How The Grand Tour & Clarkson's Farm Were Born | Andy Wilman

0:01And then Amazon did that thing of, okay, just make the specials and we'll give each of you your own solo project. So they said, you know, what do you all want to do? And Jeremy went, I fancy life on my farm. And Amazon were like, great. And their faces were, oh, fuck. But I got a few calls from Amazon execs going, can you talk him out of that one? What were they worried about? That it'd be boring. But it is boring. That's why it's unbelievable. I know. That's why it's the greatest television show of this century. Because it's boring. today Andy Willman the powerhouse behind some of the biggest TV shows in the world from Top Gear to the Grand Tour to Clarkson's Farm he is the executive producer that created those shows and today he takes us inside the world of the big big deal the biggest deal in his life when he Jeremy Clarkson James May and Richard Hammond had walked away from the BBC and they walked to the door of Amazon brought to you in association with IFS This is the room where it happened with the man behind the biggest shows on TV, Andy Willman.

1:11A room that is symbolic, knowing what this podcast does. I'd say it was the room where when we first signed our deal with Amazon, we are then like in corporate America and that's going to involve rooms, you know, that's going to involve meeting rooms. And that's symbolic of we're going to have to now start talking to people in a way that we've never spoken to people before. Because if I've said the BBC just leaves us alone to it, this is now, we're with corporate America. We don't know what we're doing there. So before we get to the room, when we sign our deal with Amazon to make the grand tour, we kind of they paid us a lot but we were like so busy looking at all the noughts on the check that we don't look at the other numbers which is like in the next 12 months you must have 12 shows shot and on air in a new show that is like conceived put together created fully that is spiritually close to Top Gear and then here's the kicker but without getting sued right And that's the little tiny detail where you go, oh, Jesus, okay.

2:29That is going to involve a lot of sitting in rooms, that kind of thing. So the first thing they want is, what's your ideas for how is this show going to be like Top Gear but not be like Top Gear? So our lawyer said, well, you can still do things like have a place. You can't copyright having a place, but it can't be a hanger because you had a hanger. So we go, okay, we need that hanger. I'm going, shit, but we don't want to go in a TV studio because we knew that was never going to work. Jeremy then, next time we see him in the pub, he goes, guys, I think I've cracked it. He goes, last night I was watching True Detective.

3:08And he went, there's this episode where they have this, like, a religious meeting, like, deep south religious meetings. And he went, and they've got a tent frame up. There's, like, canvas, some poles, people underneath it. We do that. he goes we build a tent and that's like our tent and we take that around with that we can then go to different places our studio is not in the same place every week we can, we'll be literally ground touring and we were like could be a name we'll think, you know, we'll put that to one side he went yeah, could be ground tour yeah but we take this tent so very quickly we're like studio director, cameramen we start talking to everyone and they're like Jeremy it's not just we've watched that episode it can't be like that you've got to have a flat floor for the cameras to wheel across soundproofing, it's not those little poles where's all your equipment go and Jeremy's like that impatience he's got with that whole how hard can it be kicks in, he's like it's going to be fine stop worrying, stop worrying and we're like no we have to worry because it's not what you've seen on telly anyway Amazon execs are flying over from LA for their first big meeting with the four of us to ask what ideas we've got for our new show.

4:25So we go over there, and there's four of us, and Mark, our main lawyer. And we're going up in the lift, and Amazon want to know what our thoughts are, and Mark says to Jeremy, do not mention your tent idea. And we're all, the three of us are going, Jeremy, don't mention the tent. And he's like, it's a good idea. And we're like, no, no, no. Like Mark says, there's no budget for it. It's not been costed, nothing. It could cripple us. It could absolutely cripple us. Because the deal was, Amazon gives us a chunk of money, we make the show, and then what's left over we keep. It was the simplest deal in the world.

5:00Right. So we were like, we were going to make a good show, but, you know, he was going, this could cripple you. Did you guys get involved in the nuances of that deal? Or did you just hand up... Because at this point, this is more than just another BBC contract. Yeah, we did. We got involved in the nuance of it. First one was editorial control. like we were a licensed show so Amazon can't stipulate or complain or whatever about what we deliver them they have no editorial say that doesn't happen anymore because they own every show and like with the farm we have to deliver cuts of the show who owned the IP of the Grand Tour?

