Building Communities That Sell: GUURU's Curation Method

0:00Guru is a company whose community advice solution empowers brands to build meaningful connections across the digital buyer journey. Helping brands to connect their online shoppers with their fans, with their passionate customers in real time. So it's an authentic peer-to-peer exchange with somebody that has a high expertise in the product. How are you leveraging AI and how has that changed your product decisions? It will scan the conversations and then when there is an interesting product opinion mentioned, it will then put it into a small content piece and you can add this to your product page.

0:37Not only you have the reviews, but you also have those rich experiences that are shared from the community people.

0:53hey everybody thank you for listening my name is andres figueira and i'm your host for this episode i'm currently located in buenos aires argentina and today we're talking with tonio mayor before i present to him i just want to mention that this show is brought to you by the global talent company, connecting top remote professionals from Argentina, South Africa, and other places in the world with leading tech companies worldwide. If your team is looking to hire world-class South American or South African talent, head over to globaltalent.co and see how we can help. Hey, Tonya, how are you doing?

1:27It's a pleasure to have you here. Hey, Andres, thanks for having me. Doing very well. How are you doing? I'm doing very, very well. I'm happy that we were able to have this episode. we've been investigating what Guru is. And since you're the CEO and co-founder, we can't wait to hear your perspective and all your experience through this whole journey. And before we start with the questions, I just want to give the audience a bit more context. Guru is a company whose community advice solution empowers brands to build meaningful connections across the digital buyer journey by connecting online shoppers with a community of loyal customers for authentic real-time advice.

2:05So with that said, Dono, could you be able to tell us in your own words what Guru is, what you guys do, and just give us a bit more context? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, you read that probably from somewhere, from our website. Of course. Yeah, but in essence, it's really, Guru is helping brands to connect their online shoppers with their fans, with their passionate customers in real time. So what it means is, if you go into an online shop of a brand, or a retailer, and you have a little insecurity when buying or selecting products, or maybe you bought the product and you don't know how to set it up, then you can actually talk to somebody in life that is very knowledgeable about the specific product and can share their experience with the product.

2:55So it's an authentic peer-to-peer exchange with somebody that has a high expertise in the product. Now, maybe you don't need that because you just did a few searches and you know everything that you want. But when it's a higher-priced product or you buy a bike or a ski or whatever, then sometimes it's really good to speak with somebody to move away the uncertainties that you have. and also it's quite fun to exchange with somebody that has the same passion right lots of our clients are in the sports area or in the do-it-yourself area so those will be people that maybe have the same passion over the weekend the same hobby and they can exchange in a very in a very friendly basis okay now i understand that concept and i must say it's pretty new to me here because i'm in argentina and we don't have any brands that do that or that provide this sense of community that you guys are giving but me as a as an avid snowboarder i would love to get the the like the opinion of somebody who has already used the board i'm looking to acquire or whatever piece of instrument i need of that i believe is awesome okay and tonio what can you tell me about how it has been building this community um is there anything you wish you knew before you started or Or how has that journey been?

4:20Yeah, I mean, for the company in general, I think, yeah, I mean, you can obviously in hindsight, you would do a few things different. So we started in 2018. So it's quite a couple of years ago already. and we you know the story started because we said okay you know there is when you go online and you want shopping advice okay there is maybe a chatbot or there is a team of people that try to sell you the next best product or whatnot but you don't have a really good experience shopping experience that you sometimes have when you go into a good offline store you know when When you go into a store with a brand where there is the brand DNA nicely represented, there is a good sales representative, you have a really good experience.

5:12But online is much more difficult for brands to offer that. And so we said, okay, let's try to use the power of the clients. We know forums, customer help, customer forums that exists 20, 30 years ago. But this is now those forums 2.0, right? So it's technology that is built for the brands to put it alongside the digital customer journey wherever they want. So when you go to the online shop and you're insecure, brands can offer that type of advice. And then it will do a lot more than just helping the client. it will give the brands a lot of insights through data on how they can improve their product line, how they can improve their presence on the shops, and so on and so forth.

