“I’m used to making mistakes!” Harriet Kemsley on how to stop worrying about being cringe

0:00Hello, a massive welcome to Happy Place with me, Fern Cotton. This is the show that banishes any sense of shame. Today, we're at the Happy Place Festival with Harriet Kemsley. In my life, like when I've had shame, if I can then make it into a joke, you have a power over it when you manage to make it funny. It's like almost like you've kind of, unless you're doing it from a place of pain, it sometimes can feel like you've got to the other side of it. And you can really tell if you've got to the other side of it because people laugh at the joke. And if they don't laugh, it's because they're worried about you.

0:30the more you share it it's like you give a little bit of shame to everybody else you share the embarrassment out and then it filters and you're not just alone feeling overwhelmed by it right this is the first of a bunch of chats that we had at the happy place festival in Gunnersbury that you're going to get to hear over the next few weeks now we were at Gunnersbury Park for the first time this year and it was just amazing I'm so grateful I'm still buzzing from the whole thing. It was just feel good vibes. All you lot that came were just so bloody lovely and the sun was shining. I mean, I don't want to say it, but if anything, it was too hot.

1:07But I'm not going to moan about that because I would rather it be blue skies and gorgeous sunshine than pissing with rain. So everyone was grinning from ear to ear. I hugged a lot of people. I heard a lot of people's stories. It was just it was magic. It was pure magic. I feel so unbelievably lucky. Honestly, I just bloody loved it. the tent that we did these podcasts in was hot and my thighs were just like I was like slipping off the chair it was ridiculous it was like doing a podcast in a sauna but we got through it and it was just amazing and I was so excited to have Harriet on the podcast because I was the hugest fan I'm the hugest fan of Last One Laughing which was an amazing tv show that was on Prime everyone kept telling me to watch it.

1:58And when that happens, normally I think, oh, bugger off. I don't want to watch something that everyone else is watching. It's annoying to hear about it. But I am so glad I did. I've never laughed so much in my life. At times I was sort of wheezing and had to press pause. It's so brilliant. And I didn't actually know too much about Harriet before seeing her on Last One Laughing, but she was just so brilliant on it. So obviously I had to fangirl over Harriet a bit, but we also got into loads of other stuff like co-parenting after divorce. She's very open about her divorce. The incredible power of having female mates to cheer Leigh-Jew.

2:33She's really good friends with Lou Saunders, who was also one last one laughing. He's a brilliant comedian. And how to get through that horrible cringe part where you're really bad at something that you've never done before, which I'm not sure many of us are particularly up for normally. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction.

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4:28For generations, this house has been home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games. Saints and sinners. Unexpected laughs and unspoken truths. Good times, hard times and of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue, a world premiere play only at Arena Stage. Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org.

4:58Now this episode with Harriet is obviously coming to you live from the Happy Place Festival in Gunnersbury Park. Do you want to join us at Tatton Park in just a few weeks' time? We're going to be there at the end of August with more live podcasts, just like this one, as well as so much goodness, like beautiful sound baths and arts and crafts and some live music. Both our Saturday and weekend ticket are now sold out, but there are limited tickets remaining for Sunday the 31st of August. So nab your tickets now at happyplacefestival.com and I cannot wait to see you there. Right, let's do it. Here's the show.

5:57hello hi how are you doing it's nice to see you i did a little loop back there It's a bit much, yeah. Our sweat has just met. Yeah. Yeah, I'm good, thank you. It's very nice to be here. Hello. It's so great to have you here. Thank you. I was talking to Josh Widdicombe about you yesterday. Oh, God. Do you know who he likened you to? I dread to think Mr Bean. Lana Del Rey. Yes. He said Harriet is very much like Lana. She's her own woman. That is not what he says in person. I will say that's really nice. It's a great compliment. Yeah, that is a great compliment. I'll take that. Ake it. Yeah. As I said, you're on my favourite show, Last One Laughing.

6:42I loved every minute of watching that. Was it a delight to film? It was so fun. I mean, it was kind of overwhelming at the beginning because it was like all my comedy heroes. And also, I don't know how to speak and not laugh. Like, it's just not a thing I've ever done before. And so I think the first hour is me just trying to run away from people. Like Richard Ayoide is literally like chasing me. And so it was a weird kind of adapting to try and do that because it was so fun. Had you met any of you? You're obviously friends with Lou, but had you met any of them before? Yeah, Lou's a really good friend of mine.

