Are The New Premier League Finance Rules Fair?

0:01Hello and welcome to High Performance Business with Natalie Perks and Colin Murray because in the modern day sport is only half the story. Yeah, and our aim is to be that connection between the business and the sport and help everyone cross it together in an orderly fashion. And you know what? Once in a while, Colin, actually funny. A broken clock is right twice a day. Strike that. I'm not even funny twice a day. But I am very excited about our second subject today and I promise to take you with me in this if you're not a cycling fan. it's roughly about 14 years since Lance Armstrong was banned for life from cycling and I think maybe the most high profile case of cheating in sport of all time and we'll get into that a little bit later right now fast forward 14 years Taddy Boccaccio for me is probably the greatest cyclist there's ever been he's dominating the sport he's doing things that no one's ever done Eddie Merck's included but it happens at a time when cycling has disappeared from terrestrial TV coverage here and it's due to less people are watching.

1:01So I want to look at that. I want to draw that line over the 14 years, but also talk about the business of cycling. Could you be any more excited right now? Because 85 % of the money comes from sponsors. I hope you keep this enthusiasm level up for the next subject, which is financial fair play, guys. Profit and sustainability rules, PSR, has been replaced with two new acronyms, very sexy SCR SSR and all of you are now saying for sure yeah could we because this is the thing like when I'm in in the pub with my mates once a year or more likely when we're talking in WhatsApp groups or whatever and when this comes up we do understand it and we have to understand it but it's not a sexy subject and it there's a lot to take in because this is the thing of course if you're an Everton fan or a Leicester fan or a Nottingham Forest fan your club have been fined you've been deducted points.

1:57We have, of course, the ongoing case with Manchester City and all of those charges which they still vehemently deny. So this is a huge part of the footballing landscape and we need to understand how the business works in the biggest football league in the world. And I am so happy I'm doing cycling and you're explaining this. So can I just say... I've got sweaty palms. Look at that. You actually do. I do. I do. I'm sorry. Yeah, go. Right. It was called PSR. Yeah. It's now two very sexy acronyms. Are you ready? Yeah. SCR, squad cost ratio. Talk dirty to me. Yeah. And SSR, not a Beatles song, but sustainability and systemic resilience.

2:39She's getting hot in here. Sexy. So SCR covers all on-pitch spending, your players, your coaches' wages, your transfer fees, your agents, and that cannot exceed 85 % of the football-related revenue. By the way, UEFA's already called that quite generous because their rules are 70%. SSR is where clubs have to show they've got liquidity in the business. So essentially, they've got to carry less debt relative to their assets. By 2029, for every£100 of assets that a club owns, it can't owe more than 80 quid, right? Yeah. So if you've got a 100 quid house, you can't owe more than 80 quid on that house.

3:24So is the big change then, because as I understood PSR, that counted transfer fees, player wages, agent fees, stadium running costs, and general business expenses. So that didn't cover, by the way, building the stadium, training squad, etc., etc. I'm sure we'll get into that because this is probably about closing legal loopholes more than anything. So the change is more in relation to the total cost of your squad seems to be where it's changed. So PSR was a system where you couldn't suffer more than a 105 million quid loss across three years. Now SSR says, can you afford your own spending? SCR says, is anyone spending so much that this competition is becoming unfair.

4:13We'll come to whether that works. But essentially, SSR is you on a motorway, driving down the motorway, and your fuel gauge goes, have you got enough petrol? And SCR says, you might have your nice fancy Ferrari, Colin, but you've got to drive at 70 miles an hour like the rest of us. You can't drive at 180. Okay. So it's about trying to bridge that gap between the haves and the have-nots.

4:40The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at SoundItOutTogether.org. That's SoundItOutTogether.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. Thumbtack presents Tile Trouble. Every single time I use my sink, I make eye contact with the uneven grout of my kitchen backsplash.

