Why Most Athletes Break - And How We Didn’t | Brandie Wilkerson and Melissa Humana-Paredes

27:49And I'm crying as I'm saying this. Like just you opened the floodgates for me in that moment. And it felt like a huge release. And it just felt every day after that, I cried. Randomly.

28:01Dr. Michael Gervais:Wow. No idea why. I would wake up in the morning. I would be FaceTiming my boyfriend and I'd be crying. He goes, why are you crying? I said, I don't know. I don't know why I'm crying. I would be journaling and I would be crying on my paper. And they were like happy tears. Some of them were tears of fear. some of them were tears of insecurity some of them were like gratitude tears just everything it just opened up this emotion like moments I had never experienced in my life before I felt at the Olympics very cool and wouldn't have been able to feel that if it wasn't for like the people we were with very cool finding master is brought to you by David protein travel a lot at finding mastery and sometimes travel makes it tricky to eat well best intentions and then you're at the airport and then suddenly the only options around you are the ones that you'd rarely choose at home.

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31:07Dr. Michael Gervais:This is not about like you have to cry to be great. This is about you have to know how to work with emotions to be great. All of the emotions even if you need to break a chair. Or the wall. Or who broke what. No one's supporting violence here but you know. But there was a moment. And so those are the edges. If you can't go to the edges I don't think you'll ever find out what you're capable of. and if you play it tight and safe and small you can get good results in life but never the extraordinary oh yeah Brandy what were you experiencing after the loss to Latvia going into the lucky loser give us your state of mind and what what tools did you rely on maybe that you had practiced with the team and and you're you're a student of mindset and you you do the inner work I've I I follow you enough on Instagram to know that you're on that.

31:58So what skills did you rely on at that time to turn it around? Because Mel was not playing well. You weren't playing well as a team. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I know. That's the truth. I'm joking. I'll take it on the chair. I'm just joking. Okay. I'm sorry. I felt terrible. No, no, no. She sold me that too. I'm joking. I was coaching great. Yeah, no mistake. That was handled. This sport is brutal. You are 100 % dependent upon one person, your partner. You could be playing lights out, and if your partner's not there with you. Now, I'm not saying that's the case, because it wasn't. But what were you experienced there, and what tools did you rely on to turn it around and be ready for the lucky loser match?

32:43Were you mad? Oh, yeah, I was furious. And that's the thing I have allowed myself to practice, is to truly feel all of my emotions fully. And so if anger was the thing that came up, I remember just screaming like, are you fucking kidding me? Just like ripping things apart. I don't know if we talked much. We did a little bit. But it's like I'm not here to like check up on you and do what you're doing. We're here to connect to make sure that we both understand what the next move is. And we're both good. I have full trust in your process as you have in mine. So it was just more of what I felt was more of a check-in.

33:19Like we're still good. I'm pissed. I'm gonna go do this now. That's my emotions. That's where I'm feeling. But I think my entire life I've been so used to working with so little so that if it's just one point that we have that kept us in the game, that was enough for me to be like, we're still going to win this. And so it was just another opportunity to practice making something out of nothing. And it was exciting to me to do that. It was freeing when we finally did get to a calm place. And I remember sitting on that bench before the game because we're so ill prepared. We didn't even have close to change in.

33:56We had no like foresight of being in this position. And you're like, should we do some video? I'm like, no, we're just gonna like go for this. And everyone loved to watch us play that game. They saw us have some fun. And I appreciated Marcio's directness and setting the tone in terms of like, no, I'm not even gonna like talk to you about this. It's so outrageous. Do what you know how to do. And so that was a good reminder of that as well. But I think the thing for me that was most important and the thing I used the entire game was just, I already knew where we were going to end up. So it was just getting there.

34:33And as long as you give me even one little breathing space, I'm going to take it and run. So I think that's what I had to lean on. Yeah, if I can chime in, what I saw in those moments after was like guttural emotions from Brandy, like a whole spectrum. And after both of the games that we lost that we believe truly we shouldn't have lost, I saw her really feel in ways I hadn't really seen before. And it was done in a way that never made it feel like it was pointed at me. It was genuinely her emotions, how she was feeling these and how much it meant to her is what I saw as well. And again, it was done in a way that was so respectful of my experience as well, but also she was going to feel this her way.

35:17And I thought as a partner, that was like a form of leadership and self-awareness that I'd never really seen before. Because yes, like I was, I felt like I was letting the team down. And this was my partner who was standing by my side, regardless, she was going to feel the depths of the disappointment and the anger of what was happening but she was never going to make me feel bad for it. She was going to allow me to move through it and just know that she's still with me and that was something that I think I didn't know I was capable of having in someone and feeling in somebody and so to see this kind of progress and evolve heading into the lucky loser game I felt so much freedom because of that and we were our backs were against the wall like there was no way we should have maybe felt free or like relaxed or jointed like together but we were and that's testament again to these two to us what we've done together um and so like i think very few teams if any would have been able to survive

36:20Dr. Michael Gervais:what we survived and make it out alive i completely agree with that and we've seen some heavy situations i'm looking at marcio both in volleyball and otherwise i completely agree with that i was having a conversation with our producer kevin earlier that i don't think that um i don't think many teams could have done what you've done and yeah it was radical and I think Brandy you led with all of that emotion and you there was a leadership moment in that in so much as you didn't fray the relationship the teammate the bonding there's leadership in that and I'm not sure how you did it because we were not in the room just you two and I think the 24 months that we had done a lot of work, you were able to not get sucked in.

37:04Dr. Michael Gervais:Oh no, it's like I'm belowing it. I'm the reason I'm the, it's me. It's me. I'm now I'm looking at you now. Like you were able to maintain your boundary and you were able to maintain your boundary. There was a nice Venn diagram, but it wasn't an enmeshed relationship. Technically what that means is when one person wobbles, the other one wobbles and you, you did not do the enmeshment thing, which is awesome. and I'll never forget what you just said Brandy I'll never forget how you just said it and what you said that you're used to working with very little that is like not only just powerful it's honest and that's I didn't know how you did it well done oh thanks yeah well that's you yes y 'all that's I didn't have to have very little with y 'all so that's the beauty of it Well, that's interesting.

37:55It is a testament to the work that when the stakes were the highest and the pressure was the highest, that you felt free. Because that's what Dr. Mike and Marcio would want, is that they want you to bring 100 % of your talents to every situation. And you can't do that if you're not playing free.

38:13Dr. Michael Gervais:You know what Marcio did that, and I'll never forget this. This was going into, I can't remember when it was. And you probably say it all the time, but it just hit me differently. My RCO just says, go wake up your senses. Go wake up all of your senses. And you've probably said that a million times. And it just hit me like the simplicity in go out there and be more animalistic, more like you don't need to use your thinking brain because you have, of course we all do, but like just go wake up your senses and let the true information come in and you'll know how to respond. Do you remember him saying that?

38:49Vividly.

38:49Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. But I also remember this was heading into the, this was our do or die match, right? The lucky loser game. I remember when we were getting ready for our team meeting to go over the game plan, which we normally do. It's part of our routine all the time. We go over the game plan and then we go warm up. And he comes into the change room and says, there is no game plan. We are just going to play free. We're going to listen to our instincts. We're going to play like we know how to play. You know how to do this. And we're just going to, we're just going to go. And that was both like really terrifying for me, but also really freeing, which was something that I hadn't felt yet at the Olympics, was that like kind of permission to feel free and to just like go with what I'm feeling on the court rather than what I'm thinking.

39:31I'm overthinking this play, I'm overthinking that play, and I'm not living in the moment and like going off of what my gut's telling me on the court. And so when you said there's no game plan, awaken your senses, be in the moment. And we know we've talked about being in the moment before, which we train it. But when you're in those moments sometimes you forget and so that was a reminder that I definitely needed to hear and heading into that warm-up was so different and heading into that game was so different and I actually remember in right before they were going to call us out before that game it was nighttime it was like 10 p.m and that's when they light the Eiffel Tower.

40:03Dr. Michael Gervais:The Eiffel Tower was in full beauty. Oh my god it was gorgeous. Wasn't that like yeah honestly before you finish your story wasn't that like magical it was like indescribable the whole the whole underneath the eiffel tower unbelievable i don't know how any world games can ever compete with what you where you guys got to compete no and where we got to you know coach from like i don't know a world game that can do that like it's hard to talk magic that's historic but i remember in that moment they also play these songs randomly before they call the teams out and there was this one french song i guess that they were playing in that moment and you kind of like took a pause and your senses were like woken up I guess because you're like this is one of my favorite songs and I had never heard the song before it was I don't even know what it was and she's like this is one of my favorite songs and you know normally we're kind of locked in we're talking game plan before we're about to go on the court and here we are like looking at the twinkling lights of the Eiffel Tower we're like holding each other's hands.

41:05I was like getting teary-eyed listening to the song. Yeah, like listening to this song. And it was just so different than how we would ever operate right before a game. It was just so natural and so like emotional. And everything changed, I think, after that moment for us, for the team. So you win the lucky loser match. You survive in advance. So there's probably more relief than joy in that with everybody there. And you get into the round of 16 in the medal tournament. and your reward for that is playing the number two ranked team in the world the americans cloth and nuss who heading into the games probably were the most consistent team on the world tour and so you approach that game and brandy you know just watching from the stand you could see that you wanted to physically dominate the game and take over so tell us about your mindset and approaching that game and maybe what you witnessed the adjustments that you made it certainly on the other side of the net it seemed like you had a strategy on who to serve and what to do but just take us through the emotions of that game because when that game but then that match you turned a corner and you were gone.

42:13Dr. Michael Gervais:Body Mastery is brought to you by Fatty 15. Okay let's talk about longevity. Longevity is much more than simply adding years it's about maintaining health and a zest and a vitality and enhance performance as you age. And that's why I'm excited about Fatty 15. It's an award-winning supplement. It's powered by C15, which is the first essential fatty acid discovered in over 90 years. Okay, so C15, it's a geroprotector. What that means is it helps to slow biological aging by strengthening your cells, basically protecting them from damage. You can think of it like kind of like a 401k for your health, where you're investing in cellular quote unquote resilience.

42:53Dr. Michael Gervais:And I dug into the research on the relationship between C15 and heart health. I love what I saw. Fatty15 is on a mission to optimize your C15 levels to help you live healthier, longer. Get 15 % off your 90-day subscription starter kit by heading to fatty15.com slash findingmastery and use the code findingmastery at checkout. That's fatty, F-A-T-T-Y, 15.com slash finding mastery. Start investing in your long-term health today. I think when we first found out who we were playing, I have so much respect for that team and they were playing well, but there was absolutely no way I was losing that game.

43:36Like, there's no way. We already knew we saw each other. We kind of had a laugh because we're like, of course this would happen. We absolutely deserve that. and we were completely prepared so knowing that we were locked in and that like I don't know what you would have to do to take it away from me but it was not going to happen so it was exciting to

43:55Dr. Michael Gervais:go in with that energy and what is that what does that sound like in your head probably pretty vulgar is it yeah yeah it's aggressive no effing way that yeah right like yeah there's just no it's like I know myself too much I know what I'm about I know what I can do like the nobody has something on. Like I can't even imagine that someone coming in my way. It was just like so not even in the realm of reality. For the listener I know who I am and I know what I'm about. That's the biggest rock to get in the container because once you really know who you are nobody no situation no circumstance can ever take it away and you've got that big rock in the container.

44:36Dr. Michael Gervais:You know who you are you've done that work and it feels like it's almost a throwaway comment but it is it is the comment yeah yeah and then you know what you're capable of right so but it's the first big rock that i listen when i hear you say that i go yep yeah yep and that is there's no easy path to know who you are that's just time under tension you know an honest reflection and and rad that's right yeah okay sorry for the interruption yeah so it's just time to use that it's a circle back it's just time to use that energy those years and years of how it worked plus i didn't have to worry about like mel not being or my team like i have a team i don't even have to worry about either so it's like i i have the freedom to just be everything that i know that i am and have so much like come into that and just have this beautiful photo and challenges is what i crave it's what i've known my whole life to then something that i invite into my life because of how much goodness has come out of it.

45:39Heading into that game, I was not my most confident self at the beginning of the Olympic Games. It was just not going the way that I had foresaw, that I had planned, that we had prepared for. And so I was kind of going through this emotional turmoil and dealing with some of the doubt and some of the insecurities that I had battled for a good chunk of my career, but it was on display at the Olympics. And it would have been really easy for me to pack it in, to be like it's just not my week you know like it's i like i just can't show up the way that i want to show up and it would have been so easy for me to just back down and like give in and if i if we look at the game we actually went down in that game pretty early i think it was like 13 8 was the 39 39 14 9.

46:23Dr. Michael Gervais:yeah 14 9. game one game one and like it could have been so easy for us to just accept that accept the defeat like coming back from that after you know a start to an olympic games, a start to a tournament that we were not feeling our best in, we were not playing our best. And I think very quickly we started to realize, okay, we're not, I'm not playing my best right now. How are we going to troubleshoot this? Like, what are the things we're going to reach for that are going to help us get over this? And it wasn't like the tangible skills. It was the intangible skills. It was like the relationship.

46:56It was the vulnerabilities. It was the honesty. It was the heart and the grit that we're going to get points. They're going to be scrappy points. They're not going to be beautiful volleyball points, but we're going to get this win somehow. And we're going to get these points. We're not going to give up. And I think you really saw that in that game. But before the game started, we were in the change room. It was just us two. We were talking. And for me heading into that game, I anticipated playing this team at some point during the Olympic Games, but like later, semifinals, finals, not the first round of playoffs.

47:26And so in the change room, it was heavy. It was heavy emotions. I think you broke the silence and you were like, okay, how are you doing? Like, really, how are you doing? And I was like, I'm nervous. I am nervous. And I think you opened up that space for me to be honest, because we were done. We were done like, okay, things aren't going well. Like we're accepting that. And you were like, I have played out every possible outcome of this game. We win in two, we win in three, we lose in two, we lose in three, like all the different possible outcomes. I have visualized how this could go. And there's only one outcome that wins for me.

48:00And I remember you said that and I was like, I knew which one it was, but it still took a minute for me to like get on board with that right away because we have played that team like 11 times in our history. And it was like, maybe they, it was like 50-50, maybe they were up 60-40 or something. Like we would go back and forth with the win. So it was really like, I think the last time we played them, they won, right? So it was like, we weren't going in with like the numbers on our side, but if anything that the Olympics taught me was that The numbers don't matter. No amount of history, no amount of rankings, no amount of seedings, no amount of side-out percentages or whatever your numbers are, it didn't matter.

48:36Those were probably the lowest numbers of my entire career, and we still managed to walk away with some hardware. And so I think going into that really, I was going in with a little bit more reservations than I probably should have. But I think what that game taught me and the work that we did together, the work that we did together, our debriefs and our pre-game preparations taught me and instilled more of that belief, that trust in the work that we had done for the last two years, that showed in that game. I think you could see it pretty clearly.

49:09Dr. Michael Gervais:There's another option that we would train for and hoped for, which was, listen, we arrive at the game and we're just completely smooth and i have confidence we train for confidence so i'm listening like yeah i didn't have confidence i doubt and so that's real too and how to work through the prickly sticky kind of hard parts of the experience is what makes people champions in their life whether it's volleyball or business or relationships how do you work through the sticky parts, the parts that are not easy to work through. So you relied on your partner to say, look, I got it. I got you like loosen up or whatever it might be.

49:52Dr. Michael Gervais:But you had to bring that forward. And that's where I think a lot of people struggle is they don't bring it forward. So they're playing this other game. No, I'm good. But inside it feels like a whole different universe. So that's the part that I'm like, very cool. The not bringing it forward part is like huge, not just for yourself and your own experience, but I think as a teammate, like vice versa. But just because we were talking about it, if you're going through that, what you were going through at the beginning of the tournament and you weren't being honest about being nervous about feeling all of these emotions, it would have been extremely hard for me to feel confident and be able to just focus on my game and do my thing.

50:33Because you can't connect. There's a huge disconnect. And whether it's like I see through it or I don't or whatever, it's just like another layer of distraction. And I think I had so much admiration and I was truly inspired by you and why I never felt any doubt about our journey because you were being so honest about it. If you weren't even being honest about it, then I'm like, we can't do anything with this. Like, it doesn't matter if we're last place. It's like we literally can't move on because we're not even in reality right now. And so it was so encouraging to know how difficult that is, how much courage it takes to go through that.

51:13Because I obviously went through that going into the semifinals and having my own moments of doubt. And that's a shit feeling. And I'm like, well, she's not hiding it. I'm not hiding it. That's not our culture. We're not doing that. And we're winners. winners will be honest and will do the hard thing. So that shows again that this collaboration, right? You brought that, you brought something, we brought the path, we brought the environment. I felt every time conversations goes, I felt that we were so prepared. We knew it, everything that was coming to us. We knew it, we had the skills, we had the tool belt.

51:54And there was both of you that decide to use the right tool.

