How Does Netflix Address Corporate Diversity?

0:00Hey Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Crocs store today. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.

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1:10Hello, and welcome to HBR Now. I'm Octavia Gorodima. I'm a career coach and the founder of 2010 Agency. And I'm here with my co-hosts, R.D. Ignatius, the Editor-in-Chief of Harvard Business Review, and Josh Marked, who runs product and innovation at HBR. Our special guest today is Renee Myers, VP of Inclusion Strategy at Netflix. Her company is on a mission to entertain the world. The Netflix adventure began 23 years ago. Fast forward to now, Netflix streams TV shows, movies, and documentaries in more than 30 languages and 190 countries around the world. We'll be talking to Renee Myers about how to create and sustain a diverse workforce at a global company and how to overcome challenges along the way.

1:56If you have a question for Renee, We invite you to post those in the comments and we'll be asking those later. But first, let's hear from our sponsor, our friends at Accenture.

2:09Change is all around us. Shaped by technology and human ingenuity. We can make it work for you and your business.

2:22so with so many of us working from home staying at home doing pretty much everything at home this year streaming something we love has been a salvation we found something on tiktok that speaks to just that all right season four the crown's out you know this you are strong you are not going to binge watch the crown you are not going to binge watch the crown you are not going to binge watch the crown. Oh, f***. I'd have a British accent, right? She's Australian. I'm not. Australian, oh God, you're terrible. But right now I have to do that. You're going to kill me for that. You're going to kill me.

3:05Her audience will kill you. I've not watched The Crown, and that's because I'm not watching any TV at the moment because I'm busy writing a book. But I do want to talk to you both what you've been streaming. Adi, do you have any recommendations for me? Well, so I T-voted the U.S. election, so don't say anything. I don't know the result. I assume it was straightforward, so I'm looking forward. This is why you're so interesting, Adi. Quite a lot. But no, I'm a – so, I mean, this will sound like product placement with Renee on the show, but I have binged a lot of Netflix recently. Queen's Gambit and The Crown, I'm a sucker for these sort of costume dramas.

3:41Fauda, the Israeli-Palestinian spy thriller. And then some lighter stuff. I love the Kaminsky Method with Michael Douglas and the amazing Alan Arkin. And then for just, you know, kooky, funny, there's something called Auntie Donna's Big Ol' House of Fun, which is really funny. It's sort of off the wall. It's kind of like the Flight of the Conchords, if you ever watch that. Yeah, I used to watch that. Yeah, it's definitely, these are Aussies, not New Zealanders. You've basically taken them all, Adi. Oh, really? You have the same taste. What do you not watch? Clearly you make it up for the fact that Octavia doesn't watch TV.

4:17I know. She wins this round because she does not own a television set or something. Oh, that was a joke when I told you I don't own a TV set, but you fell for it. But Josh, do you have anything to name? I mean, Queen's Gamma and the Crown thing, I was sort of related to the TikTok. I did fall. I definitely fell into it. And then, boom, I had watched the whole thing. And, uh, no, there are probably a couple other strange offbeat things that I get into. And then I'm, you know, there's a show great about Catherine the Great that is like a whimsical comedy that, uh, and, and like a little strangely risque, but I haven't been able to, some shows I just kind of dip in and out of and I can't fully hook into them.

4:58So I don't know. Hey, Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know, back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Croc store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more.

5:41Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. I've heard the Queen's Gambit is amazing. I used to play chess. My daughter's play chess. So I'm writing a book. That's why. You've got to make a few minutes. I'll make a few minutes. I mean, a big part of writing a book is procrastinating and you need some good procrastination. Oh, yeah. I'm good at that.

6:18So I've taken some notes. I'll get onto Netflix and watch some of those things. But for now, I would like to get started and to formally introduce our guest. Vene Myers is the VP of Inclusion Strategy at Netflix. She's responsible for integrating cultural diversity, inclusion, and equity into all aspects of the company's worldwide operations. In addition to founding the Vanay Wires company, she's a Harvard-trained lawyer and the author of two books, Moving Diversity Forward, How to Go from Well-Meaning to Well-Doing, and What If I Say the Wrong Thing, 25 Habits for Culturally Effective People.

