Ask Me Anything: Finding Purpose, Raising Resilient Kids & Navigating Workplace Politics | Vol. 27

25:55Dr. Michael Gervais:So when I throw a few in the bag before my trip, I've already made the decision. The hard moment later takes care of itself. And the team here at Finding Mastery, they love the bars as well. They are ripping through them in the Finding Mastery lab. Salted peanut butter and fudge brownie seem to be the fan favorites right now. They have built something with real rigor in a crowded, sometimes ambiguous space like nutrition. That matters when it's something that you reach for again and again. David bars are now available in major retailers like Walmart and Target. And if you'd like to buy them directly and get a special offer for being a Finding Mastery listener, head to davidprotein.com slash findingmastery, where right now, if you buy four packs, you'll get the fifth one for free.

26:32Dr. Michael Gervais:Again, that's davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. Appreciate the back and forth here. Okay, let's go to David though. This one's amazing. As a father of a seven-year-old, okay, so think about Grayson, seven years old. I would like to ask, how do I help my son develop a strong sense of self-efficacy that can withstand the hard blows of life? Cool question. so it's it's begging the philosophy that there's hardship and hard blows that come in life which first i do agree i think also yeah i mean life is this wild wild terrain um and there's some real tough things to navigate so getting ahead of it is cool um the the kind of the the big piece So let's define efficacy.

27:26Dr. Michael Gervais:It means that I feel powerful within myself. And it's not the type of power like I stand over you and dominate. It's not that. It's like it's more subtle and it's a knowing that I can figure things out, that I can influence how I show up in this world. And that influence has power. I think it's really important that we let our kids figure things out. So we had helicopter parenting, then it moved to Zamboni parenting, which is kind of smoothing the ice out in front of people. I think the divots in the ice is really important. And so mistake making, failure experiencing, hardships, adversity, if you can allow them appropriately to be experienced and not be overwhelming for the kid.

28:22Dr. Michael Gervais:And I'll tell you the experience I had with Grayson, but your job is to help them explore, make mistakes, get a little skid on the asphalt, like to go for it, to feel what it's like to sort it out because that is what gets called on later. I know that I can figure things out I know that I can do hard things because I've been afforded that as a parenting model my parents gave me they're they're laissez-faire in like they gave me lots of space that's basically what that means I'm not suggesting that's the ideal model according to research it's more authoritative versus laissez-faire or authoritarian so they hedged done that laissez-faire, which gave me the upside of it is that I had to sort things out.

29:15Dr. Michael Gervais:So I know I can figure things out. They gave me that and that has served me so well. So let them figure it out. Let them feel some struggle. Let them feel the suffering. Support them to experience the hardships and challenge them to be honest with navigating through it with your help. Early on with my son, I grew up surfing. I love surfing. I really wanted Grayson to go surfing with me. I took him out. It was too big. The waves are too big. I did that two or three times. I didn't get the lesson. And so he doesn't love surfing. So I kind of missed a moment with him. Thank goodness he loves skiing.

29:58Dr. Michael Gervais:I'm really happy about that. We get to do that together. But so I created too much adversity for his frame. It was too big. It was scary out there. And so that's what I'm saying appropriately matched. And if adversity does happen, your job is to get down to their level, see them create as much safety in them struggling as possible. Does that make sense? Right? Not kind of fixing the thing, but being at their level with them. And then the other thing I would say is like you want to point to the things that are in their control so you want to to celebrate like a wild person their effort their attitude um their when they're figuring things out when they don't know and how they stay in it like celebrate the parts that are 100 under their control because that gives them um the the framework to stand up with self-efficacy later that's all the framing of it like early in my life when my parents were like yeah nice job getting an as opposed to like nice job studying totally different and they did the effort bit way more than they did outcome in my life that's cool so i'm thankful for that and then if you can really understand them so what we do and you know this as well as anybody what we try to do in with athletes and executives and teammates my responsibility in in many parts is closing my eyes and imagining what's possible for you.

