From Chernobyl to World Champion | Oksana Masters

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27:13Dr. Michael Gervais:Says it. They're waking up more rested than they have in years. Right now, go to lisa.com for 25 % off select mattresses. Plus, you get an extra$50 off when you use the promo code mastery. That's exclusive for our listeners. That's Lisa, L E E S a.com promo code mastery for the 25 % off select mattresses plus the extra$50 off when you use the code mastery. You have a unique experience that you have are figuring out how to integrate that into, you know, your power. Yeah. And I think that's the whole point of this book. that's exactly how to say like like i want people to when they read it not to learn about my story and my experiences but how can they make their hard parts their shitty experiences or their bad days into their power and fuel to like not just be something bad that happened like oh yeah this is a really sad memory but you know what like you started this conversation at the beginning of there's always that big contrast and there's we can take from both have you ever read or do you are you aware of banksy's insight the you know the contemporary artist banksy no about dying twice i clearly live under a rock well you're training a lot so it's understood um they say you die twice when you stop breathing and then the second one a bit later when somebody mentions your name for the last time pretty cool so laney's still living how about it yeah okay how do you use and integrate your experiences that this is like what i really want to understand because there was an insight that you had which was somebody asked you if you could go back and kind of change you know your seven year old's experiences and you're really bold do you remember what you said in that interview I would tell her I wouldn't change a thing to just keep fighting.

29:09Except stop climbing books, the bookshelves that I always got ripped from and just in trouble all the time because I clearly didn't learn from getting in trouble all the time and getting punished and I still went and did it anyways. So I tell myself that too.

29:23Dr. Michael Gervais:What do you tell yourself? I would tell myself like to stop doing that if I could go back in time too. Just like not just, yeah, keep fighting, but also let's not put ourselves in like more trouble than we already get. Do you take risks? Is that what that's about? Like, are you an adventurer or risk taker? Like, help me understand that part of you a little bit. I am in a weird way. Like I'm not, there's a reason why I love cross country skiing and not downhill skiing. Cause I like to work against gravity. It's safer in that aspect. So risk wise like that. No, I do not. But I am a very adventurous person and want to try and will do something at least once.

30:07And I've always been very, um, I think I've always walked that line of like right on that edge of a fear and exhilarating kind of thing okay so you like that you you like

30:22Dr. Michael Gervais:that feeling yeah and then yeah when i can know that i am control of it when i'm control like in like controlling every aspect of it kind of thing so this is another insight before we get to the alignment piece you had another insight which is like for so much of me and so much of my early life, my story was written for me. I have your, right. And then you say, but that's different on the start line. On the start line, the story isn't written. Nothing's decided yet. Nothing is decided yet. And so much of your life was, as you put it, like decided for you. So what were the things that were decided for you?

31:00Dr. Michael Gervais:What are you capturing in that insight? When my story was written for me, I'm referring to scars that I came with that I remember and I know how I got and some I don't remember. And they were already written for me, that part of me on my body that I had no control over. What does that mean? What are those scars that you're referring to? Like on my legs and my hands and stuff. And I have this one on my stomach and that I remember very vividly getting one night and it's just like, I didn't have a control in that. I didn't have, I didn't like the scars now, like I'm recovering from an injury on my hand and I have the scar and I have these scars on my elbow from Pyeongchang when I was racing and messed my elbow up.

31:46These scars I was going to control off because it's from an injury. I know where they came from. The scars that are resulted of abuse and punishments or like the ones I have a lot of like IV cut down scars where it was just reuse, reuse. I was the smallest and the youngest. So I was the last one to get all the needles. And so they just got infected to cut everything out. So there's some medical scars too. And that's all that I had no control over. And I didn't, like, I just, that was written for me. And in addition to that, mentally, when I came to America and started processing and understand, not even understanding, but when all the memories I thought I was suppressing and hid and told my mom nothing ever happened, it was that like invisible scar tissue inside that was also something that was written for me.

32:41And I had to relearn how to rewire my brain and my process when I look in the mirror, in addition to going through amputations two separate times in my life. And both times, someone's telling me, why would you do that? You can't do anything if you cut your legs off. And my legs are above the knee, which makes a very, very big difference if you're below the knee amputee to above the knee amputee because you're missing two joints, ankle and a knee. And society determines people with disabilities that I'm invisible. I'm not worthy of setting goals, let alone achieving those goals or love or being seen.