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5:44And when we say the haves and the have-nots, football's at a state now, when actually it's the have-everything and they have quite a lot. And what I mean by that is I'm very, very careful about what I say when I say the elite clubs and the rest, because to me, everyone is an elite club, not in the forest of one, two European Cups. We're actually talking about the teams who have the deepest pockets. Correct. They aren't the biggest football clubs necessarily. They haven't necessarily won the most. And the criticism of PSR is that it cocooned the very top clubs at the top and didn't offer an opportunity for those who were sitting mid-table in the Premier League or getting promoted up to try and catch them.

6:24So my question to you, now we've got two different acronyms. Has that allowed, for example, Leeds United, to play catch up with Arsenal. PSR as the older model restricted the investment by ambitious smaller clubs, or shall we say not small, but less rich clubs, more than it restricted the spending by the already very wealthy clubs. So if you are a Forrest fan, an Everton fan, a Leicester fan, you mentioned, you know, they've been hit by these points deductions for breaking financial fair play. And you could rightly feel very aggrieved for that. And it is a really long-held complaint with that old system that it ended up punishing the smaller clubs.

7:07I'm putting my Joey air quotes in here. These magnificent clubs. Yeah, these, you know, nine times English champions Everton clubs. So Man City, if you think about Starbucks, right, they're the Starbucks in this scenario. I haven't tapped out yet. This is great. Right, okay, they're the Starbucks. They're the Starbucks because they've already built a financial advantage. So you open a coffee shop, a lovely little bougie coffee shop selling your little coffee from around the world, and it's lovely and it's niche. and you... Collins Coffee. Collins Coffee. Right next to Starbucks, okay? And you make a million a year and they make a hundred million a year.

7:41Yeah. But the bank says to both of you, you can only spend what you've earned, right? So clearly already they've got a huge advantage. They can open a hundred new branches. Yeah, they can stick in new chairs. They can put lovely posters up. But you can't do that yet because you haven't earned it yet. So that's where the sort of discrepancy and the criticism of that system was. But in this new system, it seems to bring maybe more stability to the overall financial system of the Premier League, but it actually doesn't significantly increase the potential for Everton to upset the monopoly. That seems to be where we are.

8:19Yeah, I think what they would argue is that it fixes the worst procedural problem, so retrospective punishment. So if you've had a bad year, three years later, you get punished for it because it was a three-year rolling thing. Whereas this time, if you have a bad year, you're going to get punished this year and then you can start on another foot. I mean, if you really want to get into the weeds of it, 85 % is where we're at, but actually they can go up to 115 because there's a 30 % allowance thing and they're going to bring that down each year. But I just don't think we need to get bogged down in it, if I'm honest, because it's so confusing and you've already glazed over.

8:52What you're saying is that it doesn't actually significantly help those clubs sitting around the mid-table of the Premier League to close in in the Champions League. We're still going to have the haves and the have-nots unless we see something absolutely spectacular through the academy systems, which is why football is a beautiful game. We get these moments that we absolutely can't believe have happened. But ultimately, it's about financial stability more than it's actually about closing the gap, correct? Correct. So I guess the question now is then why? What's this new system going to change?

9:23Well, I've got the list of things that annoy fans or help clubs that are richer. and they're all legal, by the way, within the sport. But deferred wages has been the topic du jour, hasn't it? This system doesn't change that. This is when players receive lower wages now and higher later. What happens is you buy a player at 80 million on an eight-year contract. That counts only 10 million a year in terms of your financial fair play. I believe that can be capped now at five years. So that's a change. Selling academy players, that still helps. That still changes the picture. Your player swaps. So for example, let me explain that.

10:00Podcast terms, you and I are not worth the same as Marina Hyde and Richard Osman, right? But we could pretend we are. So we could go onto the transfer market, the podcast transfer market, and someone could, we could swap, right? And another place could give us 30 million for you, right? We'll get 30 million for you. I'll take that, yeah. Another podcast, we'll give them 30 million. So that automatically rises the money, but actually nothing's happened. we've just handed each other 30 million pounds and that works really well. I think the main thing that's changed it is selling assets to related companies.

