Pre-Orders & Ripeness: Building Trust Through Friction

0:01Hey everybody and thank you for listening. My name is Andres Figueira and I'm going to be your host for the day. This show is brought to you by the Global Talent Company, a company that's helping fast-growing teams hire exceptional remote talent from Argentina, South Africa, and anywhere really, with companies worldwide. And by connecting these world-class professionals, we are able to bring skill, reliability, and global perspective to every role. So if your team's looking to grow with proven remote talent, just head on over to theglobaltalent.co and see how we can help. And today with me here, I'm speaking with Christoph Schmidt, CEO of Gabbana, a company that's changing global trade in favor of family farmers, local communities and the environment because they want more sustainability, more equity and more quality at affordable prices.

0:49So Christoph, it's a pleasure to have you here. How are you doing? Hey, thanks for having me. It's a great pleasure to be here and talk about our company. It is amazing. We're very happy to have you here as well, Christoph. And just so that we can get started, would you be able to give us a bit more context of where you come from, how you started at Gabbana and what Gabbana actually is? Yeah, I like to do that. So actually, I'm a business master background. I went to the big multinational companies. I was always fascinated by marketing, by commercial questions and went through my career climbing the ladder.

1:25And at some point I realized, actually, it's not only about my own career. It's also about my purpose in life. And I should decide what I want to do in the end. And that's how I landed at Gabbana. So three years ago, I joined this company as a CEO. And since then, I'm really happy about this step because this has been an amazing adventure so far. Now, and in terms of Gabbana, Christoph, my understanding is that you, the company, it has a different perspective in what is selling groceries, because you guys, you have your customers buy the groceries they want, but they don't get them until those vegetables, those fruits are already set and ready to be eaten.

2:10Is that kind of like the spin on it? Absolutely. Doesn't really sound like a very consumer centric approach. What's we do? But actually, it has a lot of sense in it. And maybe I have to explain a little bit where we come from. So in 1973, the fair trade movement started in Switzerland. That's a long time ago. And at that time, the banana women were women who realized that or had this question, why is an apple from Switzerland in grocery more expensive than a banana that comes from Latin America? and that was triggering them to explore a bit more why this difference is actually happening and that the land workers are exploited, etc.

2:54So this was really the beginning of Gabbana, this movement of those women. And later on we have developed into a company and our approach is actually to try to have impact at source, especially for the family farmers, but through trade. So we really want to be a business. We're not an NGO. We want to be a business, but not only for profit, but also for impact. And this combination then leads, of course, to some fundamental differences in our approach of how we sell our products. Okay, and in terms of how you guys sell your products, now, if we're waiting for the product to be ready for consumption before providing it to the consumer, have you had any difficulties or has it been a challenge marketing seasonality as a premium feature when usually consumers, I believe they're just used to going to the supermarket and finding everything they need, even though it might not be ready, they need to wait a few days leaving it at home.

3:56But has that been a challenge trying to educate and explain to customers how a Gabbana's business model works? Yes, of course. It is a challenge. It is re-education somehow. Most people are used to shop physically in store for food still today. Online food, groceries is still relatively small, a small proportion. So anyway, there is an education. Why should you shop online for food? And that's the same for us. Now, our approach is different in the sense that we probably don't target the whole population because many people just want the instant solution. So if they want to buy an orange now, they go to the supermarket, buy the orange, and that's it.

4:41We target people who have a very, how do you say, a consumption pattern that is very also intellectual. So they want to understand what they buy and why they buy it and where it comes from. and this target group is ready also to try new ways of shopping because in the end it's the result the cows for them and not the way they do it. What you offer in Gabbana, then my understanding is that there is no physical store where the consumer can go buy. It's completely online and you have all the options they could find in a supermarket or in a grocery store but once they buy it, then they will need to wait until it's actually ready and it's tested by the company to know that it's just like the perfect product?

