Kate Gagnon: Why Organization Is an Operating System, Not an Instagram Moment

0:00Kate Gagnon:We are the largest home organizing brand in the United States. Home organization is sort of like an operating system for your life, and a good organization allows you to focus on what really matters most to you. The service is that somebody goes to the customer's house and helps them organize their living space. That's exactly right. So our organizers would come in, they would sort of scope out what that project looked like, obviously provide a proposal, and then product that they're going to use to implement as part of the final project. What is the marketing philosophy that Neat Method has? The overarching idea about organization is that, yes, it's aspirational.

0:33Kate Gagnon:Yes, it's beautiful. Yes, it's like this Instagram-worthy moment. But we really believe that it's an ongoing system that you live with. So we try to talk about organization in a way that it's very personalized to you.

0:47Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. Over here, Andres Figueira. And this show is brought to you by the Global Talent Company, helping fast-growing teams hire exceptional remote talent from Argentina, South Africa, and beyond. We connect companies with world-class professionals who bring skill, reliability, and a global perspective to every role. And just for our listeners today, we're offering an exclusive 10 % discount on your first hire. All you need to do is visit globaltalent.co, click Start Hiring, and mention the podcast listener discount when we reach out. And with me here today is Kate Gagnon, Vice President of Marketing at Neat Method, a company that created a lifestyle service committed to providing a more luxurious and smartly appointed living space.

1:30And with that said, Kate, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you here.

1:34Kate Gagnon:Amazing. Thanks for having me. No, no problem at all. We're so glad that we could make this work, that you're finally feeling better. And just so that we can get the ground running, Kate, we can hit the ground running, Would you be able to tell us a bit more about your background, about what a neat method is in your own words and how you came to be vice president of marketing at this company? Yeah. So, yeah. Hi, everyone. I'm Kate. I'm a hybrid marketing leader and startup advisor. I have about 15 years of experience helping brands grow, scale, really figure out how to find their voice. And like you said, I currently lead the marketing at Neat Method.

2:08Kate Gagnon:We are the largest home organizing brand in the United States. We really believe that home organization is sort of like an operating system for your life and that good organization allows you to focus on what really matters most to you in your life and really prioritize. So our offerings range from in-home organizing services to a line of expert-designed organizing products, everything you need to get organized yourself in your own home. And we also have a community of 100 plus franchise owners who lead the neat method organizing services in their own local markets. OK, that is so interesting.

2:45So the thing is, the service is that somebody goes to the customer's house and helps them organize their life and everything of their living space. Or is this another way that it's done?

2:56Kate Gagnon:Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right. So in terms of like the experience, if you were to hire someone, someone would come to your home. you'd say you know hey i really want to organize my kitchen my pantry my closet um and our organizers would come in they would sort of scope out what that project looked like obviously there's a lot of variance and even if you think about like a kitchen pantry right like i don't have a walk-in pantry i have like some cabinets i've designated for a pantry but some people have a pantry that's as big as this room right so okay um an organizer comes they kind of scope it out they uh provide a proposal.

3:28Kate Gagnon:And that proposal includes time for organizers to do the actual organization project and then product that they're going to use to implement as part of, you know, a part of the final project. So that, you know, that looks like bins, baskets, canisters, jars, you know, everything to kind of organize and contain and make it look beautiful and be really functional. And they work really closely with the client to understand what's important to them. So if it's a house where they have kids, like maybe there's a dedicated kind of self-serve snack area. if you're like a single person who's like a really busy professional like maybe it's all about you know creating putting things really easy really i don't know easy to grab for breaking making your lunch in the morning or whatever wow that is so interesting and and like is this oh i might want to say subscription but is it like a recurring service that people buy for or is it just a one-time thing that is done and they help you organize that and then they leave?

4:23Kate Gagnon:Yeah. So that's a good question. We do have a ton of repeat clients. So it does seem like something that like, oh, you come in, you get your kitchen organized and that's it. Maybe we never see you again. I'm sure that does happen sometimes, but most of the time people have us back. We refresh spaces. We actually have a home concierge type service where we could come in and refresh your spaces weekly or monthly as, you know, makes sense. And that can include anything from, you know, helping to put away groceries or, you know, sort mail or, you know, do things like that that would help kind of assist in a household.

4:54Kate Gagnon:Or just it's like, hey, I have kids and they've like not followed the system necessarily. We need to refresh it and make it look nice again. I get I get I get how that could happen. And Kate, what is the way in which or what is the marketing philosophy that Neat Method has in order to promote yourselves to the audience and the customers that you want to reach? Yeah, I think, you know, for us, the overarching idea about organization is that, you know, yes, it's aspirational. Yes, it's beautiful. Yes, it's like this Instagram worthy moment. But we really believe that it's an ongoing system that you live with.

