Turning an IPO Into a Multi-Week Demand Gen Campaign

0:00Really what Navon does is take the ease and personalized experience that a lot of people are used to getting when they book personal travel and it takes that to the business environment. And Navon really designs the product for the end user, for that frequent traveler. So we can make sure you get not only your hotel and flight reward points, but things like Navon rewards and also the options that are personalized to you. What has your marketing philosophy been for the company since you started? My philosophy has really been since I started to help Nivan globalize, which is a really interesting opportunity and challenge because you have all different types of marketers, all different parts of the world, all different backgrounds, and how do you get them to work together and harness what is really a strong shared passion here for in-person connections.

0:50Hey, everybody. Thank you for tuning in. My name is Andres Diera, and I'm going to be your host for the day. This show is brought to you by the Global Talent Company, helping fast-growing teams hire exceptional remote talent from Argentina, South Africa, and beyond. We connect companies with world-class professionals who bring skill, reliability, and a global perspective to every role. And just for our listeners, we're offering an exclusive 10 % discount on your first hire. All you need to do is visit globaltalent.co, click start hiring, and mention the podcast listener discount when we get in touch.

1:22And also with me here, I am speaking with Erica White, SVP of Marketing and Communications at Navon, the leading all-in-one business travel and expense management solution that makes travel easy for frequent travelers. So, Erica, how's it going? It's a pleasure to have you on the show. Awesome. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. No, for real. And I started looking up Navon, and it really looks like a big company. So in order to get the audience a bit more in context of who you are and what Navon is, would you be able, Erica, to tell us a bit more about your background and how you got to be the SVP of marketing and communications at Navon?

2:00If you're a frequent traveler or even if you're someone who just travels for work from time to time, you should absolutely know about Navon. So let me start there for a minute. And I think that feeds into how I ended up here and in the role I'm in today. So really what Navon does is take the ease and personalized experience that a lot of people are used to getting when they book personal travel, and it takes that to the business environment. I'm sure you and a lot of other business travelers have had to deal with a lot of antiquated tools when you're booking for work and you can't get your rewards points or the hotel you really like isn't available, or you can only get a middle of seat on the flight that's in policy.

2:38And Navon really designs the product for the end user, for that frequent traveler. So we can make sure you get not only your hotel and flight reward points, but things like Navon rewards and also the options that are personalized to you. So I got here because I was one of the people who tended to book around my corporate travel solution in the past. I was also consistently delinquent on my expense reports. And I working at really large companies and I was traveling a lot early in my career, had those crumpled up receipts at the bottom of my purse. And I was unwrapping them and trying to enter the information manually.

3:15And I always had someone from the finance department, me and my Erica, it's the end of the month worship. And I didn't have the right empathy for it. It is a huge problem. It's a huge problem not to have that reconciled. And also just in today's world, it's a problem for companies not to know where their employees are. So if you're booking off platform and you have something like a natural disaster and your employer can't figure out where you are and how to get you home, it's a real problem. So I was sort of an offender, if you will, for a while. And then in my previous role just before Nivon, I was at a company that adopted the solution that had Nivon.

3:50And like it set me straight. Like I was just like, how is this this easy? This feels like booking a personalized trip. All the information I want is here. I can book in a matter of minutes. It doesn't take me that long. And then when they called me up, I was like, I know you. And I was like, I believe. I'm like, I actually think if they got me booking on platform, me getting my expenses and on time, then they can do this for everyone. So that's a bit about Nirvana and how I got here. Okay. So Nirvana is the solution to the pain point that workers have when they need to submit it. Like what you mentioned as your experience is what I with two.

4:27It's just keeping the receipt, making sure they add up. It's then having the finance team approve it, that it was an appropriate expense. I get it, but it's so beautiful that it's been able to be digitalized and centralized in this application that really helps everybody out. Okay. And in terms of how Navon started and what it is now, what has your marketing philosophy been for the company since you started? Great question. So I got here earlier this year, And I think what was an interesting challenge and opportunity and also drew me to the job was we had a lot of parts of marketing living in different pockets of the business because the business did grow and diversify so rapidly.

