Facing Your Fear of Conflict

22:03Amy Gallo:This person will be mad at me. This is not how we handle things at this organization. I'm really not interested in a fight. I don't have the time and energy for this, right? All the reasons, all the risks. Now, I also then try to think, okay, but what are the risks of me not saying something, of me not addressing this conflict, of me letting it go? Because we often forget to do that sort of second risk assessment and i think that's really important in deciding so you know you're one of the risks might be this is this would be counter-cultural for me to bring this up right but one of the risks of not saying it might be well this product could fail unless i actually make sure we we address this issue now i i think that that risk assessment can be hard to do, but you have to do both sides.

22:52And I think that you, you know, want to be sure that you're also, how do I want to say this?

23:01Amy Gallo:You know, you want to also be sure that you're not using the culture as an excuse. And meaning, we often think that, well, this is not how we do things here. Well, but maybe you could do that. And that would be okay, right? Maybe it would be okay for you take a risk. You know, there's a really important concept that a lot of experts are talking about these days and actually know one of our HBR authors is working on a book about this, about microcultures. So maybe you work in a culture that doesn't encourage conflict and actually are good conflict or encourages bad conflict, unhealthy conflict, right?

23:39Amy Gallo:But could you create a microculture? Maybe it's just you and one other person. Maybe it's your immediate team. Maybe it's you and your direct reports, right? Can you create a culture in which the norms are different? And you might even say, you know, I know this is how we typically do things here, but in our group, let's do things differently. I love that. And I've actually said that a couple of times and it worked. Oh, good. So people are talking about bosses, right? And I'll be very honest, I make an effort to get along with my boss and I want to make my boss sure that I can handle conflict.

24:14But what if my boss and I don't agree? What if my boss doesn't listen on how I want to address the conflict? How do you deal with when your boss or someone who has power over you wants to handle the conflict differently than you do?

24:25Amy Gallo:Yeah. So the power dynamics are complicated. And again, I think that risk assessment I was talking about is very important. So you do want to very honestly assess the risks of speaking up because sometimes your boss might be a conflict avoider, or they might be someone who, you know, loses their temper when you bring up a disagreement. So you want to be realistic about what will be the damage to my reputation, to my access to opportunities, to our relationship, right? But you also want to think about the risk of not bringing that to the manager. Honey, what are you listening to? Mom! Your teen might not share everything with you, but teens share everything with each other.

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25:56Amy Gallo:Wayfair, every style, every home. And we know from research that one of the biggest complaints from managers is that they don't get feedback from the people that they manage. And that's not just feedback about their performance and leadership style, but that's feedback about projects, initiatives, strategy, right? It can, and most managers, and I won't say all, because I know lots of people watching probably have managers who genuinely do not want to be disagreed with, but I think most managers are open to hearing differences of opinion and actually crave that and don't get it enough. One of the keys to doing that though, is to make sure you do it in a way that still allows them the sense of authority.

26:38Amy Gallo:So you might start by saying, I know you're going to make the final call on this. I have a different perspective. Is it okay if I share it? And I definitely agree with you about many managers who actually want that feedback. I've asked for 360s even before, just give me the feedback. Yeah. You learn a lot. Do you find that people are willing to speak up to you? And I mean, I know you've been a manager in many different organizations. To be honest with you, I feel like I'm in a creative field where we encourage people to be open. And so I think that the bent just might be because of the field that I'm in where people feel a little bit more comfortable.

27:15But obviously, there's always some concern if there's a power dynamic there. But I'm thankful for the people in the past and currently that have given me feedback. And whether they realize it or not, they make me a better manager. So thank you to all of you. I want to get to another question from one of our viewers. So Sue from St. Louis said, what about challenges of conflict when we are virtual, right? Is resolution of the conflict more difficult to achieve when we are not face to face?

27:45Amy Gallo:Yeah. So researchers are of two minds on this. And I'm actually, I haven't seen any great studies, and I'm really hoping there'll be some that have come out about how conflict has changed in the last two plus years, two and a half years. I will say that what a lot of people are seeing is, well, there's two things. One is there is some upside, which is that we tend to be more efficient in virtual environments, meaning that there's not a lot of noise around the task. Sometimes we're just very task focused and that can help actually eliminate some of the relationship conflict or interpersonal conflict.