7:15And the others I'd kind of met, like I'd done Richard's show before, but he doesn't give much away. No. So you could have met Richard before, but you still don't really know what's happening. No. But yeah, I didn't know Bob Mortimer or anything. He's a legend. And how can you not laugh at Bob Mortimer? It's almost impossible. I know, it's like illegal. It's illegal. You went out in fine style singing Minnie Riperton. It was the best thing ever. It was so stressful because they started, Jimmy was like, you have to sing. And then it worked its way around. And I was having a mini panic attack because it's my worst nightmare is to sing on TV.

7:54yeah and I was like but this is this is what's happening and then I just lost my mind so good I love singing but I hate singing in front of people I can't think of anything worse so you just do it privately yeah really go for it in the car when I'm posturing around the kitchen like I'll belt out a tune but if there's people near me absolutely like if you told me to sing now there's absolutely no way see I when I was eight um I once sang in the in the car to the radio and I finished and my dad went well you know you're not going to be a singer and that stuck you know yeah so I think that's the first time I've sung yeah just a light bit of trauma for your childhood there the end of your pop career um it was so so brilliant I just loved it as you said Lou is a mate of yours she is incredible I've interviewed her once I just absolutely love her you just went to Glastonbury together we did yeah we went to Glastonbury it was we hired a camper van which we tried to get someone to lend us one and surprisingly no one would absolutely nobody we kept asking people and they were like no not for you too so we borrowed one from this man called Ian in Salisbury and I think when he turned up he was like oh no I'm not seeing that van again one of you was driving the van yeah Lou drive it yeah we're both bad drivers but Lou is just confident but she shouldn't be um well she did amazingly she did so well but it was like we had to learn like a GCSE and camper vans basically there's so much to learn like the prep was just insane like what did you learn from that process I just I learned um not to do it right that's what I learned yeah just don't do it just just is kind of just worth getting a tent I think no it was it was kind of lovely we had our own little beds and we really got into like van life yeah we were kind of imagining ourselves kind of Louise yeah traveling the globe in our van yeah I think if I think a val is better the problem for me with tents is the brightness in the morning yeah before in the morning you're awake this is the issue I went to Benny Kasim with a friend um years ago when we were like 21 and she's American so she's quite complainy um and uh we would every morning that we'd be woken up at like 5 a.m by the tent you just go and it was just the the air would have left the tent and then we'd have to leave and then there's just no air conditioning in Spain and she just couldn't understand it and so there was no shelter from the sun and so we'd just go and stand in the sea like I've just got this picture of her looking so sad in the sea and then we'd go and drink and the pattern would repeat yeah it's very much a cyclical scenario that isn't it but the but van life a-okay van life yeah me and Lou we're gonna hit the road no one wants that I do.

10:38I'm massively here for that. You have had quite the year this year. Would you say the most hectic yet? Definitely the most hectic yet. Yeah, it's all been a bit confusing. Like, I'm quite slow to, like, cotton on to things. So, yeah, it's all been a bit confusing, but very nice. Yeah. I mean, you've had, yeah, you've had, obviously, Last One Laughing. You've been touring, doing all of these big shows. Does it feel overwhelming at any point? Yeah, a little bit. I think I've been doing stand-up for such a long time now. that it's quite funny when people are like, oh, the new up-and-camera, and you're like, I've been doing this for 15 years.

11:12You know, I can't really get away with that anymore. But yeah, it's really lovely. I just feel very grateful, yeah. And you're a single mum. How are you juggling sort of kid life with late-night gigs and everything going on? It is, I would say, fucking chaos. Yeah. Yeah, it's complete chaos. I have a road tour of babysitters that are amazing, that some of them we've had like right from the start um but every night it's it's different and her dad is a a comic as well so we both often are out in the evenings um and so it's so even though um i mean i wouldn't necessarily recommend this but we have to see each other like multiple times a week um so we just have to park any um any personal um issues with each other um and then just like pass our pass it back and forth and it means we're very involved and we try and take it where we can and um but yeah the the juggle of it is um is insane because also being a stand-up you're working at night not and they don't have nursery at night no that's a shame it's a real shame someone's really um yeah i've really made a mistake there right but yeah my parents are really good and they take her like one um weekend a month and so she gets to go and um have fun with them and so they're really supportive and i've got some amazing friends who And my sister is great just stepping in last minute when I've inevitably made a mistake at some point.

12:35And are you good at winding down after a show? Because, again, you're on stage. You can feel quite buzzed up by that. But you know you've got to get to sleep because your kid's going to wake up at probably six in the morning. Are you good at getting to sleep straight away? I think now it's more of a necessity. Like it used to be that you would kind of stay up. But Mabel's very cute and she kind of wakes up every morning where she goes, Mummy, it's morning time. And it's so sweet. but it's just like, let's go. Let's go. You know, so there's no, it's like you've got to get to sleep as soon as possible.