52:01Dr. Michael Gervais:when you heard mel say that she rose to the occasion so my philosophy is people fall to their level of training i think both of you see it differently which is that no we rise to the occasion and i'm not sure how you see it but i'm wondering i i do want to hear how i know how you see it brandy i'm curious how you see it but before we go there coach what do people in your mind rise to an occasion or fall to their level of training? The training that is impossible for a human being match the level of pressure and importance of the Olympic Games. You can try it, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna get more caffeine, I'm gonna eat more, I'm gonna train more.

52:45That is absolutely impossible. Three Olympic Games right now and then all three of them were totally different, completely different. So raised to that level, one, you're spending too much energy. You're not focused on what matters. It's not going to work. But if you fall to your training, how you do things, how you communicate, what's the planning look like? It's not that you're safe. You're already ahead of everyone because they're trying to be focused on something that doesn't exist. Totally. You know what? I actually do really agree with that, except for, I think, kind of what you mentioned, there's no way to mimic the experience of an Olympic games or like the level of that pressure in training, no matter how hard you try.

53:28And so while I do believe, yes, 90 % of what you train will show up. And that's kind of like the basis. That's how you build trust in the process. And like you trust your body of work a hundred percent, but there are those moments that you, that are untrained that you, you've never experienced before, like at an Olympic games. And you really see what side of you is going to show up and you see sides of you that you haven't seen before because you weren't able to train them in the moments where you were training them. So I think that's what I saw in Brandy, especially when I said those moments where she rose to the occasion.

53:57These were moments we had never found ourselves in before. And these were moments that we were experiencing like this level of like grandeur, of just pressure, of the holistic emotional human experience that I think really pushed us to limits the Olympic Games that we hadn't felt. And so I think there were moments where you just had to like see who was going to show up and who was going to quote unquote rise to the occasion, which is why I said it like that. Yeah.

54:25Dr. Michael Gervais:And I think it's perfect. What's cool is like each person on the team had a different philosophy going to the games. Is it going to be the biggest game ever? Or am I going to treat it like just another game? And we talked about this. And it's the naive approach is we're all going to have the same philosophical approach. Oh, yeah. That's naive. What's complicated is to know yours and embrace yours. And then when you wanted to change yours, be open to that too, right? Which was a bit of a risk. And that's way more complicated. And the full team had a conversation like, wait, you two athletes are seeing the games entirely differently.

55:04Dr. Michael Gervais:And how are we going to manage that as a team? That's my question for you. That's what we've ever done. They have opposite answers. Yeah, right. I know. Yeah. I want to take a second here to tell you about a morning routine that I've been using for years. For me, it's a great way to switch on my mind, to ready myself, to take on the day. So before I check my phone, my emails, market updates, or text threads, I choose how to start my morning. That's always in my control. That's always in your control, too. This is the same morning mindset routine that some of the world's top performers across sport, business, and the arts are using.

55:42Dr. Michael Gervais:The best part, it only takes about 90 seconds to do. So just head over to findingmastery.com slash morning to download the audio guide for free. Again, head to findingmastery.com slash morning to get your morning mindset routine. Okay, there's like naiveness thinking we're all gonna be the same and there's the level of okay, we're different. But then there's a level of like you didn't even get that. What do you mean? I feel like it switched between us. That's right, you guys… And so then it was like managing that. What about that third level? I'm still trying to figure that out. We tested you.

56:23Dr. Michael Gervais:But be concrete to the listeners like what are you actually talking about? Okay. Well, I definitely agree. And I'm glad that we talked about how we were going to approach the games. I think that was a very pivotal conversation. And to not have the naiveness, the thinking we're all here doing the same thing, especially with our different personalities, I think it reflected on you wanted more of a like, every day I show up like this is just a regular day for me. This is what I do. nothing changes nothing crazy here like just playing volleyball the same exactly and I'm like I want this to be like a magic this is a biggest stage like are you the one like the biggest moment huge emotions fireworks every day like but I think we realized halfway through the games that things were kind of switched where you were going through such beautiful like ups and downs and like became very big moments.

57:21And I, and that was the first time I cried at the Olympics, realized that I felt completely numb to the entire experience. And I was crying because I wanted so badly to feel big emotions. I wanted this to feel bigger than I could imagine. And I wanted to feel like unprepared almost because I was like, I want to see something new happen. I want to go into the unknown and everything felt regular degular so i was like oh i'm getting so mad because i'm like are you kidding me i'm in turmoil and you're in turmoil

57:57Dr. Michael Gervais:yeah so the anecdote here like is that is the the higher skill for all of us is to accept the moment as it is and navigate according to whatever it is Yeah, 100%. I think that's the talk you had with both of us. Yeah, I knew myself that if I had more people being like, oh, this is such a big game, oh, this is such a big moment for you, it would overflow, and I would be overwhelmed with that. So I, and I told my team, I was like, we'll just keep it chill. Meanwhile, Brandy was like, I need more. So I don't know how you guys navigated that. But I remember after our pool play where I was like, gosh, I don't think this is serving me because I don't feel like I'm actually allowing myself to experience the magic of this opportunity we have.

58:40and experience the Olympic Games and everything that it means. And it is big. And I think I was suppressing myself and like not allowing myself to live in the moment because of my philosophy. And so I think it was holding me back from like who I could be on the core and who I wanted to be and like what I could offer to my team and just like to myself. And so I think after that, I started to change my philosophy a little bit and be like, no, I'm just going to accept it. The nerves, the butterflies, everything, whatever I feel, I'm just going to let it in because like I think having the wall against it was it was just not going to work.

59:14I love that. Mike I have to ask this of both of you she's saying that in the height of the Olympics she was questioning her philosophy and so much of the work that you do with corporate executives and athletes and students at USC is is how to build and articulate a philosophy a competitive philosophy a personal philosophy. So if that's your anchor, and those evolve over time, as we become different people in our lives, you don't expect them to evolve and change at the Olympics with everything on the line. So how do you coach and advise an athlete who's questioning her philosophy under the most pressure ever?