5:28Kate Gagnon:It's really tailored to what's important to you in your life and like what supports your goals. And so we really have, you know, we don't have like a one size fits all approach. So we try to talk about organization in a way that it's very personalized to you. And, and it kind of ebbs and flows and grows with you. And like you said earlier, it's like, you know, it would be unrealistic to say the pantry always looks as beautiful as it did when we did the photo shoot, right? So there's always in it, you know, a very necessary sort of like refresh perspective when we try to build that into how we think about it.

6:00Kate Gagnon:So we think about much more as like sort of systems and routines and rituals versus like, wow, look how beautiful this is. Let's put it on, you know, Pinterest. And that's important to us because we have both the direct to consumer side of the business and the service side of the business. And so, you know, how we talk to those audiences is very different, right? The things that you would need to hear and learn about to hire a service professional coming to your home are so, so much different than, you know, you wanting to buy a couple of bins and baskets from us to do your own project, right?

6:33Kate Gagnon:It's very different kind of communication, but we have that sort of overarching philosophy about organization that kind of ties through everything. Okay. So I hadn't understood that part quite well then, because then you have the service, as you mentioned, but you also provide the products that they would also use in order to help organize and make it look in the same aesthetic as what is on the neat method page, for example. Then you have these bins and these recipients where people can store stuff and anything like that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So when we started off, we're about 15 years old.

7:05Kate Gagnon:We just celebrated our 15th anniversary. We started off, you know, thank you. We started off originally, you know, on the service side and we only launched product about six years ago. And so, you know, in the beginning, before we had our own product, all of our organizers were sourcing products from, you know, container store or, you know, a local organizing store or Bed Bath & Beyond when that existed, you know, and they sort of had their favorites. But after spending time in like tens of thousands of people's homes doing these organizing projects, you know, you start to think, wow, I like this product, but I wish it was a little more like this.

7:38Kate Gagnon:Or like, I wish this was sized differently. It never kind of fits in these standard cabinets or, you know, things like that. And so we designed our own line of product. And they kind of addressed a lot of those like very small, but very significant pain points. And so, so yes, on, you know, if you hire an organizer to come do a service in your home, they will use the neat method product. They will also, you know, we don't make every tiny thing that you might need for your projects, they will also maybe source of other non-neat method products, things that we don't make. And then, yes, we have a whole direct-to-consumer e-com experience that's, you know, talking to the end customer directly who wants to, and this is usually someone who's maybe more of a DIYer.

8:17Kate Gagnon:They like organization. They maybe wouldn't dream of hiring someone to do this project because they like doing it and they would want to do it themselves. And so, yeah, so we're also providing a lot of like guidance and, you know, care and attention to those folks to help support them to be as successful as they can in their own project. We actually launched a book last year, which is a super helpful tool for the DIY client who wants to do it themselves. They can read the book and kind of get the tips and all of that. Now, I love how you're also keeping in mind a DIY client because I personally, like I don't like cleaning, but I like organizing.

8:51And it's a little bit of like, what's it called? It's catering my OCD and it just makes me feel so good when everything is perfectly squared on the table and everything and then I'm like oh I did this and it feels so awesome yes I

9:03Kate Gagnon:I feel like the true test of how like how where someone lands on the spectrum if they're like into doing it themselves or if they want to just hire someone to get kind of you know the final is like when you talk about um like I love reorganizing you know like there's always that junk drawer in your kitchen that's full of so many weird things I get so much joy with like taking everything out and then like putting it all back and making it like so perfect. It's like it's so satisfying. But I know like that's not everyone, right? You know, most people are like, no thanks. Just like it's fine, you know?

9:35No, no, no. I feel you on that. I have like three. I've done two and I'm procrastinating one more because I haven't had the time. But I do really enjoy it. It's like a Sunday activity, you know? Also, I'd love to know, Kate, as well then with the products you guys create, I believe that that also really helps with the branding for the neat method, because that way, whenever you organize a place that they use your products, it's like the neat method was here in a very subtle and like subconscious way because it always has the same. I believe it would have like the same colors and styles or are there ways that the customers can tailor or customize the products they receive from your side?

10:13Kate Gagnon:Yeah, that's a great point. I think definitely on the service side, our projects have a very particular look. Like even though they're being executed by so many different organizers in so many different styles of homes, the product is designed in particular to work in lots of different styles of homes. So, you know, we don't want it to be like, oh, this only looks good in like what's trendy now and home building. And so the products are designed to be, you know, pretty timeless. They come in a bunch of different colors that are like very sort of like beautiful but neutral, you know, kind of blend in with a lot of different things.

10:47Kate Gagnon:So a lot of like beautiful metal materials and interesting textures and natural fibers and things like that. You know, the other thing I think that's really great about the product is we design them to be really multifunctional. So we don't design really any products that are like this is for organizing this very specific thing in your refrigerator or, you know what I mean, like a really like one one single use type thing. Everything can be used pretty much everywhere. And we do that on purpose because we want, you know, we want to to honor that, like your home is going to grow. You might move homes.

