U.S. Soccer's Gregg Berhalter on Rebuilding Trust in the Wake of Controversy

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0:58Welcome to the New World of Work. I'm Adi Ignatius, Editor-in-Chief of Harvard Business Review. And thanks for joining us. If you like this content, I urge you to check out our flagship podcast, IdeaCast, available wherever you get your podcasts. So as you know, most weeks in this show, I interview a business leader, usually a CEO, and talk to him or her about the biggest challenges that they're facing in the new world of work. Today, I have a coach and someone who has been in the spotlight lately. So he's Greg Berhalter, who coaches the U.S. men's soccer team, or rather, who coached the U.S. men's soccer team in the recent FIFA World Cup.

1:38The team, you'll recall, got out of a tough first-round grouping with a memorable victory over Iran before losing to the Netherlands. Berhalter was a professional soccer player himself for 17 years, mostly in Europe, and he played for the U.S. in the 2002 World Cup. Since 2011, he's been a coach in Europe and in the U.S., and for the past four years, he's been head coach of the U.S. national team. Now, in the past couple of weeks, he's been under another kind of spotlight. Berhalter's decision to limit the playing time of one of his young players prompted the player's parents to try to blackmail him by threatening to expose an incident more than three decades ago where Berhalter and a woman got into a fight.

2:18This is the ultimate soccer mom nightmare. Berhalter took the initiative and with that woman who became his wife, put out a statement acknowledging that, yes, Greg had kicked his wife in that incident when he was 18. They'd gotten past it. Indeed, they've been married for 25 years and have four kids. Greg asked whether given all the noise around this, HBR wanted to cancel or postpone the interview. I'm thrilled to go ahead with it, and I'm pleased that he's still willing to do it. So please join me, Greg Berhalter.

2:48Gregg Berhalter:Hey, Adi. Hi, really glad you're doing this. So, you know, I want to start with a controversy, you know, and I sort of outline, you know, the bare bones of what happened. But, you know, let me ask you, what are you feeling about this? What have you learned from all of this? I think it's sadness. You know, our entire family is sad, saddened by these events, you know, something we want to move forward from. You know, as we said in the statement, it was something that we didn't hide from back then. and we weren't prepared to hide from it now. And that's why we issued this statement. You know, it's actually the events of that night, you know, 31 years ago, and the lessons learned from that basically set the foundation for our relationship moving forward.

3:35Gregg Berhalter:And it's a loving relationship, a devoted relationship, and we have four amazing kids to show for it. I think, you know, the worst part of it for me is, my heart aches for my wife because it was her story to tell if she chose to or not. And that's what just really, really saddens me. But it's moving forward. And that's the way we have to look at it together as a family. The family's been amazing. And it's taking it one day at a time and moving forward. And a big reason for doing this show is because I committed to doing it. You know, we committed to doing this before all this stuff happened. And, you know, I wasn't going to back down from it because I said I would do it.

4:22Yeah, well, I really appreciate that you're doing that. To say I met Greg actually at it was an event that the summit put on by the How Institute. And it was, you know, at that event that Greg talked. This was I mean, this is somewhat esoteric, but it was Chatham House Rules when when Greg was doing an interview. And, you know, that that that propel fitness water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you propel with Gatorade electrolytes. Hey, friends, Olivia from Oli.

5:02Between new routines and the ultimate group project known as parenting, you need science backed solutions that work with your life. That's where Oli comes in. Start your mornings off right with Maltese made to support nutrition and immune health. Choose from our lineup of gut-supporting probiotics. And we've got occasional sleep support to help the whole fan chase their big dreams. Head back to class with the number one gummy supplement brand. Stock up on Oli.com today. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

5:30Pretty much means off the record and, you know, it's just meant to be a safe space where people could talk. And, you know, I listened to you talk. You didn't you didn't throw any of your players under the bus. None of you know, we all walked away not even thinking about individual players or anything like that. So I think this all got, you know, wrongly reported and kind of misreported. And anyway, and suddenly, you know, your life is in a different place. But I really appreciate you're doing this. Is there anything else you want to you want to say about, you know, any of this stuff? It doesn't look like you're giving a lot of interviews, but anything else you want to say just sort of for the record?

