How Do I Justify My First Raise? | S1E6 | New Here

0:00When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade Electrolytes, Zero Sugar, and Vitamins.

0:35Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes. Do you think you're ready for a raise? We asked you all to share your experiences asking for your first raise, and Juan sent us this message. The first time I asked for a raise, I was very scared. So it was really hard for me. I've been working for around for years in this company. And I start to understand how important I was for the team. You have to understand how valuable you are. That's like the biggest lesson I learned from that process.

1:18Juan is right that knowing your value is important. But getting your first raise is also about being strategic. paying attention to what's going on at your company and with your boss and even your boss's boss. Welcome to New Here, honest conversations and practical advice to help you play the game called work. I'm Eleni Mata. If you're thinking it's time to ask for your first raise and you aren't sure where to start, this episode is for you. One of the biggest things to realize is that getting a raise is a lot more than just having a conversation with your boss where you ask for more money. It's a process that actually starts on day one of your new job.

2:03Today, we'll walk you through how to make the case for your first raise, from laying the groundwork to talking with your boss and the negotiation that follows. Here to help us do that are two guests who both have a ton of experience with career and money matters. Annelise Gada, or Annelise Wealth, as she's known on her podcast, is a certified public accountant who writes and educates about personal finance. She's also worked in corporate environments like Big Five accounting firms, where she's learned how to make the case for her own compensation. And Gork Ng is here too. He's a college career advisor and the author of a book that we think a lot about on this show.

2:46It's called The Unspoken Rules, Secrets to Starting Your Career Off Right. Full disclosure, HBR published that book. But Goric started his career in investment banking and later worked in consulting. So he has a lot of personal experience to share. Okay, let's get into it. before like i share my story about asking for a raise i want to ask both of you had do y 'all remember the first time that you had to ask for a raise in your first professional job in your

3:19Elainy Mata:career well actually the first time was when i didn't get paid at all it was a volunteer opportunity it was for a for-profit company so they're making money and i'm helping them make money and I felt like I was actually doing a lot more than even some of their current employees were doing. So I said, hey, I'd love to contribute maybe longer term and over the course of school and over the coming semester. I am evaluating a couple of other opportunities. Admittedly, they are paid. I'm wondering if we might be able to talk about a stipend, an honorarium, synonyms for a paycheck.

4:04Not straight up. That's really funny.

4:09Elainy Mata:And I think the first time it may have been a gift card now that I think about it. Really? Yeah. If I hadn't asked, it would have still been zero. Yeah. Wow. So, Anlisa, I'm curious about your first raise story and then I'll share mine.

4:24Anne-Lyse Ngatta:Oh, sure. The first few years of my career were a little, I guess, different at most because the company where I worked, They don't give you like an amazing salary to start, but what they did do every year is they give you a really good raise. So I didn't really have to fight for the first, I want to say first three, four years to get like 15, 20 percent raise. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.

5:02Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes.

5:30Anne-Lyse Ngatta:So it took me to get out of that job and start another job and then have the surprise three, four percent raise because I wasn't used to that. So I wouldn't call it my first raise, but that was the first time that I actually had to negotiate to get a raise. And, you know, it took a few months. I want to say a good three, four months. And I did get a nicer bump than four percent. yeah going into like my first professional job that's when I had to negotiate and ask for a raise for the first time and I remember like I had to call my mom and was like so how do you do like how do you word it because to me communication is like the hardest thing it's like how do I convey this in a way that still sounds professional but I still sound like me I still sound authentic and I like wrote everything down.

6:20I practiced, but like also improvised. So practicing the improvisation so I don't feel like I mess up during the conversation. Like I asked my manager first, like, can we have the conversation? And she said, yes. And then we scheduled a separate meeting to have the actual conversation. And I told her, this is how much I'm getting paid now. And this is how much I would like to have. And she's like, okay, well, let me get back to you. And I think it took three weeks to a little bit more than that. And then she finally was like, oh, congrats, we're giving you this amount. But it was like$12 ,000 less than what I'd asked for.

6:55My first instinct was I would like to renegotiate that. And she's like, okay, well, I'm going to try. And then she came back and she told me like, I'm sorry, this is the amount that they came up with. I don't think it can go anything higher. But before we go into what do you do when that happens, I was mentioning like one of my challenges is communicating and saying it in a way that sounds professional and appealing. I want to ask both of you, what are some challenges that you feel like early career professionals or somebody going into like their first professional job face when asking for a first raise?