6:02So we kind of took that initial idea and then tried to build a lot more value around it. And one thing I would do different is that there was a moment in our story in the company where we kind of said, okay, the AI and the chatbots are getting very strong now, and maybe there is no more humans needed at all, right? So we questioned whether the product can actually survive. And we were kind of, you know, thinking about changing or pivoting. But then, you know, one advice I can give is just, you know, if you have a vision and the product, then, you know, stay firm to that. Of course, not blindly, but we then realized that this is actually a big differentiator, even in today's world, because brands want to differentiate themselves, not just with the best AI, because that's what everybody ultimately will have, but with what really represents their brand.

7:05And that's their loyal customers and fans. That's their community. Of course. And the thing is that nowadays with AI getting so popular, I understand that people are used to these new AI agents, these bots that they reply. They seem almost human. But as time passes, I feel that the human touch becomes more valuable each time. It's like we kind of miss that human opinion or that human warmth that you get from somebody else replying to you online instead of just like an AI bot that's always going to be happy and everything's perfect. So I totally get that. And did you guys ever, like, as you mentioned, that you were almost close to pivoting, did you actually do any pivots to the idea?

7:49Like, what was your biggest pivot you made since you launched the company? Yeah. So what we did initially, we were the value proposition was much broader. So, you know, we said, OK, it could be anybody having any question that we connect with with a user. and there was a lot of customer service type questions as well, which is really not something where you absolutely need to have a human expert. You can also get an answer very easily by maybe a chatbot or even look it up yourself. So we pivoted, I would say, much more into a pre-sales area or let's say in the use case that I explained. So when you shop something that can be before you become a client Or it can be you shop an additional product.

8:35You maybe have already bought the board, but you now want the helmet or the goggles or whatnot. So when you're in that type of setting, then it works very well. So the pivot was more to focus on that type of journey. And with that, also, we changed, of course, the messaging and the target personas in the companies. Because before it was maybe the customer service guy or the experience guy. And now it's much more the head of e-commerce that we talk to. you know that type of adaptation. Okay, okay. Now I totally understand that. Antonio, could you maybe guide us through your aha moment when you actually realized that peer-to-peer advice was something that could work at scale?

9:18Yeah, I mean, the aha moment. So you have probably several in the journey. The first one was when we started, you know, I'm based in Zurich. It's Switzerland so far away from you, but it's work. I mean, it's a very nice city. I'm not sure if you've been here, but what Switzerland is typical for is it's very small. So if you have an idea like this, you can obviously you find maybe one or two clients, you know, through people that are friends. But then you need to validate whether it's, you know, just some friends that buy your product or whether it's a real idea. And so we went quickly to Germany because that's the biggest market in Europe and behind the US, the biggest in e-commerce, at least in the Western world.

10:08And the aha moment was, OK, this is something that really hits a nerve and we could actually start winning clients. Because before you have this, you kind of, I mean, in my case, I met my two future co-founders over the internet and then we brainstormed some ideas. And then, you know, it's like a project where you don't really know, is that going to be something real or not? And I think with the first clients in a bigger market come this first validation points that is your first aha moment. I get it. And another one which was interesting was when we had these pivots that I was talking about before.

10:57We thought about, you know, what do we need to change in order to adapt with AI? We had some turnover in the team, you know, because they were asking themselves, OK, what actually is the strategy of the company now? Are we going to become more of an AI company or are we staying a community company? And so the aha moment was really that it's absolutely critical to have a focus as a startup or as a small company, because otherwise you're immediately going to lose people and you're going to distract and everything stops working. So that was for me really important to realize that it's better to, you know, So straight focus on something and try to execute this with 100 % power or conviction, so to speak, than to for too long try to have options open.

11:51Okay, yeah, because later then your energy, your assets, even the whole workforce is dispersed between several different goals. Well, it's much better to keep the ship in line to the main goal. okay and in in our previous uh like we did some investigation about guru about who you are also and i saw that you're now in 22 language regions which is very surprising but we do want to know is have you noticed any difference with how cultural communities communicate online um it's certainly certainly differences in terms of the the language that they you know Some cultures may be different in terms of language, but in general, in all of those language regions that we managed to scale, we saw the same dynamics at play, really.

12:45Which is that if you're in Argentina or if you're in Switzerland or if you're in the US, you tend to have brands that you love. You talked about snowboarding for yourself, so you may have your favorite brands or two. and if you want to share your knowledge about that brand and somehow be in the community of that brand, then that could interest you and then you get rewarded for that. So if you go online and you share your knowledge with somebody else and that's helpful for that person, you will be rewarded for that sharing of experience. And that's, I think, a very nice way of bringing your fans closer to the brand.

13:30And for the fan, it's nice to be close to the company that you like and love and you share the passion with other people. And I would say those dynamics are pretty language agnostic. I mean, we've seen that working everywhere. It's true. It's true. And has there been, I understand that users communicate with other users to provide their opinions on the products, but has there been any difficulty with convincing brands to let the customers talk directly between each other? Yes. So that we observe frequently when we talk to brands is like, you know, the natural reaction is, oh, but what happens if they recommend somebody else?

14:08So maybe they're not a happy client and they will talk bad about us. You know, but I understand where that's coming from. That's like when you have these forums online and maybe, you know, you launch a product and something goes wrong and then you have a shitstorm or something like this. So this is what people have in mind. But this is not the same thing with us, because when we start with a brand, a brand will invite their happy clients, their fans, and then they will do a certification to see whether they have really expert knowledge for the products. And through that process, we can really identify the ones who are convinced about the brand, who are a fan and who want to have a real motivation to share their experience.

15:01So it's a selected or curated group of people that joins the community for a brand. So I think that's different than a forum. But I totally understand where that's coming from. What I usually tend to answer also is to say, look, you have in social media, be it in Facebook or in Reddit or somewhere else, people talk about your products anyway, whether you want to. And you can now decide to ignore that world or try to bridge that world and bring the peer-to-peer experience to your own digital real estate, which is you open up a little bit. but it also shows your prospects that you have a big community, you have the social proof, and that's a big conviction for new people to come and buy a product.

15:51No, it is. It is. And it's also, if I have a brand who has customers who are unhappy, but maybe they got certified, it's like you can't run away from the truth. I would prefer a brand that is more honest about the fact that maybe their product isn't perfect than one that's trying to sell me the best thing ever. And once I acquire it, I notice it. it wasn't what they sold me because that's the worst experience even more are you if you do if you research a product how do you do that do you go to social media you ask a friend or what do you do i am a avid review reader like i read the reviews of the products in the on the shop where i'm where i'm about to purchase it but i love to read actual human testimony so that's why i really empathize with this platform that you have because it really it like it strikes a note in what i feel i've been missing in my customer journey when i shop online because it is true that you get much better attention in in like retail stores physical ones of the salesperson with whomever um and tonio you mentioned that um you have like with the brands they have a certification that they make the users perform in order to be able to provide advice is this certification something that you guys provide the platform for the companies to create or is it something they already have from before?

17:07Yeah, no, that's typically done. I mean, it's within our platform that they can easily establish that and we help to do that in the onboarding. So how it typically works is that the brand will then do a post on social media or maybe they have a newsletter wherever they have their best engaging community. And then they say, hey, thanks for your loyalty. There is this new thing that we launch. If you want to share your experience and join this community, why don't you look at this? And then the moment that they're interested, they come through our platform and then run through the onboarding program, so to speak, where there is also a certification as part of it.

17:46The reason why we're doing this is because it's not like an open forum where just everybody can answer. Of course. This is a one-to-one advice that you get. It's like a life referral, but during maybe five to ten minutes, one-to-one conversation. And so it's a step up, I would say, from the help customer forums that you know. Okay, okay. Now, that's cool. And it's not like a free-for-all as, per se, Reddit could be. If you just post a thread there, it just goes crazy. Anybody can write anything they want. So it's controlled in a certain way. Yes. And given the nature of the platform and that it's a community advice solution, I imagine, Antonio, that you've seen thousands of customer conversations that they have between each other.

