Cirque du Soleil's Daniel Lamarre on How to Put Creativity at the Center of Your Strategy

0:01Daniel Lamarre:This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling smart move another smart move getting help from one of state farm's 19 000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling just another way to save with the personal price plan prices are based on rating plans that vary by state coverage options are selected by the customer availability amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state

1:05hi and welcome to harvard business reviews the new world of work i'm adi ignatius editor in chief of harvard business review and each week on this show we talk to executives on the front line about the future of work, about talent, about technology, and much more. So thank you for being with us. As ever, we have a great guest today. I will introduce him in a second. First, let's quickly hear from our friends at Unisys. Your employees went from working in one place to working in so many places. Our digital workplace solutions can help them all create and collaborate seamlessly. We're Unisys, and we do digital workplace solutions really well.

1:47All right, so welcome again to the New World of Work. Our guest today is Daniel Lamar. He is a French-Canadian. He is the Executive Vice Chairman of Cirque du Soleil, a position he took after serving for nearly two decades as the Circus and Entertainment Company's President and CEO. Cirque du Soleil, as many of you know, is a much-celebrated place of endless innovation and adaptation. And Danielle this year wrote a book about how others can learn from Cirque's creative management techniques. The book is called Balancing Acts, Unleashing the Power of Creativity in Your Life and Work. So, Danielle, welcome to the show.

2:26I'm so happy and honored to meet you today. And it's a great, great time to talk about creativity and how we're going to innovate. So I'm blessed to have the opportunity to talk with you today. Well, thank you. We feel the same way. We're really glad that you're here. And, you know, just to set context, could you talk just a little bit, just to set up the conversation about Cirque du Soleil's mission and maybe about how you came to the company? Yeah, this company, you know, started with a bunch of street performers begging at the corner of the street and move forward. Ten years later, you know, I had the opportunity to join the company when I thought the brand was ready to explode globally.

3:08And that's what I've been doing for the last two decades. And by the way, to our viewers, I'm speaking with Danielle Lamar, who is former CEO and executive vice chairman now of Cirque du Soleil. If you have questions for Danielle, put them in the chat box and we'll try to get to as many as we can later. Okay, so you come to Cirque du Soleil. It has a mission. It has some initial success. But as you said, you're trying to develop it, to scale it, to blow it up globally. Talk about that, the challenge of taking something that people love because it is unique and maybe they love because it's small, but taking that brand and making it big.

3:51Yeah. And two famous teachers from your school, from Harvard, have described it in their Blue Ocean strategy as we have developed a new category of show. And I truly believe that's what happened and that's how we've been successful. because if you try to describe a Cirque show, it's very difficult. You will probably start by saying it's not a circus show. It's not dance. It's not theatrical. And I would say that it's a blend of all of that. And at the end of the day, it became a very unique global brand called Cirque du Soleil. So, yeah, we were talking before the show and I said that, you know, my family fell in love with Cirque du Soleil.

4:31We were living in Hong Kong and we saw a couple of shows, allegria and saltimbanko and couldn't believe them this this this would have been in the 1990s and uh yeah it was as you say such a departure actually people want to put in the in the comment box what their favorite cirque show is i'd be interested what people say um so all right so

4:52Daniel Lamarre:you mentioned this episode is brought to you by google chrome you think you know a browser but gemini and chrome that's new they can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility, and availability varies 18+. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move.

5:25Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. The authors of Blue Ocean Strategy, Chan Kim and Renee Mobarn, had highlighted Cirque du Soleil as an example of an innovative company. And their whole idea is that you find, you know, a blue ocean, an undeveloped market that's brand new.

6:05You create a whole new category. So do you have any advice on people maybe who aren't in the circus business, but how to find an open space that's not being addressed already by business? Yeah, and really, you know, the motivation for me to write a book was I was motivated to promote creativity because that's what I've learned. I had the opportunity through all those years to see amazing and observing amazing creators such as our founder Guy Laliberté, but also international people like James Cameron and the Beatles. and watching them work, it has changed my personal and my professional life and really made my creativity at the forefront of everything I do.

