Lottie Tomlinson on family tragedy, embracing her body, and navigating anxious thoughts

0:01Coming up on Happy Mum, Happy Baby It's not been easy, but we've just stuck together. You moved back for a bit to be there for the little ones. Yeah, they were two. That's what hurts the most because Lucky's two now. I don't want to get upset, but the thought of having to leave him now, I just needed to be there for them, you know, because losing a mum at that age is just so sad and traumatising for them, you know. I know she would want to be a part of their lives even though she's not here. and the thought of her watching me talk about her to them, I think she'd love that. And with your siblings as well, seeing that family growing and expanding.

0:41It's crazy. Louis's got a little boy, I've got Lucky and Plossie and Pheebs has got Olive. It's like we're recreating, you know, what we grew up with with all the kids. It's so nice to be able to do it together. You're looking at your child and you're trying to work out what features they get from you and I'm like, actually, I don't know because none of my features look like me. I was like, I need to change this. I'm like, does he have my lips? I'm not sure, I can't remember what they look like. So I finished breastfeeding and I was like, I just need these fillers dissolving and it's the best thing I ever did.

1:16Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Happy Mum, Happy Baby. The podcast. Today's guest is an author and an entrepreneur, which I find that word really difficult to say, but I think I did it really good there. She's also the mum of two teeny tiny children. It's Lottie Tomlinson. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. Thanks for having me on. I'm excited to be here. I mean, I'm just impressed that you're here. You've got two little ones and Flossie is three and a half months old. Yeah. Do you know what? It feels like she's older. I don't know. Really? Yeah. I feel like, I don't know if it's because she's a second baby, it feels like she's always been with us.

1:49Yeah. And I think when you go from one to two, because you're already a parent and you're already in that routine, don't you think they just slot in so much better i guess it's i found that easier than naught to one yeah because your whole life's changing and it's all new figuring it all out whereas with flossy it's just like she's slotted in and yeah it's just normal yeah i love that and also maybe you're not worrying quite so much yeah yeah definitely and i think they feed off that so she's really calm compared to what lucky was yeah and i think that's because we're relaxed with her and I think with the second they don't get as much fuss because obviously, especially with the gap I've got because Lucky's two, so he obviously needs a lot of attention.

2:30So, you know, when she needs a nap, she kind of just has to go down and that's it. I can't be rocking her for an hour and Lucky needs me. So she's really calm and she's good at settling herself. It does make you look back and kind of go, how did I do that with the first? Oh, my God. I think back and I'm like, he used to make a sound and I used to be up and grabbing him. And like with Flossie, I'm like, I know she'll be fine. She's just, you know, stirring. I never knew about that active sleep. Yeah. You know, with Lucky, every single time he'd make a noise or, you know, stir when he was having a nap, I used to grab him and probably wake him up.

3:05And then I've kind of learned about that active sleep. And Flossie's always making these noises in her sleep. But I'm like, it's fine. She's just in active sleep. And then she'll just be asleep again. Oh, and also there's that whole thing of like sleep like a baby. Yeah. Babies are very loud sleepers. Oh, my God. In the night, it's like she's been quite a good sleeper from early on, which is a lot different as well for me. Lucky didn't sleep till he was like past one. But even when she does sleep well, it's like they're grunting. And I'm like, everyone's like, oh, just sleep when they sleep. And it's like, you actually can't.

3:36It's like having a mini pig. Yeah, we call her a little lamb. She makes like lamb noises, but it's cute. Oh, I love that. And also at the moment, you are in promo for your book that's now out in paperback, Lucky Girl. Yeah. I mean, we're going to dive into loads of topics from it anyway. But how does it feel having this book out? Because I know that you share a lot, but there are certain things that you haven't shared. And in the book, it's a chance for you to get all of your thoughts about what's happened over the last few years and your life down in a book form, in words that are yours. Yeah.

4:09I think with the book, it was really important for me to do because I wanted people to read my story from my perspective. and I've spoke a lot about grief but I don't think I've gone into detail about you know the whole experience from start to finish yeah but then at the same time I don't think I realized when I started it how difficult it would be you know because I feel like I've got to a good place with my grief and I think I'm you know I'm quite strong with everything but sitting down and having to really go into detail about all those moments it definitely took a toll on me but it's just so worth it because the amount of messages that I'm getting saying that you know my books help people and you know everyone is going through you know hard times not necessarily just grief but the purpose of the book for me was to show people that they can go through dark times and even if you feel like you know your life's on you know on the floor you're in a really bad place you can get through it and I just wanted my story to show that yeah so to be able to be that example to people is you know so worth the whole experience how did it feel actually getting the words down and then when publication day came around knowing that people were going to be reading them well it was also the rereading it back for me well I've listened to the audiobook yeah and doing the audiobook because that was really important I really wanted it to be my voice I think it's so important with non-fiction yeah yeah but then again that was a whole other saga of it all where it's like wow I've got to sit through this read it try and keep you know my composure yeah and also then yeah like when people are reading it it's scary because it's like a lot of you know you're opening yourself up to judgment aren't you and I don't know I feel like I was nervous for the reaction but I was so grateful that it was a good reaction and yeah it was a really positive response see I feel like with something that's long form like that it's almost personally I feel like it takes the judgment out of it because you're not like on a sofa being asked about something and you've got a few like a minute to say what you actually think and then you're on to the next question or you know you're I think there's a thing where you're constantly driven for time yeah right yeah whereas with a book you can express yourself fully yeah in that and really get across what you mean yeah and I think it's a beautiful book I really really do thank you and you know like you said just then it's that that thing of being in a place that so many people find themselves in of not knowing how you're ever going to have joy in your life again and then actually you have so much joy in your life yeah I think that's the thing like that feeling that I had when when I was going through them times and when I was at my lowest it's such an overwhelming feeling and that's what I thought I would never you know I thought I'd never be happy again I genuinely didn't and then when I have found this happiness that I've got today it just it it was like in my head you know it was like an alarm bell and I was like I really want to try and show people that this is possible.

7:05Do you know what I mean? And I think that's why it started me working with Sue Ryder because I thought, let me try and help work with a charity who are amazing for grief. The work you do for them is incredible. And I love working with them and they're amazing and the services they offer are amazing. And then obviously I wanted to tell my story a bit more, so that's where the book came in. And, yeah, just the amount of messages and the response that I get from people saying that, you know, it's helped them, it's just obviously it means so much. Are you surprised by how much you got from writing the book?

