“Don’t talk to yourself like that!” Teddy Swims on learning self-compassion

0:00Hello, I'm Fern Cotton and this is Happy Place, the show that helps you process the rough old things you're going through. Today, I'm chatting to Teddy Swims. If you're in this place and you write a song about it, you release that feeling. But when you start writing it in a thousand different ways, actually the tiny problem that you might have wrote a song about, now I've like festered and wrote albums on albums about this one tiny thing that now is probably the biggest thing in my life because I've just put so much effort and energy and trying to formulate the right ways to say it. And I've now given this problem of mine way more power than they should have had.

0:33And I was making these small problems into giant problems by just like trying to put them in the perfect way and overdoing it and not just like using it as a tool to release this feeling, you know? Right. Today, Teddy. Oh, my God. We're going to have a lot of fun together with this chat. So basically, I went to Wembley Arena where Teddy had two sold out shows. Absolutely amazing. And it was just the most fun afternoon. Well, it was like an early evening recording. Went to Wembley with the team. We went in the backstage entrance, which was so exciting. people milling about. We walked around the empty arena first, which felt utterly thrilling.

1:10Then we were whisked backstage. His team was so nice. Sometimes I've been backstage at a lot of gigs. Sometimes those teams can be a little bit standoffish, a bit cliquey, a bit cool. His team were, I mean, a sign of things to come. Just lovely. We hung out in one of the offices backstage, chatting and drinking tea and having a good catch up. And then we were whisked into Teddy's dressing room. He was fresh from the gym and we got stuck into a chat. But, but, and it's a big juicy but, just before we got to the chat itself, I noticed laid out on the coffee table a bunch of ink and a tattoo gun, which obviously got my weird little mind whirring.

1:51I'm not shy of a tattoo. I've been having them since I was probably 17 illegally. Let's just call it 18. and I've got some absolute shockers and then I've got some that I like a lot but I can't resist getting a tattoo especially a spontaneous one that I've not given too much thought to which might mean I've got more regrettable ones to come but anyway so whilst we were doing the chat I asked Teddy if he would give me a tattoo and you will hear all of this in this very chat lovely Basil who was my producer for that day because Anushka was away um was so nervous about this He kept saying to me, well, first of all, Teddy Swims kept going, I'm not very good at this.

2:31And I was like, it's fine. It's going to be fine. And Basil was going, are you sure you want to do this? Are you, Fern, this is a very visible spot. It's on your wrist. Are you sure? He was panicking. He turned into my mum for the day. Basil learned very quickly that I love a bit of wild spontaneity. So do stick to the very end of this episode because you're going to hear me getting tattooed live by Teddy Swims. And I wonder if you can guess what I got him to tattoo on me. So anyway, I'm sure you know exactly who Teddy is. He's been doing all the big performances recently at the Brits. He was phenomenal.

3:00Such a good one. His new album is called I've Tried Everything But Therapy Part Two, which clearly piqued my interest. And since releasing part one a few years ago, he has actually been to therapy, which we talk about a lot in this chat, as well as talking about how he's learned to like himself and the beautiful impact of having an emotionally articulate dad. That bit's beautiful. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead.

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5:31Right, let's go to Wembley Arena. Here's the show.

5:56Hey Teddy Swims. Hey bud. How are you? I'm really good. I'm Fern. It's really nice to meet you. You too. Thank you for welcoming us into your amazing colourful dressing room with all of your outfits behind. Yeah. Which are for tonight's show at Wembley. Yeah, how cool, man. How cool. Second one. Yes, it's an honour. Did you, when you went out last night, did you say the famous, iconic, Hello Wembley? Yeah, absolutely. You got to. You have to. Well, I think I said, Wembley, what's up? Yes. I think I totally blew it. I messed it up. No, Wembley, what's up is absolutely fine. Yeah, that's cool. But the amount of legends you'll see when you're walking the corridors who have played here.

6:29It's so cool. You know, two sold out shows here. I feel like a, you know, I mean, it's cool. It's ace. I mean, it's just an honor. You're having such a great, I mean, the year is young, but you're having such a good 2025 already. We saw you at the Brits last week in your incredible teddy bear coat, which we loved. And then your, are we calling it a bed costume on stage? Yeah, it's like a duvet situation, you know. And they made it all out of my tattoos and stuff. Like everything, even our stage here on the tour is like made of every, my little tattoos are all over it. It's kind of cute. It's been a little theme they're doing.