5:37We did so it was like the only deals that were done like that with Amazon and they were like but like I say they needed to go with a big show to get going so we were in the driving seat. Anyway, Mark's going, do not mention that tent. We go into this vast boardroom meeting room and there's four or five execs from LA, us four. I do not know why to this day quiches everywhere. There's just loads of quiches that hospitality booked and laid out thinking maybe British people like quiche. I don't know why because it was that mid-afternoon. So we're all a bit nervous, and I was like to James, you start on the salmon quiche, I'll do the quiche Lorraine.

6:23And then I was like, Richard, you hit the spinach, and Richard's like, I've had lunch. I'm like, fuck off, just eat some spinach quiche. Get into it. So we're all chomping away. Awkward silence. And then one of the American execs goes, so you got any ideas for the show, how it might look? And I was like thinking, just let this ride now. Let this ride. we just have the awkward silence they'll realize we haven't got any ideas but we'll get something surely at some point awkward silence goes on i'm looking at jeremy that man abhors silence and a vacuum more than nature he hasn't got any quiche in his mouth and i saw him go and you're like oh no no no no no no no because it's been the silence has been too long you see him drawing breath and he goes and you're like trying to stop him and he goes i was watching true detective you're like oh for fuck's sake no no no and then off he goes with the story and they love it obviously they absolutely love it they're like this is fantastic idea so you take this tent you build it and there's no going back so right then we've got our spinal tap stonehenge moment right there and we can't get out of it so and sure enough the building of this tent then has to be the construction of the creation of it has to happen and we're like to take this around the world and there's got to be two of them because it's got to be like that rock and roll tour system two stages leapfrogging it's got to be all that so your big fear here is cost right i mean you don't dislike the idea of a tent we don't dislike the idea but we're like shit it's gonna clean us out.

8:00Because we don't know how much we're going to spend. But we're thinking, this is the last big job we'll ever get. You know, the Grand Tour. It's the last big job. So we could make some money now. What's on our minds? We knew we were going to make a good show. I mean, that big opening was two and a half million we spent on that. The big opening in the desert. So we were not scared of spending. It feels two and a half million quid well spent. Well, that was on the screen, yeah. Whereas a tent. So, we were like... and I said to the producer who brought all the budgets together and everything, I said, do you think we can do this for two million quid?

8:35And he looked at me and he went, yeah. And I thought, you lying prick, but I'm asking you to lie. The psychology, we're all asking you to lie. And he's like, yeah. And I was like, okay, press the button on it then. So we get our two tents, we do a whole series going all over the world with them. And at the end we're like, it's going to be three million, it's not going to be two. and it was 5 million. The bill was 5. At which point we look at the contracts and go, does a first class show need a tent that goes everywhere? I don't think it does. I think we'll just put it up in Oxfordshire and leave it there.

9:125 million. Yeah. For the crowd tour tent. So that was our room where our kind of ambitious future was shaped. Then we would have to keep going back to that room because the whole issue about legal, what was legally right and what was legally wrong for where we were safe with the Grand Tour. And this is very interesting for me because you... Me too. You are a TV producer. You're a creative. You're a guy that wants to sit in the edit. And now we're becoming lawyers. Now you're becoming lawyers. Now you're becoming businessmen. Now you're becoming production managers. Now you're becoming finance officers.

9:48I mean, we start slow. Hammond goes down to Ryman's to get the wall planners and stuff. and he comes back and we're like that's last year's wall planner mate and he goes well I just saw wall planners and you're like and this is because you've created your own production company we haven't got any staff or anything yet because you know for a time Whisper my production business we were based in you were across from us weren't you we were next door and one time powerhouses of Chiswick I've not told you this before but one time you were in there and I walked by and having watched Top Gear all my life I was so and I met I think the guys once or twice when I saw F1 I was so close to opening the door and going, hi, come in.

10:26Hi, he's got scared. We were a bit like, there's Whisper Ever there. That's something to do all the effort. You've got stuff and everything. But, so it's a bit mutual, I must say. Well, you inspired, you know, I think the big, the creative stuff that we've done on Whisper's Formula One coverage, like Tom Cruise doing an opa. You must, you know, please acknowledge that you've allowed production companies like mine to think big, think bold, think outside the fun. and then, yeah. Have some fun. Because, you know, sports coverage traditionally, a bit like the old Top Gear was stayed and slow and, you know.