7:35I think I am because I feel like it was a freeing moment for me. Like I was able to let go of it all in a way. You know, obviously you never get over these things, but I think it's about learning to accept them. I think I've always said that. And as soon as I started to accept what happened, I really managed to, you know, find a lot of peace with the whole situation. And I guess the book helped me do that even more. I think there is that thing of when you're in a role where you can help other people through things that you've gone through, it does ease things in some way. It gives you a sense of purpose.

8:09And it also gives that grief somewhere to go, I think. Like, I think it started with my family. You know, I had younger siblings and I want to try and be there for them. That was me trying to channel that grief into something positive in a way. And the same with the book. Like, if I can make light of something so dark, then that changes everything. Yeah. The work you do with Sue Ryder is unbelievable. I love Sue Ryder. And I've only ever worked with Sue Ryder and I've been their ambassador for probably four years now. And I've done so many amazing campaigns with them and we've got another amazing one coming up.

8:45I mean, I went to Parliament. Yeah. I couldn't believe. I was heavily pregnant with Lucky and I went into Parliament. and just the work they do and it's so important because with my grief we never got offered any kind of support really yeah and I think that's why it was so important for me to try and be able to direct some people to find some support after my mum passed away and especially because that was a medical death there was never really a direction we were pointed in to say you know if you need any counselling or anything like that it was just like just get on with it and we were so young and that's got to be hard when you're one of the oldest of seven yeah you know how you feel yeah but knowing that the other siblings who you know you've got your own life you're down in london you're doing all these things whereas for them they're dealing with it all and they're so young with sue rider we just try and fight for that yeah you know direct support you know network that you can find and you know they offer counseling they offer free sessions and they stuff like grief cafes I never knew anything about that you know that would have been so valuable for me especially like moving to London and not having my family around me then I think grief's just loneliness isn't it because you feel so isolated in them feelings so being able to go to something like a grief cafe and just relate to people and it it would have been so good for me so hopefully I can show people that that's on offer absolutely let's talk about family life childhood family Yes.

10:19As I said, you are one of seven. Yeah. What is the age range? Like top to bottom, how many years between top and bottom? So oldest, he is 32. Yep. And youngest is now 12. Okay. So it was a big gap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My mum was really young when she had Louis, so she was only 19. Okay. And then obviously, so by the time the youngest ones came along, she was only like 42. Yeah. So it wasn't like a crazy age to have a child at all. But that's how it ended up spanning across so many years. But, I mean, growing up, it's just chaos, but in the best way. Well, it's that thing, isn't it? So you would have had, obviously, because your mum was married to your dad and then married Daniel, I want to say Daniel.

10:59So you would have had your bubble and then that thing of going into almost a maternal mode with the next set. Yeah, because I always remember there being new babies. You know, I was, I don't remember my sister, so Fizz, she was two years below me, so we were obviously close in age. but then I remember the twins the big twins and there's two sets of twins yeah which is just crazy so I remember the big twins coming along and it being really exciting because there was one each for me and Fizz we have to you know like siblings would usually fight over the new baby there was no fighting over the babies we just got one each and we both really took that like roll on we loved being big sisters and then when the little twins came along my mum had tried really hard for them they were IVF babies because obviously she remarried and Dan was younger.

11:47And she really spoke to you all? You knew what was going on? We knew what was going on because we were kind of at that age. She was doing the IVF and we knew how much they wanted to have a baby together. But obviously then it ended up being twins. But my mum just loved it. She embraced it. She was happy. But that is, you know, from everything I've read about Joanna, children seemed to be a happy place. It was. Family was a happy place. She was a midwife. That caring for other people. That was her passion was children. And it always, that's what I remember most about her. She, you know, would be on holiday and if there was a family and they needed help, she would be helping with their children.

12:20She couldn't get enough. And apparently she was like that from young as well. My nanny and grandad say that she'd just be off trying to care for the babies and stuff. So that was kind of her passion. And it was so nice to have that big family unit. Yeah. Was anyone else in your friendship group? Did anyone else come from big families? So your family, just the big family? The biggest, yeah. I didn't really meet anyone with as big a family as mine, especially having seven siblings. But I guess by the time the little twins came along, I was like 16 by then. So I was a bit older and I was starting to go off, you know, on the tour and move to London and stuff.

12:57So, yeah, it's crazy. It must have been such a weird time for your mum to kind of see, you know, the older ones going off on tour and then having these new ones at home. yeah yeah yeah do you know what i just remember when they were born and they were they were a bit early because they were twins and they were tiny they used to share the moses basket and they were both and we just treasured them so much because we knew the journey she'd been on to get them yeah you know and they were like they were just so special for that reason she's so rare i think for for children to understand yeah what their parents have gone through yeah i think because we was all a really close family yeah and we were all still living at home at that time and And we kind of, we were seeing her go through that.

13:38And we'd seen her go through losses as well. Because, you know, you can't hide when you're all in the house. And there'd been pregnancies that weren't successful. And so when she did get pregnant with the twins, and obviously it was still nerve-wracking until she got to a certain point. And once it did progress and the bump was there and it, you know, it was all going well, we were just so excited. So excited for them to be born. And just that insight of birth, you know, whether you were there or not, just you know just knowing all these things well I think that's what's given me I've always been so fascinated by birth yeah and having babies and I think that's why with with my pregnancies I've not been nervous about the birth because I've just been excited to actually experience that you know it was I think it obviously started with my mum yeah and then I used to watch all the you know one born every minute I was obsessed back to back yeah every single episode and I just I just love it I felt like at ease with the fact that I kind of knew yeah all the different you know possibilities that can happen and yeah just I just love people think I'm weird but I just love birth I feel like the very maternal side of your mum has definitely been passed on 100 % and also with her being a midwife I think that sparked a fascination for me as well she used to take us on to the ward sometimes and let's see the babies and yeah I think it all just rolls into one and And we're all quite maternal in the family.

15:00Yeah. Well, it's that thing of having such a big family as well, how that is the focus. Especially being the second oldest as well. I've always had the younger babies. Yeah. You've said of your mum that she was your pillar. That's such a beautiful thing to know that you had such a close connection. Yeah. You know, well, I can't even imagine what it's like to lose someone so close to you at such a young age. Yeah. I think when we found out mum was ill, it was just too hard to even process or even imagine that she wouldn't make it. Well, you were all told that it was going to be absolutely fine, that it was treatable.