31:30Dr. Michael Gervais:And that is the greatest gift I think I can give you. So when I close my eyes and think about yogi, like what would be an amazing future for you? And then whatever I can see, I'd share it with you. And then you would say, no, no, no, it's not that. Like, oh man, I got to go back to the drawing board a little bit, but I'm trying to see a future for you. And then so I can help navigate and guide and support and challenge you along that way. so that part is really cool for kids is not in an overwhelmingly ambitious way but staying at horizon one two and three spend as much as your time on horizon one as you can with them setting that horizon three is magical and amazing we'll get there later but horizon one id visions of what amazing there looks like gives them something that they can get their arms around and and sense, if you will.

32:23Dr. Michael Gervais:So H1, H1, uh, horizon one kind of thinking with them is cool. And then the last thing, the fourth thing I'll say is, um, acknowledge all of their feeling, all of it. Just put a name to it. Looks like you're sad. Oh, wow. You're really pissed off. Okay. This is scary to you. And I sound like I'm being almost like, I don't know, a parrot to their emotion just acknowledge the emotion they're feeling because relationships are running the damn show and emotions are what are fueling the relationships the relationship you have with yourself and others and mother nature and experience it's emotions that are the thing that is right underneath the surface so help them be great with their emotions okay let's stay on this so there's a book that is just crushing it the anxious generation you know i'm talking yeah john hyde yep there's a world where parent the crux of the books take the social media away from it right but it's really like we have lost the as a parent giving ourselves the green light to be like hey son or daughter go walk to school come back when the streetlights pop on like and and i feel that as a parent in los angeles maybe there's other parents in metropolitan communities where you're like you read about everything all the time and there's like a van driving like whatever it might be that's a real thought and two things can be true your child our children need to explore they need to have that sense of self-discovery your point figuring outness like you did as a child in virginia in the in the backwoods there as you did man so what would you say to that because because i struggle with that i think even as a parent and i imagine others do where you don't want to snowplow you don't want to do all the things that you referenced and you know that there's like some danger lookering out there And, you know, they need to have these experiences to go find freedom and find themselves and figure it out.

34:16Dr. Michael Gervais:It's a good question. The idea that we feel like we're living in a more dangerous environment that we did 20 or 30 years ago is a real feeling. I feel that, too. So I recognize what John is talking about. Yeah, that it feels less safe to me now than it did then. I am going to support my son to take risks socially, emotionally, physically, in relatively safe environments. Action sports is a great way to do it. So when you don't have parents and adults that are coaching you, it's a great way because you got to figure out your relationship with swift consequences, mother nature. but outside of that in more sterile environments we are coaches and we need to stand up and make sure that we are not saving our kids from every little thing and it sounds easier said than done i'm not having grayson um you know kind of run the streets even though that that's what i did so it's a little bit different we live in a world where e-bikes are all over the place i think paramedics are just not picking up the bodies anymore these e-bikes that in the in the cities that we live in you know these 16 year old kids 14 year old kids that have helmets on that are ripping around it's wild how radically dangerous that is not every city across the planet has this e-bike phenomena but um oddly enough Grayson isn't interested in it so I'm kind of cool with that so that's fine uh one more follow-up on this you really uh nudged me in the concept of positive psychology.

35:58And my interpretation of doing it with our oldest son, Zane, and even our little guy, is I take them to a climbing wall. And it's this example where they climb, fall, climb, fall. And ideally, it's working on their self-talk, their self-efficacy, if you will, of, I got it. And then they get it. And they're just building that. I think I took that interpretation correctly from you. If so, can you expound on that of what a model in positive psychology could do for David and potentially his son and other kids?

