Is Entrepreneurship a Good Fit for Me? | New Here | S1E10

0:01This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more.

0:38Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

0:56Jemma Sbeg:So I graduated back in 2021 and was like, I'm going to be a consultant. Got this great job at the time. It was my dream job. Was super excited and was there for about a year and a half. This is Gemma Spegg, the creator and host of the hit podcast, The Psychology of Your 20s. Gemma had been a consultant, but when we talked to her, she had just quit that job to focus on her passion project, making her podcast. We talked to her as she started her first full day as a podcaster, which is a job title she hadn't anticipated for herself. the first like year and a half I really didn't have any listeners I didn't really have any external reinforcement but I think that that made me love it even more and as things got more popular and suddenly I had so many listeners it was actually really overwhelming I didn't really know how to cope because I was like I'm just this like small town girl who's just like You know, lives in Australia.

2:13Jemma Sbeg:And suddenly all these businesses and all these people are reaching out to me. For Gemma, juggling a full-time job and a growing podcast was just too much. But leaving her 9-to-5 life behind to work for herself carried real financial risks. And it also was a huge change in the way that she was living and working. What if she left the office behind only to end up broke and less happy? You quit, which is brave as hell. Are you scared of anything? Oh my gosh, yes. Welcome to New Here. Honest conversations and practical advice to help you play the game called work. I'm Eleni Mata. This week, we wrap up our first season with a question that so many of us are grappling with.

3:04should I quit the corporate life that may not feel right for me and pursue my passion project? So some people can take this kind of risk, especially if you don't have a lot of financial responsibilities. But you still may be worried about stability and what your future is going to look like with less of a roadmap. There's a whole list of questions and uncertainties you might need to consider before making that huge decision, which is why we wanted to hear about it from Gemma as she began her journey. We talked to her way back in May, literally on the first day she started working for herself. She told us how she made the decision to leave her job and how she planned for her transition, including dealing with some real fears about how she would pay her bills and battle loneliness.

3:52Then we went back to Gemma five months after she started working for herself, because we wanted to find out which of her fears were warranted, how she created new structures for herself, and if she is really happier on her own. One more thing. Keep in mind that this is just one person's story. Taking the corporate versus entrepreneurship route is a personal decision. Today, our goal is to help you think through the possibilities and trade-offs as we learn from Gemma's experiences. okay let's dive in with Gemma and hear more about what her corporate job was like and why she wanted

4:32Jemma Sbeg:to leave if you've worked in consulting people out there listening or in the world you'll know that like nine to five is not your hours like I don't like if I worked nine to five like that was a really good day so I was like essentially squeezing in this side project this passion that I had in those like this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome you think you know a browser but Gemini and Chrome that's new it can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks Gemini and Chrome is here for it ready to make anything online makes sense?

5:15There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero?

5:49This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

5:52Jemma Sbeg:Spare hours of my day when I was exhausted, when I would really prefer to go and see my friends or just do something chill like watch TV. And it was a lot of work, but it was, I think, like a labor of love. I can empathize with that. So, like, full disclosure. Yeah. I also have like a like a passion project on the side other than like work. Yeah, I'm a musician. Like I compose music. I arrange music. I do it for myself and I do it for others. Like I love music. And I read this tweet that's like, if you can put in nine to five, then you can put in your five to ten for a side hustle. And it's like, you know, yes, but like, damn, I'm, that's a lot of working in one day.

6:42Like, when am I going to actually chill? But I, it's definitely a labor of love because you're like, this is a lot of work, but I really like doing it. So I wonder like, when did that thought start to leave working for somebody else to go work for yourself?

7:01Jemma Sbeg:Honestly, like only like the start of the year. So what is it now? Of this year. of this year yeah wow I I fully was like I was going for promotions at my old job I was like investing in the culture and I and I I did love the community at my old job like it was quite sad to leave but I was like I'm gonna make it to manager then I'm gonna be a director and then I'm gonna be a principal at this firm and this podcast thing will just follow along with me and I have to give a shout out I had like I think I was very lucky where I had an agent from the US reach out to me her name's Shelby I didn't even know that an agent for a podcaster was a thing and she really was someone who understands the industry really believed in me and she was really like no what you have here is really special and this can be something really big I'm going to show you out where everything is and I'm going to show you how the ropes work and I started working with her in like October last year and then she was efficient by like January she kind of convinced me that like I could quit like this could be my full-time job so I have a few more questions about like your this like newness of being out of your job like how was your first day of freedom of not going in and following that structure.