6:53And today that's what I want to do. I want to promote creativity because I take a very radical stand, which is without creativity, there's no company, there's no organization. And I truly believe that. So let me push you on that. So how do you manage creativity? First and foremost, I think it's very important that you create an environment that nurture creativity. And what I mean by that is that you have to have your core business central in everything you do and in your environment. In our case, the founder hired me a clown called Madame Zazu, and Madame Zazu became a symbol of what we are. And internally, every day, I used her to remind our employees what our core business is.

7:49I'm not suggesting that everybody is hiring a clown. I'm suggesting that everybody find the right symbol to bring at the core of what they do a reminder of the purpose they have in life as an organization. so ed catmell who was uh you know the very successful creative leader at pixar for years um he he talked about how at the end of every show so he was similar to you trying to unleash kind of extraordinary innovation and creativity with each movie in this case but the end of it you know he almost wanted to kind of wipe everybody's brains clear so that with the next project, they didn't fall back into it.

8:35Well, this is how this company does things. There was a sort of a freshness with every project. Is that something that you think about as you're creating new shows? Yeah. First and foremost, I don't think of Cirque du Soleil as a hierarchy organization. And that's why every time we produce a new show, I will create a cell with all of our creators and artist. And I will say to all the administrative staff to stay away from that. I don't want them to think about, you know, some HR policy or some financial issues. I want them to really breathe and sleep and eat just thinking about making our next show very innovative, very entertainment.

9:23And that is very, very important that every show create an entertainment breakthrough. And that's the challenge I gave to the team every time we start a new show. And you've had an amazing record of success. There are probably some shows that were not a success. Are there one or two examples?

9:46Daniel Lamarre:This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom-scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move?

10:19Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Examples you could talk about where, you know, that didn't work and maybe what you learned from that. Yeah, I think it's very, very important that you understand that, you know, you take risk and sometimes you fail. And in our case, I remember we wanted to, you know, reinvent vaudeville as we did with circus.

10:58and fortunately using the brand of Cirque du Soleil was a big mistake because people were expecting to see an acrobatic show and there were some learnings from that and we took the time to do the post-mortem and to evaluate why it didn't work. To make my long story short, the reasons why it didn't work is that we couldn't bring the brand of Cirque du Soleil on a vaudeville show. That was counterproductive. And that's something that we've learned and we will always remember, you cannot put your brand on any type of shows or in some situation or any type of product or services. So be very, very respectful of your brand.

11:47Yeah, you can stretch your brand, but you don't want to stretch it so far that it's not sort of who you are. um so so you're talking about creativity encouraging creativity creativity sustaining it i'm sure there are people watching this who say yeah okay fine this is a circus company you know i work for whatever you know nothing that exciting so you know how so how is your message relevant to you know the the large number of viewers we have who don't happen to be in the circus business? Yeah, first of all, yes, we are blessed because Cirque du Soleil is a creative powerhouse. But my point is more fundamental than that.

12:28My point is it doesn't matter for what company or what organization you are working, you cannot use an excuse that you're not creative enough. If you're not creative enough, it's because you are not putting that priority in the forefront. I can challenge anybody in any type of organization. You can be creative in your employees communication. You can be creative in your marketing. Most importantly, you can be creative in redesigning and innovate in the way you are shaping your new products or your new services. You know, there is no excuse. Creativity has to be at the forefront because if you don't do that, then one day you will wake up and you will discover that your competitors has an edge on you and then you're in trouble.

13:20So don't wait for that. Just make sure that you are nurturing your creativity within the organization to keep your edge, to keep your leadership in whatever sector you are. So you're drumming up all that creativity within and trying to bring it out and celebrate it. You know, how do you bring in the voice of the customer, of the consumer, as you're in this, you know, sort of creative mindset? Yeah, people will be surprised to see how an organization like us is so analytical. Every night, every show, we are asking the customer to react. And if for whatever reason we see that there is an act that is not liked as much as the others, we're just going to take it out and we're just going to replace it by a better act.

14:10So it's very, very important that you are listening all the time, listening to your customer in priority, but also listening to your employees. You have to send a clear signal to your employees that you are in the lookout all the time for new ideas, new suggestions. And that's what we're trying to do here at Cirque is listen to our customer, but also listen to our employees.