36:30Dr. Michael Gervais:Well, what I hear you using, so positive psychology is like a, it's a sub-discipline in the science of psychology, which is the study of flourishing as opposed to the study of dysfunction. Sport and performance psychology is also the study of flourishing, but it's really about performing well and doing well in high speed or where you have to be accurate with your decisions and or your behaviors. And so there's a bridge between those two worlds, which is the study of excellence is really what sport and performance psychology is about. And then the study of flourishing and positive psychology. But that's not what you asked.

37:13Dr. Michael Gervais:What you framed it is that, okay, so if we're thinking about creating and pointing to aspirational goals of what could be and what's amazing for the kids that sports where they have to figure it out on their own, like climbing, they get some instruction. There's so much value in that. And I'll give you one small example that I think parenting we can model. It's called the discovery model of teaching and the formal instruction. So if you're going to teach your kid how to shoot a basketball, you could stand next to him and you could say, right, I want you to cock your elbow in, have about a 90-degree rest of the ball on your fingertips and snap your wrist and extend and point to one o 'clock and do that a thousand times, and you'll get better as a shooter.

37:58Dr. Michael Gervais:Formal instruction. Guided discovery is toss the ball to your kid and say, go ahead, put it in. Where? Up there in the bucket? Yeah, figure it out. And they miss and toss it again. Great. Toss it again. And when they do it well and it goes in, they're getting natural feedback. A better example is if you're teaching your kid how to do a forward roll, you can say, tuck your chin and put your head down and then put your hands here and then flip your feet over your head and roll down the hill. Okay. Or you can say, hey, let's roll down the hill together and let them go. So they discover what a side roll is, what a forward roll, what a back roll is, what a log roll is.

38:39Dr. Michael Gervais:And they might not get the forward tuck roll down. It might take them a long time to do it. But now they've got this wild range of figuring out their body in space. It takes longer to get good, but then you've got a big frame underneath of it. I am such a fan of guided discovery when it comes to learning as opposed to formal instruction. So your climbing metaphor is a little bit more about guided discovery than it is about formal instruction. Cool. All right. Let's move on to Jennifer. if acceptance and connection are fundamental human needs is it truly possible to detach ourselves from the fear of what others think without becoming emotionally unstable or indifferent yeah i mean it's a chapter what chapter yeah yeah i know that's a cool question it is i i i'm wondering who's the question Jennifer Jennifer i'm wondering Jennifer if you're asking that question because I did not answer this in the book properly, you know, or that it's, you know, maybe it's a new idea for you.

39:48Dr. Michael Gervais:So I do think it sounds cheeky, but I did take a good run at this in the book and the way I answered it, which was a little bit invisible. I wasn't concrete about this, but if you read it and you appreciate a first principle of interconnectedness, that all things and we are all connected like there's a unity that we're we're working from which is happens to be a first principle in zen buddhism is um that it's embedded in there so we are connected and the idea of trying to separate ourselves from another person feels like there's a little bit of um a contorting to that first principle that i do want to hear the question one more time but my first response is like wait hold on we're fully connected in this thing a healthy separation if there's such a thing is more of an appreciation for your experience and another person's experience and your experience is uniquely yours and theirs is uniquely theirs and when you engage in any activity that to make sure that you are not over-indexing or tuning to what they are determining is success or failure or acceptable or unacceptable or truth or or not so it's again i'm going to use this idea of being a tuning fork for your experience in life rather than outsourcing it to other people yeah it's interesting acceptance and connection you would agree fundamental needs yeah right is it possible to detach ourselves from the fear of what others think without becoming emotionally unstable or indifferent?

41:36Dr. Michael Gervais:Without becoming indifferent, yeah. Yeah, when you have love in your heart and you embrace the interconnectivity of all things on the planet, it's not an indifference. It's a rich and deep appreciation for it. Maybe it feels like there's a disconnect happening to, you know, there's two words in psychology for parenting, individuation and separation. And that's kind of what kids are supposed to do. They're supposed to separate and individuate. And the more that a parent or parenting system hovers or has too many rigid structures, rules in place, it's like the leash is really tight. The tighter it feels, the bigger snap that they need to get away.

