How do you make a deal with Gordon Ramsay? HexClad CEO explains

0:09Here's something I've noticed over the years. you realize that actually that was the turning point that changed everything for my guest today the co-founder of hex cloud one of the fastest growing cookbook brands on the planet danny weiner his moment happened in a car he was parked up phone in hand waiting for a call it just seemed like just another phone call in a world full of phone calls yet on the other end of the line a representative of one of the most recognizable men in the world a man who if he said yes to Danny could transform everything overnight. Welcome to the room where it happened.

0:52So Danny, in your case, it was less a room where it happened and more a car, right? Yes, it was. A slightly beat up, ready for, in the need of replacing Range Rover Sport. and that's when I had my first phone call with a member of Team Gordon Ramsay, who was Gordon's business manager. And it's a bit surreal. When you're in the cooking space, he's the Michael Jordan of cooking, right? It doesn't really get any bigger than that. And that one that he knew about our product was amazing. And two, that they were interested enough to have a conversation. So that was also surreal. In fact, I had to pull over.

1:46I was afraid the signal at my house wasn't strong enough to have this call. So I drove down the hill and parked in a parking lot to make sure I had four bars for the call. And what's going on emotionally and mentally for you at this point? And, you know, already at this point, like Hexclad had enjoyed some success. You know, it was already bigger than I thought it would be. But these moments, these opportunities were kind of peeking their eyes out where I'm like, wow, this could actually really be big. This is something bigger than just me being able to afford a nice car or buy my first home. So to have something like that, there was an exhilaration and a sense of, wow, what I've been saying is true.

2:46There's a level of vindication. I knew we had a great product early on when other people kind of either ignored it or laughed at it or just didn't get it. So then you go, I guess maybe I was right. so how do these conversations transpire like did you know that you were getting a call from gordon's business manager that day so very quickly it happened we noticed that gordon was following us on instagram and we're shocked so uh the gentleman who was covering social for us just said should i reach out i'm like yeah reach out so hey yeah do you have any of our pans You know, a couple hours later, yeah, Gordon has one.

3:29Great, can we send more? Yeah, send some more. And by the way, does Gordon have a cookware deal right now? I don't think so. I'll let you know. And it was like two days later, I had a call right through Instagram. We set up this time for a call and I called, you know, I don't remember if I called him or I waited for the call at this point, but, you know, I'm nervous. And, you know, we got on the phone. He goes, Gordon likes your pants. and that's it. She doesn't like stuff often and great. And he goes, look, I'll tell you about Gordon. He's very time poor. And I go, I can see it. He's everywhere, all over the world, all the time.

4:09He goes, he's time poor, but when he commits, he really commits. So if we do a deeper relationship, I mean, heck, you know, he's available if he likes your product to do a commercial and it'll be an expensive one-time fee and you can use that for one year or something like that. And I go, well, tell me about the other option. He goes, well, he'd like to be really involved. Okay, that sounds good. And he goes, yes, but let me tell you, if you get involved with Gordon Ramsay, you're going to get more than you bargained for. And I went, is that a promise or a threat? And he said, without missing a beat, he goes, both.

4:50And I'm like, let's talk about that option. I love that. And so how do you kind of work out how to play this? Because a lot of business people listen to the show and they often don't know in these big moments whether to go all in and go, we love Gordon, we want to do something, let's do it, or whether to play it cool or whether to play hardball or whether to be hard to get or whether to be easy to get. How did you work out what your approach would be for something this significant in your business journey? You know, these are really strange opportunities, and they always look different. And you're seeing more and more, say, celebrities doing more than just, you know, doing a Coca-Cola commercial.

5:32They're getting involved with companies in various areas of growth and being more involved in them. there are people that just want a bigger payday at the end. Then there's people that enjoy the idea of building something, getting their hands dirty. And Gordon falls into that because he's very passionate about business and he knows he can add value. So, you know, to other companies, I would say be very careful if you want to do one of these deals, because you got to make sure you're getting somebody that doesn't just get you eyeballs because they're famous, but that helps build your brand. It should make sense.

