One Yard from Everything: Flow, Pressure, and the Play that Changed Football

19:55I need to explain it and I didn't understand why but it didn't matter. It didn't matter if I understood it. All I needed to know was it affects him. Something is affecting him. So what's the difference if it's someone on the phone or if it's he went home and someone from his family wanted too much? He was a rookie so that had to be either 12. And you guys had him for how many years? I had Chan And, man, whole rookie deal. So maybe 14, 15. Okay, so I want to say that. I mean, obviously the Super Bowl, 14, 15. And I want to say that because Chandler Jones, one of the best defensive ends that we saw in this era, in that era, and then also was up for a major contract.

20:38You guys chose not to resign him. He goes to the Las Vegas Raiders, signed a huge deal there. But then also over the last couple years, he's been struggling mentally. Right? And so we can't diagnose what's going on, but it's been tough these last couple years for the Jones family around his brother. It's so important. It's powerful for you to say, like, I saw something there emotionally. Yeah, and with a guy that you care so much about. That's right. Like Chandler Jones, I love Chandler Jones. I'd do anything for Chandler Jones. And he is, you know, look, we're very close, right? We're in the locker room with each other all the time.

21:17We learn about each other. We're a family. He's the youngest brother of three. It's a very competitive family. Arthur, John, like that is an unbelievable family. And Chandler's one of those guys that just always has this unbelievable personality, life. Like you walk in the room, you can't help but smile when Chandler's around. That's right. Huge smile, huge personality. And that's, you know, that's his joy. So you see when he wasn't like that. And that was very eye-opening to me to see that. So the reason why this is important for me because, you know, I play and now I'm running a company. And so I'm on both sides of it.

21:53And if you don't know where your your players are, your teammates are right. Like it affects performance. It affects how we show up as athletes. It affects how we show up as husbands. It affects how we show up as fathers and mothers and daughters. It affects us. So we have to understand the signs and symptoms of our players and all these things. right so it's a thin line between impairment and performance yeah yeah beautifully said yeah yeah it's it's and you know what's really important too to your point we got to just keep checking in on everybody like just keep checking in on everybody even though it may have been how do you do that text messages calls you know guy pops in my head i'm gonna just text him is it as simple

22:34Dr. Michael Gervais:as how you're doing yeah hey thinking about you you good yeah and that may be it and then you know just maybe yeah good coach like no problem yeah and you just you know that's that's really important Okay, back to the drama That's my nightmare Going back to this So that side I'm watching that side, the play is about to happen Lynch hops over They motion over, they build the bunch The ball is snapped Marshawn shoots to the flat We make a peel call To Chandler, I don't see Chandler peel right away Hightower gets picked I'm like, oh my god, they picked him And then on the headsets, everyone's like no they he picked it i'm like who picked what like i didn't even see the play yeah because i'm watching i'm watching the other side of it that's so i didn't even look and everyone's like he picked it and i'm like who picked so what happened was browner sees malcolm come out yep and browner goes he looks at malcolm he goes i'm gonna choke i'm gonna choke the s out of him you just go And so you watch the play, Browner's like, boom.

23:39He's so long.

23:40Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. And Malcolm just, boom, hits it. That was coming. Knew it was coming. Preparation. Preparation. We had run that play like six times in practice. Now, the funny thing is, a bunch of different guys saw it because I wasn't sure how they were going to do it, but we had run it a bunch of different times. That is brilliant. But Browner, he knew. Wow. And he reminded him. You know, that's all you need, a little reminder. That is great partnership, great team-mating. And there's so much here. I know, Mike, we can go so many places, but really quickly, I need you to respond to this, right? Because your greatest moment in one of the Patriots greatest moments was one of Seattle Seahawks.

24:14Yeah. Biggest failures. Yeah. You know, from sports, from a worldly perspective. Yeah. How did y 'all deal with that?

