How Can We Make Attenborough Live Forever?

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1:37Oh, God, yeah. They're fucking... My first crush at school was called Karen. Karen Bentstead. Have you ever looked her up these days? No. See if she's getting on? No, I don't know. I mean, it's weird. I was only about six. and I got into a fight over her with a boy called Billy Lefwich.

1:59He pinned me down and he told her that he fancied Karen and I was nicking her off him. Again, like we were six. Yeah, yeah. And I wasn't really. I can't help it. I wouldn't look at her. Yeah. X's are X's for a reason though. Yeah, yeah. That's true. I wouldn't go back. No. No, I don't think so. No. Too much water under the bridge since we were both six. One time there was a girl in my class who I fancied. I mean, again, I was seven. Right. She came over to me. And I was like, oh, my God, she's come. I could see she's literally coming over to me. She came over to me and she went, yeah, you've got the wrong sweatshirt on.

2:43You've got the infant school sweatshirt on, not the junior school. I was like, oh, yeah. and it was really embarrassing because the infraschool stretcher had three ducklings on it yeah and again and another one time it happened I was at the swimming baths people still say that and I was queuing for the jumpy things whatever they're called the diving platforms oh right yeah and a girl again came up I was like girls come over to me and she went yeah the label's sticking out your trunks and it says ages 7 to 8 how old were you 14 I was about 12. So, in a way, though, good physique. That's it. Still getting to them.

3:24I was skinny. I can still fit in. Exactly. I can still fit into these. So, you know, I could snake hips here. Seven to eight. Yeah. Those are my two stories. There you go, Rodrigo. What do you think about that? I might honestly just say them on the, I might say them again. No, that was fine. What we did just say. We're recording. Oh, fine. Oh, okay, fine. I thought you were coming. Oh, sorry. I thought you were coming with a change of battery or something. Oh, fine. It's been so long since I've been on a set. I'd forgotten how cameras work. I was like, what are you doing? Changing the battery.

3:54You take a light reading? It'll be alright. Yeah. I cannot. Well, I did do a job in New Zealand. He's got a disposable camera. It was so far away that it was like, did it actually happen? Did that experience in New Zealand actually happen? Oh, yeah. So what's happened about that? Tell us, before we start the podcast properly, tell me about your New Zealand thing because it sounded so exciting. I'm in NZ Spy. It's NZ Spy, as in New Zealand Spy. And it's a genuinely funny sitcom. It's written by the bloke who is the Taskmaster's assistant in New Zealand Taskmaster. It's written by him and also Rose Matafeo, I think, did quite love writing for it as well.

4:42She's also in it. and it's about the New Zealand spy agency. And it's got that, you know, New Zealand has that kind of very kind of scrappy outsider vibe. And it's set in the 70s as well. So the idea is, and the 70s I think always has that look of like, it's a bit budget. Do you know what I mean? It's a bit crap, the 70s. And basically they're trying to foil a plot against New Zealand by their greatest enemy, Australia, which is is really nice and um and yeah it's basically just uh it's really funny it's like you know when you suddenly you have to do a lot of stuff in your career where you're like i'm doing this for the money this isn't yeah i don't really want to do this this i was like yeah it's really funny yeah and i got offered the part and i was honestly like oh just tell me what's wrong with it tell me like tell me the catch tell me like the way in which it's actually really shit or humiliating yeah i've got to do something horrible oh yeah and i Yeah.

5:40There's got to be something wrong with it. Yeah. And I mean, I think, you know, I would say if there was any catch, it would have just merely been that other people who could have played my part were not available. But that's fine. Joe. That's fine as a catch. Listen, mate. I'm happy with that. I know the fact. I know for a fact I'm not the top of anyone's list. So when a job does come, if everyone was always available, all the time. I'd never work. Yeah, yeah. But that's it. That's what you've got to do. You've got to go in. Here's a little thing that'll make you feel good about that. So have you heard of a little show called Only Fools and Horses?

6:21Just a bit. Just a bit. Just a bit. So the role of Del Boy was originally offered to Jim Broadbent, who turned it down. And I think David Jason was famously third or fourth on the list. And he really wanted to play the part and he had to convince people. He was like, yeah, so really auditioned for it and stuff and he fought for the part. Can you ever imagine anyone else, well, apart from me, playing, no, but you don't like the proper version, playing that part today. No, it is amazing when you think of, so that's how it works. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. As long as you get in and you go, I'm going to show these people that I could have, you know, I could, I could do it.

7:07Yeah. You know, So these things... I was going to say I could do it better than those, but the more I've sort of thought about that. Well, the point is they'll never know. They'll never know. They'll never know. That's it. I mean, that's the beautiful thing. So what is it? Is it six parts? Six parts. Yeah. Half hour? Half hour. And... What about us UK dwellers? Will we ever get to see it, do you think? Well, it's been distributed by BBC Studios, but I'm not really sure what exactly they are. Yeah. Because they are not the quite... Well, we all know. They're the commercial arm of the BBC. Right.

7:44But that means that they acquire things. And also, I think they sometimes make shows for ITV sometimes. Yeah, you see that all the time. And vice versa. You see something on the BBC and it says ITV Studios. It's really weird. There's some cross-pollination there. But I assume it'll be on... Initially, it'll be on NZTV, which is the broadcaster in New Zealand. right or not not the they got the one they got more than one obviously they're you know they're a fully fledged country and they're right i'm not no one's denying that they've got you know they're really they're really they're doing very well now they'll all gather around the tv they will do yeah they have and they've got their own little government and everything and i don't know i don't think it's got many i think we still sort of but you know but like they've got you know they're really you know i think we as as the united kingdom we can be very proud of new zealand and they've really come along.

8:39No, they're amazing. They're going to find that really funny. It's really... I never got to go there. I'm gutted. Yeah, you were saying you didn't get to go on the... When we were doing the press tour, I had to come home because it was my kid's first birthday. So I had to come all the way home. We were in Australia. We were there. Just another little bit. Yeah. That's the thing. It's quite a long way from Australia and Australia is already like another planet. But it's closer to Australia than it is the UK. You're right about that. So if you're in Australia, you might as well change up your plans or whatever to just go and check out New Zealand before you head back home.

