The Psychology of Performance Under Pressure |Andrew Whitworth

21:12Dr. Michael Gervais:I really appreciate, because you are the strong man, go back to walking down the street. I really appreciate more than you would know probably. And maybe more than the Finding Mastery community would know how you are speaking about empathy and honestly talking about how hard you are in yourself, but you're not doing it like a badge of honor. Like, man, I'm so hard on myself. You're saying, no, I like, look, it's not great. I had to figure out how to work through this. I didn't hear you say that you were clinically depressed or clinically anxious. But I wonder if you teetered throughout your career with anxiety or depression.

21:54Dr. Michael Gervais:And I'm saying like real stuff. You did. And the reason I would know that and you would know that is because the way we speak to ourselves creates our relationship with ourself and it creates the relationship with our future. And so if you're speaking harshly about yourself, it's like this little micro cut, if you will. And it sets us up to feel kind of weak to be able to do the future. That's anxiety. I don't think it's going to work out. Man, we got to do this and this and this. It's not going to work out. Depression is like, man, it's not, it's really not going to work out. And I don't think I'm worth it.

22:28Dr. Michael Gervais:That type of thing. So how did you work through it? And maybe you can kind of walk me through that. Yeah. I think when you hear things that really help you kind of like, just like you would in a golf swing, it's like, Hey man, I'm gonna keep my red elbow in or my posture like this. Like you think of a swing thought. I think a life thought. So like for me, it's like little things that I've picked up through life that kind of helped me deal with those emotions and feelings. Like I can go all the way back to, I went to public school and elementary school, but I went to this private academy, OCS, Washtenaw Christian School in Monroe, Louisiana for just two years in junior high.

23:04And it was way far away from my home. And I can remember sitting by the flagpole in the night as it's dark and I'm waiting for my parents to pick me up because they would have to come get me when my dad got off work. And I can remember sitting and just staring at the sky and these anxious moments, these depressive thoughts and anxiety of like, just, I would get into these in-depth feelings and of just places I didn't even know where I was going. And then things would happen in high school as I went on to a public school in high school. And it's like, I'd have these moments where it's like something would happen.

23:38I'd get in trouble or I'd say something I wasn't supposed to, and I'd get so upset with myself. And then I would like, now I look back and I go, wow, those were markers in my life where I changed something about myself. Whereas at that moment, I felt like, why does this keep happening? Where it's like, I do one little thing and the whole world falls. And I'd be like, no, that's your image. Like you think the whole world falls when those little things happen. But actually those are moments where you're like self-correcting and you're figuring out how to live life. And so I would have all those dark moments.

24:05Like I think in college, like my freshman year, like my coach, Stacey Serral knows this, like I would play it bad in a game and I would walk home in the dark at night. I would make myself walk home instead of riding scooters or with the golf carts with the guys or buses. I'd walk all the way back to my dorm in the dark because it was like I deserved that because I didn't play well. And then that turned into, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go up to the facility and there's a sled. I know it's out on the field. I'll push the sled in the dark just to like punish myself. So I would, I kind of started to learn that actions deserved punishment.

24:39So I would like punish myself in the sense of if I failed or I didn't live up to my expectations, it became like that meant I needed to punish myself. I needed to regulate myself.

24:49Dr. Michael Gervais:Where did you learn this from? Is this dad's voice, uncle's voice, early coach's voice, mom's voice? You know, so I brought up the empathy thing, but part of the empathy thing is like, I've always also had this special ability to sponge. And what I mean by that is like, I can just be around, I can hear, I can listen. And like, I'm just people's conversations or people's thoughts or a show I watched or a movie. Like I really, when you watch a show and you're like, oh, this show makes me feel good. Like you watched A Full House back in the day or Family Matters or, you know, Fresh Prince. Like I didn't ever walk away with I like that show.

25:29That principle that whatever that show was about never lost my mind. And like I thought on it constantly and like pondered on it and like just all the time. Like it was in my mind of like the principle of, you know, a dad and a son and their love and man being rude to your friend. and maybe in a moment like selfishness or inclusion or excluding people, any of those emotions that in those shows, I deeply felt them. To the point where even now it's hard for me to watch a movie that's too emotional or going to make you think about something because it rocks me like a nightmare. I'm going to live in that emotion for days, whatever I watch, because in my mind I've got to feel it, I've got to empathize with it, and I've got to go through all the feelings that they went through and flush it.

26:16And then for me, the curiosity of who I am, like, how would I have handled it? How would I have felt? What would I have done? Like, what could they have done better? Like, what could the reaction have been? And I got to think through all those scenarios. And so that's how even in sports and in life, that's why I say this mastery of myself and the master of my craft have always gone hand in hand for me. Because I don't need to just master what I need to do in my craft. I actually have to have a figure out what was it that Chandler Jones should have done better? The guy I was going against. What should he have done better?

26:48What should the rusher have done better? What could have worked better for my opponent or, in my case, like in life experiences? Like, where was I right? Where was I wrong? Where was the other person right and wrong?

27:00Dr. Michael Gervais:Your level of awareness is kind of jumping out that you are aware of your inner experience, the way you speak to yourself and the way you feel at a really heightened level. And there's a double-edged sword to this. Very. Yeah, because I think you're not afraid to feel. I've been fortunate to be across four Olympic games, now three Super Bowl experiences as a sports psychologist, hand scores of others. I'm really clear that those events are for big emotions, but not because they're bigger than other games, but there tends to be big emotions that come forward in those experiences. And if you're not great with emotions, you get run over.

27:45Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. And I'll crosswalk that to life is for big emotions. And most of us are so afraid to feel the depth of the emotions that we mute it. You haven't done that. Yeah. Do you feel different than other people? I feel that I do. I don't know that I do, but the reaction of the people I get around is that I do. I'm wondering if there's a loneliness because of the depth that you go. Yeah. Massively. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people. Let's give an example. I have more people in my life, and I can say this not as a badge again, I have more people in my life that convey the message of, I'm so like thankful and grateful that you ever came into my life, than people that I would say I actually think I'm like really close with and friends with and I talk to every day, which is weird.

28:38I think that's a weird emotion. Like it's, it's like weird that That's not an emotion, it's a fact. It's a fact, yeah. Like, I don't have a lot of, like, people in my life that I'm like, oh, me and this person chit-chat every day. I have a lot of people in my life who, like, call me in their dark moment, and it's like, let's talk. And then I might not hear from them again for a while. That's right. But I'm going to be there, you know, and I'm going to be available. And nothing's changed. I'm not saying that in a negative way. I'm just saying I have more people in my life that it's that.

29:02Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah, right. Than I do that it's like I'm going to chit-chat. Or, like, people say, what's your golf group? Like, I don't have a golf group. Like I have a man, I'd really like to host this group of guys that I don't think ever get to go out and play golf. So I'm a member here because that I can create those experiences for them. And then I get to like feeling the joy of them getting to go play. Like I have more people like that, like that, that list is long. Cause I love to do that. I love to give people that experience. But you're not the lone wolf. You're a pack animal, but you're a mixed metaphors here for just a minute.

29:30Dr. Michael Gervais:Cause I had a metaphor about the well, like your well runs deep and people recognize it that because of that depth, they feel safe. Let's say your well goes down 10 units and there starts to kind of feel really cold water at unit three. And they're like, yeah, but Whit knows how to get down into unit 10. Like he can go a lot further. He's been there so I can call him. So you feel safe in that way to them. Yeah, I do. I feel like I don't think you can control what people's perceptions of a relationship are or what they might perceive, like why you would benefit from this relationship. Like I can't control the other side of those relationships.