6:06at this point?

6:07Gregg Berhalter:Well, you know, I appreciate you asking, but, you know, it pretty much speaks for itself. The statement speaks for itself. And, you know, like I said, we just take it one day at a time. And hopefully, you know, we look forward to the day that, you know, we can move forward from this. So I did notice, so the U.S. soccer is, you know, they've said they're doing an investigation. They've, you know, named a temporary head coach for the U.S. team. You know, would you like to stay on as coach of the men's team? You know, it's a fantastic group of players, a super high potential in this group. And, you know, we're competing in the World Cup in North America in 2026.

6:45Gregg Berhalter:So, you know, it would be an amazing challenge for this team. You know, when we started in 2018, we wanted to change the way the world views American soccer. And I think when you ask around the world now about our team, you know, the world sees us in a completely different light. But now it's about being able to take that next step. And that next step is doing something that no U.S. team has ever done. And that's get to the semifinals and see what happens from there. So there's a lot of great challenges involved. And, of course, I'd like to continue in my role. So if you just joined us, I'm speaking today with Greg Berhalter, who coached the U.S.

7:25men's soccer team at the FIFA World Cup that was just concluded. If you have questions for Greg, put them into the chat. I get that people are very passionate about soccer and very passionate about what's happening. But if you put constructive questions in there, we will try to get to some of them later in the show. I'd love your view. So we all watched, and it was thrilling. And as I said, that incredible match against Iran and then heartbreak against the Netherlands. Are you happy with the U.S. team's performance in the World Cup?

7:59Gregg Berhalter:You know, what I'd say is you very rarely go into an event like that or anything where there's just complete alignment, you know, between the entities in your team. And when I'm talking about staff, players, organization, we were completely aligned with what we wanted to achieve with our vision. And that was a beautiful thing to watch. when I think about how focused the guys were, how determined they were, the staff, how hardworking the staff was and dedicated to making sure everything was right. I mean, there was meticulous planning that went into this month-long event. And because of that, I think it was a big success.

8:39Gregg Berhalter:You know, we didn't trail in the group stage. We, you know, scored first and two of the games. We, you know, we didn't give up many chances. You know, the whole thing was, I think, an eye opener to the rest of the world of what the U.S. can do. And by the way, in those four games that we played, you know, we played the four youngest lineups in the World Cup. So, again, when I mentioned the potential of this group, you know, it's something that's exciting for U.S. soccer fans. And, you know, this was the first step for this group in terms of what they can do in the future. So you just mentioned there was a lot of talk during the World Cup that this was a relatively young U.S.

9:18team. What does that mean as a coach when you've got talent, but it's kind of young and relatively inexperienced talent? What does that mean for you trying to lead this group? Well, not all the time. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes. Hey friends, Olivia from OLLI. Between new routines and the ultimate group project known as parenting, you need science-backed solutions that work with your life.

9:53That's where OLLI comes in. Start your mornings off right with Maltese made to support nutrition and immune health. Choose from our lineup of gut-supporting probiotics, and we've got occasional sleep support to help the whole fam chase their big dreams. Head back to class with the number one gummy supplement brand. Stock up on OLLI.com today. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

10:15Gregg Berhalter:Generally, you know, experience plays a huge role. And you need guys that have been through it before that know what this is about and know how to win these knockout games. You know, knockout games in the World Cup are very difficult. And on the same side, when you have a young team, you get a group of guys that are fearless. And that's what we were. I think we debuted 18 or 19 players in the World Cup. And these guys, they weren't scared. I mean, that was the thing that struck me the most is they played in big games before. OK, they haven't played in a World Cup, but they played in big games.

