

59:19Dr. Michael Gervais:Thoughts, words, and actions. Community. Those are the four variables. And so I'm still into those great kind of movers of culture. And how's it changed? It hasn't really changed. I just see it a little bit differently than I once did as a spoon-fed person. Now as somebody that has really scrubbed the thinking around the fallibility and the flaws in all of the systems, but I'm not caught by that. I'm inspired by it. So I hope that's not too heady or too serious. And, you know, I'm on my journey with it as well. Now, I think you probably had a different response than that. I think you probably had heroes and idols, but like, yeah, give it to me.

59:54Jeff Byers:That was an awesome response. I'd never thought about, right. Jesus that way. Right. Right. Of being like a hero or an idol or, or whatever, you know, of like, and, and listening you talk, right? Like I grew up in the Catholic church as well. I didn't expect it to go that way. And I love it when I don't expect things, right? And it drives my curiosity in here of like, man, thinking about how that and my faith have shaped me to think about community, which we talked about, to think about impact in the world, right? And to think about whether you believe or not the books about Jesus is he was the greatest leader of all time, probably.

1:00:33Dr. Michael Gervais:I mean, think about what the community he's created.

1:00:35Jeff Byers:And what he led and how, right? Like how it's written about him of like, he gave, he always did, right? He put others in front of him, right? Like that type of leadership.

1:00:45Dr. Michael Gervais:You know, one note on him, he was a radical.

1:00:48Jeff Byers:Yeah.

1:00:48Dr. Michael Gervais:He got killed because of his radical ideas, pushing against power. Yeah. He is off access counterculture. And that to me, I'm like, damn, be about it. And then his 12, the disciples, if you will, they were part protectors and they were, they were rebels. Yeah. They were like, they were, they were the oddballs. They were the misfits. And I'm like, man, he, his ideas were so honest and pure and connected that there was a real community, a real thing. I'm like, that's amazing. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, just when you think

1:01:15Jeff Byers:about it from a leader perspective, I like, you know, the influence that one man had.

1:01:20Dr. Michael Gervais:Well, how about Siddhartha? Siddhartha had it all. Buddha had it all. Okay. And he was living in the temple with a high, like he never saw dirt or not dirt, but the trash in the streets. And then one day, you know, he's like, wait, what is all of this kind of pain that I'm seeing? And then he radically goes on a self-discovery journey adventure. Come on, that off-axis, counterculture, revolutionary, be about something. And if you're not sure what it is, go invest in it. That honest commitment, the fundamental commitment. When people ask me like, what's the secret? There's no secrets, but what's the secret for high performance?

1:01:53Dr. Michael Gervais:It's a fundamental commitment.

1:01:55Jeff Byers:Yeah.

1:01:55Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. It's a fundamental commitment.

1:01:56Jeff Byers:All right. Sorry, we went down that. I definitely had sports heroes. Yes. Right? And I'll say that I try to live in the 90s, right? And I lived in the Midwest. There's nobody other than Michael Jordan, right? And he's the greatest of all time. Don't care what you say on there. And so I remember sitting in my parents' room keeping stats of Michael, like how many assists he had, like when I was 10 years old, like my boy's age, I remember sitting there. And what I drove from that was like, he was relentlessly great. And like, I, you know, really just love that, that effort that he always had. And that's something that resonated with me.

1:02:39Dr. Michael Gervais:As an adult, when you look at how his life is now and like knowing what you know now, do you have that same feeling about?

1:02:45Jeff Byers:Oh yeah. I mean, I would say like, um, how he practiced and all that. Like I thought a lot about that in my youth of like, how did I show up at practice? Did I work hard? Did I push others to be better? And all of that. When I look now, I'm like, yeah, I don't know if like how and why he was driven and the choices he made of what I do. He really shaped me as an athlete, right? And taught me like how to practice, how to show up and all those things. And then, you know, growing up, you know, I want to be like my dad. I want to be my dad. And I realized I don't want to be my dad, right? I love my dad and he's a great human, but that is not who I am.