30:04What I can control is my availability and my consistency of who I am over time to people. And I think that inevitably that's what means something to me. Like I don't care that a person texts me every day or like checks in with me every week. Like that may be a lonely feeling sometimes. Like, hey, man, I wish they'd hit me up like I'm kind of bored this week or lonely. But I don't really actually genuinely care in our relationship. What I do care is that if I give them information or I tell them I want to help them, that they understand that it is coming from a place where like, I genuinely just want like you to be happy and successful and like everything to work out in your life and the way that you want it to.

30:42And that's how I'm gonna provide the advice.

30:44Dr. Michael Gervais:That's the intersection between empathy and mastery. So you're sneaking a couple of things in here is that you are not interested in the things that you cannot control. Yeah. It's nice when somebody calls. It's nice when you win, by the way, you can't control winning. So 300 people call you when you win. You hear from your mom when you lose. That's the reality. And so what you are interested in is the way that you can work from consistency over time. Now you snuck that in there, consistency over time. And so I'm interested in how do you develop consistency? What does that mean to you? Time will take care of itself.

31:22It's happening right

31:22Dr. Michael Gervais:now underfoot. Okay. But how do you develop consistency from somebody who has high empathy, high awareness of what they're saying and feeling and how others might be saying and feeling or might be feeling things as well what is your mechanism to be consistent because i think it's consistent with character more than is consistent now with arm placement yeah yeah i think it's to me some really important values that that i relate to and that is like one that i think is really key and i think it's like you hear people who we're talking about nutrition and starting a diet or a life change. If we're talking about, you know, addiction and it's like, I want to create new habits.

32:00So if we're talking about making this change and, you know, whatever it may be in your life, that every single day is a new day that you reset the pieces and you go again. And it doesn't really matter what happened the day before. And so what I mean by that is, is like, all right, I'm going to live in this moment in this day and I'm going to try and accomplish everything it is that I set out to do. And I might fail at it. But the most important thing is not whether I failed and not whether yesterday was perfect. It's that tomorrow I wake up with the same renewed vigor and energy to go attack that same process again on a daily basis.

32:36And like, that means that, man, I want to be a better dad. Man, I might be awesome at morning dropping them off. And then in the afternoon, somebody might've invited me to play golf and maybe I missed a moment. Or maybe I got, you know, Amazon had me go do something. I might've missed one of my kids games or whatever. Like the next morning I don't wake up and go, man, I'm just a bad dad. Like, no, no, no. Today I go at it again. Like today it's like, I'm gonna wake up again. I'm going to create the most energy possible. And I drop them off. Like, let's be great. Let's have an awesome day. I love you guys.

33:03Can't wait to see this afternoon. And I'm going to try and live that day even better the next day. And it may happen again, but every day I redo it again. Did sport teach you that? Or did somebody in sport teach you that? I think what I started to realize is that the people in my life that had the most respect for, the coaches, the adults that I might have said, hey, you might not have been my mentor, but you're somebody I looked up to. I started to realize that the real character trait that a lot of them had was I could count on who they were. And so for me, when I grew up, people say, who'd you idolize?

33:36I go, man, I don't know. I never really got into the idol thing. Me too. I never got into it like that.

33:40Dr. Michael Gervais:I have a hard time with that question. What I did have, man, there's some traits that Jordan had that I think are really cool. There's some traits that Eggman had or Emmitt Smith or, you know, whoever it may be. It could even be a wrestler, like, you know, Hulk Hogan, the confidence. It could be all these things, right? No. But I always say, like, hey, don't tell me the person you idolize. Tell me the 25 traits of great people that you think you could emulate. And that, to me, is something that, like, I was always intrigued by. There's a mechanism that we walk people through. So we take best practices of elite sport and crosswalk them into big business enterprise.

34:14Dr. Michael Gervais:And so the same way we work with the head coach, the CEO, and athletes, we work with the employees. And so one of the things that we found is materially important is to know yourself, which is exactly what you're talking about. And we will ask a question. It's a kind of a walk-up, if you will, to help you know your personal philosophy. And we'll say, like, who are the people that you respect? But this is not the real question. Just jog it down. Like who are people you respect? Not admire. We don't use that word, but who respect? And then part two is what are the principles that they live by that are most interesting to you?

34:48Because we can't replicate their life or their choices really, but we can replicate

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35:35Dr. Michael Gervais:Stephanie has been on the podcast and it was one of my favorite conversations. She's amazing. And what her and her team are building is something I'm really excited about. Head to fatty15.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery for an additional 15 % off your 90 day starter kit. Again, that's fatty15.com slash finding mastery and the code is finding mastery. I want to take a second here to tell you about a morning routine that I've been using for years. For me, it's a great way to switch on my mind, to ready myself to take on the day. So before I check my phone, my emails, market updates, or text threads, I choose how to start my morning.

36:14Dr. Michael Gervais:That's always in my control. That's always in your control too. This is the same morning mindset routine that some of the world's top performers across sport, business, and the arts are using. The best part? It only takes about 90 seconds to do. So just head over to finding mastery.com slash morning to download the audio guide for free. Again, head to finding mastery.com slash morning to get your morning mindset routine. I always say that about coaching. Like you look at some of the coaches when people talk about a tree, they're like, man, why does somebody come from this tree, a coaching tree?

36:48Like you could look at the same thing in a business like this boss. Like how many people have been under this person and they've gone on to be successful and create this or that, right? I've always said I think people struggle who want to imitate who they're led by, but people who can figure out how to emulate. What are the standards? What are the processes of character? What are the pillars that this person's built everything of who they are on? Can you find some of those that could be one of your pillars? Is there something about them? I say this when Sean McVeigh got the job of the Rams. People are like, man, this genius X's and O's, all this stuff.

37:16No, he filmed it all. I know he did because he trained himself under the Niners and his grandfather and everything. So Bill Walsh filmed every single meeting. Sean filmed every single meeting we took the job. If you got the tape of the first three days of him being the head coach of the Rams, that could to this day be one of the greatest leadership meetings in the world, CEO meeting of any company. And it was about, let me help you guys understand the four pillars we will always be built on. Character, consistency, communication, all those things that relate to how we're going to do things. So like, what does communication mean to you?

37:51Is that verbal? No, it's not all verbal. any workplace. Communication is visual and it's verbal. It's your body language. It's the tone. It's everything you say things with. And it's what comes out of your mouth. Consistency on a daily basis, like how you're going to live. What are the standards? How are we going to uphold those things? Character. What does football character look like? And what does character off the football field look like? All those type things we put together is like, he's like, hey, these are the four pillars that will be built on. And once we build these four pillars, we'll move up to how we'll compete on the football field, how we'll do all these other things.

38:24But if we can't do these, everything will crumble because the house doesn't fall because the roof starts. It falls because the bottom, right? The base. And so when I talk about those things, it's like, when you look at people you've been around, I say, man, I don't want to be Sean McVay. I think there's plenty of qualities of Sean McVay. He can keep, he's my brother. I love him to death. Plenty of things I don't want to be like Sean. There's a million things that I'd love to be like him. But what I took from him were confidence that's built with humility. Like he's got confidence, but he's also got a humbleness that he doesn't have all the answers and you give him a problem, he's going to find a way to solve it.

38:59And he's going to work until he can't function anymore to find that answer. So he's got confidence that's built with humility. He's got passions that are built with persistence. That little kid who wants a baseball bat so bad for Christmas and mom and dad get it to him and two weeks later, they don't even swing it anymore. He's not built on that. He's got a passion of what we're going to do. And he's got persistence that we're going to finish it. We're going to find where those two things meet on a daily basis. Right. And so to me, when I look at people and I look at those things, it's like how are humility and confidence go together, how to passion and persistence go together, how all the things like people hate the word balance, but like balance doesn't mean I don't do anything more than I do another balance means finding how do I full throttle everything in my life, but find where all those things actually find a place to balance out in the middle.