33:19And my biggest pet peeve is determining what I'm capable of achieving and doing based on what their limited view is. And so in that aspect, my story's been written for me as a girl with a disability, as an orphan, as an abused orphan, as a female in sports and being a smaller statue built and stuff. And I wanted to rewrite my own story.

33:43Dr. Michael Gervais:Thank you for the insights there. and more importantly thank you for getting so close to your experiences that i feel like i can feel it too um you're forcing just by the way you're choosing your words for me to be in touch with times that i felt like i wasn't seen and uh my essence didn't matter as much as their experience and i think a lot of people can understand what that means so you take it a step further you say I was invisible. Can you open that up a little bit, like what that's like? And I think there's probably two parts. You can talk about the trauma part, of course, but there's also the everyday thing is like, I've learned from some Paralympic athletes I've spent time with is that people don't want to look.

34:34Dr. Michael Gervais:And because if they look, they don't want to make you feel different or weird. I've got the opposite problem. People stare like there's no tomorrow. Like their eyes are about to, my pet peeve is if you're going to look, look. And then it's a question. It's when people go and they're like this and their eyes are following. It's like they're about to fall out of their heads. They're going so far. And then they're trying not to look. It's more obvious than if you just look and turn. And it's fine to look, but it's like, I'm walking through airports or anywhere in the grocery store. or, you know, it's like, what's really hard is I have my prosthetics.

35:11I'm okay with those. My hands is what drives me insane. People don't know what to do. Cause sometimes when I pay for something with a card or cash and they go and they're like, and they jump. And then like that, because it's so different, they didn't expect my hand to look the way it does like a little tiny T-Rex claw coming at them. And maybe I need to paint my nails.

35:28Dr. Michael Gervais:Wait, what did you call it? My little T-Rex claw. I have little short hands anyways. Like my hands are, I'm a short person. and so I try to make it up with my legs and be tall to hide for that but my hands are like I've had a lot a lot of surgery reconstruction surgery on my hands to the point like doctors don't understand how I'm using my hands because scientifically within my anatomy it makes no sense I shouldn't be able to but I found a way like we all find ways and so you had you were born to five fingers yeah five fingers no thumb but it was like um they were all webbed and so when i was in ukraine i had seven surgeries to help a little bit i was born fun fact six toes which is not due to radiation that apparently something like you get passed down from your parents so i can't wait to one day meet my birth family and be like did you have six toes and by why did you give me these eyebrows that like stop growing halfway and i have to fill in the rest there's a lot so so there's a lot there so so on the six toes is it like literally like it's an extra toe or is it yeah so it's not like coming from the same but oh so yeah and but your fingers had like two nail beds in each finger yeah did i read that correctly yeah they were all like everything doubles but what i don't have is so like i have this one this one but then i don't have that extra joint that you do here.

36:53It's just one, two.

36:55Dr. Michael Gervais:That's right. Yep. Okay. Yeah, cool. And then they took my fifth finger, like moved it from here to here. So I don't have - To where your thumb normally be. Yeah. So like, I don't have this muscle here because it's not a thumb, which is half of your hand. What's the best type of interaction when somebody notices your hand or they're looking like, and like, what's the best kind of, and what's the worst kind of reaction that, or inner interaction that. The worst is like when you like do a double take as if someone just poured hot water on them or cold water on them. It's like, okay, cool. Get, get cultured experience.

37:32Get out a little bit. I know I live in. Is that what you say? Yeah. Sometimes when they're rude or I'm just like, God, stare much. I'm that person. Sometimes like I am, I'm passive aggressive. And my fiance is like, no, Oksana, you are just aggressive, aggressive. Sometimes there's no passive aggressiveness.

37:50Dr. Michael Gervais:And I'm like, oh, when they need it, when they need that aggressive, aggressive, I like to call people out because then they brings attention to like, oh, and maybe that will help them. And the next time they see someone that they're like not used to seeing or whatever, but it's those people that come when I say, thank you for your service. And I'm like, what? So they automatically assume and associate someone with amputees or something like that is automatically because of military and that's what it was and i don't know if it's because it helps them process of how and what could have happened to someone's legs and why they are the way they are please don't do that i mean i know i'm a badass and i look tough but i'm no don't just assume and say thank you because on the other side of that is i say oh i'm not in the service like oh oh okay and then just walk away so it's like okay well may I ask what happened?

