Breaking Through LinkedIn's Noise: A Systematic Approach

0:00Scott Leff:We serve global companies from top consulting firms and B2B companies to some work with large non-profits.

0:06Andres Figueira:How much time did it pass until you got your first customer?

0:09Scott Leff:Three or four months. Part of that was understanding where the market was at the time. At a certain point, you have to narrow your focus, and then that's where I think it starts to become more of a business. How did you market yourself to be able to get those customers that you wanted? We had to define ourselves in the marketplace as we're not a traditional marketing agency. We don't do PR necessarily, but we are subject matter experts. We understand your business. We understand your audience. We understand the topics that you're writing about.

0:41Andres Figueira:Hey, everybody. Thank you for tuning in. My name is Andres Figueira, and I'm going to be your host for the day. This show is brought to you by the Global Talent Company, helping fast-growing teams hire exceptional remote talent from Argentina, South Africa, and beyond. We connect companies with world-class professionals who bring skill, reliability, and a global perspective to every role. And just for our listeners, we're offering an exclusive 10 % discount on your first hire. All you need to do is visit GlobalTalent.co, click Start Hiring, and mention the podcast listener discount when we reach out.

1:14Andres Figueira:And today, with me here, I am speaking with Scott Leff, founder of Leff, a content marketing company that creates content that moves a needle and strategies that move audiences. And with that said, Scott, how's it going? Welcome to the show, man. Hey, good to be with you. Thanks for having me on. Oh, no, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. And Scott, just so that we can get the audience a bit more in context as we start the episode, would you be able to tell us a bit more about your background, what created you and motivated you to found LEF, and in your own words, what LEF does? Sure.

1:46Scott Leff:It really all started with music. I was a musician in a former life and moved to Chicago to pursue that. When I was focused on music, I took a two-day temp job at McKinsey & Company in the mailroom and ended up getting hired on in the mailroom. And I figured I'm going to stay there until my music career takes off. It should only be, what, six months or so. and I stayed there for a while, made my way to different jobs and actually music took me to the publisher of the quarterly, the McKinsey Quarterly at the time, which was the Journal of Management and Economics. He was a musician, so I got to know him through music.

2:23Scott Leff:We played guitar together in the office and when I was ready to make a shift to more of a business career, I said, can you give me any advice? He said, we have an opening on the quarterly, why don't you join us? Very serendipitous and I spent seven years with the McKinsey Quarterly, learning about business publishing, professional services, a range of industries that they cover. And I eventually made it to managing editor of the Quarterly, left McKinsey to go work for Chicago's Olympic bid. The city was bidding for the 2016 Olympics. You might remember Rio 1, no hard feelings, but that exposed me to a whole different kind of marketing and communications.

3:02Scott Leff:I'm trying to reach a variety of audiences from general population to businesses to the Olympic movement. And to do that required reaching out to people on different channels with different formats, live presentations, official bid submissions, more of a campaign style environment. So when Chicago unceremoniously lost in the first round of the competition, I had to think about now what am I going to do? And I wanted to take what I learned at McKinsey about business publishing and combine it with the type of communications and marketing to different segments that I'd been exposed to in the Olympic bids.

3:38We've grown to about a 30-person agency.

3:41Scott Leff:We serve global companies from top consulting firms and B2B companies to some work with large nonprofits. The through line there is that they all have audiences they want to communicate with. They have stories to tell. They have experts who have great insights. And our company's job is to be a translator, really, for them to ensure that the audiences they want to reach understand what they're selling, why they have something compelling to say. And so then that spans everything from writing and editing to graphic design, to multimedia production, to some content strategy. And so it keeps things interesting for sure.

4:19Andres Figueira:I love how the different experience that you gathered along the way was what ended up motivating you to create. And Scott, in terms of once you decided and conceived the idea to go just branch out on your own. And until you got your first client, how much time spanned in that segment of your life? Like you decided to create left. How much time did it pass until you got your first customer?

