Behind JSHealth: Jessica Sepel on Bootstrapping, Vitamins & Protecting Women's Trust

0:00Today I'm joined by Jessica Sepel, clinical nutritionist, three-time best-selling author and founder of JS Health. What started as her own struggle with restrictive dieting and an unhealthy relationship with food has grown into a global wellness brand, with the JS Health product now sold every 20 seconds. So, let's find out why she's a lady who launched.

0:30A lightbulb moment launches your business, but consistent habits power it every day after. Today's episode is powered by Starling. Whether you're side hustling or scaling, Starling believes that with the right mindset and tools, anybody can be good with money. It's not about complex number wrangling or losing days to admin. It's creating a smart system of financial habits that can give you active control and build your confidence so that you can focus on being a founder, not the finance team. Search Starling Business to find out more about their monthly fee-free business account. I'm so pleased you're here and I'm so pleased that we are, first of all, finally meeting properly in the flesh.

1:08Finally. So happy and wanting to meet you. Which is crazy, isn't it? Because we've spoken online. Obviously, we've spoken lots because I have a relationship with the brand. I'm so grateful. We've worked together and it's so, so nice to sit down founder to founder and have a chat. I feel so grateful. Founder to founder, Aries to Aries. Aries to Aries, which is more of an interesting conversation. And I want to talk about before JS Health and before the kind of the products are being sold around the world and the business is the business now that we know and love. it all sort of centered around a young woman that was trying to fix her own relationship with food, as it were.

1:50And you've been really sort of open about struggling around sort of restrictive dieting and sort of the world of food. What was happening in your life at that time before JS Health was born? Yes, I think it probably goes back to my childhood where I was so fortunate because I grew up in a healthy household, which back then was pretty rare. Like I grew up with parents always grabbing things from the fridge and cooking up a wholesome meal from scratch um we never really had junk food in the house or white bread or sodas and it wasn't in a depri in like a deprivation sort of way it was just the way we lived like our family holidays were always active and hiking and cooking healthy life healthy life like I think I was so just lucky to have grown up like that my grandmother it's so funny now that we have this vitamin company because I always say vitamins are in my blood because my grandmother used to have trays and trays of vitamins at her breakfast table and they still do.

2:42My great grandmother used to travel to from Africa to Switzerland to get her vitamins. And I know breakfast was always papaya with lime juice squeezed onto it with our vitamins and just really lucky. But unfortunately, that got lost when I was 13. And I immigrated from South Africa to Australia. And my body started changing from puberty. And I discovered fad dieting as a way to control my body shape and size. And no one really talks to you about puberty time you know you've got your kids tricky like over 13 year olds at the minute and it's like of course you can literally see that transition of when they sort of become aware of their body and whether that's sort of living by comparison to friends or sort of noticing changes which we all can as females we can all remember that time and how strange it is relearning yourself again totally and you you like we didn't have social media then so imagine now You know, for me, it was fashion TV, the fashion magazines, the trashy, you know, celebrity magazines, unfortunately, that were promoting every single fad diet under the sun.

3:47And I literally think that's where I found the fad diets. That's, you know, at the age of 13, that's pretty young. I don't even know where I discovered the lemon detox diet and Atkins diet and the low carb. But I was young and I really latched onto these diets as a way to control my food intake because I thought being thinner would make me more lovable. I think I had moved into a new school with new friends. My body shape was changing from puberty. And you know with your kids, like when your hormones change, I guess no one ever said to me, you know, when you turn 13 or 14, you get your period, like your body will change and that's normal and it will recalibrate itself.

4:23I never had really known about it. The preparation for it. The preparation for it. I suppose, and also if I think about it from like a parent's lens, all of a sudden it just happens. True. And like for me, I feel like I recognize my baby and then all of a sudden you can see proddy parts happening and growing. It does just sort of one day you open your eyes and you're like, gosh, I've got a teenager now. And she really reflects that visually too. And do you feel like your teenagers? Yeah, like you probably are so good at educating them, but I just like got such a fright. I was like, what's happening?

4:56I think also now the luxury of the sort of ups and downs and the pros and cons of being online and, you know, us wellness is so celebrated now is that we're armed with way more information than perhaps our parents were. Exactly. In the way of knowing how to deal with those moments. Exactly. And I think it's just having that open conversation. My mom is a therapist. So she was always amazing to talk to from the emotional perspective. But I think physically I really just got such a fright. and you know you just grow up in a world again fashion tv era where you just feel like you need to be a certain shape and size to be accepted maybe because I'd also started a new school and it really was 10 years of just chronic fad dieting negative body image body dysmorphia the number on the scale would just determine my self-worth literally I would weigh myself every day and whatever that number was was like the determining factor of my self-worth and it's just so sad because now like Jay's Health existed way before Jay's Health Vitamins and I spent I guess eight to ten years just helping women have a much better relationship with food in their bodies I would actually tell women to throw out their scale stop counting calories and find balance and funny Jay's Health sort of took off because everyone at that time was really living in the extremes yes and suddenly there was this like you know cute Australian young brand saying not young brands right this was it was a wholesome brand saying actually balance is the only way and you can have a kind relationship with yourself and food in order to feel and look your best like to feel well and so it was back what before yeah I guess it was when the extremes were happening when I sort of was saying there has to be a better way there has to be a better way that women treat their bodies more considered approach like a sustainable obviously you you were sort of living through this situation at the time in your teens where you were just you know I suppose wanting to control as well I think that's something that is a it's quite noticeable with young women of that age where it's like everything's changing around you particularly if you've moved country and you've moved to a new school and it's like the thing that you then maybe can control yes you then take sort of your learnings of like I suppose mistreating your own body to wanting to really empower other women and to empower other people to have a healthier relationship with food and you become a nutritionist yes so tell us talk walk me through this period of your life yes thank you I I think it was also interesting because from the age of 14 I want I knew I wanted to be a nutritionist I went to a health retreat with my the healthy grandmother and we went to a talk by a nutritionist and I literally turned to my grandmother I'll never forget and I was like I want to be like her like I literally knew so part of it must have been an unhealthy obsession at that time I was fad dieting and like I wanted to learn about food because it was an unhealthy obsession but the other half of it was it was my blood it was like how it was brought up this healthy life eating well my grand that same grandmother used to like go on these fruit and vegetable um retreats and yeah same as my mom it was just half of it was obsessional and half of it was like it's just in me yes I knew I wanted to be a nutritionist so when I literally straight after school I went off and studied five years I went off and studied for five years I did a Bachelor of Health for three years and then two years of nutritional medicine and it's then that everything started to change because when you're studying nutrition and you're literally studying how important nutrients and minerals are for your body to thrive and function and then realizing as a fad diet I had literally cut out so many of those important food groups that contain those nutrients and minerals I a started panicking and b started changing literally during my studies was when I started documenting my change it was just meant to be a personal blog my sister was studying fashion at the time and she had a fashion blog and she's like just like jot your thoughts down into a blog was blog spot do you remember blog yes of course I do of course you were definitely in the blogging era.

8:58So yeah, I started jotting down this transition. I was studying nutrition. It's interesting. I used to have like mini panic attacks and say to my lecturer, am I going to be okay? I've spent the last 10 years not eating fats, not eating proteins. And then you learn, amino acids are the repair in the body. They are the most important thing for a repair of ourselves and fats, how important they are for the brain and your hormones and your cycle and your skin and your hair and realizing, you know, I think I wasn't probably feeling my best too. I was, my cycle was off. I was, my mood was up and down.