38:43That's like, you could just do it that way. If you weren't in the military, I just assumed, because you look like a badass, that you could just say that. I'm like, it's okay to ask. You don't have to just stare. And because you're uncomfortable, like, it's the only way is I have my legs. I was hiding my legs. I had the foam and the nylons to try and hide it. And I realized I was bringing the wrong attention and the negative stares. And people were just, they couldn't figure out like, well, what's wrong with me? Why do I walk? Like I got something up my back or something. And that's because they couldn't see what I was working with.

39:22And so I decided to, the sports helped me find the strength of accepting who I am and seeing it, my growing partner who looks so cool with his legs. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this so they can see the components of it.

39:34Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah, it's cool. I actually really appreciate that piece. It's like, I love that like insight, which is like kind of bring whatever it is to the forefront, bring it to the light. Cause you know, as you've, as you've also articulated, we all have dark tunnels and your mom helped you find, you know, the light through that tunnel is one of your insights. And so like, just kind of bringing things into the light for me, at least when I bring something to the light, then it's like, oh, well, it's so exhausting trying to carry this thing around when I bring it to the forefront, to the light. And other people are like, oh, is that why you're all stressed out?

40:08Dr. Michael Gervais:Oh, okay. Now I understand. Cool. Yeah. I get stressed out too. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah. 100%. Finding Master is brought to you by Magic Mind. Something that I come back to often is the power of principled mornings. The performers who sustained excellence over decades, not just for a season, they almost all have one. A set of behaviors that they do not negotiate away because they understand that how you enter the day shapes how you move through it. For a long time, my mornings have been disciplined, but a little incomplete. I do all the practices for stillness and movement, but when I sat down for the first real hours of cognitive work, there was a ceiling that I kept noticing.

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42:25Dr. Michael Gervais:Spring and summer, they are powerful seasons of momentum. It's a great natural time to step into growth, to refocus, to recommit to who you want to become. And this discount will not be around for long. So go to findingmastery.com slash course code renew 100 for a hundred dollars off today because your future is not shaped by what you intend it's shaped by what you train i think this is a segue about your tattoo your rose tattoo which one okay your rose tattoo i think there's a segue here can you talk about one of your the way that you have conceptualized that a rose is just a rose and your rose tattoo So I am a Aretha Franklin fan, and there was a song that just hit my heart and I identified so much with it.

43:14A specific lyric, which is, a rose is still and always will be a rose. Doesn't matter what form it's in. And so that, well, she said that my metaphor and taken in the way I interpret it was, yeah, you're right. It doesn't matter a rose, whether it's a dead rose, a thriving, beautiful colored rose or halfway dying rose, it's will always be a rose still. And that kind of helped me. So I got this tattoo specifically placed over a scar that I had. And the way I received that scar was super traumatic in that literally, Mike, this was a scar that happened so recently when my mom adopted me, I was still picking out the stitches up until a few months after I was in America.

43:58And then all of a sudden I'm like, I got it finally. And she'll my mom. And that's how recent that situation happened from when she adopted me. And it was only going to get worse if she didn't get me then. And it's a rose that is thriving on one side and it's transforming into a dying black and white rose and kind of frailing away. And it says a rose is still and always will be a rose on the words on the sides of it. And that was for me to remember when I look at that, not to see the scar, but to see that no matter what was taken away from you, that you're still, you're still worth it. You're still deserve love and you still are a person and you still can love yourself.

44:40Dr. Michael Gervais:What do you do to love yourself? Like, how do you practice that? I sweat it out. Not going to lie. I just sweat workout. I just, I just have to go and throw some weights and release that energy and stuff. And, um, I recently I'm really getting into like my me time, which is like my 3000 steps skincare routine. And it's not just because like of doing that. It's like the process I'm in the, it's kind of going back to counting. And when I'm doing each, each process of it is kind of just like not focusing on anything else just focusing on what i'm putting on and just that process like 10 minutes and all that kind of stuff and and then the other side is so that girly girl side and then the just work out to be honest i've got a lot of anger i was an angry racer and i was just a very angry kid i think people will learn why.

45:33And I didn't know why I was angry. And it wasn't directed to one specific thing of anger. It was just anger. I don't know if you've seen, oh gosh, Inside Out, that animated show about the emotions.