7:36Anne-Lyse Ngatta:I think there's several challenges. one that's very common is wondering if you're worthy of that raise right have you been able to deliver the type of work that would commend that raise and when you don't have anything to compare like if you don't have like a peer to talk to or like you did talking to your mother and getting advice from professionals you might feel like you don't even deserve the raise yet I think another challenge is you don't necessarily want to come across as someone who's only in it for the money. Right. So you might be hesitant to have the conversation. But like, I want to challenge this because aren't we all in it for the money, though?

8:18Like we're here. Like we're working for the money. So why not ask for that money, you know, but it is hard, like finding that worthiness. And I don't know if it's like imposter syndrome, or if you just struggle with advocating for yourself in general.

8:35Elainy Mata:Yeah, for folks in their early career, and honestly, for the rest of our careers and lives, it's this delicate balancing act of being at the right time and saying it with the right tone. What I often see are folks either asking too early or too late, asking too firmly or asking too softly. What? Okay. Right. So if we're talking about too early, I mean, I have lost count of the number of folks I've talked to who have this, oh, kids these days kind of conversation, right? Like, oh, these millennials, these Gen Z, they're so entitled. They just showed up to work for two weeks and now they want to be CEO.

9:21Elainy Mata:That's an example, right? Of being too early, perhaps. Then there's the opposite end of the spectrum who are folks who...

9:55Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes.

10:15Elainy Mata:May have that imposter syndrome, may not have an insider in the industry who can whisper in their ear and tell them how things really work, in which case they might wait and wait forever. And those are the folks who are waiting for too long. And then you've got folks who are asking maybe too firmly, who come off as if they're entitled to this promotion, or I demand this, or why isn't it that I'm getting paid this? And all of that is just a matter of tone of voice. Meanwhile, there are also folks who are a little bit too soft on the other end of the spectrum, who end up kind of negotiating against themselves.

10:50Elainy Mata:I mean, I'm just even speaking for myself, right, where I don't end a question with a question mark. And instead, I start negotiating against myself where I'm like, hey, what if we could talk about this? Oh, but we don't actually have to do this if you don't want to. Like over-explaining? Over-explaining. Yeah, I do that so much. Yeah. And so it's really this delicate balance of both time and firmness. Yeah. So for both of you, when do you think is a good time to ask? Is it like after this one big project that you've done, do you wait for three big projects that you've done? Like, and all jobs are different.

11:27What should one person should be thinking about of like, okay, by this point, I should ask for this raise. And the advice that I've gotten is like, once your job starts to stem out of what your original job description is entailing, like that's when you need to ask. Do y 'all agree or disagree?

11:47Anne-Lyse Ngatta:I do agree with that. But sometimes it's also just a matter of like, how long have you been with the company? Because you can join a company and within a month or two, they already are giving you more responsibilities than what the original job description was for. And I think at that time, it might be too soon. I do believe that, you know, if you spend maybe six months, then you have a track record of performing and exceeding expectations and you can make a stronger case. But also I want to talk about the folks who have been at a company for longer than a year and they're waiting until the next performance review.

12:25Anne-Lyse Ngatta:I think by then it's probably too late. I think you want to have the conversation at the beginning of the year when the goals are being set so that you know exactly how you're going to be reviewed and so that you can keep a record of how you're exceeding expectations so that when the time comes later in the year, you can go to your manager and say, well, you know, as I mentioned earlier this year, you know, I really want to get a raise. And this is all of the things that I did to warrant me basically asking for a raise. Because the challenge with waiting until performance review time is that the budget might just not be there anymore.

13:07Oh, dang. So it really is timing. That's hard.

13:11Elainy Mata:I think what I'm hearing from both of you is that there's timing with respect to where you are in the calendar year and the budgetary cycle, but also timing as it relates to your performance and your potential, where I first ask myself, am I a high performer in the eyes of other people? Then the question becomes, are you also a high potential? And that speaks to the conversation you just had about, are you extending beyond your core job description? Where folks are seeing enough potential in you that they're thinking, hey, you're too good to just be doing this. How about we also pull you into this other thing?

13:48Elainy Mata:How about you come join us at this important client meeting? And once you find yourself extending beyond that core job description, you're in many ways already getting a promotion, quote unquote. You're getting a promotion in the form of additional responsibilities, which is a good endorsement that people trust you. That's the point at which it starts making sense to start asking yourself, hey, okay, I've gotten promoted from the perspective of. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more.