11:21You might decide, you know, we're redoing our kitchen.

11:24Kate Gagnon:We actually we liked these white baskets before, but actually we want to go with black now, you know, and we want to be able to. like repurpose those products in other areas of the home. Right. So that's, I think, a really nice thing about it is like everything that you had in maybe a pantry, if you decided you wanted to change it, like those baskets could go in your living room on open shelving. They could go in your closet. They could go in your office, you know, and we want it to be that way so that it doesn't feel like, you know, it is a big investment to do these types of projects. And we don't want people to feel like, you know, oh, if I, you know, change the aesthetic of this room in a year, then And I'm out of luck, right?

11:58Kate Gagnon:It's all super multi-purpose in that way. Now, Kate, I'd love to also just like switch the perspective a little bit and now look a bit more into the company. And you mentioned that the NEAT Method is 15 years old, right? Yes. Oh, my goodness. Okay. And how big are you guys? Like I read like you're in the U.S. and Canada. But how big is the company? How many employees or people do you have helping you out with this? About 100 franchise owners who own each of their own NEAT Method locations. And then each of those teams might have anywhere from two to 10 organizers on their team, depending on how mature the market is and how long they've been in business.

12:33Kate Gagnon:So it'd be individual organizers who are working on those teams. Our corporate team is pretty lean. There's about, I think, about 18 of us who work on the corporate team. And we work across both the services side and the D2C e-commerce side of the business as well. Okay, wow. So it's more about the franchises that are opened and then it's delegated to the people in those local places to do and to take the NEAP method. Okay. And are you guys planning on expanding beyond the U.S. and Canada or are you comfortable where you're at and are you just like trying to dominate the market in those two countries?

13:08Kate Gagnon:Yeah, I think, you know, I think for now we're really focused on the growth we can still have within the U.S., especially on the service side of the business. There's lots of markets where we don't have an owner or we've never had an owner. And we would love to grow in that place because we know there's a lot of potential there. And then, yeah, I think on the, you know, on the DTC e-com side where, you know, it's been a year of, you know, crazy uncertainty with tariffs and, you know, being in the consumer products business is very challenging. So I think for now we're sticking to U.S. and Canada, but we get a lot of interests and questions and demand from outside the U.S.

13:43Kate Gagnon:So I wouldn't rule it out for future. Okay. Okay. No, I totally understand that. And it's completely logical just like remaining, what's it called, just trying to dominate the markets you're in right now rather than biting more than you can chew. And another question I do have, Kate, is how are you guys or are you guys leveraging AI in any peculiar or particular ways to help you out with the NEAT method? Because like I know, what's it called? Like AI home design is a thing and people just like take a picture of their living room in it and it reorganizes or shows them the best way or the cutest way it would look.

14:18But I'm not sure if you guys are arguing anything crazy with that because I believe there could be a lot of use cases.

14:23Kate Gagnon:Yeah, we're definitely exploring it. I would say Neemethod overall is like very, like very open to and very like embracing AI. I think that was something that was, you know, I've been at the company a little over a year and that was something that was really exciting when I first joined. I was like, everyone is like, there's like no, no naysayers here. Everyone is into kind of the possibilities of this. So we use it a ton, you know, from like on the marketing team, from a creative production standpoint, in terms of like, I use it a lot for research and for data and for like synthesizing data. data, doing competitive research, things like that.

14:58Kate Gagnon:We use it a ton for like, you know, all of our meetings and needing notes and things, stuff like that. And I think what you're talking about too is like the next level in terms of home design. We've, we've played, we play with every like home AI home design tool that comes out and compare notes because we also agree that there's like a lot, you know, a lot to be had there. I think right now we haven't, we haven't found anything that's in the market currently that kind of like addresses exactly our needs. There's a lot of great interior design tools where you can say like, you know, here's my room and like swap the sofa and, you know, something like that.

15:37Kate Gagnon:I think a challenge for us on the organizing side, and we see a ton of potential for us, but is making sure that, you know, what those renderings would look like from an organization perspective have accurate measurements. I think that's a that's a I think a challenge generally of ours and where it really you know having someone on the ground whether that's the D2C customer or that's our franchise owner who's measuring very precisely all of you know these spaces and indicating what type of products you know would fit for whatever reason seems to still not be like exactly replicable by AI but I have a feeling we're going to get there pretty soon.

16:16Kate Gagnon:So whether it's something that exists out there or something that we build, I think it could be a big game changer for us, particularly for the D2C customer to kind of see the possibilities and understand these shelves behind me. What could those look like if they had different products on them? No, I hadn't seen it from the way that you're describing it right now. And it's totally true. Like the level of meticulousness that must be required in order to actually say like, hey, this measures 50 inches. And then therefore we can place four bins and another thing here to make it look as neat as possible.