6:12In our case, it couldn't make any more sense. But you want somebody also that gets emotionally invested beyond just waiting for a residual check to come in. And for us, that's the case. I talk to Gordon all the time, at least every other week. And he wants to know sales numbers. He wants to see what's in the pipeline. He'll be like, get that new piece to me. I want to test it. I'm going to test it. I'm going to send it to some of the kitchens of the restaurants, have them test it. So, and he has suggestions for new product ideas. You know, he's very creative also. Like he'll rewrite a line and when we're doing, you know, either food content or he'll even make suggestions when we do a commercial.

7:01Would it be funnier if we did it this way? you know and sometimes he's right and we make those changes of course you knew none of this when you're on the phone that day um can you remember what day of the week was it when this call happened you remember that yeah i do i remember it was on a monday because it started it spiraled very quickly um i think you could tell we had then we had another call a couple days later. And, um, and I can't remember if it was the second or third call where I brought, um, my, my second in command of the company or president is a former attorney. And I'm like, well, maybe he should be on just, if we start talking any potential deal and he came on and, and the thing that was so great.

7:47And I've said this before, it seems so natural, which I was expecting it to be like very like attorneys, like slugging it out and like gladiatorial combat almost. But it wasn't like that. It was like, we can offer this. We'd like this. Hey, okay. We've, we're pretty close. Great. That's done. Moving on. And, and really within three, after the third conversation of talking basics, I think we saw a great path forward together. and we had, he's like, well, let's have a call with Gordon. And it's during the pandemic. So I think like the following Thursday, so the whole thing, this is like two weeks or so.

8:32You know, we scheduled a call because Gordon was in Cornwall at the time. And, you know, we were in LA. I think it was 8.30 our time in the morning. And, you know, and it's Zoom call time, right? Nobody's meeting in person. So I think I'm like, you know, I'm in sweatpants, but I put like a button shirt on. Just so you look good. Yeah, so I look good. So I look like, oh, this is a guy I want to partner with. So do you remember the final thing you thought about before the conversation started? Well, I thought two things. The first thing I thought was, do not fuck this up. That was the first thing.

9:10But believe it or not, as I was, like, I'm seeing, you know, a UK number come up on the phone was, I was like, I am so grateful to the universe for this. Like, even if this doesn't pan out like that, that we've gotten to this point because it was new. And I'll tell you, like, it's like when you're playing with house money, it's all gravy at this point. And I'm just like, thank you, higher power, because I'm just so grateful that I'm placed in this opportunity at this exact moment. I logged on and I just see that famous face, just right there. And he's like, Danny. And I'm like, Gordon. Yeah. And the two of us can be blabbermouths a little bit.

10:02We both can talk. And we just started talking about what we would do, what he thought of the product, what I thought of him. We had, I think, 30 minutes for the conversation scheduled. and we talked for almost an hour and 20 minutes. And it was stuff like I hadn't even thought of. He's like, I'm going to put it on my shows. I hadn't thought about asking for that. And he goes, we'll get it into the restaurants. We'll even try to figure out ways to incorporate it into table service. So you're like, great, great. And that's great too. Let's do them all. So do you remember what happened as soon as the phone call ended or what you thought?

10:40well well first like i know i'd been breathing but i felt like i hadn't been breathing so i went like you know that kind of exhale and deep breath but i was i was excited because i was excited for for two reasons which which were one it went well like you got off like And you could tell we were both excited for the next call. And the other part was I was exhilarated by their enthusiasm for it. So if they just wanted to do a deal because they're going to make a buck, I'd have been happy anyway. But it was a real enthusiasm for the product and what we were trying to build. So that was a great feeling as well.

11:34That validation right there. That is the stamp of validation. Yeah, it kind of is. What do you think is the secret to doing a great deal like the one you've done with Gordon? So you're seeing these more and more. And that's why I think the difference between when you hear a spokesperson and a brand partner. um like a partnership means you're together like kind of through thick and thin thin like your wife is your partner um very often the other type of celebrity relationship is like a paid spokesman that means i'm gonna you got me from 10 a.m to 3 p.m you better have my beef jerky and my M &M's there and tell me the lines and I don't want to see you until next year.