15:42Yeah, and I think looking back, she probably sugarcoated the situation because she wanted to protect us, which I understand. But then when it came down to it, the last few weeks you know that's kind of the only time we kind of started to realize that this is you know she wasn't going to be okay yeah and so to lose to lose her that it felt sudden do you know what I mean because the build-up we we had so much hope you know that she was going to be okay and I think you've got to hold on to hope when someone's ill and she was so strong she didn't want anyone to know she was ill she said she was going to fight it and and it was going to be okay and so we were just you know we that was our mum we take her word for that and she's always been right about things so yeah to lose to lose her like that suddenly was just it was just such a like shock and it's like the center of everything you know it's gone and like I always like have this kind of picture in my head it's like then everything else falls apart and I feel like we've just spent you know the last few years since it all happened just trying to rebuild that and it's not been easy but we've just stuck together as a family and and we've tried to you know look after each other and I think we you were getting there we're rebuilding everything and it's just sad that she's not here with us yeah well again you took on the maternal role you know I know your nan and granddad moved into the to the house yeah but you you moved back for a bit to be there for the little ones.

17:14Yeah, because they were two and like that's what that's what hurts me the most when I speak about it is because Lucky's two now I don't want to get upset but I don't know the thought of having to leave him now like you know it's I just needed to be there for them you know because losing a mum at that age is just so so sad and traumatizing for them you know and I think Lucky is so such a mummy's boy and he's so attached to me so like just putting myself in that situation which you naturally do I just couldn't imagine like for him if I wasn't there now um but hopefully me being there for them might have you know closed that gap for them a little bit and that's just what I wanted to do and yeah yeah absolutely like we say grief isn't something that's gonna no just disappear no and I think I feel stronger with it when I do get emotional because it shows me that you know I'm not bottling it up and that's something I've always spoke about as well I spent the first few years of my grief really hiding from my emotions and because it's too painful also being being the oldest daughter was there a feeling of having to hold it together yeah I guess that was a part of it you want to be strong and I think naturally as a human being when something's too painful you push it away and it was so painful and I'd find myself just if it crept in I would just want to avoid that altogether because it was so painful and then it would get to a point where you can't there's only so much you can push down and I'd get I'd get to the point where every few months I was having these big meltdowns where I was just you know inconsolable and it was just horrible so learning to kind of I can have this moment now and then it means in six months time I'm not having a huge meltdown and it being harder to cope with yeah absolutely it's hard isn't it because it's that thing and I imagine with the with younger kids it's that thing of wanting to be strong yeah whatever that means yeah uh for them and and allow them their grief yeah but also showing them that you're grieving and that that's okay like we sometimes have to model that behavior to make it okay yeah and I think it's important to be honest with with the kids even though they're young I found that you know trying to explain it in all these special ways to try and protect them and it not be as you know shocking and all that stuff it only hinders them in the long run because then they're trying to figure out years down the line you know what does death mean and why aren't they here and what happened to them so I think we've always just tried to be quite matter of fact with the kids about it and just really talk about them all the time so they're not feeling like it's this you know horrible sad which it is but we don't want it to be in their life something that we only bring up every you know once a year and we all cry about it we we bring it up you know all the time and even Doris which is the one of the little twins I know me too so Doris when when we have her she every time she wants a little picture of mum in front of her when we eat and she does that off her own back and it's not a sad thing she's just like where's my picture of mummy she wants that and she wants to use mum's old old old cutlery set that my nan still has and it's nice you know it's a positive thing for them rather than it is sad of course but for them they were too so they obviously don't remember much but we just want them to know about her and know that you know that they were so loved and we want them to feel her you know we were so lucky to have all the values we've got from her so we want to give that to them well it's also a promise that you made your mum yeah that you know they would absolutely yeah always remember her yeah yeah yeah absolutely when it comes to having your own family coming from a big family I feel like it makes people go one of two ways yeah either absolutely not or absolutely yes i i want that yeah my version of that in my future i definitely want that really and i mean after one i think when they're babies and you're like oh i could do this again and again again and then they get a bit bigger and you're like oh i need to i need to be careful here i need to let them you know get to a decent age so lucky got to a good age and i don't know about you but i just got this urge and i i I remember Lewis saying to me, why is now the right time?

21:53Why do you think now is right? I was like, I can't explain it, but I need another baby. A bedroom now. Yeah, I cannot stop thinking about it. I need another baby right now. And I don't know how many times that will come back. Yeah. I'm worried. So before even meeting Lewis, when you looked at your future, how many kids did you think you were going to have? I always said five because my mum had five, and obviously before the little twins, because she met someone else and wanted more children, then it ended up being twins. So having seven probably wasn't always in her plan. She probably wanted a big family, but yeah, that's a bit much.

22:28So I always kind of thought like four or five would be nice. And I'm still kind of, I mean, Lewis wants three. You sound quite disappointed. Yeah, I'm hoping I can squeeze one more in. Maybe the next one will be twins. Yeah, that would be good. And get them both out the way at once. Yeah, there we go. There we go. So when you met Lewis, did you two talk family straight away? Is he from a big family? So he has got one brother, but his brother's got three children. And they've got a lovely family. So we always kind of related on that because I had my big family and he obviously saw his brother, who he looks up to, with his children.

23:06And we had always spoke about that. But obviously early on in a relationship, you don't want to scare each other off. But I think as we progressed, we definitely both realised that we both wanted children. But yeah, like I say, he'd probably be happy to, well, I say that, but he has already started saying, oh, we've got to have another one. Really? Because we love it so much. You know when you just look at your children and you're like, how can I not? I just want to see what you would create another time. It's just amazing. Also, I think there's that thing of once you've gone to two, I think when you have the one, you're like, how could I possibly love another child in the way that I love you?

23:43But then you have that other child and your heart expands somehow. Yeah. So knowing that makes you go, well, I can add to this. Yeah. Because there's just more love. Yeah. It makes you more confident that, yeah, you can do it. Yeah. Yeah. You had a plan. So you bought a house, you were renovating. And in your mind, let's finish this renovation and the next year will be the time that we focus on babies. Yeah. So that was the plan. obviously nothing ever goes to plan does it I bought this house and I was renovating it and I remember when I was buying the house I was I was looking for something that was all done to you know my my kind of taste and I remember Lou my friend Lou Teesnell that I've been friends with for years she said why don't you buy a Dewar upper and I was like I don't think I've got that in me I don't think I can do it she was like you can you can do it and I was like actually maybe I can do and I feel like that represents our friendship really.