9:20Well, I was in New Zealand, didn't go to the South Island. Just... No point. It is hard though because... Where did they do Lord of the Rings? That's South Island. That was it. But there's also a Hobbiton world in the North Island. so that's nothing to do with the Lord of the Rings set though nah I think the idea is that people and we didn't go there either they remember they remember one of the things people there was a lot of there was a lot of encouragement to kind of go to the South Island because it's very very beautiful but we were filming in Auckland which is the biggest city so it's not the capital again it's one of these it's never the capital's never the biggest city well apart from London it's quite but it seems to be often the case that like the capital's like somewhere over there like Sydney Sydney Yeah.

10:05I was like, what's the capital of Australia? It's obviously Sydney. It's the one that everyone mentions. No way. Is it Cairns or something, isn't it? Canberra. Canberra. Still don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what's the capital of Brazil? Brasilia. Again, modern, like, no one really, you know, I'm sure it's very nice. I like that. That makes sense. Yeah. Capital Brazil, Brasilia. Capital of Mexico. Mexico City. Mexico City. No, but Brazil has got the name, but like you would assume that the two biggest cities, the two ones that I would think of are Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. Sao Paulo. Did I try and do a little?

10:44No, I'm just thinking. Sao Paulo. I was just waiting for you to say Rio de Janeiro. Rio de Janeiro. Which is one of my favorite words to say. Rio de Janeiro, yeah. Rio de Janeiro. But no, it's, and I suppose you could say America a bit, like, you know, New York, you might think is the capital. No. Maybe LA. Yeah, it's Washington. Washington, D.C. Yeah, which is not the same as Washington State. No, it's not. Again, they should have gone America City. Yeah, yeah. Well, what does it mean, Washington, like, Del Capito? I don't know what the D.C. stands for, actually. I think I feel like it's something like Latin or something.

11:23And it's there because it's midway between two other places. Is it Philadelphia and New York, do you think? yes it might be because well Philadelphia is where they had the Constitutional Convention yeah but there's also was it I think Virginia Virginia I feel like Virginia was somewhere isn't Virginia really close to Washington though it's not like midway what's the main what's the capital state city of Virginia where does American dad live where does he live something falls Oh yeah, go on District of Columbia Oh yeah I always thought it was like Da Capital Da Capital I think I really did think it was that It's like Washington Da Capital No, I think I really did think it was that District of Columbia, of course it is Langley Falls Langley Falls Yeah That's the fictional town where American Dad Oh, it's a fictional town I thought it was real.

12:28It's what you'll know, the capital of Virginia. Yeah. Can I just say, speaking of fictional places, we watch quite a lot of Bluey, because our daughter. Do you know who loves Bluey? You know how it's, by the way, quickly. You, Claire? No, my dog. Fucking loves it. It's mostly really good for dogs. It's a very thing for colour. Oh, really? Jude and the dog sit there watching Bluey together. And also, what's amazing is it's about dogs. Yeah. Anyway, I caught Hannah Googling where do they film Bluey? Because she wants to move there. Right. Because she thinks it looks really nice. It's a cartoon, right?

13:05Well, it's a cartoon about dogs. And also, aren't they Australian? And it's in Australia. Yeah. I think she knew that. I think she literally Googled where in Brisbane do they film Bluey? Right. Because she thinks that cul-de-sac looks really nice. And I think she's literally like on Zoopla. Like, well, how much is an average house on that street? I saw a parody account of Bluey before I knew what actual Bluey was. I'd heard about this phenomenon, Bluey. Yeah. It's really sort of taken off this Bluey thing. Yeah. That's what I've been hearing. That's the stuff. Yeah. And it came up like on Instagram or YouTube or something for me.

13:40And it was like, oh, fuck off, dad. And I was like, this is well funny. This is really funny. I was like, oh, I get it now because it looks like a kid's show. It looks like a kid's show. Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. Oh, fuck you, man. And they're like, doing all this. Do you remember a television program called Pugwall? No, Pugwall. Do you remember that, Katie? Yeah. It was about, so real world, not animation, about a young man called Pugwall fronting a little band known as the Orange Organics. And it was just about him trying to get famous. I don't know this. And they had one song and it went, Nobody tells me what to do.

14:20No, not me Nobody tells me what to say Can't you see I've got a dream I'm gonna make it If there's a chance I'm gonna take it Do-do, do-do-do-do-do-do Do-do-do-do So basically he had one song Not heard We had one song and it was about the fact that he was in a band Yeah 1989 89, yeah And he had a little sister called Marmaloid Marmaloid? I don't know, what are they doing? Toadfish, marmoloid. What are you doing? Is this an Australian TV show? Is that why you're talking about this? It's an Australian TV show. Right, I was going to say, yeah. It's an Australian TV show. Oh, yeah. Fucking Australian kids' TV.

15:02It's fucking odd. I also just think, I have to say, I think Australian TV is just really good. I saw a documentary recently about the, you know, the woman who poisoned those people with mushrooms. Remember that? Erin Paterson. Right. Is she Australian? Yeah. She poisoned her in-laws, basically, with, I mean, we've all been there. We've all been there. Yeah. And I'm just talking about Hannah's cooking. Well, oh. Nah. Yeah, she used Death Cat mushrooms and she poisoned them. Right. And there was a documentary on Netflix, I believe. And it was just very well made. And an Australian production company.

15:48And I just thought, I think, I feel like TV as a whole has got worse recently. I think no one has told Australia. So they keep on having to be like, you've got to be really good to get something made. And you're like, you don't actually, but like, don't tell Australia. Because like, they keep, they think the standard's still really high. Because what else do they do? Around the twist. Around the twist. I don't even know what, I still don't even know. I watched that every fucking day when I was a kid. Still don't really know. It's basically terms of the unexpected. the situation was. Why do they live in a lighthouse?

16:23What's going on there? There's another one that's much like it called Eerie Indiana. I used to love Eerie Indiana. There's something about those sort of tales where you're like. That was on Channel 4. That wasn't even a kid's show, I don't think. I think it was like Young Adult. Yeah. YA. Yeah. YA. YA. Why are you doing that? Eerie Indiana. Yeah. Yeah, that was mental. That was mental. Similar thing, though. And it was. what was the thing? There was a short story author for children who wrote these they all seem to be dipping into the same pool. It was like there was short stories for kids. There was Eerie Indiana.