6:57And if you haven't seen it already, Vene's TED Talk, How to Overcome Our Biases, Walk Boldly Toward Them, has been viewed over 3 million times. Vene, welcome to the show. Hi, it's so good to be here. Hi, Octavia. How are you? I'm great, and thank you for being with us today. So, Vinay, this year has been a year unlike any other. And with the pressure to address racial inequities, many companies have rushed to hire diversity leaders or elevate existing leaders to the position. And it's a high demand role and one that has been victim to high turnover due to high expectations and lack of resources.

7:39What strategies do you recommend to corporate diversity, inclusion and equity leaders who may be suffering from burnout from the challenges of this year? Oh, my goodness. You want to start off with a really hard question, right? I mean, so many of us are burned out for so many reasons, especially if you're working in talent at all. And then you add on top of that the the revelation that many in the country had that many of us already had for a long period of time. And it was just a lot to try to bring it all together. one of the things that I think is important is for companies to commit to, I love that Accenture piece with the beginning, let the change begin, which is that if you actually are going to be honest about where any corporation, especially in America is, but anti-Black racism, for example, is a worldwide thing, you know, patriarchy is a worldwide thing.

8:38And so many of our organizations have been shaped by these ideas of who's the better and the smarter and the more reliable and so forth. And it's mostly the normed around white and male and so forth. I'm saying all this to say that what we're trying to do is undergo a change process. So if you're going to do that, you've got to have enough people who can do that work. I think one of the problems and the reasons why folks are so tired often in these companies is they don't have enough people doing the work and there's so much resistance, whether it is like in your face resistance or if it's just like unconscious ways in which people are resisting a change that it really can be hard and wear folks out.

9:25And so what I have been saying to my own team is take the time that you need and also be in community. I mean, one of the other aspects of what we've learned at least in westernized culture, is it's very individualistic. Like what you do and what you accomplish, you sort of attribute to yourself and all of the ways in which one tries to be a leader is often individual, individual. And this work, and I think a lot of the work around cultural enrichment and change and opportunity. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

10:15Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local croc store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest croc store today. Equity and equity is about having a group consciousness and being part of community.

11:02And when people in my job start adopting that individualistic mindset, it's even more tiresome. So stay in community, do the work. You know, I started doing like, I mean, I was already doing prayer and meditation, but I stepped it up. Like I just stepped it up and I'm just like, this is how we're going to get through this year, which is like some quiet time, some self-reflection, trying to keep my exercise up. All of that is like a fulsome approach to trying to not only maintain yourself, but to keep yourself clean. Because this work can be very traumatizing. and you don't want to lead out of your trauma.

11:54You know, you don't want to lead out of your sense of frustration. You want to try to constantly keep yourself filled and cleared out of the yuck so that you can really offer the energy that people need to change. So let's talk a little bit more about that point you made about resources. diversity, equity and inclusion departments are often the smallest teams when it comes to budget and staffing levels. And yet these departments are responsible for influencing and creating systemic change within their companies. What recommendations do you have for CEOs on how best to support their DEIT? Yeah.

12:36So get some people, you know, it was interesting because, you know, I have been on my own for 20 years working with organizations and really helping to advise them and consult with them. And it was a very difficult decision for me to decide that I would go inside another company. And one of the reasons that I decided that I would go to Netflix is because when I said, well, I'm going to need a team, they were like, of course, do what you need. and when I started the first year I remember talking to my boss and I was like I mean I think I'm gonna need this I think I'm gonna need that much okay do what you need do what you need to be successful and when companies are like we want this but you're not putting in the resources that means to me that it's an intellectual exercise but you're not really deeply into it And so the way we're structured is we have like directors that are correspond with each of our business units or what we call orgs.

13:39And they all they also have a team. And of course, you know, we're spreading all over the country every five minutes. One of the reasons why I said yes to Netflix is like, oh, you only have 4000 people. That should be fine. I might even know these people by name. And then one year we doubled. doubled. And I was like, oh, stop. And I really started saying to all of my leaders, and I was very, very frank with them. I was like, look, everybody has to be absolutely conscious about every hire they're making and everything they're doing as a leader. Because if you don't, we're going to fall behind quickly because we're growing quickly.