24:33She's kind of been that person for me that tells me... Give that nudge. Give me that confidence that I can do it. So I found this property and it was perfect for a doer-upper. It was all flat-roofed and I was like, I could make this really villa-style and nice. So anyway, I bought the house, started doing it up and fell pregnant. But in my head, obviously naively, I've never done up a property or anything like that. I thought, I've got nine months here that I'll easily be able to turn this around and get in there and it'll be perfect. You know, we'll get in, have the baby, bring him home to the fresh house.

25:06We didn't move until he was one. No! It took two years in the end. It's just never, it's just always double, isn't it? I feel like renovation and building work and anything like that is that thing of you set out one plan. You just don't know what you're going to find when you're doing it. But tell me about the moment that you did realise that you were pregnant with Lucky. So Lucky was a shock. Yes. I mean I say shock I mean I knew it was a possibility but it was still a shock you know I was living we were living our life single well not single but we was like you know footloose yeah baby free going out you know drinking a lot having fun and then I was using the app yes you know the tracking yeah yeah because I've never really got on with the contraception they all you know they They all have a negative effect, don't they, a lot of them?

25:55And I thought, I'm just going to try the, you know, the tracker app and should be fine. And I checked my app one morning and it said five days late. And I was like, oh, that's weird. So I did a test, obviously come up pregnant. And I was like, oh, my God, I was crying. I was just so shocked. How did you feel in that moment? What were the tears from? It was shock and nerves and just that feeling of am I ready for this, you know? and then I was kind of nervous how he would react and I ran in there straight away. I couldn't do the whole surprising one. I was like, what's up? This isn't an Instagram moment.

26:31I just need to tell you. No, there was none of that. There's no footage. I was just running, crying with this test and he was like, what's wrong? And I was like, I don't know. You know that our whole life's going to change. Are you ready for this? And he's like, yeah. He had no doubt. And then it literally takes a few days and your mind just starts to... I just started to plan my life around this baby now and, you know, the baby's like the size of a grain of rice but you just start bonding, don't you, straight away. Also, I think it's only in moments like that that you kind of look back. I wonder if you look back at what your mum would have gone through with the younger set of twins to kind of...

27:09In your mind, you might have been thinking, well, I don't know what that's going to look like in terms of how easy it's going to be to get pregnant. Yeah, exactly. So kind of looking ahead to the future, kind of going, but next year we might be up against all these different things, but actually now it's happened. Yeah, it just felt like it was meant to be, you know, and once I got my head around it and had a few days to digest it, I was just so excited because at the same time I'd been so, you know, fascinated by pregnancy and birth and I was like, I was pregnant myself and I knew I'd always wanted to be a mum.

27:41I'd always been excited to go through the pregnancy, so I was just so excited after that. How did you tell the rest of the family? um I think basically I found out I was pregnant three weeks before Christmas no so I was like I felt it felt too early to go up because we go up for Christmas I was like felt too early to tell everyone but I remember going up up north for Christmas and my sisters Phoebe and Daisy the older twins we were all you know together and I was like I just can't I just can't contain it I was like and they were like you're pregnant aren't you they were crying they were so happy they'd been wanting me to have a baby I feel like we all everyone was kind of looking towards me for it was the first kind of bit of positive news we'd had you know since the losses because actually what we haven't said is that you also then lost your sister only a few years after your mum yeah so there's so much sadness and grief yeah you know and to have a baby coming into the mix of that when you've gone through loss I think new life then becomes even more special because it's like you know you're so you're so aware of how quickly things can change and it just felt so special to be you know bringing new life into the family and having good news for once and so I told them then but I was like I don't want to tell anyone I'm literally like a few weeks along I hadn't had a scan or anything.

28:59At least with them as well they can talk to each other about it. Yeah they didn't have to like tell one person just so that someone else knows. Just keep telling each other. Yeah yeah YouTube chat about it but no one else and then I waited till I was like 10 11 weeks and I was a bit further along and then I just told them all individually and it was do you know what back then it wasn't such a big thing to to do the Instagram like now everyone you know is filming and doing these cute reels which is so nice but I didn't I didn't do any of that with Lucky I remember looking back thinking oh I wish I'd filmed it all but I think I was still quite in shock with the whole thing and it was quite hard for me to even digest it so I wasn't in mindset of filming it yeah do you know what I mean absolutely but yeah everyone was so excited

29:50how did the rest of that pregnancy feel I loved the pregnancy in a lot of ways but I found it difficult because my body changed a lot and I'd always and you've had a difficult relationship with your body yeah definitely I think doing Instagram stuff from early definitely had an effect on me in terms of my body image and just image in general you say in the book as well I talk about it a lot in the book fillers whatever beauty treatment was out there you were trying it yeah and I think that stems from you know being on Instagram from an early age and especially the nature of you know Instagram is to get you know put that content up looking good and then I started comparing myself to all the other you know influences out there and I was so young as well I was at that age where you're so impressionable and you're just figuring things out and so I'd already had a bit of a difficult relationship with you know body image and stuff and I'd lost quite a lot of weight early on so I kind of carried a bit of extra weight as a younger girl and then started to have to picture myself so I wanted to make some changes and I did and I was happier so then I'd kind of worked hard for that did you feel after everything that you felt happier or was it until that new thing came along and you're like actually I'll try that now I felt like it was making me happy you know losing the weight and feeling slimmer definitely made me feel better in myself but in terms of the the fillers and the beauty treatments it it was just a never ending thing of trying to catch up with yourself and like I think as well when you lose someone as close as like your mum it affects your confidence a lot and that's something I never expected because if you think about it your mum is the one person that cheers you on that loves you unconditionally that's there to give you that you know reassurance and support so when you lose that you kind of lose that you know confidence in yourself so I think I was constantly chasing trying to find that confidence thinking I would find it in these you know fillers and how I looked but I think what's genuinely given me my confidence is having my kids because you just realise that it's not important.