8:32Jemma Sbeg:Yeah, it was a little bit lonely, actually. And I also, it was so funny, I had a meeting yesterday and I was like super late to it because I didn't put it in my calendar because I'm like used to having things on Teams and it like pops up being like, you have a meeting in 15 minutes. Does it do that on your computer? Where it's like, yeah yeah it's like every five minutes it'll remind me yeah literally and I was like oh I need to start using google calendar because my like my work life is now also my personal life and it's not they're not separate like I need to organize this as one like you know because previously it was like yes no sorry friend or sorry person I cannot meet with you during the hours of nine to five because I am working and now it's like oh I can meet with you during those hours but suddenly I have to remember that I'm doing that like I'm not just sitting down for this discreet period just to you know like work and not be distracted yeah wow that's so oh that'll be tough that'll be interesting and it was before like it was before but I think more from in somewhat of a deficit like it it was more that I was giving up on like a big motivator for me This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.

9:55You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more.

10:30Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

10:48Jemma Sbeg:For quitting was the fact that I didn't have any work-life balance. So it's interesting that I said to you, like, my first day was kind of lonely. I was also very lonely when I was working full-time and doing the show on the side because I, like, didn't have any time to see my friends. I really, I would make so many sacrifices of being like, I'm sorry, I can't hang out. I'm going to have to, I was canceling all the time. I'm like, God bless my friends for putting up with me. But like every second thing I'd be like, I got an episode due. I got a meeting. I got a ride. So I think that is one of those things where it has already intersected with my personal life a little bit.

11:28Jemma Sbeg:And also I've become like friends with people in the industry. But I'm interested to see whether this like consumes my entire identity and whether it like consumes like my entire life. And I have a feeling it might. Yeah. I feel that I have that same fear. My brother was talking to me about it too, that he's like, I'm afraid of doing something that I love full time. And then it becomes something that I hate because I'm doing it full time. Yeah. And it's interesting that you say that because I do think that the idea that it could become something that has just worked to me is scary. But I don't think that that is a fear that should hold me back.

12:08Jemma Sbeg:I think we hear a lot more about people who are disappointed that they work their nine to five to the day they die than people who say they're disappointed because they followed their dream. Yeah. So I'm so curious because you have like an episode about talking about the psychology of the nine to five. And now it's not a nine to five. It may be an extended hour. How do you think you will be affected by that change? Like, there's so many things that are going to affect. It's going to be like the schedule change. It's going to be you making decisions for yourself. Okay, I'm going to answer like this question at a surface level about like what's going to change about my day to day.

12:53Jemma Sbeg:I think firstly, like the increased flexibility is going to be so good for my mental health. obviously I will I think that I've already seen that I'm working extended hours probably longer than I do normally work at my nine to five but not longer than I worked when I was working my nine to five and I was working doing this podcast right like it's still a win but the thing is that it just provides a lot of flexibility to be like okay I want to go for a walk in the middle of the day I never used to be able to do that I never used to be able to say I'm gonna take like two hours and go for like a hike and I know that I can come back at like five and I can just work an extra two hours till seven or till eight to make up for that and that's my decision and that flexibility I think is so important but it exists on this weird spectrum of like giving up structure right so it's like there's a balancing system here because when you have too much flexibility your consistency goes out the window it's a lot harder to motivate yourself things can kind of run away from you but of course when you have too much structure you don't have enough creative freedom you don't have enough time to kind of balance your life and to focus on your mental health and to focus on the things that are important to you so structure was one of the things that I was most scared of giving up actually it's really nice to have a place to go every day, go to an office, you know everyone there, they know you, they become your friends, you spend like 10 hours a day with them, you have breakfast, lunch, sometimes even dinner with them, at least at my work that's kind of what it was like.

14:33Jemma Sbeg:So giving up that structure of having someone to tell me what I need to do, having someone tell me if I'm meeting their expectations or not having people to be around all the time, having community. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome.

15:09Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18 plus. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast. That's indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

15:44Jemma Sbeg:Giving that up is going to be difficult. So I think that's the thing that's going to impact my overall psychological well-being, is that adjustment to spending more time alone and spending more time isolated. That's my biggest concern. Wow. That's real. I didn't even think about the lack of structure or the structure that you'd be losing in that. But I think that's like a comfort zone for sure. Because like you've been told what to do this entire time and even like how to do it. And now you have this, you, Gemma, have the freedom to create your own structure, which is really freaking cool. Yeah.

16:27Eleni, what's like your dream there?