10:32That's mostly closed. So like this idea, clubs holding assets as hotels, stadium problems, all that's changed. So that probably is the bit where it slightly makes a difference. But by and large, it seems to me, and again, this is just facts, it's not shade, that these things can still happen. A lot of the things that fans go, well, if you can defer your wages, et cetera, et cetera, a lot of that by and large is the same. Yeah, they're not banned from selling assets to companies or clubs under the same ownership, but they can't now rely on those transactions to effectively artificially improve their position, which they were able to in the past.

11:09If you think about the fines and the point deductions and things that have been handed out in the past, I think a lot of the anger has come from the fact that clubs that do have the financial might of Manchester City, and we've quite rightly said they deny categorically all those charges, 130. But they've had the financial might to kick the can down the road or keep it going for as long as it currently is, right? Everton, it was a different situation. They admitted, put their hands up, said yes, and that made everything go a lot quicker. But they didn't have the sort of legal might, the financial might to keep going with that.

11:45So there's a very, very, very big difference. When people bring up Man City, it's a huge difference. The mountain of evidence that they've been wading through for the last two years is just not comparable. So it's almost apples and pears. I love the fact that on a quiet news day, most of the very big websites will put a story up that says, is a decision imminent and 115 charges facing Man City? And I'm thinking, oh, not much happening today. Is it just friendly games? I swear, last Easter, I was still sitting in a newsroom going, it could happen it's imminent it's really not absolutely so the question I would want to know if I was an Everton Nottingham Forest fan or a Leicester City fan is if SCR was in place instead of PSR the old system would we have avoided bans and point deductions and the answer is really frustrating because like everything when it comes to financial fair play you need PhDs they understand it and I'm not quite sure I'm there yet I understand more I understand more I don't think I quite and you've done your best, but I don't think I quite understand it all.

12:49But the answer is not necessarily. I feel like from reading through it, I get a handle on it would have been easier to avoid it. You wouldn't have necessarily done, but it would have been a system I think you could have worked in more fairly. So that's a step in the right direction for the clubs that don't have those limitless pockets and aren't able to use some of the legal loopholes that are there at the moment, which is almost more frustrating an answer than anything. There's no yes or no there. But yeah, you maybe could have. And, you know, that's probably the truth. I think to sum it up, it's like me in German class when I was much younger and my teacher said, the lady doth protest too much in one of my reports.

13:28And it was basically, they're trying their best. But is it going to really get her an A at A level? Not so much. Yeah, exactly. All right. Listen, there you go. PSR changes to SCR. And I don't think I'm left saying FFS anymore. I think I kind of think like when it comes up throughout the season, I'll have a little bit more of an understanding of it, but I don't think it's going to change the Premier League massively in terms of competition. When we come back, I'm going to take you through 14 years since Lance Armstrong was banned from word cycling forever. We're going to look astonishingly at a time when we have a cyclist who is probably the greatest there's ever been.

14:06Why has cycling disappeared from UK terrestrial TV? and also we're going to talk about just how unique the business of cycling is. So that's coming up when we come back.

14:20The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at SoundItOutTogether.org. That's SoundItOutTogether.org. Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. The most effective people at work aren't working harder than everyone else. They're working smarter inside better systems. Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammarly is the AI chat that works inside every tool you already use.

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15:23Welcome back, everybody. This is High Performance Business because the sport is only half the story. And our second chat today is about professional cycling. and you're very, very happy that you're just on the back of our tandem for this conversation after PSR and financial fair play. As we publish this episode, give or take a few days, a couple of weeks, it's 14 years since Lance Armstrong's absolutely fantastic fall from grace, a washing basket full of yellow jerseys, one of the biggest sports stars in the world with sponsorship deals coming out of his ears, his successful charity, his amazing story and he came crashing down to earth like very few sports stars ever have really if we think back to it from deity to doper and an entire era of a sport tarnished.