59:56Dr. Michael Gervais:You can imagine, like, what would you do, you know, if you were my shoes there and it's I don't have a script for it but it is feeling and talking it through and you know it's two adults like okay addressing here's the lego set like you want to take it apart do you think you can put it back together like is it just a couple pieces we're changing and it was it was just a conversation with her about what does she want to do and I was going to back right and I think that's probably the more important piece is that so I come from I'm trained classically as a psychologist with a Carl Rogers approach and he's a humanistic psychology and so Rogerian approach is to have an unconditional positive regard for the person and I'll say those words again an unconditional positive regard for the person so my fundamental belief is that everything she needs is already inside of her and this is her life this she's the one walking across the tape to get into the sand and i'm going to examine and push and pull and and and hold up a mirror but i my fundamental approach is what you need was already inside you and so what you need what you were saying is this isn't working is it is it okay what do you think can i shift this yeah like this is your life and so we talked about like well what are the pros what are the cons it didn't sound like that but like let's examine it and then be a great teammate backer yeah you know that's kind of what it is but it's holding up a mirror because i already i fundamentally believe that each one of us um everything we need is already inside of us that's the aperture idea so when the aperture widens your your your honest true self emerges with all of the skills that you have built over time technical from marcio physical from strength and conditioning psychological from a life experience plus the specific work we did and then that emerges to meet the demands of the moment eloquently and gracefully and when you can do that I don't know that's to me that's a living masterpiece beautifully said but you don't have time for the Freudian approach to let her discover these herself that was a shorthand conversation I don't know how long it was like 20 20 minutes or something yeah but it's resting on two years of like real work and so like special operators Marcia and I can be like look at each other and be like like it's just a look and when you have that look it's there's a shorthand like oh yeah I know where it's coming from.

1:02:39I think interesting, and then bring to the listeners too, you guys have no idea how much debrief Mike and I, Mike Fialpa and I had every single time that we had a practice or every single time that we had a game or interactions or breakfast. Kind of like, again, figuring out what that Lego would be if I need to change here, changing there. And then for a coaching staff, having like that bounce wall was fantastic. Like coming out of practice, like what happened today? Really? One is here, one is here. Like what? But now he's here. Like Mike, what do I do? Do I say something to this? And then like we were kind of going back and forth and trying to find, you know, that unconditional support, but not getting off the reality.

1:03:33Right. So the reality is this. but like we need to find that balance and then again i can say that you guys bought in all the time and then when you felt challenge like you guys like this is a challenge okay got it

1:03:49Dr. Michael Gervais:oh you know i'm glad you brought that up because it's support then challenge yeah and that was a thing that we all agreed on support then unconditional positive regard is the support i got you whatever you're gonna like we're gonna we're gonna we said it you said it day one which was like, look, after the games, we're going to be friends. And there was radical challenge. It happened in our sessions and it happened when you were on the beach. And then during the games, like there was one practice. I was like, damn, he's really giving it to us. And you know, everyone knows when it's happening. And he's like grunting.

1:04:21Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah. And so like that, that level of challenge, iron sharpens iron. You can say a lot of different things. And I don't know how, I can't remember. Were you guys like, damn, or was it like, okay good we needed that because you were not performing in practice the way that it should be scripted and i loved every part of it every part of it because you did not back down my my what we calibrated was that like you see them as badasses and like wake that dragon up it was it was great so your your your take the way i remember that i remember distinctly this debrief more than anything because you made a point to bring it up and said, what did you think of Marcio's energy?

1:05:04And I remember in the debrief, Marcio, you kind of came at us a little bit and you were kind of like upset with us a little bit in like our kind of our attitudes of how we were experiencing that practice. And I remember in the moment that it was happening, I was frustrated, like in the actual practice. And then in a debrief, when you asked how it was going or how I felt after, I loved it. The athletes give you the signs what they need. It might not what you want to do as a coach. It might be not what the player wants. But they give you the sign. So we'll go to the gold medal match. You're up against the number one team in the world for the past two years, Ana Patricia and Duda.

1:05:49And let's talk about the mental preparation and the match itself, which again each one of these matches is a story in itself the first set you're in control most the way and towards the end in the in the late teens they make a run and they they steal the first set so take us through that match and the emotions you were feeling and then we'll get to that one point where they had to play the beatles to calm the whole crowd down but let's go through

1:06:16Dr. Michael Gervais:the match itself they didn't have to calm the crowd they had to calm one out we're gonna get to the real story we've heard we've heard you know the public explanations but but take us through the mental preparation of coming on the court uh the the the three sets and and then we'll talk about finishing second but i don't want to diminish i don't ever want to diminish what you accomplished because it was truly astounding the story we've spent time talking about it but the arc of the story is is what you know raises the hair on our arms that's why we watch sports so just give us the insider perspective of that match?

1:06:55I felt aligned. I mean, that's where we'd seen ourselves so many times. And I have leaned on my mental fortitude and emotional belief and manifesting the world that I live in. And I've never really subscribed to other people's opinions or realities. So this was just so great to see it all align what's actually happening in real time and what I've believed. I just remembered the energy between Melissa and I is mostly just like, it's time just to take it all. It's just time to get it done. We've gone through so much. We have so many tools and, uh, and we were prepared to do that. I remember waking up the morning of the gold medal match and it felt distinctly different than every other morning.