39:46That's where I want to live. And I want to wake up every single day with the pieces reset on, I want to be a great father today. I want to do great in my workouts and my diet and my nutrition today. I want to be a great husband. I want to be a great friend. I want to wake up with that same vigor and energy and infectious enthusiasm that chases that version of me every day. First and foremost, I'll ask you to say it again,

40:08Dr. Michael Gervais:because I think you could, but what you just said was awesome. There wasn't a word out of place. and what i think most people might miss of the football world because they see large humans knocking each other around is there is incredible sensitivities to helping people become the very best yeah and there's a process there are frameworks there are practices that happen every day to a standard of excellence listen there's problems in football but it is a phenomenal working laboratory to figure out ways to express human potential and again there's some problems Oh, plenty. That's not for the aim of this conversation.

40:46Dr. Michael Gervais:I want to come back to humility in a moment. I want to place hold that. But I also want to say, I think you're really visual. The way that you are walking through everything you just walked through, which were principles, I think you see in your mind what you're saying. Oh, yeah. Right? There's a movie playing. There's a movie playing. And that movie is in color? Oh, yeah. It is. And so when you close your eyes and you see yourself being great, or you see something happening for one of your kids, you can actually feel that movie as well. Did you use mental imagery on a regular basis as an athlete?

41:20Yeah. So when I say I would study a Russian, do a dance with them, I can literally picture their bodies moving before the, like everything, the whole image that actually, I would say there's multiple times in my career where the movie played while I was playing. And I would be like, oh crap, he didn't do what the movie said. and it's like oh no like I could almost I could literally see it all so fast that sometimes I'd be like this is coming next and it was coming but I might go too fast like I was ahead of the movie yeah that's right like I could literally see the whole movie happening the whole time and it was like more about trusting that I was seeing the correct movie when we studied the difference

41:57Dr. Michael Gervais:between people that medal at the olympics and people don't when I say we it wasn't me it was the field I think it was back in like 2008 or something like that this research came out that But automaticity, meaning allowing things to be automatic, was one of the hallmarks of elite athletes that actually won in those competitions. And emotional regulation and self-talk. Those three were distinguishing features. And I think you have all three of those. Disciplined, aware of your self-talk, and probably pretty disciplined to know what's useful. You're allowing yourself to be automatic when you're at your best.

42:30Dr. Michael Gervais:Sometimes you'd see a movie and it would junk you up a little bit, but sometimes it was helping you. and you're able, because of your natural proclivity to empathy, you're able to work well with emotions in an honest way, right? Does that sound like some of the broth is coming together and you're principle-based? And it sounds like it was a great environment for you to be taught by somebody that was principle-based. Well, I said the sponge thing, right? I said empathy and sponge. I said I moved to sponge next, right? Okay, so I'll give you an example of the things we've just discussed. Okay. Don Schell is my high school football coach.

43:0158-2, three-state championship. ton of success.

43:05Dr. Michael Gervais:What is his last name? Don Shows. S-H-O-W-S. Don Shows. So Don Shows, 58 and two, ton of success. Punisher. Little small guy, think varsity blues, hung from my face mask every day, punished me every time I ever made a mistake. You know, like every, like literally verbally, physically destroy you at every mistake. Okay. Where did, what happened to me there? I built that characteristic in the college, Nick Saban. What characteristic did you build? Punishing myself. I want to go push a sled. I want to walk home in the dark. This doesn't sound healthy to me. No, but I'm a sponge. So every leader I've ever had.

43:43That's what you're saying. So here we go. Nick Saban. Process over results. I mean, I could quote out Nick Saban's press conferences. Best part is I am the least surprised person of anyone to see Nick Saban killing it on college game day. Why? because a lot of what people took as out of control of his emotions or anger or whatever, Nick Saban planned for you to ask him that question in a press conference for months and years before you ever asked it. And he knew exactly what was coming out of his mouth the second you did it because he had a process-driven mindset that I will be prepared to send messages.

44:23He wasn't talking to the media. He's talking to every single guy he led and every single person that worked with him. And he wanted you to hear his message.

44:31Dr. Michael Gervais:That's what Coach Carroll would say all the time. When I first met him, he would say it. When I'm in front of the media, Mike, I'm talking to the locker room. Yeah. Right. Sometimes I'm talking to ownership, but most of the time I'm talking to Nick Saban sending a message. That's right. Yeah. You took it as an irrational reaction to your question. He took it as I've been waiting for you to ask me that. And this is the tone and the energy that needs to be met with what I have to say. Or he'd say, hey, you guys want me to preach for a second? And he'd start talking because it's something he wanted you to just really feel what he had to say.

44:59So I learned that from Nick Saban. What did you learn there specifically? Well, just the process and the being prepared for all things at all times. So process over results, that's where I really think I developed my consistency as a human in every single day and how I'm going to work, how I'm going to prepare. And the scoreboard's not going to matter to me. What's going to matter to me is the next snap. do I come with the same energy and attention to focus and detail every single day?

45:23Dr. Michael Gervais:You say that the scoreboard didn't matter. Is that honest? It's easy to say. Yeah, because the only thing I'm focused on, like I said, we could win by 30. We could lose by 30. I'm still equally as upset with myself of my perfection. And that's what he really means. He doesn't mean a team that's disappointed in a loss or win. He means individually you need to become process driven. And if he can get, I say this all the time, like you brought up the book thing. Somebody asked me, hey, would you write a book? I say, yeah, I want to write a book. I want to call it It Takes All Eleven. Because the reality is that's what he's trying to get.

45:56He's trying to get all 11 individuals on the field to truly believe that the process with which they go about, how they prepare, how they play, their daily process every single day, if he can get 11 guys to process it that way, then they're going to be unbeatable because that's the truth. truth and that's what's cool about football is that it takes 11 people and one can be off right and the only way you still are successful if one of those 11 isn't good is somebody has to do something supernatural right just something you've never seen before they've got to overcome it right they've got to overcome this big adversity but you come from a place where you look in the nfl there's 53 guys different communities different skin colors different backgrounds different economic statuses we've got to figure out how in the world we come up with a process that we all believe in, that we all want to fight the same direction, that we want to overcome an ACL.

46:47We want to overcome an injury. We want to overcome this pain. We want to overcome our wife and I are getting along. Our kids are stressed out. This is going on at home. My parents, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the same energy we're going to come together with every single day, we're going to go chase this championship. And oh, by the way, this other team over here, they're employed and they have the same kind of talent. They have the same kind of abilities and we got to overcome them as well. You've got to be able to get all these people to buy into that belief and direction. That's the challenge of a coach.

47:13That's the challenge of the leadership of a football team. And so to me, that's what makes football so unique and special is all the things that have to encompass success.

47:24Dr. Michael Gervais:I'll add one layer to it. You said it's good for a football coach or a leader. I think it's also good for a business unit, a business leader and a father or a mother and a family unit, like it's, or maybe a preacher or a nonprofit leader, like same, same idea to get noses and toes pointed in the same direction with all of those unique narratives and the noise that's happening inside of all of our lives to line up in that way is really hard to do. So you took from Nick Saban process. Process and results. An honest investment in process. And how to build it. Now, let's go to the next journey. Cincinnati Bengals for 11 years.

48:01Marvin Lewis. What did I learn in that place? Well, a place that a lot of chips were stacked against you from a competitive standpoint because just ownership there is always operating a different way. But Marvin Lewis was one of the most consistent humans that I'd ever seen in my life of just who he was going to be. Even at a young age, he was a true grandpa-like figure. He believed in toughness and no sympathy whatsoever. And just, you sign up for this job. I don't care what your excuses are. I don't care what other things you could say. We could not win. We can't win because of this. We can't win because of that.