16:15What followed here in Britain was actually a golden era for British cycling with Froome and with Wiggins and we actually saw an increase in viewership to the Tour de France but over recent years it has declined in terms of terrestrial TV to the state that ITV didn't renew their rights this year. They're all on TNT. And as somebody who went to the Tour de France for the first time this year, who has a brother who is obsessed with it and tells me every single last detail, this isn't a news story. This isn't all about Lance Armstrong. But I think it's a good moment to pause and just have a really interesting conversation, Natalie.

16:51And to do that with us is somebody who you know and somebody who for decades and decades has written about cycling inside out. So he will not let us get away with any indiscretion at all. William Fatherinham has joined us. We're delighted to have you, William. How are you today? Very good, thank you. My brother said to me, Colin, just because you see record numbers of people riding bikes on the road to work and to the park and to the shop or whatever it is, that doesn't mean we have a culture of cycling in terms of professional sport. And he says, if you go to Spain, if you go to France, if you go to Belgium, it's entirely different.

17:28they're not looking for just success from their country it's entrenched into their actual sporting culture can you talk to me a little bit about that yes i mean the position is that we we don't have that history here um there are complex historical reasons as to why that is the case i'm not really going to go into that but that is our history basically that we are not like those mainstream european nations whether we're a nation of cyclists is a is a matter for debate really i I guess it depends whether you've been close past and made the finger to by a motorist that morning or not. If that's the case, then it probably doesn't feel like we're a nation of cyclists.

18:09I mean, the cycle industry is stronger here in terms of sales, I think, than it was. I think it got very strong during COVID. The reality is that it doesn't have that universal sporting culture that you have certainly still in Belgium and possibly Spain. In France, it's debatable because I think in France, it's declining as well, to be fair. The whole sport's in a complex state of flux, but the bottom line is that we don't have that same history that the other European nations do. Yeah, well, there's loads of cycling clubs, of course, and that becomes a community. It becomes a stop-off for a nice coffee and whatever.

18:45And I must tell you, William, and William would probably go, I know that group, but there's actually a group of musicians whose bands were probably at their peak in the 1980s who formed a cycling club. and they cycle all over the place, but Regions Park. And I remember walking through Regions Park one day and going, that looks like Martin Kemp from Spandau, Bali. And then the next one behind him, William, was like, I think that's the bass player from UB40. And they just kept coming past you. I don't know what you've heard, but they're huge cycling communities. No, I hadn't heard about that, but it doesn't surprise me.

19:17I mean, because the actual culture of people riding their bikes is pretty strong, but what it doesn't translate into is competition necessarily. that's the biggest, strangest phenomenon. We have lots of people who ride their bikes, but comparatively few who race their bikes. Natalie, you asked me so many questions about financial fair play, so I'm going to put you in the spot now about cycling. And then William can tell us this wonderful story, which is unique, I suppose, to any sport that takes place on the road, in public. You can't charge for tickets. So when I went to the Tour de France, my flight cost me money.

19:50Believe me, Sten and Alpe d 'Huez cost me money. but the tickets are free. How much money do you think comes from sponsorship in road cycling Tour de France well to Espana how much comes purely from sponsorship out of 100 %? Oh it's going to be high. Really high. 70? 85 % comes from sponsorship. It's so married into it but I have to say William I didn't feel over commercialised when I went. I felt more commercialised watching the World Cup than it was charging the astronomical ticket prices than I ever did when I was at the Tour de France. But talk to me about how that fuels the business of cycling because its starting point is sponsorship.