31:58You know, I still like to look nice, I still like to get my hair done. You're a beautiful woman. But I just, it's not as important to me as it once was and I'm so comfortable now to just be in no make-up, have my hair up. Well, and pregnancy was one of those big things, right, because you couldn't have treatments or certain treatments whilst pregnant. Yeah, that's the thing. I think that's why I struggled at first because obviously you can't have half the stuff done that you get done. And there was a lot of where I was gaining a lot of weight because I think my figure naturally is bigger. And also because I'd spent years probably restricting myself to try and get that figure, when I did fall pregnant, I was like, this is my time to shine.

32:35Like, I'm going to do whatever I want. And obviously I took it to the extreme. And look, I don't regret it at all. You know, I think your body obviously tells you what you need and I had a healthy baby because of it and I wouldn't change it. But then when I did have him, I was left, you know, forced down. Was that also a shock? I think when you put on that weight and you're pregnant, I don't feel like you feel like... You don't feel it as much, do you? But as soon as the baby's out and you're... And also you're a bit swollen after giving birth. So, you know, you aren't going to look like you are in a week.

33:07Yeah. But there is that shock of, oh. Oh, it's still there. And it's everywhere. It's not just the bump is still there, but everywhere it's still swollen. I was the same. And I actually didn't mind myself when I was pregnant because I really loved my bum. It all looks proportionate, doesn't it, when you're pregnant? And then when I had him, I was thinking, oh, my clothes, I don't know what to wear. You know, nothing fits and I don't feel myself and my face. And it was all swollen more because I had all the filler. And that's why I wanted to remove it once I did have him. Yeah, because I just, towards the end of the pregnancy, with the weight gain and with the swelling from just pregnancy, my face, my lips, everything had just blown up.

33:48And I was like, I can't look like this. What have I got? And obviously it gives you a lot of time to reflect, doesn't it? And obviously when you have a baby, your priorities change, don't they? And also you see the beauty in life and in humans. Oh my God, you do. And all those things that you want to pass on, you want them to know that they are beautiful as they are. Yeah, and there's even a sense of like you're looking at your child and you're trying to work out what features they get from you and I'm like, actually, I don't know because none of my features look like me. I was like I need to change this I'm like does he have my lips I'm not sure I can't remember what they look like let's get another picture up yeah and so I was like look I have to wait till I stop breastfeeding so I finished breastfeeding and I was like I just need these fillers dissolving and it's the best thing I ever did really I feel like having the kids and doing that really helped me find my true confidence so I think you trick yourself don't you like I was getting all these fillers the treatments and I was thinking I feel good about myself now like uh but it's all hiding you know I had the big huge lashes hiding my eyes I had my brows on and you know the big lips the big cheeks and it was just it wasn't me you know at all and I think because I had it all so young my face hadn't even like developed really like it hadn't even settled into what you know what it was going to be as an adult so when I actually dissolved it I was like actually I don't really need all this like I just want to embrace myself yeah and you've got beautiful lips yeah they're fine I don't even know honestly I think one of my first jobs was a lip and a nail like a lipstick and a nail varnish there and that I remember that being the first thing like I was applying these lips and I was thinking this would look better if I had a bit more plumpness you know really yeah and I was only 16 so plump also you're a make but like you know how to put things on but it was just that era as well.

35:37Everyone was doing it and it was so accessible. Like, I remember the place where I used to get like my lashes done, they were like, oh, there's an aesthetic nurse that comes in this day a week if you want, you know, and it was easy. Didn't have to show my age or anything. It is scary. It is really scary and it's also that thing of what's the trend at the time. Like, you know, when I was in my late teens, early 20s, it was all about tanning. Yeah. You know, you didn't question anyone when they were going, I'm going, go on the sunbed for five minutes. Yeah. and that's the thing I think it kind of happened at a perfect time so I had had lucky and I wanted to get rid of it all but also the trends were moving into much and more natural era yeah so it all worked yeah and but it's the best thing I ever did I look back and I just cannot believe I just can't believe what I used to do to myself yeah awful too much how did you feel heading towards the birth I was just excited like I said I was excited to give yeah because I guess it's not something that's like this mythical thing like in some your mum's you know talked about it it felt really natural to me and yeah i was also just so ready to meet him i'm very impatient as a person like i wasn't one of them that was just like oh yeah you'll come when he's come i was thinking i need this baby al i actually ended up being induced in the end for reduced movements because i think i was just getting beside myself with everything and you know quite early 37 weeks 37 plus four So it was fairly early, but I was just so excited to get him out.

37:06I was done. I was like, I can't do this anymore. But you felt really positive about going into hospital. So I guess you knew when you were going in that you were going to be staying in for a while as well. Yeah, so I'd heard, obviously, a few negative stories about induction. It doesn't always go to plan. So I'd kind of read up on how best to get the induction moving. and the general thing was to just keep yourself moving so stay active and I took that very seriously so I got in there and they did the first gel and I didn't I was pacing with the room I was bouncing on the ball I was walking up they let me go out for a walk and I just I just didn't stop moving they thought I was crazy and then it didn't do anything the first one so you have to wait six hours and they did another one right nothing I was contracting but no dilation they couldn't even like get half a centimetre and I was like oh my god what the hell and then that was towards the evening and that's really hard as well because your body because you have that feeling of it's not it's almost you can tighten up again and they were like look go to sleep but if there's nothing kind of happening overnight we may have to do a c-section or you're just gonna have to wait because they can't keep doing these gels I remember thinking which is probably is a coincidence but I remember thinking I wish my mum would help me with this because I thought she would just you know guide me through this and I was a bit annoyed I was a bit angry I said to Lewis I was like come on let's go on one more walk I did this huge walk curve walking curve walking and I could feel I could feel him coming down really and then I got back and they gave me a pethidine is it pethidine injection because I was in a bit of pain because I was contracting but obviously not dilating went to sleep and in within an hour my waters popped and i was like oh my god and five hours later he was here it was so quick because i feel like i'd done that kind of work to bring him down so when the waters went that was it and he came and yeah he was a bit floppy when he came out because i think because of that pethidine injection they say that can go through to the baby right so it was a bit scary when he came out he wasn't breathing when he first came out he was breathing but he wasn't crying so they knew he was breathing but he was just really not with it, flopping.

39:27Oh, it's awful, isn't it, if anything like that happens. They put him on my chest quickly, then they quickly took him off and tried to sort him out and people were running in and it was scary but it was quick, he came round quick. Oh, God. How did it feel to suddenly have this baby, your baby, in the room with you? It was just the most amazing feeling, overwhelming. I mean, for me, they told me that he was a big baby. Right. So I was having growth scans at the end because they were saying... And Lewis is a big guy. Yeah, and they were saying he was big, so I was kind of preparing for this big baby.