9:33My energy was low. I wasn't sleeping so well. I was so motivated to really go back to the healthy life. And I thought, and I started feeling better. Like my hair got stronger and thicker. My, my, my skin started to clear. And, um, I just remember starting to feel so well when I started adding these macronutrients back into my diet that I had cut out for over a decade. And studying for five years just gives you so, studying health and nutrition for five years just gives you so much love and respect for nutrients and minerals. Like I seriously, when I talk about nutrients and minerals and in the early days, it was just Jay's health was just through food and now recipes and the three bestselling health books.

10:13I would come to London actually with Joe Wicks and Sarah Wilson from I Quit Sugar and we would just, you know, talk about whole foods. And when I, it's the same thing with supplements. When I talk about nutrients and minerals, it really lights me up. It gives me chills because it's just unbelievable the change that they can make in the human body. And I was so then fortunate to go into private practice as a nutritionist for so many years because sitting like this face-to-face with females and hearing from them what they were struggling with, gut health, hormone imbalances, hair loss, a negative relationship with their body and food, food, skin breakouts, and then watching the way nutrients and minerals through food and then through supplementation would completely transform their lives.

10:56Not just their health and energy, their lives. Because the, you know, the ripple effect, when you start feeling well, everything gets better. Your relationships, your happiness, your mental health and peace. Your mindset. Everything. And it was so, it was like, again, it gives me chills when I think back to my days in private practice, because my team know, they were the best days of my career. I have to tell you like the goal for me very and yeah and also very lucky to have had those years because that was the foundation of JS Health and still is my relationship with my customers is what like literally lights me up I know you you're the same I think I just do have a passion to help women feel better whether it's through our philosophy through the books whether it's through our recipes whether it's through the supplement range like it's all the same mission like just want to help women feel better if I was talking to the press this morning and I know they're having two or three cups of coffee in the day.

11:48It's just part of sort of the culture. And, you know, a lot of them are struggling with low energy and sleep and I'll help them just swap that third cup of coffee to something else. And then we're going to the one or two cups of coffee a day. And I just know what's going to happen to their energy and sleep, the impact of that one small change or adding magnesium to a woman's life and just the way that that will transform their nervous system and their energy the next morning and the ripple effect of good sleep into the next day, like just lights me up. So I was so fortunate to be that nutritionist in private practice where women would just tell me what they were struggling with.

12:22Yes. And you know that you can make direct impact and how rewarding that is and how much value you can add to their lives. So you're in private practice. You've got the blog happening. Yeah. Same time. Same time. So tell us where the kind of light bulb moment to really sort of put your practice into products like how what how was JS Health as we know it then born yeah as you know JS Health vitamins yeah it's so funny because there was this whole other chapter that I a lot of people don't know about tell us well just just you know just that JS Health was this beautiful platform of just customers and I was in private practice and then I had this this whole community of women right who were telling me what they were struggling with and I was in private practice seeing it face to face so it was just so much beautiful feedback from people like a focus group I was literally and the thing is at the time you have to remember 10 years ago think about the vitamin space it was very um non-innovative like it was pretty basic vitamin c vitamin d calcium turmeric you kind of knew calcium was good for your bones you knew vitamin c for your immune system but you didn't really know how a vitamin could or vitamin formulation could transform your innovation in that you remember like but think about think about back to the boots or any pharmacy back then I just think of almost like the hair and nails tablets or the yeah that was a little bit cod liver oil yeah it's like a very sort of traditional exactly traditional and I was like what I have to be honest I was like kind of disappointed in a lot of the formulations that I was prescribing because in private practice you literally sign up to a whole bunch of supplement companies and some of the brands were good enough.

14:05But as a nutritionist coming out of nutrition school, it's kind of like, why aren't they using magnesium glycinate? Now, by the way, magnesium glycinate is trending. But you know these things when you're studying nutrition, you learn that 1.5 grams of fish oil is the dose you need to truly see difference in your skin and your hair and heart health and brain health. You know that you need to utilize 400 milligrams of elemental magnesium to see a true difference in someone's nervous system or sleep. You know that three grams of phenyl has been proven to reduce abdominal bloating and distension. So you know what should be in formulations.

14:39So why isn't it? And it wasn't. There were some formulations that were okay, but I was like, also everyone's coming and so bloated. There was not one formulation on the market for deep bloating. There wasn't a formulation on the market that said hormone and PMS, one of my favorite formulations. Not many people know about it, but specifically for the cycle and reduction of PMS symptoms. And then I just felt this need to create a line of supplements for women. And by the way, it was just meant to be for my clients in private practice and my community online. I knew I had an online community that I could also sell to.

15:12And I just wanted to create this line. It was going to be five SKUs that were for women's main pain points. Stress and sleep, hair, skin, gut health, bloating like it was gonna be five SKUs that's it and local I have a local pharmacy where I live in Sydney you have to come visit and everyone it's like kind of just the best pharmacy and you just want your products in that pharmacy kind of like French pharmacies you know in Australia pharmacies are a really big thing and I thought if I can just get my products in there that's I've won yeah yeah so I knew though I started getting very very familiar with which ingredients made a true difference to my clients lives again I was in private practice and had this online focus group I knew when it came to hair growth kelp I knew when it came to clearing skin you need to work on the gut microbiome and the skin repairing the skin with antioxidants at the same time I knew when it came to sleep we needed to use high doses of magnesium and potentially some herbs I knew exactly I'd seen which ingredients work but also which ingredients didn't work got it I saw the ingredients that had side effects I saw ingredients forms of ingredients like potentially magnesium oxide that was in most of the formulations but just didn't really make a difference right but then when I would utilize really good forms of magnesium glycinate citrate chelate really saw a difference and then when I do I will never forget one of my patients struggling with like mood and just I would say mental health and then prescribing her really high dose fish oil with a whole plan in place you know she had therapy support and nutritional support and just the way that that high strength fish oil completely changed her life.

16:48And you just also learn, go deeper with nutrition. Like where's the fish oil coming from? Is it sustainably sourced? Is it heavy metal tested? Is it 1.5 grams? And then I also knew my patients were avoiding taking fish oil because of the fishy aftertaste and fishy reflux. So I was like, we have to coat our fish oil in vanilla. We were one of the first brands to do that. So I, you see, I was getting feedback all the time. Jess, I'm taking magnesium glycinate. I'm sleeping so much better. Oh my gosh, Jess, since you put me on the gut formulation and the antioxidants, my skin is clearing when I'm doing both at the same time.

17:18So I knew exactly how to create a formulation to tackle a pain point. And you're almost like formulating before you were supposed to be formulated, if that makes sense, because you're literally sort of prescribing these supplements to people, but you're actually really coming up with your own formula at the same time exactly and the hair one was so interesting that was honestly was a bit of an accident because I was seeing clients and they were low in minerals selenium zinc iodine and I was prescribing kelp kelp is my favorite way to get the minerals in and I know when I always felt that when it came to hair loss minerals minerals minerals and I was prescribing this kelp and my client's hair started growing like wildfire no and so did mine I was taking this kelp.