11:00It was, but I think you've got mentalities like Bernie who won't let that happen. Bernie wants it to be exclusive and... Correct. Till's clanging, you know, with tenors going in them. But that's kind of it. He thinks big is fancy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Monaco. But big is now what we saw in Las Vegas. What we saw in Las Vegas last night. Mickey Mouse. What do you think of Mickey Mouse and the Dancing Fountains at the end of a grove. I was a bit, I was torn because I'm a bit like, hang on. I was a bit like a brat, actually. I was like, okay, you Americans all coming in and you're, and like on your Instagram feed, it's like influencer, influencer, influencer, walking through those things with a pit pass.

11:40And I'm like, hold on a minute. I get it if it's Mark Wahlberg, but influencer, influencer, influencer. It was, it's got to happen. but I wasn't like, I was a bit old, like hands on hips about it. Like, come on, a bit much with the Americans. However, I haven't been to a race for years and this year I went to Silverstone. Right. Like I say, I just always watch it on telly and I haven't been for years and years and years. Went with Jeremy and went with Caleb from the farm and we went as guests at McLaren and it was a sea change because I remember how being in the pits the last time I'd been was like, the atmosphere was always like, you're lucky to be here.

12:24Yeah. And they actually treated you like, welcome. It's like, if we have invited you, we'll give you a nice time. They're like, come in the garage, come in the garage in the race, here's your headphones, listen to Lando and Oscar. It was so much nicer. They've remembered that F1 is 90 % entertainment, 10 % sport. Not the other way around. Not the other way around, but they handled it well. It was like the Motowns were good to be in and everyone's dropping by and it was so much nicer. It was so much nicer, that whole vibe. So I adored it, yeah. Absolutely adored it. See, I'm a bit like you that I watch Spa and Monza and Silverstone and I think, don't mess with my sport.

13:06Don't mess with my sport. But then I watch Vegas and I think, do you know what? Use this as a kind of like creative blue sky, do what you like opportunity because then you might stumble across something that actually works really well and I think I accept it because it's Vegas. I don't think I would accept that if you were doing it. At Spa. I just wouldn't, you know. Yeah. I mean, maybe... But then my daughter, my 12-year-old daughter loved it and saw the Mickey Mouse thing and was like... And Beyonce's there and all that. And she also fancies Lando Norris. Every girl fancies him. Don't they? They're not thick about hiring good-looking lads.

13:40Leclerc, you know. My daughter's following Leclerc on Instagram. I'm like, you've never watched a race. Very ugly man. Oh, yeah. Who'd want his life? Yeah, spades smacked him in the face. Yeah. Anyway, we digress. And we had Oscar Piastri up at the farm. Oh, did you? He's in the next series, yeah, trying to reverse. He dropped by with Mark Webber, who's like his manager. And they just dropped by for a bit of a natter. I will say no more until the series comes out. Oscar Piastri on the new series of Clarkson's farm. Yeah. Oscar on there. And what a lovely guy. So, anyway, here we are. It's now a three-way title fight, and it wasn't last night when the flag went.

14:21Yeah. Who wins it? I want Max to win now. I do, just because I'd love Lando to win. But I think it would be the greatest comeback in Formula One for Max to do it. 24 points. He can do it now. Yeah. Anyway, let's get back to Amazon. Yes, let's not do that. Let's not turn this into... I think one of the big challenges that you had, that you had, the reason why you maybe did the two and a half million pound opening to the first show is because when you started on Top Gear, there was no expectation. Suddenly, the expectation was huge. How difficult was that to deal with? Not difficult. I'll tell you why it wasn't difficult.

14:56Because we were all action stations. We had so little time that everybody kind of went to their jobs. So I'm like, I've got to build a new office and a new team and we've got to and then we have our brains on, we get our films together I've got to oversee the getting of those films done so my brain is full on and you can at that point go to somebody like Jeremy and go we're going to need a big opening and that's the sort of Jeremy job where Jeremy goes leave that with me and what's his process then for working out what that opening could look like does he want quiet time, does he write stuff down pepper you with thoughts?

15:36What's that message? Yeah, he goes away. He goes away and he actually does. I mean, when he's doing his columns, he'll go for a walk around the garden and look at the... I mean, I remember he did one of his... There was a Chrysler Crossfire, I think that. Terrible coupe. And he was like writing a road test about that and he went for a walk in the dog garden. He saw one of his dogs having a shit and he was like, that's what the back of that car looks like, a dog having a dump and then he's back inside. But he's had to have his walk around the garden. But he goes quiet Yeah, and like, say, so that, when he came to the pub with all the Top Gear stuff, back in 2001, that was days of that, of him scribbling and stopping and scribbling, and then stress testing and crossing out.