42:28Dr. Michael Gervais:So they end up like breaking big rules to feel a sense of individuation and separation. So depending, so when I hear that question, I'm wondering how constrained maybe you might've felt at one point in your life that you feel that you really need to, you know, have that, that disconnect to get to a healthy place. Um, so there's a lot, there's a lot that I've said in here and I'm not sure that my answer is completely satisfying. No, I think the first thing, if I'm hearing you right, for Jennifer to do or anybody who can relate to this question is to explore a little bit around what happened with you and other people's opinions and why you believe that you need to either be accepted or connected if you disagree with what that individual said.

43:18Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And when you can see that you are individual, you're an individual, you are separate, but we are all tied together. So this is the equal opposites confusing piece of the yin and yang here is that they can have their experience. They have their experience. You have your experience. Your job is to bring your very best into it and not be overburdened by what other people think. And look, it is foundational to our brains wiring to want to be connected to other people. That is safety. Belonging is not a nice to have. It's a requirement for safety. And so that feeling like I just want to make sure I'm good in your eyes, it's universal.

44:03unless you're a psychopath, a narcissist, or you have a true disorder that you cannot understand

44:14Dr. Michael Gervais:what another person's experience is. Either you don't care, you're wired that way, whatever. That's like 2 % of the population. So most of us have that wiring. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. There's a principle that the team at Momentus uses that has stuck with me. The relentless pursuit of better. Creatine is a good window into what they mean by it. Creatine is one of the most studied supplements in the world. The benefits are reasonably well-established. Strength, power, recovery, and increasingly what it does for the brain. It's been found to support brain energy metabolism and easing mental fatigue.

44:47Dr. Michael Gervais:So this is something a lot of people do take every day. And when you take something on a regular basis, what's in it, what's not, and how consistently it's made all start to add up. That's the part that Momentus obsessed over. Rather than settle for what's on the market, they searched the planet for the highest quality creatine source. Then they built their own specification around it. They call it the signature spec. It's made in a pharmaceutical facility, 10 times fewer impurities, six stages of testing across four independent agencies, NSF certified for sport, and it's micronized so finely it actually mixes clean.

45:21Dr. Michael Gervais:No grit. Go to livemomentus.com slash finding mastery and use the code FINDINGMASTERY for up to 35 % off your first order. That's livemomentous.com slash FINDINGMASTERY, the code FINDINGMASTERY. When you commit to something daily, the quality really matters. Okay, Alexis, how important is it to identify the source of a problem you have versus building the capacity to move through it? Let me give you an example. I'll repeat the question first. How important is it to identify the source of a problem you have versus building the capacity to move through it? For example, if an athlete or professional gets overwhelmed before their big moment, should they try to dive into their past and start unpacking why that is occurring?

46:09Or just start working on what's happening in their mind and body, start the breath work, whatever other exercises are needed to relax, focus, and move through it?

46:17Dr. Michael Gervais:It's a good question. Time and place. You know, there's a time and place to do self-discovery work, to go back, to unpack it. I have a real appreciation for that work. It's, I mean, it is radical to do that work with another person because you get seen and understood in a different way. There's a rich healing that takes place in that work. You can also do that work with yourself through a self-discovery kind of solo process, which helps you get to the truth so that you understand really what, where you're working from, as opposed to some other kind of more surfacy or transient, um, psychological experience.

46:55Dr. Michael Gervais:So it's good. It's really good, but there's a, it's a time and place. I'm much more interested in, um, okay. So you're having this experience instead of like, tell me about your uncle when you were whatever, or your first coach when you were whatever, instead of that, I would go into like all right so how do you want to how do you want to adjust with that that's great that is it that is a true experience that's coming up great feels like that's a little too noisy for you it's it's not working for you in a mirror okay we can go back at some point but right now how do you want to use that and what does great feel like for you and so then get them to call forward when they're at their best when they're at their worst what's the difference between the two and what is the pre-performance routine what are the practices um and what are the the deeper capabilities that are required to be that way that ideal way more often so that's that's kind of a deconstruction of how i hear the question this is this is a cool one man so here's here's a follow-up for me and i'm a football guy as you know football season starts training camp let's say in the nfl mid to late July, colleges, early August.