18:00I gave it to my cousin. I'll never get giving it to one of my first cousins and my sisters. And all of our hair started growing like wildfire. And it was the special kelp that I was using. And I stumbled across it. And what was crazy is that firstly, no one was using this kelp for hair growth. But then we looked into the science and we saw that kelp, iodine from kelp has been proven to support hair growth and strength and thickness. Combined it with zinc, which is my other favorite mineral to support hair growth and hair health. Simple formulation two extracts of kelp which we're the only brand who can use this very special pure kelp in the world from nova scotia it's probably it's probably it is i believe the purest kelp in the world and now we're number one hair supplement in australian pharmacy for the fourth year and it's honestly just because it works it just works and i tried everything with my clients again i was so lucky biotin silica collagen for hair and none of it really worked so how lucky was i to have seen for years and years trying so like a trying fight and trying everything they would come see me like no that didn't really work so you're literally sort of like trial and error all that for years before the product so by the time it comes to formulating i knew exactly you know exactly how i would say look and so fast forward to the sort of moment that you think okay this is beyond what I'm doing here and this is almost beyond you know my my clients and the community that I've built online this sort of needs to reach far and wide because what I'm doing here this idea that I have I know that it's gonna it's gonna cut through and it's there's nothing like it I suppose as you said that supplement aisle in those kind of drug stores that in that setting super unsexy super unsophisticated super traditional at what point do you think I'm going to press go and this is a brand bigger than where we are now yeah I think it was probably never an intention to be a big brand right um because I had I actually was working with a doctor at the time one of my pracs like my internships was with a really well-known integrative doctor in Sydney and I'll literally never forget his words it's like whatever you do do not enter the supplement space it is the most competitive hard complicated regular regulated yes like industry in the world he literally said and he's one of like he's not someone i really look up to he's like do not even try and also they're the big giants that you're competing against with price and a lot of them will use much cheaper raw materials not all of them but some of them and i was like how am i going to compete because i know i'm going to use the best raw materials.

20:42I know I'm going to want to use magnesium glycinate and the fish oil that I know is the best fish oil raw material that is so expensive. I know I'm going to want to use marine collagen at three grams because that's where the science is. I knew I wanted to use these really premium ingredients. And he said, you'll have no chance competing with the big giants in the industry. And I think because I never wanted to compete with them, I didn't really mind. I thought, I thought this is just for my clients. This is just for my online community. I went to my manufacturer who's still one of our manufacturers today and I said you have to do me a favor I don't know if this is going to work but can you just run a 2000 bottle run for me because also financially it's a huge investment my husband at the time you know we had just like we didn't want to overly invest we had just gotten married I think or like two years prior so um I was like will you do me and he would never normally do a 2000 bottle run but he did that favor for me and that was hair hair and energy with the miracle kelp and what happened was at the time I had an online presence a social media presence from JS Health it's where I had spent eight to ten years helping women have a better relationship with food in their bodies it was the recipes and how big is that online presence it was quite big at the time I think maybe a hundred or two hundred thousand followers on Instagram so I knew okay I probably have an audience there to sell the vitamins through two 2000s yeah yeah the 2000s yeah if you're doing your math you're like okay I'm confident I think I was like you know and then we knew the financial risk if I you know that we we were feeling fine with that investment um but I think you know this like when you're when you there's something that happens when you're on the verge of creating a brand or a product that you sort of feel it like I have chills saying it now like you feel it in your body I know you have that with your brand because you wouldn't have you wouldn't have dived in unless you had that feeling it's a burning desire where you think if I can create this line of supplements for women I just know how it's going to help them I had seen remember I'd had years and years of seeing this miracle kelp what it did for my clients seeing how magnesium glycinate citrate and chelate together 400 milligrams would transform my client's life so it was like this it was like it was like this monster coming out of my body I was like yeah it doesn't exist on the market arrange for women's pain points I felt this like I even was a little bit frustrated that I could only do hair and energy at the time because that's all we would want to invest in.

23:03I was like, I know the next skin and digestion was waiting. Detox and debloat was waiting. Triple four magnesium was waiting. I was ready to go. And then anxiety and stress was the next one. The stress was such a big thing for women I was seeing. And so, yeah. So then what happened was people started sharing, and this is honestly what happened, their before and afters organically. This was before influencers. They started just before influencers. They started sharing their before and afters from their hair growths. I have this folder. I can show it to you later. I have the folder of the original followers who would just share their before and afters from Hair and Energy.

23:41And even all of us were like mind blown. Like, look what this kelp is doing. And then we started resharing. It was just back in those social media days. Just resharing. Had a little J's Health vitamins account resharing the hair before and afters and literally sold out of that run two thousand bottles done gone in how long no sure i honestly i have to ask my husband to remember like short period wow yeah and then we're like right let's go next one and next one and every well honestly all the money from each drop drop would feed the next right and the next and the next and next um and it was just like I guess you I think the ambition wasn't to be a big company so the ambition was this is enough like I'm so happy just to be supporting my online community and my you know my clients who I'd known for so many years like I just wasn't trying to be bigger than anything now we're so we've the last couple years we've been so ambitious but it was kind of nice back then because there was ambition to create good quality products but not to be a big company yeah you didn't sort of put pressure on yourselves to hit certain milestones because exactly the milestones were let's see if we can finish this run and hope that people yeah you're reminding me of the good old days yeah just just less pressure no kpis yeah i mean now i have a team and i really take it seriously like a team of 60 65 incredible women and i really feel responsibility to make this company work for so many people and for my customers and for my team.

25:22But back then it really was low pressure. We had a really small team from the JS Health brand because we were creating recipes still. And we had the books. We had like sort of a small brand team and they were jumping onto the vitamins and helping us. Like we were doing shoots in the garden, you know, back just very organic. Just back to basics. Back to basics. There really were the good old days. Not that we have some really, we still really are able to enjoy the journey now. But you know what happens. Like the mountain just gets steeper. And it's OK because us Aries girls can handle it. But you've got to get gritty.

25:55But there's something to be said about those early days where you don't really know what's in front of you. And it's kind of the real enjoyment in the journey, not just the kind of end result. We talk a lot on this show about the unfiltered reality of founder life, the late nights, wrong turns, obviously the shiny winds too. But we talk less about the unsexier day-to-day stuff that actually keeps the wheels turning. In other words, the endless financial admin that can end up disrupting the craft and the creativity that led you to actually launch in the first place. So today's episode is powered by Starling who believe that the right mindset and tools can change all that.

26:34They've built a powerful business account that can help you build confidence boosting habits, create vital headspace and shed the dead weight so you can focus on your next move, all with no monthly fees. We love that. There are some features founders are really loving like spaces where you can separate all your different expenses from your main account. There's also Bills Manager, which keeps bills like tax or office rent in a protected space and pays them automatically on the same day. So that's one thing ticked off of the to-do list. Starling Accounting is a bit of a game changer too. It handles bookkeeping and making tax digital all from your bank.

27:11Just search Starling Business to find out more. At what point did you realise that this had greater legs than perhaps those early days? did it become quite apparent to you because the scale of you know JS Health now is it's you know it's a global brand this is outside of the people that you were serving outside of you know that initial audience it's really it's really really grown somehow at what point did you realize that that's the way it was looking I know I think it's interesting when you asked me that because even though I know um how big the company is now I it's so funny because I think there's something as a founder where you never quite feel like it yes you know what I mean like it's a bit of an annoying answer it's like well it makes you comfortable and then you feel like you've never next you know the next you know what's happening next you know you know um that you've got to you're going to reach the next KPI and the next KPI and the next KPI I think not that we've actually we've always sort of run like a small business and we've never really had much investment so we never had too much pressure but it's you realize I think because the products have been able to help so many people the ambition comes from that it's like I want the U.S.