5:07So you think about a time like COVID, not exactly a lot of people traveling, especially traveling for work. I don't know about you, but I was just at home. I was spending a lot of time at home, spending a lot of time eating takeout food, but certainly wasn't on the road. But suffice to say that Navon responded really quickly and launched their expense business. And then they had a payments business on top of that. They also have a really significant business in EMEA. And marketing was disparate as a result. It was sort of existing in pockets. And my philosophy has really been since I started to help Navon globalize that marketing organization, which is a really interesting opportunity and challenge because you have all different types of marketers, all different parts of the world, all different backgrounds.

5:50and how do you get them to work together and harness what is really a strong shared passion here for in-person connections. That's not just something that the product facilitates, but that's something that everybody who works here really lives and breathes. So I got a lot of people together very early on. We still get together quite a bit and that's been a huge unlock and not just building Navon's story, but actually building a global marketing organization. Now that you've mentioned having these different marketers from different places put together, having them understand and work in a way that has synergy, then what is your team looking like today?

6:34How have you been able to create a whole workforce that helps you out to get that result? So the team's about 50 people across the United States and EMEA primarily. The core pockets that we're in are where I am today in San Francisco, the Bay Area, New York, London. And we also have local marketers and markets like France and Germany. And it's been great to see those people work together. But I would say something you said. I'm like, I hope they help each other more than they help me. They certainly are helping me. But the best teams truly operate like teammates, right? They're not just helpers and pals with the coach.

7:17They're actual real teammates. And that means when someone falls down, metaphorically speaking, or when someone raises their hand for help, you get in the mix with the team. So that's a lot of how I spend my time thinking. It's not just how big is the team and what does the org chart look like, but actually how are we getting the most leverage from one another? You mentioned being in San Francisco States and EMEA. Do you guys, are you a remote first company or do you have headquarters in those different places where you're able to meet up in person and actually like create and nurture these relationships?

7:51Right. Decidedly, firmly an in-person culture. And I don't know if we could do what we do or have the culture we have without connecting in person. And I was a remote employee for five years before I came here. And there are great advantages. Like I see you might work from home some some days and I get it especially for for working parents. But we are in the business of facilitating in-person connections like to get on the road, close that big deal, interview that person in person, show them the office, close the candidate, like check out that agency. Like I'd be with you in person today if logistics allowed for it.

8:33But we believe that like that's how business thrives and investing in those connections is a real competitive advantage. So I'm in the office. My teams are in offices. We have a couple employees that that are remote and we open up that that possibility in a few pockets. But mostly people are in person. Of course. Now, I understand. And I would have thought that it would be a remote company due to the nature of what Navon does. But also I understand what you're mentioning, how you like to lead the team and the culture that Navon has. It really is helped out by the fact that it's in person and you're able to meet up.

9:09And it's I'm a remote worker, but obviously. But the thing is that I do understand that there's a lot that can be solved if you're just talking it over a coffee break. And instead of just having to slack and wait until the time zone of that person is available so that they're able to respond or anything like that. I know it does have its disadvantages. So it's pretty cool that you guys are taking that perspective nowadays. I really like that. Yeah. How do you like working remote? I need to ask you a question. No, remote. I love working remote because I'm down here in Argentina. So I live in Buenos Aires.

9:44And by working remotely, I feel a lot more connected to the rest of the world. And I get to meet people like you, people in Europe, people in different places. So I feel for me specifically, it is working very well. But I do understand the feeling of working in person because I did work for several years in a corporate job that I was in office. But I can't say I'm complaining about remote work. It's something I really love. Yeah, we'll see. Again, I come down to BA and we see how it works differently or better. Oh, you know, that's amazing. Have you been down here to Buenos Aires? I haven't. And throughout my career, I've traveled to some really interesting pockets of the world.

10:22like India, Africa, Myanmar, gone to a lot of niche places along the way, which I'm really grateful for, and very rarely have made it that far south of the equator. So there's a whole hemisphere that I need to get deeper on. But you never know. You never know where Nirvan will take you. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, this is as south as it gets. The other time I went to Ushuaia, which is the literal end of the world, it's the last place you can stop before you need to get on a boat and reach Antarctica. And I must say the feeling is crazy. But if you're ever down here, Erica, just let me know and I'll show you where the site is because it's beautiful.