16:30Jemma Sbeg:Like when, do you have like a timeline for when you'd like to do music full time? That's a really good question. I want to know. That's a really good question. um i don't know i guess nobody has asked me that thank you jim like nobody's asked me that before well it's awesome now i have to think about it well i i hope you think about it i i guess i never thought about the timeline because i have a little girl she's two years old so i'm thinking more about security and yeah benefits and health insurance which like that's a very western way to think so and that those are my fears those fears kind of bring me back so I I'm curious for you like you've done it like you quit which is brave as hell like good for you congratulations are you scared of anything oh my gosh yes yes and also I firstly want to acknowledge what you've said like like I'm very privileged like I live in Australia right and we're all set here there is a few other safety nets that could catch me before I fell that's a big part not to make it political but like that's a big part of it right like I can't imagine doing this in the US where I had to pay for health insurance like I don't pay for health insurance here it's free like yeah that that would be so scary to me um and also I don't have children and obviously that changes the whole dynamic so sometimes I I do feel like I need to add a caveat instead of like sitting here and being like everyone can quit their full-time job I don't think that's what I'm trying to say like I think that I it's just like a nice piece of inspiration to be like okay it can be done not that it necessarily has to be done um but also yeah I'm terrified I'm really terrified What are you afraid of?

18:26Jemma Sbeg:I'll get vulnerable, like, of it all ending, of it all coming, crashing down. The numbers start dropping and suddenly there's no one again. And I've gotten used to this level of praise and this level of interaction and this level of listenership and it will be a really sharp drop.

18:53Coming up after the break, we'll look at the aftermath of Gemma's decision to quit. What actually happens when your passion project becomes your full-time job? Be right back.

19:13Okay, so we talked about the reasons Gemma left her job, what she was worried about, and we also heard all the excitement she was feeling as she started out on her own self-employment journey. We waited five months and then we called her back to see how everything was going. And unfortunately for Gemma, since there's a huge time difference between the U.S. and Australia, she had to get up at 5.30 a.m. to talk to us. So we appreciate her. So good to see you. Likewise. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

20:00Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast.

20:35Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

20:45Jemma Sbeg:that was my like you know when you have those alarms so like this is the final alarm like this is you have to wake up yeah that was it for this morning it was like out of bed luckily I didn't even need it so I get together thank you for waking up so early and talking to us. I really appreciate it. I'm so excited to talk to you. So how has the past couple of months been like for you? Oh my goodness. A bit of a roller coaster, which I'm sure we'll get into. Overall, positive outcome. I'm feeling amazing, doing amazing. I cannot envision myself going back to my nine to five job. Yeah. I was like, I just can't imagine that happening.

21:32So what about this new lifestyle, I guess, or this new structure do you like the most?

21:41Jemma Sbeg:I think the main one, which everyone points out is the flexibility. It's so incredibly freeing to not have to live within the constraints of the hours of nine to five. And now it's like, okay I am in charge of how much I work and what I produce and the output so I can always just work harder during the week or work harder for a couple of weeks or a couple of months to give myself that time off and like an example is right now I'm in a bit of a crunch period because I'm coming to the US in November I don't want to have to do too much recording or any recording whilst I'm over there So let me just do an extra episode a week, bank them for when I go overseas and I essentially get an extra month off, which I think is so incredibly liberating.

22:33Jemma Sbeg:And I'm very grateful for to have that kind of flexibility in my life. Yeah. I think we talked about in the last time is is this structure that you would have in your nine to five where you're working for somebody else. the structure is set up for you. And now that you're working for yourself, you have to create your own structure. How has that been like to create this new time stamping for you throughout the day? Are you still figuring out what works or have you already figured it out? Yeah, it's interesting because that was the one thing I was like, oh, I think I might struggle with this. I think the main thing that I've realized is that every day is going to look really different you know right now I'm talking to you guys it's like 5 30 a.m that's not typical and then like another day you know I'll have a meeting it's you know I have meetings throughout the day but then the evening's free like all of these kind of different things crop up so how I more think about it is time stamping the week and being like there are specific tasks that need to be done each week and I've realized that certain tasks work best on a particular day so with my podcast I release on Tuesdays and Fridays so writing episodes on like Wednesdays and Thursdays works best for me because then I give myself like Friday morning to record next week's episode or Sunday evening to record the next week's episodes yeah so I think that's like the main thing I really struggled with it at first I think also that I went a little bit ham like I went a bit to the extreme because something oh how well something I realized I think is that no one's going to care about your work as much as you do so you know what I mean like yeah no one's gonna be like in your ear being like work harder work harder work harder like you have to achieve this you have to achieve this you're the only one who's really gonna do that for yourself and I think when I first like started working for myself there was like a period of like a month where I was like I need to be working every single day excessively to the max in order to make this worth it, I guess.