28:29population to have access to high quality supplements for women it's just this like you're like oh my gosh I see what we're on I want even this morning you know when I was at Hearst with the press I'm like I just desperately want them to have our formulations on their bedside table yeah or in their kitchen counter like the nutritionist in me it's just sort of this feeling of I want people to have access for me it's that I mean I'm it's back to the beginning isn't it that's exactly what you did and that was kind of your buzz was like yeah changing women's lives and if yeah if you can do that for people that you were seeing face to face but you now can do that beyond yeah i think i don't think that buzz will ever go i think not i think and it keeps us like healthy and i just think yeah that but i think when you asked me like was there a point i'm like i just i really can't think of a point where it's like i know we are like a big company now because every day you're also just building you know you're in the grind yes you're not like sitting back and be like well i should read this because it says uh today as it stands a Jess health product is sold every 20 seconds.

29:34Well, that's good. I mean, there's a lot of great before and afters there now, isn't there? A lot. That folder has grown. It has. It's my favorite folder. I've got many of those folders. As the company does grow, and I think one thing that is really sort of visible is that the company has always been built on trust. And particularly in that wellness space, it is what it is, right? Like we like a product if we can see results, if it's working. And I think what you've done really well is actually shake up that space that it's got a real brand identity too. And it feels like a treat in a luxurious product for a woman at the same time.

30:14Thank you. How important for you and how do you protect that trust as the business grows? It's such a good question because we were, again, talking about that this morning. it's so important to me because I'm a nutritionist I really really the thing that could like the thing that allows me to sleep at night is knowing the quality of our formulations you know I just it's just the most important part of my job and I think I've been very lucky I've been able to like solely focus on product and customers because I have my husband and the finance team and the business team doing the business side and I've been so fortunate all the way through that that has been the case because I've always been able to focus purely on product on your strength I'm very lucky yeah I really think it would be interesting if I had to put my brain there I'm not sure it would have gotten murky I've been able to really be in a place where I refuse to compromise where my CFO will say to me sometimes can we explore a different fish oil raw material can we look at a different marine collagen do you mind um if we yeah like literally those are the two conversations I've had recently and it's just this this I am the only one that can sit here and tell you and say to the team no like I have to be the one at all times that will be that will not compromise when it comes to my formulations they have actually we I was saying this the other I think we've ever ever changed a formulation hardly ever wow because we've never had to because they work and jsl vitamins has this big online presence but the truth of the matter is i don't think it would have gotten to this point unless the formulations really delivered you know though like people these days they're not investing in products unless they really truly see a difference in whatever it is whatever product it is you're just not coming back try it they might have a go but whether they're going to repeat that purchase that are they going to be like desperate when the when the you know when the pots run out are they gonna be quick I need to order it because I'm low you know that's where that's where this sort of game changes exactly and I don't know if you're the same but the only time I enter into the business side of the business is when I when I talk about retention the most important thing for me everyone knows and I do Aries drive them crazy is about retention because I refuse like the most important thing for me is customers returning.

32:40They're coming back. They need to come back time and time again for our magnesium. And then when we launch a longevity formulation or a collagen formulation or a sleep powder, they feel they can't help themselves because they know they feel they they just trust that that sleep powder is going to deliver results. So it's keep the trust comes from a really good formulation whether it's skincare or vitamins or body washes like you know I think trust is the most important factor when it comes to the quality of the product and you obviously cannot compromise you don't compromise that and I think that's exactly it so the moment that you release something brand new to that space we're all invested because we know how great our experiences were everything else I think that is so so important I want to talk about like if we sort of go back to the beginning because a lot of time we talk about raising and you know at those early stages cash flow can be quite difficult for lots of startups at the beginning um as well it's been bootstrapped from the beginning yeah why was that so important to you um it's probably more important to my husband that's just the way he operates he's never wanted to have the pressure of investors sort of like guiding the company out of our hands.

34:02I think it's been a blessing because we've had to get really, what's the word? Really. Yeah. We've just run always like a small business. We just have had to be very intentional with every single thing we do in the vitamin space. Scrappy. That was the word scrappy, really, really scrappy and everything. It's, it's been amazing, but it's also made it harder because we don't have, you know, the luxury for insane marketing brand budgets potentially that our competitors have. So it's interesting. And I think I understand why there's a time and a place when investors do need to come in and support the brand to go from strength to strength.

34:43And also, I think there's just this beautiful, as you said, I think this trust, small business element that I guess we've been able to control everything. We've been able to control our manufacturing. We've been able to control my decision making like as you said I'm a practitioner and that was something else I was going to say is not just with Jay's Health Vitamins like I want people to look for brands that do have practitioners behind them a nutritionist a naturopath a doctor because in in my product role every day I'm making decisions from the nutritionist in me not from the businesswoman in me and if I'm being honest if I was just a businesswoman I don't know if I'd be making always the best decisions because the truth is that I wouldn't be choosing these really premium ingredients I would you know so such a valid point the nutritionist in me is so important pushes the budgets because you're like we need this fish oil but if it was just about business you'd perhaps I think so go for something similar yeah but not as performative yeah yeah yeah and it makes perfect yeah so just every eye I like or try and look for a brand that at least has a team of practitioners behind the product development because we really are not willing to compromise as practitioners because practitioners want to see a change and a transformation in their clients health and their health is our number one passion like just who we are if you're studying health for so many years and you're in this industry you just care about people's health yeah you can't switch that off but investors I think I have been grateful that we've been able to run like a small business and as you as we were talking about earlier like most of my girls have been with us since the beginning eight nine years Zoe has been with me we're in our ninth year together just when it started and it's you've got to like learn to love the journey like you know because you really do have good moments and really challenging ones and then you just learn okay there's a point in time it probably for me was maybe three or four years maybe three years ago where I was like I'm gonna just lean in because this is the journey of business I think people have this very glamorous this very glamorous unrealistic view of what it takes and I look at you and I just know what what what you've had to do to get into the seat today like I just have I like you know I just I look at you and I just like I can I don't I just know what you've had to do and sacrifice to be in this today because I think it gets glamorized isn't it a lot I think people think it's like you know all swanky offices you know power suiting and and that is what we always say on this podcast that the most unsexy row is is is the role of a ceo particularly in those like those early years because you are everything you are like everything the cleaner oh my gosh you're every part of the business and i think it's it's only as it grows that your role will somewhat change or you know you can actually hone in on on what you're good at what do you think What kind of founder do you think you are now that perhaps you wasn't, say, five years ago?

37:41Yeah, I'm definitely a kind leader, sometimes too kind. But I've learned boundaries and I've had to learn to protect what I've built. So I've had to learn that sometimes you have to make decisions that are best for the business. and that sometimes means and so what's best for the business is to have um really strong leadership in place yes because that's what's best for the business you know like everyone knows I would be giving my vitamins out for free today that's the truth because you want everyone I literally go into the supermarkets I'm not joking in LA and I have always a big bag of vitamins on me and I just like here's magnesium just try I like that is probably like my natural way and my team who've be with me forever like no like Jess you're too kind like I've had to learn to be stronger and more firm and more protective of what I've built because you know both of us sitting in the seat today we know what we've sacrificed and you know what this company the potential of your company is and you know the responsibility of having a company you have salaries to pay you have customers you have to show up for so being firm and having boundaries is what it is what business requires what would you say is your clearest boundary in business like what's one thing that's like a non-negotiable for you that's a really good question or like and whether that sort of is for you as a founder because sometimes we don't talk enough about about us in that position so is it like a boundary that you have to I don't know for me it's that I don't I really try and protect my weekends for instance and that's a clear boundary for me yeah like what's what's one for for for Jess yeah for almost the business but for you to be able to stay sane no so mine is actually my night so it's my nighttime switch off so I work until about seven six thirty seven most nights in LA and then it's from everyone sort of knows I actually have it in my diary says Jess 7 30 p.m switch off time you'll see it in my diary like it's sort of when so what happens I have this very wholesome nighttime routine and I've been committed to it for so many years now.