28:27Amy Gallo:However, at the same, and I think that's sort of just a very minor silver lining and is not always the case. More likely what we see is that this form of communication is ripe for misunderstanding, misinterpretation. Right. We also feel less human. You know, I'm being a little box on a flat screen doesn't actually make me feel like myself. And so we tend to have less empathy for others in these environments, which also empathy is such a big part of good conflict that it's we don't always convey that to the to the people who we're interacting with. We also just don't have the, you know, moment at the end of the meeting where we all laugh and smooth things over or we walk down the hall together and chat, you know.

29:13Amy Gallo:And so I think the other problem is that these, especially in remote environments, a lot of the conflicts fester and actually become unhealthy conflicts as opposed to good conflict or healthy conflict where you're addressing it directly, honestly, right away. Yeah. So another question we have from Brett in DC said, when fight or flight mode hits, what happens when the third F hits? Freeze. I've never heard of freeze, actually. Yeah. Fight, flight, or freeze. Yeah. I mean, and that freeze is hard because you've basically lost access to your prefrontal cortex. It's not a rational thinking moment.

29:54And honestly,

29:55Amy Gallo:fight, flight, and freeze, none of those are great when it comes to conflict. The goal is to really try to restore access to your best self or to that prefrontal cortex so that you can make rational decisions. And many of us go into fight or flight or freeze without even realizing it. And so one of the things you can do is to reflect on moments of conflict that you've had or stress that you've had and notice, okay, what are my triggers? What are my symptoms? I mentioned sweaty palms. For me, that's a sign like, oh, here I go. I'm going into fight or flight or freeze, which is called amygdala hijack as well because that's the part of the brain that sort of gets hijacked by the threat or the sense of stress.

30:41Amy Gallo:So the goal is to recognize when that's happening, taking the space you need to calm down. That might be a few deep breaths in the moment. That might be a, hey, you know what? can we talk about this tomorrow? That might be, you know what, I'm actually having a strong reaction to this. And I know this isn't going to be a productive conversation. I'll loop back with you when I'm when I'm ready to chat. Anything you can do to sort of give yourself the moment to calm down. Yeah, I'm taking deep breaths right now. Seriously. So Diane from Boston, she says, can you give some advice on when to respond and when not to respond when negative co-workers initiate, excuse me, when co-workers initiate negative feedback?

31:27Amy Gallo:Yeah. So one of the questions I always ask myself when I'm, when I get some negative or constructive feedback is like, am I in the right mind space to hear this right now? And, you know, those are simple questions like, Like, am I fed? Have I slept well? Are my core relationships pretty solid right now? And if the answer to those are no, then I might just take a breather. Right. And that might be, you know, a walk around the block that might be, OK, I need to go have lunch and then I'll come back to this. I do think that you really want to be in the right frame of mind to receive the negative feedback.

32:06Amy Gallo:And the question when you decide whether to respond or not, I think you should always respond in the moment, right? You're not going to just completely ghost them because they've given you negative feedback. That's not the message you want to send. Instead, you might say, huh, that's super. Thank you for being honest with me. It's, you know, you might say, that's hard for me to hear. I need some time to process it. Or you might just say, thank you. Let me process that and get back to you. I'm not sure yet how I feel about it. So, you know, it used to be much more, I didn't allow myself to say I needed to process.

32:41And so I certainly believe in giving people that opportunity to say they want to reflect on it and think about how they respond. So I love that, that giving people the opportunity to figure out their thoughts and use their voice at a later time.

32:55Amy Gallo:And just think about how many times you've gotten negative feedback. you've said something in response, either defended yourself or questioned its validity. And then later on, you're like, oh, actually, that is sort of true. You know, and so I think it's, it's, it is helpful to both give that person the time, especially if you're the one giving the feedback and say, hey, let's, I just wanted to share this, we can talk about it at a later time. But then to also remind yourself, like, I will feel differently about this in five minutes or an hour or next week. So why not give myself the time and space to figure out what I think is true and helpful about this and what I think isn't.

33:32Let's go to Pakistan where Asif, I hope I said your name right, asks, can you break down the biggest differences between good conflict and bad conflict? And I know we've discussed that a bit, but if you could just point to it, what's the biggest difference between good conflict and bad conflict?