48:33No matter what, I show up every single day. I put my hard hat on and I go to work. And that's the things he talked about. That's the things he believed in. And he loved his guys to this day. When I see him, he tells me about every single player and where they are. And their mama said, they're not doing good. Or their mama said they are doing good. Or they started this business or now they're coaching. And he'll even call me, just call me two weeks ago. Hey, your buddy, you play beside Nate, he's getting into coaching. I just called him trying to get him a job. You know, like he'll just update me like a true father.

49:00Dr. Michael Gervais:He's a relational person. Yep. Oh, like a true father, like a true father. And so like, To me, he gave off that vibe of that kind of love for you when you played for him and the consistency you could count on in him. Unconditional. Yeah. Does he talk to the guys that didn't play very well the same way? I always felt like Marvin was one of the most even-keeled, sane person to everybody. Now, not everybody loves. It's just about toughness. It's just about, hey, there's no sympathy here. You may not appreciate that, but that was the reality of who he was. Now, what you would get frustrated at times is, is like, hey, Marvin, I know you love these guys, but like sometimes you need to punish them a little bit or sometimes you need to say, hey, there's some repercussions for if you show up overweight or if you don't do things the right way or you get in trouble.

49:44Like I get it. Like we want to keep giving these guys an opportunity to change or we want to keep giving these opportunities to be a certain way. But at some point we got to hold them accountable. Like there's got to be accountability in this picture. How do you do accountability privately or publicly? I think it always starts privately. I think that's the reality is that I don't really ever see where public accountability helps. I mean, private accountability that's built on our relationship and uniqueness of, you know, you may not love me or you may not respect me, but you know what you can't appreciate about me is that me and you're able to have this conversation and I've told you how I feel about it and you can feel about it the way you are.

50:19And that doesn't mean we end on the same page. It might end, we end differently, but eventually you'll come to a place where you'll go, I may not respect you, but I respect what you had to say. And I'll process it. It's not my job, how they process the information and what they do with it. It is my job if I'm the person in charge, if I'm the head coach or I'm a captain or I'm somebody who's in charge of the standard, it is my job to make sure it's known that it doesn't meet the standard. That is my job.

50:44Dr. Michael Gervais:And you do that privately or publicly? Privately, always. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn. Earlier, I mentioned LinkedIn Hiring Pro, and I want to come back to something a little more personal. We talk a lot about the people who make extraordinary things possible. And I want to take a moment to acknowledge some of ours. Janelle, Taylor, Alex, Emma, and our newest teammate, Chelsea. Every single one of them came to us from LinkedIn. And every single one of them has raised the bar of how we operate here at Finding Mastery. Our relationship with LinkedIn, it also runs a lot deeper than just using their tools.

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51:53Dr. Michael Gervais:So if you're thinking about your next hire, I want to strongly encourage you to be intentional about where you look. The right person is out there and LinkedIn Hiring Pro helps you find them faster with a lot more confidence. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash mastery. Terms and conditions apply. Again, that's linkedin.com slash mastery. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Sunlighten. I'm really excited about a new partner of ours. something that I've come back to again and again is when I invest in recovery with the same intention that I bring to my work, everything gets better. My energy, my focus, my ability to show up fully for the people that I'm with and the work that I care about.

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53:11Dr. Michael Gervais:And what I love most, I don't have to leave my home. They're offering the Fonny Mastery community up to$2 ,100 off. Simply head to sunlighten.com and use the code mastery for this great discount. Again, that's sunlighten.com and use the code mastery for up to$2 ,100 off. And so if there's film on Monday, so you played on Sunday, film review on Monday in front of the whole team and you did not play well, okay? Something was going on. You had a tough go at it. Would your best coaches not say anything or would they say something like, hey, Andrew, we know that this is not your typical thing and we're counting on you.

53:51Dr. Michael Gervais:Or would they be like, dude, what are you doing? We've been working on take a half step, not a full step. Like, why are you still taking a half step? You know, like what's the best model when there is a moment that review is public to hold people accountable? Like, how do you do that? And the reason I'm, I know you're good friends with Richard Sherman. Richard at the Seahawks really wanted public accountability. you know and that's always yeah always he always does yeah he's gonna say it and he wants you to say it and like say it out loud you know so how would you manage monday when there was mistakes being made well it depends on what the mistakes are so if you're telling me that a guy got beat because a guy's flat out better than them or they got outmanned as we would say it in the game of football like hey that this person was just more talented than you and there's not a whole lot you could do other than, hey, man, maybe there's a little technique thing or something that may could have sustained this opportunity better.

54:46Or we could have done this a little better physically. I mean, that's a different thing than, all right, here's the standards of how we think we want to execute this. And we know that this is your baseline assignment and you're doing it wrong. To me, that's got to be called out. Like if you're not in the spot that you're supposed to be in, when you're supposed to be there, something that you actually control, that's not, you know, some of these physical things of getting overcome with how fast a guy is or like he's stronger than you or bigger than you or whatever. Like there's not a whole lot you can coach in those moments.

55:17But what you can do is say, were you in the right place? Were you playing with the standard or how we think effort, energy, attention to detail is supposed to be? And those kinds of things, I think the whole room respects that kind of accountability. And a home room wants it, Like Sherm said, like you want those things pointed out. The difference is, all right, we come back to training camp, you know, two of your starting linebackers are 40 pounds overweight or they're 30 pounds overweight and they can't play like, you know, or they need to lose weight to be ready to go for the season. See, that is a different kind of accountability.

55:52Dr. Michael Gervais:Okay, that's good. Play this one out. Play they're late and disheveled and their pupils are so big in the morning because they've been drinking too late. drinking too much, drinking it all. And then they go out and they perform lights out. They're really good. How do you deal with that type of behavior? Because this is what I think in elite sport or even college and youth, you know, not that college is an elite, but it's different. And in business, a high earner, somebody that is extraordinarily talented, but bad teammate, bad culture person. Like how do you manage that type of complexity amongst the team?

56:30Well, I think you hear people try to make all these things all the time. Like coaches will say all the time, like, hey, you know, you may not all get treated the same, but you're all going to get coached the same. You know, all those type sayings. I think that's a reality in our sport. I think the words that I thought you were about to say that I've heard a lot is production breeds tolerance. And that's the truth in the game of football. It's just it's a reality. It's the truth in life and businesses and everything else. We tolerate a lot of high earners. Right. And I would say that for me personally, if that's somebody that is a higher earner, but I'm the captain or we're a leader or we expect them to live in a certain way.

57:04I always kind of went by this. I think of it as a head coach and the people in charge. Like those are kind of like, if you will, the, you know, generals, the sheriffs of a community. And they've got to kind of establish here's our law. Right. Here's our rules. now that next group of guys, the captains, the leaders, like, all right, if this guy has a law and a rule and this is actually what it's going to be, which you've got to be consistent in, you can't change it on me. Then you give me the freedom to be the person who kind of polices it a little bit and says, Hey, Hey, listen, like he's late.

57:39What's our standard? Our standard is they get fined. Okay. We'll find them. Like, there's no question. We don't need to talk about it. We don't have to have an argument. We don't have to like find them every single time. Just create a fine level that we think sends a message and do it. Like there's no discussion that needs to be had in those situations if it's about being late. Now, if it's a repeat offender, right, it's fine them. And it's, Hey, as a captain, as a leader, like, Hey man, you know what? It's my job to make sure that I get with that guy and say, Hey, like not, you can't do that.