10:59I'll book on Navon to see you there. I love that. And going back to the topic at hand. And Erica, do you have any examples or would you be able to talk to us about a campaign or a marketing stunt that Navon has performed that really has led to conversions or that is working very well for you guys now? Yeah. So I have to talk about our IPO. So we went public in October. Huge milestone for the company. The second time I had the opportunity to drive one of these fundraising events. And it's wild. I think I read somewhere or I heard somewhere that the chances of a company starting as a startup, basically, and going public are worse than the chances of getting struck by lightning.

11:48So a lot of people, especially in the Bay Area, you go chips in and you got to believe. But it's a pretty incredible opportunity to actually be able to see that milestone through, I think, especially for the employees who have been here even longer than me. But really a big part of the reason that it's such an attractive opportunity for companies is it's a big marketing event. You get to really put the company center stage. And if you sell to customers that are bigger enterprises like we do, I mean, we deal with some of the largest companies in the entire world. And it puts you on a stage and on a scale that really says, we're not kidding.

12:27We've arrived and we're here to stay. And we're sort of naked in terms of showing you everything about how we operate, everything about our financials. Like, we're out there. And we did a out-of-home takeover in New York. We bought a lot of billboards around major transit centers, so around the Newark Airport, around major subway lines, got a good amount of real estate around our office, certainly around the NASDAQ Center. But for that couple weeks around the IPO, we really wanted Navon to be as unmissable as possible if you were a person on the move. And a lot of the creative was really designed with the idea that we help those people on the move propel forward faster.

13:13And so it was all very contextual to the exact place it was in and this idea of forward momentum. Wow, that's amazing. And Erica, there's something that I still have a doubt about. So Navon is a B2B service that you sell to companies that they then allow their workers to use. But can an individual worker from a company that doesn't have a partnership or Navon approved, are they able to still use the app to help them out without the need of their company having to include Navon in their regular processes? Yeah, I'm so glad you asked this question. I'm going to say not today and give you like this awkward wink that I really hope that I really hope we talk again in the not too distant future.

14:02And we have a solution to offer for folks like you and others, because I think that there's a lot of love for this product. And right now, yes, Unlock is a business buying it and providing it to employees. But I think what we've seen that are really strong signals are a lot of employees then decide to use Navon to extend their business trip. We call that be leisure. So you end up going to New York City. Let's say you have family there, but you get your work stuff done and you use the Navon platform to extend that trip. Book a hotel on your personal card, which you can also have synced up through the platform.

14:34So we know that appetite's there. Also, you can even book personal travel with depending on what if your employer's enabled it. But a lot of our employers do enable personal travel and you can go on and get access to great inventory and plan your whole trip there. So there's some opportunities for adjacencies if your employee employer offers them. But I hope I think we all hope that one day Navon is the solution that every frequent traveler has no matter what to make travel easy. No, that's what I'm thinking because like the way you're describing Nirvana and the functionalities that it has, it's like it would be beautiful if I could download the app to my phone and it'd just be like to my boss or whoever needs to approve.

15:16Like, hey, I just sent it to you, BNNVN. Check it out. Let me know if it's looking good. And then we can just proceed. That would be like the most seamless experience that could be provided to the individual business traveler. In the meantime, any employee can send their employer an email and be like, hey, I heard about this amazing solution and I'm looking off platform like crazy. Maybe you should have a call. So that's the that's the immediate next step. I love that. I love that. And Erica, another topic that I do want to address, which is one that I try to speak with all the companies that we bring on the show, is the fact of how are you guys leveraging AI to make your processes a lot simpler or more efficient?

15:57Are you guys using it in any way that is more of a novelty? I know AI is very popular now to do the back end work, to read, but I'm just wondering if you guys have anything specific or new in the works. So I'd like to think that we're trying something new every week, if not every day with AI, and that there's such a flurry of activity and experimentation across the team that I don't even know about it all, probably. One of the leaders on my team starts their kickoffs with a prompt of how AI blew someone's mind that week. And I love that. I love that we're putting that challenge forward. And we've put that challenge forward so intentionally that there's not a lot of fear or awkwardness around it.

