In short
Anti-ableist allyship at work—how ableism shows up in policies, day-to-day behavior, and HR/AI systems, and what coworkers can do to intervene and build inclusion.
Guests
Lydia X.Z. Brown, disability justice advocate, attorney, and organizer; leads the Center for Democracy and Technology’s work on algorithmic bias and discrimination impacting disabled people.
Key claims
Ableism is systemic and values-based (not just slurs). “Inclusive” workplaces can still be ableist via denied accommodations, lack of paid leave, dismissive HR, unsafe environments, and algorithmic hiring/management that discriminates against disabled people.
Notable examples
Law school where accommodation requests were denied yet peers accused her of “special treatment.” Workplace examples include no paid family/medical leave, HR ignoring complaints, and AI tools using facial recognition, personality testing, resume screening, and productivity surveillance. Allyship advice: speak up in the moment; use go-to phrases; bystander “deflect and distract”; avoid performative apologies; take accountability.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOUnderstanding Ableism in the Workplace
0:04 to 0:27
Discussion about how ableism manifests in workplace policies and behaviors.
“It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.”
Understanding Ableism in the Workplace
1:55 to 3:38
Discussion about how ableism manifests in workplace policies and behaviors.
“Brown, disability justice advocate, attorney, and organizer.”
Impact of Technology on Disability
3:45 to 4:20
Exploration of how algorithmic hiring practices can perpetuate ableism.
“with disabilities experience discrimination or bias at work, often being misjudged, insulted, avoided, or made to feel uncomfortable.”
Creating an Anti-Ableist Culture
4:52 to 5:40
Suggestions for fostering a culture that supports disabled individuals in workplaces.
“Everyone has the same opportunities as everybody else.”
Becoming a Better Ally
8:22 to 12:29
Advice on how to effectively intervene and support disabled colleagues.
“Where something awful happens in a public setting or, you know, public within an organization.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. Listen to the heartbeat. Chevy is called the heartbeat of America for a reason. With SUVs made to move with your rhythm.
0:35The versatile Equinox tackles your entire day. The spacious Traverse fits your crew and your whole weekend. And Trax brings style with value you can count on. All infused with tech that has your back. So your drive always hits the right chord. Chevrolet. Together let's drive. Here's some facts. One in four adults in the U.S. live with some sort of disability. Three out of five adults in the U.S. live with at least one chronic health condition. And over one billion people in the world live with some type of disability. These numbers are significant and growing. And yet, ableism is still a problematic issue, especially at work.
1:17Ableism is discrimination or social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that typical abilities are superior. Similar to sexism or racism or ageism, ableism is wrong, ableism is hurtful, and ableism is systemic. So what does ableism look like at work? And if you do see it, how do you be a better ally? And how can we all work toward creating a fairer work environment that is inclusive to all? In this video, we're going to address all these questions and more. Ready to fight ableism at work together? Let's go.
1:54if you're in a workplace where you know no one who is in a position of power is actually paying attention to very basic means of access and support long-term and short-term for employees or for customers or clients then you're in a workplace that is operating in really ableist ways, even if no one is swinging around obvious ableist slurs. That's Lydia X.Z. Brown, disability justice advocate, attorney, and organizer. They currently lead the Center for Democracy and Technology's work on algorithmic bias and discrimination impacting disabled people. It is much bigger and deeper than what words we're using.
2:38Ableism is a set of values and beliefs about what kinds of people are normal and what kinds of people aren't. Ableism in the workplace doesn't just show up in the language that we use. It also shows up in company policies, everyday behaviors that favor or even normalize ableist values. I remember for me, even when I was in law school, it was very common to hear other students complained that they thought I was receiving special treatment, which for us as disabled people, we know is code for, oh, you're getting an accommodation that we all think you don't deserve and you don't really need it and you're using it to get an unfair advantage.