13:06I think it's hard sometimes when you've been driving for a long time. That's when you do a show and then you drive and then you have to try and switch off and you're like, don't drive into anything, you know, but you're like, I'm back. So your brain's still there. It's full on. I mean, you and your ex-husband have been pretty open about divorce. You went on a podcast where you individually talked about the process of divorce and how you're getting through it. does that feel cathartic like a helpful thing to be open about it i think i don't know if we would do that now um but um i think it was no it wasn't a regret it just and when things are clipped up um and then put online and um all your old friends are seeing it and that's not necessarily something that you you need necessarily um and so um and so yeah i think we both are very open and we both have talked about things the whole time it's kind of with stand-up it's kind of how we process stuff yeah um but yeah it's not um it's not completely straightforward no of course not yeah and I guess that is you know I if I if shit hits the fan in my life I usually end up writing a book about it and it does feel quite cathartic and also like oh there's a book there's a book that's come out of it for you I'm imagining material you're getting material out of it That's it.

14:21I had the year that we divorced was one of the maddest years of my life. And things would happen that would be really bad at the moment. But I'd be like, this is going to be really fun for other people later. This feels bad right now. But this is this is for the people, you know, that are going to be great. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to enjoy laughing at my pain. This is absurd. Yeah. No, I think it's a really healthy thing to be chatting about it and also finding the humor in it. Being a stand-up and obviously naturally leaning into humour, have you always had the ability to turn tricky things on their head slightly or to see the funny side?

14:57I find it really helpful. I think in my life, like when I've had shame, if I can then make it into a joke, you have a power over it. When you manage to make it funny, it's almost like you've kind of, unless you're doing it from a place of pain, it sometimes can feel like you've got to the other side of it. And you can really tell if you've got to the other side of it because people laugh at the joke and if they don't laugh it's because they're worried about you so you really can tell quite quickly um if it's if you're through it or not but yeah I find it really helpful I am I'm dyspraxic and when I was younger there was a lot of chaos falling over breaking things and I think dyspraxics are very good at um having a sense of humor and laughing at yourself and I find it a very a very helpful thing I think to not take yourself too seriously yeah I think you're so right especially with shame because shame breathes in silence and if you've got something you know ruminating or something you're really worried about the minute you tell someone it does just dissipate slightly or takes the edge off it or something that felt maybe mortifying becomes embarrassing like one degree better yeah the more you share it it's like you give a little bit of shame to everybody else yeah you have my shame you have it you share the embarrassment out and then it filters and you're not just alone um feeling and feeling overwhelmed by it yeah without a doubt you had a show um a big show in london called everything always works out for me now this is based on a quote that you and your friends heard and what did you think when you heard that quote straight away it was something me and um my friend um melissa um uh heard it was like on it was on tiktok like i think a lot of um teenagers were saying it they'd be like everything always works out for me and then they get like um they'd be like it did because i got free chips um so but we were trying to look at it as like a kind of a bigger thing and it's something me and Lou always say as well like we always try and say like everything always works out for me and when we were in Glastonbury she her phone had broken on the way to Glastonbury and then we got to Glastonbury and she was like I'm gonna go out in Glastonbury and buy an iPhone and everyone was like no obviously that's not gonna happen and everyone was like that's no one's gonna have an iPhone for sale at Glastonbury no and so we left the other bit and we were like kind of we walked all around Glastonbury we couldn't find anything and then we walked back again and we were like oh and then we ran into um someone was walking towards us in my cap saying everything always works out for me from my tour show it was our friend pete and he happened to be wearing it he bought it a year before he appeared out of nowhere walked towards us wearing this hat and then we said he said oh where have you been we're like oh we're just looking for an iphone but we can't find one like we shouldn't have been looking last week he's like my wife hazel has a spare iphone what and he had an iphone so everything always works out for me walk towards us that is amazing we have to repeat it yes we do yeah because sometimes when you hear those affirmation things obviously i hear a lot of this stuff and i interview a lot of people that are like you know people here doing workshops today on positive affirmation and mindset and when you're in a good mood you're like yeah i'm going to take over the world everything is going to work out for me when things are going badly that is the most annoying thing to hear yeah like in the world that's the last thing you want to hear it's the pits yeah you want to try and be positive but me and lou always say whenever we're going anywhere we go well we can't pull here we can't pull anywhere um but then we don't uh sometimes sometimes being positive backfires yeah so are you going out as single ladies together um no we've just been on some holidays and stuff um and um and then yeah we always say that and then we just go to bed early um what's dating like life have you been sort of on apps or going on speed dating is that a thing or was that a 90s thing?