1:03:16Jeff Byers:And there's a lot that I've learned from him as a whole. And so he was a huge role model and teacher, right? He taught me a lot of things I don't want to do. still does right and how i want to show up differently in the future and i think that's an incredible gift and he's an amazing human but there's a lot that i'm like i don't want to do

1:03:32Dr. Michael Gervais:that yeah that was good for him or that was the choice he made but um and right another huge

1:03:39Jeff Byers:influencer portion of my life is pete carroll i know and like we share and you're an adult i was a dog i mean 18 to 24 yeah i spent six years with pete i was a two-time captain spent a lot of time time seeing the inner workings of it. And I think I was really lucky in my last three years at USC, I was going through grad school. So I had a very different perspective. And that's when I was a captain. And I was really like, I was in, you know, like leadership courses in grad school and like really thinking about and watching Pete lead and his system and his approach to that. And also I really got to see, I look back and I see so much purpose in Pete.

1:04:17Jeff Byers:Like I remember Pete going out at night, going into Compton or South Central. And like, he realized he had a really unique platform as a head coach of USC to potentially change somebody's life. And that he had an obligation, if he could change somebody's life, to change it. Like, I'm going to go out at two in the morning, even though we have practice the next day, and maybe I can help, right, do a ride along with some LAPD and pull a kid off the street and make that kid's life better. And I saw him not just coaching humans. I saw him trying to make better humans and teaching people life skills through football, but beyond it to be better contributors to society, which I take a lot.

1:04:59Jeff Byers:So when I think like young kid was really Michael Jordan. And that was just because I love sports and basketball and all of that. My dad has had a huge influence in my life. And then Pete Carroll really helped shaped a lot of how I think about leadership and team. And now I'm really inspired by those that have a ton of privilege and give it all away. I'm really inspired by those who aren't afraid to check their privilege card and put it in line for somebody else who might not as a whole, because a true worth of a man is not what's in their wallet, right? It's impact they have and the happiness they spread.

1:05:37Jeff Byers:And I remind myself that a lot. And I'm of the most privileged class you ever could be. And I want to make sure that I'm able to be better and do better. And so the people that I see around me that are willing to give and give and give and not accumulate, accumulate, accumulate is something that I'm inspired by. And we all have different things to give. It could be wealth. It could be your skills and expertise. It could be your love, all those things. So that's where I'm really right now inspired by other people doing that.

1:06:04Dr. Michael Gervais:That was fun, man. Thank you for sharing that. And great reminder of your first principles and the foundations you're working from.

1:06:10Jeff Byers:Yeah. These are great. And I just, I love that you're doing these AMAs. Ask Mike anything is what I'm going to call him. Not ask me anything. I also just like applaud everybody who writes it. Yeah, me too. It's a, such an important step in who you are is to be able to articulate what things you aren't sure about and have fears or need to work on as a whole, like, I take that back from my sports world. If like, if you're like, oh, I'm good, nothing, you're never going to be, you're never going to get better. Right. And the first thing you need to be coachable is like the thing I love, like all these people are trying to be coachable and being coachable is so important.

1:06:46Dr. Michael Gervais:That's right. Yeah. We should thank them again. And I love our community. They're awesome. They hold a standard and they're great learners. And so Jeff, thank you. Thank you for sharing your time and your expertise. And thank you for sharing the partnership that we're able to have together Momentus and Finding Mastery, it matters to us. And so we're stoked to be able to kind of do our best to prop what you're building. Awesome. So we appreciate it. Yeah, this was fun. Thank you, Mike. Next time on Finding Mastery, Charles Duhigg is back. Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and bestselling author of The Power of Habit and Super Communicators.

1:07:23Dr. Michael Gervais:At a time when friends, families and entire countries are struggling to communicate, he breaks down why so many of us are talking past each other and how the real issue isn't what we're saying, but the type of exchange we think we're in. From navigating tough moments at home and work to recognizing when someone needs to be heard, helped, or simply understood, this episode offers a practical framework to connect more effectively. Join us Wednesday, May 13th at 9 a.m. Pacific only on Finding Mastery. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you.

1:08:02Dr. Michael Gervais:We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. punch over to finding mastery.com slash newsletter to sign up. The show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors. And we take our recommendations seriously. And the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product you hear on the show.

1:08:39Dr. Michael Gervais:If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode, you can find those deals at finding mastery.com slash sponsors. And remember, no one does it alone. The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those looking to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend, and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only.

1:09:15Dr. Michael Gervais:If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional. So seek assistance from your health care providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.