24:22Dr. Michael Gervais:So I've been in sport my whole life as well. And it's been picked. And I look down, I look down at Coach Carroll and he was watching. he was on like you know that coach dance where you're kind of on a standing but and holding your knees a little bit like that and like you know like there's an intensity and i look over hit him he's about eight people away from me and his head drops one mississippi two mississippi three mississippi and i see his head come back up and i go oh he just processed the whole thing I was like wow so I was like holy moly so that to me was a pivotal moment and then we go into the locker room I've never felt the intensity of emotion in a locker room that I felt in that locker room there was 6-6 crying, there was 6-4 ready to rip somebody's head off there was 6-3 that was kind of laughing.

25:24Dr. Michael Gervais:There was, I'm just doing body height. Um, there's, uh, one of the owners that was in full tears, like, Oh my God, I can't believe it. Like there was all of the emotion except for joy. There was nobody with joy. So all of the most difficult emotions, loss, grief, bitterness, anger, frustration, intolerance, all of it was present with the most alpha competitive humans on the planet. So we won one in dramatic and lost one in dramatic fashion. I am so thankful. Now, this might sound like I'm glazing over something. I'm really grateful that I got to experience both. Yeah. And to understand what needs to take place to lead to a place to be free, to win or lose.

26:11Dr. Michael Gervais:yeah we played freely yeah but we did not prepare our men to lose we prepared them to win yeah and we didn't know how to lose and so it took i think three years oh yeah for a healing process to take place sure and i think our best team was actually the next year i think we're really good in 15 skill wise yeah but but there was still that yeah that grieving process the anger the resentment the confusion. It was a trauma. And I say that word with all respect for what big trauma is. But this was so triggering and traumatic for some that it took us about three years as a team to heal. That's right.

26:52Dr. Michael Gervais:And so I am grateful for both. I mean, I've won three and I've lost three. So you know, and I'm big time, you know, and I know. Would you trade it for winning six? Oh, yeah. You always want to win six. Yeah. But so here's why, because if I had won after 07, I probably would be like, what do you do after that, right? 19-0. I think you just get a big belt. Right, right, right. And you walk around and you're done. You're done. Because you're done. I'm done. But I'm really grateful I got both. Yeah. Like, I feel like I'd be muted if I only got one. Only the loss or only the win. That's strong. I don't know if I have that strength yet.

27:23Yeah, good. I'm going to try to get that strength. Okay, good. Here's what I'll tell you. Yeah. So the 07 one, you know, you get to the Super Bowl, you get all this cool stuff. This was your first Super Bowl. No, 04 was my Super Bowl. Okay, this was your second. We go back 07. This is the undefeated year. I mean, honestly, and I've watched a lot of football. It's the best football team I've ever seen. We had this amazing, amazing team. Now, the Giants were the best team at the end of the year, no doubt. We always say from Thanksgiving on, whoever the best team is is going to win, and New York was that.

27:56But at the midpoint of that season, the things that our team was doing, it was crazy. It was ridiculous. It was really literally like a video game.

28:03Dr. Michael Gervais:Group flow is the technical term. when everyone's highly skilled and they're operating almost like a swarm of birds or you know how birds will just kind of transform and move together everybody's in sync flow yeah and when you can get the high skill with group flow it's like it's a different level we changed our mindset that game that that year and that's i think why we you know there's a couple factors why we lost but you know to your point it took me shoot it might have taken me eight years before i went and finally opened up the bin that had all of my memorabilia from that season from 07 yeah like i just found a jersey from 07 that my linebacker group gave me you know we call ourselves the backer hood and it's you know super bowl jersey it's got 07 on it and it's signed so like junior signed it teddy signed like all my old heads it's signed but that had been in my garage in a box because that pain of losing that game was real yes then we go to 11 is there still healing for that for you you know what i think i'm okay my my biggest thing with that game that i hate about that game is i wanted to win that super bowl for junior seau so bad he is he was one of the best people best players best everything i've ever been around i've spent so much time with junior one-on-one just you know he was out there by himself i was young and in that loss after that game like his and again we're at the post game party and his smile he's he is like like he buddy buddy right so he is lit up did you get and it was like uh yes in passing it is for the audience out there that may not know the junior seo's story uh a hall of famer yeah one of the best to ever do it not as a player but as a human being but he also um i would say he's a victim of suicide that's right yeah he made the final choice there was some struggle with us there was some struggle so yeah sorry let's get back to that but i just wanted to make sure you know Everybody is watching.