45:47Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah, it's really clever. My favorite one guy was the angry father side. Yeah. I was like, yes, I get him because it's so raw. It's so emotional and so real. And I was just that angry kid and I got to release that in sports. You would use, you would come from that place. You could express that, the intensity of anger in working out. And so that's one of the ways it probably. Because I got the release. Yeah. It was a let go. So there's also this interesting little meditative process that you had like this full presence with, with the anger and intensity and the physical movement and all the attention required that there is a release valve in there for you.

46:28Dr. Michael Gervais:I'm not suggesting that that is healthy or that that is like a way to heal, but you're using it, right? Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because like you're saying you're not suggesting it's a heal. I've had some injuries and you know, it's really scary and I'm going to have to find ways to heal. And this is the real honest truth because my coping in my therapy for a lot of stuff right now is sports and training and just that's my escape and when i'm injured what's going to happen when that goes away exactly that's right yeah so and that's so you're aware of it yeah i think well you're going to need another tool right yeah well it's coffee i love coffee and i have a espresso machine and i'm just gonna have to steam milk 24 7.

47:15Dr. Michael Gervais:okay so you've been through highs and lows as all of us have i think um yours are really unique and your lows are pretty damn low and your highs are pretty damn high you know like pretty lucky i don't know what it's like to stay and on a podium you know a global podium like you have and so and i also don't know the lows that you've i don't i haven't lived in your body so my point is though how do you think about mindset? How do you think about the way that you approach an event or events in your life? I don't know. This is honestly something that is kind of like a new territory for me. And I'm still learning to navigate it and still trying to find the, how do I approach it in that way?

47:59And the mindset of it, it's going to sound so weird, but like, I'm so thankful for what I experienced and what I went through. And my mindset, instead of being so angry like I was at that time, because what I lived and what I experienced and when I, now, these are tools I have because I walk that path. I now know when nothing's gonna get as bad as that, first of all. And now what I'm doing here, I'm in complete control and can have the option to choose how I wanna approach this. And there's sometimes where it's good

48:37Dr. Michael Gervais:that type of um taking responsibility i think is probably right at the center and that unless you have advice i don't know i have no idea no that sounds yeah no no no i yeah i would not dare to give you advice but i think that that um that sounds like okay that's probably a pretty powerful place to come from like i'm gonna i'm in control of how i'm gonna use my emotions. I'm in control of how I'm going to show up. And so it feels like that would be a really powerful orientation to come from. And then you've also got like this other really powerful, I think there's a dovetail here, is that it's a quote in your book.

49:19Dr. Michael Gervais:I feel like the theme that people focus on in the story of a Paralympian is the hardship and not the athleticism. That's the most frustrating thing on earth. It's like orphan girl, no legs skier. That's always first. It pisses me off to the core because excuse me, I'm not an orphan anymore. I have an amazing family. Stop using that as a line. And my legs are what created the opportunity for me to be an athlete. I'm not missing legs. I guarantee you 99 % of Paralympians are not viewing themselves in that way that the media is portraying them. We've turned into inspiration porn in some ways. If people could see the behind the scenes conversation that we have, they would better understand.

50:00Dr. Michael Gervais:So like pretty rad insight. So like when I say that to you, what do you mean? Like when you think of an athlete like Serena Williams or Michael Jordan, first thing that pops into 90 % of people's minds is what they've achieved and the greatest of all time. But when you think of a Paralympian and you think about, oh, well, what happened to your body? Where did you come from? And it's beyond frustrating to be constantly seen, not by what you're doing, what your actions are, what you have done with your life, despite of where you come from, the path you've walked. And there's still the past people want to focus on that.

50:45And there's this discrepancy on the way we view professional athletes, businessmen, businesswomen. I mean, it's not just in athletes. It happens everywhere. and people kind of pity in some ways and have this like very different approach and just want to change the tone and the conversation and the dialogue of Paralympic athletes. The sweat equity is exactly the same as professional athletes, as Olympic athletes in just not just athletes, like I said, but like also in business world. Like you go and get a degree, college degree, you worked your steps up and you're a business owner or a CEO, whatever it is.

51:31Where you come from, it's important. It's shaped you. But it's not your identity of who you are. It's exactly what you're doing from this in the moment, in your actions.