40:05And then they put me on him. He was the tiniest thing. I didn't think... I thought they'd given me, like, the wrong baby. He was tiny. He was only£6.08. Oh. So, yeah, just for anyone out there that's getting... Because they do scare you, don't they, sometimes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. With these growth scans, they're not always accurate. No, they're not. They told me it was going to be like£8 plus, but I think I just had a lot of water and stuff. What did your birth plan look like? I didn't have a birth plan. You didn't? No, because I knew how quickly things could change and I didn't want to go in there with a plan.

40:35My only plan was I wanted the epidural. Okay. I was like, I just want to be numbed. I applaud the women that can do it and I wish I could, but I knew I didn't want to get to the point of agony. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I just thought, that's on offer. Why not do it? And it was the best decision because I think that's why I enjoyed it so much. Well, you have loved both of your births. Yeah. You've said that they're a really positive experience. Yeah. I was very lucky that they are. Yeah. You know, with Flossie, it was even better because I didn't get induced. So it kind of, well, I didn't get induced, but they broke my waters.

41:17Right. So I was already two centimetres and I had a bit of an issue with my liver and they don't really want you to go past 40 weeks. So I was 39 plus 5. Right. And they were bringing me in weekly for my bloods to monitor things. And they were like, we've checked you and you are two centimetres. We can probably get in and break your waters if you want to just come in tomorrow and get the baby out just to be on the safe side. So I was like, great, I'll do that. And it was a much easier experience than the induction because once you're already kind of dilated, they just got in there, popped my waters and eight hours later she was born.

41:49and I loved it. I don't know why, I just love the whole thing. Really? Yeah. It's just, it is such a special thing though, isn't it? Like, I don't know, just pushing a baby out and then they put the baby on you. It's just, I loved it. How did that moment feel when Lucky arrived with you and Lewis? You know, how did, because I think it's such a unique thing as a couple to go through and it's such a personal, beautiful thing. Yeah, I think it just, it strengthens your relationship so much because you see such a vulnerable side to your partner. Obviously, I'd seen a vulnerable side before, but seeing him hold like his baby, his son, it was, yeah, it was an amazing, amazing thing to see.

42:35Yeah. And you found out with both of them as well what you were having. Yeah, I can't, I'm impatient. But we have said if we have a third, we're going to have a surprise because we've got one of each. Yeah. So really, it wouldn't matter to us what we're having. So we didn't find out with any of ours, but when I was pregnant with a third, I was a bit like, do we want to know? Yeah. Do we? Do we? But we didn't. Oh, so you were all surprised. Yeah. I love the idea of it. And hopefully, if I'm lucky enough to have a third, I'll get that experience as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's a fun moment when they're out and it's like, oh!

43:10Do the midwives shout it out? No. Do they give you that choice? I guess it's a choice. So Tom, I think it was one of those things of, what is it, Dad? Yeah, yeah. That would be nice. I'd like that if Lewis could tell me what it is. Yeah. How was your recovery? So, without going into too much detail, I did have a little cut both times. And that's probably the hardest part of the recovery, you know, just being a bit sore. Did you tear or cut? First one was a cut and second was a tear. Which did you find easiest to recover from? I think the second one, the tear. I don't know why. I don't know if it's because I'd done it before and I kind of knew what to do.

43:54The best thing that I did with Flossie for that, the doctors told me not to have a bath at all. Right. And I was thinking, oh, that's a shame because, you know, after birth, you just want a nice bath, don't you? Yeah, you feel clean. And then the health visitor came and she said, get in the bath, put a bit of milk and a bit of lavender in the bath and soak in it. and I was like, oh, they told me not to have a bath and she was like, no, honestly, they do, but just do it. I recovered so quick after that. I can remember second time around finding something brilliant like that and then third time around going, what was it?

44:25Oh, you couldn't remember it. But even now I'm telling that story, I'm thinking, how much milk was it? I can't remember. How deep was the bath? But yeah, something along the way. But there is things like that, you know, I was obsessed with the expert midwife spritz for bits. Oh, yeah, that's so good. I've bought it for other people. when they've given birth. Just something to make you feel calmer. Yeah. A bit more sorted. It is a lot, isn't it? Yeah. But I think the hardest bit post for me is the emotions. Yeah. It's the anxiety. Like, I remember with Flossie, for me, I'm lucky because it only lasts about a week and then it all starts to ease.

45:09but even that week feels so overwhelming and like I remember thinking with Flossie this would put me off having another baby because it's so it's just like consuming well you say in the book that with with Lucky you cried for five days straight yeah what was it like with Flossie similar yeah it was it was a bit better and Lewis said that I've been better with Flossie but it felt do you know what it is it's just so overwhelming and I feel the worst part for me is it's just like a fear of something going wrong and something happening to them and you're so protective over this little life and there's so much coming into your head that could go wrong and it's silly it's obviously the hormones that don't help and I think that hormone drops so so hard for your body to kind to cope with my mind just goes to these weird places like I started to imagine Flossie as an old lady and it would just make me cry and he's like why are you worrying about that babe and I'm like I don't know one day she's gonna be old and I won't be here and like you just I don't know if you experience anything like that I I had a moment um I think it was the same day that my milk came in yeah first time around and i was in my head i was a fetus really yes and i was like why is everyone just leaving me here what's going on your mind just goes to these crazy places and i just like silly things like i would i was starting to think like oh one day like someone might be mean to them at school and i think it's just the thought of them anything bad happening to them at all yeah it's just so overwhelming because you're just so in love with that baby yeah and I imagine with with everything you've been through in the years leading up to Lucky's arrival I think that made it worse yeah yeah because you're so much more aware of things that can go wrong and how quickly things can go wrong yeah and I think um with with what happened to me the worst case scenario happened and I think that's what you constantly tell yourself that won't happen and that's what kind of helps your anxiety isn't it like what's the worst case scenario this is gonna happen and that won't happen and you deal with it but for me that had happened twice and you know and so I think that's why it was so much harder for me to deal with those thoughts that were coming in about something going wrong because I was thinking that could happen that has happened it's gonna happen again yeah I couldn't even sleep with the light off at night when I first had them because I needed to see them I thought someone's gonna take someone's gonna take him I won't see or if if you know if they're choking or something I won't see like it's really hard to it's really hard to settle into that feeling isn't it like those new emotions and the new worry that comes with having a baby but I am lucky because it did pass like two or three weeks in I felt like a different person really both yeah and even second time round was there because of because of how you felt first time around did you put things in place or were you just a bit like ah it won't happen again I didn't think it would happen again naively and I thought you know I've dealt with it once I'll be all right you know it was a week and that was it but I remember with Flossie every day that passed I remember saying to Lewis do you reckon tomorrow I'll get through the day without crying like I just didn't want to go go there you know I wanted to just feel better and I guess you put pressure on yourself to feel I was like he was like hey you've just given birth like it's okay you know you're not going to feel a hundred percent yourself yeah but yeah I didn't think it would happen again but it did but it's you know in the grand scheme of things it's not it's not long I'm lucky because I know a lot of women aren't as lucky and you know for so many that can carry on and I'm just pleased and blessed that that only lasted me a short spate of time yeah absolutely let's talk breastfeeding because you breastfed with both?