29:57They understand why this is so impactful to you. Yeah, two losses for you. So, yeah, May 2nd, junior. And there's a group we always kind of text each other, you know, check in. On May 2nd. On May 2nd, too. But that was the 07. 11 Super Bowl, we lose to the Giants again. And I remember that one, I was like, I'm going to stay out here, and I want to feel all this pain. Yeah. And, you know, we had lost in dramatic fashion again. Yeah. And I stood out there, and the confetti came down, and Alicia Keys sang New York. And, you know, I remember the moment I sat there, and I'm like, I will do anything.

30:36We've got to get back. We've got to get back. We've got to win. Like, I need these guys to feel what it's like to win. Like, we had won in 04, and we had lost twice. And I was like, we've got to. These young guys. Vince needs to go win again. These young guys we're bringing in. We've got to go win. And it just, that was a trigger for me to, like, you know, the intensity went up. My intensity went way up. You know, probably a lot of guys were, you know, it was like, man, coaches, angry. I'm like, not angry, but this is a special group when we can do something special. Yeah. And we pushed from, you know, 12, we went back.

31:07You know, we went to like eight straight AFC championship games, right? So 12, we push back, we lose. 13, we lose the AFC championship game. 14, we go and we win. And I remember Jamie Collins on the plane on the way home. He was a young player. Hightower was a young player. And I was, you know, we're all excited. I'm checking on everybody, and he's like, he just looks at me, he's like, I got you, coach. Like, it clicked. Why the intensity, you know, was so important, the focus had to be so high to actually win that last game. We won again in 16, we lose in 17, you know, and that was the one that I probably, I was really upset about.

31:45That one really bothered me because I knew I was leaving. You know, I was going to be going to Detroit. To become a head coach. And I was, you know, and that's where I didn't do a good enough job of going to Detroit and transitioning. You know, like I should have left all that needed to stay in New England. And I carried that intensity into a building that wasn't. And you know what? I never realized it. I didn't realize it until I watched the Jordan documentary, right? The nine episodes. Yeah. And he says it. And it was like three o 'clock in the morning. I'm like, you know, summertime. So I got to watch all my movies in like four days because that's the only time I'm home.

32:19So I'm grinding. I'm watching this. and he said about losing and his intensity to go back and win and how he told everyone and just set the tone for that. And I was like, I didn't. And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like, I didn't leave that. It was mismatched. It was. It was. It was so wrong. I was so wrong in doing that and bringing that into a building and bringing that to players in a building that didn't understand why I was, because all I wanted to do was go back and win. I just wanted to go back and win. Tell us why. Give us the why behind it, though. Why did I want to win or why?

32:54No, like why was that a mistake? Because it wasn't fair to those guys. They were, look, they were going through a transition of a new coach, a new system, a new everything. And, you know, I got to go in there and, like, I got to just learn the guys. You know, I got to spend time and try to get them to understand me. So what I hear is my neuroticism, your neuroticism from losing.

33:19Dr. Michael Gervais:and the baggage you had around that, you carried that in a debilitating way to culture and relationships. To start, yeah. To start, right? So good. And it hit, but it didn't hit me soon enough until, you know, later. Right. And then I was like, damn, you know, you can't. I didn't quite feel the foundation the way that I needed to. And prioritize what I should have prioritized, which was the players. Yeah. Do you understand the beauty in this, though? Tell me. There's a lot of people out there in sport and business that need to hear this story. Because there's, in sport, right, the next coaches or players going into a new environment.