7:01I love it. And you like singing at the Brits. It was a good atmosphere. Oh, it was so cool, man. It was so cool. And getting to hang out. I think, you know, what they said, it was like, it's kind of like the Grammys, but like just, I guess like less posh and a lot more drinking. You know what I mean? Which is, I loved about it. A bit looser. I think everybody, I think it's just, I think overall the culture of it is just, everybody's like happy for each other. And I think there's always some stuff with the Grammys where people are just like, he should have won that, she should have won that. Take it too seriously.

7:30Yeah, there's always like a little bit of that going on. And I'm just like, dude, there's room for everybody. Just be happy for them, dude. Well, the Brits welcome you here. Like we're not taking any of it seriously. We just want to have a nice time. Yeah, that's all I'm here to do. That's what it should be like, really. Hell yeah. I mean, you are having the maddest time. You're obviously touring all about the place. You're playing these huge shows like the Grammys, like the Brits, playing Wembley, traveling the world. You've got a baby on the way. How are you processing all of this? Can you sleep at night?

7:57It feels like it's a lot going on for you. It is. It's a lot. And then there's always so many things that are happening. There's not enough time in a day, for sure. But I'm doing well with it. You know, I just, there's times I get a little guilty and I feel like, you know, my poor girl is just kind of pregnant as hell right now. And, you know, I'm not there for her. And I know she's kind of struggling, but she's such a trooper. And she's getting up and going Pilates every day and still recording songs and videos. And she's just absolutely kicking ass six months pregnant. So I just, what an awesome girl, man.

8:29She's going to crush it. And I can't wait to, we have next month to be together. And she'll be joining me in Dublin for about a week here in a couple days. Oh, then you get to be a dad and have your little baby time. It's going to be amazing. How are you feeling about that next chapter? I'm so excited. It's like a never-ending chapter, though, that one is. I'm excited, nervous, but I don't have any fear of it. I think I'm going to crush it. Yeah, you're going to crush it. It's going to be a beautiful experience. And I think it, well, I mean, my own personal experience of being a parent, it makes you think about everything in a different light i think you also get to know yourself a lot better because you're confronted with the good parts of yourself the parts like the strength that you have the resilience but also you're confronted with the bits you really don't like about yourself you've got to look at that every day because your patience is tested your sleep deprivation it's it's quite an amazing experience to go through in terms of that level of self reflection yeah my engineer Tim Tor was talking about his kids are you know getting up there I think when I was 16 or something he's seen him do something not the other day like just kind of throwing his shirt on the floor and he's like man why do they keep doing this and he's like he's called himself and was like oh because I do this shit they got this from me you know I can't even be mad because I fucking do this we've taught them everything yeah exactly we've taught them the bad habits and so you can't be that that's that's one thing I'm like I guess I'll be have to be really uh mindful of my bad habits that i don't sometimes know because i've just been you know kicking my shoes off right there like right fucking there you know what i mean so i'm gonna have to figure out how to stop doing that before that happens and they're just scattered everywhere it's gonna happen yeah back in your face reflected like a mirror i need to be training and training right now um let's talk about your part two album as well which is so beautiful and obviously being massively celebrated.

10:25Everyone's loving it and hearing all these different beautiful lyrics that are so heartfelt and meaningful and hearing you belt them out live as well. I've heard you talk in previous interviews about where you were at before writing this album. Part one, there was a lot of heartache or you were maybe like left in a bit of a pool of heartache at the end of it. Going into that writing process for this album, where were you at? Had you started feeling better? Were you healing? Yeah, you know, I was, you know, I was with this wonderful woman back in love and, you know, like just in a better place.

11:01I tried therapy. You know, that was a big one. And shout out to her because she kind of like finessed me into therapy weirdly like a good woman should. Yeah. You know, she was like, she just kind of was like, I think we should go to couples therapy as we're having a baby. I want to make sure our communication is great. We're healed. And the next thing you know, we're in therapy. And I'm like, I kind of want to do like next thing. I'm talking to therapists on the side and I find myself in solo sessions and I'm like that bitch is so she got me. She tricked you into it. I mean, prior to that, were you, were you against therapy?

11:32I was, I was, I was the whole thing of the first one was like, I was, I wanted to kind of start having that conversation. And I promised myself after the first part came out that I was going to go into it. And there was just still always, I mean, if you, if you want to do something, you're going to make time for it. But I was always, there was still some, I guess I was kind of making excuses at the time. Oh, this is this going on today. Or I just, I don't know. I haven't found a person or blah, blah, blah. You know, and I was kind of just making a bunch of excuses. And I'm glad I finally did it.

