Can A Swan Break Your Arm?

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2:44Can we talk about your hair, James? Oh yeah, my hair. You might notice. I've had a little haircut there. I've had it all cut off. It's gone. It's gone the hair. I've got like a sort of weird mullet thing. Yeah, it's just for work. It wasn't my choice. It looks cool. Thanks. I'm not happy about it, I'll be honest. What are you filming? Can you talk about it? A thing for Netflix. Okay. Michelle Keegan. Okay. The Keegster. Kevin Keegan? Don't think there's a relation. No, no. She's well all right, though. Yeah? Oh, Keegan. That's good. Never met her before. Yeah. And obviously, she's a big star, isn't she?

3:23Big British. Doesn't really get much better. Bigger in Britain, especially, than Michelle Keegan. And I was thinking, I was like, all my scenes are basic with her as well. And I was like, this will even go one or two ways. either she'll be well or right or she'll be a fucking lunatic. Right. But it turns out she's great. Good. Fucking commoners, Mark. One of us. That's worse, yeah. Yeah, good girl. No, she's brilliant. Really nice. But yeah, doing a drama. Everything I do is just quite funny, isn't it? Yeah, I think that's great. But it's about like a murder mystery and stuff and police and detectives and something that went on in the 90s.

4:09And now the... What do they call it? They're coming home to roost the chickens or whatever? All the chickens are coming home to roost. Yeah. And it's a bit... And there's twists and deceit and backstabbing and then me.

4:31My big face pops in to a scene. They'd be like, they're all dead. And I'd be like, well, don't worry about it. Cup of tea?

4:45Oh, that's honestly, that sounds really good. I love, I mean, I love that genre. That's really cool. So it's like crime? Yeah. It's based on a Harlan Coburn book. That's correct. Is that right? Okay, yeah. Yeah, they've made a... Is it set in the 90s or it's about stuff happened in the 90s? Something happened in the 90s and now it's sort of unraveling present day. Okay. They did a Polish version on Netflix five years ago called The Woods. That's what this one's called as well. I started watching that. It turns out it's just completely different to what we're doing. Okay. Because you can adapt stuff, can't you?

5:24You can. Tweak things and change things for a different audience. Yeah. But really interesting. Great people working on it. Everyone's dead all right. Everyone's nice. enjoying myself apart from the haircut felt like I'd lost a bit of myself so with this haircut what are they saying I'm a sort of you know weed smoking teacher's assistant at a university oh okay and I'm a bit sort of like chill out man you think you're a bit cool so they gave me a cool guy's haircut yeah okay yeah it is it's very sort of um uh a la mode yes like this is quite a la mode isn't it a la mode this is a bit a la mode um it's um it's good because i mean i i my hair is like i just don't know what it is at the moment well you're quite lucky with your hair joe you've got a good head hair there it falls nicely even when you haven't had a cut for a little while this i don't like all this these get a bit wispy and it all goes in the same like they don't they don't both go in towards my head or both go out they like both go left yeah like a tree on the coast that's and i'm like what is what is that it's i've always had messy hair yeah my daughter looks like like what I used to look like when I was a kid now she emerged at the top of the stairs today they sort of you know rough and ready grubby knees exactly yeah exactly I think my mum's main priority when I was small was making me look cute right and that wasn't my I think it's really funny what children want to wear versus what their parents want to put them in I think children have really like commercial taste children just want like whatever's got the most low they've all the worst lessons basically they want whatever every child they're total sheep they want to wear what every other child is wearing most logos most like american style clothes just or whereas parents are like but this is lovely this is made of wool and no other child will have it yeah the child be like yeah that's why it's fucking shit and i don't want to wear that because they'll bully me like that way and i remember one time my mom putting me in a little outfit to go to a children's party and it had like it was a little short suit yeah i remember there was this older girl who just really took to me like not in a kind of fancying way more in a kind of like she just thought I was she just couldn't get enough she just wanted to like pick me up and she was like oh I've got it and um I couldn't bear it I was like thanks for this mum I'm basically a teddy bear now I was about five it's my um my parents outfit choices for me in the early 90s were insane what sort of absolutely insane i remember i went to a wedding once in a lime green button shirt bright red bow tie that is it was maybe all right rainbow spec savers glasses look like fucking elton john or something it was very why had they chosen the bow tie i don't know man bright red red and green look like a Christmas tree.

8:43Red and green is very Christmas. Yeah. Very home alone. Yeah. All red and green, didn't they? Yeah. To make it look like what you think of Christmas. Yeah. Yeah. What have you been up to? Have you been up to anything? I haven't spoken to you. What have I been up to? Went to the zoo, obviously. Yeah. How's the zoo going? The zoo's all right. Honestly, I was buying an ice cream and the person serving the ice cream went, you're a gold member, right? I was like, no. But then they're just starting to recognise me. I don't know where you should be. Next, they'll be like, they'll be getting me to like muck out the you know zebras or something because they'll be like well you work it don't you um might get you to help with the conservation efforts yeah I'm so what's the big what's the star attraction at London's day what's the big it's you at this point isn't it me yeah Simon from between is doing a continuous PA there yeah so well my daughter thinks the star attractions at the zoo are getting your face painted going to the playground, just a playground, 50 minutes to get in, just a playground.

9:44Sure. And ice cream. That's what, so none of the animals. I'm now trying to basically bribe you. If the zoo is full of parents trying to go to their child, can we just see one animal before we get the ice cream? Yeah. And children, what I find quite sweet. They've got gorillas. They've got gorillas. They've got gorillas. Lions. They've got lions. They've got lions and gorillas. They've got lions, gorillas. They've got tigers. polar bears they haven't got polar bears apparently they used to have polar bears in London Zoo and somebody told me that they once went to London Zoo and it was snowing and the polar bears were so confused they went indoors right so I don't think they should have had polar bears yeah probably do you know I think it's weird if you live in London you also live in the same place as some lions I know well there's a park next to the zoo yeah it is yeah um i used to play a computer game called caesar 3 which was yeah roman yeah and sometimes if the city was like attacked i think i feel like the lions would get out of the coliseum and they would start and also i wonder if that had happened in london It'd be amazing, wouldn't it?