1:07:49Every other morning felt like heavy. Every other morning felt like I woke up with butterflies immediately in my stomach. The morning of the gold medal match felt a little bit different and you I'm happy you said this because you mentioned free freedom and free and that's kind of like my ideal competitive mindset. That's like my space where I feel my most self on the court when I'm just free and like kind of feel very innate and it's like a free flow and I kind of had that energy that morning and I remember we always did our team activation before and we would sit down at the end and we'd go through um Mike would guide us through like a visualization and a meditation and we'd kind of go around with our team and talk about you know how we're feeling if there's anything we wanted to bring up and I remember I kind of brought it up where I I was worried about how I was feeling kind of like maybe a little bit more calm or like a little bit more free and I was worried that it would breed like complacency and not because we were in the gold medal match which is one of the biggest games I've ever played in my career but that we had reached so many milestones along the way to get there and also if I looked back a week prior to where we were when we were barely making out of pool play and I had so many doubts in my head about who what I was able to accomplish and who I was showing up as to know that I could come from that place and make it all the way to the gold metal match operating that way it gave me actually like a sense of peace that we overcame so many obstacles and here we here we are and so I said it to the team that I I and I was scared to say it because I didn't want them to think that I was like giving up because we already got a medal and it was like wow like we don't need to try any harder because we're here and that we're just to like play super free or whatever like we already have a medal.

1:09:36Dr. Michael Gervais:Meaning if you win you win gold if you lose you take silver. Right. So there was already a medal guarantee. Right. Right exactly. And so yeah I would kind of even myself kind of contemplating like what that feeling meant when I woke up like okay you know we're here I can be free. That was different than how I felt every other game before the Olympics and I was like I don't know how to I don't know how to comprehend this feeling. Everything's too good. Like, what do I do? I feel great on finals, though. Yes, and it's so funny. I think you said, there's no other option but winning. I remember that, and it stuck with me, and it hit me hard as well, because that was also just like the energy I knew where she was at, where her mindset was at, and like what we really believed we could accomplish.

1:10:20And I remember your response to that was like, whatever happened, nothing changes about how I feel about this team about you about what you're capable of regardless of the outcome of this game and i remember that was also very comforting so i had like all these different perspectives coming in that morning of the game and i was like wow this is like a whole experience before 10 a.m yeah right and now we have to go play the biggest game of our life at 10 p.m yeah to sit with all these feelings all day yeah and then honestly the game is a blur for me still There are moments I remember, there are moments that I still don't like thinking about, there are moments where I am proud of myself for.

1:10:59I haven't watched the game, it's one of the only games in my entire career that I've never rewatched and I probably will watch it at some point but I haven't yet. And then maybe it'll bring some clarity or some sort of like closure to that moment but I still haven't watched it and so the game itself I don't really remember a lot of. I remember we had a big lead in the first set, I remember we won by a lot in the second set and then the third set's a blur but um yeah it's a blur for me too yeah yeah I remember I mean going into the game I was not feeling my thousand and ten percent but I was telling myself I was so we're trying but um I remember the first set uh being up and like feeling like this is the sink like that we play at and this is what's going to take us to this gold medal no sense of like oh we're good but it was like the signs are there I'm always looking for signs always and so then I remember the ending of the second set of first set and I still have this very heavy feeling that like I was the reason why we lost that first set I still can't tell you exactly why but I think I have I know and it haunts me I have two distinct points that was the first time I felt my body like disassociated from my mind just because I was struggling with my back so much.

1:12:20And then I really felt it in like two points, like where I couldn't execute what I knew I could, what I envisioned, like right before you do it here, you see all these things, like everything's aligned for the whole Olympic games, two weeks, this point, I don't know what happened, like back gave up, everything felt weird. And I was like, what was that? What the fuck was that? And so then I was like, it's fine, fine, shake it off. It's fine. Like you'll get back into it, do everything you need to do, get into that mindset again. And then it showed up again. And for some reason, I've decided that's why we lost the first set, which is so unreasonable.

1:12:52She decided. I'm taking ownership. Nobody said that.

1:12:57Dr. Michael Gervais:When you hear that, Mel, what do you hear? I've never, it's been three months since the Olympics, and it never once crossed my mind that that was an option. because for three months I have been feeling the weight of that like I and I almost started just crying right now because I that's been weighing on me so heavy for a long time when you said that it almost just like I feel lighter I think we're both even though we experienced we had different roles in that game we both experienced it in a similar way but different we both felt the burden of what that first set meant to us which is crazy and thank you for sharing that because I feel like I can breathe yeah no we've never talked about it I guess I've never told literally anyone so exclusive but I definitely feel like you should know that and I um it was hard for me to just in my own game in my own world to have that happen because it doesn't happen very frequently and then to then sit back the time out and lose that and that set and just be like what and and then the way you showed up the second set I was like front row seats to like this rodeo because it was crazy um it's pretty special it was so special to see you just play honestly the best volleyball you've played like in the year in the season who knows you played great every freaking game but that game was extra special especially from what you've come from and I was more than happy to just like watch this happen and and literally could care less what happened after because of how important I think it was for me as your teammate to see you go from where you started to where you were like the amount of courage and just like that's crazy shit I think people need to know that story and so so great to be like right there with you watching that and so that helped me to get out of myself with everything I was going through so that's why the third set such a blur because I was like I feel like we were back to square one at that point I feel like we won I literally tell people gold sometimes like I literally refuse it was a respectable game I will allow that best game at the olympics oh yeah in all the sports but the two sets i remember for two different reasons and um i'm glad you know that you were badass that set because i know you've said it yourself and you should be saying that screaming it out to rooftops but um i commend you for that journey it was amazing to see thank you for sharing that well both of you can sleep because i thought i was the worst coach in the world so you guys can fire the coach because you guys were up 15 to 8 and we could not score a point all the way to the 21 and then i blame myself on that one if we would score like one or two after the 15 we would be okay so you guys are good you just you know hanging tight it's too funny but uh it was a fierce game i obviously am there to win and i wanted to feel every emotion of it and we were in a tough spot at that point i remember just feeling like oh i can't get anything together and then i get this ace and i'm like yeah no i'm back like and so if that radiates to everyone and she wants to take it personally then it it did um but that's why i'm totally she's totally justified in her reaction for the next point when she stared through the net after an error which is why i was especially because usually i don't pay attention to the other side but like it was like an error and then she cheered through the net and so i was like wait a second first of all you didn't do nothing and then yeah you made them stay this is also like a really long time to be cheering you're staring down i think she was like staring you down or something which don't do that mama bear i got three younger siblings i'm like who are you talking to right now that's my partner um and so then when we got into it um i get if she if she thought i was cheering through that she's allowed to react with that if i think she's cheering through that i'm allowed to react like that and i do wish that um it didn't get calmed down i love the moment for the moment it's fun and um we can manage all the emotions no matter what happens but i would have been very curious to see it continue that way because i have total faith in our team being able to uh control that like i think i would have gotten angrier and i play well when i'm angry melissa you're super like locked in you're already killing it so i don't think you would have been fazed by anything she would have been super locked in i think and patricia also loves that energy so it would have been a great battle but dude I'm like even if it's one percent less like I'll take that like it's the gold medal game that's all you'll get so it's like I don't know with the miss serve right after I was like there's room there's a little like breathing room here like let's jump on it so there was a lot of things going on for sure I did not think that that moment would go as viral as it did that was insanity wasn't a great moment it was hilarious it was you guys it was intense which is not the volleyball spirit it's almost every other sport but not and um and i leaned over to marcio i don't know if you remember this and i said oh she just woke up the dragon and i was like this is where it's going to turn i think we're down by two or something like that right and i was like it's gonna or maybe three i was like it's happening and the game's only in 15.