12:32That would never interest us. So we wanted to build a partnership just like you, a partnership with your wife, with your best friend, where in our partnership I'll do everything I can to help Gordon's restaurants or his TV shows. And on the other hand, he's like, and I'm going to put your products in my restaurants and I'm going to put them on on tv shows and he'll think of ways to incorporate us I mean he did the pre-game cooking segment at the Super Bowl right on Bourbon Street and he's like chucking sandwiches up into yeah but you saw the what he was cooking with he's like bring all the stuff so that's a true partnership and when you get partnership that's when you see incredible growth in a company like ryan reynolds with aviation gin very involved that's a partnership and that's why that became so successful going back to the the very first phone call yep it was it was early in the morning yes was that early in the morning probably late morning la time you know early evening uk so when you woke up that for that monday were you thinking like this could be a really significant day in my life You know, I'm trying to remember, you know, probably because I was willing to get in my car, drive down on a hot LA summer to go sit in my car in the sun in this parking lot.

14:02I probably should have been more nervous than I was based on what it turned into. And was there a moment during that first conversation where you actually went from thinking, listen, I might as well have this conversation because let's see, to where you actually thought, wow, this could be really exciting. Or was the flip true where it was like, this isn't really going the direction I assumed it would go? Well, you know, because I was new to this, I really wasn't coming in with a lot of expectations of what it was going to look like one hour from now when we finished. That's kind of, that's sometimes, you know, ignorance is bliss.

14:44You know, but especially when your ignorance is based and backed by hard work, a great product, you know, a tremendous idea of how we want to bring and introduce products to market. Then you kind of go, they'll see that and see that that's a kind of cool thing to be involved with. Or they'll just be like, let's talk about the check number. what's that number going to be we're writing on the check and that and that was never the case it was like we didn't even talk dollars um several conversations it was more like if we really believed in what we were trying to accomplish as a company then we'll be able to come to an arrangement and and that was probably what which was really good about it which you know i kind of take that approach now we have some great chefs around the globe that are part of our family.

15:44So I start treating them like friends first. You know, if they want to say, oh, talk to my agent, I'm like, I don't want to talk to your agent. You know, they're going to just screw up the deal. Why don't we find out if we got a crush on each other first? And if we do, we'll be able to make something work. See, I think in life, when we first start out and our ego is flying, we're like, talk to my agent, talk to my representative. I mean, you trained as an actor, right? I bet you couldn't wait to get your first agent because you feel like you've made it. But I'm in my 40s, you're in your 50s and we both sit here now knowing the single most important thing in life is personal relationships and if it was like this deal was built on a personal relationship not a business relationship am i right you know i think every important relationship we've had in our business is based on personal relationships and sometimes that means i have to fly halfway around the world for a meeting.

16:39And I'm willing to do it because I want that person to know how important it is to me. I mean, I went to Australia twice last year and I have actually only spent a little over 42 hours in Australia. You know, I went there once for a lunch event and then one other time for a different meeting. And I just didn't have the time. I'd love to tour Australia. Just timing was bad, but I'll tell you what, if I show up, it resonates differently than if I send a beautiful gift and show up on Zoom. There's something else you've said, which I think is really important for people to understand. You said when the two attorneys got together, when the legal stuff happened, it wasn't like a boxing match.

17:24It was almost more of a chess match, right? It's like, how's this going to work out? And I think great business deals, everyone wins, right? Yeah, or they win, but they usually lose a little bit, right? Both people should walk away feeling like they got something, but something hurts. Then if just one person's hurting, that's not a good deal, and that's not the way you start a partnership. It's kind of like when you met your wife, right? You're like, honey, 100%. We're spending all the holidays with my family, and we're all doing this. No, you've got to figure out. It's got to hurt. you got to deal with your father-in-law a little bit, right?

18:01I'm interested in Gordon's approach to business. Like when you finally managed to get a Zoom call with him, was the deal done? Or was he going to sort of have the final say? Oh, no, he was, it was far from done because we had those, you know, we had these conversations. We started at the end of the summer of 20 and we didn't finalize our deal until 10 months later in like June of 21. Right. So, you know, I think we realized by November, yes, we wanted this to work. Then, you know, the lawyers do whatever they can to try to fuck it up. Am I allowed to swear on this? Absolutely. Yeah, I swear a bit too much.