11:04Imagine that. Imagine when the gorillas get out. Yeah. I mean, the gorillas, they're all, I mean, interestingly, I think the big animals are the things that the parents want to look at. What's quite sweet with my daughter is that she really likes the things like the insects and like the snails and stuff. And it's basically because they're much better for children because they're closer. They're at their level. They don't move very much. So it's like they're just there. And she's not scared of them at all. She was like all the praying mantises and stuff and big sort of, you know, you have to say weird stuff.

11:37Yeah. And she's like, you know, very happy. Those African snails or something. Giant African land snails. I also, I took my daughter swimming as well. And that was really nice. I'm so sort of just, it takes me ages to get going. So basically she was like, can we go swimming? yeah i like looked up some swimming pools i was like oh there's one year we could go to but like the family swimming isn't until um like next saturday because this was sunday and she was like well why don't we go to another pool and i'm like oh yeah i i know but i can't be bothered yeah but i'm like i suppose i should parent her yeah so i just looked one up and we went and it was really good and then uh basically essentially she just plans the day now i just get up i'm like oh just what we did today and basically yeah it was her day we went when swimming went to the park uh it was a long old day i mean by the end of we go to this park all the time and yeah it's i've put in some hours at that

12:49it occurred to me recently that in in eight years time i'll be 50 Yeah. Right? That's so sad that I could tell even my mum was sad when I told her. She looked heartbroken. Well, imagine how it feels for her. Well, obviously it made her feel old, I suppose. How old are you? 41. 42. 42. Yeah. A disaster. Like a fucking disaster. So you're 42, right? And on paper, you know, you're in your 40s. Doesn't sound great, does it? No. Imagine your child being 42. I know. Well, that was what she was thinking. Yeah. She thought, my God, what must I be? Yeah. What's that? and she couldn't even think that i'm 40 next year don't i mean last year just yeah but you know you're in your 30s i've got to do something yeah we're both in our 30s yeah well i'm only just 30 you must be 30 well we're both in our 30s but no i suppose it's more that i i don't want to think about um you know when i'm 43 even i don't even want to think about that like don't don't make me put something in the diary where I'm thinking about being 43.

13:55I don't even want to be a week older. Yeah. Don't make me think beyond today. You're doing great though. Look at you. I'm doing all right. You look like you're about 12 still. Well, you're fine. Yeah. You got your floppy boyish. I got my floppy boyish hair. And I've got a bit of the, what's his name oh floppy head floppy head posh no Hugh Grant Hugh Grant yeah Hugh Grant huge grunt I'd love to you've got a bit of huge grunt about you love to have that handsome sort of boyish I'd love a bit Hugh Grant but I think I was watching Four Williams in a funeral the other day fucking how he's handsome my god Jesus Christ never seen it no no so yeah is it good somebody who I think I do think i look a little bit like i've never seen four weddings and funerals it's good no yeah it is good i've never seen notting hill it is good i just think it's all a bunch of poshows it is a bunch of poshows that's definitely true i remember i watched uh bridget jones's diary once yeah and it was like oh we're going to mummy and daddy's in the like in the countryside i can't remember exactly what happened but it was like she had some trendy flat in london and then she was going to mummy and daddy's in the car i was like i'm so yeah i'm so far away from these people i think though there was an era where it seemed as though maybe everybody was going to be middle you know that phrase like we're all middle class now i feel like that was something that maybe we'd all attain we were all getting aspirational aspirational no but it's not even a rich thing is it it's uh it's just a sort of mummy and daddy in the countryside so it's a sort of upper middle that sort of thing like i've never come from a family yeah where if someone dies they leave you something i've never there's just nothing there there's nothing to be left yeah yeah no that's that's no houses there's no cottages anywhere yeah no one's got anything in my family we're all fucking useless i've got nothing coming to me i i mean it's i think it's a i think it's a fair point um and i think they are it's a depiction of a life that presumably very few people actually enjoy i don't know i think i kind of i think it just works in america doesn't it that's how americans would like that's what americans think that i mean in 101 dalmatians there's a guy who is a sort of jobbing computer game designer right he's basically like he's sort of borderline out of work he's a kind of artist right and he lives on like and this is an american film he lives on like berkeley square or something like it's like it's ridiculous yeah his house kind of abuts green park or something.

16:37I think Peep Show does a good realistic interpretation of sort of two middle class university educated guys living together because they're still in squalor. Completely. Yeah. Completely. They do have mummy and daddy and they do have sort of, you know, their family and sisters are lawyers and things like that. But they're still sort of scrabbling around. No, I think that's, yes, it's the bank of mum and dad, but the bank of mum and dad doesn't mean that you're living fabulously like you're not going to starve but you're still going to have a relatively crummy yeah life for about 30 years i always think that flat looks grim it's grim there's a bit in one of the episodes where like they're hoovering up and they're just using they haven't got the proper end for the hoover it's just and the camera's like on the hoover they don't they do that weird shot and he's just hoovering up cigarette but like hoovering up everything hoovering up everything yeah there's like crisps in a bowl yeah they don't leave you could still eat those yeah and he's just hoovering the bowl it is um it is a very good depiction of of um yeah of squalor isn't it i wonder if they'll do more peep show i feel like they should i don't know if um what's that what are they up to well I suppose Jesse Armstrong wrote Succession Sam Bain and Jesse Armstrong they've got that sketch show now, Mitch and Webb on Channel 4 which is coming back I've still not seen it an updated peep show would be interesting because it would be interesting to see it in the era of I suppose the economy as it is now apps everywhere, AI all that stuff, because it feels like a kind of late 90s early noughties world like it's kind of the internet is still kind of on the border of their existence rather than just being absolutely saturating everything yeah um it'd be challenging i think it's really hard to write about the modern world because how do you like what do you do about screens jez would be trying to like trying to launch an app yeah i mean there's so much podcasts and stuff.