16:40We just try things and sometimes it doesn't work and sometimes it does. Because one thing that we've done recently that I think has gotten a lot of leverage is we trained an LLM on our brand voice. Oh, wow. So that's given the team a lot of skill because a lot of things would come into the marketing team. It's, hey, I wrote this. I want to publish it, but I'm not sure if it's our brand voice. And by putting it through this specific LLM, which has been fed a ton of content, a ton of guidelines, you just upload it through there and you're getting an output that is much more aligned. So the scale at which we can develop not just content, not just a volume of content, but content that's cohesive is really incredible.

17:23And of course, there's amazing things you can do with image generation and with video and with backend automation. But personally, I'm mostly just having a lot of conversations with AI. I talk to several AI tools in a day and I'm having conversations about all sorts of things. And that's sort of an ongoing test of like, wow, this is a really useful conversation. Thank God I had this tool. Like, whoa, didn't get great advice, but happy I asked. So it's I I'm on the verge, I think, of not even having to think about intentionally testing because it's just becoming such a part of life. But we're pushing that.

18:00And I think that we're not just picking up time, but the work is getting more interesting. The work is more interesting because there's you can look at a whole process end to end and say, where are the AI integrations in the whole process or across a whole portfolio, as opposed to just like deliverable by deliverable or like discrete campaign by discrete campaign. Of course, of course. Now, and I've seen what you're mentioning about the LLM that's been tailored to incorporate the company's language and how Navan speaks and what it represents. I think that's beautiful because it really does help get the workers aligned, as you mentioned, in, for example, not even the content that's created, but in just responses to customers or to people that are speaking with Navan.

18:45You can make sure that it always has that tone and that way of speaking that Navan would like to have. And I know of companies that are doing this, and I think it is so cool because it really helps optimize the process for somebody to actually reply and make it sound good instead of having to go back and just double check everything. That is really nice. Another interesting application that I'm excited about, too, is I think that AI is making it much more scalable for marketing teams to get deeper on the business faster. I think a dilemma that comes across with some marketing teams is getting so deep on marketing, but not having capacity or broad enough focus to get deep on the whole business.

19:29And a lot of businesses are complex. I don't fault anybody for that. But the scale of information that we're able to disseminate across our own team and across adjacent teams, because AI can be so effective in not just summarizing it, but in turning it into a podcast, that's increasing business acumen at a level that I'm really excited about. Because then we can, with a stronger business acumen and access to more information across the business, which traditionally very few people have had time to consume all of, it breeds more comprehensive ideas and interesting thinking. No, that's completely true.

20:07And people may not have time to gather the knowledge and upgrade their business and improve their business acumen just because they're so into their day to day that they feel they don't have time for it. But the condensation and the summarization that AI provides really helps digest all that you're mentioning. And I really do agree with that as well. And Erica, in terms of budget allocation, would you be able to shed some insight in how you're allocating the budget that's given to the marketing department and what you feel is most important and what you believe is something that could wait or does not need that much of an investment?

20:38Sure. So the primary thing that the marketing team focuses on here, where our goals are, is really driving demand for the product. So how are we reaching new audiences to let them know that Nirvana is available? How are we increasing their intent to buy? And how are we working alongside the sales team to bring more customers onto the platform? My team specifically focuses on those companies that are a bit more upmarket and hard to pin down that need pretty high frequency and a reasonably high touch sales approach. Like they're not just going to hit a button and sign up themselves. They want to talk to a person before they make the decision because the program is sufficiently sophisticated and mature.

21:19So most of my budget allocation is really going towards how do we reach those audiences? How do we unlock intent? How do we get them in the funnel for sales to close? We spend additional dollars thinking about how we protect our reputation. That's a lot of what we do with with comms, making sure that we're communicating with our customers in a way that lets them know all the new products we're launching and keeping them engaged. So there's lots of other things. But when I think about like what is the North Star priority, we got to create the awareness and demand for this product. Of course, you got to get everybody using Nivan.