39:49Oh my gosh. And it changes my, it's changed my life because of my boundaries. Cause I don't know if I believe in imbalance, but as founders it's boundaries. So what I do is I work till seven and then from seven 30, sort of the team, everyone and myself knows it's switch off time because the ripple effect of what I'm about to tell you is just exceptional in terms of my health, my physical health, my mental health, my mental peace, my, like my life, My life is better because of this one nighttime routine. So I actually delete my social media apps at 7.30 p.m. Brilliant. I delete them. So everyone's going to, you can think it's extreme, but unfortunately, human beings are human beings.

40:27Tell us. And you know what? If we don't actually do this, it's just not going to happen. So I delete my social media apps and I also turn off my email app and I don't even have Slack on my phone. So basically the whole online world shuts down, but I'm really strict about it. it's like there's maybe like a couple nights a year that this won't happen 8 p.m is my switch off time so by 8 p.m my phone and my computer and everything sort of has to be away right if I know I need to speak to a family member like I'll I'll like look at it and then I know though from 8 p.m unless there's something urgent that's it it's switched off time so I don't even have the apps on my phone to scroll if there's a temptation to go on Instagram there's no temptation because it's And you know, I just want to say to everyone, the next day when you re-download Instagram or whatever it is, you know, it saves your password.

41:16So it literally takes 10 seconds. You re-download the app and then there it appears. Yeah, it's not this big deal. It's not this big deal. Okay. Then I make a protein rich dinner. I just want to say protein rich because a lot of people are accidentally skipping amino acids. Amino acids have tryptophan in them, which helps to make melatonin. So making sure to have a really blood sugar stabilizing dinner. I really want everyone to have protein and good fats and fiber at the dinner time. Starchy veg is a really good one. and then I have my magnesium so any good quality magnesium but you really want to look for triple form if possible I we use glycinate to tracheolate and you really want it to be an efficacious dose so around 400 milligrams is where you really feel an effect in your nervous system so why magnesium is so popular is not so much it's the science behind magnesium in sleep it's the way it calms down the nervous system and the mind like literally it literally is a nervous system down regulator so I literally sip on our magnesium powder or take our tablets and I or sometimes our sleep powder depending and I literally can see and feel my nervous system start to slow down but at this time there's also not nothing you know like jacking my nervous system back up because I'm not on my phone I'm not checking emails I'm not checking social media and this is like my slow down time so sipping on my magnesium I have a hot Epsom salt bath with lavender I see my nights as like and I know there's lots of moms out there with kids so it's when the kids have gone to sleep you can set the routine from the time that works for you so for me it's 8 p.m but for some moms it might be 9 p.m so just find a time that works that time for you and then it's magnesium or sleep powder it's epsom salts my favorite tv show or book and it is slow down time it's like time with my husband it's away from the world and what so what what is the ripple effect of this I can fall asleep because my mind these days I meet women we need like two hours to calm down cortisol and slow down the mind slow down the mind you know cortisol is meant to slow down as from around 2 p.m 3 p.m 4 p.m it's meant to come down in the afternoon so melatonin can take over when the sun goes down that very natural circadian rhythm is just not happening right people are amping up at night their cortisol is coming up and melatonin is really struggling I'm not the biggest fan of melatonin supplementation I want our own pineal gland okay to produce melatonin so but it's all about for women in particular we have to find ways to calm down our nervous system for our minds because people aren't falling asleep because they have busy minds so think of your nighttime routine as it's time to slow down the mind and the body and so what happens I can fall asleep I can stay asleep a lot of women are waking up at two to three a.m.

43:56I'm a bit like that at the minute yeah 3am I don't love it we don't love this but we'll fix that and then what happens we wake up more energized because our adrenal glands have been restored we know what sleep does to our brains it's literally sleep is our way for our brains to refresh what happens when you have that refreshing sleep you literally wake up more clear you have more mental health and peace and my morning routine is similar because I just believe how you start your day sets the tone so if I'm starting my day again checking social remember i've deleted the social media app the night before so i i bet it's a weird thing though to sort of in the morning being like do i really want this you know i think that it is part of me that's like exactly actually i'm not sure if i want this so what you'll find is you don't until you're at your desk so what i do is right i'm like my how i start my morning and it's a very quick morning routine because we're founders like the truth of the matter is we've got to get the day going yeah so it's like a 45 minute i wake up my husband i walk most mornings we have a coffee i haven't checked social media on my emails by this time because I don't want to start my day on a chaotic, overwhelming note.

44:56It's fair. Right? And then have a morning routine. I either exercise, walk with my husband, have a coffee, have the JSL vitamins, the JSL breakfast. Okay. At my desk, 9, 9.30, that is when I'm going to let in the world. I'm going to jump onto social media, jump into my emails, allow the inundation from the world to come. I have the whole day, everyone, just for that little social media. You've gone until 7. A long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true. Let the world almost like have its way with you. Like because you're always needed, aren't you? Come at us. Whether you're a parent, whether you're a founder, whether, you know, it's those moments for me in the morning.

45:36I always try and get up before my kids because I'm like, I just like not being needed by anyone. 100%. Like just whether I'm just there just chilling or if I, you know, I've got time for a workout. you know i just really like that time where i know nobody needs me just yet because like you say come nine o 'clock well before then because i've got my kids but once then the office has started and we're all up working yeah it's sort of all day isn't it all day on but that is such a nice idea and just the morning routine again like the mental piece the day so sometimes you know i'm like if i break it here and there because we have a launch happening or there's an urgent whatever website thing.

46:12It's so interesting what happens when that habit or that boundary is broken. The day starts on this chaotic, overwhelming note. And it's just so interesting what happens the rest of the day. It's just a bit more, the energy is just more chaotic. And I just think, women, I'm so passionate about our nervous systems because our nervous systems, I think it's almost our everything. If we can regulate our nervous system where adrenaline and cortisol comes out of, I think everything gets better our energy our mental clarity our mental peace our decision making our food choices like when we can regulate our cortisol levels and really learn how to calm down the nervous system sleep gets better you wake up more energized you have probably better relationships yeah just everything and you're right and having like those moments at the beginning and end of day for yourself that you actually when everything comes at you because listen it comes with the territory right of founding a business and you know having sort of a high pressure job yeah but you must feel a lot more in control of that energy I think so you know like when it's chaotic and your evening's been chaotic and so is your morning it's kind of yeah it feels like a bit of a pylon whereas if you're you've sort of taken a bit of control back for yourself yeah there's something really rewarding and I feel like you know this like I think that's the other thing is that people having access to you I think there is when you're running such a big team like both of us we do need to we are givers we naturally have to be as founders though also we don't really have boundaries we want to give our business out everything all the time like the truth of the matter is I could be that person that's up all night working because I love it I want to I want to attend to the next product and give it everything I you know our personalities want to keep giving and giving and giving like it's easy for me to keep going and keep giving but at what cost yes and is it worth the cost of us burning out and being grumpy founders that we know is not going to serve our teams like I think these boundaries probably keep me a real as a really healthy leader so right and coming back to what you who you want to be as a founder and how you want to feel exactly in those moments I mean it's that it's so so important it comes really full circle for you you know yeah well this is at the heart of what you do so you kind of have to reflect that right in your but I will say one quick thing because you and I both know in the beginning maybe we can't have a strong boundary it's like when you're building a business in those early days I'm going to admit it takes over your life and you have to be startup isn't it and it's kind of you're being resourceful you're being everything to everybody and I suppose with success and with time I think it becomes easier to be clear on those boundaries but that's kind of that's the that's how you sort of redefine what success looks like right you know it's that moment where you're like no success is now to me is that I can delete my apps at seven like that's a great moment and you know this like you know you realize your mental your your mental peace becomes really important because you know you've had success you've reached the milestones and then And at the end of the day, you just know what really feeds your soul, which is your family, your husband, sitting around a table, having dinner, laughing before bed, having a good sleep.

