Why Outdoor Marketing's Aspirational Default Is a Trap

0:00Andres Figueira:We sell premium outdoor gear, whether it's ski, snowboard. We actually have a family of brands, so there's a total of like six different websites. It really is all about getting outside, and that's what we like to help people do.

0:11John St. Juliana:Does That Country, is this the brand that creates the clothing and the gear that you guys sell?

0:16Andres Figueira:We carry top brands such as Patagonia, North Face, but we also do all of the R &D and produce our own set of gear. Have you noticed any best practices that you disagree with? I think the outdoor industry in general has always gone with a top of mountain type of approach. It's always like very aspirational, I would say.

0:35John St. Juliana:What is your marketing philosophy with this type of industry?

0:38Andres Figueira:How do we just show up in everyday life and everyday activities as well, which I think will make us more relatable and I do believe is a differentiation outside of most of the competition in the outdoor space.

0:53John St. Juliana:Hey everybody, thank you for tuning in. My name is Andres Figueira, and I'm going to be your host for the day. This show is brought to you by the Global Talent Company, helping fast-growing teams hire exceptional remote talent from Argentina, South Africa, and beyond. We connect companies with world-class professionals who bring skill, reliability, and a global perspective to every role. And just for our listeners, we're offering an exclusive 10 % discount on your first hire. All you need to do is visit globaltalent.co, click start hiring, and mention the podcast listener discount when we reach out.

1:26John St. Juliana:And with me here today, I am speaking with John St. Juliana, Senior Vice President of Marketing at Backcountry, a company that is set on providing the best outdoor gear and to be the best doing it. With that said, John, welcome to the show, man. How are you doing?

1:43Andres Figueira:Yeah, hey, thanks. Thanks for having me. Doing well, doing well.

1:46John St. Juliana:We're so glad that we were able to make this work. And John, just so that we are able to put the audience a bit more in context here, would you be able to tell us more about your background, how you came to be the Senior VP of Marketing at Backcountry, and what Backcountry does in your own words?

2:02Andres Figueira:Yeah, absolutely. Background, I'm a math guy, so I actually have a math degree. So, you know, many paths in marketing for sure. And mine was all about the data. So math degree, man, I wrote six page marketing proofs in college and, you know, proving basic things with advanced theorems and stuff. Glad that's behind me. Definitely kind of found my way into business with that math background. And, yeah, started with data analytics, CRM and kind of just grew the grew the career from there. But definitely the analytic side of the brain versus the mass creative side of the brain. So I'm happy I have really strong, you know, strong teammates and team members on that side for sure.

2:48Andres Figueira:And, you know, as it relates to Backcountry, Backcountry, we sell amazing gear. So we sell premium outdoor gear, whether it's ski, snowboard, hike, climb, bike. We have it all. We actually have a family of brands. So there's a total of like six different websites, whether it's from power sports to cycling to deals, things like that. So it's a pretty big family and it's all about getting outside. It really is all about getting outside and that's what we like to help people do.

3:20John St. Juliana:That's amazing, man. And I love how Backcountry is, well, you mentioned it, it's like several brands. And my question is, in terms of what Backcountry represents, John, what is your marketing philosophy with this type of industry?

3:36Andres Figueira:Yeah, for us, one of our tags, if you will, is venture beyond. How do we help people get outside? With premium gear, we don't want to sell you something that's going to break down. So we want to make sure that it has very good quality to it. And that's that premium kind of positioning. And it comes out of more of a supporting people in the industry outside of anything else. It really is wanting to get people outside with really good gear. but then to go a little bit beyond. Our goat is part of our logo and it really just represents goats climb high and get into really gnarly places and we want people to be able to do that and whatever the next thing is, it could be, well, I'm going to run a 10K instead of a 5K.

4:23Andres Figueira:That's the next thing. It could be, I'm going to scale this amazing peak or I'm going to go backcountry skiing. Whatever it is, we want people to get out and do that.