16:17And had you guys not been jaded from the beginning with these awful conversations with lawyers about what was and wasn't allowed to be part of the mission? No, because they were too funny. They were too funny. Like, there was a couple that were brilliant. I mean, they peaked, because it is all about detail. God's in the detail. Some of it you got when they would go, okay you can't you can have an audience in your five million pound tent but they can't be in the round you can't be in the round like you were on because that's a format point that will come after you so that you've got to be at one side etc so you go i get that i get that uh you can't jeremy can't handwrite the lap times so they have to come up electronically because you can't do that again get it but then it starts to get more mental because lawyers get into i've thought of something you haven't have mode and this one lawyer went um i've got a point to make here that james i notice on the top gear show says oh cock quite a lot and we're like yeah sort of he just says james says oh cock quite a lot when things go wrong you know is that a format point is that something that belongs to Tottenham.

17:26And James is like, oh my goodness. No, look, if I stub my toe at home, I go, oh cock. It's just like, I brought it with me. Would you say it in real life? And they go, okay, well, let that one slide. But no, no, no, I'm not on that one. And then our favorite, which we were just flabbergasted, this guy went, I notice when you're on your long tours of exotic locations, when you're road trips with your cars, you get to an amazing location, you stop, you get out of your cars, you admire that location. And we're like, you mean like look at the view? And he's like, yeah. I'm wondering if that's a format point.

18:01And we're like, I'm sorry. No, looking at the view is now something we can only do on... And he went, well, it is a noticeable thing. So we said like, all right, so if we're in Namibia, Sunset, Skeleton Coast, do you want us to go, well, that looks shit. You know, what do you want us to do? So the comedy of that meant that we were good with the lawyer thing because eventually we won what we won and we won enough. And then back to Jeremy, the opening. So he'd squirrel off, like with our films, with our big specials, you either start with a location or an idea or the cars. You start with one of those three.

18:43He started with his opening with that song, I Can See Clearly Now. and he built everything narratively around that. He was like, through his phone, go past all the prog rock that he's got on it and he gets to, I can see clearly, and he goes, that's the one, that's the one. And he wanted that live Hothouse Flowers version. And then he builds everything from there. So he came in and he had it all laid out there. He leaves the BBC, he's going, we've got to tell a story, fly to America because America is like Amazon has signed us and then at that point we go yeah but hang on we can't say we've become an American show and he's like no I know that I know that so that whole opening in the desert we got hundreds of cars but they're deliberately all cars and no cars it's like it's a mishmash It's very international.

19:44It's very global. And the Hothouse Flowers there, Irish band on stage. So, and the desert is just a neutral territory where you can make all that work. But we weren't saying, hello, America. We were saying, yeah, we're back with a bang. 100 % we were saying that. We were saying we'll be here, there, and everywhere. This desert could be where we do a show. and then we built the kind of just the beat story beats up as the song went to so that it was logical that when they pull up the hothouse flowers are on the stage so we close that circle and i was like it's too much but then again i'm very glass half empty and i'm not the one who would smash the vase i was like feels a bit much to me but he was right because everyone actually just enjoyed it and it didn't say we are now an American show because I mean Jesus when they get out of the car guts you know they've not had their teeth whined they've not had Botox they're not it's like they're completely what they were but what I liked about the opener was that I felt like one of those people I was like a fan of Top Gear and when I watched that opener I thought oh now we're all here now we're all here yeah yeah yeah it was a gathering It was followed across here, and I am one of those, I wasn't obviously, but I'm one of those people driving across the desert.

21:08Here we all are, we've come to our new home to watch this stuff. It was. It was all, don't worry, we've been away, but we're all back now and all's good. It was that vibe that we were trying to do. So that was that. Yeah. Did you enjoy it as much as Top Gear? What, doing the Grand Tour? No, I don't think I did, because with Top Gear, we've got all that voyage of discovery. Even as stressful as it was, you're constantly surprising yourself going shit a guest has pulled out and now we've got to get Damon Hill in and that kickstarts Formula One stars in a car shit we've made a film that's too big and now we're doing specials and we never planned it shit a car is broken down and now we've got cheap cars you're constantly amazing yourself with what comes your way Big things, small things, Michael Gambon going, I want to come on your show, but he'll never go on Parky's show, which is the home for a sort of knight of the realm, you know.