18:54Jez would have a podcast. He'd have a podcast. There's so much stuff going on in that media. I mean, I do forget how old Peep Show is. I think Peep Show had something like five series before The Inbetweeners even came out. Four series or something. I do forget how old Peep Show is. And you watch it now, like Jeremy says things like, which now isn't, it's not even a funny joke because it's so gone the other way. He says a few times, I think the internet's going to be really big. Yeah. Yeah. And now we're so, like, oh, we've done that joke as well. We're so far out the other end. Yeah. But Jeremy, like, a few times, he's like, yeah, I think the internet.

19:38The internet's going to be really big, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You mean we're out the other end as in it's obvious now. Which was funny at the time because I think the internet was already big at that point. Yes, of course. So Jeremy's saying the internet's really big. Now it's redundant. Now it's completely redundant. because the internet, it's not only really big, the internet is everything. It is everything, yes. It's not, yeah, it's just a case of like what little islands have not yet been swallowed up by it. Yeah. I like jokes like that though. Yeah. I do like jokes. I said to, I went to see Paul Weller once a couple of years ago.

20:11Yeah. And I went to say goodbye to him and I watched the show and it was really good. It was really, really good. Bam was like, it was probably, I've got to see him a few times and this particular one everyone sounded so tight so brilliant and I said I'm going to shoot off now it's nice to see you again just want to say you sound really great I was like I think you should stick at this I think I think you could really make a go at this part he just laughed and went yeah yeah good

20:43he's got a really good sense of you keep going Paul yeah keep going I think I can really see a future in this for you mate yeah yeah That's good. But yeah, no, I mean, yeah, Peep Show, very, I mean, a very bleak show. I think of all the sitcoms, I feel like that would be the easiest to bring back and it would just hit the ground running and you would just pick up from where it left off sort of thing. Yeah. I think that would, I think, yeah. Can we do that? Should we start a movement? I'd love that. More Peep Show? It's a great show. so good season nine kind of i feel like that was the last season they tipped over into the modern world like mark was really into candy crush oh yeah so that that last series kind of did a little bit of a transition i always felt that i always felt that the simpsons never really knew what to do about the internet i i think it had i think it was the great sitcom or I suppose it is sort of a sitcom of the television era it really understood it was so interested in television and it really knew about television and and the opening credits are The Simpsons Family coming home and sitting in front of the television and this was the this was the era it was a television show that was about television yeah should we do this should we do this yeah let's let's um sort of that's a that's a very very cold open Jo and James, Jo and James, Jo and James Jo and James, Facts Up Welcome to Jo and James Facts Up Each week we'll be bringing facts to one another that we deem interesting Mine's terrible This, by the way Well, mine's quite good Mine's boring You know what?

22:29I bet we've gone for the same thing We'll get to it in a second Oh god, I hope not No, because I don't think I think mine's good But you're What? I mean Are we doing Dracula? Yeah Yeah Yes Okay But that doesn't count as us doing the same thing But I'm not, yeah, no. Unless our fact is this week we're doing Dracula, which. We are, aren't we? No, but what I mean is, no, no, but what I mean is that's not the, no, unless, it doesn't matter. Let's just carry on. You guys know what a podcast is, yeah? Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, we'll let you guys know whether or not our fact is about Dracula later. Yeah.

23:04Our policy is that the more interesting the fact, the more true it is. We'll also dig into the weird things that you'd like to think are true, but don't want to research yourself in a segment that we call Fact Check. So if you do want to send us your facts, email us, hello at joandjamespod.com. Our WhatsApp number is 07822034330. And you can follow us on socials at joandjamespod. And you can also watch our episodes in full on YouTube. Just search for Joand James Facts Up. Now, let's get fact up.

23:37So we had some suggestions for Script Up. and one of the iconic scenes in film that I thought would be fun for us to do is Bane versus Batman in The Dark Knight Rises. Who would like to be Bane and who would like to be Batman? I feel like you should probably be Bane, shouldn't you? I'm going to be Bane. Yeah? Yeah. I'll be Batman. I'm going to send you the script. What I will say is this is a Bane-heavy part of the script, but this is a fight scene. I don't know if you remember. They're on sort of this catwalk sort of element. I don't know whether I've actually seen Dark Knight Rises. It doesn't matter.

24:15That's fine. Tom Hardy won't have seen it when he got the script. Exactly. Also, you don't need to do... You could do your own spin on it. Yeah. I'm going to put my own thing into Batman. Put a bit of Joe Thomas into this. Show Tom how it should have been done. Yeah. All right, here we go. Okay. All right, take one. Action. You've made a serious mistake. Not as serious as yours, I fear. Bane? Let's not stand on ceremony here, Mr Wayne. Catwoman hears the name. Less sure of what she's done. Batman moves at Bane. Strikes powerful blows. Bane catches his fist. Peace has cost you strength. victory has defeated you Bane smashes Batman back Batman back Batman back Batman back Batman back kicks him off the catwalk Batman drops uses his cape to land there's always a catwalk isn't there Bane climbs down on a chain his men watched in disciplined silence Batman hurls flashbangs at Bane who doesn't flinch theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated.

25:40Batman lashes out at Bane. Bane counters. They separate. But we are initiated, aren't we? Bruce? I don't think... The League of Shadows. And you betrayed us. Us? You were excommunicated from a gang of psychopaths. Now I am the League of Shadows. Here to fulfil... now then Ra's al Ghul Ra's al Ghul is destiny is destiny Batman hurls himself at Bane throwing him into the waterfall where he smashes his fists and gauntlets where is it? there's a catwalk and a waterfall and chains well waterfalls earlier and gauntlets into Bane's mask again and again water cascading over them Bane is not moving just taking the blows Batman pauses

26:37Bane's arms shoot out what shoot out? smashing Batman what shoots out? so Bane's taking some blows something shoots out yeah Batman's getting smashing Batman smashing Batman aside Bane rises you fight like a younger man nothing held back no reserves admirable but mistaken. Batman hits a switch on his belt. Oh, you're hard. The lights go out. Bane turns, slowly addressing all the shadows at once. You think darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dark. Again. But you merely adopted the dark. I was born in it. Formed by it. In the shadows, Batman circles, looking to strike. Is Bane taking a shit?