4:33John St. Juliana:I am a fan of the outdoors and exploring and doing all different sports. But my question is, does Backcountry, is this the brand that creates the clothing and the gear that you guys sell? Or are you more of like a provider that takes different brands and sells those through Backcountry?

4:51Andres Figueira:Yes to both. So we carry, you know, top brands such as Patagonia, North Face and the like. but we also do do all of the R &D and produce our own set of gear. We call it backcountry gear and apparel. You can definitely find it on the site. We have some pretty fun ski kits, some limited edition colors, things like that. Sun protection, just like sun hoodies and sun protection in the summer is another popular product. So a little bit of both. And again, it's all in the, there's great gear out there. We think we fill a niche with the stuff we create. And it's just to, again, get people outside, get them moving and enjoy.

5:34John St. Juliana:Amazing. Amazing. And John, do you have any example of a marketing campaign that you ran for backcountry that went really well that you'd be able to tell us about and use as an example?

5:46Andres Figueira:Yeah. You know, holiday. Holiday obviously is a big deal for us. That's when people are buying. We get that. But our creative and content team, this last winter did an amazing job with really showcasing our holiday kind of gear guides and gift guides that we put together. But really that came together in a nice culmination of a 30 second spot that we were able to run on some linear TV. We also ran on streaming TV. We ran it on YouTube video. And so really utilizing that asset across multiple different platforms. One helps it scale and makes the investment worth it. But two, the campaign is typically well-received by customers.

6:27Andres Figueira:And then our creative team just knocked it out of the park this year, really connecting this idea of the world's largest gear closet that we like to think we have with you can get access to that online and it helps you get outside. So it was fun, it was playful, but it really also connected the dots so consumers realized, hey, I can shop this online. It's not just that country has this amazing stuff, but I can also go get it. So that CTA was just stronger this year and it really connected. So we took something that performed well, customers and consumers respond well, and I feel like we upped it just a little bit more this year.

7:00John St. Juliana:Amazing. And do you have or have you noticed any pattern in the demographics that you serve with backcountry? Is it like a certain age group, a certain type of person? Yeah. Obviously, you're an outdoorsy person, but uh-huh.

7:12Andres Figueira:Yeah. So, you know, the kind of, I mean, I've always ascribed to this averages are evil. So don't tell me what your average, you know, order size is. I want to see the distribution. That's kind of that math background. Right. So, so I try not to look at averages, even when it comes to demographics. but if we were to just kind of generalize the customer, it's a family. Usually there's two adults in the home with some kids, at least one kid. More affluent, I mean, we do sell premium gear, so the price points are a little bit higher and so it does generally take a level of income in order to really get into it.

7:50Andres Figueira:But again, part of that is we just wanna make sure we're selling really good gear. But yeah, it's typically a more affluent family. our male female split we skew a little bit more male but not terribly so it's close to 50 50 it

8:02John St. Juliana:skews a little more male but yeah no and i get what you mean when you mentioned that like more affluent families are the ones that are able to purchase these products but i feel that outdoor sports you need the best gear in order to do them safely and correctly and that is something that that it it's a an investment you have to do in order to be able to do these practices and these sports properly. So I totally need it.

8:26Andres Figueira:You don't want a plastic ski, right? You don't want a plastic ski, right? So there is this level of some of these sports just require a little bit more investment. That said, we're a retailer. We're running deals throughout the year and things like that. And so there's usually a point in time throughout the year that the product is attainable for everyone. It's not unattainable. And I guess I don't want to portray it as that. It's just it definitely is a little bit more affluent. But that's just because of the sport. You know, a Tahoe sun hoodie. Yeah, no problem. You can you know, that's that's not expensive.

9:00Andres Figueira:But getting skis or snowboards. Yeah, that just they cost money.

9:05John St. Juliana:So now I totally understand. And me, I'm originally from Venezuela. So I compare it to like kite surfing or wind surfing that you need this whole gear and important thing to be out in the ocean and doing a water sport that could be dangerous and even life threatening. if you're not using the proper gear. And it's like, you gotta be able to invest properly in what you wanna do. So I totally understand that, man.