58:11Hey, what's, what's going on, man? Like, what's up with you? What's going on in life? What's going with you. Like, how can I meet you in a place where I say this all the time and you're going to hear me cross relate a lot of things. That's just how I am. Like I told you this. So I say this like with community service, you know, one Walter Payton man of the year, really amazing honor.

58:27Dr. Michael Gervais:Explain for folks that don't know what that is. So Walter Payton man of the year is the NFL's highest esteemed honor. So it's why it's given the very last award on NFL honors. And it is people who have excelled on the football field and everything they've done in sport. And then they've excelled as a community leader in how they've devoted themselves to the communities they've played in and the things they've either through their charity or through their efforts been a part of trying to improve the communities in many different ways. And so I had that honor, you know, also in my last week in the NFL of winning Walter Bainley or in a Super Bowl, pretty insane way to go out.

58:58But to get to do that, I used to always say when I got into that and the more I was a part of it, which goes back to empty a little bit is like, I didn't ever want to be the person who's like showing up at something and just providing somebody with something that I thought they needed. I wanted to be someone who found this relationship with them and said, oh man, like this is what they need. Like I can feel through their heart or through where they are. Like I can, they can tell me directly, this is what you need. So like, I always wanted to go meet the people that were maybe struggling to find a home or they're, you know, have lost their home and stuff.

59:29Like, what is it that, oh, you need this. Okay. Call our director and say, Hey, Molly, they need this. Like, this is what we're doing. I'm not coming to you with what you need. I'm coming to you to meet you like this and go, this is what you need. So as a leader, the guy who's habitually late, I want to go form a relationship and go, what is it that's leading to this? Like, how can I help them solve their own problem? Not for me, but for them. And if I can help them solve their problem, then naturally, not only are they possibly going to eliminate the problem, but now when new problems arise, who do you think they're going to think of when they're like, man, this is a struggle.

1:00:06Like, I wonder if Big Wit would have something to tell me about X, Y, and Z. Like, when I think of my career, I don't think of playing as a Cincinnati band. I don't think of Los Angeles Rams. I think of Gio Bernard having, like, you know, wanting to get married and ask, you know, Chloe to, like, she's going to make her my fiance. Or Muhammad Sanu having his first kid. Or A.J. Green and, like, his first ever contract. And Andy Dahl on the first time he was with a contract. First time he had a kid. Like, I think of those moments. Cooper cup, the first injury he had as a rookie, like him and Anna and their children and like their families, they've grown together.

1:00:36Like I think of those things that I got to be a part of these cool conversations that these guys were having these huge life moments. And I got to sit there with them and think about it. Like not, not that I gave them an answer, but that I got to like live it with them a little bit.

1:00:50Dr. Michael Gervais:So your empathy leads to curiosity or your curiosity leads to empathy. How did those two variables work? Probably curiosity leads to empathy because I would say that empathy is built off being able to be there. Right. And like, you can feel and all those things. Like I can walk in a room. I says people all the time, like a lot of times they're like, man, you're so awesome at like public speaking and blah, blah, blah, blah. And like some, but I'm like, ah, yeah, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts, but I would say I'm even better at Q and a, because if like, I can hear your voice and hear your question, I can feel like where you're at.

1:01:21And then I know what you're really looking for from me. Like, I know whether you're just a true football fan and you really want me to tell you like a cool football story, or if you really like man, I'm trying to figure out how my life can relate to this question that you experienced this thing in football because I need a little inspiration or I need a little something to make me feel better. And I'm like, oh, so this person needs this story, you know? And so it's like that kind of thing, right? So my curiosity, I would say, I sit around, I would say this and like, this is weird to say, I sit around and think about people and like way more than they realize, like way more than they realize.

1:01:52They have no idea. Like I sit around and I meditate or think about so many people in my life all the time. And it's like, I'm thinking about where they might be in life. I'm thinking about what I know they've kind of experienced here recently. Where might they be? What might they be feeling? Like I'm always playing that out of my head. So I think that's curiosity first.

1:02:11Dr. Michael Gervais:You've mentioned your family a number of times and I know how important they are to you. In your language, what does it mean to be a great father? What does it mean to be a great husband? I would probably be more built on leadership by example is one. Consistency is two, because I truly believe, I think sometimes to me, when you look at it, you know, I've heard this said before, and it's one of my favorite things to say, but it's like the reality of like when you're in a position of leadership, which is what being a father is. And even in your home, you and your wife, y 'all are equal in positions of leadership with each other.

1:02:49You know, we're on the same team. So we're all trying to accomplish the same things. It's usually my usual talk to my wife when I get along. I'm like, well, hold on one second. Like we're all going the same direction, right? Like, let's, how do we help each other go that direction? Let's just do that. Let's not get into who's right or wrong. You know, that's usually what we have to get to. But what I mean by that is, so to me, you can teach what you know, but you'll only ever reproduce or replicate who you are. And so that's what I believe is that, yes, there is a version of me teaching. But I walk in and I think it's Owen Wilson in a movie, Me and Dupree.

1:03:23He's talking to this school of kids and he gives this talk and he's this, I can't get it to the other guy, but he gives this speech about whatever it is, this principle in life. And at the end, he says, now, some of you got that. And he's like, and then some of you, like one day it's just going to poof, like it's going to be, you're going to get it. And in your time, you know, when your spaceship's ready, you'll take off, you know, and you'll get what I just said. And that's how I think of what I know. Like, I don't think that I have all the answers. I don't think that like someone needs to hear what I have to say.

1:04:00But I do think with my kids, my family, people that I have a chance to mentor, lead, or just be a friend to, like, there's a lot of things that I'm going to say or hope that I pour into them. And sometimes it's the right time for them to hear it. And sometimes it may take a while for them to get it. And that's okay. Like, I'm not here to act like I have all the answers. But I do think it's my job to make sure that I tell you the things that I think were important to me and how I got to where I'm at and maybe through depression at times, through anxiety at times. These are the things that I kind of wish somebody would have said to me or these are kind of the things that I wish I'd have felt.

1:04:35Like when I look back over my career, I think of like, man, I wish I could have played this game without that anxiety. I wish I could have like had this part of my career where I didn't think I was a failure and I would have played so much better. But the reality was, is I know I had to go through all those journeys to be what I need to be for people around me.

1:04:53Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. What percentage of all the games in the, just say the NFL for right now, did you play free? And what percentage of the games did you play with anxiety? Oh, man, way more with anxiety. I mean, it's not even close. I would say like, you know, Sean and I talked about this a lot. Sean McVay. Sean McVay and I talked about this a lot. I think Sean McVeigh is one of the more special leaders I've ever been around when it comes to really bringing stuff out of people and the ability to communicate a message. And we became instant friends the second we met each other because we realized both of us kind of can't sit still and we have to kind of be doing that thing.

1:05:28And I would say like there's times when it's like people may see they'd watch a game and it's like I'm wearing sleeves or I have a visor or my feet are spatted, whatever it may be. sometimes I realized I had to dress up like Superman to tell myself that I was Superman and to not be because I think less before I had kids before I had obligations and people that I feel like I can't let down more anxiety once I had a family and once I had kids oh that's because Because now I feel like I've got all these priorities that I've got to be this warrior for. It's not just like I once had this quote that was famous when I was protecting Andy Dalton.

1:06:11And I got thrown out of a game because a guy hit him late. And I went after the guy. And I said, I have two contracts in my life with my wife and with my quarterback. I protect both of them. And that was like how I lived life prior to kids is like, that's literally what I sign up to do. You will never touch them. and like I'll protect them at all costs. And so as you added more things to that and as there's more people that like I'm in charge of, if you want to call it that, or they feel I'm responsible for, all the anxieties played more pressure on me. Wow, so being a parent has changed the way you competed.