3:17When, of course, accommodations are what are meant to level the playing field. But the true irony of those comments made about me was that I had had almost all of my accommodation requests denied by the law school. If you're listening to Lydia's story right now and thinking, that would never happen on my team. We're extremely inclusive. You might be right. But odds are, especially if you don't have a disability, you cannot see the work that needs to be done because it doesn't affect you personally. In a recent study, 34 % of people in the U.S. with disabilities experience discrimination or bias at work, often being misjudged, insulted, avoided, or made to feel uncomfortable.
3:57Lydia X. Z. Brown:If you've ever blasted synth beats from your boom box or burn CDs for your besties, this one's for you. As people get older, much like their music tastes, their health needs change. AG1 is the simple daily health drink designed to deliver over 75 essential daily nutrients and pre and probiotics to support energy, digestion and mood. So you can make the most out of every decade and dance break. Learn more at drinkag1.com. Your team just added its 67th AI tool and also your 67th security blind spot. The good news? The Vanta agent works like a GRC engineer in the background, finding every app your team uses, scoring the risk, and drafting fixes for you.
4:39Vanta is the platform used by over 16 ,000 fast-moving companies like Ramp, Cursor, and Harvey, who are shaping the future with AI and staying ahead of AI risk. Get started at Vanta.com. We can do better. That pervasive belief that non-disabled people can tell who is actually disabled and what disabled people need seeps into our workplace as such that most non-disabled people assume, well, of course, some disabled people might face ignorance, but disabled people are treated well. There's no ableism here. Everyone respects everybody. Everyone has the same opportunities as everybody else. And that is a very, very privileged position.
5:26As Alidia explains, ableism at work isn't always super obvious. It can be kind of subtle. Even at companies who earnestly try to cultivate an inclusive culture, certain policies can prove otherwise or even perpetuate a discriminatory environment. When you're in a workplace where there's absolutely no paid family or medical leave policy in place, that's an ableist policy. If you're in a workplace where HR routinely dismisses and ignores complaints, then you're probably functioning in a really ableist workplace. If you're in a workplace where people don't feel safe, being able to ask for basic needs to be met, like asking for people to please not eat nuts in the lunchroom or asking, you know, do you mind if I wear my sunglasses because I'm getting migraines?
6:09Those are examples of some policies that are administered, managed and ultimately decided by humans. But that's not all there is. A lot of companies are also using smart HR tech solutions that are trying to make efficient data-driven decisions using metrics and AI. These companies think that using algorithms instead of humans will reduce unconscious bias. But in a lot of cases, AI can be ableist too. Employers are increasingly using algorithmic selection measures that might be reviewing candidates before any humans ever look at somebody's applications and throw people out based upon facial recognition technologies that are analyzing how people move and what their speech is through personality testing, through resume screening software, all of which can be discriminatory against disabled people for a huge swath of reasons.
7:01But then even once people are hired, more employers are using algorithmic management software, which can surveil workers as well as enforce really dangerous standards for productivity. whether that's workers who are performing physical labor or workers who are doing office work from home. This is really troubling. Is there anything that we can do to create a culture of anti-ableism? One of the most powerful things you can do is to speak up when something goes down. It can be as simple as saying, not cool, or that's not funny. Figure out your go-to ally phrase ahead of time so that you can act quickly in the moment.
7:41Being a true ally is having the courage to intervene. As a marginalized person, one of the phenomena that I hate the worst is the particular brand of performative... Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made$15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Well, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.
8:13Lydia X. Z. Brown:Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Allyship. Where something awful happens in a public setting or, you know, public within an organization. Someone says something racist or ableist and in the moment. And nobody says anything. but a few hours later or the next day or a week later well-meaning white or non-disabled colleagues will then walk up to me and say oh Lydia I just wanted to let you know I felt so awful it was so upsetting to hear that person say that comment that they said in that meeting or in that event like that was so wrong of them and you know I really wish I could have said something in the moment but like I'm just so sorry that like you had to deal with that and like please know that I'm here for you.