24:41Jemma Sbeg:And I don't necessarily think that was a terrible thing. Definitely wasn't sustainable, though, I think, in any facet of life to be doing that. So I'm really interested in the community aspect. So when you go into work, you have your people that sit around you at your desk that you talk to. And you have people to kind of bounce ideas off of. And now that you're working for yourself, like what does that equivalent look like for you now? Like, is there an equivalent? Actually, there is. It was quite lonely, like up until only probably a couple of months ago. Also, just the nature of, you know, the thing that I do now is that it's a very solitary activity.

25:23Jemma Sbeg:you can't really have someone sitting next to you having a chat while you're trying to yeah record like 40 minute hour long episodes so I don't really see anyone wow throughout the day and then I actually met these two girls who run a podcast called two broke chicks who are incredible and we went out for lunch and we sat down and we were chatting we're chatting we're chatting and then one of them just goes to me can I ask you a question and I was like yeah absolutely and she was like are you just incredibly lonely at the moment and I was like yeah I totally am and she was like we we are as well we're like wow yeah and they're like we are as well and they're like and I was like why don't we get an office space and literally between having that conversation we had an office space within a week someone was like yeah someone was just like subletting their office for like two days a week and so we just were like let's do it we invited a bunch of other creators who work in the podcasting space who we thought might benefit from it and now we have our own little office and it's so lovely it's like kind of all women in their like 20s and 30s working in this kind of audio sphere of entertainment and we get to like share frustrating things and you know when our mics don't work and when the reaction to an episode has been bad or when an ad partner is like being difficult.

26:51Jemma Sbeg:So it's really amazing. It's like something I was really excited to talk to you about. That's really cool. And how quickly that was set up. Now I'm curious of like what parts of your former working life have you brought with you in your current working life? One I've noticed is just having like this office space. Is there anything else that you've also borrowed? Honestly, on the spot not much else not much else no it's interesting like I don't really use LinkedIn as much anymore I'm like I'm kind of like tapped out of that kind of professional space in the traditional sense and the work I'm doing is always work that I want to do and I think what was the main reason that I I think always kind of struggled with working in a corporate space was I would put in all these hours all this effort I would sacrifice time with friends time with family, time to myself.

27:46Jemma Sbeg:It just felt like, oh my goodness, why am I putting in all this time to a goal, a dream, a vision that I don't necessarily believe in. And now it's this beautiful thing where it's like, well, every single hour feels like it's well spent. Yeah. And I think that ties into the work-life balance is you are enjoying what you're doing, but I wonder if work-life balance still exists if you love what you're doing. this is so interesting because I was talking to my partner about this the other day and his parents were like oh does Gemma work the same hours as you and he is a solicitor and they're like does he work this does she work the same hours as you and he was like oh probably more because she's always on the clock almost you know especially like with the social media element as well nowadays um and it like really made me realize I was like oh is that like how people see me operating like do I actually not have work-life balance like am I on my phone too much am I checking my emails too much but I think also he was right in that it's a lot easier to do over time when you love something especially since the podcast for me used to be a hobby right it used to be what I would do in my free time.

29:03Jemma Sbeg:It used to be, and it still is the thing that I greatly, greatly enjoy as an emotional creative outlet. So I still want to do that all the time. It's just about being like, no, this is also a job now. This is also work. So you can do it all the time, but it's not going to really leave a lot of space for other things. So now it's about being like, okay, let's make sure we have hard cutoffs. I try and protect my weekends. That was a big thing. Yeah. That's your boundary. Oh, I'm curious what your boundaries are. So not working on weekends. Not working on weekends. Another one that I'm trying to do is not checking emails or social media to do with the podcast first thing in the morning.

29:46Jemma Sbeg:There's like, I think also an element of that is maybe this is like, yeah. So not working on weekends, not checking my phone. My God, I'm realizing I have no boundaries. That's literally it. That's literally it. that's literally it you're really like illuminating perhaps what is a problem here i'm like i have two boundaries and they are very loose it's it's we're human we can adapt we can change this that's all yeah so that leads me to another question of like do you still love this job even now that it's become your full time It's now a job. It's not a side hustle. It's not a hobby. It's a job.

30:34Jemma Sbeg:Do you still love it? Someone said this to me the other day and I loved it. They were like, when you take your hobby and make it your career, the only people who can do that are the people who love their hobby like 150%. Because making it your job is going to rub you of that 50%. It's going to make you love it 50 % less. so if you still want to love it at 100 you've got to really freaking love it and I totally agree with that because I think I used to love it like 150 and now I love it like 100 like wow I still absolutely adore it and I would not be doing anything else my like sense of purpose is so profound I still feel like a real commitment to it I still enjoy every part of the process Yeah.