14:38Daniel Lamarre:This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. They can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move?

15:12Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. And mobilize them behind the mission. mobilize them behind our new shows that we also share the credit when we have a big success. So I can see some good questions are coming in. And again, if you have questions for Danielle, put them in the chat box. I have a personal question first, which is, you know, there's a passage in your book where you talk about when Guy LaLiberté, the founder of Cirque, brought you into the company.

16:01And, you know, you were already very successful in the PR and events business. And I think it was it was your parents who thought, what, you know, run away and join the circus. But talk about, you know, how, you know, how do we make these big life changing decisions? How did you how did you make that decision? And what can we learn from that? Yeah, obviously, my parents, even my wife at the time, was not really excited about me leaving my job. I was the CEO of a TV network, and they were very proud of that. And the one thing that triggers the change is when Guy Laliberté said, Danielle, I read that you wanted to be international, and it won't happen to you with this Canadian TV network.

16:50If you want to be international, you have to join the circus. And that was the trigger for me. So you have to be true to your value and to your ambition. And even if it was a tough decision for me to join the circus, it was an easy decision when I learned and I realized that to become international, that was the right platform. And then after that, everything became clearer for me. And obviously, I never regret that because I had the opportunity with Guy to travel the world and promote this most important global brand. And I strongly suggest that when you are in front of a new opportunity, you should think about, you know, what's your ambition?

17:37Where do you want to be in five years from now? And I guess the answer will become clearer and your decision process will be much easier. That's great advice. So then let's fast forward. You have this period of sensational growth, expansion, and then COVID hits. And live performances are not possible. You know, obviously the company is hit hard. You end up with a new sort of investor structure. Can you talk about how you survived that period and where the company is now? Yeah, that was a nightmare. That was the toughest period in my life. And I know it was for a lot of people in different sectors.

18:19But in my case, within 48 hours, I came from 44 shows to zero show. went from a billion dollars of revenues to zero revenue. And my purpose in life, I took great pride in creating jobs for artists. And then I end up in a situation when I had to let go not only 2 ,000 artists, but all of our 5 ,000 employees. That was a disaster. And for 15 months, I was struggling to make sure that the company can remain alive. So imagine a meeting. You're meeting with the bankers. You have to tell them, I have no revenues, I have no shows, and by the way, I need$375 million more to sustain the relaunch of our company.

19:06The only reasons why I got their support and why I'm here now so happy about the outcome is the strength of the brand. It's the brand that saved the company because the bankers were convinced that the brand will make this company successful after the crisis. And that's exactly what happened.

19:57This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. So I'm going to go to some audience questions because there's some good ones coming in. And this first one is from George who is watching on YouTube.

20:30And it's really – well, the question is how can creativity be implemented in our own lives, in our personal lives? What personal strategies can we follow to unlock that kind of creativity that you talked about? Yeah, I think it's important that we're a beast of habits, as we all know. And that's what you have to fight first. You have to do things differently all the time, and you have to find ways to be inspired by reading more, by visiting events, by talking to inspiring people. You know, people that I had the opportunity to meet, like the Beatles and James Cameron and others, has changed my life because they brought me some fresh air.

21:19They brought me some new ways of seeing lives. And kill your habits, things differently, and make your life much more fun by meeting people that are inspiring, by reading more. And at the end, which is also very, very important, spend the time to reflect. We don't spend enough time reflecting. And I strongly suggest that you do. And that's what I've learned. And that's why my life now is fulfilled by more creativity. But at the end of it, much more fun. So we sort of take for granted now that, you know, there is this Cirque, you know, Beatles show in Las Vegas and that it's amazing. And so many of us have seen it.

22:06And talk a little bit about the process of getting the Beatles and their heirs, their people who represented them, to get them to an agreement, which was pretty difficult. I mean, talk a little bit about that process. Yeah. You know, for many, many years, all the entertainment, all the live entertainment company were chasing the Beatles to do a show with their catalog, their music catalog. and nobody succeeded. And it took me two years of my life negotiating with them because it was not about money. It was about making sure that we will respect their brand. And, you know, after spending quite a bit of time with the four of them, including Yoko at the time, we showed them respect by, you know, working the creative process side by side with them and not position ourselves as the salesman of their intellectual property, but we position ourselves as true creative partners.

23:19And that's why at the end of the day, it ended up being an amazing adventure. Not only did we love it, But so they did because they understood that we were two creative power force that could work together and make something fantastic. And that's why I'm so proud of that achievement. Yeah, in the book, there's more detail, more granular detail about that process. So if you're interested in Cirque, if you're interested in the Beatles, if you're interested in Danielle, I urge you to check out his book. So I want to ask a question. Actually, two people have asked pretty much the same question. and Marta on YouTube, and Hector, who's in Guatemala.

23:58And it's really how do you filter ideas? What is the process, the creative process, to pick a show idea, to decide the theme of the next show or shows that you're considering? Yeah, we have a very specific creative process. It starts with three people. It starts with the director of the show, the creative director, and the production director. This episode is brought to you by Credit Karma. When it comes to your money, Credit Karma keeps you ahead of the game. You can count on Credit Karma to keep up with your financial needs as they evolve, helping you monitor your progress and giving you personalized recommendations so you can make strides towards your goals.

24:42Make sure you're on the right track, no matter where you are on your financial journey. Intuit Credit Karma. Karma you can count on. Download today. Trying to be a bit more mindful of things you buy? For you and your family? Well, when it comes to laundry, choose All Free Clear. 100 % free from dyes and perfumes. All Free Clear uses only essential ingredients that tackle tough stains and odors. And it's gentle on the skin. It's the powerful clean you can feel good about. So go on, pick up a bottle of All Free Clear for your next laundry day. and we give them a general mandate about what we are looking for in term of the new show the three of them come to us and present to us a first synopsis of what the show should be and then when we agree to the general concept of the new show then we will add to that three person's team, probably 17 more, like costume designer, music designer, set designer, 20 people all together, working together to define the exact content of the show.

25:58One thing that is very, very important in that process is we have regular checkpoint to make sure that the mandate we give them, you know, at the beginning of the process is respected all along. And they're not losing themselves with other directions than the one we're hoping for. It's an organic process. It takes between 18 to 24 months to come to fruition from the day you start to the day of the opening. And we're very respectful of time because it takes time to produce a good show as it takes time to develop a new product, a new service. And that's our process. So here's a question from Marta.

26:46I don't know if it's the same Marta, but Marta from Canada. So, and I'm going to adapt it a little bit. So, you know, when Cirque du Soleil, was first sort of out there, it was so different from anything we'd seen. And it was amazing. But her question is, is it harder now to impress people since you've already sort of stretched the envelope so much? Do they want more and more? Is it harder to impress them now? It is. It is because the expectations are much higher. That's why we have a huge challenge to remain relevant. And the way to do that is by investing a lot in research and development. And that's what we do.

27:28We work in collaboration with a lot of universities around the world. We work with big companies such as Samsung and Microsoft and others. We are in the lookout all the time, not only for new ideas, but for new technologies. Human performance will remain the core of what we do, But we will expand in new digital platform. We will expand on new technologies that are going to enhance the human performance. But it's an ongoing challenge. And you cannot become pleasant and think that the formula you have right now will last forever because it won't. So you have to reinvent yourself all the time. And that's our biggest challenge.

28:15Yes. So Richard in Italy has a question that really talks about or asks about what you just said about new digital platforms. The question is, do you have any plans to perform in the metaverse? Yeah, it's a world, obviously. It's a universe that we are definitely exploring as we're going through right now. One thing I want to be clear, we will remain a live entertainment organization. because that's what we are great at doing. But on the other end, through the crisis, we have developed a platform called Cirque Connect that has allowed us to keep our brand alive by showing different content on Cirque Connect.

29:03So now we're going to go through Metaverse and other technologies, other type of platforms that are available to us. And then we will have to define what kind of artistic content we're going to bring there to remain very, very relevant to that new universe of technology. And yes, that's something we are definitely going to explore. All right, we will watch this space. By the way, I love the fact that we're getting questions from quite literally all over the world. And here's one from Finland, from Diri. And the question is, ultimately, how do you measure success? Yes. We first and foremost, we have the, you know, NPS, which is the net promoter scores.