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53:44Dr. Michael Gervais:Again, head to findingmastery.com slash morning to get your morning mindset routine. So earlier you said like, I'm a badass. And I agree. To me, you're a badass because of your psychology. And yeah, the way that you have applied yourself in the physical world is like the expression of your mind. And so it's like you've used your body, just like any athlete uses their body as an extension of how they use their mind. And so that's what I'm impressed by. So I want to make sure that I heard how you think about that and then also say, I know that that's where we started this conversation, but for me, it's about your psychology.

54:32Dr. Michael Gervais:It's about how you work with your past trauma and how you approach this present moment, whatever this moment is, and how you think about your future. And that's the psychology of you I'm trying to understand better because your insights are remarkable. And what you've done as a demonstration of them is evident. I think that's where I'm very lucky because I've had people ask like, where does this all insight come? Where do you like, but I think it's the first seven and a half years of my life. I didn't have a voice. I was just an observer of my environment and of how people like good and bad people acted and all different types of, I saw a lot of different experiences and I internalized and just think that and then lived in philosophically and very metaphor ways.

55:17Well, no childhood, you would not want your child.

55:20Dr. Michael Gervais:There's no child that we would ever like. No, you want them to share their voice to make them. Jesus, like what you live though is like, I mean, it's childhood hell. I don't know another way of thinking about it. But there were some really good times too. Like I've had really incredible memories too. And it's funny how those are, even though there weren't that many memories of those incredible, amazing times, they're stronger than the 3 billion times more bad that I experienced, if that makes sense at all. What an incredible survival strategy that is, or like a natural strategy is to hold on to those wonderful moments.

56:03Dr. Michael Gervais:And it doesn't mitigate the others, but it's like, it's almost like this counterbalance that you figured out is like, no, I need to also hold on to these and savor these wonderful moments and make sure that they're close to the surface as part of like survival. And I also hear you use the word lucky a bunch. Oh, yeah. Oh, God, yeah. Like that should have been the title of the book is pretty damn lucky. Is that like a, is that a grounded philosophy for you that I feel pretty damn lucky in life? I mean, I'm pretty lucky. I don't know what else you explained besides just luck. The chance that my mom saw a picture of me and she tried to get me when I was five is when she learned about me.

56:49Ukraine closed adoptions and put a moratorium on all foreign adoptions and there's a ban. And the US did the same thing. I don't know any other word except luck because during those two years, everyone was telling her to just, You can go to Russia. You can get a baby. You wanted a baby. You can have a kid in like a month. You don't know when this is going to happen. You don't know when, if she'll still be alive and all this stuff. And she waited for me. That's luck in that moment. Because I didn't control that.

57:18Dr. Michael Gervais:I get confused by luck. And I get confused because I don't know what to think about luck, really. So I'm learning from you here because I just don't know what to think about it. Because people say I've been lucky or like that you've been lucky or whatever. And I go, I don't know. because there's, I could, I could follow it the other way and say, bad luck where you were born, you know, and the conditions there at the orphanage or good luck that you had a mom, good luck that you're born with, um, you know, the, some sort of, uh, ability to be super resourceful, like whatever genetic coding that might have.

57:59Dr. Michael Gervais:So good luck, bad luck. I don't know, But I hear you saying, no, I'm lucky. And I go, oh, that's you also paying attention or attending to the favorable parts of your life and amplifying those. And so then I see that working. And then are you familiar with the Zen farmer story, the parable? No, because I still live under a rock. Okay. So once upon a time, as most Zen parables might start, there's an old farmer who was working his crops for many years, and then his horse ran away. And upon hearing that news, his neighbors all came to visit, and they said, oh, such bad luck. And they said sympathetically to him, you must be really upset.

58:46Dr. Michael Gervais:And the farmer says, we'll see. Good luck, bad luck, who knows? And then the next day, the horse returns, bringing with it other wild horses. And then the neighbors come and they're like, oh my God, how wonderful. Like your horse returned and you received two more. Like, this is amazing. And he says, we'll see. Good luck, bad luck, who knows? And then the next day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses. And then he was thrown off and he broke a leg. And the neighbors came back and said, oh my gosh, so sorry to hear about your son. And that he can't help you with farming. And this is terrible.

