Defining and Adapting Your Leadership Style | HBR IdeaCast | Podcast

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1:06Suzanne Peterson:Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Business Review. I'm Kurt Nikesh.

1:18Suzanne Peterson:there's a roadblock many people run into at work they get the feedback that they're not ready for a promotion or a new project and when they ask why no one puts a finger on it they're missing a certain something something intangible which to be honest is not very helpful but it's common that when it comes to leadership to identify leaders, that it's a bit squishy. For too many superiors, leadership is a vibe that someone gives off, and some people show it much better than others. Our guest today has some advice for this situation. How to know your own leadership style, how to understand how others see it or don't, and then how to change your behavior so that you can break through to the next level.

2:00Suzanne Peterson:Suzanne Peterson is an associate professor of leadership at the Thunderbird School of Global Management at Arizona State University. She's also a partner at the consultancy CRA, and she's the co-author with Robin Abramson and R.K. Stuttman of the HBR article, How to Develop Your Leadership Style, Concrete Advice for a Squishy Challenge. Suzanne, thanks for coming on the show. Thanks so much for having me, Kurt. Happy to be here. Does that situation I just described sound familiar? year. It absolutely does. And, you know, it truly is a squishy challenge. And I have to tell you, as much as this applies to people at work, what we find is this is relevant to anybody.

2:43I mean, whether you are trying to be more collaborative with a team, whether you want to impress that new father-in-law, whether you're trying to influence your spouse, be more authoritative with your kids, be a trusted friend, style matters. And it tends to be something that we find people are constantly trying to navigate, but it isn't always at the level of awareness of what am I doing or not doing that really makes a difference in how I'm perceived.

3:08Suzanne Peterson:It sounds like it's not only your own awareness, but also the awareness of managers above you as part of the problem. It absolutely is. And all too often when we're talking to managers of people we coach and we simply say, what's the biggest challenge here? Usually we'll hear something like, Like, you know, they're just not really ready yet to sit at the table. They just don't quite have the gravitas. They're not engaging enough. They're not charismatic enough. They're not dynamic. Or it can be another version of, you know, they're a little off-putting. They haven't really figured out how to manage the relationships.

3:42They're not politically savvy. There's something that comes up. But when it comes to actually delivering, say, a performance review, they're not very good at actually saying, let me tell you what it would look like for you to be more influential.

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4:52Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Or for you to disagree a little differently than you do. They simply give these large general buckets that leave people feeling a little bit confused in terms of, I understand what you mean, but I don't know what to do on Monday. And then the real problem is, is people, when they're given this feedback of you need to be more confident or you need to be more assertive, they take that as being personality. And so it's very difficult to say, you know, maybe I can't change that. Maybe I'm not confident. Maybe I'm not assertive. Maybe I am a little too direct.

5:26Whatever feedback I'm getting, we read it as quite attributional. You know, style and personality are not the same. Personality is much more who you are, largely unchangeable. And style, on the other hand, is not personality. It's a set of behaviors. It's a set of habits. It's what you do. So the quickest thing we come to when we talk to a manager or somebody that we're coaching and we say, you know, people really find you arrogant. Well, frankly, we don't care so much whether the person is or isn't arrogant by personality. Instead, what we're looking at is, well, what are the behaviors that equal arrogance?

6:01Suzanne Peterson:So when the managers say, you know, you're putting off these attributions and they say not confident, what are the behaviors that are leading to the manager or supervisor having that opinion or giving that attribution? Like, what are they seeing? Yeah, the biggest ones usually we will hear when we get indicators is that people will fall into one of two buckets. They either are giving off what we call the power behaviors or they're giving off what we call the attractive behaviors. Now, neither one is good or bad. The idea is the power behaviors in the positive is when you get these attributions of, you know, dynamic, charismatic, confident, commanding, right?

6:44You know, an expert, articulate, easy to listen to, influential. but on the downside, that power style sometimes is intimidating, aggressive, off-putting, right? Cold, not relational. Sometimes when someone's in a meeting, they say, wow, that person's very abrasive. What we'll find is they'll say, well, I'm just direct. But actually, it's really that they, not that they were direct or had a comment or that disagreed, but they disagreed in a very disagreeable way. They interrupted the person, maybe not once, but two or three times. Two, they pretty much said, you're wrong and I'm right. That's what made them abrasive, not the fact that they disagreed.