48:05If I've got something I need to navigate through, do I have to navigate that before the season? Or can I like work through that in real time once you kick the party off and you're on this regimented schedule?

48:16Dr. Michael Gervais:Do both. It's a little harder. You know, flying the plane and building the plane at the same time is a tougher challenge. And so when an athlete is injured or an athlete has an off season, I see it as this really great opportunity to go more horizontal and pick something to go deep with. So let's say that for the injury, let's say it's an ankle or knee or something. Instead of like, oh man, like I've got this knee injury. The ones that are pretty exceptional, they're like, yeah, okay, I'm going to work through this. I'm going to do my rehab. Rehab is not my favorite thing. But, you know, I've always wanted to read these books.

48:53Dr. Michael Gervais:I've always wanted to do this visual eye training. hey doc can i get with some of the mental imagery stuff that we've been talking about now's a great time so they find opportunities to keep investing and if one of those ways to keep investing is to sorting out the things that you know the cobwebs and the dark corners and the scary monsters under the bed and the dragons whatever like guess what you here's the thing whether and let me finish the thought pre-season i'm much more of a fan of like when you've got the timing in the window to be able to do the self-discovery work that's not encumbered by real-time performance standards, like take advantage of that.

49:34Dr. Michael Gervais:And it is a constant work in progress. You don't really ever escape the self-discovery process once you've drank from that cup. Like you never, never really leaves. Okay. And here's the big takeaway for me is that when you do this deep internal work, It is so powerful because nobody can ever take it away from you. So you end up experiencing your past in a different way, your future in a different way, and your present moment in a different way because you're seeing and holding what actually took place and the healing required from it or the aspirational way to move forward. Once you do the internal work, and there's no roadmap for this.

50:13Dr. Michael Gervais:It's not like I have the roadmap for self-discovery or you do or somebody does. There are a set of practices that many of us will say the same things, but going inward to do that deep internal work, and if you can do it with someone that's skilled, you'll accelerate the growth arc. And so I would point to do it with somebody that's highly skilled. And for me, that means somebody that's been trained in it. Okay, let's keep it moving. Andy, every time I achieve something that I've been working on achieving, I have a moment of satisfaction. Sometimes that lasts an hour, sometimes it lasts a day, but rarely longer than that.

50:56And then I move back into the state where I'm not satisfied again. Like something is missing, even though the thing I achieved satisfied this completely. The feeling of dissatisfaction continues usually and can move into other forms where it gets worse, where my inner voice is saying things to me like, you're not enough, you're not worthy, you were just lucky before and your luck won't continue, etc. And it can get much worse, you know, much harsher than that. It's like this hungry ghost that makes me feel generally unsettled, uncomfortable, and wanting more how do you deal with this i'm sure plenty of olympians and high performers feel this your suggestions what are they and what have you seen work one is i'm

51:46Dr. Michael Gervais:encouraged that andy knows what a hungry ghost is and so that's actually what i was going to go to i was going to point to the hungry ghost as an analogy and so okay so andy you're you're there And that idea that there's this unsatisfied meal, there's this empty meal that, you know, there's a hungry ghost that never gets fed, if you will. And that's really kind of the downside of the self-critique nature and like it's not good enough. There's not an easy answer here to point to like a solution. but I would remind us that when we are more connected to something bigger than us, it gives us something to be enveloped with.

52:31Dr. Michael Gervais:And so for some people, it's a spiritual framework. For other people, it's the bold thing that they want to do in their life, like why they're here. Or in your example, Yogi, to be a great parent and husband. And it's not about achieving then. It's about being part of something bigger. and then you have a role to play in that. And your job is to be a great custodian or a teammate or a leader in whatever fashion. So I don't know. I recognize it for me. It's less now than it's ever been. And so I'm not riding the highs and lows of achievement like I once did when I was in my early 20s. And so it's more about like, do you think we made a difference today?