22:09So all that wonderful discovery is gone. By the time we start the Grand Tour, we've got all our weapons in our armory of different types of shows we'll make. We're a professional show. We're going to make good shows as best we can. And we've lost also Sunday night, the terrestrial thing it's streaming is what it is we're all in it now we've all bought it like nothing has ever existed but that thing 10 o 'clock you must have had it with you know your TV stuff 10 o 'clock 8 o 'clock Sunday night we knew at 10 to 8 families across the country were saying to kids get your books ready for school or no Top Gear you know and all that kind of stuff I mean my dad still said to me when what time's high performance on air?

22:59And I have to explain to him, like, Dad, it's kind of like... Whenever you like, whenever you want it. Whenever you want. But what you miss as the creator is the moment that feeds your ego, where you... I certainly felt when I was doing F1, the country would come to a standstill and watch what you were creating. Watch what you're creating. Lovely feeling. We're all meeting here at this time. Did you and the guys miss that? Yeah, massively. We missed the whole terrestrial setup of like, it's Sunday night. You know, and you could just like, you know, I'd talk to Jeremy and he'd be like, hang on, so Indiana Jones is on before us.

23:35Cracking. Bit of Top Gear then bed. We're in for a good night tonight. You kind of, you could put your mind on what the country might be thinking or doing. And that was lovely because, and then next Wednesday, if we'd done a shit show, we could go sorry about last week's show because it was, well, one, we were capable of apologizing, but it was like we were all part of people's lives, you know. And actually, it was different with the Grand Tour. I remember with the Madagascar film, which didn't go down very well on Grand Tour. Yeah. But there was no opportunity then. Bit of a loan, though. You couldn't address that.

24:15Yeah, you couldn't go, guys, sorry about that one. And why do you think, after all those years, that still things like that would happen? Because people would think at that point, you and the team are bulletproof, you know how to make good telly. No, because we've got this thing where because we've got to create our material all the time, like I say, because we're not a show that refreshes itself with new contestants, we're still having to do new stuff. Now, it was a good point, that one, because we do 36 grand tours, the classic 12 episodes a year. We do three years of that. That's our initial contract.

24:51We think at that point we're done and we're getting worried that we won't be able to sustain anyway. And then Amazon go, do you want to do another two years, another 24 shows? And we're like, no, we can't do it. And what we eventually agree on is we'll just do specials because we're like, we'll keep the material fresh. They keep their Grand Tour, which is a brand that's now thriving. And we'll just do two big films a year. so we sat down quite quickly because we had to get one in and we brainstormed too quickly four films so we had semen with the boats and then we went Madagascar and we just didn't give it a quality control we knew that the road was epically bad and we knew that Reunion was over there and we could do a tale of two islands but we just didn't do the rest of it and it got boring to watch and the worst thing was the fucking pirate conceit.

25:48Like, where's that going? That's never going to go anywhere, but we kept going with it. So, but it was good for us because it pulled us up. Yeah. You know, we were like, right, none of that anymore. And we came back with Scandi Flick, so got our mojo back. You know, but it was a good kick up the arse that we needed. And then when we did the, when we stopped doing, we were going to stop altogether after those 20, 36 shows. and then Amazon did that thing of, okay, just make the specials and we'll give each of you your own solo project. So it's like Deep Purple where they're giving the keyboard player and everybody a solo album just so that the main band will sign again.

26:32So they said, you know, what do you all want to do? And Jeremy went, I fancy life on my farm. Just looking at it. And Amazon were like, great, yeah. And their faces were, oh, fuck. Did they not fancy it, really? No. A man on his farm. Just the thought of it, you know. They thought it was going to be something bigger and more exotic and all that. So, I mean, we can all laugh about it now because nobody does know anything. So it's not like we can take the high ground. None of us know anything. But I got a few calls from Amazon execs going, can you talk him out of that one? What were they worried about?

27:11That it'd be boring. But it is boring. That's why it's unbelievable. I know. That's why it's the greatest television show of this century, because it's boring. So I rang him, I went, are you feeling those knives in your back? And he went, why? And I was like, people are like, if I had a quid for everybody trying to talk you out of this. And he went, I do not blame them. I do not blame them for one second, because I'm shitting myself about this. He said, well, give it a go, and I'll give it my best shot. And he's like, what's your worry? I said, I'm worried it'd be boring. He went, me too. but what we didn't see coming was Gerald, Lisa, Charlie, Caleb, Alan the Builder Where did you find Gerald?