7:25But on this whole other side of the spectrum is these attractive markers as well, which those attributions are passive, quiet, deferential, nice, easy to talk to, great mentor, great teammate, collaborator, all good stuff. But on the downside, sometimes it was all the things around weak, too passive, too deferential, not really a leader, doesn't have gravitas, doesn't get listened to. Anticipate comfort on the court and after the match in Lululemon tennis gear. Breathable fabrics keep air flowing through long rallies. Dynamic stretch lets you go all out on every sprint, split step and return. And after the final point lands, lightweight layers mean your day isn't done.

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8:54Suzanne Peterson:And where do people, most people who are at that juncture, where they become technically competent or good at their jobs, and they are looking to advance and gain more leadership and influence in their organizations, where do their styles typically hold them back? Is it when people tend to have a more attractive, approachable, likable style? Or is that just a nature of where they are in their careers? And it's difficult to get a more powerful style or the other way around? Like, what's the common pathway here? Yeah, I think it's a great question. And certainly, context matters, culture matters, the industry matters in terms of what's more perpetuated as a style that works.

9:34You know, what works in the finance industry might not work in the tech industry or the fashion industry. But to your point, what we find, if I can tell you which one's easier, we clearly find that it is a little bit easier to coach people to go from a powerful style to an attractive style. So easier to get somebody who might be a little too abrasive, too difficult to get along with, too dominant, whatever the attribution is, easier to give them tools to lean more attractive than it is to give people who naturally lean a little bit more attractive to get them to move up to power. Certainly not impossible.

10:13We do it all the time with people, but that's a little harder. But I think to answer your question more directly, probably when we see somebody get a little bit stuck in their career, it's more often the lean attractive. Yeah.

10:27Suzanne Peterson:And then the reaction for a lot of people is to try to take charge or take ownership of a project and they think that leadership is authority. And as they adopt kind of a more powerful stance, they often get pushback for that. That often works against them. Yeah. And it's a classic over-rotation. Style is very minor. Tweaks can make big differences. So usually when we do, and we have so many clients that really want to listen and want to take the advice. And what they'll do is if we tell, and this is an example recently, I'm working with someone who needs to lean a little bit more powerfully to get listened to.

11:07So, and I go to him and I say, here's, you know, two or three things you can do. Well, he, instead of doing two or three things, does five or six of them, right? So now he's, you know, starting the conversation. He's interrupting during the conversation. He's raising his hand on their video conference every five seconds.

11:23Suzanne Peterson:Sitting at the head of the table. Yeah. You know, making intense eye contact. He understood the behaviors and said, I get it. I need to make a few tweaks and changes. But we're always backing off saying, you know what, not that much. Really, one or two would have been fine. It's just a slight. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state.

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12:54Stay within your range. And it's all very authentic.

12:57Suzanne Peterson:Yeah, I was going to say this feels like for a lot of people, it feels like they've already set a precedent at their job and they're known in a certain way. And that to change might feel foreign at some point, right? Or inauthentic, like you're not really being yourself or at least the work self that you've created, you know, in the culture of your organization and in your experience there? We're all changing our style all the time. Most of us understand that, you know, how you behave at a happy hour is a little different than a board meeting, right? That there's a natural flex without becoming a different person.

13:34But the example I like to use is, imagine you're on an airplane. Remember when we all used to do that a little more? You'd go on an airplane and let's say you were trying to put your bag in the overhead compartment and it's all full. It's full. You were too late on the plane. You don't know where you're going to put your bag. You don't really want to check it. And you notice that the person sitting in the rows with you, they just put some things up there, like a really small purse or bag. There's their food up there, a hat, right? What would you do naturally? Are you the type that's going to move people's stuff around and put your bag up there?

14:08Are you going to ask people, would you mind putting that under the seat so I could put my bag up there? Or are you a person naturally who's going to say, I'm just, I wouldn't interrupt people and tell them to move their things. I would never touch other people's things. I'll ask the flight attendant to help or I'll just check my bag and deal with it. No right or wrong here. We have kind of a natural place. But let's assume that that person whose stuff was in the overhead that had just the food and the bag and the small hat or whatever was a 17-year-old with headphones sitting there. Would you be more apt to go to that 17-year-old?

14:42And most people, even if they originally said without context that I wouldn't move people's things, Say, well, maybe if it was a 17-year-old, I would. Okay, well, what if instead it happened to be your CEO? Are you still going to go to the CEO and say, hey, do you mind moving your hat? Most people will go, probably not. If I'm going to sit next to my CEO on the ride, probably I don't want the first conversation to be me moving his stuff around or her stuff around. So the point is, it's based on resources. When we feel resourceful, we behave more powerfully. So we're changing it all the time. I want you to think more specifically in every situation you go into.