16:58There was Round the Twist. There's basically Tales of the Unexpected. It's sort of always the same story but somehow Paul Jennings Paul Jennings wrote stories for children as well and they were all about like there was one really weird one about a boy who fancied a girl and then he like killed himself and then she found his face in a rose it's genuinely found his face in a rose yeah like a rose turned up on her doorstep and then she looked at the rose petal and like it was his face yeah it's fucking mental like you're like well that's not it's not for children and it's not for adults oh you're afraid of the dark that was a bit similar as well what was the theme song to Eerie Indiana I feel like it was quite good I just remember him being on his bike riding at night I wish I'd grown up in one of those.

17:46I think I only made like 13 episodes of that thing or something like that. That thing about riding around the neighborhood. The neighborhood at night. A la ET. Yeah, of course. It's that, isn't it? Like going over. Yeah. Remember that? Long summer evenings. Let's cycle around to our friend's house and knock for them. Then let's go down to the abandoned quarry. Do you know what I mean? And let's throw rocks in there. That crazy guy's there again. they say he killed someone 20 years ago and they never found the body. Now he roams the streets. What do you do now? Let's go and have some, what are they called?

18:22Schmores. Schmores. Schmores. Schmores. Schmores, schmores. Let's go for, let's get a malted shake. Yeah, yeah. What is malt? Hannah said this to me literally the other day. She's been talking about Maltesers about three days straight. There was someone out of fridge. Honestly, true. she was 48 hours in she was going what are they made of yeah I still don't know what malt is I said it might be honeycomb and she went oh because that's what no it's not is it oh so she's not going on the internet she's only asking me well that's way more fun than just going on she's doing the fact up she's literally she's gone full fact up she's gone full fact up I think she's turned off the internet she's really fact up she's really fact up she's just asking me now yeah she's obsessed with she's coming with a new round for MasterChef but that's what they call Maltesers in America didn't they chocolate malt balls I think.

19:14All right. But I don't know what malt is. It's not bad. They get a shake, don't they? Like if you were in the 50s. If you were in the T-Birds or something, you'd go for a malt. Oh, okay. You'd put up in your big car. Yeah. One of those long American cars. Yeah, your big Chevy. Are you opening the door to get out of the car? Don't be so stupid. Just leaping over the door. Yeah, absolutely. Of course. Just swiveling. Yeah. Hey, hon, says the waitress. Yeah, yeah. the usual, you bet. Yeah. And make it snappy. And then some stuffy police officer will come in and go, hey, remember you kids. Officer Grumble.

19:53Yeah. I told you kids not to. You kids get out of here. Scram. You heard me. Get lost. That's right. Hit the road. Then we will jump in the car. We open the door this time. No. Come on. In fact, In fact, if I'm not driving the car, if I'm the sort of, I'm not one of the tough guys, but if I'm the comedy. Yeah, the comedy guy. Yeah, the comedic relief guy. Yeah. I'll wait for the car to start moving and then I'll jump in. Yeah. And it pulls away. Yeah. Cloud of dust. And my legs will wiggle. Yeah.

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23:06oh i'd love to live in the 50s i know absolutely fantastic it was racist though and it was quite it was quite racist and um i think that's what you don't really see as much um yeah you you think about all the fun stuff about the you pick and choose you do you've got a memory i mean and it's not even a memory it's like it's it's a kind of but then you forget about all the really social injustice yeah but people do the same i think with diet now there's a real sort of um there's some real momentum behind us having um a natural diet yeah uh which is you know fine yeah but also then sort of uh there's a real suspicion about um medicine and so it's like i'm just gonna eat what our ancestors used to eat 200 000 years ago and i'm not gonna have any medicine and um but we've covered this it wasn't what our ancestors were eating because we've bred things yeah so if you're buying a banana from the supermarket that is not what a banana looked like yeah but i would but i would argue like early humans i would argue like but like 200 000 years ago that's why when they got to 38 they died it's all the medicine and all the sort of yeah well also if you were going that sort of modern technology that keep that's keep giving us these long lives on on average well it it i'm i'm um listening to an audiobook at the moment um to be precise go on and it's all about uh uh well it actually is about civilizational collapse is what it's about but one of the points that the author makes is that he's australian as well just fyi very aussie this very aussie um is that like 99 of history happened before we really lived in things that we would now think of as like civilized structures like cities and so just very briefly on the diet point the the lifestyle that humans would have had before they became sedentary and by sedentary i don't mean sitting around all day i just mean living in the same point on the map all year round yeah the the diet that they would have had then it's quite likely that it was a lot better for them it's quite likely that it was a much more mixed diet because it was foraging and hunting and like different things and always moving yeah um whereas in general when people became in a fixed place all year round it was because they were tending a crop yeah and that crop was it would have been a basic crop like wheat we're only talking like what 10 000 years yeah uh yeah the first like something like for a city yeah like probably like single units of thousands of years so like whereas actually you've like homo sapiens only like 200 000 years ago there there were actually other types of um humans yeah other breeds and then it's other breeds yeah and then it's like oh it's really sad we don't have them anymore i'd love to see them around fascinating wouldn't it well i don't know man we did interbreed with them a bit so yeah there's people with yeah there's people with neanderthal in them and stuff.

26:42So there is this sense that like what we tend to, as far as I can tell, thus far his basic point is

26:53everything that, this is kind of moving away from the food thing a bit, but everything that we think of as like civilization, what we basically mean is like fixed structures, stuff that we can see, like Rome is basically big stuff that's been left over. But when groups of people have got to the point where they're building that stuff, in general, it's because the society has become very, very unequal. So what's happening is that one priestly class, say, is spending all its time building temples for itself, or tombs for itself, or having grand burials where everybody has to collect incredibly rare types of things from many, many, many miles away just for this one important person's burial.

27:34and that's the stuff that when we look back we think oh well this is civilization they were getting civilized but this sort of point is that isn't really the evidence of anything other than inequality and in civil and in groups of people a long time ago often quite soon after that sort of stuff starts appearing the big temples and the big tombs and the grand burials the whole thing falls apart either because the people who are realize that their lives are getting worse because a group at the top are taking all the resources either the people either everyone else basically just attacks the elite and burns all their buildings down or they just leave they literally just leave, they abandon the site and it just makes you think really differently about basically we kind of think if a group of people doesn't leave behind any permanent structures that we can kind of point to and go there you go we sort of think they haven't attained a level of civilisation but actually normally that stuff is primarily evidence of inequality.