1:18:28Dr. Michael Gervais:yeah and i was really excited and then there was this beautiful moment for the crowd you already said it where it was a beatle song and they which one was it i forgot now uh was it imagine they put imagine over the yeah yeah how's it go go ahead you're the singer you know imagine there's no hunger imagine imagine all the people living life in peace everybody was like singing it and it was a true olympic magical moment and i was like

1:18:58but i knew the dragon wasn't going away but there was a there was a moment to capture that you

1:19:03Dr. Michael Gervais:created out of like that agitated state that you're in and um it's cool yeah you know it was cool yeah i thought it was fantastic and i and as a coach again uh not big fans of officials and referees i think they overreact today they're like oh yeah the referee came in between them and then um you know i think uh conversations you know through the net already happened before But I blame the officials for what happened. I think everything was totally fine and then escalating, pushing you back and forth. And I was like, wait, let's get the dragon going. The dragon was out. Mike was like, this is it.

1:19:45This is it. You and my family are like, let's go.

1:19:49Dr. Michael Gervais:I think it might get missed what Mel did. Oh, tried to de-escalate. No, Mel, you came over. It was so reflective, intuitive. and you grabbed her hand during the entire thing. So you became in that moment, the grounding force on the court. This one over here, the dragon was coming out, snorting and breathing all the fire you can imagine. They, I don't know them, but they were swept into your moment. Both of them were, John back and forth and you started the whole thing. So you're in control and then you in a different way grounded the whole thing. You became the alpha holding her hand, calming her down or doing whatever you're doing.

1:20:26Dr. Michael Gervais:And I was like, both our side of the net is dominant right now in two completely different ways. And I don't think that like, I hope the listener can go back and just watch your hands and what you did under the net. It was one of the most alpha moves I've seen in a long time. It was really cool. That's so interesting. You say alpha. Oh yeah. That was the alpha moment. You had your alpha in a different way, but they were not in an alpha state. That's what it felt like. Exactly. It felt like we had control of the moment where Brandy was imposing and making a lot of sense in her imposition. And then I feel like I also was coming in in my own kind of softer way, but also letting them know you're not going to step on this.

1:21:09Oh, yeah. You weren't even trying to be like, Brandy, no. You were like, yep.

1:21:14Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah, it was great. Watch that back. And it'd be fun to just even have a conversation afterwards about what was happening for you. but yeah it was cool it was you guys were definitely in an alpha competitive state and so i've listened to mike say that the toughest finishes at the olympics are are fourth and second and knowing how competitive you are and you were so close um can you just talk about the sweet and the bitter as opposed to the bitter and the sweet because it's just for those who watched and went on the ride it was so sweet but watching you come out you know i think they only gave you like 20 or 30 minutes from the end of the match to the podium and then watching your faces on the podium just take us through that emotion of what it is like to climb that mountain to be so close i honestly think i'm still processing the emotions i don't even know when that will fully be clear for me but again so much of it is a blur like you said everything happened so quickly like the ball dropped i was expecting this massive celebration from the other side i don't even remember how we embraced i don't even i don't even remember a lot on it i remember sitting where i was standing i wasn't even sitting at our benches and then we're getting told all these different instructions we have to go do this media we have to go change and then we have to come back for the put and it was just there was like no room to like settle or to like comprehend what was going on i remember being like pulled by all these different people through this tunnel and then then we have to change and then we're back out there and then and then you're on an Olympic podium and so that span of time there was there were so many things it was like total disappointment and total like sadness a little bit of anger probably lingering from a moment and then also like pride and and And it's hard to describe how you can be all of those things at once.

1:23:11And there's no real word to describe how that feels. And then standing on the podium, again, like very bittersweet, but it was an Olympic podium that we said we were going to be on two years before. And we were on it throughout like incredible highs and lows, just in those two weeks alone, let alone the two years that we went through with incredible highs and lows. But yeah, we weren't hearing our national anthem, but we could hear and see like our team and our family and friends still there and like watching us accomplish a dream of ours. It wasn't the ultimate dream, but accomplish something to be so proud of making history for Canada in like three, four different ways and doing it together.