49:36It's like there comes a point for every founder where I think you really, hopefully, I've had this, where you understand what brings true peace and joy. And then I think it becomes a necessity as a founder to find that peace. Yes. Yeah. you're saying i mean it's kind of the thing that we're all looking for isn't it before i move on to our rocket round i want to ask you what excites you the most about the future of women's health that when you when when you sort of think about what you do and what you've seen in the progression you've seen in that category in that space and you know the access that women now have to knowledge to supplements to sort of knowing what is good for us and you know what's going to help what what excites you the most about the future yeah I just think I'm always going to be excited by women's health what is exciting me is actually the scientific world at the moment is really really supporting us as supplement brands like we have all the best scientists in the world jumping onto all the best podcasts in the US.

50:45You know, I'm sure your podcast, you've had Diary of a CEO, Mel Roberts, all these incredible, you know, scientists and professors are coming on and actually talking to the science behind these supplements that everyone's been so skeptical about. Vitamin D, magnesium, creatine, fish oil, probiotics. I mean, the science is undeniable at this point in time, undeniable. And I think I'm so grateful because, you know, we've had so much, like skepticism skepticism skepticism we've had so much we've had a lot of skeptics as in as an industry um i as a nutritionist you know having done this for so many years now have always believed in the power of nutrients and minerals but i'm so grateful that the scientific world is really highlighting these incredible ingredients i mean studies like magnesium those who had high levels of magnesium in their bloodstream had lower all-cause mortality by i think 40 percent that's just exceptional the science the science behind fish oil the science behind vitamin d as i said like so i think i'm i think i'm so excited that finally the science world is really heroing these incredible nutrients and minerals that can make such a difference in our bodies especially we're living in a world where it can be more difficult to get these nutrients and minerals in i'm also i am excited by the longevity space in a non-extreme way right like nad has been trending but it's a large molecule and it can't get into the cells very easily.

52:08So I've been doing a lot of research on NMN, which is one of the best precursors to NAD. Professor David Sinclair has really been heroing this from Harvard. NMN is like, I'm just going to, I think it's the longevity ingredient. So that for me, I'm very fascinated by the science behind NMN. Longevity is interesting to an extent i mean to me magnesium creatine fish oil and nmn are like long they are longevity ingredients we know the way creatine supports lean body mass and muscle strength that is a predictor of healthy aging i just mentioned the magnesium study fish oil for me is the longevity nutrient the way it protects us the way it protects our hearts and our cells is just unbelievable so i love the longevity space but in a non-extreme way yeah because we obviously we consume so much information about that and there is a lot of extreme but that's that's so and metabolic health I think obviously with the rise of GLP-1s for so many people I meet it's just often not a sustainable um route I have no judgment towards it I think it's just is it a sustainable thing for a lot of people and often it's not and it also comes at the cost of low nutrient mineral intake because they're just not getting in enough of the nutrients and minerals through their diet.

53:27So I'm interested in other ways to support metabolic function in a healthy, sustainable way. So berberine is the metabolic ingredient, has been for years. It's trending now, but I've loved and used it my whole career. It needs to be the right forms of berberine though, bioavailable forms. And creatine, we just created a creatine with a natural GLP-1 extract. So that's allowing your body to, it's an extract that has been proven to increase GLP-1 levels by 22 % within your body so finding ways to support metabolic function in a holistic wholesome yes sustainable way I mean for me like berberine if people are looking to reduce their appetite or cravings or support body composition change it's berberine and people see incredible results using berberine so I'm not gonna I really am such a fan of some of those ingredients I honestly feel like i wish this was a notepad and i was writing everything i'm so lucky that we recorded this so i'm gonna take full full notes um i want to do a rocket round now and these are well they're supposed to be quick fire they never are i always say it but when you two women talk it's never quick is it no um but just the first sort of answer that comes into your head the first question is what do you think are the non-negotiables for running a business you have to be willing to be very gritty it's going to challenge you it's going to sometimes honestly bring you down to your knees like you know like you're gonna have some really tough days out there but stay strong and dig deep for that resilience and the grit because often it's like on the other side of that where everything gets better and stronger like it's some you know what I actually think you actually need to have those moments you need to have those rock bottom hard moments because something happens in there where it's like are you going to stay strong are you going to stay strong when you do everything gets better on the other side business wise and personally like somehow everything strengthens every time that's happened the business has gotten stronger on the other side yeah that's that's such a good point just don't be afraid of them like actually embrace them embrace those moments it's going to be you're going to have good days and hard days it's just and it's part of that is what business is having that mentality like when you know this is this is how it's going to be I think makes it all much better and then of course hanging on to your why because you're going to need to know why you're doing this every day.

55:53Well in those days when you are on your knees the why is the thing that's going to get you back up right it's so true without it I don't know we won't we wouldn't be here we would just stay on the floor. Exactly that um when did you first realize that you truly launched um I think those days when people were just starting to share their before and afters I was like whoa like I didn't ask them to do that this is connecting yeah people are yeah it's working it's working yeah that's a that's a kind of goose goose bumping moment um I was going to ask you what the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed but I now know you know I've got the routine I missed one little point I actually it's a bit spiritual of an answer I actually started praying and it sounds um very um religious what I'm saying but actually it's it's the most intense form of gratitude where I actually pray for other people and I pray for myself and my husband so like I'm just like in this state where every morning and my husband I do it together where we just like are so thankful for everything we have and we actually pray for others and we do the same thing at night yes I love that that gratitude it's always they say that you always receive more in abundance when you in that state what you already have right yeah um one piece of advice that you wish that you hadn't listened to um I think my husband and I are very good at probably not listening to other people's advice because I think both of our parents have always had their own businesses and also work together right and that's interesting yeah it's interesting I think because we we like to be inspired by this of course but I think I think we've been good at not looking too much to your to our left or right and just really knowing that vision yeah like because the thing is what works for others potentially is not going to work for your journey I think I think what I've found is people take on too much advice yes because it's distracting yeah I think it can be distracting and honestly you learn on the job that's all I can tell you is you will learn on the job particularly when you already know what your north star is and you know where you're headed it anything else can be a bit of a deterrent I think so yeah I think it's distracting um what's a skill that you'd love to learn actually knitting because my mom's been my mom's been knitting up a storm yeah and I'm like I wish I just want to have the patience for that yeah it's a nice switcher yeah isn't it like I always anything to me that's escapism yes I'm like for the mind yeah and I said that I'd actually quite like to learn piano um because my my youngest is learning and I thought maybe I'd quite like to do that because I wanted to do that when I was younger but I didn't like the teacher oh my god I had the exact same I didn't like my piano teacher either that's so funny because I didn't like the teacher and then that was that that would be so I feel like you have to share that do it and share the journey.