18:28I'm very out of the loop. No, we did. So I have a podcast. It's called Single Ladies in Your Area because we missed, me and my friend Amy, Amy Gledhill, she's a comedian, she's very funny. We both came out of these kind of decade-long relationships and we'd missed dating apps. So in the first episode, Amy set up her Hinge profile on the podcast and then we did go to a speed dating event. The problem was it became like a slow dating event. I'm not sure what happened but the first one was 45 minutes. Wow. That's too long. Does that mean it's going well? No, it wasn't going well in any way. But it went on and on.

19:03It was so long. So we tried speed dating. That was slow dating. But yeah, we're trying lots of different things. And I think for the first year after the divorce, I just kind of, my whole body was just like confused, I think. And I kind of shut down. And I think I also kind of saw myself as like, my identity was like married woman. So it was like, I am prude married woman. you know like an old Victorian lady and then it just felt so weird to kind of go out there again and be like oh no remember who you were before let's not go as far as we were in our early 20s but let's rate it in a bit but remember who you are you can still have fun even though you have a child and how is that I mean I've heard you talk about this a bit on the podcast but being a comedian being funny how does that work out in the sort of early days of dating well there's this yeah there is this rhetoric that like men don't really like funny women that it's like a thing that they're off put by and I'm trying to change the rhetoric um by saying that they do they don't um but I'm trying to change it but then I keep saying it in these interviews and it really backfires because it becomes the headline I did this interview with them uh with the independent and then I was like you know I'm just they were like what do you think about dating like do men like funny women you know it can be a thing and I was like actually only insecure men don't like um funny women and um my sis and then I was like oh that's going to be the headline and then my sister read the article and she was like Harriet it wasn't the headline it's not in it and I was like no no no look at the front page of the independent there's a picture of me looking really smug going only insecure men don't like funny women it's completely and we've just talked about it again so that's really good you've done it again babe so when things aren't working out brilliantly for you are you good at coping um I I think so I think so I'm quite good at laughing at things I think and they do go wrong quite often so I have experience I guess in that way um I guess I think so what about on stage if things aren't going well on stage how do you cope well it's the best way to cope is to try and find it funny and then try and connect with them because if you're having a fun time they will the worst thing is pretending that it's not going badly because then everyone everyone can see you know and that's not fun yeah and then you just start speaking quicker and quicker and just kind of being like let's just get this over with and everybody's like yeah it's so hard you know we've had many stand-up comedians on the podcast and it's something I'm always so intrigued about because it is a tough job you know especially when you're starting out and you've got to deal with almost instant rejection of people not really knowing who you are in those early days of doing stand-up, trying new material for the first time, not knowing if it's going to land or not.

21:49And that is a horrible feeling when, especially when you're telling a joke, you want laughter at the end of it. If there isn't any, that's bleak. Yeah, it's a pretty brutal, people call it an art form, I don't know if it is, but it's a pretty brutal thing. It's like one of the only things where there's immediate feedback. And so you know if something doesn't work because people don't laugh, which is, you know, helpful in some ways. Do you think you have to have a thick skin or you cultivate one? No, you do. I think I know people that have done it that have found it very hard to deal with the setbacks.

22:22I think for me being dyspraxic helped in that I was used to making mistakes. And I think you just have to be used to getting rejected, which I think then stands you in good stead for dating. I think having a thick skin and not taking things personally is a useful thing for life. Are there any areas of your life where that doesn't apply? Because sometimes I could be pretty resilient at work and if I'm, you know, up for a job and it didn't happen or whatever, I can sort of deal with it. But then in my actual life, that doesn't always translate as clearly. Would you say there's bits, you know, parts of your life where you're not as thick skinned or rejection feels a bit stingier?

22:59I guess with parenting, like making mistakes, that's like you never want to make a mistake with parenting. And that's been a thing that you definitely, you're more raw, I think, to it. But we all do like every day. Yeah, that's what's tough. I do at least like four mistakes every day. I mean, as I was just saying before you came out, I let my kids watch Last One Laughing. I don't know if that's even appropriate. There was some pretty racy things that happened in bad language. But I was like, they're going to love this. And they did. yeah so far i've heard of um i've heard of um children watching it one said that um the child tried to recreate the ping pong ball thing it's not that's not so if we if you haven't seen that harriet could you explain what that is okay i set myself up there um i uh i did this this uh striptease and i think maybe the least sexy striptease where i took off a compression sock and some bandages and some plasters.