1:23:52I think that's what I can reflect on now and have it be like, fill me up, you know, like really fill me up. I think it took me a while to get there. I think it is hard, especially when you really believe you can win and that we really could have. Like we definitely, there's no doubt in my mind still. So I think that's the hard part. If it was a blowout, okay, maybe we were a little far from it. But because we were there, we played like lights out. I had one of my better games of that Olympic tournament, and we still lost. So that was hard for me to also like take on the chin and look at myself in the mirror and be like, I played really well, and it still wasn't good enough.

1:24:30Like there are all these kind of emotions that I settle with. But the one thing that Marcio said in our debrief, I think a month after the Olympic Games, that kind of helped me bring things into perspective was, you know, he's been to so many Olympics and he's worked with so many different teams and has gotten a medal, an Olympic medal with each of his teams that he's been to an Olympics with. What he said was, like, I wouldn't trade the silver medal for a gold if it meant doing it with different people, doing it with a different group and to me he was like we are we are the gold medal like this team this is the gold and so I think that for me allowed me to kind of like find peace in our journey and in that moment and like look at my silver medal and be able to be like so proud of this thing because of who I did it with and so yeah there's still like there's still some some angst about the result even though I know we talk about we're more than just the result but um I wouldn't change it again if it meant doing it with different people.

1:25:31Dr. Michael Gervais:Yeah, very cool. I'd agree that the suite is just how much of a human journey it was and how it spoke to so many people beyond them remembering if it was gold or silver. That's incredible. And we set out to create a legacy for our country. We did have a historical result. And I was extremely proud of just being able to make it that far. being authentically and holistically myself, hair, nails, attitude, friends, no friends, what I'm doing. Like I did it the way I said I wanted to do it. And that was a goal I had set out for myself before partnering up with Melissa. So to still have the results also come through and validate that you can be exactly uniquely yourself was amazing.

1:26:18The not so sweet was pretty staggering for me. It's still something that haunts me here and there. I find myself still compartmentalizing to deal with that because I've lived my life just relying on my able to, I guess you say, frame or create a vision for myself and where I'm going and then follow through with that. To have integrity to have like the courage to do it and to take the risks and then to have it follow through like things usually align at some point and I can see that and feel that and feel that and then it's like someone taking this way you see life and the way you see yourself and your your religion and your mantra and just ripping it from you because we didn't win as much as that's what I said and that's what I thought and that's what I worked to and and it was like gut-wrenching to now be brought to my knees like maybe you don't have that skill maybe you aren't that maybe and it's like this questioning of my entire philosophy on life was brought up and that was hard to deal with I think on the core it was just rage just only rage and I remember going up to my family after and I just could not smile I could not look I could not say anything I was just like stone face couldn't even wrap my head around that this was actually over and that we actually didn't do it and I remember my like youngest brother grabbing my face look at where you are right now look at where you are and like kept screaming like look at what you did look at where you are so then I finally kind of like shook out of it and then like was able to kind of receive a lot of love and a lot of like passion and inspiration and be able to see all the pieces that came with it and just have so much deep gratitude for that that we could enjoy the podium moment because there was no other choice like were you gonna be bitter up there like you gotta enjoy that and it was the only time I had to do that um so I tried my best to um show face and it's a it's a lot of like emotions um also just like just the journey of representing Canada for me is also very interesting and I just wanted it to just be so much better than a silver even that sounds crazy to say but this is what I wanted and uh I'm like a little bit stubborn I don't like when I don't get what I want like I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do to get what I want but it was okay I mean there were so many ups and downs for about a month, usually goodness.

1:29:07And then I think after a month, I literally got depressed for about two weeks. That was really hard. I think I almost called you like three times. And then that was hard, but luckily I have so much, so many great support systems and people that I could talk to and really just be like, let it go. And then like nowadays, I'm just like still finding the goodness in it and just believing in the larger purpose of why it happened the way it happened. I had asked to be shown what was going to happen and what truths were going to be told and what path I was going to lead after this. And I knew that that was going to be a life changing moment for me.

1:29:47I was ready to receive that. But I think a part of me still was ready to receive it the way I wanted it instead of just truly ready to receive. so I'm trying to lean back on that and it's been really game-changing though and I have felt so much love and home and safety than I ever have before and for it to come out through the game so it's very special so it's thanks to you guys too there was so much that helped me gain self awareness body awareness and all this practice and learning you guys have taught and I think one of the biggest ones was labeling labeling has helped me so much just to be able to figure out my emotions and then like if you are going to be feeling all sorts of stuff just like understanding what was going on was very helpful and I just find that what makes it worth being so vulnerable is for all the emotions that you can't label and that you can't put into words and that is just so deep deeply deeply fulfilling and worth it for anyone that's debating uh vulnerability or not Yeah.

1:30:53What's risky. Can I just put a fan's perspective on this? Someone who got to go along on the ride. What a gift it was to watch you and your families and your boyfriend, you know, their stake and investment and wanting it for you and how much they love you and made us all feel part of, of, of Brandy's block party and, and, you know, the smiling assassins team. it was something we'll never forget and as Mike's taught our class and you know coaches we've talked to these matches at that level at the elite top of the world they're so hard to win and sometimes the game ends and you're just not in the lead it has nothing to do with who you are what you stand for how you inspire us in fact the story of resilience and how you came back from near elimination is what we'll remember more than the color of your of your medal but as your um friends and fans we are just so enormously proud of you it's been a privilege to to do it to know you and to follow this team it really is a joy to watch them play thank you thank you thank you guys next time on finding mastery we're joined by georgia stsetis a model turned entrepreneur who went from quietly panicking over hair loss in his 20s to building a billion-dollar company helping millions protect and regrow their hair without the side effects.

1:32:21So what actually stops hair loss and what doesn't? Join us to find out on Wednesday, September 24th at 9 a.m. Pacific, only on Finding Mastery.

1:32:33Dr. Michael Gervais:All right, thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up.

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