53:18Dr. Michael Gervais:and that is not a self-serving mechanism it's me trying to pull my weight and my wife and i when we you know we did a bunch of counseling work together on a relationship and our therapist said something brilliant she said okay look relationships are a little bit like carrying water so mike you've got two drugs lisa you've got two drugs and drugs are heavy like relationships are not this easy thing. So you got to carry these jugs. And Mike, if Lisa puts a jug down because she's tired, she's overwhelmed, she's had it with you, will you pick one of those jugs up? Yeah. She was right. And if she put the second one down, would you pick one?

53:57Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah, no problem. I got it. That's a great teammate. But over time, if I'm carrying the wall, I'm going to break down. I'm going to get tired. And we need to know how to share and swap back and forth. In my relationship, I think Lisa carries the jugs more than I do, just to be clear. That being said, is when you're a great teammate and you're part of something and you're doing the work for something greater than you, you end up doing things that are not serving just the sense of accomplishment or the notch on the belt. And so that's how I hear the question. I just want to point to be more connected to your purpose.

54:36Dr. Michael Gervais:Go to something that's far bigger than you. And I think it dilutes some of these concerns. So, you know, your book is amazing. Thank you. It won a bunch of awards. You've won a bunch of awards. You've got accolades all the time. How do you process through them now? Even if it's, hey, you just finished your new course, it's available, findingmastery.com. Or you wrote another book and people gave you a bunch of pats on the back on it. What's your way? when early early um early in my life i was looking outside of myself to see if it was if i was okay if it was okay and when i was writing the book um each story each insight each chapter was built from a working laboratory with my partner my writing partner and I, Kevin Lake.

55:29Dr. Michael Gervais:So each time that we were trying to articulate something, we ran it through our Tumblr first. How does it show up for us? How does it show up for us at Finding Mastery? How does it show up for us with our family? And so that mechanism was really important to not be clouded with like, man, I hope that this thing really sells a lot. I did. I wanted it to move because I wanted to share what was meaningful and valuable to me in the writing process. And that writing process rested on us being subject number one in this experiment on how to be free of FOPO. And that rested on 25 plus years of working with the world's best to understand that so many of them were gripped by expectations from other people and the approval from other people as opposed to what they really wanted.

56:23Dr. Michael Gervais:What they said they wanted and what they really wanted was this freedom to contribute, to explore their potential and to be part of something special. So for me, what I do now is I have to treat it like noise. And so signal to noise ratio is a very important principle to me. I have to treat praise and critique like noise. I've got an inner circle of people so i live in the city of redondo and it's a redondo means round and so this round table of people that i go to when when i need um to sort some stuff out and so it's that round table of people i trust and it's not even i don't even have to call those people with the exact question but i can call up what they stand for and what they would say to me yeah what i'm also hearing and signaling noise is sometimes and andy may be navigating this like can you do you label sometimes what you say to yourself as noise i wonder that because that's what it feels like his it's his inner voice he keeps referencing you're not worthy you're not good enough you just got lucky and it's like no dude stop i didn't like is that what you're that part of the below the line self-talk where you're chipping away and chipping away it will get you to drive a little bit harder work a little bit faster like read a little bit more study a little bit more invest it but it wears thin quickly and so i just have such a low tolerance for that and it it just doesn't work so all of that stuff where you are and we know this from research when part of where you attribute the success and or failures.