33:49Amy Gallo:Yeah, there's a lot actually. And And that makes me, I have a teenage daughter who's doing a lot of compare and contrast in her English class, and it makes me want to do a compare and contrast column. Maybe I'll make that a homework assignment for myself after this. I do think one of the key differences is the intention that we go in with. So are we actually focused on solving a problem or are we focused on winning a fight? or in the worst case scenario, are we focused on making someone else wrong or look bad or feel bad? Right. So I think there's a lot about the difference in intention. I also think there's a difference in tone and the way we address it.

34:29Amy Gallo:So good conflict, we are using empathy skills, we're showing kindness, we're showing compassion, we're constantly trying to be self-aware about the way that we're interacting, the way we're showing up in the conversation. Bad conflict, on the other hand, sometimes feels destructive because we're disrespectful or short with someone. You know, I will say we aren't always our best selves in moments of conflict. So you can have good conflict where you actually do maybe lose your temper or say something you wish you could take back. It still can be good conflict if you get it back on track, which is totally allowed.

35:07I've said I'm sorry a couple of times. Yeah. Yeah. I do agree. I think it's good to be a little bit open, even if you do lose yourself in the moment.

35:19Amy Gallo:I'll just add, Nikki, one of the things I would say is that one of the most useful phrases you can use when you have handled a conflict in a way that you don't think is productive is to go back and say, I wish I handled that differently. People love to hear that after they've felt disrespected or harmed in some way. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay. So Raquel from Milwaukee says, how do I work with someone who fails to open their mind to other options and opinions? Oh man, this, this is hard. The, you know, there's a couple of things. One is you're not going to force them to, like I, I've often wished I could just like reach into someone's brain and like rewire them and be like, You are now an open-minded person.

36:07Amy Gallo:I think one of the things I try to remind myself is that's really to their detriment. And it's frustrating for me, absolutely. But ultimately, it's going to harm them and their career to not be open-minded. Some of the tricks I like to use in trying to get that person to just see a different perspective is to actually ask the question, either, if you were in my shoes, how would you see this? Or if you were, and name a third party, right? Maybe someone in a different department. How do you think other people in another department would see this, right? Just trying to encourage them to get out of the narrowness.

36:42Amy Gallo:The other thing, you know, if it's someone, for example, who's just like, this will never work, right? Like consummate pessimists, like this will never work. Rather than saying, no, I think it will, which will just polarize you, you might ask a question like, well, I hear your concerns. What would have to be true for this to work, right? So then rather than just sort of being like, nope, there's no other perspective. You're trying to engage them in a constructive conversation about what are their assumptions? What are their concerns? What are the risks that they're seeing? So that ultimately, they can break out of that tunnel vision that they might have.

37:19Well, we have a few more minutes. I want to get a couple questions in and then we'll talk about your book. But what types of behavior should I display if I'm the manager, I'm the leader, right? I want people, this is what you said recently and earlier in the conversation is that you want to lead by example. So what are some of the things I should do to show people how to resolve conflict or deal with conflict resolution?

37:41Amy Gallo:Yeah. You know, I've heard it said that managers, their whisper is heard as a yell. And I think that you have to really remember that people are watching you and how you respond. And that means displaying comfort with conflicts when it comes up. You know, first and foremost, setting the norm, telling your team, all the managers watching today, if you can do one thing, it is to go back to your team, your next team meeting, and just say, if I haven't mentioned it before, by the way, conflict is welcome here. We should be debating and dissenting ideas as long as we do it with compassion and kindness.

38:15Amy Gallo:So that's number one. But in the moment, I think it's really about trying to stay calm. Now, if you're turning red in the face because you're really uncomfortable with conflict and you're like, no, it's all good. No, it's all good. You know, you don't want that cognitive dissonance. You do need to align your physical response with what you're saying. But if you do start to feel uncomfortable, or you notice you're fidgeting, you might even say something like, you know what, I'm fidgeting because I'm not great with conflict, but this is an important conversation and we're going to stick with it.

38:44Amy Gallo:Right. Something that just shows this is, this is normal. This is expected. Right. And when someone raises something, a disagreement, and if it's like, especially if it's the first time someone has voiced that disagreement on the team, say thank you. Say, you know, I know it takes a lot to disagree, especially when the group is starting to coalesce an idea. So thank you for saying that. Let's talk about the pros and cons of these different options. Speaking of what to say, Isaac from Colorado said, what are your thoughts about the phrase, let's agree to disagree? So thank you, Isaac, for asking this question.