5:27Yeah, there are products with a long shelf life and these products we have on stock and you order them today, you get them tomorrow. So there we are not different than any other. So let's say nuts or dried fruits is something that we have all year round. But what you're talking about is fresh fruits and fresh fruits is something that we would only sell when they are ripe. so only during the season and you mentioned it already twice that you know you have to pre-order and what is behind this so actually we ask people to tell us what kind of products they want and we will send it to them when the product is ripe so we take these pre-orders and then we go to the farmers and we purchase once the farmer tells us the product is ripe and that's in very different logic than what you have in supermarket because the supermarket will tell the farmers I need every week 10 containers of oranges for instance whether they are the best quality or not doesn't matter as long as I can sell oranges because I have this constant regular demand in my supermarket every day so the quality of obviously will suffer in in average while in our case yeah you order for November, you might get them on the 5th or on the 12th of November.

6:44Really, nature tells us when is the right moment. And that's a different way. But actually, this is how we consumed in the past, like 100, 150 years ago, you were consuming things when they were ready, when the farmers were selling them. And they were not trying to sell them all year round, but only when they were at the best and so we are helping you to re re refine your origins and how nature entirely when the fruit is already ripe and ready for consumption some people already bought it you guys know that you got to send that to them i like now i'm going to more in a bit of more like a logistical or inventory question but do you guys keep all those ripe fruit in your warehouse so that you can deliver it personally or is there a certain accord with the farmers that they send it to the consumer once they know?

7:35How does that work? So we try to be as efficient as possible. So the more direct we can, the better it is. So at the beginning, of course, we got them here in the warehouse, but we never repack them, for instance. But we try to be as quick as possible. So the lorry arrives, we just put in the order sheet, and then we send it on the last mile, and it arrives in your house. So we can honestly pretend that the oranges are the freshest that you can get. Because it really takes one or two days from Greece to Switzerland, for instance, or Germany or wherever it is. And then another day and it arrives at your home.

8:19Okay, that's so cool. And you guys serve all of Europe in terms of where you can deliver? Yes, most countries in Europe. Of course, we have to build these logistics chains. So there are some countries where we haven't done that, especially for fresh products. But we are in quite a growth mode. I'm sure we will expand this into more countries as we go. Have you had any interesting consumer insights about food sourcing that surprised you in your time at Yavanna that you did not expect, for example? I didn't know that this demographic would buy so much of this fruit or this country is really an avid consumer of this other product.

8:57That is just like an interesting fact. Yeah, good question. I think in terms of consumption, I'm not so surprised because we are quite a mirror of what you see also in supermarkets. What works in supermarkets also works in our case. But then there are some products that really surprise me. And oranges, for instance, is one of those. It's just crazy how much demand do we see for an orange from Greece? And actually, we do only want to import oranges from Greece because they have a bit of a different flavor. They're a bit more authentic than the regular oranges you would get in Europe normally. So this is a development that is quite surprising.

9:36But I would like to add one thing because in our case, you can't order like one kilo of oranges. You have to buy big packs. We were talking about efficiency. So when you order oranges, it's 13 kilos. and this is something that is surprising me since I'm here that people buy 13 kilos of oranges that they get at once who will eat 13 kilos of oranges my god that's so much orange juice exactly it's orange juice or it is sharing and this is actually what we do or what we see that happens you get 13 kilos you might consume 10 but you still have some left and then you give them you share them and that is maybe not so usual anymore that you share products that you have, leftovers that you have that you can't consume yourself.

10:23And in our case, this happens very often. And this is our biggest marketing driver for your consumers, actually. So it's not an intention, but it's a result of the way that we are working, that people have a lot. Then they share and then they talk. Why do you have that much? And they talk about us and why it is important to support also the cause that we are following. and it's quite a remarkable feat. Oh yeah, that really is remarkable and it makes me feel that these people that are buying 13 kilograms of oranges, it's like they feel like they grew it themselves. It must feel like a farmer getting this big sack of oranges and then you're like, oh my God, it's already bonanza time right now and then you just get them out because they're so good.

11:06It just really, I think it comes from a very honest place and us as humans, I feel that once we started with agriculture, it's like, why don't you try this? It's so nice. It's so good. So you can see. And Christophe, have you guys had any issues with, I know you're a very green brand claiming for optimizing efficiency and sustainability. Have there been any issues with greenwashing and the marketing you guys do? Because I know nowadays, sustainability is a term that is thrown out there a bit more recklessly by companies just to make people feel that they are taking care of the environment. And I know Gabbana is 100 % a really serious company in this regard.

