How Do I Get Back on Track After My First Layoff? | S1E7 | New Here

0:01This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more.

0:38Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Hi, my name is Nydia and I'm based in Houston, Texas. And I recently just got laid off. So a few months ago, we asked our Instagram followers to send us their layoff stories. And this one caught my attention. It was like my world around me, the world that I knew, was shattered. It was really dark in the beginning, in the first couple weeks, a month or so, but it's getting brighter.

1:26We're told that layoffs aren't personal, that they're a business decision. But that doesn't make it any easier to recover and move on. We heard from a bunch of people about what they've been struggling with. It's now been seven months since I found out that I was going to be laid off. And I have to say I was very surprised by how painful and hard on my self-esteem it was. My first thought was like, oh my goodness, how am I going to provide for my kids? And what's the path forward? I think I'm still missing a lot of closure. Am I ever going to know why this happened?

2:08Welcome to New Here. Honest conversations and practical advice to help you play the game called work. I'm Eleni Mata. You can get laid off at any point in your career. And when it happens, it can feel like the rug has been pulled out from under you. But the good news is you're not alone. Today, we'll go through the stages of a layoff and learn how you can quickly bounce back with help from two guests. You heard Nydia Brian-Martinez at the very start of the show, and she is here to share more of her layoff story. She's an engineer in the first decade of her career. She had been working as a project manager at a startup in Houston.

2:49And Melanie Sally DeSomu is also here. She's an HR consultant. Full disclosure, she does consult with HBR sometimes. That's how I met her. And she's become someone I really trust for advice. She's laid people off, but she's also been laid off. Twice. We'll hear how they reframed their view of work after being laid off, and how they've recovered. Okay, let's get into it.

3:18So this is definitely a journey and we'll get to the recovery part later on. But first, could both of you take me back to the moment you got laid off for the first time? Melanie, you can go first. What happened? My first time being laid off, it was really interesting because I came to work that day. And when I arrived at work, I found out that there was an emergency meeting and it was an all hands on deck, but they had people going to two separate spaces. And the way it, and it happened as soon as everyone arrived at work at 8am, those of us who were being laid off were in one room and those that were not being laid off were in another room.

3:58And we were all hearing of a reorganization that was happening. It was passed down from corporate. And those of us who were being laid off, there were about 40 of us that were being laid off. And those of us who were being laid off, we were leaving that day. Wow. Wow. And Nidia, how did that? So please walk us through how that day went for you. Sure. Yeah. So it was a Friday and I woke up at like eight and I made my breakfast, paid my coffee and then I got a notification on my phone because I had like Slack and Google calendar on my phone that I had a meeting in like nine minutes and I was like this is weird like this meeting wasn't on my calendar before I logged on to the meeting and um HR was there HR president was there and then um our CEO came in like a little bit later so we're just like having small talk and then this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome you think you know a browser.

5:01But Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more.

5:34Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. He told me I got laid off and I was just so taken aback. I had no idea what to, how to feel or what to do. And I just remember looking in the camera because it was Zoom and I just remember being like, how do I, how do I look right now? And I looked at my face and I looked pissed off. I just looked so upset and I just remember being like because I it's almost like I didn't know how to process so I was like I wonder what's even coming across so it's almost like I had to like look in the mirror to even know how I was even feeling they asked me if I had any questions I really didn't because I didn't know really what to ask or what to do and 15 minutes later I was locked out and yeah I was like locked out by computer I was locked out of everything like my whole profile just got canceled and I just felt like like the world that I knew was crumbling around like just like was shattered and it's weird because I'm not a person that gets a lot of self-value from my career it was just really surprising that it kind of like shook me like that you didn't feel that validation coming from your career why did you think it hit you as hard as it did.

7:07Yeah. So thankfully I've had a lot of time to think about that and process that. I guess I think that, you know, my parents are immigrants. They came from Jamaica and they like built a really, you know, my grandma was like working in hotels and the maid and like really just sacrificed a lot to give her family a better life. And my mom is like that with me too. You You know, she doesn't let me forget her sacrifices and how much like she did for me. So I guess my stability and my security, how I feel about, I guess, my intelligence and what I bring to the table and things like that. And a lot of imposter syndrome that I felt, you know, through my career, it almost felt like being laid off as a validation to all those like negative thoughts.