9:01And you know, I'm standing there thinking, so why didn't you say something then if it was actually a problem, if you actually care? Because when it counted, when other people could witness what you were doing, you were silent. So if you're dealing with someone who has more power than you, or you just don't feel safe being confrontational in the moment, Lydia suggests using bystander intervention skills. One way to do that is called deflect and distract. Basically, you just want to get that person out of that toxic environment as soon as possible. For example, you can say to your friend, hey, sorry to interrupt, but can you come help me?
9:39Or can I get your eyes on this for a second? Just do something to interrupt it. And if you are able then to go with your colleague to another location out of earshot, you can say like, I've got you. Would you like me to file a complaint with HR? Because someone might say they don't want to, and you shouldn't be filing complaints if someone doesn't consent to that. But maybe they say, yes, I would really like to complain. Will you help me? Being a better ally is a matter of educating yourself. It's going to take time and practice to learn. You're going to make mistakes. And when it happens, how you respond is very crucial.
10:15I mean, the first thing that most of us want to do if someone tells us you're doing something hurtful or more, you know, overtly, you're doing something fucked up. The first thing that most of us want to do is to be really defensive because we're taught in our society that any form of criticism is automatically a personal attack. But we have to work really hard on resisting the urge to externalize our automatic defensiveness. It is okay to say, okay, I don't know if I'm in a place to hear all of this right this second. I need to process this for a minute. But it's our responsibility to take accountability for when we hurt other people.
11:02Lydia says we need to fix a broken system. If I had the magic wand, I would disappear capitalism. Like, that would go. Because our culture of just trying to accumulate and hoard wealth and keep it in the hands of large multinational corporations and maybe some of their executives and shareholders. That culture is one of exploitation and extraction. And that's not a culture I want to live in. I mean, I do believe in reducing the harmful impact of policies that currently exist while they continue to exist. But ultimately, my end goal is not to have nicer corporations. My end goal is to have a society where corporations are not one of our primary political actors.
11:51What strikes me about this whole thing is that it's true. Productivity is prize. It's a virtue. And as long as we keep rewarding those who are productive, we're going to live in an ableist society. We are producing for the bosses. We're not producing for the workers. To change that requires not just a complete overhaul of our political economic system, but it also means radically refiguring what the purpose of work is. As we're talking about advocacy and allyship, we're really talking about people. This is about our friends, our colleagues, our loved ones. We should really get this right. Ask yourself, what are the changes that you want to see?
From the publisher
How to Be an Anti-Ableist Ally | Christine vs Work
7 Dec 2023
---
When your company envisions a “normal” employee or a “normal” customer, who do they see? And when does that definition of “normal” underscore an ableist bias within the business?
00:00 Facts you should know
00:59 Meet Lydia X. Z. Brown
01:36 Is my workplace ableist?
03:33 What does ableism look like?
05:35 How to be an anti-ableist ally
07:42 How to own up to mistakes
08:40 What needs to change?
Ableism is defined as discrimination or social prejudice against people with disabilities based on the belief that typical abilities are superior. And, essentially, ableism is a set of values and beliefs about what kinds of people are normal and what kinds of people aren't. Similar to sexism, or racism, or ageism — ableism is wrong, ableism is hurtful, and ableism is systemic.
I wanted to know: What does ableism at work look like? If you do see it, how can you be a better ally? And what can we do to create fairer work environments that are inclusive to all? I sought answers from Lydia X. Z. Brown, disability justice advocate, disability studies adjunct professor, attorney-activist, and organizer. Watch and learn how to recognize ableist policies and systems at work, tactical ways to be a better ally, and why chasing productivity has a real human cost.
This video originally published on HBR's Ascend YouTube Channel in August, 2022.
Learn more about Lydia X. Z. Brown’s work:
https://lydiaxzbrown.com/
https://autistichoya.net/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lydiaxzbr...
Produced by Andy Robinson, Christine Liu, and Kelsey Alpaio
Video and Editing by Andy Robinson, Christine Liu
Animation and Design by Alex Belser and Karen Player
Subscribe to our newsletter:
https://hbr.org/email-newsletters?movetile_hbpascendnl&hideIntromercial=true
#humanrights #inclusion #allyship
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices




