Behind Space NK's Viral Miami Influencer Trip

0:00Rochelle: Today's guest is head of PR at Space NK, Jini Sanassy, the woman behind one of the beauty industry's most talked about campaigns this year, the viral Miami influencer trip that completely took over social media. In this Launchbox episode, we're unpacking the strategy behind modern marketing from influencer trips and EMVs, inclusivity, virality and what actually makes people talk about brand online.

0:30Three, two, one, zero. All engines running. Look out, we have a gun.

0:36Rochelle: I'm so excited that you're here. I'm so excited that we're talking all about the trip that broke the internet. Oh my gosh, who knew? Who knew? When I got a text from you last year, end of last year? Yeah, we planned it early. Yeah, and it was literally probably Christmas or just after Christmas. I can't remember, but I remember it being winter. Yeah, I think it was the beginning of January that we started planning it. People don't realise the work that goes into it. and I just remember you going fancy Miami and I was like oh yeah and then I looked I was like there's nothing in the diaries yet there's nothing but there's about to be locked and there's so much I want to talk to you about because I know I mean I was there and I experienced it in it all its glory but I can only imagine the amount that goes into the kind of back end to the you know the thing that we were all spoiled with and the amazing trip we had and the trip that people got to watch on like they were saying it was like a reality show which it was really it really was I can just imagine what went into it before we arrived so I want to talk about people saw palm trees boat days all the content but sort of I mean at one point it even got compared to the bathers I think apparently me Stacey and Olivia snubbed the bathers I really appreciate you doing that but before anyone got on the plane what was the kind of actual job this campaign needed to achieve for Space NK?

1:57So this summer campaign is our biggest campaign of the year, one of our biggest. It's that and Christmas. Right. And for us, the moment is the second year in a row that we've done a summer campaign. It is the biggest moment for brand awareness that we have. Right. And so what we need to do is deliver brand awareness, deliver talkability, get people thinking about summer in the mindset of summer. So we do it at the beginning of May. So people are just starting to think about summer right and we then integrate our brand partners to make sure it feels really authentic it's not forced it's not like over orchestrated because that isn't who we are as a brand half of the reason people really love the space and k brand trips is because and we don't do that many of them um is because they feel really authentic it's like getting a group of people together who usually don't know each other yes and that was the case with miami yes i want to

2:50Rochelle: That's actually a really interesting point because I probably knew a hand. Obviously, my sister was there, so my DNA, I know her. But that was a strategy. But that was a strategy. Because she's moved to America. She's moved to LA. And I thought, why not reunite the sisters? That was a starting point. And we were so thankful. We had, like, tears and everything. I know. And I think you made everyone else cry when it was time to go home. When we had time to go home, we were like, yeah. Like, when you say strategy, how do you sit down and talk about, because I probably knew a handful of people there.