27:35He's taking a really big turd. I didn't see the light until I was already a man. And by then it was nothing to me but blinding. Bane lunges backwards into the darkness. Batman's throat in his grasp. The shadows between you because they belong to me. Bane smashes him into... You haven't got any lines at all. Bane smashes him into the ground, pounding, pounding, pounding. So capitalised pounding, but then just normal pounding. Pounding the hard cowl with his bare fist until it cracks. Bane rises from Batman. Gestures to the ceiling of the chamber. Explosive charges have been driven to holes. I will show you where I've made my home while preparing to bring justice.

28:29Then I will break you. That was... I've got tingles. I honestly, I thought you were going to read the stage directions. I feel like I should have done. You could have done because you would have had something to do. Yeah. But I... No, that was glorious. The reason I read the stage directions is because, like, when you are in a character, Bane wouldn't share the directions. Right. So, like, it was quite difficult to not actually physically attack. I feel like if Bane was reading the script, he would read the directions. yeah he'd read Batman as well but like I had that's you know right it was difficult even that I consider a compromise it will be very painful yeah for you that's my favourite bit the bit on the plane yeah I haven't watched that for years I need to re-watch that good film yeah good film made better I think I think I think Nolan is kicking himself now because you know he listens to this he'll be calling you up for the next project yeah no doubt absolutely well we'll see Hoppenheimer 2 Hoppenheimer Hoppenheimer Hoppenheimer Hoppenheimer Hoppenheimer 2 Hoppenheimer have I told you that I'm sure I've said this before but like you know when we were when we were doing sounds like a Pixar Easter film yeah Hoppenheimer released on Easter Sunday yeah you've definitely got a shot at that yeah have I told you that when the communist bunny rabbit when we did the Inbetweeners films the scripts kept getting leaked and did they?

30:10yeah who was leaking them? I never knew this oh well they I had no idea I had no idea at all they never found out who was leaking them anyway moving on oh but so they gave them these code names on the email that's right yeah are we allowed to talk about those? I don't know but the second one was called The Long Goodbye The Long Goodbye yeah and so for a while on the United Agents website, it said, Joe is the star of the Inbetweeners movie and the Inbetweeners movie 2, colon, The Long Goodbye. Yeah, that was just our code word for it. But also like... Because if you found the script or something, someone left it on the train, it would just say The Long Goodbye.

30:44It would just say The Long Goodbye. I mean, if you turn the first page, it would say... It'd be like Mr. Cooper being like, Oi, oi, Simon, where are you off to? Yeah. Alright. How does the second Inbetweeners film start? at a party or something Hogwarts party is it a Hogwarts party? yeah it's they addressed yeah Will says greetings muggles that's right is that the first film? is that the first scene in the second film? first scene in the second film greetings muggles with Daisy Ridley was she in that? yeah she was in it and then they wanted to get her back for the reshoots she was too busy funnily enough she was doing Star Wars if there's one thing the Inbetweeners excels in it's briefly crossing paths with people who then become really massive yeah while we just stay around doing even more Inbetweeners that's it what are you doing?

31:41Even more of these got more of these, more of these coming up more of these, even more of these my walks with Mencap but that was Bane vs. Batman The Dark Knight Rises we can move into a fact check if you want or Joe's got his fact oh yeah we've got natural fact to do so Joe we do have to do our fact don't we I know everyone's guessing what today's fact is well so as I'm sure all of you are aware today is and you're all you know shouting this at the radio stop going on about it radio it's how people it's how people listen to the podcast in your head. The wireless. They're all... The family's around the wireless.

32:28I listen to podcasts in my car quite a lot and to me, I just still think of it as the radio. I mean, I know that's... They're coming from the skies. I was literally saying... I was talking to Harrison about George Orwell yesterday. Oh, yeah. Because he's been reading Animal Farm for school. Oh, yeah. Oh, right. And I've never read it. Yeah. And I was like, oh, is it good? I've heard it's really good. And... Because they've also... It's an amazing book. yeah um and he was like yeah it's dead interesting and i and then i was talking to him about war of the worlds yeah people thought it was real well i don't i don't know i might be this might be information that i've fucked up that i've just passed on to my son as if it's it is real but i thought it was like a 1950s radio show originally but nobody understood it was like a news report or something they put it i think they put it out as though it was a news report and some people were freaking out going oh god the aliens have finally come i wish they would come to quote you either shit or get off the pot you know i mean lurking around in the clouds hanging around army bases and stuff freaking out pilots just fucking either be either come or don't Come or don't, yeah.

33:50I agree. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Little green wankers. Yeah. No, they're annoying, aren't they? Unless they're big, in which case, welcome. Yeah.

34:06Just trying to make sure I don't piss off the aliens. No, no, absolutely. But yeah, no, what's our fact today, Joe? Right, well. It's an anniversary, is that right? yes and as i mean i mean i feel a bit it feels a bit patronizing to even you know think that people might not know this but it's obviously the anniversary of dracula being published so um uh so that was in 1897 so i is it just the to the day anniversary it's not a particular year anniversary it's just so it was because i was looking at the year i was like oh so it was Oh, it's the 129th anniversary of the publication of... His name's Bram Stoker.