9:26Andres Figueira:Yep, absolutely, absolutely.

9:29John St. Juliana:And John, have you noticed between the competitors that Backcountry may have and how the industry of outdoor sports and retail works, have you noticed any best practices or ways of marketing their products or their brands that you disagree with?

9:46Andres Figueira:Yeah, that's a great question. I think the outdoor industry in general has always gone with many times a top of mountain type of approach. And we just talked about how expensive it is. And there's this top of mountain approach of here's the epic line on the mountain that someone took from a ski or even from just the models that are shown and things like that. Right. It's it's always like this very aspirational, I would say. So like there's usually this very aspirational. and I think that inspires people but I think there's an element of being able to connect with people in reality as well and so that's something I will say we still very much show aspirational imagery and footage and things like that but that's one side of marketing as we think about events and partnerships and sponsorships and stuff that's where us being involved with something like the National Interscholastic Cycling Association, right?

10:47Andres Figueira:So like high school cycling, right? Like we're involved there. That's real. People aren't necessarily buying$10 ,000 bikes in order to compete in high school, right? And so we're very involved there, just being at the trailhead and things like that. We have work to do on the backcountry brand side of that. But like that's kind of the mission is how do we just show up in everyday life and everyday activities as well, which I think will make us more relatable. And I do believe is a differentiation outside of most of the competition in the outdoor space.

11:18John St. Juliana:Okay. I hadn't seen it in that way in which you just portrayed it. But I totally agree with that. And the fact that several brands I know that are outdoorsy, it's that. It's like a very aspirational campaign of a dude that looks like he's been climbing his whole life. And he's at the peak of a mountain and about to make it. And you're like, I'll never be there. Like, I'll never do that. So do I really need that jacket? Yeah.

11:40Andres Figueira:Yeah. Yeah. And again, like there's an element of that because I mean, and if you just work out, right, there's this element of whatever, it's a vision board or where you want to be. And so I think that is important, whether, you know, just marketing or life, like what's the objective, where do I want to be? And we really want to give people something to strive towards. So that's not going away. But I do think there's a balance that we can achieve or at least help balance the scale a little bit. And how we view that is maybe less in the videos and the imagery, but more just in how we show up in real life.

12:14Andres Figueira:And I think that's something that we're just continuing to talk about internally as well.

12:18John St. Juliana:And John, Backcountry is like our – you guys have physical retail stores, the online store. Do you guys only have and sell within the United States or do you also serve markets like Canada and South America or maybe Europe? Not sure what a country was doing there.

12:37Andres Figueira:Yeah, majority is U.S. We do ship some of the products internationally. And so we, you know, you can visit the site and we serve it. It's an opportunity, though, honestly, like just simple things. We can show currency and local currency versus U.S. currency. We don't do that today, but I think that's an opportunity. The EU is, you know, we don't sell to the EU currently, but majority of the world is available to visit the site. But it's just it's not our focus is what I would say.

13:10John St. Juliana:So your focus is to just expand within the United States and become like the leading brand in your home country.

13:16Andres Figueira:Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, balancing that a little bit, we do view international expansion as an opportunity. but it's, we still have so much room just to gain market share in the U.S. in our, kind of in our own backyard, if you will.

13:32John St. Juliana:Yeah, it's like trying not to bite more than you can chew when you're already just working on the States. So I would just try to like take up on the world later on when you've already dominated the U.S. It'll make it all that good.

13:42Andres Figueira:I mean, hey, we're trying to get the goat out there. There's a small shop in Chile that sells our backcountry gear and apparel. And so, you know, we're working on some avenues that way. So even if it's not through the website, are there wholesale opportunities or other retailer opportunities where we can distribute at least the gear that we make into those locations? So, you know, we're exploring things like that. But yeah, other than that, you know, it's very much U.S. focused.

14:09John St. Juliana:If any backcountry products arrive in Argentina, just let me know because I'm here waiting to get the best gear to go down to Patagonia every single winter. I could do snowboarding.