11:58And I find it so funny, too, because, you know, I talk about this same thing on the stage every night, too. I'll say, you know, coming in the second album and, you know, talking about having a love and back in love. And I was like, I've gone to therapy. I've tried therapy with everyone. And you hear like a couple of people like, ooh, you know, such a quiet clap. And I say, I'm having a child. And everybody screams. And I'm like, well, it seems like you guys are just absolutely unregulated yourselves. All of you, like a whole lot of you. There's like a hundred people in a 15 ,000 cat room that might scream for you going to therapy.

12:26Nobody else. I'll be whooping. I don't need that. Therapy is the best. It is. It's changed my life. I mean, were you scared going into it thinking, what am I going to uncover? What am I going to have to look at? No, I don't think so. I think there's like, I don't know. I don't know what I was, I don't know what I was scared of. I guess maybe there was a piece of that. I don't know. I never really thought about it that way. It was just, I don't know why it was so, I guess, I guess, I think there's just like some sort of like, there's some sort of like generational ideal on that that's painted, you know, that you just feel like you don't need it.

13:00Or like, you're like, or I know what's wrong with me. I don't need nobody to tell me what's wrong with me. That kind of thing. Maybe, you know, maybe that was what it is. And as much as I'd like to say, I was like, oh, I'm so open to it. For some reason, it took me so long to get there. And so I don't know what I was really blocking me, but I was saying I was so absolutely ready to do it, but not doing it. But it's so normal to feel like that. I think most of us go into it thinking, oh, there's so many other things I'd rather be doing than sitting talking about the past or the things that I know are haunting me still.

13:29And it's, I mean, it's a strange process. I've been going on off for years and years and years, but I found a therapist that I've really clicked within the last year. but even so and even though I've been going on off for a long time I know that I walk in there with this sort of suit of armor on like you're not going to get through to me today and I'm not even doing it consciously but I'm kind of all yeah hi I'm fine I've had a great week how are you and doing all the bullshit patter and and this therapist can sort of get through that hard exterior to kind of talk to the real me but I still find it so hard to I guess be vulnerable or to just completely relax into I'm going to talk about exactly what I'm scared of exactly what I'm feeling about have you experienced that like what was your first initiation into it?

14:17I mean I'd you know me and my girl were I guess you know kind of we're starting to see as as the pregnancy happened and it was nothing too serious but just little problems that were coming up you And of course, they ended up being a bigger and bigger problem. And it was like, so that was a great way of coming into it because I felt like, I don't know, I felt like it was great to have her there and us discuss our things. And I guess it kind of like softened the blow of maybe me having to just jump headfirst with somebody I didn't know for the first time over Zoom. So that was great to have like, I guess as a couples therapy to have somebody I was comfortable with and also comfortable sharing feelings with.

14:56and whether it's with for them or against them or whatever the problem may have been, you know. And so I think that was, I think I had a very easy time jumping straight in because, you know, I needed to, I wanted, we needed our communication to be great. And so I think that was, it was, it was much, I guess, a safer environment having, you know, somebody that I am intimate with already. Completely, completely. Because it is such an alien concept. You're talking to someone you've never met about things that you might not, you know, some stuff I've never said that out to anyone. I've not even actually admitted some of the stuff to myself and then you're telling someone else and it's so jarring to have those words leave your mouth but freeing, it's liberating oh yeah, sometimes you're like well I guess I could be doing this because of this reason and you're like, sometimes you catch yourself stumbling on yeah, like, oh, maybe you're self-diagnosing you know, in the best way sometimes you're like, oh shit, yeah, mommy issues yeah, this is it I think that's a good therapist, isn't it?

15:53when they're not saying, you should do this they're bringing you to the conclusion and then you're like oh shit I know the answer I knew it all along but I just I couldn't find it in the absolute yeah thunderstorm of shit in my head um it's the most amazing process and obviously so different for everyone do you feel like you've had big breakthroughs things that have been quite game-changing yeah absolutely and I think I think there's so much of it too that I was I was like there's there's so many things that I've learned about i guess the love that i was accepting and and oh i guess searching for these patterns that i was going for in my life was just there was like love doesn't have to be this like big big ups and downs and like i would love you and i want to like rip my heart out for you and i want to like die you know like it's like it's not like it's just like i'm not gonna die over it you know what i mean it's not love is not it's like so not okay you know to be like every emotion needs to eat me alive you know and i thought i thought that was just like what i don't know i felt like i felt things so and i do feel things so deeply but it doesn't have to define me you know and i just would let like every tiny little emotion in my heart which thank god you know it i mean it paid the bills like so it's paying the bills these songs you're writing that is you ripping your heart out but it's i can also take that put that into that leave it there you know and let it go and and use that as a as a as a tool to get that stuff out rather than letting it just fester inside of me.