10:51Gregg Berhalter:And they were ready to go out there and apply everything that they've learned throughout their lives in soccer on the field. And they did a great job. So would you announce your starting lineup, 11 guys? You've got, what is it, 14 who, you know, are probably relatively unhappy in the locker room. How do you ensure that every player, you know, continues to buy into your vision and feels valued even when you've made a tough decision like this? You know, that's a great point. And one of my opening slides in the presentation to the group, it was character versus talent or talent versus character the other way around.

11:31Gregg Berhalter:And what I said to the guys is, you know, every one of you is going to be called on to help this team be successful at the World Cup. And there are going to be different ways that you're called upon. But each and every one of you will be called upon. And, you know, it's just to me, it comes down to, you know, recognition, recognizing guys that aren't playing, you know, starring roles and recognizing the little things they do. You know, we had some tremendous examples of guys that didn't play one minute in the tournament being some of the most impactful guys off the field. And, you know, that's just a wonderful story.

12:09Gregg Berhalter:And when I talk about this alignment that we have, that the group had, you know, that's what I mean. And so for us as coaches, it starts with communication, letting people know their their roles. And, you know, one thing I like to this formula I like to use is happiness equals expectations over reality. So if you if you talk to people about what their role is and that's what their role is, they're going to be happy. It's when that proportion or that ratio is out of whack where you get unhappiness. So as a coach, you're always in the spotlight and, you know, any sports fan thinks they know better than you.

12:48And, you know, you lose, people will call for your heads. now you've got the added spotlight of this controversy swirling around. If you say you block it out, I'm not going to believe you. So my question is going to be, as a coach, as a person, how do you kind of keep focused, keep doing what you're doing when you've just got a lot of noise around you and a lot of it is threatening and is angry? How do you do it?

13:15Gregg Berhalter:I think it's leading with values. You know, if you're comfortable with what you represent every single day and what you're putting out every single day, you know, the how of what you're doing, then you can be comfortable. And, you know, it's not nice to hear negative comments about you. But, you know, when I took this job in 2018, December 2018, you know, the first year it affected me and it hurt me. And then as you're in the job, you realize that this is part of that spotlight. When you're coaching the United States national team, you know, it's a huge spotlight. And there's a lot of people that love you and a lot of people that don't love you.

13:54Gregg Berhalter:And that's just part of it. So, you know, what I'd say, Adi, and you got to believe me here, is that it's not nice, but you just count on who you are and you don't let it get to you as much. How would you characterize your own leadership style, coaching style, and to what extent has that evolved in the years that you've been?

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15:02Gregg Berhalter:That's a great question. I think anyone who's in a leadership position, you're going to evolve. And you're going to keep improving. And you're going to keep trying to get better every day. But I think what I've learned from the start to where I am now is it's about inclusion. It's about communication. It's about having clear values. I rely on the group around me. I rely on getting help. I think listening is very important. You know, it's getting feedback all the time. And I think when you lead like that, people have the feeling that they're in it also. And that's the type of environment that I want to create where, you know, people are pulling for each other, but they feel like, you know, their actions, you know, have a direct correlation to the team's success.

15:56So I want to go quickly to a question from the audience. This is from Alex from North Carolina, who's acknowledging that as a leader, as a coach, you need to gain the trust of your players. So given what's happening, what has happened with the Reinas, how do you think about rebuilding the trust that you had when everyone's sort of getting bombarded by media reports and whatever and trying to understand, OK, what's up? What are your thoughts about preserving and rebuilding trust?

16:31Gregg Berhalter:I think that is a great point. And trust is something that takes a long time to build, but can go away really quickly. And what I would say is that you have to be consistent with who you are, and you have to have clear values. And if you are, people can see that, and they can trust that consistency is there. But it certainly is something that we take very seriously. I take very seriously. My bond with the players is very strong. And it's about maintaining that bond. And I think that the players and the staff know who I am and know what I stand for. So another related question. This is from Malcolm from Massachusetts.

17:20I asked how you block out the noise. But, you know, what are strategies you use to help your athletes quiet all the kind of noise, the distraction, the media, the naysayers, the pressure? How do you how do you help them at the kind of high level that your guys are playing at?