18:46You know, sadly, that's just the way it gets sometimes with lawyers. And we're like, wait a minute, it's fine. I go. And there was a level of trust. And, you know, when Gordon's business manager said, you know, you're going to get more than you bargained for. Like, I believed him. And that, because what that meant, you know, was, yeah, if you want the type of deal where on May 5th, Gordon has to be at a grand opening of your pop-up for sure, that's not a deal that we can do. but if you tell us like oh wait gordon's filming in new york city area in july he's got a free night and let's create some cool event around it you can do that stuff that then we're good and you'll do more of that and that was it he's like we'll give you more if you could be flexible and And I'm like, we're a smaller, nimble company.

19:48Flexibility is our middle name. So that type of flexibility, I think, sometimes scares the attorneys. Because if that's not written in, they feel like they haven't protected you properly. And was there ever a point where you were fearful that the attorneys would fuck it up? Not really, because ultimately, you can just go, stop. You know, just like somebody who's tired and a divorce, and they go, just give them what they want on this topic and let's move on. So it was rather amicable and maybe that was frustrating to the lawyers. I think they want a lawyer. They're like, we could have given this to a paralegal to do.

20:36You know, I think that some business decisions are calculated, right? It's all about the numbers. Others are just a leap of faith. And Danny had built a business that now had the biggest name possible attached to it. Not just endorsing his product, but a genuine partnership to try and build and grow this business even further. But I think in truth, Danny had no idea how far this was going to go. In fact, it was about to take him to the single biggest television audience on a single day in the world. A cookware company making pots and pans that started in a garage was going to the Super Bowl. well let's talk about arguably the most famous thing that you've now done with gordon which is the super bowl halftime ad i think the first thing is how do you even end up getting an ad on the super bowl you know that was one of the most terrifying things you do because you make these decisions these gambles and and they kind of are they're like you know you see you go on instagram you see somebody walk in they film it and they're like watch i'm going to put 150 000 and pounds on black on the roulette table.

21:42Oh, well, next time, you know, and this is like that times 100. We'll carry on the conversation in just a moment. But first, if I asked you to picture AI in action, I reckon you'd think of a large language model or something that you think optimizes your own personal productivity. But have you stopped to think about the impact that AI actually has on the big industries, industries like aviation, manufacturing, construction, and energy, The kind of businesses that we interact with every single day that rely on AI without us even being aware of it. Let's take manufacturing, for example. Get this, 200 billion packages a year are sustainably produced and distributed by the world's leading manufacturers using IFS.ai.

22:26Industrial AI is IFS.ai. I've been working with IFS for years. I know them really well. I've seen the impact up close and personal, and I'm so proud that they're partnering with Room Where It Happened on this show. And if you're like me and your business deals with assets and you want to deliver the very best class service to your people and your customers, please check them out at ifs.ai. Proud partners of Room Where It Happened. And one thing that I'm proud of and it was exhilarating was in the spring of last year, Fox and Studio Ramsey Global bought a minority share of HexCod. So it was great.

23:08And people went like an entertainment company buying a durable goods company. It didn't make sense, but we felt it made sense because we feel it's a way that they can enhance our presence. they also are involved in a company that's profitable and growing and they offer opportunity for the brand to grow now i want to be very clear they did not give us a super bowl ad a couple people asked me so was that throwing it no no no that those aren't untouchable we didn't get a discount we paid the rack rate for it so we had an opportunity like anybody else the thing we needed to do is we had to get the most juice from the squeeze.

23:55You know, Anheuser-Busch comes in and they do a fun commercial with Post Malone and Eli Manning and all they have to do is be fun. We all know. We all know Bud Light is, right? It's, and, you know, or Pepsi has a bunch of commercials. Like we all know what they are. We knew that a lot of these people had never heard to hexclad. So we had to be clever. So we had to come up with one thing. We could try to be salesy in it, which doesn't really work in the Super Bowl. They had to know we were a cookware company. And we had to tell them there's a differentiator that they need to look into it. And what it is, is this is a frying pan that's so advanced, it had to be developed by aliens.

24:40so it took place at area 51 and Gordon Ramsay the aliens have invaded and they they're foodies and you know he has to he has to cook for these foodie aliens and I love his line reading because they go yes and apparently they're foodies and he goes yes foodies the worst look just to help people listening and watching this what not the specific numbers but the rough kind of numbers that you have to commit for a Super Bowl ad is what sort of thing So probably I would say this. I won't give you the exact number. You cannot do a super bowl ad. Buying the ad and producing it for under, I would say,$9.5 million.