14:18And I want us to not fall behind. I want us to move forward. And that's often a problem. Companies start getting bigger, they start acquiring other companies and so forth, and they don't pay attention to the cultural friction sometimes that results, and they don't keep their eyes on the numbers or the representation. So that's one of the things I would say. So, Vinay, let's talk about the industry you're in, entertainment. Diversity and inclusion has been a hot topic for some time. Each year, UCLA releases is the Hollywood Diversity Report. Part one looks at film and part two. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.

14:59You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18 plus. Hey Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new Fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look.

15:35Try it, style it, make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Crocs store today. which was just released this fall, looks at TV. This year, both reports found that women and people of color are overwhelmingly absent in top studio positions. What's your take on this? And specifically, what is Netflix doing to hire underrepresented employees at a senior level and retain those employees? Yeah, so my take on this is that nothing is new, right? And both, because we're both entertainment and also tech, quite frankly.

16:19Like there's no tech, there's no entertainment in the streaming world. And both of those areas are highly dominated by men and by white folks. And this is just what it's been. These have been exclusive environment with gatekeepers and or just unconscious ways of proceeding that cause that representation, underrepresentation to persist. So on some level, it's like, you know, this has always been the case. But now we have people actually putting those numbers in front of us. And I think you will see that Netflix did extremely well as compared to other studios. However, you know, you can't really rest on those laurels because, well, it's still way too low.

17:02And so what we're doing is, first of all, our feeling and my belief is you got to start on the inside. if you want the outside to reflect, you know, this idea of representation and equity, which is to say that by bringing in folks who've been underrepresented in the past, you are accessing different perspectives and networks and innovation and creativity. And you're breaking up that group thing. So our first work is always, always thinking about who's coming in. But as you also said, like, where are they sitting? And so I would say that I'm really happy that if I look at the top 22 leaders in our company, many, many women and many, many people of color, I would say actually black folks, we have a lot of work to do.

17:56I think on the Latinx front, so does a lot. So do every, so does every company and institution, quite frankly, women well represented. I think our leadership is like 48 % women, right? And in the top 22, that reflection is there as well. So we're looking not just at the numbers, but where people are situated. And in particular, we have work to do, but we've made a lot of good progress in the content area. But in addition to that, we're doing pipeline work where we're trying to look at who's in front of the camera and who's behind the camera, because one of these studies are suggesting that the folks who are behind the camera, if they're underrepresented folks, who you see in front of the camera are many more underrepresented folks.

18:43So we've got things all over the world where we're like bringing in talent, getting to know people we didn't know, making it easier to get access to green lighters. And our green lighters are much more diverse than many other companies because of Netflix's strategy of having decision makers everywhere in the company. So you don't have to be in a particular role in order to make decisions about content. So if you've just tuned in, this is HBR Now. Our guest is Vinay Myers, VP of Inclusion Strategy at Netflix. If you have a question for Vinay, please post it in the comments. So Vinay, I'm gonna ask you one more question before I bring my co-hosts in.

19:23Last week, NASDAQ filed a proposal with the SEC that would require listed companies to have at least one woman on their boards in addition to a director from an underrepresented minority group. Here in California, starting next year, public companies headquartered in the state will be legally required to diversify their boards. Many leading companies, including Netflix, have found their boardrooms under scrutiny when it comes to representation. What's your perspective? Hey, Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local croc store and step into your new look.

20:05Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest croc store today. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast.

20:46Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. On the introduction of minimum thresholds for corporate diversity. take? My perspective is it's too low. It's just too low. I mean, we already have research that suggests that you basically need three women to make it a real diverse situation. Because if you're only, you got to think constantly about what you're saying and how you're saying it, how it's going to be received. And that's the thing that I kind of love about Netflix. So we have e-staff, right, which is all the VPs. And when you're in a room that's half women, it's like you can say anything, you can do anything, you can have different opinions than other women.