33:59You guys created that culture, that type of mindset, right? Think about Jamie Collins in that situation. It took him a couple years to understand it, right? So for you to transition to a new moment, that's the culture you're trying to get there. But now you can teach the process to creating that culture. and then also in business right like Jim Collins all these phenomenal business imprints talks about good to great how the mighty fall built to last all those things one of the things that he teaches in these books is when a a new executive come in and lead the company how to transition how to get the right people on the bus who to take off the bus put in different seats so even men and women built in companies need to hear this story so it's there's you you still like you're different You're a different type of high performer because it's just like win, win, win.

34:48But I think that, like, there's guys like me that appreciate some of the losing because of the lessons that you learned and built you up, but then also to teach. And so, man, that's a beautiful story for me. Listen, coming from you, that means everything to me. You know, because all I really care about, the players are what's important to me, right? And I've developed a lot of coaches too, you know, Pat Graham, Brian Flores, Josh Boyer. Like, those were all my QC, Brendan Daly. Like, you know, Ben Johnson I hired at Detroit. Like, those are my guys that I've hired and I saw something in. So I love developing coaches.

35:22But to me, you know, it's about the players. And you mentioned a word earlier that I definitely did not have my first year, and that was the joy. Joy. And can you imagine being, like, my 12-year-old self should be kicking the shit out of myself. You know what I mean? Because I was the head coach. Like, me? coming from a small town in New York where I didn't play major college football. I didn't have all that. I was smart. I knew the game. I was taught really well. I can teach the game. I know how to do all that. But to walk in there as a head coach and not, like, have joy because I was mad that Ertz got a touchdown pass and, you know, in a blitz cut.

36:01Like, you don't forget those calls. And it took me that whole season to kind of then stop and, like, I got to reset. And you know how that is. It's really hard after a year, you know, to try to reset all that stuff. But that's growth mindset, right? And we got to go in and we got to try to continue a growth mindset. Do you want another chance? I'm very competitive. So, you know, I think I would love to. You know, look, I think Pete Carroll.

36:22Dr. Michael Gervais:At a head coach show? Is that what you're talking about? Well, listen, Pete Carroll, you know, he was at New England. Yes. Got fired. Yes. Bill was at Cleveland. He got fired. Now, I'm not saying I'm Pete Carroll or Bill Belichick, but there's a lot of great coaches that, unfortunately, I joined a fraternity with that all have been fired in the NFL and some others have had, you know, second chances and done well because there is no book for it. There is no book. There's no book. And I think you might appreciate this is that one of the things Coach Carroll talks about often is that fire from the Jets, fire from New England.

36:51Dr. Michael Gervais:And then he went on a self-discovery process. Yeah. Okay. So that was, that pain was like, oh wait, I need to get myself together. Yeah. I need to know who I am so that I can act accordingly, so that I can think accordingly. So he journaled his process to get down into who he was and what he wanted to build if he ever had another chance. And so the self-discovery process is huge. It's huge. I did the same thing. What is your process? If we knew what you knew about investing in yourself, if the listener or viewer were like, well, how do I do it? How do I know myself better? What did you do? Yeah, well, you know, I think it's, I was sitting in a situation where I got let go from Detroit.

37:38And I think you spend like, you know, you spend a while going, why? You know, what happened? Like, hey, there was a plan. We were moving. You know, it was going to happen, but it was a big, you know, why, why? And you stop saying why. And you start saying, okay, what did I do? Because we spend all of our time as coaches critiquing and criticizing and correcting and fixing. Well, okay, I needed to do that to myself. So it took a whole quality control approach. you know i called the people that worked underneath me on my staff the people that worked in the building and i just did like almost six months of interviews and i said listen i said this is gonna be this is gonna be hard for me yeah i said but i need it oh my god i said so please just and i wrote it all down and i tried to also ask questions like hey where do you think the problem was here how could i have done this different or what did i not see a lot of sometimes you don't see stuff you know and you're like what was happening and there was just a whole process of like six months of like gathering information hit that michael jordan thing too which was great for me i like i love the 30 for 30s right those are so inspiring and such you know good mental thinking of like i'm always trying to like how do champions think how do they work you know trying to tap into that mentality and i i talked to a bunch of people that had worked with me before i left and kind of you know i talked to my family a lot okay what would you know and look i would I would go to the office on Sundays after the game.