23:57And then I mimed... What are the words to describe it? Yeah, looking at everyone in the face. I mimed being able to do a popular trick with ping balls coming out of what the Daily Mail has called my nether regions. There you go. It was so good. It was so good because it was so unexpected. I didn't see it coming. I really didn't. It was great. I've heard you say before that your style of comedy, it's not something that you can make up. You're just, you're, oh, it's a butterfly. It's like we're in a fairy tale. Oh my God. You're just, you're just obviously you and you have a tendency to overshare in that setting.

24:39Is that something you worry about? I think definitely now having Mabel, I'm much more conscious about what I say. Like I would never want to say anything negative about her that's something that I I don't want to have anything in print that then she grows up and she looks at the internet she's like my mom said what yeah um I think that would feel bad and so that's something I'm very conscious about um but I I just I just it's just something I can't help doing yeah it's like a compulsion I'm the same I overshare when I'm nervous or I'm with someone that's giving me nothing and I then give them too much and then I go to bed and I can't sleep.

25:15So I just am in a worry cycle about all the things I said. I get that. I think it's just like, I find it, I can, it's a way of connecting. Like I think I find small talk very difficult. I never really know what to say. I hate it. Yeah. I hate it too. So I'd rather just really go deep straight away. Yeah. I'm the same. The worst thing is if you go to a wedding and they do the, I'm going to mix you up with people you don't know, cause that's going to be fun. And you can make friends with my friends. I don't want to. I've got friends. I don't want your friends. And can I go and sit with my friend Ali down there?

25:47Because I'll be comfortable down there. It's the worst thing. And then you have to do bullshit small talk. And weddings are so long. They go on for like a day. And I'm the same as you. I'll cut to the bleakest thing that's ever happened to me. Rather than ask them, are you going on a holiday? It's the bit. They don't like it. No. They don't like it. Maybe that's what we're secretly hoping for. They'll then just leave. Yeah, maybe that's it. It really brings down the wedding. It really does. Swirl Talk is the absolute.

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28:30doing stand-up is obviously quite a niche career and it's not something that perhaps you get in your school careers advising session they say you should do stand-up and i've heard you say before your parents actually kind of prompted you to do it yeah i've never met another stand-up still whose parents have suggested it no everyone else is like i want my child to be a lawyer you know a doctor and mine are like I guess stand up we've run out of other options and so yeah it was very sweet they were watching um I thought I wanted to do like um acting like serious acting but I was getting kind of more and more kind of like comedy roles and then um and I'd started to do bits of writing and my parents were watching live at the Apollo one night and I spoke to my mum the next day and she was like we think you should try stand-up comedy and I was like that's mad um like no one I knew did stand-up it wasn't a thing I grew up watching or or seeing anyone I knew doing she was like no I think we should do it and I went out and I just kind of did it secretly for months because it felt so embarrassing to say that I thought that I was funny and so that's something I do really recommend I think people kind of tell people when they're going to do it and that's a lot of pressure I think just do it secretly but how do you go from your parents have said you should try stand up to then you're on a step like what's the process of literally googled stand up London and this um this night came up that you could just apply for and so I applied for it in like two months and I was like well I bet I've got to write a five minute set which I didn't really know how to do but then I started watching like I've um started watching some comedy online I'd seen um a few people because I was um uh working front of house at the Lyric in Hammersmith and they'd started to do a um a stand-up night every sun every Sunday once a month um every once a month on a Sunday you know what I mean it was once a month on a Sunday okay yeah last Sunday of the month um it was catchy so and Sarah Millican had been on and Richard Herring and um Tony Law and I was like oh these are I could kind of start to see people that were maybe a little bit like me I guess um and um yeah then I um I just did it and as soon as I did it I was like this is it this is the thing such a terrifying thing to do though I felt sick I felt sick for days I bet but you still did it I think that's always like the interesting point where you've had this idea it's so terrifying I reckon 99 % of people at that point go I'll just won't do it or I'll do it next year and then it never happens is that just would you say in your personality to throw yourself in the deep end and just give things a try yeah what is wrong with me um yeah no it definitely is I always I've had this um motto I don't know why since I was young which is just to do the thing that scares you the most um and it really scared me and but I think it is this thing I say like a lot of people say to me oh I'd like to try stand-up and I say you just have to book it in and then it's in it's something about having like a I'm very kind of um accountable to others and so I did it and then someone offered me a gig from that and then you get offered another gig and then before you know it it's too late yeah you're in it yeah I mean what what was that first gig like you're you're waiting backstage you're waiting to go on you're feeling sick I've it was it was just insane I've never known fear like it it just was mad and then I for so for months I was doing this job where I had to be at my desk at 6 a.m every day and typing up the news it was like I got replaced by robots pretty quickly um but you had to type up the news and then but you were listening to all these like terrible like news things and then I started stand-up at that point and so I was just like going a bit insane just listening to bad news and not getting much sleep because I had to be at my desk.