7:54And it almost devalidated all the sacrifices that my family went through to get me to where I am right now. So, yeah, I think it was just a lot of what I knew as myself and what I knew was my world was just shaking a bit. Yeah. Did you feel that way too, Melanie? Actually, unlike Nydia, I did get a lot of validation from my career. I got a lot of positive reinforcement from my network, from my family, that I had a job that was, you know, seemed to be to other people an important job. So I actually felt crushed, like I had lost, like I as a person had lost some value. It was the highest salary I'd ever made before.

8:42I was relocated from Maryland to Pennsylvania for the job. And so to have all of that snatched out from under me, I had just given birth to, you know, I just came off of maternity leave and was coming back into the workforce. So my life was coming back to what I consider to be normal. Now, what is common, what was a common experience for me was that imposter syndrome, because then I felt like, okay, actually, I don't have the value that I thought I had, that I was drawing from my job. The second time I was laid off, I was laid off. It was a little bit more sensitive. I had six months before my job was actually going away.

9:24And also I realized that my personal value did not come from my job. So I didn't have the same feelings there. And I had time to get things lined up and get myself together. Whereas the first time around, it was like the rug was snatched out from under me. So I want to talk about money and the financial aspect of being laid off. Nidia, how was the financial implication for you after being?

10:11There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

10:48Laid off. So I think that's like, I would say that's like 70 % of what really shook my core. I was like, oh my God, my life. What's it going to be now? Like without, you know, I was, and that's what I feel like. I was used to living a certain lifestyle because I was having a certain salary. And just like you were saying, Melanie, like this is like the highest I ever gotten paid. so I was very comfortable and secure and I think like I said when that financial security went away it really left me feeling kind of confused and kind of alone also if that makes a little bit of sense I'm a saver by nature so luckily I didn't feel the pressure of having to find another financial job so quickly and I'm also kind of like a hustler.

11:39I always have two jobs. So like I pet sit on the side as well. So it's nice to know that I still had like a little bit of money coming in somewhere else. But yeah, I mean, it really made me look around at things and kind of made me really, I guess, dissect like how much money do I even really need to be comfortable and happy and secure? And I kind of realized that I was like selling my soul a little bit for this salary and like dealing and putting up with things and being like unhappy just because I was making like the most money I've ever made. And so it made me really look at that and be like, I don't want to do that again.

12:20Melanie, were you going to say something? Yeah, I was going to ask if Nydia, when you were laid off, if you ended up applying for unemployment and what that experience was like. So first, I don't have any I didn't have any experience with unemployment. Like I had no interaction, no relationship with it, didn't really know much about it. But then I know that during COVID, a lot of people got laid off, like lost their jobs and like people were applying for unemployment. So now I'm getting this rhetoric around people just kind of not wanting to work and living off of unemployment. And so, you know, getting laid off completely changed my relationship with unemployment and like how I used to view other people that are in similar situations.

13:01and getting unemployment. I even like remember going to my partner and being like, I don't want to apply for unemployment. He was like, you literally pay taxes for this. It was like, it's stupid for you not to apply for unemployment. And I had to like, kind of wrap my head around it. And I think it was one, just how I felt about it. And then two, almost kind of admitting defeat in a way. So it was kind of like, it was kind of hard to be like, yep, this is really happening. I do not have a salary and I need to get money from the government and it's okay. Absolutely. And I think a lot of times we have that paradigm that I don't want a handout, right?

13:46I mean, it's just kind of baked into us as professionals oftentimes, but it's not a handout. It is something that you have paid into for this very reason. And anyone who thinks that someone who's trying to live off of unemployment is that that's a good thing. It's a fraction of your salary. No, it's not enough. So in terms of money, like what, I mean, Nidia, you were talking about you were saving. What are money things that we should have prepared for if and when a layoff happens? So rule of thumb for me is to have three months worth of expenses saved. And when I say expenses, I mean your absolute necessities.