1:06:48Dr. Michael Gervais:Oh, massive. It led to me retiring, really. Tell me more. So 2020, we're playing the Seattle Seahawks. I think we're seven and three at home. Was this the COVID year? COVID year. Quiet stadium. Yep. Family and kids and everybody can't be there because of so far, you know, with LA rules and restrictions. And so blow out my knee. And that had been after, you know, my daughter, Sarah, had now entered that age old enough, like 10 and over, where it started to become like, I'm scared daddy's not going to be okay when he's out there on the field. You know, like she started to have this anxiousness about it.

1:07:23Somebody's built on anxiousness. Like, obviously I'm empathetic. Like, I'm going to feel that to a really deep level. that happens. And I'm like, she's rocked by it. I come back. I set on this mission. I tore my PCL and MCL. And I'm like, in eight weeks, we'll be in the playoffs. We have a good enough record. We should make the playoffs. If this team makes the playoffs, I'm going to be back. I make this promise to the guys. Every day I go there, the guys are so excited. I'm the oldest guy by far that, you know, big wits coming back for the playoffs. So I go on this mission to come back, probably foolishly, because I wasn't really as healthy as I probably should have been.

1:07:58I come back. We go to Seattle, ironically enough. My next game is against Seattle, and I make it back in eight weeks to the playoffs. We win in Seattle. Really amazing moment, emotional moment for me. My family gets to come, because at this point, it's a little bit of, some people can come. And then we end up losing the next week to the Packers. But the reality is I make it back, go through that next season, and I realize that it's starting to affect her. Like, she's just, now I've seen that, and she was already anxious. Now she's sitting there in the suite and can barely watch and can barely like, you know, because she's just, I just want dad to be okay after the game.

1:08:33And she'd say stuff like that. It was no longer like, hope you win. It was like, I'll be there for you when you're okay after the game, you know, that type stuff. And so that was when I really started to say, all right, that's enough. Like, I'm good. Like if she's anxious, I'm already anxious. I don't want her anxious. So that's when I really kind of made my decision. This is going to be my last year. Now, granted, I was also 40. It was the oldest left tackle in NFL history that season. So really cool accomplishment, but, and it was something I'd set out to do, but I knew then it's like, all right, I made this goal to do this years back, but I've done everything I can do and I've accomplished the goal that I had.

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1:12:15this playoff run and I win multiple break man of the year and I win the Superbowl and I have the epic moment that went viral with all of them on the ground. The NFL films caught of me telling them that was daddy's last game. And like, I'm, I'm with you guys now, you know, and that's what it's about. And that was a really cool, special moment. So the anxiousness of her made me alert to something going on in me. And it helped me find like, all right, when you were 34 and you You had a patella injury. You told yourself if you got through that patella injury, you were going to chase this chance to be the oldest tackle to ever play because you thought you could do it.

1:12:50You did it. Now who are you playing for? And it's like, you know what? Nobody. So there's nothing left to accomplish or nothing left to prove. And then all these things happen. And so right there in that moment, that was the first time my kids ever heard I'm done.

1:13:05Dr. Michael Gervais:What was the emotions that just came up for you just a few seconds ago? Did you feel it? Yeah, I mean, proud was one just because I still will always cherish that moment sitting with them on that field because the coolest thing was I wasn't even worried about celebrating winning. It was like the meditation easiness came over me. And I just was like, you know what? Like, let's all sit in a circle for a second, which is like the weirdest thing you'd think after winning a Super Bowl. I'm like, kids, everybody's get on the ground. Let's sit in a circle and let's talk for a second. I'm just like be with dad in this moment.

1:13:42I'm watching confetti fall and I'm like, I want to sit with him in a circle and tell him like, thank you for being at all these games and supporting dad along the way. And the wild part about that is, is like, which they'll one day understand. I was actually releasing my anxiousness of playing a game that I can't control scenarios and I am built to never let anybody down. So I'm going to let people down. That's just the truth of playing sports. The truth of being a high earner, the truth of competing at a high level, whatever you do in life, you're going to fail. But I hated failing people. So you just gave me a chance with the perfect ending with my family to walk away from ever failing anyone again in that sense.

1:14:26That's awesome. I'm so relieved. So it's like that almost gave me my out to like, hey, I'm just going to go love you guys. Like, I'm not going to have to worry about whether I'm failing everyone with my body, with everything else. It gave me this release.

1:14:41Dr. Michael Gervais:Wow. Two boys and two girls? Yeah. Do they play sport? Yeah, they all play. And if you could speak to parents based on what you know about elite sport and what you now understand about youth sport, how would you guide parents? Man, I think that there's, you know, to what I spoke to earlier, there's this healthy blend and balance of teaching them the principles of how to compete and be their best version. Like, do they want to wake up and become the best version of themselves every day? Them, not you. Do they want to become the best version of themselves? If they want that, how can you meet them somewhere to help provide it?

1:15:20but also give them the guidance of your real task is to make sure that they don't get imbalanced. Your real task is to make sure they keep some balance and who they are as a person. And if they're working so hard, like we make it about the hours they throw or the hours they spend in travel ball, but it's really about are you starting to see signs that that's taken away from one quality in their life or some ability in them or physically or whatever it may be. Like your job is to actually, if you're actually truly there in support and a support system is to, support. All right. Where can I help them with the imbalances they have?

1:15:54This is where we need to pull back. This is where they need to lean in. I'm going to help them find this healthy balance where they're happy and they're chasing success and they're enjoying chasing that success because one day it's not going to be fun. Like that's the reality. Like when you hear these guys talk about it, it's like, I don't care if it's Tom, Brady or Kobe, whoever it was like, yeah, they had fun in the things that it led to, but they were living in this spot. That's a little bit of darkness of chasing that version of themselves that you live in some darkness when you're going to do that.

1:16:26And so one day they're going to live in that. You don't want them to live in that for 20 years. So like while they don't have to live in it, help them not live in the dark in that chase, help them hear why they're special other than just the sport they play in, why it's so important that they have values that are bigger than just the sport they play in. Because the hard thing they don't want to hear is that most of those kids have it or they don't. And it's absolutely nothing you're going to do about it or them. But the greatest thing they can walk away with it from healthy habits, consistency, like how to be a consistent human, how to have a healthy value in who they are when they compete and whether they win or lose.

1:17:10Like I'm not trying to become tough by saying I'm the same person, whether I won or lost because of my process. I'm trying to say that if I told you at 8 a.m. on Monday to my yoga teacher, I'm going to be in the studio with you. And on Sunday, it doesn't matter if I get blown out 42 to nothing or a win 42 to nothing, even if I went to celebrate or I didn't go to celebrate and I was miserable, I'm going to show up. Teach them how to show up. Teach them how to have healthy habits. Teach them how to live within the confines of what does it mean to wake up every day and chase a better version of yourself and chase happiness.

1:17:45And like, that's the greatest opportunity you have. And that's the only thing that really matters because the rest of it is completely out of our control.

1:17:52Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. What a great model. What are some of the non-negotiable habits that you've clearly established in your life? I think one of the big ones that's probably been, you know, important to my life and my success goes all the way back to the story I was going to tell you. And we went on this tangent about talking to Al Michaels and Kirk Herbstreet and Drakeman is the thing he told me. Let's go right back to that. Kirk Herbstreet told me, he said, dude, I was a Cincinnati Bengals fan. Obviously, Kirk's a huge Cincinnati Bengals fan, always has been. He goes, I've watched you. He goes, you're this big, scary monster dude.