4:42Scott Leff:That's a good question. I think like a lot of people, when they're finding their way through it, for me, reaching out to people and having conversations was informative. So I started to tap into my network, the people I've worked with at McKinsey, the people I knew from the Olympic bid. And as I was talking with them, some doors opened. And so I think it was probably about three or four months of having these conversations. Part of that was understanding where the market was at the time. This was early 2010s. And I started the company at a fortunate time because there were lots of potential clients who were reaching beyond their in-house staff.

5:23Scott Leff:and they were looking for additional writing help or design help. Whereas previously they might have preferred to hire people internally, they became much more comfortable with reaching out to freelancers. I started as a freelancer for a couple of years until I got busy enough that I realized the math doesn't work anymore. I need to bring on people. And then it was a slow roll from there. I think any founder who suggests they have a master plan for how this is going to go is probably changing what actually happened because there are so many twists and turns. You just don't know how to talk about yourself initially, what people are going to pay you to do.

6:01Scott Leff:So you say yes to everything. Okay. And at a certain point, you have to narrow your focus. And then that's where I think it starts to become more of a business because you have to be thoughtful about who your audience is, what their needs are, how you communicate that instead of being all things to all people, which I think at a certain point is no longer a recipe for growth.

6:22Andres Figueira:I understand what you mean. And that actually leads to another question that I have is that once you began and you started, when you determined what you really wanted to be like your niche industry or with whom you wanted to work, how did you market yourself to be able to get those customers that you wanted? It was definitely a process.

6:40Scott Leff:And I think that it probably took three or four years of a little bit of trial and error to start to understand where we were playing in the marketplace and how we fit in. One of the things that was challenging for us is that most companies of a certain size have a marketing agency that they've retained. Many of them have a public relations firm that they work with regularly. And as you probably know, when a company has a trusted vendor, they'll go to them for more than just their expertise. They were starting to go to marketing agencies for content creation or public relations firms for some thought leadership.

7:20Scott Leff:And so we had to define ourselves in the marketplace as we're not a traditional marketing agency. And we don't do PR necessarily, but we are subject matter experts. We understand your business. We understand your audience. We understand the topics that you're writing about. And so that took some time just because anytime there's not an existing niche in the market or a definition or a point of reference for people, it can take a little bit more time for them to understand what you do and why they need it.

7:46Andres Figueira:Scott, you mentioned that right now the whole endeavor that you have with the agency, it has become into a 30-person team, the one that you're managing.

7:55Scott Leff:Yeah, yeah, that's right. And we were, things really grew quickly once COVID hit because a lot of our clients couldn't travel anymore. the way that they were going to communicate with their current clients and prospective clients was through digital media. So lots of reports and articles and white papers and videos and things like that. And so we grew quickly. Anybody who's run an agency and has grown quickly understands that there are benefits and then there are some challenges that come with that. And I think like a lot of companies, Peloton comes to mind. During the pandemic, they grew very quickly, right?

8:32Scott Leff:And And they were scaling to please the shareholders and investors, thinking that the habits of COVID were going to continue indefinitely. And obviously, once people started getting outside again, they didn't want to spend time at home on their stationary bike if they didn't have to. And so the market changed. I think a lot of companies that we serve and a lot of agencies like ours then had to adjust a bit to say, OK, we are scrambling to take care of this huge spike in demand. And that was a challenge. Now that's receded a bit. We have to build different muscles and think about where those both areas are.

9:07Andres Figueira:The confinement that COVID created, it really, it created this bubble in which remote work and things that you did at home, everything saw a spike in how much it was used and bought and consumed. But then after the doors opened and everybody was free again, I totally understand how that just dropped because it's only natural that people are going to want to go outside. And Scott, my question is then during COVID, when everything spiked, when you had more demand, and now that some time has passed, are you just working with companies inside the U.S.? Or are you guys expanding or have you expanded outside of the United States and are working with international companies?