14:30Nydia said earlier, what do I need in order to be happy? Look at your expenses and say, what do I need? What are the absolute necessities that I need? I like to get my nails done, but I can do them at home and not get them done every month, but maybe get them done every three months. So I believe. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, But Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

15:04Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast.

15:39Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. That we should understand what are the necessities that I need. As Nidia said, to be happy, to survive, but also survive happy. We don't want to give up everything that is important to us. Yeah. So that's your rent, your mortgage, groceries. Car payment. Car payment, phone bill. There's a lot of necessities. Yes, there are. There's so many. How did that work? Is that how you approach it, Nidia? I probably, as most millennials, spend too much money eating out and things like that. So just figuring out. It's hard not to.

16:18Yeah, just figuring out like to cut that cut back then. And it's funny, I mean, like I know unpopular opinion, I like sparkling water. So it was also like, okay, do I need to spend$12 every time at the grocery store to get like six packs of sparkling water or three packs, you know, things like that. So it's like finding, I was trying to find ways to like be modest with my spending. And just in general, I try to be pretty modest, except for when it comes to eating out, obviously. And then just put everything else away to savings.

16:58So you heard how Melanie and Nydia handled the emotional and financial shock of being laid off. After the break, we'll talk about recovering and moving on. Plus, Melanie and Nidia will take your layoff questions. Be right back.

17:28so i have um some listener questions that i'd love to share with the both of you um one is from jasmine and she asks what should you do if you don't receive a severance package and have no other sources of income. That is hard. Unemployment? Absolutely. And I would even, there is no shame in going to apply for public assistance. There is no shame in that. I mean, again, that is a tax supported resource that's out there, just like unemployment. So if you're able to get unemployment, that is a huge help. And I would look at things like, are there food stamps available? There's the LIHEAP program that helps people pay to keep their utilities on, keep their source of heating on.

18:21I don't think there's enough support there to live on, but definitely to be a bridge until you get into a financial situation where you can actually sustain your family again. Do you think it's worth getting an employment lawyer to look over the severance package? I would say yes, just because I've heard some things. I guess I've heard that some of the people that got laid off when I got laid off, they actually did negotiate their severance package. I think that's something that is not well known, is that you can negotiate your severance package? Because I think most people think like, what leverage do I have here?

19:06Like, I don't have any leverage, but I think that there's more that you can leverage that people don't know. Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I know for a fact that when an employer is approached by an attorney, that there's a different level of, I won't say respect, but a different level of attention. And therefore, there's a lot more opportunity to negotiate that severance package. And also, there are times when a severance package may be set up with some loopholes in it, with some challenges in it. So I agree that having an employment.

20:02Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

20:36Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Attorney, take a look at it, is well worth it. I'm curious about this leverage, though, this leverage about severance and what kind of power you as an employee have. I didn't think you had any. You really don't have much, but if you come with an attorney, you do get a little bit more attention and a little bit more opportunity to make some changes to it. Okay, one more. Camilla writes, the situation has shattered my self-confidence in the past, and it feels like I will never recover from it. I feel like a failure and imposter syndrome takes over.

21:17I am impatient and pessimistic. It's really hard for me mentally and physically. Any advice on how to move from this feeling? Yeah, I mean, that's really hard. And I would have to say that I empathize with her. I feel like I felt the exact same way when I got laid off, like very similar feelings. I would just say, I mean, my advice would be like to be patient with yourself and to almost let yourself feel those feelings. Just because they're not positive butterfly feeling doesn't mean that there's not anything useful in them. You might find your path that gives you more self-worth, that gives you more confidence in those feelings.

22:02There's an opportunity to sit back and listen to them and learn from them and almost use them to see what they can teach you like for the future you know when I got laid off and I was feeling the same way really pessimistic I kind of looked back and I was like I haven't been happy in any of my careers like in any of my job choices and so I kind of used that time to explore what a career of like happiness would look like for me and I kind of I kind of said I you know what the Albert Einstein quote is in you know insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results So I was like, okay, I need to make a change.