14:28Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes.

15:00Elainy Mata:More important responsibilities can now I ask for a better job title and I ask for more money. I wasn't thinking about promotion in that way, like where like, oh, you're getting asked to do more or like be part of more meetings. Like I wasn't thinking about it. So I like that because now I'm like, hey, I've been promoted. I've been promoted a lot. I should be talking more. Like clearly I'm worth more to you now. Yeah, because you're inviting me to these things. Yeah, fair. I like that. I feel like I need to have you in my corner to be like, Eleni, this just happened. So you're worth more. I have a question from a listener, Harshini.

15:42and they said, I just started a couple of months ago. The salary listed was 1.5 times the one they offered me since I didn't have enough experience. My manager and my team is happy with my work and I think I'm delivering results faster than they expect as well. Do you think I can directly ask them for a raise in my salary to 1.5, the original listed salary? Or how long should I wait before I talk about a raise and how much can I ask for? What do you all think?

16:14Anne-Lyse Ngatta:If you're at the six-month mark, you can definitely ask for a raise. You're able then to demonstrate the value that you've been able to bring to the company, to the team, and you are more likely to get a raise or at least be in line to get a raise soon. I think that it's very important, though, to also do some internal research and kind of understand in terms of your company, what is the policy when it comes to raises within the company? So if you're already part of the company, it's unlikely that they'll give you a 50 % raise. But once you have the data from the HR department and you know where the company stands in terms of how much you can get percentage-wise increase, then you know what the max is and you can tailor your ask based on that.

17:07Anne-Lyse Ngatta:But I definitely anything that if this person has been able to exceed expectations, they've been able to deliver, they can make a case for this.

17:15Elainy Mata:Yeah, I love the advice of doing some research because you really need to have a conversation before the conversation. Talk about it. Tell me about it. Yeah, well, this is where a raise and the conversation that hopefully leads that raise isn't just something you want to wake up one day and say, okay, I'm going to set up a meeting. In an ideal world, you're coming at this having already had a couple of other conversations with folks around this person or this decision. And that means building allies and mentors at this workplace as early as your first day or even before then to understand how do things actually work around here?

17:53Elainy Mata:because when I think about this particular case, it sounds like there's a policy, there's what's written, but there might be some ambiguity or some ability to bend those rules. And so the first thing I would try to understand is, okay, where does this experience clause come from? And do they have something very rigid as in you need to have two years of experience, a master's degree, and some work environments really are that rigid. But anything short of that, and maybe there's something about not experience, but contribution. It sounds like Harshini's situation is one where people were expecting that with experience comes a greater ability to contribute, but Harshini was able to contribute so much more despite the lack of experience.

18:43Elainy Mata:If that's the case, well, can we revisit this because the spirit of the policy is one of contribution and not experience? That's something you need to learn from a co-worker who's been through this process before. You want to be armed with as much information as possible.

19:01When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins.

19:36Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. So that's how you lay the groundwork for getting a raise. Coming up after the break, we're going to talk about that big moment, the actual negotiation with your boss, and strategies to get the outcome you want. Be right back.

20:08Okay, we're back. Let's pick it up where we left off. should we go in with a set number when like going into the room to have this conversation i believe you should have two you should have what you're going to ask and what your real number is the reason being most likely you won't necessarily get what you want because remember it's going to

20:32Anne-Lyse Ngatta:be a negotiation so yeah my philosophy is have two numbers i love that me too and when it comes to

20:40Elainy Mata:having those two numbers, there's probably going to be somewhat of a difference between the number that's possible within your particular context and the number that you're actually valued at with the market. And so another way of thinking about your worth, which is kind of at the crux of this whole conversation, is what else could you get? Now, the more antagonistic way of doing this, and some people unfortunately really are in the situation, or fortunately, depending on your perspective, is someone comes along like a recruiter, for example, and says, hey, check out this role. We can pay you this much.

21:19Elainy Mata:And it's like, oh my goodness, it's magnitudes more than I currently have. Those people go to their company and say, hey, I would love to really have this conversation about whether I could get a little bit more. And then the company shoots down the conversation. And then they accept this other offer that's paying them a lot more and they come back and then their company's like, oh, wait a second. Like, actually, we could pay you more, in which case, you know, folks are then coming back and thinking, well, did it really take someone else to pull me away for you to really treat me with value? So that's the antagonistic way.