9:47Scott Leff:The big clients we have are international to begin with. So they'll have teams around the world. And so we expanded during the pandemic as well. we have a small team in Europe. And so that helps us. Obviously, sometimes time zones are your friend. Other times are a real challenge. I've been on calls at one in the morning to accommodate clients in Australia or in Asia. So that's a challenge. Having people in Europe obviously helps just because it elongates the day a bit. And what's interesting, I think, is for international companies, the ones we serve are focused primarily on North America and in Europe.

10:28Scott Leff:But some of the big growth areas are the Middle East region and Asia. And I think they're looking for ways to ramp up their marketing. And so we're trying to figure out ways to serve them in that way.

10:39Andres Figueira:And also, Scott, another question that I do have is in terms of your team right now that you mentioned that you're 30, are you looking to expand or have you found a sweet spot where everybody is working appropriately with the workloads and how much you're receiving as demand? Are you okay with 30 or are you planning on getting bigger?

10:58Scott Leff:When early in my career with this company, about five or six years in, I was talking to a former client, really smart and experienced and thoughtful. He'd started an investment fund. And I said, what are your aspirations? And he shared those with me. And he said, what do you think of your company? I said, it's all about growth, isn't it? And he said, maybe you want a six or eight person agency because that's a good lifestyle for you and you can serve clients and be really hands-on in the way that you want to. And it made me take a step back. That was the first time I'd ever considered, why are we growing?

11:34Scott Leff:Why do we want to grow? And for me, it's always been about growth isn't just progress, but it opens up the types of clients you can serve, the types of engagements you're involved with the skills and capabilities that you're learning or bringing to it. And ideally, I think our next goal would be a 50-person agency. And then as you get to these different milestones, then it changes your perspective a bit. Things that you hadn't considered as being a possibility all of a sudden are, or you have a different vantage point, or the size of your company allows you to have different kinds of conversations with clients.

12:12Scott Leff:And so that's why I'm excited about Versillian.

12:14Andres Figueira:And Scott, I just got to know, how many clients do you have at the moment? Like, what's your demand that you're managing?

12:21Scott Leff:Like a lot of agencies our size, you have your handful of core clients, and then you have a number of other clients that may have started as a one-off project, but you're trying to nurture into more regular clients. I'd say we generally run between 15 and 20, but with a core of six to eight major clients. And then, as I said, others that we're developing at any given time. And in this business, a lot of it is your network and referrals. You do good work for a client and maybe somebody on that team moves on to another business. They remember you and they realize they need the support you can offer.

13:00Andres Figueira:And in terms of when you're working with your clients and you're creating these campaigns for them and strategies? What have you found that are channels that work for you or that you feel nice talking about and the fact that you really appreciate how they function for your guys?

13:15Scott Leff:Yeah, the difference in B2B marketing as opposed to straight consumer marketing would be the sales cycles are longer. It's a lot of relationship-based selling. Many times these companies, they may be selling a product. If you're, say, in healthcare or med tech, You're selling equipment, but at a certain point, it's the trust that you're building with your current and prospective clients that matter. And so that requires time and it requires consistent communication and outreach. And when we're thinking about working with clients and the audiences they're trying to reach, we're considering where are they in that decision journey?

13:55Scott Leff:Are they early on in interest? Is it about awareness? is a consideration where they're looking for a specific product or service and they need to ensure that the investments they make are going to be the right ones. And so when we create content, we're supporting those conversations. And one of the challenges is that it necessarily has to take place across a bunch of different channels, not just a company website, not just one-on-one sales or attending conferences or forums or things like that. But then it's also the typical digital channels you'd assume, like LinkedIn is obviously big for B2B marketing.