32:10Because I didn't tell anyone. I then, when I did eventually tell people I worked with, they were like, oh, we thought you had a really bad drug problem or something. Because you were just going around talking to yourself. I was just repeating my set. And so it was this period of my life when I started stand-up that it just, at one point, my kidneys hurt. I was like, this can't be good. This can't be good, yeah. But I'm still going to do it anyway. I'm still doing it, yeah. I think the thing that puts most people off, like when I've had chats like this or even just chatting to mates when you've got an idea you want to I don't know you want to write a book or you want to change career you want to try something new the thing that stops us doing it is the fear of failure because that risk is it's a real risk it's it's there what's your relationship with that like with knowing that you could fail it might not work out I think that is again it's a good thing with dyspraxia is that you're used to failing so much it becomes like a thing you're good at me and my friend Melissa talk about this as well there is another thing is just like you have to go through the cringe like whenever you start anything you're bad at it and it's so embarrassing and to put yourself out there is um is just so humbling um in so many ways I mean and so you start stand-up and friends come and watch you some nights and it doesn't go well and they're like wow she's really doing this uh you know um sometimes it goes well and it's just at the beginning you know you're not good you have to you have to be bad for a bit yeah without a doubt I think that's also a real modern day problem is that we think we're meant to be good at the thing straight away and actually most things take years and years I was awful at interviewing for obviously I was like 15 I don't know what on earth I was like interviewing bewitched talking utter shite or five all of the bands of the time um and it takes like hundreds of hours to get good at something and you've just got to stick these things out Yeah, I think what is helpful is I have really low expectations for myself.

34:03I'm always thrilled to be anywhere. This is nice. Thanks for having me. You know, that helps. Have you got a gig that went so badly you can't forget about it? Yep. Go on. Possibly my least favourite, I talked about it a little bit on Last One Loving, was one in Middlesbrough. I think it was Middlesbrough Town Hall. And the audience got into an argument with each other in the middle as to whether they liked me or not. Wow. So it was nice that some people were sticking up for me. And the people that did like me, they did win. And so they were like, carry on, keep going. But then I continued and it was like, we don't like you enough to actually go with this.

34:41And then the show finished. And I've never been chatted up more in my life. I think this is proof, you know, about men not liking funny women. They were like, oh, look at this poor idiot. You know, I can get her. You have a good gig and the men are like, hello? No one's around. But Middlesbrough, bombing in Middlesbrough, that's what you can call. I mean, are you traumad when you go back to Middlesbrough? I actually have not been back to Middlesbrough. I guess I need to face it one day. Yeah, you like facing your fears. There we go. Good thing for you. Yeah. Also, the other thing that's really humbling is being a parent.

35:19And often you could do something great at work where you feel so chuffed about yourself. come home and you're instantly humbled and grounded does that happen often oh it happens it happens all the time I think it's um incredibly healthy like friends of mine are like oh but what do you think about if Mabel like listens to this or watches this when she's older I'm like she's not gonna care like why you're not gonna want to watch your mum no she's not interested in that and um I think it's very healthy I think especially doing something like this where it's so um self-indulgent and you're talking about yourself and you're um i think it's very it's very good to um to be brought back down to earth i agree five times a day yeah oh yeah at least my my best one was when my uh son was about well he's maybe 18 months old or something i had done this really lovely documentary about coldplay they were making that album ghost stories and it was all really gorgeous and quite grand going to these lovely studios and you know waxing lyrical about all these unusual instruments they were using and I was really loving it and I interviewed Chris Martin at the end of the day got home on an absolute high like just loving the whole day that I've had and it was bath time when I get in so I was putting my son in the bath and as I picked him up he just shit all over the floor it was just a tsunami of shit that I had to deal with and it was like I'm hope and yep i interviewed chris martin but this is my actual life yeah yeah yeah it's mad it is it's absolutely mad it's just completely bonkers um what keeps you feeling calm and centered in a job that is hectic hour wise and also just the relentless nature of now you know i think comedy is changing so many ways because there's not only you doing stand-up there's now social media is this huge part of it where you need to be creating your own content and making stuff that draws people into your world yeah it's um yeah there's just there's a lot of different jobs within it I think now but I think that is just what life has kind of become for a lot of people like there's just everything there's just more that you have to do um I think I think friends that um I think that's also a good thing about coming through divorce you know like you realize what good friends you have and I think I've found like a really good like um community of women you know and that's that's the most amazing thing um and it's also making sure that I'm spending enough time with Mabel that's that's something that you have to kind of make sure that you're doing when things are a bit crazy it's like that's something I'm learning is trying to prioritize a little bit and be like it's I find it so hard to say no to things because you just feel like everything's going to go away yeah um and so that is a that is a real fear that I have but you have to you have to otherwise I don't think that ever goes I mean I've absolutely got that I panic all the time that I just won't have a job next year I don't think that ever leaves you it's just a constant sort of worry and it is quite a weird flimsy job to be in it's not like oh we're you've got a contract and you're working here for the next four or five years it's like you just hope people keep liking what you're doing.