25:30So can we go into the room where you finally went, okay, we're going to spend the best part of$10 million on an ad. Yeah. Where was that room? So I was actually, when I made the call, I was sitting in the kitchen in my apartment in New York. And I'd done a call, another call with Fox. You know, they're going to give you metrics. And they're going to make it seem like a great deal, right? But what it came down to is, you know, we do advertise on television, both connected and linear television. The fact is, linear television is dying. People download stuff, then they skip through the commercials, and where are opportunities to get new eyeballs through that opportunity?

26:24Really, it's sports because it's live. Yeah, you can record it, but you want to watch it live. How many times have we all accidentally heard the score on our way home? Like, nobody talked to me, Or your friends are texting you and you're like, so, and if you could do it in sports, where is the greatest audience in the US for it? It's the Superbowl. So we tried to go like, we don't think we're going to lose here. Worst case scenario, when we really assessed it, we go, this is a break even for us. From the amount of eyeballs we get, the amount of people that we're putting in the funnel. and how can we show up afterwards for this?

27:07You know, one of the things that we weren't expecting, which is very new, is now people are taking us in a much more serious way. Like there are a lot of people that want, they want to do stuff with us. You see, I wonder whether when you make a big call like that, and is it as simple as you are on that call and you do have to sort of either put up or shut up? You have to make a commitment at some point, don't you, to go for this Super Bowl ad? Yes. And it's quick because already, like by the day, they're selling ads. Like if we wanted the first ad during the first quarter of the second commercial break, that's gone already.

27:52And if you want the first ad, you pay more than the second, third ad. The most expensive ad is the first ad going into the break. And the second most is the last ad. You know, in between, people might be getting a beer, using the toilet. And what we did was we looked at that. And if it's a great game, yeah, if it's 28-28, middle of the fourth quarter, those are the best ads you can have. I mean, nobody is leaving. I thought that was too risky. I said to myself, they're due for a blowout. It hasn't happened in several years. The games have been too good. But let's not risk it. Let's try to get in the first half.

28:36And we did what was called the first floater ad. So the floater ad is an unexpected ad. Usually, I would say it would be an injury. Somebody gets hurt, so now we got to go up. In our case, it was an unexpected touchdown. The Eagles defense intercepted the ball, ran in for a touchdown, and played the floater ad. And so I think people were so excited. They were talking about, did you just see that? These commercials starred and the Hexglad ad runs on. So I think we got the most bang for our buck. And how do you have the courage of your convictions or the belief to decide to make a gamble of this amount?

29:19What's the secret to that you'd like to share with people? I am incredibly naive. I mean, there's a part of that. I am so used to, in this Hexclad journey, of making gambles on first myself, then on the company's behalf. And them turning out. You know, nobody believed in us when we started. started, we tried to raise money and people looked at this pan with hexagons and they're like, I don't get this. I'm like, yeah, because it's new. What was the lowest point trying to sell what you were about? So, yeah. So there were two things they hated when we went in front of people. We had a new technology that was unproven.

30:16So they're like, that's always risky. the other thing was we went to them with with the marketing strategy they hate it because their question to us would be well how how are you going to get shelf space like in the u.s like in places like bed bath and beyond uh how are you going to get shelf space at williamsonoma and i'm like ha ha we don't want shelf space we're going to be the first direct to consumer cookware brand like wait a minute people don't buy cookware that way i'm like no they don't yet but that's we're going to cut out the middleman we're going to control the whole thing and they're like thanks for coming by please here we'll validate your parking now um and that happened over and over again and i mean one is as bad as we got laughed at by like the youngest guy in the room is laughing at me.

31:08And I'd raced across town and my air conditioning broke in my car. So I show up, I'm a sweaty mess. And I run up there and like, I'm there like 10 minutes and it's like, they're like shuffling paper. Oh, hexagons and wait, you don't want to be on the store shelves. Yeah, okay, thanks for coming by. And then I just see the smirk on the junior member's face. How did that feel? Well, part of it, like, I was like, I was a little hurt because I don't like when people are treated unprofessionally. You know, you could be not interested. It would be like, you know, you go on your first date and you just look and go, oh, you don't look like the picture.