28:29And if you think of the pyramids, the pyramid is basically loads and loads of slaves making one rich bloke's grave. That's basically what that is. When they actually paid. Yeah, but I imagine they had worse lives. Worse lives. And then the sea people turned up. Well, that's right. Atlantis, you're talking about? No, no, no. That's what they call them, the sea people. You know after the collapse of the Bronze Age? Yeah. where like the written word sort of disappears. There's a massive reset before then things start coming back again. And Egypt talk about it. There's some bits of evidence and bits of writing and they're just called the sea people and we don't know anything else about them.

29:17We don't know anything about them. Apart from there was these groups of people for one reason or another, they were displaced. Like you say, inequality, maybe the poor harvest and stuff. And they just went on a rampage and just toppled Egypt at the time as well. It had already been going for thousands of years. It was a huge, well-established sort of thing. But they're just called the sea people. And historians just do not really know what the sea people are. They just came on. They were in their ships. They came in. Sort of tore it all down. Yeah. My God. It's amazing, isn't it? And that's all kind of recorded in hieroglyphics and stuff.

30:03Yeah, or ancient scriptures or stuff, because it wasn't just the Egyptians. It was the... There was also some people. Who were they? Sumerians? Yeah. Sumerians? To the east of Egypt, they were sort of two superpowers almost. I mean, it's always the same. It's always the fucking same. Two superpowers. Yeah. everyone else gets fucking dragged into it and then we all go back to not knowing how to read or write anymore and stuff it's going to happen Joe you know the Einstein quote what's that I don't know what weapons the third world war will be fought with but the fourth world war will be fought with sticks and stones how about Einstein there we go they said it's just a big pair of tits Joe and James Joe and James Joe and James Joe and James.

30:58Fact up again. Joe and James, Joe and James, Joe and James, Joe and James, fact up. Hey, welcome to Joe and James fact up. Each week we will be bringing facts to one another that we deem interesting and our policy is the more interesting, the more true it is. We'll also dig into the weird things that you like to think are true but don't want to research in a segment that we're calling Fact Check. so if you do want to send in your facts our email is hello at joe and james pod.com our whatsapp is 07822034330 and you can also follow us on our socials at joe and james pod and don't forget that you can watch all our episodes in full on youtube just search for joe and james fact up now let's get fact up there's also the form isn't there which is weird because we don't say about the form do we oh yeah there's this form there's this form that like I know nothing about this it's like this show has another kind of analogue life there's some sort of link you can get in touch on the internet I think it's in the description there's some sort of link and you can fill out a form and it just comes to us can we get PO Box I'd really like to just go back to post oh you don't want a PO Box honestly that's such a you can go and unlock it yeah who can be arsed who can be arsed for that nonsense it's a good way to get free shit though yeah like companies just send you stuff.

32:20Well, that's what that's what I'm saying. Right. OK. Well, we'll look at it. Well, maybe we'll yeah. Actually, I've convinced can we just get a lock up? Yeah, lock up and people can just put anything they want in. We could get stuff delivered to I don't want to give out the studio address. In case that bloke who I didn't have a picture with you've got to let that go. Beats me up. He's not going to beat you up. He's like, don't have time for a picture. Who the fuck do you think you are? Yeah, I think you've No, you're obviously, you're remorseful. Oh, I regret. I'm just in deep regret. It's going to take me until tomorrow before I get over this.

32:57I don't think you'll ever get over it. No, I need a sleep. I need one sleep and then tomorrow some time will have gone and I'll finally forget about that poor bloke that asked me for a picture. But because I'm so busy and important, I couldn't spend 12 seconds just to give some nice guy a picture. He could have been terminally ill. Oh, Joe, shut up. Oh, dear. Right, let's carry on. Look, it's all right. Keep calm and carry on. God. Oh, yes. Jesus. Keep calm and carry on. People love that, don't they? They did, didn't they? That was around for a while. Oh, I liked it when people put, like, keep calm and do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

33:38Yeah, keep calm and play video games. Yeah, yeah. Aye. I don't think we did enough of those. No, no, I think we did. I think that was a problem. And we should do a few more. It had its moment. Keep calm and do versions of keep calm and carry on. Yeah. Right. You've been sending us some really fucked up stuff for us to discuss. Can I say, it's actually the people who are kind of getting in contact, they are the ones now keeping this show afloat. Yeah. We haven't got anything. Our stuff is absolute dog shit. And then they are the ones who actually - That's how I operate with everything I do. Yeah.

34:12Yeah. I used to do a live broadcast of me playing video games on the internet every day. And I started to learn that the regular people that would watch and get involved in the chat, and then I'd eventually pull them in so that I could talk to them on headphones and the broadcast could hear the conversations we were having. I learned that I had like about a dozen of these incredible characters, really funny, a bit bizarre, weird backstories, but genuinely quite warm and friendly. And if they didn't turn up to a stream, I'd be like, I've got to do it six hours ago. How the fuck am I going to get through this now?

35:01The cast haven't turned up. Yeah. And they did. they became cast members and that's how that's how I think some just stuck in traditional yeah like when we were talking about this podcast you thought we were going to do six episodes and then oh yeah Joe's like alright we'll do six episodes of that and then we'll maybe we'll get another series next year or something yeah no it doesn't work like that anymore I was like no you do one every week until you die yeah absolutely just but yeah no that's how we've that's how I've always operated I think just people are more interesting people are more interesting than generally, even though you're - As we've covered, we've already started to repeat stuff.

35:42No, but yeah, yeah. But also, even though you're not supposed to know this and you're supposed to think the complete opposite purely because of marketing and propaganda, actors, not so much musicians, but actors especially, are boring. I know they're supposed to be really interesting people, but I think you'll find nine times out of ten most actors don't and I'm one of these people generally just don't really have a personality which is why they want to become an actor in the first place I also think it can help because you're just like I'd like to be someone else than me for a little while but I also think that acting is to a large extent about focusing and I think is a little bit like sport in that regard and I think that sometimes dealing with pressure and it helps if you are able to focus.