34:52Bram Stoker. Right. Yeah. Good. Irish. I've been calling him Bam Stroker. Like Bam... Bam... What's the guy in Jackass? Bam Margera. Bam Margera. Yeah. Bam Stroker. Bam Stroker. So Bam Stroker brought out a book called Dracula. People loved it. so today our facts are inspired by the tale of dracula and uh we have had a taste for vampires of course we have yeah we are they're silly vampires they are we did our uh did our little twilight so what's your uh what's your fact for us okay so this is something that I found out. Now, obviously, the book came out in 1897. Not an overwhelming success. Successful enough.

35:44Bram Stoker was writing lots of different things. He was quite, he wrote for the popular market. So he wrote kind of gothic stuff. Right. Other gothic stuff was going on at the same time. It's the same time as like Frankenstein. Including, yeah. Well, no, Frankenstein was, I think, earlier. I think that was, that was earlier. Um, this was actually an era when because there'd been quite a lot of reform in britain and there'd been a lot more education a lot more people could read so i think there was a there was an 1870 act that that that made education much more widespread so you had a much bigger reading public so people were trying to write stuff that was a bit more kind of for a popular market yeah a bit more commercial a bit more commercial so there was there was another book that i was looking at that was published around the same time.

36:33They apparently did a little bit better even than Dracula. This book was called The Beetle. And it was about a guy who went to Egypt and he was attacked by a priestess, to be fair. Oh, okay. I thought you were going to say a beetle. No, well, no, that's the thing. But then I don't know when, but in the end, like she was a bit of a beetle. Right. She came back to England and she was causing it. She started a band. In Liverpool. They had one drummer initially. Yeah. but then they they were and then for the rest of his life he thought oh if only I could have been in that band no no she's so I think she was probably a scarab beetle right and she got all sorts so that and apparently that the beetle actually did a bit better than but anyway so this is getting off track so anyway other things being published around the time including the beetle I just want to get that in because I think the beetle is a funny title for a book yeah so did okay but then obviously really cut through with films so the first film version was made in 1921 but it's been lost no one knows where it is no one knows it is all they've got is like four posters 1922 that's when you get the first famous one Nosferatu uh and the director of that uh whose name I've for the moment forgotten he died in uh the 1940s in America and his body was buried in Germany and in 2015 his tomb was raided and they stole his skull oh I say they I don't know some youths well probably some German teenagers to be honest sounds like if I was putting money on it I'd say German teenagers they probably smoked a few dudes probably did yeah probably took it to a Berlin basement techno club shall he steal his skull look at this it's a laugh Is this a laugh?

38:30We can't tell. Is this funny? This is funny, yeah. It's a skull, but... Alles klar, Justin.

38:43And in the news report that I saw, they'd said, and this guy, he was buried next to his two brothers, but they were like, and it was weird because they didn't disturb the brothers' tombs. It was not weird because the brothers didn't direct Dracula. Yeah. It was not weird at all. yeah you're not going to take those so yeah it's like well that's weird isn't it well why didn't they steal every skull well busy and also the brother of Neil Armstrong's skull was taking yeah I know yeah exactly and they also found they still have never found the skull never found a skull they found candle wax in the tomb as well as though maybe some sort of ritual had been candles never mean candles are either really restful or really weird so you find candle wax you're like either it's just someone chilling out you know with a biscuit or it's like Satan worship yeah Or both.

39:29They're just like candles, isn't they? Yeah. Is that your fact then? That his skull was taken? Yeah. The director's name was Frederick Wilhelm Mornau? Yes. F-W... How do you spell it? Mor what? M-U-R-N-A-U. Yeah. I'm not sure that's the pronunciation, but... No. I don't know. No. But so... So he now does not have a skull. he's dead though isn't he he is dead so maybe he's he's not wondering where he is or anything himself good fact what do you make of that so they've never not yet found and there's also a film missing as well a lot of things go missing there's a lot of spooky stuff going on around the Dracula films good fact Joe I think

40:26I thought we'd go for the same one my one's worse My fact's worse than yours. I mean, I think it's interesting as well that there is this kind of... I think the suggestion is that

40:41vampires... The word vampire first entered English usage because there was this idea that... It's funny, I read an article that said that a corpse had been... They believed it was... They thought it had come up from the ground and that it... Wandered about. Yeah. Well, the article said it had been implicated in some murders. I thought it was funny. He used to say implicated. It might be a walking corpse. If it's not, it's just a walking corpse. Don't worry about it. But as long as it doesn't murder anyone, that's fine. But basically, bodies can do weird things after death. They can... The hair continues to grow.

41:23The nail... When they found this body, they found that the nails were still growing. Well, this is the thing. yeah i think that's a common misconception yeah about the nails growing i think what it is is your skin shrinks oh it's the receding of the yeah okay i've got conflicting because i used to love that fact when i was a kid i was like yeah do you know your nails still grow even after you're dead that's amazing um but why would they if you're dead you want to look you're not going to still you want to look good it's not going to war is it yeah um should we do fact check joe should we You want a fact check.

41:55This is the part of the episode where we read a fact or question that you'd like us to get to the bottom of. And then we're going to have a good old think during the break and we'll come back and let you know how true it feels to us and to decide whether it passes our fact check. Joe, I think you've got this week's fact check. Yes. So I have got this week's fact check, which comes from Doug. And he sent in a message via the fact up form. This form. This form. Love it. Love the use of the form. Doug asks, can a swan really break a man's leg? He's got four question marks there. He really wants to know this.

42:34I've done some research myself. I can't imagine what that involved. But I'm yet to find any concrete evidence of a swan's leg-breaking capability. Obviously, if you were up a ladder and were spooked by a swan and fell off, you could break a leg. But I don't think that counts. I do agree with that. Same as if the swan sort of took out a hit on you. Well, also, if you've asked the swan to hold the ladder at the bottom and it just wanders off and the ladder slips and you break your leg, I'd blame that on the swan. Okay, so that can be the swan's fault. Well, we're going to get on the case and we'll be back with a fact stat.

43:15Yes. Joe and James, facts up!