58:11Dr. Michael Gervais:There's this really wild self-esteem saving mechanism. According to research is like, let's say a baseball hitter and they, they're on a really bad streak. Okay. So it's not working out well. And that that person goes, this bat, I'm telling you, this bat is great. This bat is the worst bat that this bad is. And they're blaming something outside of themselves because it can't be themselves and it's a self-esteem saving mechanism it might just free up enough to say give me that new bet and then maybe for whatever reasons that helps me focus better and i i start getting on a run but it's not the long-term bet that you want to go on okay but it's a self-esteem saving mechanism the other mechanism is when you attribute when you do get something that's gone well that you say you know what um i really poured into it and you're pointing to the things that are in your control and you're also pointing to teammates that helped you get there so if you can and those are kind of the first ring of the pebble in the pond if you can be clear about what those first rings as you drop a pebble in the pond those impacts it's it's i think it's way more powerful that's great okay last question yes time for one more rajat he says i've been reflecting on your book okay first rule mastery Particularly the idea that we can overcome FOPO, as you coined, fear of other people's opinions.

59:30Fear of people's opinions. Excuse me, fear of people's opinions. You're right. By living according to our values, changing our beliefs, and learning from others' perspectives. However, you also state that no one, not even world-class athletes, are completely immune to FOPO. This seems like a contradiction to him. If even the best athletes still experience FOPO, does that mean we can never fully be free from it? Is the goal to eliminate FOPO entirely? Or is it more about learning to manage and cope with it effectively? Since acceptance and connection are natural human needs, does this mean that no matter how much mental training I do, I will always experience some level of concern about others' opinions?

1:00:14He gives an example. Cristiano Ronaldo is playing in a stadium where 50 ,000 people are booing him and criticizing him. How is he still able to perform at the highest level? If he, like all humans, has a need for connection and acceptance, how does he mentally handle that type of external pressure? And if no one is immune to faux-paux, how is it possible for an athlete to stay composed and deliver in the most high-pressure situations? It's a lot. Okay, I'm going to do my best to ask it in one question, okay? Yeah, good, yeah. Again, we're talking about FOPO, fear of people's opinions, okay? You said in your book, no one, not even world-class athletes, are completely immune to FOPO.

1:00:58Accurate? Yes. Okay, so if the best athletes can still experience FOPO, Dr. Gervais, does that mean that we can never truly be free from it? Cool question.

1:01:11Dr. Michael Gervais:I don't I want to make sure we're clear that fear of people's opinions is an excessive worry about what they might think of me caring about people's opinions is different we do we do need people to care but we don't want an excessive worry and so it's not about eradicating FOPO in a way that you are no longer connected to other people that's not what the kind of the ambition here is but this excessive worry is the thing is the mechanism that keeps us from showing up and maybe being our very best because that we've got this other track that's running in the in the background how will how will this go oh i don't know well all of the narrative around it it's this shadow game that's being played that is below the surface that it's like it chews away at the ram you know in a hard drive it's like this energy suck from us doing what ronaldo in this example does exceptionally well is that he is able to focus deeply on the task at hand and when he can focus with all of his might on the unfolding present moment, whatever that task is, and he's not even guiding his mind at the highest level, he's just completely absorbed and he is responding eloquently to whatever is happening, that he's in the highest performative state, the highest creative state that we know for humans.

1:02:48Dr. Michael Gervais:Just underneath of that, when he is focusing with all of his might and he's working with his mind, if he's working with his mind to be task-focused, That means quickly he's recognizing if his mind is tuned to like, man, don't look stupid. Don't blow. Wait, hold on. Come on back. Pick up the laces. You know, get my footing right. Trust myself. Let's go. Let it rip. Self-talk from a motivational, self-talk from a skill standpoint. It's like the way that you're working with your own mind is paramount to find the freedom that we're looking for. In this particular case, the freedom from worrying about other people's opinions, which happens to be one of the great fears for us, that requires an awareness of what's the narration or the narrative of your mind and how you're working with it.