20:32Well, its starting point is people riding bikes. And it's interesting you mentioned Alpe d 'Huez because today the women's Tour de France is going up the Mont Ventoux in the south of France. And people riding their bikes up Mont Ventoux has basically spawned an entire local economy based on that fact that lots of people ride their bikes up Mont Ventoux when it's open, because they ain't open all year. For example, you have three photographers who only take photographs of people riding their bikes up out doors and make tens of thousands of pounds doing it. It's absolutely intriguing. But obviously what that doesn't translate into is sponsorship of professional cycling teams, unless some of those people who ride their bikes up at Mont Ventoux and have their photograph taken and get to the top and feel it's been a hugely rewarding experience some of those people want to invest in that sport and be part of that sport and that's that's where some of the money comes from i have to say how important is it that there's a british superstar to sort of for the general audience for the neutral here here to cling on to because i remember i mean the only time i've covered tour de France is when Wiggins was winning or when Froome was winning.

21:44It was huge. It was front page news. That was a big deal. And then it has dropped off. So obviously someone like me that's a fair weather friend of cycling, just rocking up and covering British success. That's quite important for a neutral, isn't it? Do you remember when the mirror said, tear off sideburns, so you tear off the sideburns and look like Bradley Wiggins Wiggomania was an astonishing thing so you're right I think if we are winning the Tour de France it does make a difference Gary Thomas winning the Tour de France in 2018 has that changed a huge amount? I don't know it's really hard to say the Tour de France is coming next year to the whole of Britain it's coming to Scotland, England and Wales and the women's and the men's are both starting in this country it's a it'll be interesting um to see what impact that has my fear is that the governing bodies in those three countries won't be able to you know people in get them competing get them racing their bikes i'm not sure that's i'm not sure they're ready for it you know it's it's interesting in terms of the development sport because obviously there was a peak in terms of the number of British professional cycling teams around the sort of peak of the Froome era.

23:04And then it's gradually declined since then. And now, you know, a number of British-based professional teams, there was a strong British calendar. And that's kind of faded. It's just kind of dwindled away very gradually. So I think it'll be interesting to see what happens next year when we have the tour again. We have currently stars in cycling, but they're not of the magnitude of Mark Cavendish, Chris Froome or Sir Bradley Wiggins. And I think, you know, to some extent, I think, you know, we kind of took them for granted when they were here. I mean, you know, possibly particularly Cavendish because his success was, it was epochal.

23:46I mean, it was absolutely, you know, what he achieved was quite incredible. And I'm not really sure what the legacy from that is, to be honest. I should say that, by the way, Mark Cavendish is one of the greatest sports stars of all time. If he watches or listens to this, I will wash your car for free for the rest of your life. He's an absolute hero of mine. And he's right. You look at the Yates brothers story is fantastic, but it hasn't really burst the bubble to you, I suppose, if we're looking at it as all as different case studies. in terms of the business of cycling there's just one other thing I want to throw in that which I didn't know until a few years ago because while sponsorship drives most of the money that comes in TV rights of course is important you've got merchandise and more straightforward advertising but you know when you see the route on the Tour de France they pay for you to go through their town or climb up their mountain because take Alpe d 'Huez, there was 180 ,000 of us in that mountain the pizza shop there's an amazing pizza restaurant on Al Juez with this amazing really full on loud family that run it you know try and get a table in there by the way you better watch your B's and Q's but obviously they're making probably six months of money in three days so it's about the local economy but you actually pay so that little oh we're going through this little town they'll have paid a fee for it to go through if you don't we're going round the outside so you're writing that you know these towns do pay to host the Tour de France.

25:12And they do so, as you say, because of the contribution that those travelling with the tour and to visit, to watch the tour make their local economies. But the other reason they host it is because they want to be seen on television. They want those beautiful images from the helicopter showing the countryside, showing the castles, showing the towns. And there is actually a, it's a well-known phenomenon that people watch the Tour de France in particular and then go on holiday to the places that are depicted on the tour. Just before we let you go, William, and it's really lazy to focus every time I ever hear a conversation outside of the cycling bubble.