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44:25Right, welcome back to Jo and James Factor Hi We were just fact checking on the behalf of Doug Who wanted to know, can a swan really break someone's leg? He says, can it break a man's leg? But, I've not heard legs, I've heard arms I think I've heard I've heard arms as well I think maybe he's put leg in because he's got a little bit in mind of this ladder thing yeah you can still break your arm on a ladder but I've heard the same thing but I've heard arm I've heard arm as well and I've said it to my kids if we've gone to a duck pond or something I've gone oh careful careful with the swan they're very angry especially if they've got a nest or young around.

45:15Well I think that's definitely true if they're a youngster. They do charge. I feel like I've got a vague memory of being charged by a swan myself. They put their wings out and they run after you. My dad when he was a young man he was spending some time in Swaziland with the Peace Corps and he said that they used geese to act as like guard dogs. Right. Geese are apparently they're quite they're a bit handy geese. Where was he? Swansiland. Swansiland. Swansiland. I think it might not be called... I think you said Swansea Land. Swansea Land, yeah. And I was like, what? Swansea Land is... Theme park.

45:51If you're in Cardiff, but you want a little taste of Swansea, get yourself down to Swansea Land. And it's got like, you know, it's got the really big Debenhams. I don't know what happened in Swansea. Just thought they might have been Debenhams. It's got, yeah, Swansea Bowl. Swansea Bowl, yeah. It's got the Swansea lot there. Swansea lot are there. Yeah, statues of some of the... They're all little slugs though, aren't they? You Swansea lot are little slugs. They're all little slugs with no personalities. Just Jimmy Bello and there you are. Yeah. And he got aggressive. But yeah, apparently, yes, they are geese.

46:30Geese can be aggressive. Swans are this curious thing. I mean, they're massive swans. They're fucking big. they're massive and they sort of they play quite a prominent role I think in film and television culture I feel like there's the hot fuzz thing that's got a swan in it hasn't it it's very taboo it's one of the final taboos isn't it to kill a swan or marry one or marry one are you not allowed to marry a swan you have to go over to Gretna Green and then you can marry a swan I think a goose can't marry a swan I don't know but I think the queen can this is a fever dream like this episode it's really bizarre yeah the yeah the swan yeah I've heard I mean I have heard this the idea about them being like royal royal property yeah they're owned by the the king now do they have swan for Christmas dinner because they're the only people that are allowed to have a swan I imagine it's not very nice I don't know if I've dreamt that up in Operation Good Guys which is another sitcom of the same vintage The Office had a lot to The Office actually did owe quite a lot to Operation Good Guys they have a visit by a member of the Royal Family might be the Queen and they serve a dish that they call Stuff with a Turkey Swan in a Basket and she says that's absolutely revolting so I mean if that's to be believed they then the queen does not does not eat the well yeah you keep saying the queen the king sorry she's been deaf for a while it's difficult to keep up isn't it it is hard to keep up these monarchs they come and go keeping up with the Windsors oh god is the pope now oh I don't know what I would like to talk about is the fact that it is a fact as far as I'm concerned that a swan can break someone's arm for definite.

48:35And if it's not a fact, I'm honestly going to be so disillusioned. I don't know what to... Why do you... So what would... The swan has a wing. It's got a wing. It's got a beak. Got that long neck. And I appreciate it's got a lot of stuff, but a lot of that seems like a liability rather than... Like... A bit like... Foggy-headed. Yes, it's got a long neck. Yeah. To me, that's... I mean, the draft's got a long neck, But we don't hear them breaking people's arms. Well, I don't know, man. Have you seen giraffes fight? Have you seen giraffes have a scrap? They kick each other. They also smack their necks onto each other's neck.

49:11I actually have seen it. It's really violent. I think swans... Do you know the giraffe, right? Because of the way the giraffe has evolved to have this mental neck, there is a there is some sort of um i think it's a vein or something that pumps the blood or something like that right that oh is it the pressure in all mammals right it it does it's sort of vestigial is that the word it's something left over that doesn't really need to be there yeah yeah yeah but in us or whatever in all mammals it sort of travels up it doesn't go anywhere but then goes down to our foot or something like that right there's some sort of very bizarre Right badly designed Like the appendix or one of these things you don't really need Yeah But at one point when we were sort of a little thing that it made sense but now we've evolved and the giraffe still has this thing Right It goes right up its fucking neck Yeah All the way back down again Right Whereas it just needs to go like from here to here Right I can't remember exactly what it was I remember watching it on Inside Nature's Giants Oh wow Okay Which I'd love them to bring that back again that was great inside nature's dress i used to love that um so the dry side i shouldn't have brought up draws actually they do seem quite no i mean not because of that that was good but like i but they actually do seem like maybe they're quite tough i think more with swans you know what it is with swans i think we've never really seen them do anything so we're like what can they fucking do they're an enigmatic animal right we all we all have seen their feet do you think and it doesn't all fit together we're like wait a minute there's this beautiful thing on top like a bride yeah what's that underneath a couple of fucking dinosaur feet yeah and so that's weird and so we think what else are they hiding do you think they've just got really good pr i think they have i honestly they're a bit i think they're a bit like the soviet union during the cold war where we're like we're frightened that swans like don't let them know we actually haven't fucking got anything we can't break him his arm yeah yeah i think it's more like that i think it's they've got good pr there and also less is more everyone they've got your banksy pr like do you know i mean it's like you don't know anything like the less we know about this person or swan well i mean i'd maybe maybe banks is a swan do you know i mean that could be that could be true as well i think they found out who banks he was yeah they have um i saw a i saw a picture of who he actually is so i mean i so you know think about i think it's that they are they appear they're enigmatic they are and this association with the royal family and what is it the queen used to say you must not let in light upon magic or something like you don't ever which i agree with actually yeah don't look behind the curtain sort of thing that was the correct policy with the queen yeah she's a wise woman yeah because you because actually because actually brackets because it's completely unjustified was she was she tapping her nose at the same time yeah she was like um hey oh no don't uh oh no you know ask no questions yeah i'll tell you no lies how many palaces of icon oh i can't remember oh um you gotta ask yourself oh you gotta take this job yeah no um yeah but um but no so i think i think it kind of they they have this air of mystery they have this they're they're they appear to be in line to the throne or something i don't know they've got this they're associated with the royal family and i think that because of that we think my god what could they do and we've never, I mean I know that Doug says he's done some research do you think, because they're protected I'm worried that he's taking it upon himself to go out probably at night to reservoirs because they are protected by the so don't get in over your head Doug do you think they're a bit more confident than when they should be yeah so that's why they like rush out at you and stuff if you get too close to the bank yeah they're like yeah you want a fucking do you know who I'm mates with yeah only the fucking king yeah so if you want to start something let's go they're over yeah they think they're untouchable yeah they think their power and their connections will protect them but I do think they can break your arm but you still think they can break your arm they're big and strong they are strong Should we throw it over?