39:17Amy Gallo:So I think I actually agree in theory that it's okay to agree to disagree. However, in practice, I think people use that phrase to say, I'm done with this conversation. I don't want to have it anymore. Now, I don't think that's fair. I think you both have to agree that, okay, we're done debating this. I do believe, and I think this is a norm that I've seen many teams adapt that works really well, is disagree and then commit. So you may disagree on the strategy, where we're headed, voice that, let's hash it out. But once we've agreed or once the person in charge has made the decision that this is the direction we're going, then it's time for you to commit, even if you disagree.

39:59Amy Gallo:So I prefer let's disagree and commit rather than let's agree to disagree. Because again, I think it's a way to just sort of back out of the conversation without actually coming to a resolution that both parties feel good about. All right. You hear that, Isaac? Commit, commit. Let's talk about your book. I'm excited about this. So this is by HBR Press, full disclosure. You're the author of the new book, as we said in the beginning, Getting Along, How to Get Along, How to Work with Anyone, Even Difficult People. Question, are you a difficult person? Yes, I don't think I could have written this book if I wasn't.

40:35Amy Gallo:I mean, so there's actually, the book is centered around eight different archetypes of types of personalities we might encounter in work. And one is the know it all, which truthfully is the one I identify with most and was the most painful chapter to write because I was like, oh God, I'm telling people how to deal with me. But I do think that I think we all, and this is one of the major themes of the book, is we're all prone to these behaviors, whether it's passive aggression, pessimism, playing the victim, exhibiting bias, right? We all at some point in our career will probably exhibit those behaviors.

41:11Amy Gallo:And so the advice in the book is not just about how to actually work productively with people who do, but it's also trying to understand what motivates us to participate in those behaviors. I have to say, Nikki, my favorite, one of my friends texted me, the book came out last Tuesday, and one of my friends texted me on Wednesday and said, I'm already halfway through your book, and I'm realizing I have to give it to everyone on my team, because I'm basically every archetype in this book. Well, at least they're self-aware. Exactly. That's what I said. Points for self-awareness. That's right. Well, you know, I'm going to ask you about a theory I have.

41:47I believe every person is a difficult person to someone. What do you think about that?

41:51Amy Gallo:I absolutely agree. I mean, you know, one of the pieces of advice I often give people who are struggling with someone at work, as I say, find the person who actually enjoys working with them because there's someone there who does and find out what they what they find enjoyable or tolerable about about working with them. And I think the same thing goes. There's always someone who enjoys working with that person and there's always someone who finds you difficult. So, you know, I absolutely agree. And I it's we debated long and hard about whether that phrase difficult people should be on the cover because I hesitate to label people in that way, again, because we all are difficult at times.

42:30Amy Gallo:But really, ultimately, we decided that people who are looking for this advice would would have that phrase in their mind. And so hopefully we're getting the books and the book into the hands of the people who need it most. But I do caution against using labels and particularly dismissive labels that that put pigeonhole people or, you know, trigger your own confirmation bias. So if I think of you as passive aggressive, everything you do, I'm going to start seeing through that lens. So I think the labels are only useful in that they help us find the specific advice we need and the tactics we can try.

43:07Amy Gallo:But I don't like to, you know, use them as pejorative terms when talking about our coworkers. You know, we could go like another half hour easy on this conversation. You and I could talk all day. And this group with the comments and questions has been great. So great. I think you answered your own question. Is this universal? Absolutely. Absolutely. Universal topic. We have Amy Gallo, HBR editor, author of Getting Along. Get a copy of the book. I'm excited to read it. I'm going to be on a plane reading it on my way back to Atlanta. I'm so excited to have you, Amy. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, Nikki.

43:40This has been really great. Yeah, it has. So I want to thank everyone for joining us today and sharing your great, great questions. Wonderful conversation. You made the conversation. If you haven't already subscribed to our LinkedIn newsletter, Management Tip of the Week, we're going to drop a link in the comments and we'll announce our next LinkedIn Live in that newsletter. And I look forward to seeing you then. Bye.

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