31:57Bye-bye. Or you can say there, have a coffee, enjoy yourself, learn about them a little bit. And, you know, a smart person will go, okay, maybe this guy is a serial entrepreneur. And we don't like this product. But he might have something great in a year from now. Now, I mean, I'd never do business with them. I will tell you, like, I am, and whether I include this, I'm not a hold a grudge type of guy. So, like, is there just a millisecond where I go, like, would I like to know that young guy, like, is seeing this right now? Yes, but it's like no ill will. And it's more like just a nudge. Like, listen.

32:37And you know what? And he did a great favor for me. Because whatever he did, he made me buckle down, made me work harder. And Cole and I retained the whole company. We never took on an investor. So that means I could do whatever the hell I want. Any crazy idea that popped into my brain, I had the right to do it. because I wasn't beholden to some private equity or VC money. And that's liberating because I hate to do this, but like scoreboard, right? What we've done has worked well. And I don't know. Everybody thinks they're a genius, I found. Every private equity banker who never started a company seems he knows how to run my company better than me.

33:31but, you know, we're the ones doing a Super Bowl ad. And how do you feel when you reflect on that and just a few years later, there you are at the Super Bowl? I mean, can you even see your own ad when you went to the Super Bowl? So how does that work? Like, you can't even see your own advert. No, you can't. So, you know, they'd given us tickets, Fox. So Cole, my co-founder, and I, we were in the one end zone. So we had, people are looking at us because we have, we're clipping iPhones. We had three iPhones going. We have one with our, we run hexclad.com. It's a Shopify on the Shopify platform. So we've got up like how many visitors on there.

34:11And then we have two different feeds of the commercial. And we're waiting and we're waiting. And we finally had to tell our neighbors because people are like, you guys aren't even enjoying the game. We're like, listen, we have a Super Bowl ad. No big deal, guys. We just got one of our ads for the business that we co-founded, about to run during the Super Bowl. You know, we've risked everything for this. Yeah. Just a bit of that. So the ad comes on. Yeah. And we have our, you know. But did you know? Because it was like a spot ad. You didn't know when it was coming. No, no. That was the hardest part.

34:43Like, we couldn't really, like, lose our focus. There were no bathroom breaks. because if you know it's coming, oh, second break of the second quarter, I could be out and about the whole first quarter. But you never know if somebody's going to sprain an ankle and that's when it kind of shows up. And so, you know, so we watched patiently. And then like we each get within minutes, like 40, 50 texts, friends. We didn't tell a lot of people in our lives that we were having a Super Bowl ad. And then we watch what happens on our website. So we more than 20x'd our normal traffic. And, you know, we've been told mixed things because the game is going on.

35:30It's not like everybody's going to stop and go, oh my God, I got to get that frying pan right this minute. You know, it is like we're watching how the next few weeks play out after that. But it was amazing for us to see, you know, tens of thousands of people to show up on the website. it. You know, I think in many ways, looking forward is a bit too easy. It can be tempting to get excited, to dream big, to wonder what might be the next big victory around the corner. Because in business, there's always another goal. There's always another challenge. There's always another risk to take. But I also think at some point, it's really vital to stop and look at the journey that you've been on.

36:06And for CEOs like Danny, who are constantly thinking about the next win to stop and actually look at the setbacks the near misses the people the highs and the lows I think it's really valuable because also it means he has to ask himself what have I learned along the way what has changed about the business and about me and what actually is the cost of this kind of success and as our conversation drew to a close Danny started to reflect on that journey the lessons the losses and the unexpected reality of finally getting exactly what you worked for I'll let him tell you more Danny, it's such a pleasure to have these conversations because people don't get to be in these rooms whether it's the Range Rover where you're speaking to Gordon's business manager whether it's the first time you Zoom Gordon Ramsay whether it's making the call to go with the Super Bowl ad whether it's sitting in the stadium watching the ad or right at the very start of your journey gambling everything you own to try and create a business where you were also in a room where you were laughed out of the room it's an incredible journey it's inspiring for a lot of people what's the biggest lesson you've learned along the way i i hate to use a lot of the old you know oh work hard and you know don't believe in yourself don't give up no i would say this question yourself at every turn being critiqued in a difficult way is the best thing and go to people a lot of people are going to lie to you just like you know we you we'll all put on a shirt that our friends are like, what the fuck is he wearing?