17:17You know, I found, I found that there was a time where I was like writing songs that, you know, if you're, if you're in this place and you write a song about it, you, you release it, you write it down, you release that feeling. But when you start writing it in a thousand different ways, actually the tiny problem that you might've wrote a song about, if I wrote it in like a thousand different ways, now I've like festered and wrote albums on albums about this one tiny thing that now is probably the biggest thing in my life because I've just put so much effort and energy and and trying to formulate the right ways to say it and the right melodies to use and then i've now given this problem of mine or this person of mine way more power than they should have had to begin with you know and and i was making these small problems into giant problems by just like trying to put them in the perfect way and overthinking it and overriding it and overdoing it and not just like using it as a tool to release this feeling you know i think we all do that even you know obviously you're a songwriter but i think many of us we end up telling the same story to our friends or whoever going oh this happened and then they did this and then all of a sudden you are reconfirming that narrative again and again like you say it's just this one thing becomes it can take over your whole life it sort of becomes soul consuming yeah you're speaking that all into your soul and into existence every time you're saying yeah you know and it's it's it's uh yeah it can be a very very terrible pattern that i have trying to still always unlearn you know it's a lot of unlearning that is going into this yeah a lot of unlearning it's all that that's what it is and it's all the unlearning yeah one thing I've heard you talk about in the context of therapy is looking at your own self-compassion your own self-love which I think is probably collectively as humans one of our biggest issues is that we don't even like ourselves we can't even accept ourselves and actually when you can start to feel around the edges of that everything does become so much easier I'm definitely not 100 % there but I am I'm on the road and it's a very curious path that I feel I'm, I'm on to liking myself and working out who I really am.

19:16Hell yeah, dude. Who the fuck am I? Where are you with that? Well, you know, I think the older I seem to get, the further I get from who I thought I was, you know, in a way, like I, I feel like I just like my values and everything changes all the time. You know what? The things that are important to me are not the things that were important to me before. And, and I, I'm, I, I almost got to learn to love this different, just like the person you're with. If you marry somebody for 20 years, you got to learn to love every version of that person. They're never going to be the same the next day and the next day and the next day.

19:50And so I try to decide to just keep myself vulnerable and open and honest at all points of where I am, whether it's on stage or in public or anything. I feel like I'm very lucky to have a safe place in my life that emotionally I'm able to be safe. And so many people have given me a safe place to tell my feelings and have these kind of conversations. So I'm always able to have this place of just knowing and trying to, I guess, figure out where I am right now and trying to love that person or trying to love the best thing about it. So most days, I absolutely love me. You know, I'm really grateful to love me most days.

20:31But some days, like this morning, after I got fucking shitty last night, you know, it was a little harder to love me this morning. I was like, you fucking idiot, you know. But then you got to tell yourself, don't do it. Why are you talking to yourself like that? Don't talk to yourself like that. Look at yourself in the eyes and say, I love you. But it's not always easy to do that. The bad self-talk is so horrible. It's so terrible for you. Stormy, what are you doing? And we don't talk to other people like that. We talk to ourselves in the most mean way. It's the pits. And I catch myself doing it all the time.

20:58Why am I doing this? I know. Just bullying myself. Bullying yourself. And that, I think, leads to, you know, in its extreme, depression, anxiety. Oh, yeah. It takes you down that path. It's horrible. Yeah, I try to make sure that I, like, look at myself and even if it's – I know it may sound the silliest thing, but look at myself and say, I love you. You're beautiful, dude. You're crushing it. You know, and I try to do that, just look myself in the eyes and say that. Because I found so many times in my life I was – you walk by a mirror, you know, and when you're walking by a mirror i find that even before you get to the mirror you might like suck in a bit you might go ahead and put yourself so that way when you get in the mirror you know like this is what you look like fix yourself up as soon as you turn from that mirror yeah put that gun right back out so i don't know why i'd like lie to myself when i go over there you know what i mean yeah and instead i said i look at my outfit i look at everything but i don't look at myself in the eyeballs you know and it was like weird to finally like break that barrier of making eye contact with myself and like dude yeah i see you awkward at first i see you yeah it's so awkward like looking at yourself and talking to yourself in the mirror it's so confronting and bizarre and to say i remember talking to a friend about this she when she was in recovery would have to look at herself in the mirror and say first of all i like you which then progressed to i love you and she couldn't even say it the first month couldn't even look at you know and i went home and obviously tried it and was like cringing like i like you and it's so awkward and fucking weird and but the more you practice it and you then you start to believe it and you can actually start to like yourself it's it's amazing it's changed my life doing that and yeah it's a very awkward thing to do and it's and it's definitely not something like if you want somebody to walk in on you do it you know that's like that'd be the worst feeling in the world you know just just be telling myself i love myself i should be i should be proud of it but instead i'd feel so embarrassed you know so embarrassed and do you find the more that you like yourself the less you're seeking validation in an exterior fashion yeah i think so but i think you know i think i think for so long in my life i was i was this is this was the thing about originally becoming and getting to this point you know or like i i thought forever that when i when when enough people said i was good at this or that i was you know all these things that i was looking for that like all my problems were going to vanish you know like i thought that i would have success financially and and all these people adoring me and loving me and telling me I'm great and beautiful.