36:37And sometimes focus is helped by trying to make yourself feel bored, I think. Like I used to think, like whenever I'd watch... Gone, I've gone on that one. Okay, all right. No, so I've done that quite badly. But like, say you're taking a penalty in a penalty shootout. Yes. The best possible mentality you can have is, I actually literally don't care whether I score or not. That's the mindset you should be, you should genuinely be like, I find both outcomes completely boring. Yeah. Like it's really, because it's not going to really, really wanting something to happen. It's just going to screw you up.

37:12And, you know, and I always used to remember like, um, you know, like watching Henman who never managed to quite. Yeah. And now this sounds like I'm having a go at Murray, which I'm not. Tiger too. All right. But I did think that like, there was so much pressure on him. Yeah. And it was, and the commentators were always going, what he needs to do is just think about how much this means. and just desperately try and shut all that out. And you'd be like, no, that's ridiculous. Like if he could hear you, it would be a disaster for him. It would be a disaster. And that's like, come on, just please try and do it this once.

37:44It means so much. You've actually got to be like, if you win, no one fucking cares. If you lose, no one fucking cares. It doesn't really matter. You're going to die. Everyone's going to die. Like then you're more likely to win. A bit more zen about it. Yeah. And I suppose what I'm saying is I would say you need to put yourself into a mindset where you're a bit bored. Isn't that Buddhism? Isn't that the whole of Buddhism? Are they bored? I'm not sure they're bored. The bloke sat by a tree for years. But I think the point is he wasn't bored. No, but I think through boredom, he became enlightened.

38:21Is that right? Yeah. I had a man talking to the podcast who'd spent years just staring at a wall, asking himself, what is this? What is this? I feel like you've told me that before. Yeah. As I say, we've repeated. But I'm trying to help you get bored. There was a craze. I was doing my best. I think it was in the Middle Ages where people would just sit on the top of pillars for ages. The Middle Ages were fucking mental. The people who got themselves bricked into the walls of churches. What are you doing? Yeah. What the fuck are you doing? What the fuck has got into you? What are you doing? Who is the Pope that got everyone all whipped up for the First Crusade?

39:03His name's brilliant. Urban. Urban. Oh, yeah. It's great. Because some of the names of the Popes, you're like, innocent. Right, fine. Yeah. Boniface, which I think is like beneficent, I guess. Right. But then urban. Yeah. What about rural? Where's rural? Where's he come in? Pope rural. But that sitting on top of stuff. Pope suburban. Fad came back in the 1920s in America. Bloody hell. There was like a bloke that did it and he sat outside like, what's the department store called in New York? Selfridges? Macy's. He sat outside of Macy's or something like that. And it was like a tourist attraction and it got people to go into the shop.

39:56Yeah. What's funny about that is I assume it was meant to be a protest at like commercialisation. No, no, no. No, it wasn't. No, because then he commercialised it. He went on tour. And then a couple of other people started doing it. And I think it was, you know, depression, sort of, there wasn't much to do. And people started going to see blokes on top of poles that would sit there for like two days or something. Incredible. I think someone died doing it and then they had to stop. Then they put an end to it. Anyway, we've got a message here from Lawrence. Oh, it's another would you rather. Let's find out what Lawrence has got to say.

40:39All right, boys. Love the podcast. This is day one. Very, very good. My name is Lawrence and I really liked something you did a couple of episodes ago where you did a would you rather. and there's one that again has plagued my and my friendships uh chats for quite some time because we can't get to a definitive answer so the would you rather is every time you laugh you piss yourself or every time you cough you shit yourself now the amount of poo and piss is like a shot size amount so okay you know do with that information what you will but that is how much is coming out every single time. And it's every individual one of the things that you do.

41:22So every little, you just shoot yourself. Oh, that's just clearing your throat. Yeah. Let me know what you think. That's a tough one. That is a tough one. I don't know. I don't know what I'd rather. I don't know what I'd do more, laugh or cough. I feel like I do both quite a lot. That would really disrupt my life. Yeah. Either of those would be a real problem for me. Wow, that's a good one, Lawrence. Oh, I don't know. I genuinely don't know. I honestly, in my head, I'm like, if it's one or the other, you pick for me. Because they both sound equally awful. I don't want to. I probably would stop laughing.

42:07If I had that problem, I probably would. My life would be less of a laugh. Yeah. So I would probably laugh less. God, that's a good one. It's a really good one. I'd probably go laugh. I just had to become a really serious person. I'd probably go laugh as well because pissing is... I feel like piss is easier to deal with than poo. Yeah, the shit is like... You can deal with... I didn't mind... When the boys were babies, I didn't mind doing the nappy if it was a piss. But when it was a poo... yeah claire would be able to do it like one-handed yeah but i'd have to like really and i i always got told off using too many wipes as well but i needed to like i would just how many how many would claire use she would fucking one she would get one wipe and then fold it and then fold like in the end it'd be like a tiny piece of wipe that she'd folded about 50 times just to clean up i was like i was once told a bit of shit on my thumb or something like that i'd freak out so it would just be one wipe and it would just go i'd just get rid of it straight away yeah i was once told that in the army they teach you a technique for wiping your bum with a single sheet of paper hang on isn't this is this pilkinson i don't think it is this is just my my school but you make it into a cone and then you wrap you put it on your finger and then you use that no hang on a minute don't you push your fingers through it or something.

43:41I feel like that's Pilkington. I feel like Pilkington talks about that at some point. If you're pushing your fingers through it, you might as well not have the paper there at all. Yeah, and I think that's what they were talking about. Yeah, Pilkington's just, he's got the wrong end of the stick. Yeah. This is a really, really devious one from Lawrence. Oh, this is horrible from Lawrence, yeah. It's really, really difficult. I mean, I can't imagine what these discussions really are because I think it probably has to be. you can stop laughing. Smile with your eyes. Do you know what I mean? You can smile with your eyes.

44:17The quiet enjoyment. You're just going to have to become a very wry person. You just have to be wry from then on. I feel like I could hold a coffin better than I could hold a laughing. I feel like if I've got to cough, I could, if I was at home, make it to a toilet. To then cough and do my cough on the toilet. Oh, yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't have an answer for that one. I'm stumped. Fine. I'm absolutely stumped. it's it's it's um i think it's the the most um that's yeah it's the most devilish one that's the worst one we've had yeah yeah it's really really hard both of them evil they're both horrible um it does seem like some sort of story from the bible or something yeah yeah went out to the desert and he had to choose yeah yeah both were just as evil as the as the other Sorry Lawrence We've let you down there mate But that's a really good one And do you know what I don't think we have let you down Because it's that kind of discussion That makes the pub When you're with your mates And you said that this has been a big Heated debate And you want that Yeah we're going to have as the kind of council We're just going to have to put this Back to the public We're going to throw this back to the populace and you're just going to have to have a referendum, I think.