37:38But you don't tell, right? You got to find those people that are going to tell you like, buddy, I think you're, you know, this is not the path. And, you know, when I've done that, where I've done something in business where afterwards, my friend was like, yeah, I didn't think that was going to work. I'm like, well, are you my friend or not? Tell me. I may not listen to you. You might not be able to, but I might. What if I change something in my approach then? And maybe I would have been successful then. So the thing is to take that hard criticism. Yeah, you have some confidence, but really look in the mirror.

38:15People look everywhere. When things go wrong, you know, I got to find the reason. They lift up the couch cushion or check in the cabinet. Where they don't look is in the mirror. That's the most painful place to look, right? Because all the answers are probably right there. So you got to be willing to do that and do it consistently. And where does the bravery come from to do it? because you were an actor. Like most people would in their brains go, well, I can't possibly create a cookware brand because I'm a trained actor, right? I'm not an expert in this space. What would you say to people who have that fear?

38:49I would say this. At 15 or 16, you come up with plan A, okay? I'm going to play in the NBA. Almost no one's, you know, plan A comes true, right? Nobody lays there as a kid going, oh my God, someday I hope I can sell nonstick cookware to get people. They don't lay in bed dreaming that. So I would say to someone, whatever you're trained for, you're not, if you're smart and hardworking, always have a plan B and then have the wisdom to know when it's time to move into plan B. I've got friends that have done it and God bless them, they're successful. I have friends who are stubbornly hanging on to plan A that they're the only ones who realize that plan A is dead.

39:40You can learn a lot about business. You can learn about selling. We do this every day in our lives. And when you develop that skill, when you can sell your story or your dream to someone better than I sold it to those private equity companies, or there's VC funds. But we do it every day. You do it even when you got to get your friends to go to the restaurant you want to go to. You got to convince them that this is why they're going to come because they're going to have to pay 80 quid, right? They're shared at the end of the meal. So you take those learnings when you develop that skill set and then go find out what you need to know to be successful in supporting that idea.

40:24and it's never been easier. You've got a phone, you've got an iPad, you've got a laptop. There's so much to be learning there. So get the fuck off the TV at night, open it up or have the TV in the background and tell you I'm gonna learn something about business that day or I'm gonna learn something about Merck. I didn't know how to import steel 15 years ago. Now you and I can haggle about steel prices globally all you want, I'm ready to go. You'd win. and the final question sure the hidden cost of this kind of life oh you sneaky bastard you

41:05that is probably the hardest thing anybody has to has to figure out and I've probably been bad about it I will say the first few years was 16 hours a day, six days a week, and then maybe four or five hours on Sunday. And that's kind of just the way it is. Maybe it could be a little better.

41:35You know, I had an advantage. I was single with no kids. So I'm only destroying my own life and my own health, et cetera. Hopefully you have somebody in your life to help monitor it, who supports what you're trying to do, but then says, hey, close the laptop today and let's go on a bike ride. Or close this, you know what? We're going out to dinner tonight. Because it can damage relationships. People who love you will get that you're trying to do something. Something that could benefit them as well if it gets successful enough. But a lot of the people in the middle don't realize it, then one of the most uncomfortable things, and I actually talked to Gordon about this because I didn't really become successful until I was in my 50s.

42:32I always did well, but I really became successful later is when you get those people where maybe you've misjudged the friendship or the relationship and they are willing to sacrifice 10 years, 20 years, 30 years of friendship to take advantage of the success that you've got for yourself. And whether it's borrowing money and disappearing or, you know, coming to, oh, I hear, do you have a vacation home? Is it available? You know, or like just people shamelessly asking for free product as if it doesn't cost money. Um, and, and then if you can't do it, like you're, you're dead to them. And that's very hard because I, I haven't, it hasn't happened a lot, but I have had people, friends disappear because maybe they felt that I owed them or that I should be doing more for them or maybe I should be a mind reader and know that I should have done it.