23:18And I thought I would feel that way. And that was like the most loneliest feeling I had when I first started, I guess, on this trajectory of this amount of success or I guess validation in a way. And I just was so, so depressed. I felt like everyone was lying to me or I was lying to everybody, you know, and it was like the same way of going to look in the mirror and getting myself all prepped up. And like, I felt like I was just like, I guess not being fully transparent, you know, I think I think being that way has freed me from that, you know, that that that feeling of I thought they were all this, all these people in this building tonight were going to free me and make me like myself.

23:56And I just didn't believe any of them. Isn't it mad? I mean, we all, to an extent, believe in the notion of fame, that the more popular you are, that somehow that is going to support your self-worth and make you feel so far from the truth. And like you're saying, it's the opposite. But it's so interesting you saying you actually started to get paranoid that people are lying to you. I mean, that's how extreme and I'm imagining uncomfortable that is because you're like, wait a minute, I was promised some sort of freedom and liberation here. And now I feel the direct opposite. it's mad yeah now like where i was struggling to keep my lights and water on this is the hardest my life has ever been you know what i mean it's it's such a crazy thing it's like this is so difficult all the time you know and it's it's it's so giving so much of yourself too and trying to make sure you find that time and place for yourself and and and not be seeking for the validation of course i'm like i'm an attention whore you know what i mean i love it i'm a slut for it you know i love attention i'm like don't let me tell you i don't you know what i mean obviously like i love being like you're wearing a leopard it's me yeah it's like yeah i'm different like of course like we all i guess at some degree we all have me more than others i guess but we all have this like i guess this this need for mom look at me dad look at me yeah you know i think that's just we've all got it reigned in us you know of course but i guess it's how much you take that seriously and take it home without looking at it and going i think if if you know and we've probably We all seen it happen, play out in the public eye.

25:27Or we know people that have really imbibed every bit of gratification and probably negative feedback as well. And it wrecks you because you're constantly seeking it and need bolstering. But also when you are then told you haven't done something right or people give you shit, you don't know how to cope with it. You can't handle it. Yeah, I find it's like, you know, I sometimes wonder, like, what am I doing this for? Or is it to be something like I want to make a difference on this earth and not be forgotten? Because I think ultimately oblivion is inevitable. The Beatles will be forgotten. You know what I mean?

26:01And if I was doing this to be the best ever or to be remembered, surely I'm in the wrong business. I don't think I'm doing it for that reason. You know what I mean? So what am I doing this for? Sometimes I ask, what the fuck do I want to be remembered forever? Or do I really love this? do I just really love this what I'm doing do I really just want to like do I want to make a difference or do I actually love what I'm doing you know and I think I think that's for me is it's like I love this craft and I love this this art and I love this self-expression and I I of course I want to be the best you know but I don't think I'm doing it to be remembered by any means you know it's like how good to have that conclusion now I think that's so interesting to actually have the clarity to go I just want to be on that stage singing a song and get making people feel good like that is that's enough of a reason just now that's fine yeah that's enough of a reason to do it I think when we get so fixated on this end result of I must be the best or remembered in anything it doesn't have to be you know just in the public eye I'm talking about anything that we do in our private lives or in our working life if that's the goal we're always going to be disappointed yeah what am I feeling like am I feeling good in it and I mean obviously you're on this great trajectory as we've talked about but have you had moments where you thought actually i'm not enjoying this i don't like this and felt a bit lost in it yes sure i mean there's there's times where this can you know sometimes feel like a job and you know me and my boys will always say like you know we're trying to reprioritize gratefulness you know it's just like you know i i try to get up and and some days like you know today i was just telling him we're about to get an interview and i was like god damn what are we doing this you know i feel like shit you know and it started felt like a but as soon as i got in there and like you know i i loved it i had a blast having a conversation but you know there's there's times where it feels like a job and you got to reprioritize your gratefulness sometimes and say like what are you bitching about man you have a beautiful life you're doing your best i mean you got the best career with your best friends and the best woman and the best kid on the way and you know you're gonna like everything's going so well what do you have to bitch about well there's some days you know you just need to bitch and that's okay too and i'm trying to learn the balance of just like i want to be upset and around, I'm going to fucking do it.