38:28That is it. I do know a lot of men, though, that I'm not sure if that applies. Right, yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course people want to be here forever. Yeah, of course. So I do think it can be a slightly more female-skewing thing. I mean, well, the world of comedy is incredibly male-heavy. Like, there are... It's disproportionately male in the stand-up world. And, you know, we can look back and go, yes, you know, French and Saunders were there and they were doing their thing back in the day, but they were the anomalies. There was really not much else going on. Did you find that when you were certainly on the stand-up circuit, that that bothered you?

39:01Yeah, definitely. I think it has shifted a bit, but it hasn't shifted enough. But when I started, I hardly ever gigged with other women. It was like they'd put one woman on reluctantly because they knew they should. But then you never gigged with other women. So often the weekends, I'd just be with older men who were all mates, and then I'll just be there and it is kind of lonely you know and now the women in comedy we've got such a good network everyone's kind of really got each other's back because I think as well when you start you're you're told that you're each other's kind of enemies if there's one spot on everything on every show then there's only one of you that can get it and that feels horrible and actually it's much better if we're a group and it's really nice if we can be together and so yeah I think I think it has and also when I when I used to go on stage when you're just on with a bunch of men that are quite similar then when you walk out it was like I guess like a subconscious thing but I remember when I I would walk out on stage sometimes men would just get up and go to the toilet because they'd be like oh this is the toilet break but it wouldn't even be like a conscious thing they'd just be like oh this isn't going to apply to me I'll just go to the toilet now and so you you're given more of a chance I think most places hopefully or but do you then therefore feel like you've got to prove yourself more yeah absolutely because you feel like you can't you are the you are the one that has to show them that they should like women and it's got so much better but it used to be people coming up to you and saying oh you know like I am I don't usually find um women funny but I think and you're like that is that is you've never had a funny sister or friend or aunt like this is madness like the funniest people I know are women like this is craziness um and it's often women that would be saying that it's it's like hard to get your head around and I think it is happening less again I'm manifesting that yeah it's happening less it's happening less but I guess whatever you know we all grew up watching a lot of male comedians on tv and sitcoms or if you were you know lucky enough to go to watch a stand-up show So I guess it's just that's what you're used to.

41:10You're used to seeing a man in that role. And now, as you say, we've got this amazing wave of female comics who are doing their thing and just blowing that theory out the water. And hopefully young girls will see that and then they'll know that that's a thing available to them. I think it's a thing where if you grow up watching it, then you're like, oh, that is a thing that I could do. Whereas it wasn't anything I ever thought that I could do. No, of course. Oh, it's such a brilliant thing. I love it. So you've got what's coming up for the rest of the year for you. Have you got your touring? Yeah, I need to, I'm going to do another show.

41:42So I need to do that and trying to do lots of writing and random bits. And yeah, the podcast. So yeah. Podcasting is so great. You talking there about female comedians all coming together and other people might pit you against each other or compare you. But actually you've got this really lovely little group that all support each other. I think podcasting is like that. I've made so many mates like Elizabeth Day and Jamie Lang and Jake Humphrey and Rangan Chatterjee and everyone, you know, anyone could listen to any one of those and you could pick them against each other. But actually, it's such a lovely little supportive world where everyone champions each other.

42:22And it's really lovely. I think it's true. I don't know if it's a thing that it's because you kind of do it yourself. It's like a thing that you kind of you're not you don't need anyone else for it. You can just do it yourself. I don't know if that's a reason. Well, you can just do, you make up the rules. Yeah. You can just say whatever you want, which is good and bad at times. Well, it's so brilliant. And you've got your daughter here today. Are you going to go and check out the kids' area? Yeah, we're loving the kids' area. She's got face painted. Yes. It's all go. Are you going to do like a sound bath or something?