11:47But have there been people that don't believe it or that are having a hard time buying that idea? Yeah, it happens for sure. And I think it is good that you're critical about it because this greenwashing and greenhashing that we're seeing everywhere is just bad. Because in the end, what we want is to really improve the situation and not just use it as a marketing gimmick. So actually, we were elected as the most sustainable brand in Switzerland last year. And we didn't expect it because sustainability is, of course, very important to us. But our mission is to improve the livelihoods of farmers.

12:24It's not to be the most sustainable brand in Switzerland. So we take it very seriously, but that is not what we want. But your question was whether we have these feedbacks. Yes. And I think what is so refreshing somehow, Anna, is that we try to be very critical ourselves and not to just claim things and pretend things. On the other hand, we try to be very transparent when we do things wrong. And this happens all the time. So we rather talk about the things that go wrong than the things that go right. And I think that gives us this credibility because we are much more transparent probably than many companies that use just green for their marketing.

13:07That makes quite a difference, I believe. No, and I also like the fact that in the type of business model that you're running, that is a lot more transparent in the fact that, yes, we're going to give you the fruit or the fresh goods once they're ripe. Even though you ordered it today, you'll get it when it's good. That also generates a lot more trust from the consumer and to you guys because it just makes you feel and it makes you be a much more honest brand when you admit your faults, when you are saying and vouching for things that require trust from the consumer. I think that's a good way to go.

13:41And Christophe, now that I'm hearing you speak about how you address certain topics, you prefer to then own up to your mistakes instead of just putting them under the rug and making sure you have this open level of contact with the consumers. What are the best channels that are working for you in terms of that marketing right now? Are you just using like all the usual social platforms, TV, radio, what different channels are working for El Givano right now? Yeah, we are an online brand. So obviously we use most of the online channels that are available. We try to have a social media presence and we do performance marketing.

14:20As others, I don't think we have a different approach there. I think the content speaks for itself. So you need to be sure that you're authentic with your content that you have. What we also do is still maybe a bit old fashioned, is still a lot of paper marketing. Mailings are sent out by posts. because our consumers tend to be across all age groups. And we have some age groups that prefer to order by mail, for instance, or even some prefer to call in. And that's fine with us as well. So not selectish, but most people are really online and it's the easiest as the fastest way, of course. I also want to address one of the most popular trends of the moment, and that is AI.

15:03How is Gibbanner using AI to help themselves, to help you guys leverage and optimize work. AI is fascinating. And I think we love it somehow because it offers so many new opportunities. So what we have done is create a think tank. So we have tried to find within our company and we are about 900 employees worldwide. We have asked everybody who wants to join and we select those people who have the most knowledge and experience in this area. It doesn't really depend what, but we want people who are AI as such and have them think about how we could use it for ourselves. Of course, everybody uses Change EPT, for instance, or translations.

15:48I mean, that's quite the norm. But what we want to figure out is how can AI really help us to become more efficient, the personal efficiency of each employee. And it's fascinating because I have some colleagues who use this in a way that is astonishing and increases their efficiency in a way that is just marvelous. Now, having one such colleague is great, but I would like to have all of the colleagues in the end to profit from it. And that's one area where I believe we can still improve a lot. The other one is a bit, and I'm a bit more skeptical, is in communication. It's quite obvious you can use it for we have, I think, I don't know how many, 70 ,000 or more customer contacts by phone or by mail every year.

16:35So, of course, you can automate their own use. But we will not use chatbots to talk to our consumers because we believe that this is an area where we really want to have this human touch and keep this human touch. It might be a bit different than others who just look on cost and efficiency per contact. We believe that this is the most important contact that we have and our customer service is actually our most important ambassador for the brand. And we like it when we can have this conversation with our consumers. It is true that in between the whole workforce that somebody may have or in different companies, there's always this little shining star that loves to use AI and has it helping them out with all their processes.

17:15But it would be amazing if that could be transferred and shown to the whole company because it would optimize and make everything much more efficient. And I totally get that. And also in terms of the human touch and your customer service way that you're doing things, I totally agree there because it's not weird anymore, but it still impresses me how I'm just able to tell when it's somebody real or when it's AI. And when it's AI, it loses a bit of interest in my side. It's, I don't want to keep talking to this bot. I would prefer to talk to somebody real. and when it's about fruit and your food and when it's going to be ready and who's farming it or where it's coming from.

17:53I feel that is also an important point to not lose that human touch that you're mentioning because it really is. Especially I think in our mission, this is important because it's about people. It's about impact. It's not just about the product that we sell the most efficient possible, but we really want to create the difference. So we need to talk about this difference that we are creating, the impact that we are creating. And that's not something we want to delegate to a machine. We really want to do this ourselves. And now that we're speaking about how AI is, how you want it to help your team and help the company as a whole and these little stars that know how to use it.

18:30How big is Gebana, Christoph, and how big is the team that you manage? And maybe specifically, if you could tell me about the marketing team, how big is that? Like, how many people are you managing right now? Gebana is actually looking after or developing supply chains. So it means we have two companies in Africa at the moment, so in Togo and in Burkina Faso, it's West Africa, where we have the farmer relationship, where we buy the products, where we give training in organic farming, for instance, and where we transform products. By transformation, I don't mean big industrial work. It's more about drying and packing, labeling and sending products to Europe.

19:11And then in Europe, we have two companies. One is looking after the online business, is what we were talking about before. And then we also have a B2B company that is selling into retail and grocery. Why do we do that? It's because we are committed to our farmers. So if they have more products, we will buy more from them. But online is limited how much we sell online. And the rest of it, we will sell them through B2B channels worldwide, actually. And that's why we have those two companies that are located both in Europe, but the B2B company is selling worldwide. So we have customers also in the US and Mexico, etc.

19:52So how big it is, we have a 16 million euro turnover at the moment. So we're still fairly small. We want to be much, much bigger, but we grow double digit every year. So we have quite a dynamic development and we have around 900 employees. 800 are located in Africa and about 100 in Europe. And then your question about the marketing team, that is, I'm not entirely sure, but about 30 people, I would say, in different departments. So customer service is part of our marketing team. In our organization, then we have the whole growth and outreach team that is looking after prospects, new consumers trying to get in contact.

20:37is going to events, etc. We really try to have also there this human connection. It's not only an online connection that we are creating. And the rest of the team is here in Zurich looking after our existing customers and maintaining the relationship with them and developing new product ideas, etc. Okay, I love that. And wow, I was not expecting an 100-person workforce in Africa. That is crazy. And Christoph, are all these people under Gabbana, like working for Gabbana, are they working physically in physical locations? Or are there a certain part that work remote and you have them more spread out?

21:17Because like I'm thinking, where do you put a hundred people in that bunch? I imagine they're scarced around, it's different farms and different places where they pack the product. But it's a lot of people. No, it's a lot of people. In Africa, I mean, most people are really working physically in an office or in a factory. So in Africa, most of those people are working in our factories. So they are packing and they're doing the quality control, etc. So that is a very labor-intensive work that they are doing. That's why we have so many employees for the turnover that we do. And actually, we are investing at the moment into a new factory in Burkina where we will have another 1 ,000 additional jobs created.

21:57So we're really talking about big volumes, a lot of manual work. And deliberately, we want to have manual work. We don't want to automize everything because also there it's about impact. And job creation is part of our impact that we want to create in those countries, not automize everything. And Christophe, I know we're almost at time, but I would love to give you the opportunity to tell anybody that's listening to us right now, if they're located in Europe and want to order some produce from you guys, or if they're a business around the world that wants to chat and maybe see if you can send them whatever produce that they need, how could somebody go about learning how gebaner could help them out the easiest way to contact us is through our website so it's gebaner.com gebaner is written g-e-b-a-n-a and maybe for those who wonder where this name comes from this comes from german banane which means fair banana and that relates back to the story i was telling of the banana women so we started with the banana and this name then stopped with us and that's why we are called Gebana.

23:01But we are open for any type of contact just go through the forum on our website, I think that is probably the easiest, or go through our social media accounts where we also are present in most platforms. Christoph, honestly, thank you so much for hopping on the episode. We really appreciate you being able to come on and I really hope that you enjoyed it. Thank you very much. It was a fascinating experience and thanks for giving us the opportunity to talk about Gebana. No, for sure. It has been a pleasure. And to everybody who has been listening, we really appreciate you being here on the episode with us as well.

23:35And we hope that you keep coming back to listen to the different personalities that we speak to and the different industries that we are learning about. So thank you so much. And I hope you have a great rest of your day.