25:50It often is about doping and cycling, and it seems to be held to a standard that no other sport has. But without a doubt, what we said at the beginning was true. William, which was the fall of Lance Armstrong, we maybe put Ben Johnson in the same level. But even then, I'm not sure, William. I don't think so, because Johnson wasn't dominating the sport every year all through for one month, and also didn't face the accusations that Armstrong faced and denied consistently for about six of those seven years. So I think when Lance fell, it was bigger than Johnson. The issue seems to be, for me, when I look at cycling at the moment, we have a guy called Tadi Bagaccia from Slovenia, who's won now five Tour de France.

26:37As people are listening to this now, he's on the wealth. trying to complete the series. And he is absolutely sensational, you know, to watch him as I was so lucky to be right at the point in the mountain where he was breaking the record for the quickest climb ever up Alcduez. The issue is, and the sadness seems to be, that I always hear like an assumption that the problem is completely solved with doping in sport or just presuming that extraordinary riders must be cheating. the truth is that widespread systematic doping and cycling surely would be close to impossible William if we didn't know unless there's something we don't know about unless there's some whole new way of doing it because with the passports, with the psychological profiles, with everything they brought in what's your take on that?

27:30it hurts me a little bit that we can't have a nuanced conversation about it and it always seems to be, you know, one extreme or the other. Difficult to have a level-headed discussion because the problem is we don't know, you know, and we didn't know, well, out of feeling about Lance, there was evidence against Lance, but the actual concrete knowledge didn't emerge for quite a long time afterwards. It is definitely the case, as you say, that it's harder to dope in cycling now. It must be, as you say, because of that panoply of measures. you know the culture has changed it's not it's not accepted anymore and there was a massive culture change in between about 2006 and 2009 I guess there was a real culture change at that point particularly when they brought in the biological passport but fundamentally because of that knowledge gap you just end up with your gut basically and that that is it's it's it's it's a problem that the sport will take a long time to get away from 14 years since since the well pretty much 14 years since lance's downfall and yeah i think the sport has moved forward quite a lot in since then but i guess that's the thing isn't it because so many people who don't watch the sport will know the name lance armstrong and they'll know what happened and i was reading that you know he thinks pogacar is the goat he said that himself and that he would wipe the floor with Armstrong from back in the day if they were you know racing at the same time but also he said that he was sick and tired of the quote same old bullshit that comes up every year that Pogaccia does well and you think mate that is some cojones when you are the architect of the bullshit in question because of what you did so how damaging is the spectre of Armstrong I guess is the nub of what we're trying to get to I think it's quite interesting to go back and actually remind oneself of just how bad it was you know and you can decide just how seriously you take what he says Listen William you're an absolute hero for coming on we thank you so so much you know what cycling's like you need a proper expert to guide you through and I really appreciate that and bless you thank you cheers thank you very much thanks bye brilliant all we need then is just a British yellow jersey that's all we need and I have to tell you you might be waiting a long time and just for just for the love of sport But Tali Pagatia is just sensational.

29:58So before every stage, there's what they call a caravan. And it's basically like a street parade that goes through the course. And it's like wacky races. It's like these things. So it'll be like the Derry Lee one and the Orangina one. That's all part of the commercial sponsorship. But they throw freebies into the crowd. So for like an hour and a half before the cyclists get to you, you're like catching cans of Orangina. and bucket hats and King of the Mountain t-shirt I got. I saw, because you think like, how much can you throw? Like, what's dangerous? They threw many cans of orangina, which I thought, that's a bit on the edge.

30:37But one particular sponsor threw whole packets of nuts. And we were with this Canadian couple and she was standing raised up a little bit. They had a strategy, low and high. And the guy threw it hard at the guy. It went too high. It smashed her in the chest. Everyone went, And I went up in the air and she just went, got it. And everyone cheered. And I hate that type of commercialism usually, but actually it was brilliant fun. And it was just an experience like no other. Except with a cheese board and a glass of wine and not paying for the ticket. The flight was a couple of hundred quid. And like you can rough it, you can stay a bit further away and cycle in, which loads of people do.