53:34To be honest, I'm saying, well, first of all, Doug says leg. That seems... I don't think they could break a leg. They can't break a leg. Couldn't break a femur. Can they break an arm? Well, what part of the arm? I mean, how, like, maybe this bit? They'd snap your arm, I think, yeah. Maybe this bit, but not that bit. Your elbow. The elbow. Just snap it right off. I think, I feel like it's a thing that is said to stop people from going up to swans and giving them a hard time. I mean, they do look like... I'm starting to think that too now. They do look like they're sort of... Some creatures look like they are pretty bog standard.

54:10Whereas the swan looks like it's a little bit of a cut above. A little bit special, isn't it? A little bit special. It's got those angel wings. Yeah. The long, sinuous neck. They are pretty, aren't they? They are pretty. The colour scheme is pretty good. Black and white and just the orange. The feet are weird, obviously. The ugly duckling. The swan in the end. He was a swan in the end. everyone was going oh you're ugly mate yeah still don't really know uh what the moral of that story is the ugly duckling it means because you tell you you tell that story to ugly kids because you're like oh the kid the other kids in my school will take the piss out of me because i'm ugly and you go well let me tell you about the ugly duckling he grew up to be a swan yeah and he was better looking than everyone yeah and it doesn't work with ugliness it needs to work it needs to work with the ugliness has to be an analogy for something where it would so for example but the ugly duckling is literal.

55:04Oh, because of different species? Yeah. But the ugly duckling is like literal. It's like, oh, don't you worry because you'll probably grow up. Don't worry about being ugly now because you'll probably grow up to be really beautiful. Yeah. Look at me. I didn't get my swan moment. Well, this is because it's actually a different species. When I was an ugly little boy at school. So when you're at school, you've got to be like, I really hope I am actually just a really attractive orangutan. Yeah. I'm just the best looking bear ever. Yeah, stick me in the zoo. I'll have my pick of all the females. Anyway.

55:41I'm going to leave this up to you, Joe, actually, because I'm now on the fence. Okay, so to be honest, Doug says, can it break a man's leg? Sure. And other than the scenarios that he's kind of illustrated... Yeah, if it was... If it was, if it spooked you on a ladder, if it was driving a taxi. Yeah, if it was driving a taxi. I'm sure it would struggle and it could probably do you some damage. Yeah. If it was performing an operation. If there was a grand piano teetering on the edge of a cliff and you thought, I hope nothing touches that, and then a swan goes, oh. If there was a squadron of armed swans.

56:21Yeah. If they were just swans. But I'll leave it up to you, Joe. You go. I think it's fact... What do we say? Fact off, I think. Fact off. I think it's fact off. I think it's fact off. They can't break your leg. All right. Should we throw it over? And I don't really believe they can break your arm. I think it's quite apt that we... Did we throw it over to Queen Lily May? Yeah, Queen Lily May. They're your creature. Yeah, I don't like them, to be fair. I don't like them much. Got them now. So, from my research, and I will say there doesn't seem to be a lot of medical research, However, from my research, it seems to indicate that they're not strong enough to break a fully grown adult's arms or legs.

57:01However, if you have particularly brittle bones or you're a child, you might be more at risk. But the risk seems more from the fact that they push you over and make you fall rather than the wings are snapping your arms. Right. Well, there you go. And what are these swans doing attacking poor little brittle children? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So basically what's happening? Pick on someone your own size. Stop going after our old and our, you know, flaky kids or whatever it was. Powdery boned infants. Oh, no, it was the old people who were old, wasn't it? Old people who were old. It was the old people who were old.

57:35And they are, old people are old people, always. And so, yeah, I would, so, yeah, I think I was right. I think I was right. If we were talking about adults, absolutely. I mean children let's leave them out of it right let's please I'm collecting for charity yeah come on right that's that then so that's that so Doug Doug don't but don't do any more research yeah I think I think we've helped you out there Doug I think you need to move on to oh Christ I've got to do my fact yeah let's do your fact we're also we are running quite long so let's longer than a giraffe's neck am I right oh yeah absolutely oh Lily May can you quickly look up that thing that goes up the giraffe's neck and comes back down again just so I know what it is if you'd like us to fact check something head to our episode's description for all the ways that you can get in touch and there's a mobile voice there's whatsapp there's the socials there's this special form my favourite by far is the form I love that we've got a form it's great can you just fill in this form please red tape I'm very pro red tape or more red tape.

58:51Have you managed to get anything there, Lily May? I'm trying to find out what it is. Some sort of vein or some sort of... So it's this thing where it's at so for absolutely no reason. It goes all the way up. Just to come all the way back down again. That's good. But I like it's like a sort of like an old branch line that they've never bothered to close down. Yeah. And I'm all for that because that was when they shut down them branch lines, we lost a part of the fabric of our... yeah didn't we shall I move on to my fact while you're looking at that yeah let me look away so facts about Dracula my fact so I've gone I've taken retro to its logical conclusion yes I've gone to the original Dracula oh I know who this is which is what I thought you'd go for as well the son of dragon yes this is Vlad Vlad the Impaler Vlad the Impaler who ruled Wallachia Yeah.