42:52Oh, that would be nice. Done one before? I did do one actually in LA and I just got really cross, which I don't know is the right reaction but I found it very stressful. So I think that means that's probably a sign I need more sound bath. Yeah, what was it just anger came up? Yeah, I was just like, oh God, why is that gonging happening all the time? But that's the whole thing, isn't it? Yeah, that's the whole thing. That's why you're there. It's not for everyone. We say this all the time. You might try yoga and think, I absolutely hate this or you might do a sound bath and think it's a load of old shit.

43:24Do you pick the thing that you like doing? That's the whole point, isn't it? I don't like when, I don't even like the words wellness or well-being, but when it's prescriptive, it's so annoying because you think, oh, I'm meant to be loving this. And when you don't, you feel like there's a problem with you. You've got to find the thing you like. I completely agree. Yoga, I could never quite get into, but Reforma Pilates, I love for some reason. I think it's because you're lying down. There's just something that you just move your arms and legs. I just find it so, like it is hard, but there's just something about just being able to lie down, like that you're encouraged that that's what you have to do.

43:57Yeah, you're forced to almost. Find your thing, make wellness whatever you want it to be. Well, look, Harriet, I'm going to end by asking you a question. Actually, did I ask Clara this morning? I meant to ask everyone and I always forget there's irony involved because the question is, where is your happy place? We ask everybody this. I have like three. You can do three. So one is on stage when it's going well and I feel like I'm myself and now you're in a flight. One is I love snowboarding. um it's when you're in the mountains and it's maybe there's just like a kind of flow state which i think is a bit like stand up when you're kind of in it like it's this place day and then the other one has to be like at home with mabel and my dog how long do you reckon it took you to get into flow state with your stand up because i think that again requires not just natural ability but hours and hours of practice to feel comfy because i when i do stuff like this i feel absolutely at home super super comfortable I might have a healthy amount of nerves before I do it but when I'm in it I feel really really relaxed whereas there's other things like if you told me to do stand-up I would feel the most unrelaxed or sing I would feel terrified how long did it take you to get to that point I think it just it it just depends it's not a thing that you have every single gig and when you get into that flow state it's amazing and they were I'd have flashes of it at the beginning and I'd be like oh this is it and then you do one show and you wouldn't quite get it and so it's the great thing with stand-up that I love is it is a journey it's a thing you can do for the rest of your life and just keep getting better at and that's there's always something that you're working on and you're trying to improve and that is one of the reasons I think that I I love it so much you're never as good as you want to be yeah I love that about this it's just like you just you can hopefully just keep getting better and better there's yeah it's sort of a limitless thing it's so great are there comedians that you look to that you think oh my god they are they're it they're nailing it i want that i think maria bamford is somebody i don't know if you've ever seen her she um she's an american comic and she's so completely she's like kind of very like raw on stage and she's but she's completely kind of her own thing and her jokes are so funny they're kind of dark but they're um they're brilliant and She's so funny and unique.

46:14So I love her and I love Nate Bagazzi, this American comic who's a bit kind of like, he's kind of like a regular guy, but he's a bit like offbeat. And yeah, he's really funny and he's killing it in America right now. Okay, we'll check them out. And my final, final question is, have you ever been hotter than this in your entire life? Never. I have sweat in places I didn't know I had. It's madness. I don't know if I'm even here anymore. Yeah. Slightly died. Yeah, is everyone okay? Yeah. they've got fans they're fine we haven't we've got nothing not even a light breeze but look we can go and just I might go home get naked and stand in front of a fan if that's alright with you if that's okay with you Harriet you're an absolute joy I love you and thank you so much for being at the Happy Place Festival give it up for Harriet Kemsley I hope my butt is wet I love that oh see you mate oh I love that Harriet is just such a good energy to be around.

47:14I just loved having her at the festival. She was so chilled. She was so chilled when she arrived. So chilled on stage. It was just brilliant having a chat with her. I've got to go and see her do stand up. I really do. Oh, and by the way, I mentioned the chat that I just had with Clara at the festival too. You'll be able to hear that next week. Oh, it was so lovely, this chat. Clara is such a legend and you're going to absolutely adore that conversation and that is coming up next week. While I've got you, let me quickly tell you about the book that we're going to be reading in the Happy Place Book Club in August.

47:45It's called Namaste Motherfuckers, a modern manifesto for keeping cool when you're a hot mess, which I've never needed more. And it's by the brilliant comedian Callie Beaton. Really excited to read it with you lot. So come and join us on Instagram at Happy Place Book Club. We're going to have some great discussions there. And actually I'm going to be interviewing Callie at the next Happy Place Festival at Tatton Park. So if you're coming along to that, that is going to be a lot of fun. Right, until next time, a massive thanks again to... Hi, this is Nox from the Popcast with Nox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors.

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