Electrolux Group CMO: When Consumer Testing Would Kill Innovation

0:00Nikos Bartzoulianos:Solving consumer problems through your products, services or what your brand stands for.

0:04Roman Kirsch:I think that was key. The one marketing truth that you learned early on in your career that turned out to be completely wrong.

0:11Nikos Bartzoulianos:Performance marketing. It's all about performance marketing, right?

0:14Roman Kirsch:Yes, it's important, but it shouldn't be done in isolation. The company has been around for over a century, right? So what excited you about the role there?

0:22Nikos Bartzoulianos:Electrolux has a fantastic group vision, which is shaping living for the better.

0:26Roman Kirsch:How do you select the right talent for your team?

0:29Nikos Bartzoulianos:A diversity of experience, of thoughts, of thinking is absolutely needed. What did you learn kind of in the process of running campaigns? It starts and ends with a consumer. I think marketeers and brand builders need to have a strong gut feeling to do what's best for the brand. Identify big ideas, but at the end of the day, those need to land well with consumers.

0:52Roman Kirsch:Hi everyone and thanks for listening in. Today I'm speaking with Nikos Bartzianos, a group CMO at Electrolux Group. Nikos it's a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much Roman the pleasure is mine. And we try to start always with an interesting intro question and maybe let's start with with the following one what's the one marketing truth that you learned early on in your career that turned out to be completely wrong?

1:16Nikos Bartzoulianos:Performance marketing it's all about performance marketing right and I wouldn't say I have a long career meaning the last 15-20 years but there is a lot of hype about performance marketing and i think today it has come at the expense of pure brand marketing and brand building uh so i i always have a critical thought when somebody says we we we need to boost our performance marketing we need to invest in low funnel activities we need to boost the d2c i mean yes it's important but it shouldn't be done in isolation yeah i mean looking at your

1:54Roman Kirsch:cv early on you started mechanical engineering you kind of went to mckenzie it's not a cv that screams oh this is going to be a cmo market here so what made you kind of go down that route

2:05Nikos Bartzoulianos:absolutely i think that's a question i'm still asking myself yeah yeah so i did i did mechanical engineering and then i did an mba but um for me what i discovered as a human, as a consumer, was the impact some brands had in my life. And I don't want to be very here materialistic, but there were some brands that were motivating me. There were brands that were actually making an impact, that they stood for something that I could relate across different stages of my life. And I got fascinated by the power and the art or the science behind it so i i was curious so i said let's let's do marketing and of course you cannot have marketing without proper understanding of the consumer so being close to the consumer applying common sense solving common sense solving consumer problems through your product services or what your brand stands for i think that was key and that's why i've been always been associated with brands organizations that have very solid extremely solid missions and value system

3:15Roman Kirsch:i mean that that's a good kind of transition to your current role at electrolux so so what's kind of the mission of the business the company and also the brands behind that because the company has been around for over a century right so what excited you about about the role there.

3:32Nikos Bartzoulianos:Absolutely. Well, Electrolux has a fantastic group vision, which is shaping living for the better. I think starting with that, there couldn't be a better selling point, right? Shaping living for the better. And then I started to understand more what it means and discovered that it stood for something else. One of the most sustainable, consistently recognized sustainable companies in the world for more than 100 years, offering bespoke experiences in taste, care, and well-being. This brand, this group of brands, this house of brands were making a difference in the world. And we told a story actually recently in BBC Studios in Pursuit of Wellness series, where in five minutes we tried to summarize what is this impact that has been documented and championed for more than 100 years.

4:23Nikos Bartzoulianos:It starts with air. If that is not there, I don't think it's easy to put your heart into that.

4:30Roman Kirsch:Okay, interesting. And I mean, you've been before with Samsung, you've been with Pogta and Gamble, but even by those standards, Electrolux is probably way older and has more heritage. So, you know, how do you navigate kind of this ever-changing, quicker way of, you know, being on top of trends, you know, social media, AI, a lot of tech with the preservation of kind of the heritage. And, you know, how is that limiting you and how is that enabling you to kind of make the right decisions?

5:03Nikos Bartzoulianos:Just one note, I think P &G is older. It's almost 200 years old, depending on the brand. But your point is absolutely fair. Basically, you need to constantly challenge yourself. You need to constantly challenge yourself. And the marketeers or any executive or team who feels complacent, they will be surprised. Because the world changes, consumer behavior changes. The headwinds the industry is facing today is different than the headwinds that were present 20 years ago. How do you adapt? How do you remain valid? it, I think you need to be very clear on the things you change and the things you keep.