18:35Have you noticed any patterns that brands completely miss between how the customers talk to each other? Yeah, I mean, a common pattern really is that when, you know, it's a bit linked to what you said before. So brands, before they have this life, then they tend to be maybe, you know, a little bit afraid. And what happens now? And do we need to give scripts to the peers on how they should talk? And will they follow our language? You know, it's that type of thinking, which is typical because you normally are used to hire people and then give them a big training program. And we always say, OK, let it be.

19:16Obviously, you give coaching. You can give some guidance, but it's not like these are not your employees. They don't want to be scripted and stuff like this. So and then when they when it goes live, then there is usually a big aha moment in the company and usually a lot of spin internally. Have you seen this? Have you seen that? And then they realize that they have a totally natural way of talking about the company and the product. And they can often learn a lot. You know what language is used? What are the real benefits that the users really mention? Is it the same that are advertised at the top of the shop or is it different ones?

19:51That's often a pattern that we see playing out. Okay, okay. So nice. And I do believe that there's a lot of value in just having customers speak to each other. Brands must learn so much from the first-person testimony of each client that they've had. Antonio, in your past and everything that has been, the creation and keeping Guru up to date and everything that's happening, Do you have any mistakes that you made earlier on that you would warn anybody else about?

20:23Yeah, I mean, if you start a company, and it's probably not big wisdom, but if you start a company, there is a few things. I mean, there's a lot of trial and error, obviously. So you will make a ton of mistakes, and that's part of the process. But there is a few things where you should be careful, maybe more careful than I would. If I would redo it with some of those decisions, I would be more careful. One is the core team that you select. The first, let's say, five to 10 employees in the company. You won't keep all of them all the time, of course, but this is critical to build the culture in the company.

21:01And I sure made one or two mistakes there in the beginning that then had to be changed. which that's very costly and it's a lot of mess in the beginning. So that part. And then also the investors, right? When you're taking investors, if you're a venture-backed startup, which we are, I mean, now we're profitable, but we were taking money in the beginning. And there was a little bit of this, you know, okay, you do one funding round and then you jump to the next one. And it's basically all about funding rounds, right? And I think I spent way too much time in this and time that I could have focused on the product, maybe with less money at hand and maybe a smaller team, but you can actually focus more on the product.

21:49So that's I will probably do a little different. OK, OK, I understand. And did you feel, Tonio, that as you started to get more and more investors with these different funding rounds, did you feel that maybe the mission of the company was compromised due to more people externally joining and trying, I don't know, maybe to influence what you guys do due to the fact that they put, I don't know, X amount of money in it? Like, did you experience that? I mean, we didn't have, we never had like an investor that had a huge percentage of the company, you know, like there's some startups where the biggest VC has.

22:2330, 40, maybe 50 % of the company. We never had this situation. So there was not one person that could kind of influence the strategy too much. But of course, the more people you have in the investor pool, the more opinions you have. And that can be an advantage, right? Because it's diverse, but also it's not always aligned with the goals that you have as a founder. But I think that's part of the process to manage that. So that was okay. No, I totally understand that. Totally understand that. And, okay, have you had, Daniel, any weird or unexpected ways that you've seen customers use your platform?

23:01Like, has there been any out-of-the-box thinking from the customer? So, the latest feature that we developed is kind of, we said, okay, there is a lot of, you know, between those peer-to-peer conversations, there is interesting product opinions that are mentioned, like I said before. So the customer will have an opinion about your product in a very natural and authentic way, how it's articulated. And customers always ask us, hey, this is great content that we could use to showcase on the website for everybody. But it's kind of in this one-to-one conversations, but it's only visible to this other person.

23:46So how can we make that accessible to everybody or to many? So this was an idea that came from the clients really. And that made us then develop what we call the community content feature, which is, if you talked about Reddit before, it's a little bit like having a mini Reddit on your online shop because it will scan the conversations. And then when there is an interesting product opinion mentioned, it will then put it into a small content piece like you see on Reddit. with the person that has given the opinion. And you can add this to your product page. So when you go and search for your snowboard, not only you have the reviews, but you also have those rich experiences that are shared from the community people.