17:35Gregg Berhalter:Yeah, that's that's a great question. I think the starting point is them not looking for validation on social media. and you know there's this there's this athlete you know syndrome almost where you know these high level players they grow up and they're always told they're great soccer players they're great soccer players they're great soccer players and that's what they keep hearing hearing hearing and what it does is it connects their identity to what they're doing on the field so if they don't play a great game you know they can perhaps think that now they're less of a person because they they didn't play great.

18:11Gregg Berhalter:And what I try to tell them is we value you for who you are as a person. And that's the most important thing. We know you're trying to play great. And sometimes you may not play great. And for us, it's how do we give them the confidence? How do we prepare them in the most thorough way that they can go out on the field and be confident in their performance? And so it's, you know, not getting validation from social media is number one. And then, preparing the players to prepare them in a way that they gain confidence from the preparation and then not attaching their performance to who they are as people because they're wonderful people and I'm sure you saw examples of that during the World Cup they just blew me away with their poise and with their consistency throughout the whole tournament Yeah, I mean it was moving I think in particular after the Iran game senior

19:05Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes. Hey friends, Olivia from Oli. Between new routines and the ultimate group project known as parenting, you need science-backed solutions that work with your life. That's where Oli comes in. Start your mornings off right with Maltese made to support nutrition and immune health. Choose from our lineup of gut-supporting probiotics, and we've got occasional sleep support to help the whole fan chase their big dreams. Head back to class with the number one gummy supplement brand.

19:38Stock up on Oli.com today. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Guys, you know, hugging some of the Iran players who had just lost. I mean, it just seemed there was... And that's real, Adi.

19:52Gregg Berhalter:That's like, that's who they are. That wasn't some, you know, like, these guys care so much and love each other so much. Like, that's literally who they are. And that action, you know, when I think about before the game, you know, the press conference and the way Tyler Adams handled the press conference. And then when I think about, you know, the lead up to the game, you know, it was trying to take, you know, we're in professional sports and it's about winning. And we desperately wanted to get to that next round. But it wasn't about making enemies of Iran. It was about just saying, OK, here are two teams that are going to be competing.

20:27Gregg Berhalter:and we want to compete to our best of our ability to win this game. And you saw that afterwards. You know, we weren't enemies with Iran. We had a lot of sympathy for what they were going through, and we showed that after the game. Yeah, well, it was, as somebody watching on TV, it was really apparent it was moving. So, you know, you seem to kind of represent a category of kind of empathetic coaches that probably dominate, you know, the landscape of CEOs, of coaches these days, where there's sort of more hugging than yelling. People in my generation sometimes fondly remember teachers, coaches, bosses who could be tough, really tough, but at the end of the day taught us a lot.

21:11And my question is, is there still a place for that kind of leadership or would that just be rejected by, in your case, the players who look to you for leadership?

21:23Gregg Berhalter:I'm not sure. I'm really not. I think there is a generational shift where the players need more communication, more information. You know, there's a general feeling of wanting to be tied into this common cause, this common goal, which is completely normal. And I think we're at a great spot. You know, I'd much rather be able to collaborate with the players than, you know, just stick to staff here, players there. But it's interesting. When I was a player, it was a good thing not to talk to the coach. If you weren't talking to the coach, you were doing something right. And now it's completely different.

21:58Gregg Berhalter:But I like where it's gone because I believe leaders have the responsibility to communicate. I think they have the responsibility to take feedback. And that's, to me, the sign of good leadership. You're able to listen and include people. So the interesting thing, we talked about this before, Greg, your godfather is Carl. Yastrzemski, who, for viewers who don't know that name, was one of the great, great, great baseball stars in the U.S. in the 1960s and 70s. I'm wondering if you ever had conversations with him about kind of big-time sports then versus now. You mentioned how social media has become something that people cope with.

22:42But have you ever compared with Yastrzemski or other people of that era, just how this world has changed in terms of how players need to kind of engage with media, with fans, then versus now? Is that any of this?