3:19Rochelle: There were lots of people that I hadn't met before. How many of us were there in total? 18. 18. Okay, so you've got 18 influencers, celebrities, however you want to look at it. How do you sit and decide, okay, is it a really conscious effort of thinking this person's going to gel with this person, this person might know this person? Exactly that. And I always say it's like a long-term effort to get into the position where you can take 18 people, some of them have never met before some of them have met but aren't people that you'd what you'd be together with for like four or five days so it's we start with from a place of knowing and having those deep relationships with all of the guest lists and then it's like um I say it's like an NFL draft where you're putting together a team of like people who are going to deliver what you need from a brand perspective but also bring people together and actually have a really lovely time knowing that they're all going to gel because when that piece of the picture works when it works from a dynamics perspective that's when you get the output which we created in Miami yeah which was an incredible time where people were just having the best time really authentically and I think that's what I think you I think what you could really see is whether we I suppose people ultimately didn't know whether we knew each other or not no yeah it was like an instant thing that we were all in on this trip and yeah we got on so well it was such a good dynamic of people that have even known each other or never met and I think you could really everyone that I spoke to since I've been home because I think a lot of my best friends muted me because they were like I can't bear to watch this anymore this was so jealous um but actually everyone was like it just looked like we all had a ball and it was true everybody everybody got on and yeah I mean well we're planning a reunion like yeah seeing everyone wednesday yeah yeah um if you had to describe the campaign objective in one line what was it like what was it that you were really set out to do on that trip brand awareness right and then have the secondary layer which is the commercial aspect of it so like to introduce brands products but authentically so it doesn't feel really forced and orchestrated the activities that we did we had a brand each day for Miami yes we brought together and I think that's one of the key things as well about brand trips in general you have brands that just do their brand trips with their the brand they work for like you know that solo brand for us it's more about integrating our partners into it too yeah so we selected brands to come and partner with us in Miami and some of those brands are like indie brands like Kapari you know they they aren't a brand that would necessarily have that that that budget to be able to put together a big trip like that with so many people in Miami and Miami was chosen because it was the destination for the entire campaign I didn't just pull it out the sky and think oh I'd like to go to Miami I'm so pleased I'm marketing team I mean what's not to love about Miami um but yeah Miami is the the creative inspiration for the campaign so we started with the fact that we were going to Miami then we looked at the guest list so we started putting people together from the people that I know and then thinking right they work and then what's the next part of the picture right and looking to tap into communities as well I think yes that's the it's there's a really it's been bubbling for a while and I've been beating the community drum for a long time and I think that's half of the reason why people were commenting that they felt they were watching a reality television program it's because the red thread that kind of tied everyone together was community yeah and I think people really the people that you selected really speak to a different audience.

7:17Rochelle: They do. It was to go wide. So I think maybe that's why it was traveling so wide because we all sort of have a different way of creating content or kind of speaking to the people that follow us. And I think that's what, for me, made it so clever. I think we should myth bust for a minute. Yeah, go on. Because there was lots of rumors that I was reading online or things that I was getting tagged in. And, you know, Marvin got paid a billion pounds to DJ. And there was lots of kind of interesting rumors. So let's kind of debunk all of this because it's really important that we do that. Because A, I think what you've managed to do so well over the years of your career is build relationships with people.

7:54Rochelle: And I think a moment like this is where that really comes into play. Of course, we're all very excited to receive a swanky invitation to Miami. But I suppose typically people are thinking we all got paid. Because I think if it was someone else that I didn't have a relationship with, maybe that is what we would be paid for, to go and show up for a brand. Yeah. But you've got such brilliant relationships with people that you tell us, did we get paid to come on the trip or did we not? No, you didn't. Not one person was paid to go on that trip. What went into that trip, the work that has gone into relationships.

8:28And it's something that I find really important because I think sometimes the art of relationships is sometimes lost.

8:36Rochelle: Yeah. And the industry has become quite transactional. so it's more like here's my brand or product take it you make content and it feels very over orchestrated as well so like everything feels branded there isn't that behind the scenes moment there isn't something that people can connect with and like follow along with and that was intentional from our part yeah that we wanted to have that group of people that felt like they were on the first summer holiday of the year a group of friends and we are all friends now I think even people that didn't know each other the group chat still lives on I've never like I've never also it's like me and Stacey were actually saying the other day I think we both had echoed the same sentiment that actually this is about the only group chat that I've not muted I normally press mute for a year I nearly pressed mute when the boys were talking about the other night yeah it got very close that got very close yeah I needed had to moderate but I think it's I think you did such a good job of creating a group of people, but create an experience that we all felt really lucky and really grateful to be a part of.

9:41Rochelle: Obviously, we talk about choosing the right group of people that will cover lots of different audiences, but also really gel and have them all together. But when we talk about what I think you did so well is have a different brand take over a moment of the day. So we would have like, well, the first day was like a welcome breakfast with Space NK yourselves. And then we went on to have a boat day with Kapari. And then the next day it would be, I don't know, Fenty at lunch and Fleur at dinner. So I think you did a really good job of letting the brand own a specific activation. Yes. So how did you sort of cherry pick the brands that were going to take part?

10:22It was really looking at the activity that we were doing and what brand would fit really authentically with the trip. There was no retrofitting. It had to feel really natural. Right. So it didn't feel like a branded moment. Yes. So like L 'Occitane doing the arrival massages.

10:39Rochelle: That was genius. Wasn't it? I thought so. Because I love the thought of, you know, having that first night and you've been flying. Everyone feels puffy, tired, jet lagged. and you know that was the the first moment where you think right that works who can be our partner it was the option I think for like the the talent on the trip it was like the the way it was optional girls do you want a lymphatic drainage massage tonight in your room yeah because we're all you know tonight's a chill night yeah like obviously yeah lymphatic drainage massage like a sound products yeah so I think it but it was the kind of way that it felt so considered like you say every activation was so well thought out yeah and it didn't mean just because that moment was like something we were doing in the room that they got any less attention no we were still so excited to be pampered in the room absolutely and I think it you know when you plan a brand trip one of the things that I think you can get wrong is that you over orchestrate and you like make everything mandatory and like you have to be here at 7 p.m and you have to have your picture taken in this particular way yeah that just isn't something it's not it's not it feels too micromanaged and that's why you get and a lot of brand trips also have deliverables for guests yeah oh that's interesting we don't this was my first ever brand trip so i've you've set the bar babe yeah i've set the bar i've i don't even know if i've ever been invited on a brand trip i've never been to one anyway i feel really privileged that so many people who have not done brand trips came on my brand trip up wrong yeah because we've never done a brand trip and now we're expecting massages in the room when we arrive and optional lunches.

12:16Well let's see whether people can keep up shall we?

12:18Rochelle: Yeah well I think they're gonna really really struggle with that. I want to talk about the way that you are incredibly considered and I think you do that so so well as a brand. We know that summer society is such a big part of what you do now. I remember following the trip to Mikanas last year and you know my sister went on that one and she was saying how incredible it was wasn't a time that everyone had and I think on last year's trip you there was a lot of which I suppose this was I know you guys and how you work and you're such a considered team but there was a lot of great attention on you guys for the way that you thoughtfully accommodated the Muslim creators by kind of ensuring that they had a private villa to sunbathe comfortably and you know alongside modest swimwear consideration so I think that's really really important and how you kind of arrive at those decisions and how you make that you know really it should go without saying and it's something that a lot of brands I presume overlook yeah and you know what I think's really sad I think people sometimes look at the fact that we did that for those guests and think what a great strategy it's not a strategy yeah it is the way I try and describe it imagine if you had a friend coming to your home and that friend had a particular requirement be it she's a she's she's she's muslim she only eats salami be it that you you know you had activities within a party you had within your friends you would always accommodate that friend and make them feel comfortable and the way it always starts and this applies to mick and off san miami it starts with the relationship and the respect for the relationship with the people that are coming it's so much more than just create a brand we are working with people who we are we've become friends with yeah and so choosing to have the separate villa for the the guests that were muslim and the thought process when it comes to that is why shouldn't they have the same experience as everyone else why should they miss out on this trip and there are content creators and they are influencers but not having that would have stopped them yeah taking part in such experience Absolutely.

14:35And they wouldn't feel the moments where people got to relax. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we had a separate villa. We flew in halal meat from the mainland islands. So they didn't always have to eat vegetarian food. But that was done out of a mark of respect for the guests.

14:51Rochelle: And like you're saying, it's almost a sad thing that people think that's a good. Yeah. What a great strategy. And it's like, no, no, no. We're just accommodating our guests. Let's not box tick when it comes to inclusivity. Let's just make it part of the DNA of the team. Always step back. and look from afar and think, am I doing the right thing? Have I been respectful? Would I treat a friend like that? Yeah. You know, and adapt because of that. And you're not doing it for press coverage. None of that was planned. And I suppose you wouldn't have even known that you would have got press coverage.

15:23Rochelle: No, no, no. You're just making sure that those creators feel comfortable. Do you think brands sometimes underestimate how much those thoughtful details can impact how sort of safe and seen a creator will feel absolutely and that changes the dynamic of a trip as well the the money shot for the trip is for everyone to feel like they're actually on holiday for our summer trip we do them once a year you want people to feel so relaxed that they leave feeling that something magical has happened that everyone's got together as a group and that will make them want to share content and the content they do share will feel really authentic it doesn't feel forced but it's not a deliverable no it's not a deliverable people go wrong like when someone say right i need three stories yes yeah one grid post one one real yeah i'm like oh god i've got to do a real yeah three stories to say whereas well i didn't even know i i mean i probably gave you 20 yeah because i wasn't even thinking about it but i was just like yeah more than that a day but i'm just like enjoying it so of course we want And I think it's almost, that to me goes a long way.

16:30Rochelle: When you're not chased for something, when you're not pested, I'm just like, I'm having a brilliant time. I'm going to share it. Yeah. And I think it's actually as simple as that. It is as simple. And people really overlook it. It really is as simple as that. There isn't like some sort of magic strategy that you can apply to a brand trip to get it right. How do you draw the line between, I suppose, creative freedom and non-negotiables? Yeah. Like, of course, you want to give us all the freedom to be able to share. And, you know, in doing so, you probably will end up getting more because we're just having a lovely time.

17:02Rochelle: Yeah. But I suppose ultimately for you, there will be non-negotiables. I mean, I wasn't aware of them because I wasn't made to feel like that. But there will be sort of targets that you have to meet and goals that you have to hit from putting on such a kind of trip like this. It's the effort that we put into the organisation of the trip that delivers that. Okay. When you get that bit right, you then just hope that you've got, and it is a feeling for me and Tilly and Lily, the girls, we've all got rhyming names. Ginny, Tilly, Lily, you'll never forget them. I'll never forget them. The threesome.

17:35I know. We have a feeling when we put it together and it's, you know, you start thinking about everything that the guests will be doing and how we're going to make them feel. It's more than just, you know, oh, here's just an itinerary and you know let's just put all that together and it's a little bit repetitive there has to be a point of difference for each day so you feel like you're doing something each day yeah the brand messages need to feel really natural and you know not over forced so people just think i'm having a a beautiful boat day with a kapari and look everywhere we look there's kapari yes sun cream so i'm gonna try it and then they naturally capture content in that way and it feels and it's I suppose the production's really key.

18:22Rochelle: That's one thing I really noticed. It was like the production on it was just incredible. Like everywhere was branded to perfection. And I suppose if you've got, you know, I mean, I do it with my little cocoa. I'll put a decal anywhere. And if we're doing an event and there's decals, and people are just taking natural content at the event, and it's got my little cocoa branding behind it, fantastic. And that's the message in itself. It doesn't need to be forced at all. it's just the environment that you insert your guests into yes just feels very natural and that's the work that that sort of takes a lot of time before we get there would you say the majority of the work is done before we arrive or would you say when the hard bit are you spinning plates when we're when we're there that we don't even know about oh yeah definitely yeah definitely i'm going morning i'm like oh my god everything's going wrong everything's gone to shit usually we do a lot of the planning beforehand and we work with production so we again relationships are the key things so it wouldn't work if none of us were visible during the trip yeah we're running around setting up the next moment whereas we we never do that for the big trips we have production travel with us and studio 82 produced our um miami trip and they were incredible we should shout out to i noticed the details like that and i'm like yeah production was 11 hours they it's just so great and And it's almost like they never, you don't see them.