58:41Quite nice to do together. I can literally play with one finger at the minute. That would actually be so cute. There's some work to do, that's for sure. I love that. What's one thing that you wish someone had told you before you started out? You just need to, like, the hard moments are nothing to fear. Like, they're actually really good for you personally and for the business. Kind of what I said before, like, you don't have to worry when those hard moments hit because a lot of people will give up in that moment. this is too much this is too hard is this worth it keep going yeah keep going no matter what if you really have that heartfelt mission and purpose it will get you through and those hard moments that shake you to the core will be actually good for yourself and for the business so like literally buckle in and when those hard moments hit be like oh something even better is coming on the other side just and it's going to test you it's going to ask you a million times are you sure you're sure you're sure but when you do stay strong in those moments you'll be very happy to see what is on the other side and there's always a lesson isn't there it's always kind of a sort of it might take you down a different path that you're like thank goodness that thing didn't you know come through because now we wouldn't be doing this and you always you know hindsight's a wonderful thing but it's like you say you're always on the brink of something great and a lesson like it's It's a lesson that you must have and learn.

1:00:07It's one of like in my heart. That's why it was brought to you. On the hardest moments are the greatest lessons that I've had in business. But I will also say it sounds corny, but listen to your intuition. The very few times I haven't are my only mistakes that I've ever made. Yeah. When you don't go, you go out. Yeah. What would be the dream collab for JS Health? A dream collab? you know we're seeing like these big sort of unlikely spaces which i think is quite cool now where that would that would have been frowned upon years ago and now it's like sort of places from different worlds but somehow it makes sense well i met up with vogue yesterday and i think my my dream would be to do a jayas health retreat where we just amazing and i guess that's a collab where we just educate like whether it's press and influences and customers i could I want to invite our last night.

1:00:58I actually met up with our top customers and we were saying how amazing would it be if we had a retreat, which could be press and our customers. We all come together and we just have this like weekend of full nutrition education. Oh my gosh, that would be incredible. That's the dream. Yes. That's the dream. In like sort of putting it into real life. That would be amazing. If you could choose one female figure as a mentor, past or present, who would that be? It would have to be my grandmother. She's about to turn 103. Stop. She worked until she was 92. She had the same store. She was a famous hat maker for like Nelson Mandela and his family.

1:01:31And she is just, so she has this line and actually the J's health community love it too. It's, she says, she like looks at me in the eye. She's like, box on Jess, box on. And what she's saying is keep going. And she does this thing with her hands. She goes, look forward. Do not turn your head to your left, right? Look forward, box on, box on. You have to wake up and box on. Don't look to your left. Don't look to your right. Don't look behind. She like does this whole thing with her hands. she's like no matter what Jess box on and my dad he's always had his own business too he says the same I'll like call him on in the middle of a work day be like how you going and he'll say boxing on like it's just it's in it's just like they literally um are in my heads my dad and my grandmother all day where you're sitting at your desk and you're sweating through the day through meeting to meeting you know and you're just like box on yes deep deep keep going yeah keep going just look and look forward because it's so easy as humans to want to look back like yes look back and so it just pulls you back like the energy of that like pulls you back and that's what she says so that's what my grandmother will say she goes if you look back it like pulls your energy back she's like no matter what look forward yeah stay forward it's like back there for a reason like does it with her hand so she's like yeah she's relaying she's talking to the energy behind what it is to look forward i love that i love that yeah and that's so nice that you have that to sort of go to midday when you're like okay no just box on box on yes i love it now it's time for three two one some quick financial questions powered by our friends at starling the bank on a mission to give founders confidence and control over their finances um i want to talk about some sort of financial habits now yeah and some i've got three financial questions which i think is something as women that we always shy away from.

1:03:18I know. It's so silly. It's so silly. I want to know what are two financial habits that's helped you scale JS Health without losing the sight of your mission? Oh, that's such a good question. Need to bring in the finance team. Actually, I always say my finance team is one of our strongest teams. I think I'm really lucky to have a CFO who loves to be profitable and I think in the early days you're like revenue revenue revenue but I realized profit is protection um I hope that answers your question like just being I think growing slower but being more profitable has become more interesting to me and as I told you earlier for me LTV retention how often our customers are coming back is really important to me yes yeah keeping hold of them yeah I want to know what are three money myths you think that hold women back from growing a business oh what's one that you think I think the way that sort of society has made us think that we that asking lots of questions about money and being so forthcoming is not I don't I don't know if this is correct me if I'm wrong here if this is a woman thing but it's definitely a real british thing that we're sort of told not to sort of ask questions yeah it's a little bit crash or it's you know it's just not it's not the done thing yeah and you know when you it might not necessarily be in your friendship group but peers that you might have that are in a similar space to you it's okay to go when it comes to this what did you do in that space i think one myth is that you're supposed to know it all and figure it all out and just, you know, hope it happens in the right way.

1:05:09I think we need to talk a bit more about money. Totally. And it's a healthy conversation to have where I think it makes us all a little bit embarrassed. I know, it does. And it's like a shameful thing as well. Like, I think if there's someone in my space or they ask me a question, they're like, what did you think for that? Like, I would happily say, well, I would do this or I would ask for X. But I think we're sort of taught that it's like really sort of uncouth. Shameful. I know. I think I definitely feel like women need to ask the questions anyway, like what you just said. Like it's going to I have had moments where I feel really silly to ask a question in a big finance meeting.

1:05:47And I'm like, Jess, if you don't ask the question, like I feel like you're going to regret it down, down the load. So like just what I guess the lesson is like swallow the potential silliness or embarrassment, which you shouldn't feel in the first place. and ask the question because I've found that that's how I've learned. Like I've learned so much. I haven't had no business background. I'm so lucky to have a business team and a finance team, but I personally have had no business background. So the only time you too, the only times I've learned is from those questions and they can be annoying.

1:06:19Like people might find them annoying and silly, but like they, that's when I've learned, oh, okay. That's what LTV is. Oh, that's what retention is oh my gosh that's how we're gonna get to x profit like and um just that's how I've learned and I think the other thing is just putting aside the shame and embarrassment that we might just have as women in business you know like um I think I definitely feel like I've had to work harder to be taken seriously in those rooms like I'm often and I feel like you are too like I'm often in rooms I'm the only female I mean the vitamin industry is truly notoriously just male dominated yeah I would see that because I would think like at one sort of period of time I think it's all kind of protein shakes and like muscle build and all the big giants yeah that's how I would sort of perceive that space but what's amazing is you've come in with such a feminine energy and you're shining do you know what I mean well I actually had a big meeting last week in LA, like literally all men, very high powered men.

1:07:22And I was like, it was just like an interesting, I just is interesting how you have to learn to be very comfortable and confident in those. And it will take time. Like I think if I was sitting at that table that I sat at in LA last week, five, 10 years ago, the truth is I would have been uncomfortable and I would have not had the confidence, but to know the lesson is confidence grows. It grows and grows and grows and it will grow. So like anyone out there who's feeling like, I don't have the confidence, just know that it grows. It's coming. And the confidence in the room and the financial conversations, it's coming.

1:07:56Just give yourself time. And as you said, you learn on the job and you get more and more protective of what you've built and more and more confident in what you've built. I know, like all I need to do is look at my, and same as you and with your product, I can tell, like all I need to do is look at my formulations on my desk. literally I have them all lined up on my desk and I'm like I know what those formulations do for people I know that people won't and can't live without them so that gives me the confidence to go into those financial rooms where I don't have experience and say I know what JSL vitamins is for people like that's that's the confidence and then this is what I bring and it's what I bring it's also knowing that actually I think one other myth is that you assume because you're not good at something like for me numbers finance whatever that's never been my like and I don't profess to be the best person I'm totally not it's not you know it's not my strength however it's something that I have to be aware of yeah so it's almost knowing that I think there was one sort of if I go back a few years ago I would perhaps think it's not my strong point I don't actually love it I don't enjoy it at all so I'm gonna stick to what I do best yeah but actually what's important is that you're really across everything awareness yeah the awareness I think you're right I think you're right and I think it doesn't mean it's your skill set but you have to be aware and then on what you just said the the final lesson is you exactly what you just said I don't know if you do need to be good at everything like it is like you can build a business where you in time can build the team that is better at that like potentially not in the early days but you and I have been able to hire teams that are better at that than us and And so like, I just think what happens is women feel like, well, if I'm not good at business and finance, I can't do this.