5:45Nikos Bartzoulianos:So what you stand for, your mission, your values, those I think are fundamental for the existence of a brand, of a company. And unless you are true to the brand promise, immediately you become inauthentic. So I can give you an example, right? If you noticed recently, this year, we made a major brand transformation with Electrolux with two campaigns that we launched, Wash Life Balance and that being beautiful behind our scratch-resistant hub and our super-fast washing machines. You might notice that we elevated the sweetness, the heritage of the brand, not in the spirit of topography, where is Sweden and the flag, but more about the lifestyle values that this represents.

6:30Nikos Bartzoulianos:Because in today's world, where you have way, way more competitors, those are the things that differentiate you and make the brand distinctive. So I will tell people always don't be shy. In the case of Electrolux you can take Sweden out of it. The challenge is how do you interpret Sweden around the world? How do you make it locally relevant?

6:52Roman Kirsch:You made those initial two bold campaigns leading into Swedish heritage once after you joined right? So um and there is a third one

7:00Nikos Bartzoulianos:coming up completing the trilogy very very soon but you will soon hear.

7:05Roman Kirsch:So tell me a bit more about the thinking there why did you decide to double down on that you know what did you learn kind of in the process of running campaigns maybe share kind of one or two success metrics how you also defined if that campaign has been successful or not.

7:20Nikos Bartzoulianos:I'll try to be as descriptive as possible without giving away too much, I think it starts and ends with the consumer. So I think marketeers and brand builders need to have a strong gut feeling to do what's best for the brand, identify big ideas. But at the end of the day, those need to land well with consumers. So I have to say that there was some resistance on the big ideas as it always, because when it comes to marketing and creative, there are many different schools of thoughts, many stakeholders, and that's absolutely normal. But what I was pleased to see was that there was a common understanding and blessing all up from the CEO that if consumer research validates the findings and the key metrics of a campaign, then it's good to go, even if they disagree.

8:10Nikos Bartzoulianos:And I have to say, we used a new tone and manner in the brand, a more heroic one, which I thought is more applicable and relatable to the brand heritage and superiority and innovation history, which was weird to many people, especially in the Nordics. Why? Because Scandinavia is an amazing place in the world, and Sweden specifically. And one of the core values is humility, humbleness, which is an amazing trait. Me as a Greek also, I could use a little bit more of that. But jokes aside, you can be humble yet confident at the same time. So sometimes you need to push the boundaries and tell your story.

8:48Nikos Bartzoulianos:So that's what we did.

8:49Roman Kirsch:And just in terms of how you measure kind of the effectiveness of the campaign, what are some of the metrics you would be generally looking at?

8:58Nikos Bartzoulianos:I have a very strong army of CFOs, financial controllers. So I need to challenge you, chase you.

9:07Roman Kirsch:You have to justify every single thing.

9:09Nikos Bartzoulianos:Day and night, of course. And I think that's something that every marketeer, every CMO is facing, right? It's the polar opposite, the CFO versus the CMO, which is a healthy tension, I have to say. So I always start and challenge my team and ask for their help, of course, to demonstrate ROI, return on investment, return on marketing investment. And that needs to, of course, to have a short-term impact. but we also try to model medium to long-term impact, specifically around brand building. KPIs, I mean, I'm not going to surprise you there. Top of mind awareness, top three consideration, purchase intent.

9:52Nikos Bartzoulianos:Those are key metrics we try to measure. And of course, in line with the strategy of the company, drive profitable market share growth. and you could argue also how you mix up and how you premiumize the brand and there are some kpis there i cannot disclose all of them but um there is a lot of science behind it um and last but not least of course consumer testing versus competition versus previous campaigns to ensure that we're heading the right way but here i want to take a pause if steve jobs did consumer testing of the

10:30Roman Kirsch:iphone without a keyboard probably would have failed that testing so sometimes you need to

10:37Nikos Bartzoulianos:take a leap of faith when you make a big jump because consumers might not know what they don't know until they have it yeah so i think great brands great products make the difference when they are ready to take bold steps. But of course, there you need to also be ready with a backup plan in case things go wrong.