59:47Wallachia. I've never been quite sure how you pronounce that. Wallachia. Modern-day Romania in the 15th century. He did a good job of keeping, what was it, the Ottomans or something at bay? Yeah, I think he'd been captured by the Ottomans when he was a small boy. Yeah, they brought him up and stuff. Yeah. He seems like he had quite a traumatic youth. Lots of brothers and cousins being killed. And or trying to kill him. But his dad kept fucking him over, sort of, or something. He kept, like, attacking the Ottomans. Right. So the Ottomans were like, right, we're going to take – I think they took him and his brother.

1:00:26Yeah. And they were like, oh, we're going to take you – right, we're keeping your kids now, all right? I've got your kids. Yeah. I've got your kids, Dan. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so do you want to stop attacking us? Because otherwise we're going to do something to your kids. I think he still carried on yeah like his dad didn't give a fuck very much the Homer Simpson where the guy's trying to sell Homer a burglar alarm and he's getting a bit expensive and the guy says surely you can't put a price on your children's safety and Homer says well I wouldn't have thought so either but here we are I wouldn't have thought so either but here we are he carried on you know commit to it I mean you can't stop just because he was ruling for a bit and then he didn't for a bit they were constantly I think this part of Europe was a sort of very important part because it was like a buffer between the rest of Europe and the Ottomans, I think.

1:01:20I might be really mangling this up. This isn't my... Yeah. This is just sort of the nonsense that I think I know about. If you're in between two big powers, you never have a good time. Yeah. You never have a good time. You don't want to be stuck between like Germany and Russia. But he didn't take any shit. That's always a nightmare. Yeah, he didn't take any shit. Doesn't sound like he did. He didn't take any shit whatsoever. And he's sometimes seen as a national hero in Romania for defending his land against the Ottoman Empire. Yeah, if I just read a bit more of my own fact. But his most infamous punishment was impalement, where victims were placed on a long wooden stake.

1:02:03Loads of spikes would line them up. would, if he was trying to, he would bring them, like, with them to battles and stuff and line them up. If he was, like, besieging a city or something, he'd be like, listen, do you want to knock this on the head now? Does that look cool? Yeah. Do I? Does he look cool? Does he really look cool? Does he look cool? But, yeah, he would impale a load of people. One story claims an invading army turned back after seeing a forest of the impaled. Bloody hell. Well, in a way, what he was saying is I'm not going to take good money after bad. I mean, I've already killed this number of people.

1:02:45But... I'm not going to kill any more because you've turned back. Well, I'm going to ask you, Joe. As violent and horrific as that is, do the ends justify the means? Because as his punishments were so harsh as a ruler, it was, you know, to try and reduce crime and corruption and stuff. It was reported that theft nearly disappeared during his rule. People just didn't bother anymore. They're like, fuck that. Yeah, I mean, you probably would stop if that was the punishment. But... I mean, what's that place where, like, there's no chewing gum on the streets because you get imprisoned if you put...

1:03:24I think it might be Singapore. Is that right? And everyone's like, there's no chewing gum on the streets, though. And you're like, yeah, but... It is a problem. It's really worth it. Oh, it is, man. It's a real big problem. Yeah, but... Was it latex or something chewing gum is made out of? Yeah. You can't get that stuff off the ground. I don't know who's throwing it on the ground anyway. If you were a mum and your son was imprisoned for putting chewing gum on the floor, you might think that's a bit of a bigger problem. Well, if it was my kid, I'd go, don't put any chewing gum on the floor because you know what happens if you do.

1:03:54Yeah, but then kids might... It's a simple thing not to do. I get one. I can... I'd probably... Listen, I hate littering. I cannot bear it it's so selfish if I was put in charge that's the kind of thing that I would go after I'd make that like top of the thing apart from all the important stuff I'd go like it really fucking winds me up chewing gum on the pavement well I suppose you maybe it's low hanging fruit and I feel like it's something you'd be able to tackle quite easily it'd be a small thing can you just change the recipe of chewing gum so it's not you know bring in Wonka do the special one that tastes like a roast dinner or something yeah That's why you're at it.

1:04:32If you're going to do it, do that. By the way, the reason why I was talking about Vlad the Impaler then is because he was the original Dracula, which does translate to son of dragon. His father, Vlad II, was Dracul. He was dragon. Dracula meant son of the dragon. But that's what Bamstroker based the character on, I believe. and it's good that Bam Stroker actually found time to write a book in between doing you know going down hills and shopping trolleys and giving himself paper cuts on purpose and it's just but I do think I always think that a good fact ends with I believe I believe yeah anyway I think so anyway yeah IMO right IMO Joe I think we I think we should I think we should I think we should fact wrap yeah let's fact wrap I'm all fact out what we learned today.

1:05:30We learned that the bloke that directed one of the first Dracula films, his skull got nicked. Yep. We learned that Dracula was based on Vlad the Empire. Still not found as well. So again, if you did it or, you know, give it back. And that swans can't break your arm unless you're really old or young or brittle. And if they do, shame on them. Yeah. We'll be back next week armed with more facts, chats and vampiric bats. And don't forget that you can get in touch with us if you'd like us to fact check something that feels true to you or whatever nonsense you'd like to tell us about by emailing us hello at joeandjamespod.com.

1:06:07Our WhatsApp is 07822 034 330. You can follow us on social media. You're just going to sound like somebody leaving. I know. Wait, wait. No, we're coming to the end now. We're coming to the end now, so might as well leave the studio. Our social media is at joeandjamespod. And you can head to the podcast description if you've already forgotten those details. That was a podcast. We'll see you next week. Goodbye. Bye. If you haven't already left, bye. To those that are still here, goodbye.

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