45:57You know, leave me out of it. Yeah, I'm a collective and charity. Yeah. You know, if there was a difference, mine was improvised, but I don't think you should get more money for that. Money's for both laugh or cough. Right, let's talk about this week's facts. Jesus, okay. Right. So this week, it is David Attenborough's 100th birthday. Yeah. Guy's 100. He's a legend. We love him. So we are going to do some facts about Attenborough. Yes. I've got some stuff about him now. The thing, we all know Attenborough as an incredible broadcaster and his nature stuff, right? Yeah. That's what I certainly know him from.

46:42But I think the really fascinating thing about Attenborough that I love is that he was once in charge of BBC Two. Yeah. From 1965 to 1969. Yes. And he'd done some really, really great stuff. He transformed BBC Two into the creative channel, which was, I suppose, I don't know if it still is anymore, but even up until very recently. So like when The Office, for example, became such a big hit and they wanted to do another series of that, the BBC was saying, we want to move it to the BBC One, to the big boy channel. And they said, no, we're BBC Two. This is where we like to sit. This is where it's sort of a bit alternative and a bit.

47:29It was seen as a bit more intellectual. I think. Do you reckon? I think so. BBC Two. Yeah. I think it was seen as a bit more intellectual. A bit less mainstream. A bit less mainstream. But Attenborough deliberately positioned BBC Two as more experimental and highbrow than BBC One. Under his leadership, it became known for bold intellectual and niche programming, everything from opera and philosophy to cutting edge documentaries. He introduced colour TV to Britain. One of his biggest legacies, overseeing the launch of colour television in the UK in 1967. The first official colour broadcast on BBC Two was, Joe?

48:06Pot Black. It was Wimbledon. That's what I'm saying. Hitting that black ball around. Exactly. Over the net. This move helped push the entire country towards colour TV adoption. And BBC Two became the testing ground before BBC One followed. Yeah. He'd already been doing wildlife stuff before this. And he nearly didn't return to it at all. During this period, Attenborough wasn't focused on nature programmes. He was more of an executive than a presenter. and it looked like his career might stay in management rather than the wildlife storytelling he's now famous for. Commissioned some amazing stuff as well.

48:43He did. I'm getting to that now. He greenlit Monty Python. Unbelievable. Attenborough played a key role in approving Monty Python's Flying Circus. The show was considered strange and risky. Many executives didn't understand it, but Attenborough backed it anyway, helping launch one of the most influential comedy shows ever. He was the youngest controller in BBC history. Attenborough was just 39. Oh, no, I'm 39 this year. Oh, I've got to do some shit. I've got to do some stuff. The worst thing is when you're watching that fucking Get Back documentary of the Beatles and, like, Paul McCartney's 26 or something, and you're like, oh, for fuck's sake, I've done nothing.

49:27Yeah, I know. It's horrible. He pushed for ambitious, risky ideas. He loved experimental formats and unusual subjects and longer, more in-depth programs. That risk-taking DNA still influences BBC Two today. And he turned down becoming Director General. After his success, he was offered the chance to rise even higher in the BBC hierarchy, but he turned it down. Why? Because he missed making programs himself, which ultimately led him back to creating the legendary nature series that we know today. he's a legend and hopefully he's good he's alright yeah yeah well a hundred more years I say I say yeah just do what's necessary to you know get him into a computer or whatever yeah just keep keep him alive just do it keep him alive whatever we need must stay alive exoskeleton yeah just a head in the jar head in the jar or in the tummy the head could be in the tummy like in turtles yeah that's Amber's head that was weird wasn't it What the hell was that about?

50:32It was like a little sort of octopus. Crang? Yeah, I think so. That's what I want anyway. The future for Attenborough. He's given to nature. Now nature gives back to him. Donating bodies, bits of other creatures. I'd give him a bit. Back he comes to life. I'd give him one of my body parts. I don't know. I don't think if I'd... Yeah, whatever he wants. He can do. You know, up to and including one lung. oh yeah someone I can buy in yeah I love the guitar well not the guitar someone I can someone I can reorder but he can have what he wants and you know he can yeah so yeah pay for paper there we go that was my little fact really nice thank you James it was just a sort of it was just talking about his but it was great yeah a great guy and a very important figure and I think for lots of people for all sorts of different reasons so yeah Good stuff.

51:32Right, should we do fact check? It's time for fact check. We'll be reading a fact or a question that you'd like us to get to the bottom of. Then we're going to have a good old think during the break, and we'll come back and let you know how true it feels to us to decide if it passes our fact check. Okay, so this week's fact check comes from Tobias. So we've now, it doesn't, just because it's not Joe or James, it doesn't have to be like, you know, what I would describe as a highfalutin name. Yeah, we've gone Lawrence and Tobias now. Yeah. So we've now, they don't have to be members of the gentry.

52:06It's just regular, I just want regular guys. Yeah. I mean, Lawrence was, I don't remember the gentry was he was asking about piss and shit. Yeah, he was. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, what's Tobias got to say for it? Hello, Joe and James, massive fan of the pod. Here's one for you. As someone with an intense fear of sharks, I was often soothed by supposed responsible adults as a youth by being told that more people were killed. by coconuts falling on your head than sharks. Sharks falling on your head or just sharks? Fact or totally bollocks. Also interested to hear what your biggest fears, irrational or otherwise are.

52:42Big love, Tobias. Well, interesting. Thank you, Tobias. And we're going to get on the case and we'll be back with the facts stats.

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55:04Welcome back. Welcome back to Joe and James Facts Up. We were just fact checking on the behalf of Tobias, fact checking, talking about it, who asked, are more people killed by coconuts than sharks now? Okay. I think that's true. I think it's the law of averages thing. But I will tell you, those things, those little sayings, because it's like, oh, you're more likely to be killed by a donkey than a shark or something like that, right? Hippos are often... They're the deadliest animal on the planet, I think. I think there's more deaths, more human deaths by the hands of the evil hippo than any other animal on the planet.