49:06Yes. How was that? So I've always wanted to breastfeed. I guess it goes hand in hand with this fascination I've always had for, you know, birth and pregnancy. And it just seems so natural, doesn't it? Like, I always thought, I didn't even realise that there could potentially, you could potentially have an issue with breastfeeding. I didn't know. Yeah. So when Lucky came, even when I was getting asked, did he latch? Did he latch? Has he latched? I was thinking i was confused by the question because i was like i thought they just do yeah so then when he didn't i was heartbroken i was so upset and i think that didn't help with all the emotion stuff he just wouldn't latch and it's also a very big thing when you're in hospital and you know you've got so many women who are incredible yeah trying to help you but it's that thing it's very exposing like yeah just having a different woman come in grabbing your boob and sticking the baby on Wheeze it, get the nipple in the back.

50:04And how you have to hold a baby's head and that first bit. Nothing about it. You're weak. Yeah. It was so hard and I was so upset. And then someone suggested the nipple shields. And that saved my breastfeeding journey. Exactly the same. But it didn't, I never got him to latch on the nipple. Really? And I wish I'd got more support. I think I should have, you know, got like a lactation. Yeah. Nerve. Yeah, consultant. But I don't know. I feel like I was just lost with it all and I used the shields and he was happy with them and so I ended up doing seven weeks with the shields and then I think the reason why I couldn't carry on is because I found it really difficult in public because putting them on.

50:44Putting the shields on and taking them off is really really hard. You have to stick them and like you know with when you're breastfeeding in public you just want to kind of pop them on discreetly don't you? Yeah but they require a certain amount of suction don't they? Yeah. So you have to put them on in a certain way. You can't just you've got to like fully get your boob out. Yeah. Get that stuff on in the right place make sure the milk's flowing into that I was thinking oh my god for both I felt like they were cut short quicker than I would have liked but was flossy the same so I did her for six weeks she latched but she had such a painful latch like I was crying through every feed yeah both nipples were bleeding and scabbed like it was crazy and I think I didn't oversupply because my boobs would just be so big and leaking at all times really yeah like I used to put the suction on the other one when I was feeding and I used to get like that much milk just from the letdown like it was crazy.

51:36So I kind of got to six weeks and I was like, we started introducing a bit of formula and she was happy with that and she started sleeping better and it kind of just fizzled out. How were you emotionally both times when you'd made that switch? Oh my God, with Flossie, awful. Really? For a week I cried. But that's so hard because you would have been in so much pain. Yeah. It's not, you know. It was the right decision for us to stop because I wasn't happy. She also had bad reflux and the milk, the breast milk, was thin and it was making her throw up loads. So when we put her on anti-reflux formula, she was keeping the formula down and she was fuller and happier.

52:18And it felt like the right decision, but I didn't feel like I was ready. Almost like it's been robbed of you. Yeah. And I still feel like that, to be honest. Yeah. And I said to Lewis, I said, when I have a third, I want to make sure that I do it at a time when I can focus everything onto that baby because I don't want to cut my breastfeeding journey short the next time because it affected me so much mentally. And I think, obviously, partly having Lucky played a part in it because I felt so guilty that no one else could feed her while I played with him. He's so attached to me. And, you know, every time she was on the boob, which is obviously relentless at the start.

53:00They just want to be on all the time. Having to say no to him when he wants me to play, when he wants me to get him a snack, when he just wants to chat, and I'm feeling flossy. The guilt from that was really affecting me mentally. And obviously getting back into work, I like to get back into work, and I had a lot of projects on, so I kind of felt like it was cut short. So next time I want to do the full year, hopefully, full like year-long journey and also know that you just have to be kind to yourself like you know what happens happens but also your nipples that that's such a like anyone who's ever attempted to breastfeed or has breastfed they they know that feeling they know you know even the burn of the let all of that yeah everything yeah and you you feel like you said you feel there's so much pressure isn't there being that sole person that's keeping the baby like fed and happy I went on a breastfeeding course before having my first so I in the same way that I read all the books I was like I know all the stuff but actually the babies don't know all the stuff you don't know how your bodies are going to work together like I didn't know that milk comes out of multiple holes no you know it's all the stuff sometimes when it goes slightly wrong and it's all in their face no I'm sorry so you can kind of go well I'll just know more yeah but actually it's in the practice with that baby that you get there and you don't know how they're gonna latch do you yeah sometimes it just simply doesn't work no no yeah how has it felt going back to work each time i love working and i love what i do and i'm very lucky because i can choose what i do and it's really relaxed and i do it from home so i would never complain about that and i have enjoyed going back to work each time but like i say with my third i would probably like to be in a position where I've kind of parked the projects because I'm so lucky to have these opportunities and obviously I want to create that life for my kids and I've built up a lifestyle from what I've done and I want to continue that.