1:18:26And when your mouth opens and people see your face, you're the warmest, loving teddy bear they've ever met. And he's like, I would go do TV views. I was, how would you? Because people will fall in love with you. And I was like, I've never heard anybody tell me that. And so I was like, okay, that literally like sold me to go do it. And what I would say is, is it's the same thing I talk to my kids about all the time. Like I just had a run in with my 13 year old son because he is built like me with empathy and feeling and just who he is and how deeply thinks. And he'd been a little bit of a rut at school just because it's a little bit of struggle.

1:19:02His brother's moving on to high school. He's not gonna be with him anymore. Like there's a separation in his friend group now because they're all friends where he's going to be in eighth grade and they're going to be in high school. And so it just kind of feels like this last semester has been a little tough for him, like kind of realizing that a little bit. So there's been a little bit of a, I don't care in his personality. But one of the things we talked about for a long time yesterday, and all of my kids know this, like the number one thing, our family, we care about my wife and I, like, remember that like the greatest thing you leave people with is how you make them feel.

1:19:35And like, that is what you actually do control. And that is what's really important is that how you make people feel matters. And regardless of how it goes for you or for them or for anything, what are the feelings that you want to leave people with when you walk out of a room or walk out of an encounter or relationship, whatever it may be that you don't have to have an equal representation of what you thought happened or how it happened, but you do have some responsibility in how you made them feel. And, you know, I think to us, that's super important. So my thing was leaning into him of like your teachers, the people that you're around at your school, like, how are you making them feel?

1:20:14Like, do your teachers feel like you're a quitter? Do they feel like you're not trying? Do they feel like they're, are they feeling like they're getting the best version of you? Like, make sure you go have a conversation with them and clear up where you've been, like how things have kind of been. And now you, this is where you want to get to.

1:20:29Dr. Michael Gervais:You introduced, you kind of slipped in the dark side of sport, of elite sport and the dark side of mastery, the dark side of getting better. And I hear this thing that you're doing. It's like, let's go above the line and below the line, like below the line, it's dark and above the line, it's light. You're spending a lot of your time and framing to help keep things above the line. Cause you know, the dark side is there. And if you are going to lean into knowing what you're capable of, you do need to go into that territory too. And it sounds like the age of innocence you're trying to extend and you're also helping your sons and daughters to elevate themselves, to realize that they are contributing factors to other people.

1:21:09Dr. Michael Gervais:So stay up, you know, stay in the light side of it. It sounds like. That brings me to the last coach, Sean McVay. Let's do it. So I was somebody who lived in the dark, probably my entire athletic career. I meet Sean McVeigh, the energy and the pillars, and you can listen to me talk and you understand why I gravitated to that immediately. We gravitate each other. And he was somebody that his whole message his first year there was never fear failure. Always just fear regret. Always shoot your shot. You will fail. A setback is nothing but an opportunity for a really cool comeback. Like that's all it is.

1:21:47You think of how I'm built, like every failure is the end of the world. So I always say this like in an emotional way, like Sean McVay brought me into the light. So when you hear me talk, when you hear me say these things, people will go, man, dude, have you been this leader your whole life? Heck no. Have I had some of those qualities? Yes. But I always was built in. I had to live in the dark and I wasn't worthy of the light to be good. Sean McVay helped me realize that because I work hard, because I devote myself to this, you deserve the light, dude. And people actually will be brought to the light if you'll open your mouth and tell them more about your story and what you've been through.

1:22:27So where do you feel that when you say it? Everywhere.

1:22:31Dr. Michael Gervais:Like where? Deep in my chest, in my heart. Like he actually created this. No, like I'm worthy in me. But I just want to know how you feel it. I feel it in every bone of my body. Like I feel like mentally how I am wired. wired. I mean, people take medication for depression, whatever it may be, that was my medication. Like, I don't know why, you know, God felt this was the moment for me to meet this person in my life, but he did. And that led to, you know, regardless of our ups and downs from there, that led to me seeing this light version. And I'm more interested in like, what are you doing with the emotions you have?

1:23:14Dr. Michael Gervais:Because I can feel it. I can sense it. And I think you're trying to contain it, but I'm not sure right now. Yeah, right now for sure. Yeah. So just tell me more about that piece right there, because what a gift he gave you. It's inside of you. You feel, I think this is a love for him and appreciation for him, I think. I'm not sure. But you're containing it for some reason. Well, I just, I feel like that's the emotional tough guy side, But it's like one of those things that I look at from when I got here in 2017. Like, I think people will probably say like, man, you were a Bengal for 11 years. Like we hear you talk about the Rams a lot and blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:23:52And it's really more about it. I have the same appreciation for all those years. But a lot of those years were built me personally, just living in this. I wanted to be in the light. I want to be a leader. I want to be all these things, but I don't ever feel I'm worthy for them. So I just live in the dark and like punish myself and work harder and blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's how I live my life. Whereas when I became a Ram and I met Sean and he ingrained these thoughts of like, you belong and you're worthy and setbacks are just opportunities for comebacks. And like, these are the processes.

1:24:23Now you think of like how much impact Nick had on me with the process. Now you're building this process of positivity. And I'd like, wait, a process of positivity, like a process of believing you can do something. Like I never did that. I always believe, tell me I couldn't do it. I'll do it. Like I always believe like you're not worthy enough to do it. So you've got to work harder than the person next to you to be able to do it. Like there was a reason I'd never worked out a facility with other athletes my entire career until I got to Los Angeles because I wanted to be in the dark on what other people are doing and feel like I can sit here in my garage and I can push myself so far with the unknown of what you're doing that I'll be in better shape than you.

1:25:02And so that's how I was built. You didn't do team workouts? I mean, I went to the facility once we started OTAs. But like truly, when you're working in the offseason, I never trained at facilities. I never worked out with other guys because I just wanted to push myself where I didn't know anything because I felt like that was the best way. So I meet Sean, all that changes. Then it starts to become, think about what happens after that. So after 17, we have this awesome year, huge turnaround. We lose in the playoffs to the Falcons. That makes me 0-7 in the playoffs. in NFL. I think that was the record at the time in NFL history, the worst winning percentage ever.

1:25:36So it makes me 0-7 in the playoffs.

1:25:39Dr. Michael Gervais:And you're typically on an NFL team, you're likely the second highest paid person on the field. Yeah, somewhere in there. Somewhere in there. So now, as far as NFL history goes, the players who've made the playoffs and lost, I'm right there as a number one in losing the most with the highest percentage. So the next year though, 2018, now you spoke all this life to me. I am this person who's lived this life the way I've lived it. The fires happen in 18. We get displaced and have to go, you know, out of our homes and we get out of our homes for two weeks. We play Seattle. We win. We're supposed to go to Mexico City to play the Chiefs.

1:26:12Something's wrong with the field there. We go to Colorado to train. Our whole entire team is going through absolute chaos because our families are out of their homes. I've never experienced something like that, except for I have. My senior year at LSU was Hurricane in Katrina. And so I'd seen the experience. I'd been through it. So there's this moment that happens. There's a shooting at Borderline Bar in our area. The fires happen. We're sitting in a meeting. They're bringing all these people in here trying to explain what happened with this shooting in this local area right close to us. There's the fires that are removing us.

1:26:45Like now we're going to move out of our houses. And I stand up and start talking. And like, I don't know how many times I've ever done this in my career, but like, I'm just standing up, talking to the whole team, leadership's in there from Kevin Demop, all those people about just in these moments, like don't overthink, don't over like process. Like you don't have to be, you have to be perfect. You have to be present. Like just go do something. You want to go sit with somebody at the hospital, go sit beside them. You don't have to say a word to them. Just sit there with them. If that makes you feel better.