24:37And that was something that we developed directly as a feedback from the brands. Okay, that's so cool. And it actually takes me to my next question because you mentioned that there's a scanning of what's talked about and stuff. And I just want to know, Tonio, are you guys at Hulu? How are you leveraging AI? And how has that changed your product decisions when implementing it within what you do? Yeah, that's a good question. So if I just say in general for the company, maybe not so much linked to the product first, it has changed a lot, right? I would say all the core members have some way of how they leverage the current tools, be it ChatGPT or others, to carry out their work, be it to simulate some marketing copy or iterate on that front.

25:32For instance, HR is a typical one. So to produce any type of document that is required for HR, we use those type of tools a lot. So that's one part which I encourage every company to do. But I guess, you know, that's nothing new. And for the product itself, so how we use AI is that when a user goes into the online shop and then says, I need help for this and that, or I want to have a recommendation for that product. Then the AI will first scan the question and then decide, is this something for the community? Or is it maybe something where the community cannot really give in advice? You know, an example is you go in and you say, hey, I bought this product, but it arrived that it's, you know, dead on arrival and they want to have a refund or something like this.

26:23This doesn't have to go to the community there. We cannot add value. So we would then send this directly to either, you know, the internal team at the brand or maybe there is an automated service. So this kind of routing of the questions, scanning and routing, is one part that we use in the AI. And then the additional feature that I'm describing, this scanning, is also done with AI, obviously. So to spot those interesting community opinions and extract them automatically from the conversations. That's another example. Okay, okay. Now, I love it. AI is just crazy how everybody finds a use for it.

27:04But once you said you scan the responses, I'm like, I'm sure it's not a human. It was actually not that. No, we need to. There must be too many. It must be so many responses and conversations happening at the same time. And, okay, Daniel, what's one assumption about online communities that you've proven with what you found out with Voodoo that's completely wrong? There can be storms everywhere in those online communities. It's actually amazing. We probably had one or two instances in the entire, you know, and we have millions and millions and millions of those conversations on the platform where there is really an issue, right?

27:49Where you would say, okay, that was really not a good conversation where somebody went angry or whatnot. Otherwise, this was a big surprise to me that this actually works. Okay. Okay. So cool. And what is the three to five year vision for Guru from now, like from the present moment into three to five years? What do you see or do you expect the company to be? Yeah, so so the so in 22 language regions, that's mostly in Europe. I mean, there is some customers that use it in the US, in Argentina, unfortunately, not yet. Not yet. And so one thing is to scale that across the ocean now and to use the customers that use it in the US to win US clients and maybe also in Southern America.

28:44So to have geographic expansion, that's one thing we just start working on as we speak. I just came back from Boston last week. Very nice. So that's one big priority. And the other one is we want to play a more important role for brands to be mentioned in the AI search world. So it's a little bit of a different topic. But today, a brand has a big challenge, right? So when you do a search query in ChatGPT or in Google, if you do it in Google, you tend to have the 10 blue links that are coming back. And then you kind of start doing your research here. Now with AI, what happens is you get a summary already.

29:36And in ChatGPT, you can obviously fully converse with the bot. The effect that it has is that there is much less clicks of you going to the brand. So, OK, here is the link and I click and I go to the brand. And the brand has a huge challenge to reposition that they are mentioned by those tools, by ChatGPT and others. And what we saw is that if you do a ChatGPT search query, one of the most cited domains is Reddit and Quora. You mentioned Reddit before. Oh, okay. And this is because LLMs, as funny as it sounds, but LLMs are in love with human product opinions. They really, you know, this is the most important content for them because they want to see content that is authentic, done by human and very specific.

30:37It's what you said in the beginning. You know, it's boring to read the AI generated sentences. You want to have real human content. Of course. And that way they try to imitate that human spontaneity that they can't replicate. Because these large language models, they're just learning every day. Exactly. And we think that we have with our proposal here with the community opinions, we give every brand like a mini Reddit where they can be mentioned much more in those tools. And I think we can play an important role in their strategy there. So that's an exciting, I would say, enhancement of the value proposition that we currently do.