39:00I didn't go home till Friday. I slept in the office every night. I'd go home for Friday for two hours, see my kids, go back Saturday, and not go home again till Friday. Like, that's not a good way to live. I was going to just say. Yeah, and I was very large. I was eating, you know, all the time. And, you know, I was just like, A, I'm going to die.

39:20Dr. Michael Gervais:This is the dark side of high performance. is those mine, yours, yours, our selfish pursuit to be our very best. We say it's for the guys or whatever, but really there's something about us that we want to know we're okay. And winning is the anecdote of the insecurity of not knowing. So you're not on the dark side any longer. No, we're good. So the hard part is going back and reading all that information a couple months after you take it all. That's a beautiful process. Because really, as you're taking it, you're probably not actually comprehending it. You need to absorb all of it. It's like a fire hose.

39:56Yeah, and sometimes in my head, it's got to sit for a little bit. And then I went back and read through it all. And I think one of the things is you read through, when I read through my notes, I tried to identify before I went through, what are my core values? Why did I start coaching? What's important to me as a person and as a coach? and if I don't find these things in these next set of pages of notes that I just put down of what I just did I go then I got it I got a problem and I got to fix that yeah so what is your purpose coach yeah I love that question obviously take family out of it right you know and right now one of the beauties that I've been able to do is just be a better dad be a better husband you know I am not good at the work work-life balance at all yeah I did not learn that very well and as I'm listening yeah and and that is probably what affects me the most you know i get really depressed when i don't see my kids or i don't see my wife you know struggle with depression well i mean i think we all do right when we're in those situations you're working 20 22 hour days yeah right i mean that's not healthy no you know and you're constantly at the highest of high levels like think about it like in new england we went to eight straight afc championship games every year was like the maximum amount of stress and pressure and then the next year was more you know because they built and you're not taking care of yourself you're not in the best mindset and you know that that can affect you so i always say all the time like you know i'm i'm old and not every one of my years is going to be my best year and i know that first year in detroit was not my best year i know that you know for a fact yeah but that doesn't mean i'm not a good person it It doesn't mean I'm not a good guy.

41:37You know what I mean? It's just I was not my best. So you try to regroup and rebuild and go. So for me, you know, my purpose in the game had to really come back to, and this was not on my list of notes, somewhere along the line winning and competition and being at the top of the mountain crushed everything else that you get into coaching for. And I was like, wait, wait, wait. But I got into coaching because I remember at RPI watching Jimmy Schertzer, who was my replacement at right guard after I graduated. I'm a GA. I watched him do something in a game that I taught him how to do, and we scored a touchdown.

42:19And the joy that I saw on his face was my switch. Because you spend most of that year, when football is done and it's taken away from you as a player, obviously I'm small level football, small college football, but you spend the next six months going, I can still play.

42:33Dr. Michael Gervais:That's right. I can still do this. I can still do this but the joy you probably could play right now play a little tight he can catch a couple touchdowns but that joy that I saw him have on his face flipped it for me and I was like I had more happiness and appreciation for his joy than I did probably in my entire playing career and so that was my flip I wanted to help young men grow and be better men and football players and that was that was the reason that was i'm an aeronautical engineer like i had an unbelievable career path i left all that to go to coaching and that's why because i wanted to help people and i lost that somewhere coach i think it's bigger than just athletes i i i like i've been around a lot of great leaders i had an opportunity to learn from you guys from afar i'm a big fan of bill belichick and um what he's about and i'm also i fell in love with pete carroll when I was there.