55:48but um those things don't make me feel better because it used to be like oh you you're more likely to get run over than you are to die in a plane crash but i always used to think yeah but if i got on a plane as many times as i did across the road yeah then surely i would it'd be more likely i'd die in a plane crash yeah yeah it's only because across the road dozens of times a day and it's maybe also you're like oh now i'm worried about that as well yeah so those things never made me feel there um but can i just say i feel like being killed by a shark would be far more unpleasant than being killed by coconut yeah i mean i would say i don't think that's irrational either because i'm terrified of sharks i don't really like going in the sea ever because i always feel like there's a shark there no matter where i am on the planet it could be like the seaside in the UK yeah I'll be like oh yeah might be a shark here somewhere um and it's always big news isn't it yeah if a shark is spotted off the coast of Britain yeah it's like whoa yeah watch out yeah the armada yeah yeah they're coming um but I don't think being afraid of a shark is irrational at all whatsoever it's like being afraid of a lion yeah yeah Tobias is saying it's an irrational fear but I got teased I went on holiday with my mum and dad years ago when I was a kid, I think I was about 14, 15 and we went on one of those boat excursions where you spend a day on a boat and then you stop at certain places to jump in the sea have a bit of lunch or whatever you stop on a beach and you have a drink and we were on this boat and in the distance were a load of little shark fins coming out of the water, like Jaws style and I was like, right and they sort of parked the boat and the sharks were out to sea and people were jumping in the water sort of nearer the coast, nearer the cove.

57:53There was like a rocky bit. And the blokes that were running the ship were like, oh, you're not jumping in? You're not jumping in? And I went, oh, it's just because there's all those sharks over there. And they were going, oh, he's scared of sharks. Yeah. Right? And I was like, yeah. They went to me, don't worry, we're telling people to jump over this side of the boat. And I was going, I don't think the sharks get the idea, get the concept that they can't come around the other side of the boat. Come around the other side of the boat. Yeah. But also, the boat wasn't anchored or anything. They didn't like lower an anchor.

58:29And it just eventually, for about 45 minutes, just turned. And all these people at the other side of the boat were just with the side of the sharks. Yeah. Jumping to the sharks' mouths. But they were going, yeah, they were going, oh, like probably like to the piss out of me. Because there was loads of other like families and stuff. And they were going, oh, he's scared. He's scared of the sharks, everyone. And I was going, yeah. I was like, what? What's wrong with that? Of course. What's wrong with, yeah, I am scared of sharks. What does that? Oh, what, I'm just supposed to let them eat me to show how tough I am.

59:04Yeah, I know. I was never sure what. if I'd had my leg bitten off and I come on the ship would they go don't you dare cry don't start crying now yeah this can go one of two ways yeah either you come out of this well yeah we can all still have a really nice rest of the day or what or what do you need us to stop yeah and we've got to take you to the hospital or whatever you haven't been bitten by a shark this is actually an opportunity to show your character yeah but I do think I do think more people are killed by coconuts and sharks, yeah. I think it's probably how many people are killed by sharks a year.

59:43I reckon... A bit more or something? I reckon a dozen at the most recorded shark fatalities. I think it's about 30 or something like that for the hippo. They are bastards, aren't they? I saw a... I just still think hippopotamus is such a friendly word. And they look friendly as well. They look like they're made out of rubber or something. They do, yeah. They look like big toys. It's exactly the same thing as the Marshmallow Man. In Ghostbusters, yeah, Mr. Staypuff. Yeah, Mr. Staypuff, yeah. But I saw an illustration of a hippo without its skin. And the idea was that it was a post on Instagram.

1:00:31It was just to sort of let you know. they're not just sort of like fat lazy things right because that's what they look like don't they yeah they look like they're like big fat things yeah but they're not fat right all of that is muscle yeah okay all of that is pure muscle you don't get fat animals in the world no that's true you don't just get like fat animals that are just yeah yeah that are greedy bastards um and it was it was literally like just a warning they're not just like fat lazy animals they're great big powerful yes pure muscle athletes they look like something out of soft play yeah you'd think yeah so there's something that your toddler can bounce off yeah they look like the sort of stuff that those really bouncy balls are made out of yeah that's right I think that's what they're made out of yeah they just chop up hippos yeah yeah but I do think I think how many people are killed by coconuts a year?

1:01:34I reckon there's about... I reckon there's a shockingly high amount of people. It happened to Keith Richards, didn't it? He got hit by a coconut. He's still alive. He's still alive, yeah, because nothing can kill him. But I think he was in a bad way for a while after he got hit by a coconut there. What are we saying, Joe? I'm saying fact. More people were killed by coconuts than sharks. Fact. I think it's fact because the coconut,

1:02:10it's just a much more likely scenario that you're walking under a tree. Law of averages. Yeah, it is law of averages. But let's just say... I think people around coconuts a lot more. In fact, I think more people are probably killed in a supermarket by a coconut than a shark. Just someone getting angry and lobbing a coconut would be more likely than you getting killed by a shark. So think about that next time you go to Asda or something. I have to say, I also feel... You might not come out again. I also feel sad for people who have been killed by coconuts because the only thing that they're remembered for is being part of this rhetorical device to make people not worry about being killed by sharks.

1:02:50So every time the funeral of someone who's been killed by a coconut, they'll be like, but on the other hand, you are going to help to assuage a young man's fears about being killed by a shark. So I kind of think that the coconut, if you get killed by a coconut. Wasn't there a bloke that died from mooning someone out a window? When he fell out? Yeah. Oh, no. I think they talk about that. Who died, the moonie or the mooner? The mooner. The mooner. I think Gervais talks about that as well. Oh, God. I'm going fact, Joe. Yeah, but he, okay, so we're saying fact, but also he has asked what our biggest fears of rational or otherwise are.

1:03:25Oh, mine are quite rational, I think. Yeah, sharks. I don't, I'm, yeah, terrified of sharks but I would love to get in a cage. With a shark outside? With a shark outside, yeah. I wouldn't have a, yeah. Just a cage in general. No, I'd like to get in, I'd love to get in a cage and see a shark. I think it'd be an incredible experience. It would terrify me. I feel like I could be safe in the cage though. They're not going to. I've seen too many shark horror films. Some of those cages have got great big holes in them. And you're like, mate, we should really find out, actually. Did you want to do my fears?