27:50Gerald's always worked there Honestly Always worked there Nobody was auditioned and that is lightning in a bottle that we thought we'll never get that back again in our lives Lightning in a bottle there's nothing we can do in this room in terms of trying to give people guidance or advice you know it just comes and all you can do is grab it. But we had it with Top Gear. That was a Grand Tour professional show and then we got lightning in a bottle again with the farm because that cast was not a cast. It was the people there. Charlie has always been his land agent. Are you more proud of Top Gear or of the farm?

28:29I've got more affection for the farm. I know Top Gear was an incredible thing, but I've got more affection for the farm because it was a runt and then it's like quietly just made itself amazing. I only edit it. I don't produce it. So I'm in my happiest place. And I think in the edit we've done, you know, Top Gear films and grab two films they are on train tracks to a degree. We do a lot in the edit but the farm you just get a massive bag of rushes. You know, we've got cows doing this, goats doing that. For those that don't know, rushes is just all the tapes. All the tapes. And you have to turn it into television.

29:06And because Jeremy when he steps out of his front door is at work they shoot a lot and they shoot what takes their fancy and then we you know we have storylines sure but it's like we get a big bag of rushes and then we shape it so is it still like let's say when Jeremy comes up with that plan to make the paint machine to do the line in the field or when he put the burglar smoke in the yeah those are little things that he comes across those are produced are those produced moments though that will add a bit of spice to it. A lot of them will be him because now he's given his research sort of abilities.

29:41He's going through Farmers Weekly. He's looking at stuff on sale. And then with his brain, he'll go, that's a bit of a Top Gear brain. You know, he'll go, hang on, loads of security stuff here. We could make some good telly out. We'll make Gerald head of security. And they're always going to be four-minute moments. You know, they're never the thread. They're just little baubles. The thread will be him learning to get ready for the harvest and so on. But security or... And then opening the restaurant, they become the big things. What happens when he's a good farmer, though? Because the magic here is that he's a bad farmer and he has experts all around him.

30:16Well, we've got to keep going as long as we can, whereby, like, this series we just shot now that we're putting together, five, you know, we're very careful that... There are certain things he's still crap at, like he can't hitch the trailer up. So that's genuine. Yeah. But if he could hitch the trailer up, we wouldn't go, can you pretend not to? We just leave it. And when he's actually now in the grain cart harvesting, he's not dropping everything as much anymore. He can reverse it in. He's not clanging into everything. So we don't, we just leave those ones be now. The audience will see it if it's contrived.

30:51And then he'll find another thing that he's crap at, that he's got to learn or not understand. Yeah. So, and this series, they're kind of, I mean, in a press release, it'll look terrible because it's like the farm goes to, he wants to go high tech now that is a terrible press release but it does give us amazing telly because him and Caleb go and visit a farm in Brussels with really high tech stuff but it means Caleb's got to go abroad for the first time and that drive down to the channel tunnel and through the channel tunnel with Caleb is just gold dust that it's just it's just perfection you know well look Andy thank you so much for your time hey thank you As you've probably noticed, as a bit of a TV guy, I've been very excited to have this conversation, actually for a number of years.

31:39I like, I'm just picking your brains. It's fascinating because we're proper talking into the weeds of things, and it's lovely. It really is. Yeah, it is, it is, it is, because I get asked a lot about, did you not get on with the BBC, or what were the worst moments, and we didn't do that chat, you know, because it never was like that. So it was fantastic to, and I know that, and I'm hearing about yours, and we can compare, and it's all going somewhere useful, hopefully. I think so. So thanks. And thanks for your vulnerability as well, you know, because I think that too often when people are successful, they want the world just to see one side of that because it's good for their brand.

32:16But you've been very honest about... Luckily, we don't have that. Everything that's got on insecurities and fears and the departure from the BBC. And I think you should be really proud of the farm because actually Top Gear made sense on paper and on television. The farm does not make sense on paper. No. But makes perfect sense on television. and actually you've managed to create a national moment in a period where national moments on television are disappearing. I know, and it's, again, it's him again with, I know we all play our part, but it's him again going, all right, my farm's got legs, and everyone else going, I can't see it.

32:52But it has. But yeah, we did got thrown a bone by fate. You have Charlie, you have Gerald, you have Lisa, and all of them just don't seem to care about cameras being there. That is a gift. And it's been an absolute pleasure. I think I'm going to quit while I'm doing shit advice. Cheers, mate. Thanks a lot.