22:40Like I need to make a change. If what I'm doing in the past, like hasn't been working for me, then I need to use this now and like do something different. So the layoff was, was a good like catalyst for me to really, really like think about my career choices and use it going forward. Did you have to talk about the layoff in your job interview at all? Yes, they did ask me why I got laid off. And I think, you know, I luckily have it easy. It's just for me, it was a reduction in workforce. But I know that it's a little bit harder for other people that maybe got laid off due to performance or due to other reasons to talk about that.

23:19Do you have any advice of like how to talk about the layoff in the next job interview, Melanie? Yeah, I think practicing with another person. This one interview really stands out with me where I interviewed a young lady who was laid off from her last job. And in the middle of the interview, she started crying. When I asked her about her last job, she just started crying and shaking. And so she had this emotional reaction. My question about that last job triggered something in her because she hadn't been, she hadn't moved on. So I think that practicing it with a person is very helpful, especially because you want your explanation of what happened to be very matter of fact.

24:04Just really explaining those pieces. If it was typically an organization should not lay you off for performance. However, if that does happen, it's recognizing if you feel like you contributed to being the person selected for layoff, then it's here's what happened. I didn't understand this or I didn't do this. But since then, I have learned A, B, C, and D. So that you don't end that question with, yeah, I was laid off because I didn't perform. It is, you know, my ad campaign. Honey, what are you listening to? Your teen might not share everything with you, but teens share everything with each other.

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25:27And it's gentle on the skin. It's a powerful clean you can feel good about. So go on, pick up a bottle of All Free Clear for your next laundry day. didn't deliver the results that we were looking for because this, this, and this was out of alignment. Since then, I've learned how to do a deeper dive into the research to better align my activities with the marketplace. You want to make sure that if, in fact, you're talking about a shortcoming that you brought to the table that contributed to being selected, you want to talk about, okay, what's different now? So that what is left in that interviewer's mind is, hey, this person had an obstacle, but they are resilient and they emerged stronger, better, smarter for it.

26:19So Nidia, being laid off, does that change your ability to like trust a new employer? I think for me, it doesn't just because I've kind of known what it was from the beginning, like companies are always going to do what's best for them. Melanie, like they've literally had you relocate and then laid you off. Like they don't, I don't want to say they don't care, but I don't think that they value like your quality of life as much as you do, which I mean, that's just kind of what it is. So I think I'm at the same place that I was in the beginning. And if anything, it's made me more passionate about starting my own business.

27:01That's what Melanie did. She created her own business. Melanie, I admire you so much because you really took a situation that could have really like knocked you down. And you could have stayed down easily. And you're like, you know what? Turn this to my own benefit. And you really did that. I think that's like the coolest story I've ever heard. It is just so exciting. I'm still excited. But I did. I started Precision Talent International, my business, out of being laid off and started doing what I love doing and absolutely turning my competency as well as my passion into a lucrative business. and so I can't be laid off.

27:55I cannot. Now I'm working harder than I've ever worked in my entire life and loving it. That's amazing. I would love to talk to you after this. Happy to. Thank you both so much for being open with your stories and being vulnerable with me here and I just appreciate the both of you. Anytime. Yeah, thank you. I really love that this episode ends with optimism, despite all the heavy stuff we talked about. Speaking of optimism, I do have an update from Nydia. She recently started a new job at a green energy nonprofit, and she says she's really excited by the work. And she is almost ready to launch her pet sitting business.

28:42It's called the Cozy Pup Club. Look out for her website. Coming soon. here are the main things that i'm taking away from this conversation number one after you get laid off it is okay to take some time to feel your feelings give yourself say a week and then start working on your path forward number two part of the time that you're taking to feel your feelings is considering if you want to keep doing what you're doing Are you happy or do you need a change? A layoff can force you to pause and consider some bigger questions about your career. So don't be afraid to take that opportunity and make some big changes.