14:32Scott Leff:And what can be a challenge is that there are so many touch points involved in that. Say, if it takes from initial contact to closing the sale or booking engagement, it may be 18 months. And so then trying to determine what contributed to that sale, What was the tipping point, really? It can be difficult, but from our experience, we know that people need to establish credibility and authority with people. They need to show that they understand their client's business and the challenges they're facing. And then they need to be able to present solutions to them that are going to move the needle for that client.

15:10Scott Leff:And the content we create highlights all of those things. But I can answer your question another way, which is that we think about anything we produce as part of an ongoing conversation campaign. If a client is just putting out a, they're writing an article and they want to put it out there, that's not a campaign. That's not really going to have the impact that they want. They need to be thinking longer term, how do I support each point of this conversation? How do I start to move a prospective client into that area where they're going to convert? And so we've found obviously LinkedIn gets a lot of focus because in theory, everybody you want to reach is on LinkedIn.

15:52Scott Leff:And you can tell what their job title is. They have lots of analytics so that you can create targeted campaigns. If you want to reach, say, the CIOs of the Fortune 500 companies, You can figure out a way to reach them on LinkedIn. The challenge is that what a lot of people use LinkedIn for is not necessarily, they don't want to be over or flooded with solicitations from people they've never met. They don't want it. It's not really for cold calling. It's for networking and reputation building. And so one of the things we see companies struggling with is that apparent contradiction of LinkedIn has everybody you want to reach and they have tools where in theory you can reach them, but a lot of companies are not able to break through and actually make those connections and have those conversations with prospective clients.

16:45Scott Leff:And so we've done some research. We're getting closer to how to solve some of those things, but it's a recurring challenge that we're seeing.

16:52Andres Figueira:No, I can only imagine. And what you mentioned is so true because LinkedIn has everybody in their database. Everybody has a LinkedIn profile to demonstrate their achievements, everything they've done, and just to have visibility. But nobody really wants to be receiving a dozen emails or in-mails from LinkedIn just trying to sell you something or show you or a service. And Scott, have you found a way in which you and your company have been able to cut through the static of so many people trying to do cold calling and cold outreach? And how are you able to really get through that and get people to actually bite and contact you?

17:27Scott Leff:Yeah, I have to credit a friend I have who I worked with in a former position, but who is at LinkedIn now. And I had lunch with him because I said, we're fielding all of these questions and calls from clients. We understand they're struggling. And I said, a lot of people think that with AI generated content flooding LinkedIn and people on LinkedIn posting less about business and more about personal things. Here's my work anniversary. Here's a conference I went to. That kind of thing. He said, a lot of people feel LinkedIn is as bad as Facebook now. It's basically turned into Facebook. And he said, no, I disagree.

18:05Scott Leff:It's far worse than Facebook. He said, and part of the problem, again, is that people aren't using it the way that it was intended. They turned it into a tribute to my son on his 16th birthday, which is nice, but that's not business, really. And so he said, there are a few things that you can do. if you're going to post, you need to post on a more regular basis with insights that matter. It can't just be personal announcements. And he said, I guarantee you, if you post for 30 days straight, then the algorithm is going to take notice and it's going to start boosting your content in people's feeds.

18:42Scott Leff:And so one of my colleagues said, I think you should do the 30 day challenge. I'm like, oh, I didn't sign up for this. 30 days, that's a commitment. Not sure I want to do that. But I said, okay, if I'm going to talk about this, then I should probably roll up my sleeves and actually do the experiment. And so I didn't post, I started in November, I posted for 20 days. 30 started to be far too many because I went from posting rarely to all of a sudden, every day, putting something out. And my son actually reached out to my mom and said, is dad okay he keeps posting about dinner today my daughter who's in college said all my friends keep seeing your posts in their feeds what's going on and so i explained to them so that they knew that i hadn't completely gone off the rails but what i found at the end of this 20 days it actually worked impressions were up and engagement was up but because of those things the algorithm was starting to feed my posts into people's or put my posts into people's feeds not when it was the day it was published, but sometimes a couple days after or a week after.