59:20Dr. Michael Gervais:And then what bad luck. And then the farmer says, we'll see. Good luck, bad luck, who knows? And then the last day of this parable, the military officials come through the village and they're taking all the young men who are able-bodied to be able to work in the military. And they pass him over because his legs were broken. And then all the neighbors come running back and say, oh my gosh, congratulations. You know, your son, he's not going to war and this is like great news. You must be so happy. And the man, the farmer says, you know, we'll see. Good luck, bad luck. Who knows? And so that Zen parable like sticks with me.

59:56Dr. Michael Gervais:Like, I don't know. You think it's a mindset? Because he didn't choose. He didn't like write the negative and bad, like bad luck yet. He just, it's kind of, yeah. So maybe that's what it is. Like, like we said, there's like power in word. If you like put these words out there from your mouth to guess bad luck, you're going to see all the bad in it only. So how do you do that? how do you speak to yourself, like your self-talk? Because there's words that we put out and then there's words that we use in. And so how do you use your internal narrative to be a badass? Well, to be honest, my internal narrative is pretty hard on myself.

1:00:36It's not -

1:00:36Dr. Michael Gervais:Okay, so high self-critique? Yeah, like when I - Or self-doubt? Both. Let's break it apart. You say, I've got lots of self-doubt. I've got lots of self-critical. Like it's not wonderful to be in my head sometimes. It's not probably all the time because. No, not all the time. There's just, it's like an event or like. So it's prior to an event. Prior to an event. And then some of my teammates just get really frustrated with me sometimes because even if I won, all I can focus on is that thing that went wrong. And I'm mad about that. That's the only thing I can't let go. Okay. So that got you good.

1:01:16Dr. Michael Gervais:let's be clear that's not good enough i can do that better what come on xana let's go get your together right like that type of thing got you good whether it's in the weight room on the track holding a gun whatever it might be like that got you good and then it sounds like that has facilitated intense preparation but but debilitates the ability to have freedom and peace so there's a there's this you've gotten you are literally the most decorated Paralympic athlete in the Winter Games and so and you've won more medals than any other uh Olympian in the Winter Games I think that that's a fair data point right I'm sorry Apollo oh no

1:02:06Dr. Michael Gervais:what's up Apollo he's a friend and so that's awesome yeah and so all right so here you You are. And you're saying, yeah, what got me here is I kick my own ass a lot and I don't wish this on anybody. What's the next level for you? Like, would you, would you train your daughter? Would you train her in this approach? No. You would not. Like I would have her be proud of herself and let herself celebrate the good and the win or the really good moments. and we talk about the good moments first, I feel like, for her. Where for me, what I need to do more and better of is focus on the good things on that race and wow.

1:02:52And then like, okay, but I really didn't like this. Instead of flip it and focus on the bad and the first thought is bad.

1:03:00Dr. Michael Gervais:So that's what you're working on. Yeah. Okay. But then it's weird because I think this is where by the environment that I grew up in and my neurological system, the way it's wired, is so used to being told negative, bad things. And what I'm used to is proving myself wrong, proving them wrong, fighting for the food, fighting to survive. So it became this weird push pull comfort level of self doubt in a way when i doubt myself i'm not doubting myself it's like even though i'm talking to myself i'm not perceiving it as it's my voice oksana what are you talking like oh my god like you're not ready for this at all you haven't done you didn't make every single day count look how strong they look and i'm focusing on all those other opponents strengths and giving them the benefit of the doubt well they had a bad race I just got lucky.

1:04:00And it's this internal dialogue that I process it all while I'm in the sport itself. And then outside, I'm learning how to process it as a holistic approach of me and myself, Oksana as a whole, not just in the race. That makes sense.

1:04:16Dr. Michael Gervais:You're hitting it. You just opened up the narrative for, I don't know, 90 % of people, which is downgrading one's own history and body of work attributing um and i'm going to go i'm going to be antagonistic to you a little bit attributing a little bit of luck to your success and skill to them so the reason they're so good is because they they are badasses and you know i just kind of got lucky i because you know that maybe you got a little quicker start than you normally would have or whatever happened like you squinted at one of the targets and it went in you know you're not supposed to squint but you got that happens too lucky shot of course it does yeah but it's because of the follow-through you have to have good like body first but there's some good lucky hits yeah so so but that that equation of downgrading your body of work and upgrading the skill of the other people is a disaster right it's it's like the substrate of anxiety it's the substrate of of self-doubt and then if you add a little self-criticalness on it it becomes pretty toxic and i i want to make sure i heard you correctly like you speak to yourself in a way that you would never let somebody else speak to you that way.