28:09You know what I mean? Some days I'm just like, hmm, I'm upset and that's okay. It's all right to mope. You know, give yourself time to be a little baby. Fuck it. Yeah, too right. You need a tantrum day. Yeah. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead, no rigid long-term contracts, just the right expert, right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com.

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30:30and then what about the writing bit because you know one of the reasons that you can fill Wembley Arena two nights in a row is because you're writing these lyrics that people are connecting with yes they want to hear you sing because you've got this raw talent and it's an amazing thing to watch live but people are and I'm sure you feel this they're connecting with what you're saying they're songs that people are going to play when they're heartbroken they're songs people are going to play when they're getting married they're songs people are going to play at the birth of their kids you know they're they're big emotional songs where are those lyrics coming from do you feel like you've always had the ability to access that part of you that can really clearly express big big feelings it's hard to do that yeah I feel like I feel like I've just always been in that way where I and I mean I was I was overly sensitive and emotional as a kid but my dad was always there to be like so available emotionally and and and i guess like intelligent emotionally and like was able to just like you know would talk to me about things you know and like let me talk about my feelings and ask why not like a because i told you so or because i said so he always just he always let me do that and like have my big feelings and have my emotions and you know why is this affecting you this way why do you feel this way you know and that i think that set me up for for a lot of I guess knowing why I feel this way versus I just feel this way and I think I think um I think the biggest thing when it comes to writing songs is that I'm the ability to access those emotions and put them in the words I have so many good people that help me you know put those feelings into words and and help I mean it's the best people in the world you know that help me do that and I'm I'm forever grateful to be able to do that you know on this scale and I think I think just having that space is is saved my life in so many ways yeah I mean just putting pen to paper like writing a diary writing a journal like if it's not even songs just writing stuff down is so oh yeah I think I think every day I write I think I would say that to anybody there's write something every day whether it's yeah a journal whether it's like stream of consciousness whether it's a diary or whether it's a song or poem just writing writing writing writing it's always been my best friend it's the only thing that's always been there for me.

32:40Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And you've got control over it. You can do it whenever you want, however you want for as long as you want. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. I think it, I think it's also too, you find it like, uh, I heard, I heard this, uh, I heard somebody say this. It's like, um, you know, you find that when you're going through an issue that like, it's, it's so hard for you to know what to do about it. But when somebody else is going through that same issue, it's like, you can give them the perfect advice and know exactly what to do. And they say so much as like a apple tree is like, you know, the fruit on the tree is not for the tree you know that it's for the people walking by you know and that so the the fruit that's like the wisdom you get from the things you're going through that you might not know what to do and so i thought i thought it was such a beautiful thought to say that like that the apples are not for the tree itself the apples are for the people walking by that's just that's why don't we trust ourselves to give ourselves the advice that's the weird bit for me because i will happily dispense advice to anyone that wants to hear like oh babe you need to do this i know exactly what you're going through and then when it's me i'm like i don't know what to do i'm fucked i don't know how to cope with this we don't trust ourselves it's so strange i think the best thing about writing with that when it's when it comes to writing i find that it's it's almost like you can see it on paper in front of you and you can read it back to yourself like you're being told that and i find that i'm way better at thinking out and giving myself advice when i'm writing it down because then it's like somebody else is saying and if i'm reading it yeah like it's being told to me rather than me saying it you know yeah and just internalizing it ruminating upon everything having it i mean i'm as you said i've got my nerdy notepad which carry everywhere which is just full of stuff and it's the pen on paper is just it's magic it just does something it's so brilliant going back to your dad he must have like that's he's a forward-thinking man because we're talking here what late 90s early noughties where he's guiding you as a parent and telling you to you know feel your feel your feelings that's rare you know also like i have i I have two little brothers and their mom is, you know, schizophrenic and bipolar and been in and out of their life and, you know, just prison and stuff.

34:36And so I think like he really was he really was just like had to be mom and dad, you know what I mean? So he has like this everything that you need to do to become both. You know, he's just always been gentle and soft and hugging and kissing and loving and, you know, just feel those feelings, baby. I love you. I love you. I love you. And I think that's, I'm so lost in like, in men, I think too. It's such a, I think there's so many toughness about like dudes that I just, I didn't have that experience and I always feel so bad. It took, you know, sometimes it takes so long for like a couple of my buddies here even to be like, tell you they love you back, you know, they're getting to like, you got to break them down into that or tell them, hey, you're so beautiful, man.