43:41It's not like I even said no to them. That's something that was hard to get used to. And that hurts your feelings. And what you do is then you kind of focus on the people that support you and love you, whether you're successful or whether you're poor. so I think the final thing really is this connection between the guy that sat in the car that day taking the very first phone call from Gordon Ramsay's representative thinking this could be an exciting thing for Hexrad then the guy sitting in the stadium watching his own ad during the Super Bowl I just wonder whether the guy in the car ever believed that would happen and actually whether the guy in the stadium recognizes the guy that was in the car that day you know i'll tell you and that's not to kiss your ass that's a a great question you know i'll even throw in one more car when i got in the car with the broken air conditioning after getting laughed at at that meeting because it was three just i couldn't afford to have my air conditioning fixed because i needed to buy boxes for the cookware that guy definitely would recognize the guy that sat in the parking lot talking to Gordon's business manager.

44:55And that guy would recognize the guy sitting in the Super Bowl because all of it, what it had in common was I believed in the product. I believed in my work ethic too. And I believed in our ability to bring a great product to people that they were going to love. So that was my fallback whenever I got sad or frustrated. And then when I sat, luckily, with my business partner, who was not day-to-day anymore but still one of my best friends, he and I just sat next to each other and knowing look, and we gave each other a hug. And that hug was just like, we believed in each other when nobody else did.

45:53And so that was nice. I'm glad we were able to share that moment together. And we're now a few years down the line since the Gordon Ramsay Hicks Club deal was done. I'm interested in the biggest lessons you've learned from him and the way that he operates, his work ethic, his approach to business, his approach to life. What I love about Gordon, he's always prepared.

46:16like we just did an event. We were, he and I were in Vancouver, Canada on Saturday. We did this brunch event. You know, he wants to know who's going to be there. I mean, they're all starstruck. They all want a picture with him. He could like phone it in and just be like, what's your name again? You know? No, he like knew that there were business leaders there. He knew which press he, he, when he got there, He's like, it's a good guest list. I'm like, I go, it is. But he looks at it. So I learned like, you know, there's no phoning it in ever. I mean, naturally, I'm a hard worker. But will I look at an opportunity and go, hey, that one, I don't need to maybe kill myself at it.

47:00No, I approach it like this. If Gordon's there, I have to know what's going on at least as much as him. Maybe I try to know it better. My best quality is also my worst quality. it's I am loyal to a fault. And the problem is the to a fault part. Gordon's very loyal as well. In that, I think one as a businessman has to learn the to a fault part. And the minute it becomes to a fault, you've got to make a change. There can't be a third or a fourth, you know, time you let somebody get away with something. When does that cause a problem for you then in your life? Well, listen, you know, we all have the ones where we've forgiven friends who are just, I think the most overused word right now is toxic with stuff.

47:50These aren't toxic people, but when the power dynamic or let's say the energy dynamic is getting farther and farther on their side, so they're sucking your energy up and not providing energy back, that's when you got to move on. You know, because those people, those are like the people that never learned to swim very well. And now you're all out floating in the water. And guess what? The drowning man is going to take you down eventually. So those are opportunities both in business. I've tried to help people succeed. There's a bit of ego in that too. It's not wholly because I'm just such a nice, honorable, loyal guy.

48:34I am loyal, but also I always look at in business, did I fail this person? Are they not succeeding because I didn't manage them the right way? I didn't give them the tools to succeed. And then I have to look at it and go, no, I did. And in that case, we probably need to separate. And luckily, as I changed my perspective on that, we barely had any turnover. at HexCloud, which is actually the thing I'm most proud of because people love working there and they stay. This reflecting is lovely, by the way. It's an important thing to do, though, in business. I think everyone looks forwards and very rarely looks back.

49:16Listen, just show, you know, we learn so much there. You've got to reflect, but you can't live in the past, right? Well, listen, you've been successful. You are successful. It's a pleasure to have the conversation, and thank you so much for taking us into not just one room, but multiple rooms where amazing things have happened and you are a beacon of light for people who want to create a product, take it global, work with big names and do great stuff. I appreciate it. Thanks so much. Danny. That was great. Thanks, man. I love that. So there you go. The story of Hexclad and Danny Weiner and the room or the car where it happened.

49:52The moment that Gordon Ramsay agreed to come on board that eventually took them to the Super Bowl and what's still to come for them? We'll have to wait and see. But I think with the way that Danny is leading that business and the energy he still has for being successful. I think exciting things are ahead. Thanks so much for joining us. You've just been in the room where it happened. So there you go. You have been in the room where it happened in partnership with IFS. And if you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe to the show. You can also follow us on Instagram and be the first to get the brand new episodes.

50:26See ya.