15:22How do you want to be seen?

15:25Suzanne Peterson:It sounds like this is a process, right? It's not really sort of changing your style overnight, but it's trying some things on, seeing how they perform and really trying to work towards something rather than... Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade, unlocking the power of Thinkorswim, the award-winning trading platforms loaded with features that let you dive deeper into the market. Visualize your trades in a new light on Thinkorswim Desktop with robust charting and analysis tools, all while you uncover new opportunities with up-to-the-minute market news and insights. Thinkorswim is available on desktop, web, and mobile to meet you where you are.

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16:41Suzanne Peterson:What do you tell people about this journey? What should they expect? Usually what we tell people, first of all, is make small changes. So don't try and do too much. Sometimes one, two of these markers, as we look through the list that's even in the article, picking one or two things is plenty for you to start to change perceptions. And two, we tell people, don't get so wrapped up in how you feel. Focus more on the behavior. Sometimes, frankly, we're going to go into situations and say, I do not feel confident. But the question is, I really don't want people to know that. So what can I do that shows confidence that has me behave more confidently?

17:22And the idea is those emotions catch up with the behavior. You know, when I give a presentation, for example, there's no way 100 % of the time you're going to feel confident. But if I walk out there looking down, my shoulders down, I can't look the audience. I start out and say, so glad to be here, but I, uh, and thank you. And I sound tentative. I've already maybe lost that audience. So if I think, let's see, I need to go out there. I need really good posture. I need to look the audience in the eye. It doesn't mean it's always easy, but I go out there and I need a strong two minute start where I'm able to say, here's three or four things I'm going to talked to you about today that are going to fundamentally change your leadership, for example, now I have the audience's attention, which then begins to give me some confidence, for example.

18:11And now I say, actually, I'm okay. Gosh, any of us that are parents out there, anybody who is, we do this with our kids. You know, sometimes we can't be the authoritarian and the, you know, an authoritative style every time, right? Eventually it's like, yeah, you're, you're a dictator. But we also can't, we feel we can't be, you know, open and diplomatic and whatever you want, be your best friend. But sometimes saying, gosh, my child's going through something tough. How do I want to be perceived today? I want to be perceived as a great listener. And the next day, I need to be perceived as the authority that's going to say that behavior is not okay.

18:48So it changes if you flex it. If not, we get attributions as parents too. You're this. And people that flex more don't get those same attributions. They're more strategic with their style.

19:01Suzanne Peterson:What about for women or people of color? How do they need to think about this differently? The research on the double bind for women, for instance, is really clear, right? That they have to show warmth and competence. So it feels like flex, the flex you're talking about is already built into that double bind that they have. How does this thinking change if you're approaching this problem as a woman or as a person of color? Yeah, it's a big issue when we get asked a lot. You know, first of all, style does apply to everybody in many cases. I mean, we work with just experience a membership that backs your business journey with American Express Business Platinum.

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21:03They are here to help. As many men on their style as women or people of color. But make no mistake, it can be a little tougher in those areas. Because of the fact, if we just take women, for example, there is a natural trade-off. The research is clear that the more successful that women become, their likability factor often goes down. Somehow we aren't rooting for the successful woman. The comments are, who does she think she is? Oh, she's so right. Or gosh, she's abrasive. She's difficult. Wouldn't want to be with her in the meeting. And there's a level of it. It's harder for women in many cases to shoot to that right, that middle ground.

21:42so we don't shy away from it. We're not going to fix all biases and problems, but we are telling women to be careful a little bit more so just so that they can still be absolutely who they are, but we want them to bring their strength as a leader, not have it be framed as, oh, you know, that woman leader. We want it to just be as a leader, so what we might say is, you know, absolutely. You need to disagree. You need to be able to negotiate hard for your promotions or or compensation, we'd never tell them to stand down. But we might say even more important that you disagree a certain way. Even more important that you really show and engage in the warmth side of things so that when you go powerful, you show balance.

22:25Or if it's the opposite side, you're very warm, you're very engaging, people love being around you. But interesting how you're never invited to those two and three person meetings on the management team. They tend to happen without you? How do you step into that without calling them out and be considered abrasive? But how do you naturally, you know, make sure you're not excluded? So we will say the problem's the same for everybody, but that certainly it's highlighted a little bit more when women or people of color don't tend to display the same traits, or really my favorite one, and this one most of us can relate to, it's how a woman will be labeled emotional.