35:19You look great today. Yeah. Damn boy, you look sexy, dog. Yes. Without being like, whoa, dude. You know, and it's like now, now it's like, dude, it's the, I can call my buddy hot, dude. It's okay. It's not coming for you. I don't want you. You need to kickstart this revolution. We need this. We need this. Women are like that. You know, women tell each other how beautiful. Oh, we're constantly going, you look absolutely stunning. Oh my God. I want to snog your face off. Like, I'm telling my friends this all day. You lot need to, well, you're doing it, but we need to spread this. That's what I'm saying.

35:45Dude's got to normalize, like, hugging and kissing on each other. You know what I mean? It doesn't have to be all like, whoa, dude, are you trying to bone me? are you gay bro like it's no it's crazy it's great but i love that your dad's done that is he still someone that you'd call now tell me what to do everything everything good or bad in my life he's the first call i'm like dad what what the fuck was going on or hey dad this amazing thing happened you know just anything he's my first guy so brilliant and also it just stands you in the best stead when you're parenting to fall back on everything that he's done right that you can go oh my god absolutely my kids having a tantrum and freaking out it's okay like the world's not going to end I can let them do this rather than I think a lot of the time especially when they're little you think I've got to stop them being upset I must do something to to just halt this huge emotion but actually your dad's already taught you and I'm learning this for the first time you know as a parent now it's all right just to let them feel how they're feeling and then I've got to teach I've got parent myself and teach myself as well that I'm allowed to feel big feelings yeah that you know i have a tattoo of mr rogers here i don't know if you guys had mr rogers out here but he was he was the best man what was he was mr rogers he was on he was on a pbs or public broadcasting network or whatever and um it was like he was a puppet guy and um they did it they did a documentary on it and they did a movie about him that tom hanks played him and uh he's just the best man he uh he would always say songs like he was like really was first person that was like talking to children with these puppets and talking to children about death you know like a fish died and telling him about you know handling it first or saying there's one song he's saying it was uh you know what do you do with the mad that you feel just know that you can stop you know that you can stop and like he would just teach i don't know what i was always coming up my my grandparents were pentecostal pastors and so when we get off the bus at their house we weren't allowed to watch anything but like you know those kind of shows right we couldn't see any of the any of the other stuff so i just watched him all the time and he was just such a emotionally and he's my hero dude mr rogers i love that you've got a tattoo of him yeah he's the best so great best human being ever you should look into him and like some of the shows and he's that's what i want to raise my kid on it's like he's gonna watch mr rogers yes he's gonna be forced to yeah on youtube watch all the repeats i love it we have to talk about your tattoos i know it's basic and it's obvious but they're there and they're art and they are clearly such a huge part of how you also express yourself alongside songwriting does it feel like that does it feel like an essential need to to express yourself in that way yeah i also think i think like when i was a kid one of the things i wanted the most was like when people ask me what do you want to be when you're older i was like one of the biggest things for me was tattooed you know i like i loved it i loved i love rock stars and like guys that were tattooed they just look badass you know and i always wanted to be that i remember i remember my mom used to give us like ten dollars at the end of the week and uh for doing our chores all week and you know it would come to friday we give us 10 bucks and when it when it comes to church you have to give your tithe which is 10 % so I'd give a dollar reluctantly and my older brother would give$5 because he's a fucking overachiever fuck that guy right and so I was like dude you're making me look bad yeah I'm not doing that so take that Jesus but anyway I used to go I get all my money in the little quarters and stuff and we go to this Mexican restaurant all the time on Sundays after church and I'd just rack out on the 50 machines and just stick the little fake tattoos all over me flexing the mirror and stuff when I was a little kid.

39:11I just thought I was so fucking cool. And here I am being the exact guy I wanted to be. I had the exact epiphany when I watched, do you remember the band Crazy Town, the song Butterfly? That music video, he was heavily tattooed. And I watched that and went, that's what I'm doing. And that started off a whole love affair with tattoos and the art of tattoos. And I haven't quite stopped on that one. It's just the best. They're gorgeous. Yeah, my favorite thing in the world is like, we just recently, I mean, we just got a machine over there and I've been getting everybody in the crew to do some tattoos on me now, which has been cute.