1:05:25Dr. Michael Gervais:Did you say that? Or did I just kind of make that up in my head? I would never say that to a friend, like, or like, I would never let a friend be spoken to or thought of that way. But yeah, that's, that's really interesting, isn't it? Because you take care of other people, right? The way Lainey took care of you, probably the way your mom helped support you, right? So you know that well. But I think most people would recognize that too, is like, they would never, they speak to themselves in a way that they would never speak that way to another person. Like if I say to myself, come on, Gervais, get your shit together.

1:05:55Dr. Michael Gervais:What is wrong with you? By the way, I'm done saying that to myself. Like I've reached a certain point in my love of myself that I was like, yeah, I got to be done with that, that type of thinking. And so I would not let somebody else talk to me that way. And I would never coach somebody that way. So that's when I knew it was really twisted. And how are you going to let go of that? Like, how do you imagine it well hold on do you want to let go of that i think i heard you say that you do but i don't want to presume well i do because well like so it's weird because i only do that in the sporting environment i don't do that outside of a sport outside of a start line and racing and before not a start line but the pre-start line area and the night before and i guess yeah so i'm only doing it in that moment when i'm expected of something i guess and you know it's interesting because and i'm trying to find the words because like in my mind i'm like this is i don't know how to put like a word to a feeling because it's not necessarily one of that it's a feeling that's very similar to my house in ukraine and your back is against the wall.

1:07:05And it's a very familiar feeling for me. It's impossible to just, okay, well, work through it, throw that out because it's really toxic. I think I have found a way for me that how to just harness it to that line of where it's good, but I don't live in what the words I'm speaking to myself and I don't actually take that to heart outside of that race and view myself that way in the mirror at all. And I don't know, maybe this is what I need to do to be for next season when I am working on my comeback with this injury is get rid of that because we had a sports psychologist that he, and I think part of it is because to be honest, it's because my processing and healing still is in that moment of sport.

1:08:00And so it's processing the memories, working through them, through that emotion of when your back's against the wall and you have to like fight. I don't know. It's like, it's just a weird twist, a little ball that is, I have found how to shape this ball to be a positive ball, hopefully.

1:08:15Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. And I'll just use the ball bouncing metaphor. Like there's an important question, like the ball that I'm bouncing now, do I want to keep bouncing this ball? Or is there a different one I want to pick up because I know this one. I know where the flat spots are. I know where the bounce is kind of weird. Like, but is there another, it's a weird metaphor that we're trying to make come alive here a little bit, but like, I like the vine metaphor a little bit. Like I know how to swing on this vine, but the longer I swing on the vine, the more momentum I lose. And at some point I've got to take that vulnerable step to go to a new vine.

1:08:48Dr. Michael Gervais:And I'm not suggesting this is the one for you. But I think most of us can recognize that we don't want to speak to ourselves. We don't want to beat ourselves up. We don't want to do that because it just kind of leaves a death by a thousand cuts. What I was going to say is like in the book, I talk about our sports psychologist I worked with for the biathlon side, when I realized the transition of not racing so angry and the sustainability of it. He had me put my hands out and he said, think of something that makes you angry that you feel like is your power and your secret power and making you strong when you race.

1:09:25And he put pushing on my hands and had me resist against it. And I could resist, but not for a very long time. And then he's like, think of something that makes you happy. And so for me, instantly I thought of my mom and Lainey, because that was just these explosively strong, powerful things. And it was at first he pushed down, but I was able to resist against him and was sustaining that resistance from him. And that's where that moment when I felt that physical, oh shit, I feel it. I see what you're saying. That's I think is what for me, because I'm a physical person, I have to experience it and feel it to get to like find that new ball kind of thing.

1:10:05And I think it is with this and it's just learning how to think.

1:10:08Dr. Michael Gervais:Okay, awesome. Last thoughts. What do you want to say to your mom? Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I don't, honestly, I have no idea because literally there is not one single word that exists in any dictionary in this world, in any language that describes who she is and could ever describe the emotions and what she means to me, who she is, because they don't exist yet in this language, but I'd say thank you for picking me out of all the people for not giving up on me, for saving me. And I'm sorry for the gray hair that you got before we left Ukraine that month. And just, she's the reason why she saved my life.