16:50AI is not that detail oriented yet. It hasn't gotten to that place. It's more to exactly as you mentioned, to substitute a sofa for some chairs and to make it look and give you an idea of how it would feel. but that's right the need method I think you really need to be super neat and really deep into what is done in the house so that's nice that you found uh or you have a niche industry that AI hasn't been able to gobble up yet because there's a bunch of stuff that AI can do now but I imagine that in two three years that will be a tool that will help you guys out so much with that

17:22Kate Gagnon:I think so and I think I think part of it right now with like the tools that exist right now is that there's so much about it that is um you know personalizing what's like I mentioned in the beginning of call personally think kind of what's important to you so you know if it's a closet and you uh you know play tennis every day like making sure that's like that space is prioritized and the other thing is also just sort of like the the nuance of spaces and sort of how spaces are used it's like yes this shelf is you know uh you know 24 inches wide but then there's hinges and so you can't quite put things up to the hinges in the shelf and like you know there's all those kind of like nuances so i have a feeling eventually we'll get there to a point where you can like take a picture and be like what if it's like this and you just kind of get a an output um but not quite yet the organizers will have to keep like doing the the legwork of measuring it literally and then seeing it but then one day they'll be able to get these outputs choose the one they like the most and then just like go in and execute it but but it's it's so i'm like i'm hearing you speak and seeing what the neat method is and i'm getting such a reminder of this lady um i believe her name was Mary Kondo.

18:28She used to go into people's houses and help them organize themselves and she would like have a super extremist way of making them throw everything out. But I feel that she actually created a brand for herself rather than a whole company. But I feel the NEAT method could go, is that a bit of what the NEAT method is also about? Helping people declutter and get better with what they have in their spaces?

18:50Kate Gagnon:Yeah, we definitely, as part of our process come in and what we do we call it editing but like you know we'll help you edit edit out um i wouldn't say we go as far as marie kondo i think marie kondo is like so much of what she does is about um sort of the emotionality or the emotional attachment to you know to items um and i think you know for us we uh you know we want to meet people where they are where you know we're not going to come in and say like the only way you can get organized is by only owning five sweaters out all this other thing right and so we will you know we will come in and like if we do a closet project for example we you know we will make kind of a suggested pile of items that we think you could edit out whether it's like oh this this um this garment has a hole in it and like maybe you don't want to keep it or you know this looks maybe like you don't wear it very often because it was in the very back or you know things like that we'll kind of make these suggestions but it's ultimately up to the client um if they're like actually i want to keep all those things we're like okay great well we'll still organize them um but you know we kind of see that as like a key that editing process is a key part of the kind of system and routine of being organized in your home that you need to kind of like always be kind of reassessing everything and saying like hey there's this whole section of my closet that's like using up great you know prime real estate that we're not you know i'm not actually wearing these items like should i rethink this um but yeah a little less extremist than you know i could imagine and i imagine that the extremism in that part of like mary kondo's show it was all about the fact that people would watch and say oh my goodness she's making them throw this away and that and that also created more viewers it was more dramatic so i totally get that and uh kate do you have um or have you guys ran any campaigns that worked really well in terms of marketing the neat method in the u.s or canada that you feel you could tell us about or give us an example.

20:38I'm just wondering how you're able to, like, I'm not sure if you need to create a need in people's minds for them wanting the service, because I feel when somebody is in a disorganized house or lives in a disorganized way, they know it. And once they see the solution, they'll want it. But have you guys done anything like that that you could share with us?

20:57Kate Gagnon:Yeah, we do a pretty big campaign yearly in January that we call New Year Neat Me. It's changed a bunch. Yeah, it's changed a bunch over the years in terms of we, you know, kind of evolve it each year. The team every year is like how, you know, sort of competitively with ourselves. How can we one up ourselves this year? But also sort of like, how can we meet the cultural moment now? But obviously, you know, January is a huge time for resolutions and, you know, getting organized is often one of those resolutions. This year, we took kind of a different approach where we're really trying to emphasize that, you know, organization could be an endpoint, right?

21:34Kate Gagnon:People who say, like, I want to have that beautiful pantry. I want to have an organized home. That certainly could be an endpoint. And we very much support that. But we also feel really strongly that organization is sort of like one key part of a life well lived. And it will help support everything else in your life you're doing. And so this year we tried to take a little bit more of an approach that was kind of encouraging organization as tied to maybe other common New Year's resolutions or goals that people had. So if your goal was to have more, you know, nice, you know, dinners with your whole family, maybe then organizing your pantry to kind of prioritize dinner prep and what that looks like would make that a little bit easier.