1:04:03Oh, yeah. Well, how long ago? Okay, well, okay, snakes, I suppose. I don't like snakes. You don't like snakes? I don't like snakes. I don't mind a snake. The only fear I've got about a snake, and it's something that I think about maybe twice a week, is if I caught, say you've got a rattle bat, what are they called? Rattlesnake or a diamondback rattlesnake or something like that incredibly poisonous and you've got him by just behind his head I'd say neck but it's all neck it's all neck isn't it so he can't bite you and right now you've got him like this nothing he's no threat to you now but now what do you do?

1:04:47do you just hold him for the rest of your life? Cage. How? If you put down or if you like, there's a risk. If you move or make a sudden movement or you manage to wriggle a bit, what do you do once you've got him by the head? If he's life or death. You haven't got a tranquilizer. How many times have you got tranquilizers on you while you're out and about? More than you think. More than I think. Mongoose. That's the other option. They love them, don't they? Yeah, they have a good old fight with them. They are not. You'd have to just lob it, wouldn't you? You'd have to just really give it a really big throw.

1:05:29Yeah. And then go in the other direction. And then it'd go... Well, it explodes. But snakes. And then you're running and it's going to... Behind you. Snakes. Is there any reason? I'm still slithery. Is it religious? no it's not but i mean it's weird that the snake is chosen at that point because it's like obviously there's something about and we don't like yeah don't babies have a sort of inherent fear of snakes or something i think they vaguely remember some sort of experiment where babies is it that they don't touch grass or something like that babies won't if you hold a baby over grass and you go to put it down they'll lift their legs up and they won't there's some sort of thing about babies and snakes.

1:06:21I can't remember what it is. And that's why this podcast is so good. Yeah. Well. Shall I fact check? Yeah. Yeah. I want how many shark deaths there are a year and how many coconut deaths. Okay. So let's clear this up. Shark attacks cause roughly five to 10 deaths. So you said 12, not far off. Yeah. And then it says it's often quoted that falling coconuts kill around 150 people. Yeah. But then it also says it's likely to have been exaggerated because of the urban legend that they kill more than sharks. Pope Urban. Huh? Pope Urban, yes. Again, Pope Urban spreading propaganda. Yeah, it's... He's never liked coconuts.

1:07:11He's always had a problem with coconuts. We need to take back Jerusalem. and also kill as many coconuts along the way as you can. Well, obviously, you know, the Garden of Eden, that was all. It was a coconut. It was a coconut tree and then he blames that apparently. Was it? No, I'm joking. No, I don't know. I mean, well, I mean. Well, there we go. But it is true. Yeah. It is true. Even if they're exaggerated, I think it's safe to say more people are killed by coconuts than sharks. Hey, listen, if you've got a fact that you'd like us to check, head to our episode's description for all the ways to get in touch.

1:07:48Joe. Yes. It's your turn for Attenborough Fact. Okay. So, I mean, it's a similar, I think we're both kind of interested in, maybe because of our work, for his period at BBC Two. Yeah. Now, what Attenborough did was he, as you say, he came and he took over and one of the things he did was he got rid of BBC Two's mascot and it was a kangaroo. So I looked into this. In fact, it was two kangaroos. They're called Hullabaloo and Custard. And Attenborough, you know, for all his credentials of liking animals, he scrapped the kangaroos. Culled them. He said they're a bit silly. Right. And I think if you are trying to be an intellectual channel, you can't say, well, the face of our channel is two kangaroos called Hullabaloo and Custard.

1:08:35Yeah. That is very BBC One. He had a point, yeah. Yeah, that's very BBC One. but I can see where BBC where the BBC were coming from because they were like yeah because you think oh the BBC BBC 2 kangaroo that's going to take off that's going to be a thing yeah you can no but we'll sell kangaroos stuff oh I see yeah no but Atomber said no it's silly I think he thought it was silly yeah probably right he doesn't like people taking the piss out of animals either does he no he probably thought this isn't very respectful yeah yeah yeah I think he probably I believe one was a small kangaroo coming out of the It was a Joey.

1:09:14the mother's pouch. Yeah. It was a Joey. Yeah. It was a Joey. I don't know which way around it was. I mean, somebody knows, but you know, it's not my job to know. Do you know what I mean? No. So, and so what happened is that, and then BBC Two on its launch night, it was this sort of famous debacle where they were going to launch BBC Two and everything went wrong. There was a massive power cut and they had a live kangaroo ready to be on air in the studio. He got stuck in a lift. It went, quote, berserk. Right. And then they had to just cut to another studio where there was a bloke just reading the news and he read the news and the sound wasn't turned on.

1:10:07And then he had to read it again. Disaster. And then you could see him just going to people in the studio and they were like... And then he basically just had to end the programme. Right. So this kangaroo was cursed from beginning to end. Yeah. But nonetheless, I think it was still the mascot when Attenborough was brought in, but he said, enough. Let's get rid of the kangaroo stuff now. Come on. It's a gimmick. Yeah. And that's not what he wanted. He didn't want that. He said, animals aren't mascots. They're stars. Animals are people too. Animals are people too. Right. So that's what I, that's me.

1:10:49That's good. Like that? I didn't know that. Yeah, a good example of a kind of good old BBC shambles. Yeah. Well, auntie's bloomers, isn't it? Auntie's bloomers, yeah. And bloopers. And bloopers. Well, I'm all fact-out. Oh, me too. Me too. What have we learned today? We learnt that kangaroos went berserk at the BBC. We learnt that Attenborough is a legend, even though we sort of already knew that. And that you are more likely to get killed by a coconut than a shark. We'll be back next week, armed with more facts, chats and coconut attacks. And don't forget that you can get in touch with us if you'd like us to fact check something that feels true to you or with whatever nonsense you'd like to tell us by emailing us at hello at joeandjamespod.com or you can WhatsApp us 07822034330 and you can follow us on social media at joeandjamespod.

1:11:42Head to the podcast description if you've already forgotten those details. See you next week, guys. Thanks for listening. Keep it real, guys. Yeah, keep it real. Bye. Bye. Bye.

1:11:56Joe and James Factor.

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