21:53That's the goal. That's the game. That's the game. I totally agree with that and I love it. And OK, now let's talk a bit more about the future. And Erica, I'd love to know what is your priority or Navan's priority for 2026? Now that we're reaching the end of this year, what is the accomplishment or the goals you have that you could shed some light on for next year? Yeah. So I go back to just thinking broadly about like, what did I come here to do and how and testing myself of like, am I am I still focused on the right thing? And and there is still so much opportunity to get people on a travel and expense platform that is infinitely better than what they're using today.

22:39We're in a$185 billion total addressable market. There's a lot of antiquated solutions that people like me have put up with for a long time before they use Nivon. So if there's a question that I would love for each team member to ask themselves every day is, what am I doing to make sure that the market knows this is not just the best choice, but it's really the only choice if you are looking at a business travel and expense solution? I love that. it's the only choice and if there's ever any more it'll be the first option that ever was in the market so navan has a a place that has the lockdown that's amazing i mean and that's that's erica's view the only choice if you wanted someone like me to get their act together and start booking one platform so um so i mean i think to do this job you have to believe it you have to really believe that your product is the only one who can do what it can do in its market.

23:40And you also have to be willing to think about how to sell it all the time. You have to understand how your sales people sell it because they're the expert, but you have to want to sell it yourself. And that's the gas, right? That's the gas that... No, and I'm a witness that I am already sold by what you've told me, Erica. So I believe in the fact that you do really want to sell the Vaughn because it sounds amazing. It does sound amazing. And okay. And also, Erica, what do you believe is the future of marketing? And using your learning from the Vaughn and what your experience you've been able to gather, what do you believe is marketing going to evolve into going into the future?

24:26So the typical answer here is to talk about AI and how much more efficient we'll get. But I think we've covered that and I also think it's talked about plenty so I might take this in a slightly different direction to talk a bit more about creative trend lines a creative trend line that I'm I'm liking that I've seen some recent work on like EOS stands out as an example of like a return renaissance or like a nod towards mature humor and with and and riskiness that is mature so I'm not sure if you're familiar if anyone listening is familiar with this EOS campaign but they basically took out of home formats and they made them look like steamy showers and you're walking if you're walking around new york city you're waiting for us like it's hard not to look at like something that looks like a steamy shower right like that's what that catches your attention it catches my it's interesting um but i think it's like a elevated humor um and an elevated risque like i think one of the reasons why that or maze pain activation where they have the claw and you had to get there or maybe I guess because it's like it's it's a mature humor like it was kind of cruel but it was an elevated type of mature riskiness to it and I think that theme pulling through creative is is interesting and in in it gives me a sense of optimism about a lot of the direction of creative trend lines because it's it's obviously safe safe and easy to just explain your product or to create a sense of pause over a FOMO effect or fear like, ah, you're worried about this.

26:05The world is ending. Look over here. And I actually think if you can provoke thought, provoke inspiration and appeal to people, especially when you're selling a more elevated product and like a mature way that doesn't freak them out, but catches their attention is like, oh, yeah, that's like something clever that I'm going to. It's a difference to me between I'm going to spend two seconds thinking about it and I'm going to send 12 seconds thinking about it. Like that extra 10 is everything in terms of resonance. So that's a bit of what I'm seeing in the market that has excited me recently about the future of marketing.

26:43no i am i like i i do see what you mentioned because classical marketing people are bored of it nowadays it's like they really if they see it you'll just scroll through it or just maybe feel that it's something you've already seen before but pushing the boundaries of what is already being done but remaining classy with it is what i believe is what you're mentioning like it's a difference maker and it keeps your it keeps your head on it for the whole day it's like oh and you laugh about it when you remember it or then you just think about the thought that it provoked And I do believe that it is a great way to go and a perspective to have because honestly, getting people thinking, as you're saying, is a lot better than just capturing their attention for two seconds and then leaving.

27:25So I do believe that that is an accurate portrayal of what could happen with marketing, only that the companies need to be willing and need to have the taste to create those proper campaigns. that that's the thing i mean taste is you you use the word right because as efficient as we can get as velocity increases in quantity like taste is taste right and it's it's it's good like good unique taste and perspective is like the bullseye you you have you have to find for it's it's the difference of us talking you telling me like hey i saw this really cool thing today i mean you get exposed to a million different things today you're probably going to tell me about one of them like I'm going to tell you when we talk.