31:17And you're going to pay for accommodation. But I can't recommend going to the Tour de France enough. and I never thought I would be saying that. I'm already looking at next year. My brother already has a place, strategically placed near Ponte Preeze for the three stages that are going through the UK. And I'll be there for all three. I will. I can't recommend it enough. I've never covered anything as wild as the Tour de France. I've never scaled a fence before the Tour de France. And I've also stood in a little French grandma's front balcony to do a piece to camera. Couldn't speak a word of French.

31:50She can speak a word of English. she bought us lots of sandwiches it was delightful and what I thought would be the worst part of it I know what you're thinking at home because people said about Formula 1 and they pass you what 50 times or whatever it's like but I'm only seeing them for a bit it's just not like that the buzz when you first see the helicopter in the air that's filming them and you know they're coming the peloton's on its way and they're like if you get a good position yeah you can see them coming up and those who aren't winning who are coming at the back right you've got to stay ahead of one vehicle or you're out so they're coming when you get to that middle to the end of the pack, some of them stop and have a beer with the crowd.

32:25It's crazy. And when you're, the night before on every corner, and I'm not a party person, I was able to enjoy it away from the party, but Dutch Corner is playing all those mad Dutch techno tunes and they're all dancing. Then the next corner is all the Slovenian fans and it was a Welsh, Scottish corner. And it's just like such passion without the I grow is what I want from my sport now. Yeah. It's a good crack. As an adult? Yeah. Like, that's actually what I want from my sport. So I can't recommend it enough. But we are closed for business. And for the last five minutes, we always just chat about something from our lives.

33:00Where are you going? I would really like some advice on how to stop crying over strangers on the internet. I cannot go a day without seeing something on social media. It could be a wedding speech. It could be a baby. Yesterday, it was a dog who wouldn't move because his owner died. What is wrong with me? Do you know the monkey that wasn't accepted by its tribe and they give him a toy? I watched that once and it broke me. And I was like, I'm done. I'm not clicking in any more links. It broke me. If you feel sympathy for animals, you cry specifically more about animals than humans on the internet, it's associated with a feeling of loyalty, comfort, affection and acceptance.

33:44So if there's any of those situations you're dealing with yourself or wrestling with, that's what that is connected to. What was animals I wanted to bring up? Because we have recorded this episode with my dog buddy sleeping on the floor beside me. And I just thought it's a good time to just say that, like, there'll be people out there thinking about, should we get a dog? So I just wanted to say, first of all, it's a full-time job. It's not like you having two kids, but it's probably the closest thing to having a kid. And they cost a lot of money. So, like, just be careful about making the decision to get one.

34:13But the thing I really wanted to say is, if you googled how to look after a four-year-old kid, you're not going to get the answers for your kids. So there's some things about your breed that are really important, especially in the hot weather we've had. You've got to be really careful about bringing dogs out in the heat. Their paws can just burn in the tarmac. And it's horrible because you're locked indoors a lot with them. You can read about certain things, but believe in everything online says about your breed is like, well, Leos are like this. And Pisces, that's like that. I'm a Cancer, so I'm very trusting of anything you're saying.

34:45But the best bit of advice I just want to share I got about my dog was this. I was saying that my dog was doing this and a mate of mine went and he just said, there's no such thing as a bad dog. There's only a bad owner. Oh, it's true. And I was like, you know what? That's hard to hear, but you're right. Anytime I've got a problem with my dog, I think of exactly that. So it's your fault, essentially. Basically, we've ended this episode like we've ended almost every episode by confirming that it's my fault. Thank you very much for listening or watching High Performance Business. We really appreciate it.

35:16There was a lot to digest today. Hopefully we sort of bridged the gap between the sports fan and the business and it all made sense. If not, we'll try harder next time.