43:33And so I understand leadership. And one of the things I used to do when I played, I would take notes of all my head coaches, from Mike Shanahan to Tony Sperano to Pete Carroll. I was able to take notes, and I was watching it. And I'm saying all that to say that I believe you're exceptional, and I think that it's bigger than just – and I'm not – you know me as a player. I'm not a bullshitter. Yeah. And I don't know if we – are we allowed to say this because we got presented by Microsoft. right but my big microsoft guy coach you're exceptional i appreciate you're exceptional and i think that your message and your philosophy your methodology is something that we can take as athletes as entrepreneurs and even also managing our household like if we take our same approach in sport to becoming the best husband yeah the best wives the best fathers like we're talking about high performance at another level yeah right I had that same challenge as a transitioning from athlete to entrepreneur I had the same mindset yeah going into building my company now leading my team I thought everybody were high was was high performers yeah or could understand the culture and what I did is I invested 15 million dollars into my company the first year we lost 400 ,000 the second year we hit five million a third year we had ten point five million dollars and then it came crashing down because what you mismanage you lose yeah and what I what where I was struggling was was building my team and a culture because I was coming in every day like the standard is the standard and he didn't know that like this person don't understand the environment that I came from that I was trained in and so the key learning for me over the last couple years has been how to build my team and build that culture and the the journey and the process of it so I spent the last year and a half just I'll show you I'll show I'll show you guys bill belichick pete carroll coach tomlin's um you know team meetings their speeches i was like hey guys this is the environment i'm used to so coach uh i'm right there with you and uh if i don't know why i'm feel called to say this to you but i feel like uh when you are in that meeting again in front of the ownership and you get that opportunity that you lead with that like man that's the power that's the juice yeah i appreciate that yeah thank you thank you what and thank you listen like i said we've known each other a long time competed against each other forever you know how much respect i have for you i wanted to bring you in because i knew you know again i knew you'd get it you know but for you to say that that means more to me than anything because you played the game and you've seen great leaders and you've seen coaches and i I just appreciate that a lot.

46:34Because there's a science that you have. Like you said, the science behind it. There's a science that you have that can't be taught. And one of the things that I've learned in my own journey is the relationships is all that matter. So now being able to put the emotional part in that you talked about and bringing up Chandler Jones and going back to 2012. Like that is the sauce. We got the science down, but then a relationship. That's it. That's it. It is. What a gift. And I always say with the relationship thing, my biggest thing was, and this is what we all need to be, and I would tell you, just be authentic.

47:14Yes. I don't care. Whatever it is, it is. It doesn't matter. I love all of you. Yeah. Just be authentic so I know. Yeah. Because once it starts to be unauthentic, you know, especially like me, like I've got to be authentic, then all the leadership styles don't matter. Yeah. People see the message. but if you're not authentic it's hard to see the message because they're too busy looking at

47:35Dr. Michael Gervais:what style are you yeah so there's three legs to trust authenticity is one of them so are you consistent in the character that you show in calm waters are you the same in rugged waters that's one the second is does your logic make sense do you have the ability should i trust you because It's like, can you get it done? And then the third is, do you see what I'm in this relationship for as well? Can you get the benefit from me? Is it all about you or is it about us? Do I trust your ability? And are you the same person, calm waters and rugged waters? Those are the three legs to the stool of trust.

48:13Dr. Michael Gervais:And it sounds like you've got them. So listen, I think we could go on for a long time. What a gift to have you here, Coach. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. Brandon Marshall, like, you really bring it home for us. So thank you for talking and exploring about the game inside the games. And this is a real treat. Thanks so much. I appreciate you guys more than I can explain to you. Why do we have to stop? So good. So good. So good. Thanks so much. Yeah, that is awesome. Yeah. You guys are the best. Okay, Copilot, you were part of all that conversation. And I didn't want it to end. Brandon didn't want it to end.

48:51Dr. Michael Gervais:And what is the main insight from that conversation? What stood out to you was Matt describing being in the zone, time slowing down, noise fading, and how he was able to focus only on what mattered. Flow state. Of course, flow state. All right. Thank you.

49:16All right.

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50:29Dr. Michael Gervais:Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional. So seek assistance from your health care providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.