39:47I mean, will you tattoo me? Yeah, sure. Yeah, like what are we going to do? I'm not great at it though. No, it doesn't have to be great, but we can just do a small something somewhere. Okay, cool. Maybe a wrist something or other. Cute, okay. Yeah, we'll do it. Yeah, okay. Okay, let's make it happen. We're going to do a tattoo, guys. This is the first Happy Place tattoo. We've never done this on a podcast. I've had some really bad spontaneous ones over the years Some are hidden Many are hidden Some bad ones So let's go the best you've got Is what I'm saying Okay The best you've got Sure Because I've got enough shit ones already So we'll go like high end Teddy Swims I'll try my best Okay good I don't know much about high end one I think My funny thing is I always get everybody to sign You know their tattoos too I think it's been like As I go and travel like people will hit me up and they're maybe coming to the show like hey can i come tattoo and so i just tell them design whatever they want and so great and sign it you got any room you got no room left surely yeah i got um i got a little room here and still on my sides and a lot of my back still undone and back of my thighs and i'm really getting close though i'm i'm getting there back is all i've got all my back it's so miserable i know it's so bad it's so bad there was one where i nearly bailed it was about five hours long and i was like i think i'm just gonna have to leave it half hours too much.

41:02That's what I've done on my bag and I haven't been back in like four years, you know, and that's it happens to, ah, feet suck. Feet is so bad. I wasn't that bad. This one wasn't that bad for me. Oh no, feet. This foot's done and it was horrendous. So bad. I did not like it. But then I also have given birth to children and that is worse. Yeah. So I shouldn't have said that for all the women listening. Maybe it won't be as bad as that. Maybe it will be quite peaceful and lovely. I will end on this note. Where is your happy place? um there on the stage i love that space it's the best i think it's like it i do the best job with my best friends i've known my whole life and we get to get up there and you know i guess like kick the shoes off and walk around you know and you just chat and live laugh cry just it's the freest place for me what joy it's been talking to you today i've loved it and i hope you have the best gig tonight it's gonna be magic you're gonna have the best best time let's do some tattooing okay to make it happen what are you doing just having a little bear here oh my god you know my little bear dude oh yeah cute cute yeah yeah i know i love it oh my god tattoo pals you want me to do it in the color i can do it in the color that's a guy what do we What do you think?

42:20Wait, what colour can we look? We've got loads. All the colours. It could be, because I've got green, it could be nice green. What do we think? Let's try green. Do you do green? Come in. I think green could be fun. Green could be fun. Let's do green. I always like... I got a green green and I got a deep green. I think deep green, yeah. I did not see this happening. I'm very happy. Basil, you just, you haven't got to know me properly. This is a very spontaneous act of lunacy. This is very much me. What have you done in no time? Oh my God. It's a tiny little thing though. Okay. I've got to be very in there.

42:56Are you feeling it? Yep. One ear in. Wills, why are you getting the giggles? I feel like I'm sitting in for a nushka. I feel like the bad baby sits here. How are you feeling, Teddy? Great, man. Don't distract him. Sorry. Let the artist work. I hope you love this. I do love it. You're doing it. It's great. This is like a memory for life. Okay, let's see if we got him in there. Let's get our little wipes going. Is that quick, guys? Done. Let's see. We'll see how well he's in there. I don't know if I've been down. I'm still learning. Yeah, he's there. That's so cute. You've done it so neat. Yeah.

43:33Oh, my God. You've done it so neat. I love it. Good. I got my tennis swim. It's so cute. Your lines are so good. They're so neat. Yeah, I'm getting better at it. Yeah. You're getting so good. I love it. That's amazing. Gary's really in there. Oh, my God. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm honored. That's fucking great. Oh, Teddy. Teddy, thanks for just being an absolute gem. Not only beautiful, gentle conversation, but also for tattooing me really neatly. If you want to go and see the tattoo, I put a picture on my Instagram feed a while back. It's got a cute little teddy bear that if you tip it upside down, could be a mystical symbol.

44:15Go and check it out. Teddy, we love you. Teddy's album I've tried everything but therapy part two is out now by the way if you're feeling a bit hesitant about therapy not tattoos that's you need to give that more thought than I did and you're a bit confused about whether it will be right for you like Teddy was we very recently put out an episode of loads of different happy place guests talking about their own experiences of it and some therapists in there too the link to that one is going to be in the show notes if you want to listen now while I've got you let me tell you about the book that we're going to be reading in the Happy Place Book Club in April.

44:49Oh, it's such a good one. It's called Bear and it's by Lorna Tucker. Oh, it's genuinely inspirational and I don't use that word lightly. It's a true story of Lorna's fight to survive living on the streets of London. She's had to lie and steal and strip and everything in between. It's confronting. It's incredible. It's beautifully written. It's a portrait of female homelessness and I'd love for you to come over to happy place book club on instagram so we can all read it and chat about it together okay for now a huge thank you again to teddy both for the chat and for the tat to the producers of this episode anushkate and basil oxtoby and to you go and make eye contact with your gorgeous self in the mirror and tell yourself you're bloody great

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