1:27:12If you want to donate some money, you want to donate your time, you want to give them something, whatever it may be. When I was in through Hurricane Katrina, I met LSU fans who were like, Hey man, I lost everything I ever had, but I kept this ticket. And for three hours, I get to watch you guys play on Saturdays and it's the greatest three hours of my life because everything else is awful and I've lost everything. But you guys give me this relief away from it. So I'm sharing these stories and just telling them like, whatever it is in your heart, just do it. Don't think about it, do it. You know, and I give them the speech about that.

1:27:40And I sit down and like that became the beginning. And then it's like from there, it's like, all right, wait a minute. All the feedback was like, dude, they do want to hear from me. They do want me to lead them. They do want me to speak to them. And then that just grew and grew and grew and grew to where when I sit down and I talk about Walter Payton Man of the Year, I don't talk about this pride that I raised money or got this trophy. The coolest moment of Walter Payton Man of the Year was when I sat down and got told I was nominated. I sat down and they showed me a map of Los Angeles. And this makes me emotional to say, but there's 40-something places, and they've created a video for every place, and it encompasses all of L.A.

1:28:20And it's all these people going, dude, thanks for coming here. Thanks for what you did. And you start to realize like, whoa, in five years, like you've been to all these places and you've had this kind of impact on people. And like, I never would have thought I was worthy of making an impact on people. That makes sense. And so that is what was like the greatest part of that, because you realize, man, how many people that you're like, I look at it like when I walk in a room or on a team, I'm trying to touch as many people as I can, like hug, love, dap, whatever. Like I just want to walk in a room, make sure I touch everybody.

1:28:52And then when you look at a city as big as Los Angeles and you start going like, whoa, we've been able like Molly and I on the Rams community team. Like we've been able to be all these places in five years. Like this is cool.

1:29:02Dr. Michael Gervais:How cool is this to be a part of this? You're so emotional. I know that you're working to keep it all in right now. How do you hope the next generation of men will do emotions? I think it's really important that you are willing to share them. I think for me, I think it was something that was probably harder when I was younger because it always felt like weakness. It's less now. Like I've had more moments that have cried in front of people who have been emotional ever in the last few years. And so I think as you get older, you just learn to like not care about that part of it as much as when it's coming from a place of being sincere and real.

1:29:36I don't think it's age. I think it's growth.

1:29:38Dr. Michael Gervais:You could be an old fool, you know, and but if you travel the path of wisdom, you know, you end up at some point going, ow yeah like it's actually really fantastic what happens when you work from the emotional you know amazing i think you actually speak with more clarity and conviction and and also to think of it as like i say this in sports all the time right like think of how these things relate when you really talk about like my boys ask me how dad how am i gonna get better x y and z and i'm always like the sooner you release the restriction of failing and just go full speed and fail, then you'll be able to figure out and feel what full speed failure feels like.

1:30:20And then you can adjust, right? So it's the same concept. Like if you just allow yourself to release your emotions, then you'll be able to get them out and figure out what you need to do with those feelings. And that's the hardest thing for people to like do is to just trust. It's like a trust fall. It's just to trust. You can just fall, right? Like Sean McVay and I, we talk about this all the time. I'm like, what comes first? Vulnerability or trust. It's vulnerability. Like, and every time I go speak at a group of people, I'll say, everyone, raise your hand. Who believes vulnerability or trust?

1:30:50Like, I'm going to name them. You tell me. And then I go, okay, now, you know, a lot of people will say it's like you trust somebody and then you decide to be vulnerable with them. Okay, cool. Y 'all all came here, right? Yes. Okay. Y 'all travel to be here. Okay. Can each one of you tell me the name of the pilot who flew the plane you got here with? No idea. Okay. How about the taxi driver? or maybe the Uber driver. Do you know their name? I'd have to go look at my app. Okay. So did you trust them and then you got in the car or were you vulnerable and now you trust that person, right? Like that is the reality, like being vulnerable first, which is releasing emotion, going full speed is how you develop trust.

1:31:34And so if you look in your life, the people that you're actually close with are the people that you found a way to tell them that thing you'd tell nobody else or to release that emotion you would never release to anybody else and then guess what you get to do by that you create a circle like i'm in a circle of guys that i don't even know personally that i know jay glazer had an article read about this but there's a bunch of

1:31:52Dr. Michael Gervais:us that are on a text chain together and jay glazer was on the pod a while back yeah and we have this text chain with phelps and the rock and like all these people i'm like some of them i've met but like some of them i'm close with and some i don't have no idea but it's like this chain where everyone's been vulnerable at some point. So now we all just are vulnerable with each other. And it's like, wait, we don't even hardly know each other that well, but in this circle, we've been vulnerable with one another. So now we trust one another. And so it's like, that's an amazing thing. And it's something that I think is really powerful.

1:32:24And my wife tells me this all the time. You alluded to this earlier about how you think about yourself and how I've kind of always lived. And I share this and it's cool because I've shared it with Sean McVay at times in his career, where he's felt down, he's let the team down or different friends of mine who are going through something and they feel like they've let their wife down or their family down or whatever. But my wife would always tell me when I have these moments where I'd come home and be like, man, you know, I failed. Like I'm gonna get fired. You know, like I do this in Thursday night football, I'll come off the set and I'll text her and be like, they're going to fire me tomorrow.

1:32:55You know, and she's like, baby, you're so good. Like, what are you talking about? But she'll always like, when she realizes that I've gone too far or in front of the kids, I'll say, I need to get in shape or I need to do whatever. She'll always be like, stop. She'll be like, don't talk about my husband like that. And it's like, that makes me emotional. But I've had to say that to guys in life. And it's like, it's amazing how hard it hits them. Cause it's like, no, no, no. Like, let me tell you what I see in you. Like I've, I've heard Sean say this earlier this year about players, but it's the four greatest words you can say to somebody are, I believe in you.

1:33:29I look at it like it's the flip side of that. When somebody doesn't believe in themselves, it's not just tell them that you believe in them, tell them what you see in them. Like that's the most powerful thing you can actually tell somebody. It's like, no, no, no, no. Stop talking about how you're talking. Let me see, let me tell you what I see in you. And that gives them this, whoa. So there's a different way to see myself.

1:33:49Dr. Michael Gervais:Andrew, what a gift you are to others in your life and what a gift you are to our community to share the darker side that you have gone through and maybe still flirt with and are working through and the hope you have for yourself and others to be the best version of yourself and to help people do the same. Tremendous gift. And it is not lost on me why you have had so much success. You have traveled emotionally the distance to depth and heights to be able to have the clarity that you have. I think you're incredibly open to ideas and experiences. You are just neurotic enough to go to the edges. You are not agreeable for the sake of being agreeable.

1:34:28Dr. Michael Gervais:Like you think about things. You also are likely now such a positive influence in other people that they gravitate to you. And so you take all of that with the interest in becoming your very best and the sharp edges that it's required and the kind of curvature of the round curves. Like you got a fullness to you that I'm rooting for you and your family. And so thank you for sharing you and your path in the hopes of making our community better. I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much for letting me come here. Yeah. Next time on Finding Mastery, we're back with another Ask Me Anything episode. You brought thoughtful, honest questions about performance, relationships, and navigating the challenges of everyday life.

1:35:14Dr. Michael Gervais:And once again, Mike sits down with Momentos CEO and former NFL player Jeff Byers to explore them together. From navigating big life transitions, creating a sense of community and defining purpose when you're not quite sure what's next, this conversation offers practical ways to move forward with more clarity and intention. Join us Wednesday, May 6 at 9 a.m. Pacific, only on Finding Mastery.

1:35:40All right.

1:35:41Dr. Michael Gervais:Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up.

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1:36:53Dr. Michael Gervais:Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional. So seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.