21:31It's just so exciting. Or when you're in a room with all a bunch of black people who are in the decision making roles, you're just like, you know, I don't even have to talk today. You talk. So I think it's too low. And if I look at our board, we have, I think we have three or four women. Yeah, we have four women, which I think starts to make a difference, and one person of color who's Black. And so we have a lot, we have more work to do. Let's just be clear about that. But I think we are already above almost all of these imposed kind of requirements. And so our work is just to push beyond that and also see if we can bring some folks along with us.

22:12So I want to bring back Josh and Adi to ask some questions. Hey, Renee, how are you? That was fascinating. I was actually really enjoying it backstage there, virtually watching you. It's great. But I'm curious, you know, with the pandemic, it is such a challenge for all of us to work at home. In your work, I'm curious what the particular challenges and how you overcome them. Yeah. And what are you doing? Well, you know, first of all, I turned 60 this year. And I had a plan. I was going to walk. I was going to be on pilgrimage in Spain. I was going to fly all over the world. And our team, we were going to go to Amsterdam.

22:53We were going to go to our offices in APAC. We were going to hang out in LATAM. It was going to be this whole year of going and touching base and sort of thinking about the peculiar or the unique aspects of inclusion and how to get our colleagues' mind around that. It didn't happen. So, but what was kind of cool that we didn't expect is once we went to virtual, we were able to do more things. In fact, we started this whole inclusion talk series for the entire company. And basically, we had people like Kimberly Crenshaw talk about intersectionality. We had we invited folks from different countries to talk about xenophobia.

23:39We had folks talk about mental health. We had, you know, a number of conversations about racism and anti-Black racism and institutionalized racism. And like, so what was exciting is because we have this virtual world, you could have two, three thousand people all experiencing the same thing. We also did a number of workshops. We have a workshop on ambassadorship, which is sort of really about how our talent colleagues, that's our talent acquisition folks, our HRBPs, our, you know, our employee services folks, their role to understand inclusion and what it means. because at all times we're just trying to get people to apply what we call an inclusion lens to the work that they do.

24:26So those are some of the specific programming we were able to do that we didn't expect once we stopped traveling, but nevertheless found our way around. And it seems like some of those things are tools you'll have now going forward, even when we come out of this, which is a good thing. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of our work also is just advising our leaders because we're... Experience a membership that backs your business journey with American Express Business Platinum. Earn five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked on amextravel.com. Plus, apply to find out your welcome offer, which could be as high as 300 ,000 membership rewards points.

25:09American Express Business Platinum. There's nothing like it. Terms apply. Welcome offers vary and you may not be eligible for an offer. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash business dash platinum. Asking leaders to do things and to understand things that they, most leaders were not asked to do or were not taught growing up in the leadership roles. And so a lot of it is us advising and setting strategies for them that include inclusive leadership and leading their groups. That's hiring, that's compensation, that's evaluation, that's like every aspect in practice. It's even like how you conduct a meeting.

25:50It's like whose voices you're hearing, how slowly you're speaking, you know, what time you're setting meetings, knowing that we're all over the world. Those kinds of things require specific advice or coaching, and we're doing that as well. So I'd love to ask, you know, so we know that our readers are really interested in trying to understand how to create and sustain a diverse workforce. This is a moment where it's become kind of paramount, but I've lived through earlier moments where society generally said, this is a moment, we have to do something about it. there were incentives created for managers to diversify their hiring.

26:34Somehow it faded away in the past. And I guess my question is, why does it fade away? And do you feel like it is different this time, that there's something fundamental happening that won't simply run out of steam? Oh, that's such a good question, Adi. I mean, I'll be going back and forth about how I feel about this. I mean, I think about like when I was eight years old, the night before I turned eight, Martin Luther King was assassinated. And again, our country was like, oh, right. How do we stop the anger? How do we stop the fires? How do we, oh, we'll do more programs. We'll do this. And I was a beneficiary of that.

27:10You know, I was a little girl in Baltimore, working class background. All of a sudden there were pools, there were math enrichment programs. You could go out of district to your school. That got me to Barnard. That got me to Harvard. That got me here, but not everybody got out, right? It was way too narrow. It was like the door barely opened. And that has been the work we've been doing. We've been doing this tinkering. What I hope is different about this time is that folks are coming up close and personal with the fact that we have normed one culture to the disadvantage and the inequity of other cultures and ways of being, and that that is wrong.