1:10:58She literally saved my life. And then she saved my life again by introducing the world of sports for me and realizing this is going to be her outlet to release this when she doesn't know how to articulate things until she finds it.

1:11:13Dr. Michael Gervais:I want to encourage people to read the book, your book, The Hard Parts. One of the things I'm going to ask is to, for an introduction to your mom, your mom is epic. And the way that she kind of put it all out there and fought for you and like, didn't know what she was doing in it, but trusted. That's the crazy thing. She never made a conscious decision once. She's the kind of person that she also fought her own battles as a female at that time, getting a PhD and going through that and just in the very male dominated world and then adopting a single parent when she's being constantly challenged.

1:11:49like, is something wrong with you? What's wrong with your mind? Why are you not married? Why you can't do this? She had to put a man down on the adoption papers because you had to have a father. And she was like, now she's like, I don't know why I didn't put like Bruce Willis or I don't know, some like big person down or something. But yeah, like she's incredible. And everything I am is by watching her fight and not give up for me.

1:12:20Dr. Michael Gervais:What do you hope for? All I want is I want to be that person behind the scenes where no one knows who or what or why. This one part of this world is better. And this, oh my gosh, this sport is incredible. Or I just want to leave my imprint. I don't want to leave a record because that is going to get diminished at some point. I just want to leave an imprint of a better world. And it's better because I had one little ounce of grain of sand to put into that giant pot that we all contribute to. But I don't want to be known for that. Yes. I don't know. More of that, please, in the world. Okay. It all comes down to?

1:13:02It all comes down to belief.

1:13:04Dr. Michael Gervais:If you knew what I knew, you would? Never give up. You are awesome. I believe everything that you've said, you know. So there's still some unlocks that you're working through, which is like, I think the unlock from badass to something. I wonder what that is. It's like, you don't let go of being a badass, but like, what's that next version? Yeah. What's that next iteration of you? And it's probably going to be returning back to that feeling of being at home everywhere you go. You know, that sense of wholeness. Yeah. Everything that I felt when I saw my mom for the first time in Ukraine was home.

1:13:42Oh my God.

1:13:43Dr. Michael Gervais:I think that what you just did is that feeling is probably the most power, one of the most powerful. Anger is powerful. So I don't want to diminish it, but it's just like when you play with fire, you get burned. And it's not sustainable and it's draining. And, and, and, and. But that feeling is like benevolent and life-giving and amazing and far deeper. And so I wonder how you'll play with that insight. Let's catch up again. Okay. Like I'm in your corner. I love what you're doing. I want people to buy your book, be part of your community. I feel fortunate to spend this time. I'm stoked that you're doing work on the inner game, you know, the sports psych.

1:14:22Dr. Michael Gervais:That's awesome. I wish everybody that same commitment in their own life. And then I just want to, again, I want to say thank you. Oh my gosh. Thank you so, so much. I, I feel like I could talk to you for like three hours. Thank you so much for letting me black blonde. Yeah. And then I want to make sure I get connected to your mom as well. Absolutely. Although she's the kind of person that literally, I guess the best way to describe her is she's like, you'll know her whole life story, the checkout line. And I'm like, mom, they don't need to know where you went to school and just like what you did and what you ate last night.

1:14:55But to sum up my mom, she is one of those people that she'll give you the shirt off her back. And if it's that color you hate, she will find you that favorite color shirt after she took hers off. Like she's just that person.

1:15:10Dr. Michael Gervais:That's really cool. All right. So where do you want to hope people go to like to support you and be part of your community? Is it social? Is it a website? Obviously it's the book. Social media at Oksana Masters, kind of everywhere or yeah, learn about. You can learn a little bit about me, but I really hope that you feel empowered when you read my story to find your own superpower within the hard parts you have and tackle the world. All right, let's go do it. I appreciate you, Oksana. Thank you so much again. Okay, cheers. Next time on Finding Mastery, Tim Ferriss joins Dr. Gervais for a refreshingly honest conversation about navigating self-doubt, ambition, and the art of letting go and why play might be the antidote to modern overwhelm.

1:15:59Dr. Michael Gervais:Join us on Wednesday, August 27th at 9 a.m. Pacific. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday.

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1:17:11Dr. Michael Gervais:So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend, and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional. So seek assistance from your health care providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.