11:03Roman Kirsch:How much of what you kind of learned, for instance, at Samsung, which is obviously also a high ticket value products, how much is really applicable? How much is different? And the same question for your Procter and Gamble time, because there you have less concentration for products, I would argue, right? And probably just buy quicker because the ticket price is lower. Of course, there's a lot of other differences and similarities, but maybe you can talk a bit more about what you always can reapply and where you kind of need to start from scratch when coming in to a new company and brand.

11:43Nikos Bartzoulianos:I feel privileged because all of these institutions we're talking about and organizations have made their mark in their respective industry. Electrolux has been the number one home appliance manufacturer for many decades with consumer at the epicenter for many, many, many years. Samsung at the same time has been associated with the highest ever growth, economical growth of a country. And I'm talking about Korea. They've been part of that tremendous journey. P &G, I mean, where can I start? I mean, I have huge, tremendous respect of the fundamentals of marketing and brand building. And I think it's a fantastic school, Procter & Gamble and other FMCG companies.

12:29Nikos Bartzoulianos:From P &G, I would keep definitely the obsession with consumer. There's no way you can ignore the consumer. I would also highlight this institution as one of the best companies for marketeers and managers and leaders. because from day one, regardless of your level and all of the P &G employees, except R &D, they start at entry level and walk all the way up in the company. You've been given true responsibility. No sugar coating. You have a responsibility, big or small, but it's you. You are the mini CFO. You are the mini CMO. You are the mini GM, CEO. And marketing specifically, it's a leading function, which in other companies you don't see that often.

13:13Nikos Bartzoulianos:They ultimately control the full portfolio of the four Ps, place, price, promotion, and product. How you innovate. You don't see that everywhere. A lot of times, some companies, especially in the appliances industry, have R &D and product at the epicenter in the steering wheel. And a lot of GMs and general management come from that function. So when it doubts, organizationally, I always look back at the P &G times. Now, looking at Samsung, the winning mindset, the speed to market, the obsession with winning, of becoming number one, regardless of the industry or field they play, is enormous. Marketing-wise, when I joined Samsung in 2015-16, I think at Indie Brands, Best Global Brands ranking, they were ranked 17.

14:04Nikos Bartzoulianos:When I left, they were number five. and obviously I'm not taking credit for a huge marketing organization work, but I think Proutoo have been part of that journey. And I observed from a first row, front row seat, the brand transformation. I can give an example there of moving away from communicating specs, features, but communicating emotional benefits and becoming a more human brand. And that's what I keep from Samsung, which, of course, is also a competitor of Electrolux when it comes to home appliances. With Electrolux, of course, what I've observed is the, and it's been fantastic, the love that people have for the brands, the passion, especially the marketing community, their eyes are full of hope of telling that story, waiting to unlock the right way or medium to tell the true story of Electrolux as a brand.

14:59Nikos Bartzoulianos:And I think that is something exceptionally motivating for working with so much talented and fashionable people.

15:07Roman Kirsch:Obviously, you've been always with more established companies, but I'm sure that you had a lot of opportunities to kind of exchange with tech companies, with founder CMOs of grownups and fast growing companies. So what are the things that you feel bigger established companies can learn from those tech companies and vice versa? What are the things that some of those, you know, consumer tech businesses can actually learn from bigger established companies that they don't really have as part of their DNA?

15:37Nikos Bartzoulianos:Yes, Roman, and by the way, I have to say here, I have huge respect and admiration for entrepreneurs around the world. I have many friends, many classmates, ex-college who have went on and ventured pursuing their dreams. It takes guts and not everybody has a financial pillow below them and there is a major, as you know better, life decision with huge implications right in your personal life to go that way, the entrepreneurial way. So huge admiration for that and I hugely respect everybody. If I could keep something, if I can see something very common across all the founders and entrepreneurs, they have a very clear vision, a very clear passion and tremendous drive to make this work.

16:31Nikos Bartzoulianos:In most cases, it's all in and it's a make it or break it. Can we apply that mentality in the corporate workplace? I think it's absolutely needed. A lot of my team members are asking me what it takes me to become an executive, a VP. a CMO, what it takes for me to become a people manager, a leader. So that was a lesson for me across my career. And of course, I had my fair share of failures. But the moment you start feeling that you own part of the company, and I'm not referring to shares, I'm referring to truly, truly own your work stream, your area of responsibility. The moment you start realizing that in order to do magic, you might need to go above and beyond what your job description says.