55:07So it is a juggle but it's manageable and I think the only thing I feel guilty sometimes about is lucky with going to nursery because where he does enjoy it when he's there, the drop off is you want to be with us and it makes me so sad but with him being a toddler now you cannot get anything done with flossy i'm managing because she's yet she has good naps and stuff but with lucky if he's home all day he needs my attention you know i can't pop off and film a video or take a call or do a zoom is nursery a new thing for him or has he been going for a while he's been going but we've been building it up so he's he started with one day yeah and then two and then when we had Flossie we increased him to three and yeah he does love it and he's come on loads since going but he'll he'll say in the morning can I say with mummy and daddy and I'm like my heart just melts but it's really hard as well when you've had a traumatic drop off yeah so then go about your day yeah doesn't it yeah and like but he does he does love it but it's just yeah you do get that guilt but we make sure to like fill our weekends with like loads of fun so that he knows that he's and he started to now learn about weekends because you don't think about this do you like when they're younger like he's now learning like weekends and what weekdays are and you know we're having it at the minute where when we put him to bed it's because it's going dark so in the winter like it's dark now it's bedtime and he's really like learned that and now when we're trying to put his bed he's like no mommy it's not dark outside and I'm like right so in the summer it doesn't get dark till later but it still means it's bedtime he's like yeah but it's it's night it's not nighttime and I'm like god that's uh that's something that's shocked me I didn't think about that either it's that thing is very clever yeah please can we just well done but no it's not gonna work you're not staying up has motherhood and having having your own family felt like how you thought it would yeah it's been it's exceeded my expectations like It's changed my life in the best way.

57:09I feel like I was kind of just lost before and trying to figure stuff out and now I feel like that's exactly what I was meant to be doing, being a mum, and I just love it so much. Do you think your maternal role with your other siblings has sort of set you up for this new life? Yeah, I think it has, definitely. I mean, when mum had the little twins, I was only 16, and I remember seeing all their milestones and seeing what she did, and I've taken so much of that into, you know, being a mum myself. Yeah. You've said that the hardest part of motherhood has been not having your own mum with you. Yeah.

57:50I mean, are there moments that just happen that you're just like... Do you know what? It's the fact that she's never going to meet my children. that is literally the hardest thing to come to terms with because she would love them so much and like yeah it's hard because it creeps in all the time I'm watching Lucky I'm watching Flossie and I just imagine a world where she was here and it would just be it would just be so amazing and yeah it is such a sad thing that she's not but like I always say I find the positives and everything she taught me that's why I am the mum I am to my kids now and and I feel like she is with us you know just because she's not physically absolutely and have you found ways with Lucky and Flossie or Lucky Flossie's only a little bother yeah um to to talk about your mum yeah so I feel like I'm trying to now start introducing the idea of it because there's obviously pictures out and I'll say that's your nanny but she's in heaven she's not with us and I'll say that's my mummy because obviously he understands that I'm his mummy.

58:54So I'm trying to explain to him that, you know, I've got a mummy as well. And yeah, but I mean, he's still two. So, you know, it's hard to, he doesn't really grasp it yet. But just introducing the idea is nice. And it makes me feel nice that I know she would want to be a part of their lives, even though she's not here. So even the thought of her watching me talk about her to them, I think she'd love that. Yeah. And with your siblings as well, it's that thing of, not only have you got your own family now, but seeing that family growing and expanding. It's crazy. Like, Louis's got a little boy, I've got Lucky and Plossie, and Pheebs has got Olive, and it's just the best.

59:32It's like we're recreating, you know, what we grew up with, with all the kids, and it's so nice to be able to do it together. Obviously, you're living down south now. Yeah. But is there a feeling of wanting to get the kids up there as much as possible so they experience what you experience as a kid? Yeah, all the time. and my sister Daisy, she actually lived in London for quite a while and it was so nice to have her, but her boyfriend's a footballer so he moved teams and they've ended up being back up north, which is a shame, but I do go up there quite a lot and it's so nice. I went up there last weekend actually and just all the kids together and it'll just keep getting better and better as they get older.

1:00:08The chaos. The chaos that you thought existed for seven of you is now just going to grow and grow. And it will continue because then our kids will have kids. Yeah. Yeah, that's the best though, isn't it? It absolutely is. We were saying, we don't know who's going to be next. We were like, right, who is going to be next on the baby? Me, Phoebs or Daisy. And we were like, right, wonder. I think Phoebe will probably have another one at some point, probably before I have a third. Really? Yeah. I'd like to wait three years now, hopefully. Who knows? Yeah, you don't know. Next year, twins. It'd be nice to give them that time.

1:00:45because two's full on, especially if you want to still work, so I want to give them that time and then hopefully have another. If you could write a letter on motherhood, who would it be to and what would you say? I think I would write a letter on motherhood to my kids and just tell them that being their mum's the best thing that ever happened to me and it'll always be the most important thing to me. Yeah. Yeah. It does feel like it's settled you and given you, you even said about your body and everything, and how it's changed in terms of how you feel about it. Yeah. It does feel like it's given you this grounding and acceptance.

1:01:22Yeah, it has. And I just feel the most at ease that I've ever felt. And, you know, when you just feel like you're where you're meant to be. Yeah. And it's a nice feeling because when you've gone through a lot of loss and you've been through a lot of, you know, struggles, you just want that calmness, don't you? Absolutely. And I feel like I've found the joy in just simple things now, which is such a nice feeling you know searching for this happiness in these big things but that's not where it was and just now having the happiness in the small little moments is the best absolutely I think Instagram and things like that also pay have a massive part of that you know that thing we always feel like we have to be chasing yeah because people show the highlights don't they and yeah I agree with that it's like oh they're doing this big trip and they're doing this big thing and I need to be doing that and yeah you've got to try and like ground yourself and realise that.

1:02:17But there are joys that already exist in your life that you don't have to look at other people and go I need that. You've just got to focus on your own little bubble and circle and that's the most important thing. Lottie I'm going to get you growing vegetables and having chickens very nicely I actually would love that. I'll need a bigger house and a bigger garden. We end the podcast with you completing three sentences. The first one is being a mum means? Being a mum means that I am my children's everything which is the best feeling and being able to teach them everything you know witness all their firsts see the world through their eyes it's just it's just magical and yeah that's my favourite thing about being a mum.

1:02:59Since having children I? Since having children I feel like I've got so much more purpose in my life and I feel like I'm where I'm meant to be and it's the best chaos. And I'm happy when? I'm happiest when I'm with my babies and my family. Amazing. I mean, having listened to the book, I have been so excited about chatting to you. Oh, thank you. The book is called Lucky Girl for Anyone That Forgot from the Top and it's just a beautiful story of a brilliant family that encapsulates grief and all the things that come with that and it is full of hope and love. and I could feel listening to you doing the audiobook that that love has completely come from your mum.

1:03:46Yeah. And everything that you are channeling into your kids. Yeah. You know, it's a beautiful thing. Thank you. So good luck with everything. Thank you so much. Thank you.