1:03:38Dr. Michael Gervais:I'm not interested in freedom completely from it. Again, narcissists, sociopaths, those folks are free from it. And that's not aspiration what we're trying to do. it's being able to downgrade it just a little bit i think is where i would want to start and you we only can focus on one novel thing at a time okay so it doesn't mean you can't focus on a couple things kind of well at the same time but one novel thing at a time is what our attention is designed to do and so if we if our attention is on the success of worry it's not on the task at hand and the present moment task at hand type of focus is the unlock to flow state to the zone to high performance so i i think that i think i answered that first part of the question i don't know if you want to take any further i like that the it's the excessive worry and i think that's a noteworthy element to the question and to to life in general right yeah don't be excessive necessarily in anything.

1:04:40It's just abundance of joy, I would imagine. This has been a blast, man. Not too excessive for me. I love hearing your opinions. I know many of the people ask questions as well.

1:04:50Dr. Michael Gervais:Yogi, again, it's like a treat to sit down with you. One, I didn't realize how good you are at asking questions. You brought me right into them. So thank you for that. But before we wrap, is there anything that was said or unsaid here that you would want to bring forward, even if it's not really about one of the questions or something that we didn't say in one of the questions that you wanted to bring forward? I think one of the questions resonated with me a lot because you hear from athletes where you accomplish something and then you kind of beat yourself up a little bit. I've seen this in my career so many times and I have struggled other than really Tom Brady.

1:05:29He's the one athlete that I can point to who in his eyes, he built this chip so large that he went out and became the greatest of all time. I think most people, and you know me well enough because we say it to elite 11 quarterbacks every summer, when they'll put on their social media like, proving the haters wrong. Or when I ask you, what's your purpose here? What's your why here? What are you trying to, why are you enjoying the craft? I want to prove everybody wrong, man. And I just simply respond, and you've done it too, where it's, just go prove yourself right. And once an athlete and a quarterback or an elite performer accepts that sentence, they just drop their shoulders differently.

1:06:03So I'd say that to like, when you're talking into yourself of, God, I just got lucky, or man, you're not that good. According to who? You accomplish the task. And I'd love to see other high achievers, whether that's in sales, in business, in education, of course, in sport, when you achieve something, it's not like beat myself up and go right back to work. It's celebrate it. As you always say, connect to the moment, navigate it, stare at it, honor it. Cool. Let's go do it again. Or let's do something in the next moment that shows up. So I just haven't seen anybody, Mike, really thrive consistently who's constantly building a chip.

1:06:46Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah, that chip on the shoulder works for a while, but then it gets pretty heavy, even if it feels like a small chip. It just gets pretty heavy. So I agree with you. I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, I 1 ,000 % agree. And I think that early in my life, I did have a chip. And I'm glad I don't have it now. I do like being competitive, not trying to be better than you, but trying to be better than I was yesterday. And that gives me a drive, a bit of a prickly edge to it because I know there's more for me to go, more for me to give and to step into. So I need to have, for me personally, I'm not a reclining dragon.

1:07:26Dr. Michael Gervais:I need to have some fire breathing on my front foot, if you will, just a little bit. So yeah, the chip no longer works for me. I'm glad you're bringing that up. Cool, man. Thank you. This has been a blast. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me into the space. Yes. Love what you're all doing at Finding Mastery. Go check it out, findingmastery.com. Thanks for coming to this AMA. It has been a blast. Keep the questions coming. It looks like I'm coming back again. and do it one more time. Yes, let's do it some more. Next time on Finding Mastery, we're joined by Sorin Gordhammer, founder of Wisdom 2.0, for a grounded conversation on presence, identity, and the inner skills needed to navigate a noisy world.

1:08:07This one is a brilliant meeting of minds as Mike and Sorin take a thoughtful look at how to stay connected to what matters without getting lost in the pace of modern life. It's a quieter conversation, but one that really stays with you. Join us on Wednesday, July 9th for this awesome conversation.

1:08:27All right.

1:08:28Dr. Michael Gervais:Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up.

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1:09:40Dr. Michael Gervais:Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional. So seek assistance from your health care providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring. Come on.