1:09:41I just have met so many women who have been able to do it, who have leaned on the experts in their team to help them. We are the visionaries. We have the vision. Exactly. We have the heartfelt mission. We have the passion that burns us out. And we have, we know we have the passion to create the best products. and I think it's I think I in the early days I would have felt I did I think feel like I don't have business I don't have a business background how am I going to do this but I'm saying I don't think you need to be good at everything it goes back to your point earlier if you was great at everything like that maybe would have informed you to make different decisions right so you may have stopped with those formulas that you're so passionate about because guess what financially it's probably not exactly actually maybe that is so that's why that's your why and that's why everybody has a different role and that's why you build a team we can't all be good at everything 100 um and then lastly what do you think has been your biggest financial power move as a founder almost something that might have changed the trajectory of the business um I think recently I've been very protective over retention.

1:10:56Like I only am willing to create products that I think will have really strong customer return, really strong retention. I'm not interested in jumping on trends and I'm interested in being like financially. like I'd rather have returning customers than just a whole bunch of new customers who try our product once and never really want to come back so I hope that answers the question I think it's just you want to keep retention I'd rather slow I'd rather grow slower and really ensure that every product is so transformational that people can't help themselves and come back time and time again. And so what's like a recent one is our magnesium is consistently number two, number three across every region.

1:11:43And, you know, it's interesting that's number two and number three, but we actually don't push it that much, you know, which is so interesting. We really, our marketing is much more on other about more on our ingestible beauty products. And I've actually redirected the team a little bit and made sure that there's a lot of brand awareness that's going into the magnesium formulations we have a couple of different kinds because of that retention like our magnesium people once they once they try it they really there really is no going back so it's just kind of those small little redirections of like it might not be the sexiest in marketing but for me it's super important same as our creatine same as our fish oil you'll hear me always with the team talking about probably the more non-sexy products um even our vitalyx collagen is just marine collagen with a whole bunch of incredible antioxidants and we don't push it that much in our marketing but again once people try it they almost never will stop it because they feel and see such a difference and so i'll redirect the team and say it doesn't matter that it's not a big focus um with our talent or ambassadors but it's really important we push it in different ways with partnerships because that retention is so so important or just even brand awareness ads or gifting like whatever it is whatever different marketing strategy there is just um pushing products that I know will make a true difference even if they're not the sexiest yeah yeah it makes it makes perfect sense um each episode I ask of our guests to leave a tip if somebody is listening to this who is kind of in awe of what you've built and wants to perhaps build something in a similar vein what would one piece of advice to a lady looking to launch who's in that startup phase that's sort of looking on in admiration what would that piece of advice be if you hold on to that heartfelt mission and purpose and passion that why the why of why am I doing this like for me I just want women to feel better and healthier I've held onto that so tightly that it's it's what's gotten me to my desk every day for the last 10 years probably it's it's a very simple thing it's like you have to have that really really really strong passion the strongest why why am I doing this because there will be those days that are going to question every gonna have you question everything they're gonna push you to want to give up time and time again I don't know one founder who hasn't had those days those moments who's like whoa this is so hard but I can say what's gotten me back to my desk on the Monday morning Tuesday morning Wednesday morning is Thursday morning Friday morning Saturday morning in the early days yeah is it's just my customers for me it's my my why is my customers my why is my customers.

1:14:46That's it. Even on our press tour this week, everyone knows I have to meet up with our top 10 or 20 UK customers. It's not important to anyone else in the team, but it's really important to me because I talk to them and I see firstly how our products have changed their lives, but also what they're struggling with, what they need, just how the state of their health is. And that feedback from them is the most important part of my job. It's exactly how it was when I was in private practice, sitting across like this, like I did with my customers last night and them telling me I'm waking up feeling tired, I'm struggling with sugar cream, whatever it might be, and having that health discussion.

1:15:21So full circle. It's so full circle and so beautiful, yeah. And so it's so interesting because it fills up my cup. Like last night just does so much for my spirit in this business, you know, and I think it's always for a lot of founders it might feel like, for all of us it feels like, oh, I've got to add an extra thing in. And I've got to add an extra customer meetup to my press tour. I do community Zooms with my customers. Like it's an extra element to your work. Already huge workload, right? We already have huge workloads with our current admin. But it's just if I keep focusing on the why. Yeah, it's a non-negotiable for you.

1:16:04Then it's what keeps me going in the company. Absolutely. And then lastly, we talk about Ladies Who Launch. huge but when it comes to being a lady who lunches what if I was if you was to sort of have lunch at your desk on a typical day to sort of see you through what are you eating where are you do you break for lunch do you work your lunch like how does that lunch hour look for you yes I'll be honest I have no I don't have a proper lunch break I live in LA it probably looks like getting a goop bowl yes gueness paltrow's brand really yummy healthy really good lunches in la from um ubi eats and then it looks like what i've been getting like the teriyaki bowl or they share the best salads and just chicken and it's probably at my desk or sometimes around our kitchen counter in our office and chatting to my team it looks like unfortunately i feel like i wish it was a more mindful lunch break like I probably should speak to Brookie about this you know my EA I feel like because I think it's really important to take half 20 minutes or half an hour where you can just take a breath digest eat your lunch and then go back to it I just think as founders you just feel like every minute of the day is so important yes but you've got a lot to get through and particularly if you're yeah sort of going offline of an evening and you've got your time in the morning yeah it's like I suppose when you're there you just I'm just I'm one of those people I feel Aries again like we're all or nothing so like when I'm in my day it's like my husband always says this about me because he's more he's a Libra he's so much more balanced right when I'm in my day it's everyone knows it's like full force but I'm also able to do the opposite like when I'm off I can be off yeah I'm able to compartmentalize a bit yes um but sometimes at lunchtime my husband and I will go for a walk around the block and grab a smoothie and so that's and then it's funny you get such a a nice wave of energy after that so i think so my girls my team all go for lunchtime walks it's the sweetest thing it's in sydney and our hq in sydney and in la i can't we've kind of always encouraged that they go for like a half an hour walk gorgeous like and then they have their lunch and then they go for a walk and it's amazing how much fresh energy it brings to your day yeah yeah yeah absolutely i mean a walk will do that for anyone particularly if you're in la la and sunny sunny sunny sunny very lucky very great over here you might need you might need an umbrella on that i know it takes the o-drop a little bit totally but thank you so much it's been so good to talk to you it's been so good to finally properly get together and loved it i've been such a fan of the brand as you know for a long time and just to kind of unpack everything it's been brilliant no truly thank you so much for your love and support towards our brand in the early early days i was girl you were the girl and even with the press this morning we were all we i don't know how it even came up but we were like we love her like she is a true like you just really are the real deal thank you so thank you so much for your support thank you don't forget to follow us on apple and spotify or wherever you get your podcast to make sure that you don't miss out because next time i'm going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched if like me you're a watcher then please follow us on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe.