Cisco CEO Chuck Robbins on Retaining Employees Engaged Right Now

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1:07Hi, and welcome to HBR Now, the Harvard Business Review show where we talk about current developments and how they affect the world of business. I'm Adi Ignatius, Editor-in-Chief of Harvard Business Review, and I'm joined by my co-host, Octavia Gordima, who is the career coach and founder at 2010 Agency, and Josh Macht, who who heads product and innovation at Harvard Business Review. Our special guest in a moment we'll bring in is Chuck Robbins, who is the CEO and chairman of Cisco Systems, the big networking company that for the past two years has finished number one in Fortune's list of the world's best workplaces.

1:43We'll be talking about how business can get on track amid all of the challenges that 2020 has thrown our way. We invite you, if you're watching, to send in questions to Chuck in the comments box. We'll try to get to those later. But first, let's hear now from our sponsor, our friends at Extension. Change is all around us. Shaped by technology and human ingenuity. We can make it work for you and your business.

2:14Okay, so before we start, I want to talk a little bit about vaccines. We had more positive news yesterday, Moderna reported a 94.5 % efficacy rate in its tests. That follows Pfizer's similarly good results last week. So real progress is being made. It was nice to see that the heads of both companies, Albert Borla of Pfizer and Nubar Afeyan of Moderna, had been guests on HBR Now. So whereas they used to talk about the curse of Sports Illustrated, that the magazine puts you on the cover and your fortunes would suddenly plummet, maybe possibly we can talk about the blessing of appearing on HBR Now.

2:54Something to think about. We also interviewed Dr. Anthony Fauci, who has somehow managed to keep his job despite repeated threats to fire him. But anyway, on the vaccine, despite the good news, there are a lot of questions and challenges still ahead. And Octavia, I'd be interested in your perspective on where we are. Yeah, I think these breakthroughs are incredible. It's just such inspiring news to hear, especially as we head into the holidays and especially as we're hitting what's like a third surge here in the United States. but this will be the biggest vaccination effort in U.S. history. Just the administration alone for it is monumental.

3:33So I'm just really hoping we can be patient with the next steps because, you know, what the scientists are doing is incredible, but there's a long way still to go. What do you think, Josh? Well, I mean, I'm excited about it, but aren't you guys also in, I don't know about you guys, but for me, I'm in the throes of trying to figure out the holidays and there ain't no vaccine in time for the holidays. I mean, and navigating family and so many, you know, it's just I find that that's like the latest thing. Is that not stressful for you guys? Yeah, I was listening to a woman, you know, some sort of epidemiologist or something on the radio yesterday who said, look, you know, what we should tell people is just say no.

4:14Don't do it. Don't see your family for Thanksgiving, say. But she conceded that, but that doesn't work. We know people are going to do it, so we have to talk about how to mitigate the risk. And yeah, we're dealing with that right now, our family. I mean, we would love to get together next week. And if everybody gets tested beforehand, is that enough? I mean, I don't know. Nobody has the answer. And I just think we're close on a vaccine. We're getting there. But it's this period where there's a lot of risk. And it just seems like people can't let their guards in. Yeah. I think you're right. I think you're right.

4:49It's about being patient and maybe just being thankful for how far we've come and if we're still healthy at this moment and maybe fingers.

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5:48required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus cost this time next year we'll be in a different place yeah that's a nice message i like that all right we'll go with that um all right so let me now formally introduce our guest as i said it's the chairman and ceo of cisco systems chuck robbins born in georgia the grandson of a rural preacher he's been at cisco for more than 20 years and ceo for the past five he's an outspoken proponent proponent of stakeholder capitalism and has said that executives like himself can and must contribute to their communities for social good. So, Chuck, welcome.

6:23Well, it's great to be here, Adi. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we appreciate you making the time. So let's jump in at a high level. You know, this year has been a challenge, COVID, social unrest, a bonkers U.S. election. What is it going to take for American business to get back on track? Well, first, I just wanted to say that I'm hopeful that much like the vaccine CEOs, that there's something good coming for me after participating in your podcast today. So it's almost guaranteed. It feels that way. It feels that way. I really I really hope that's the case. So, look, I think that you guys are just talking about it.

7:00I think the vaccines are clearly going to be a big part of it. But I think testing is is also a huge part as well as therapeutics. therapeutics. And, you know, I could see a future where if you can get this high efficacy, 15 minute kind of testing, you could even get back to concerts and sporting events and those kinds of things. And so I think that most companies right now believe that the ends in sight, they don't know exactly when it is. And I think that most of them have said, look, if we're able to, it's not a time where we can sit on our hands, we have to begin to invest and continue to run our business.

7:33And that's, that's what we're seeing happening right now. So, all right. So when the dust settles, we will have a new administration in place. So, you know, from your perspective, what does the Biden administration need to do to shore up business confidence, you know, in a way that's consistent with its own mission and ideals? Well, I think that, you know, first of all, I think just having the election behind us is super important. We have, you know, the markets hate uncertainty, although this year we've had a lot of uncertainty and the markets have seemed to be okay. But I think when you think about the Biden administration, a lot of the things, I think we're going to need stimulus to get to the vaccine.

8:09I think that's well documented. Everyone talks about it. I hope that they can get that done. We clearly need an infrastructure bill in the country. And I think in keeping with that, we need to be thinking about digital infrastructure because much like every country, the pandemic has taught us that having technology in our infrastructure and having a robust, intelligent infrastructure is key. I think that's very important. I think that if we do end up with the Republican Senate, then we probably don't have to worry too much about a reversal of the tax reform, which I think will be good for business.

8:43And then you've got broadband that is clearly part of the Biden administration's plan, not to mention continued focus on spectrum and 5G build out, et cetera. So I think all of those things are part of how they're thinking about what they need to do. And we look forward to working with them in whatever way makes sense to try to help them be successful because the country needs it. Let me ask you about 5G. We'll talk later more about the workplace of the future, but 5G is key to Cisco's future plans. I guess I'd love to have a sense from you, how will 5G change my life? How will it change our lives as consumers, as employees?

9:27What's the promise in your mind? Well, if you just think back just over a decade ago when the smartphone came out and the iPhone came out, 4G came out, we didn't know how it was going to change our life when it first came out or when the technologies were first introduced. And I think to some extent, we don't know yet. But just think about what's happened in the last decade since the advent of that phone and how everything has changed about how we communicate, how we operate. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more.

10:04Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

10:38Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. And what we do as humans, some good, some bad, probably. But what 5G really is, is it's an incredibly high performance, low latency. And low latency is a really important part of this, which means we could run this video connection over and the communication back and forth between us would be very low latency so that it would actually be effective. In a perfect world, we figure out how to have 5G deliver high-speed broadband into rural areas, areas where those people don't have access to high-speed connectivity.

11:24Because if we think about one of the fundamental needs in this country right now is to really create an inclusive future for everybody. And I think that getting connectivity there, being able to deliver education, deliver health care, deliver other services, I think is one of the key things that we need to enable. So that's another possible benefit of it. But it will be revolutionary. And I think it's going to be great to just watch the innovation that occurs as we get this built out. So if you just tuned in, this is HBR Now. Our guest is Chuck Robbins, the CEO of Cisco. If you have a question for him, please put it into the comments box.

12:03Chuck, you're a CEO who talks a lot about responsibility to stakeholders beyond just shareholders. You talk about long-term thinking. But then there you are every quarter giving quarterly guidance and subject to the whims of an investor base that can sometimes have a pretty short-term perspective. How do you balance that? And do you wish the system worked differently? Well, it is complicated, that is for sure. But I think that, look, we're in these jobs and they're complicated jobs and we have to figure that out. I do think that they're not disconnected. I think there are times when you have to focus on one stakeholder perhaps more than the others and it's going to wane.

12:46It's rare that you're giving equal attention to all at any given time. If you're I've told the people on our side of our company, we have we have employees who have incredible hearts and passion for giving back in their communities. And and as do I and as does our leadership team. And what I've told them is in order to do the thing you love, which is giving back and contributing to society, we have to run a great business because we're not running a great business. It makes it more difficult to do that. So I think they're all connected. And our desire to be active in our communities is it's more difficult if our business is not performing well.

13:19So I think they're all interconnected, and you can find a way to actually communicate to each of the stakeholders why a focus on the other stakeholders is good for all of them. And I think that's pretty clear to most people at this point. And so it's complicated, but it's not impossible. Yep. So not to get hung up on share price, but your share price is solidly up since you announced earnings last week. But I think it's actually down for the year, even though, you know, your technology, WebEx, is helping to drive the work from home economy. You know, Zoom has taken some of that market share. So I guess my question is, would you do anything differently competitively if you could reset back to, let's say, March of this year?

14:00Well, if I had known we were going to enter a pandemic. You know, look, I think that the great news is the market expanded for all of us. So that is that's good news. We've learned as a society that we can, while we may not want to, we can actually have some level of productivity over this technology. And I think that as I look at what we do, you know, the focus for us is around enterprise grade security privacy, because organizations, there's one thing to be having a casual, you know, cocktail discussion with family members and friends. There's another to be operating your entire business over a platform.

14:41Where you're sharing intellectual property, you're talking about new products, new capabilities, new services, competitive differentiation. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

15:14Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. And so the need for it to be secure and ensure the privacy of those conversations is super important.

15:51And that's what we focused on. We built it that way from the ground up. And when you look around the world, we have governments all around the world that are actually using WebEx to legislate right now. And we actually formalized a product called WebEx Legislate. So I think that, look, this has been a year where we need everybody's platforms to work because the world needs them to work. And I think over the next few years, some of these more important issues will become more critical to the buyers. Full disclosure, Harvard Business Review, we're a WebEx company. I didn't know that. I'm glad to hear it.

16:26So I want to bring back Josh and Octavia, though, to ask some questions as well. So, Chuck, I'm curious, with so much equipment and buildings all over the world, commercial real estate all over the world, what's your or Cisco's take on what's going to happen with commercial real estate going forward? I mean, are we, you know, I mean, so many companies, we now are in some distributed world. So what's the outlook? it's going to be there. Every building is going to be empty forever, Josh. You know, it's, it's funny. We go through these waves of it with any, with any issue almost. It's like we go through these waves of extremities, and then we come back to sort of the middle.

17:07And it's so I think, you know, if you go back six months ago, there was a lot of discussion around whether anybody would go back. Cause this is great. We're all productive. We're working from home. It's fantastic. And then all of a sudden mental health stress, you know, began to creep in and people started getting exhausted and people were working long hours. And then you started hearing people talk about, I can't wait to get back to the office. And so I think the reality is we're going to end up in a hybrid world. And I mean, everybody's sort of landing there where many of our employees will work from home two or three days a week, be in the office two or three days a week.

17:38And what we have to figure out is what does that office configuration look like in the new world? Do I, do I need to over the longterm, Do I need to preserve for social distancing? Are employees going to be open to shared spaces like we had moved to over the last five to 10 years? Or are they going to want their own space because they're worried about the next pandemic? And so I think it's a little bit unknown. But I don't believe that based on the discussions I have with my peers, that most companies are going to move to complete work from home. I think you're hearing some of that now. But what I do hear is that the small offices, the small branch offices, to the extent that you can get rid of them or move into shared space more cost effectively, that's something that most of our customers are talking about.

18:30But in general, I think we're going to go back to a hybrid environment, and I think commercial real estate is going to be just fine. You talked about 5G earlier with Audie, and I'm curious on the social media side, which so much of your equipment enables. How do you look at the downsides that we're dealing with and what remedies either government or government and business should be bringing together? There's a lot of good, too, but clearly there's a lot of downsides. And I'm curious how you think about it and Cisco's role in all that. Well, we don't have a huge role other than providing underlying infrastructure to support it.

19:13But I do think that many of the CEOs of these companies have stated that they do believe that there's regulation needed. If you look at technology in general, I think that what we do and what all of these companies do, all tech companies do, is we have created the digital backbone for the future and for the economy. And so much like we regulate energy, we regulate financial systems, I think there has to be some level of regulation. Now, what I feel really badly for the regulators because technology is moving so fast. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

19:50It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

20:30Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. It's so complex. It's so hard to understand. The ability to actually come together and actually regulate it is very difficult. And so that's the challenge that I think we have to figure out together is how could we work together to identify the right regulation across not only the social platforms, but data privacy. I'm hopeful that on a global basis that post-election we come together and we figure out how can we drive data security standards and data privacy standards and cross-border data flow standards on a global basis so that we don't get into this fragmented world where I think we lose a lot of the benefit of the technology that's been built.

21:21I'd like to pick up on that thread, Chuck. And you referenced Cisco's emphasis on security. Yesterday, Twitter announced the hire of a famed hacker as their new head of security. And I was curious, what are some of the cybersecurity threats that keep CEOs up at night right now? And what are some of the approaches that Cisco and CEOs are taking to keep us safe? You know, I'd say that the good news is if you go back a decade, most CEOs didn't want to have the cybersecurity discussion because that actually created compelled liability on their part. Now, I think we've come full circle and it's a boardroom topic at every board meeting.

22:01So there are threats everywhere. The threat surface is just increasing every day. it's getting much more complicated because enterprises used to be sort of fixed physical things and you would protect the outskirts, the perimeter, and that isn't the case anymore. Now we have mobile workers and particularly now we have people working from home, working from coffee shops, maybe not coffee shops so much today, but they will be working from airports, et cetera. And we're continuing to connect more and more devices and the internet of things. And so it's actually expanding the threat surface and making it much more difficult for companies to actually protect.

22:39So what companies have come to grips with is that they are going to have infiltration. It's going to happen. And so the old plan used to be, how do I defend myself and build a perimeter? The new plan is, how do I defend myself, but then how do I identify when they get in and how do I remediate quickly? And it's really refreshing to see because there's a complete comprehensive plan now for how to deal with these threats and how to deal with these attacks that's more based on reality of what's really going on in the marketplace. I would say right now, what we see happening, ransomware is just everywhere.

23:18And ironically, these hackers have begun to go to like small payments because they know people are more likely to pay. It's like if I get in and I've got you held hostage and I ask you for$5 ,000, are you going to take a moral stand? Are you going to pay me five grand so you can get your business back up and running? And so we see a lot of ransomware right now and obviously other threats as well. Great. Thank you. And I'd love to segue now to some of the questions that we have from our audience. So starting with Nancy Diaz from Los Angeles, she's asked, what is Cisco doing to help address the tech divide?

23:57Yeah, it's we actually last year, my team and I worked on redefining the purpose of our corporation for years and years and years. We had a purpose that basically said we want to change the way the world lives, works, learns and plays. And that was that was our purpose for years. And we changed it, ironically, before 2020 to powering an inclusive future for all. And as we think about what our technology does is it fundamentally connects people and things together and enables communication. And we do a lot more than that, but that's what the core sort of traditional part of our business. And when you when you contemplate connecting people in rural areas or in villages and emerging countries, you can.

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