19:51Rochelle: Yeah. But that's the beauty of brilliant production. Yes. Because everything's ready. There's no stress. Like, I mean, the detail is like exceptional. It just makes it. They probably got sick of me because I'm the geek that turns up early to look at all of that. And I'm like looking at them tie rope around bottles of fleur. I'm like, I love it. I love it all. We started working on the ideas and like the plan probably in November last year. so even though the brands would kind of make sure their activations I suppose are really sticking with their brand guidelines yes sort of on brand for them yeah will you have a real say on how that looks too so it's a collaborative process with the brand definitely right so we knew that we wanted a hair salon that was able to do um hair for all of the guests morning and night which we were so thankful for because that humidity the humidity was killing was killing me Monica from friends it's definitely me so then we know we need someone a brand that's really like at the top of their game for styling that have an artistic team that can travel so color well we're our partners because they can deliver that super easily so um that's how they were selected then you have kapari last summer they had their viral moment with their shimmer spf we knew that we wanted to anniversary that for the brand um we know that our customers love that brand so automatically they fit into place and they become our SPF partner um Fenty is a newer brand to Space NK but we'd found these cars that um that drive on water super fast so that was the boys were loving that the boys loved it they that was like the shut up and drive moment yeah you know and because obviously one of Brianna's songs so obviously Fenty took that moment um the pool party we had worked with oola hemrickson before and again relationships come into it we're very close to the oola hemrickson pr team so working with them is super easy and we know that so they became the skincare partner they that that brand as well all of the brands that were included i should mention most of them anyway um have travel sets that they've created bespoke for space and k for the campaign right so again the minis to travel with yes yeah throughout the summer when we launch our campaign we've got lots of brands that have created these like value sets right where you can like you know buy them and take them on holiday because they're under 100 mil um so it's just thinking about where the customer mindset and do you sort of take a brand from every different category so you have skincare partner hair care partner one of each partner and that and that's the way i'm supposed to not dilute the messaging for each brand and it doesn't feel repetitive i'm already stressed for you about how many skincare hair care partners are going to want to be involved next year yeah no we already have a bit of a list of people that i've already reached out to you i bet i bet without giving us like a number yeah um which sort of budget lines matter most on a trip like this is it like travel staffing production like how like what is the kind of bit where you're like okay all the money's gone here well it depends where the trip and the inspiration for the campaign is so Miami flights ain't cheap go off flights are not cheap and we're in a fuel um moment where no one has any fuel so like flights aren't cheap so that's where we invested in taking people to Miami but once there we had an amazing partner with the Delano Hotel so they looked after us brilliantly it's a brand new gorgeous hotel that's just opened been refurbished um so it's actually not as expensive as people would think and because we're working with our brand partners everything's kind of a bit of a collaborative process so like we're bringing really great you know celebrities and social content creators we're bringing the guest list so they they are able to like you know jump in and you know do their part of the picture which is fantastic and because we've had this collaborative process it's not as expensive as people would think I know you know yeah because the brands have to also invest in the trip too absolutely yeah definitely they have to it makes sense this but I think listeners will care about the most because the virality is lovely but somebody still needs to prove that it works yes yeah and I think that's I suppose what is the scariest part for you yeah okay this is great yeah have we hit yeah markers that we need to hit and how much pressure was on you and not maybe put on you but that you felt yourself yeah before we always feel pressure ourselves yeah I think that's always the way right it's not like somebody's necessarily putting it on you it's like no this Is this the self-pressure because I want this to be a success?

24:45Rochelle: Yes, yes. Did you have KPIs before that trip began? And did that fill you with a bit of dread? So it did fill me with a bit of dread for the pure reason that last year, the Mykonos trip had a lot of virality. Right. Because of the content that some of our guests created on the adaptions that we'd made to the trip. Right. So we always try and uplift what we've delivered. So we were aiming for an earned media value, which basically means for anyone who doesn't know what earned media value is. Which is an EMV. It's EMV, yeah. So it's basically the value of the content should you have bought it. Right.

25:27So it's like if you'd have paid for that same amount of content in an ad format, that's how much it would have cost. Right. We run a report from the start to the end of the trip. ours is still running because we're still getting content um where because we can't stop posting there's um it's at 7.5 million at the moment we we would hope to have got to six i thought that was a punchy target and i was you thought six million was a punchy target yeah i did i think i thought it was a punchy target because it was that was about a 25 uplift in what we achieved in mykonos which was an incredible trip so you were basically thinking okay this was big we know

26:10Rochelle: that we performed well but 6 million takes us to 25 % more than we achieved there. But we want to push ourselves. Are we going to do it? Yeah, absolutely. And also we should flag that there was other brand trips happening at the time. Absolutely. You had Marks and Spencer, the fashion team taking people to Ibiza. Yep. There were kind of gym brands that I saw. There were other trips happening. Yes. So to be able to kind of make your mark is always a worry and you're not necessarily ever going to be aware of when other people, what week people are planning those trips. No, no, no. we didn't have a clue we only knew that until we saw it until we saw it play out yeah yeah so so essentially what you're saying this is i suppose the highest emv you've received for a single activation 7.5 million pounds yeah is what it would have cost you in advertising yes had you bought it yes absolutely i mean which is i mean that that doesn't include the press coverage either so that's just social that's just social content from the guests and when and if you're looking at press you know i mean there was i saw some interesting press articles oh yeah sorry about that if you're if you're looking at press i mean that's a whole different market altogether isn't it 100 and we never expected to have the volume of press coverage that we generated yeah most major national newspapers covered it online there was 107 pieces of coverage for a week for over a week um people are still using the content you know now i saw one today yeah yeah same oh there we go but they actually said i was in london i was like that weather is definitely yeah it's definitely miami um you i know that the kapari activation brought in i mean lots of new customers yes yeah um if you was gonna advise a founder with i don't know a 10k budget yeah with three metrics that they should obsess over yeah what do you think if when it comes to like a vanity metric what do you think they should ignore earned media value without commercial results right so because the two have break that down for me so emv as a figure on its own and i think the industry is evolving quite a lot because emv used to be the the you know the holy grail what everyone was obsessing over but and it does it it provides a certain level of brand awareness but if that brand awareness doesn't convert commercially what exactly does it mean yeah I think there's a there's a missing piece of the picture and I work for a retailer so I think you need to look at the EMV figure but then you also need to work with you know the wider marketing department in terms of you know the the commercial results that the the brands delivered throughout that week so we've seen both for the miami trip right we've seen high levels of emv but also really really fantastic commercial results in terms of new customers shopping with us in terms of um the brands that were involved and uplifting you know what what they're selling i was going to ask you Yeah, actually.

29:19Rochelle: Can you can you directly see the. Yeah, I suppose the correlation between what we were out there doing and brand sales. Is that really is it really clear to see? Yeah, because if you look at the the affiliate platforms like. LTK, for instance, if people are linking via that, we have all the analytics so we can see where people have people have clicked on the link, whether it lands on our on our website and then what happens to that customer. so we're able to see all of that by working really closely with our digital partnerships team can you give me the tea or is it naughty to tell me which brand performed the best over that week i mean they all did they they all had their own moment kapari i think was significant stand out stand out because they they people just loved the um on the boat day itself works so well works so well yeah but i mean all brands saw a halo effect and that's why it's successful it's not even about the social content and the press coverage it's because it worked for our brand partners too and it worked for space and k commercially so that's the reason you do a brand trip but i wouldn't want anyone to look at the brand trip that we've done and think that's the right option that's what i need to do as a brand founder because it's not always the right lever to pull we do one big brand trip a year the rest of the time we're thinking of other activations that are you know less expensive but still build the relationships that you need yes yes it is those relationships that are so important those relationships that led you to be able yeah it's the culmination of like years of work yes bringing people closer to us and you know like trust you and to trust us and know that we would respectfully approach a brand trip that i think that's why we get the level of absolutely attendance that we did um as with everything when these moments happen.

31:15Rochelle: Not everyone will see the trip in the same way. Of course. We're there, we're having a lovely time. Lots of people are living through it. Yes. But some people sort of, they love the spectacle, the inclusivity. Others thought it looked a bit excessive and the guest list wasn't quite right. What criticism did you expect and what criticism genuinely surprised you? I think people, I think there is a conversation, which is a it's a conversation that I think needs to be had in terms of brand trips because brand trips are the things that show up especially from our perspective ours exploded so much that you're never going to get a hundred percent of positive sentiment it is impossible because viral there's just that's quite polarizing impossible that content's going to reach people that aren't engaged in a brand trip experience they didn't want to follow along because that's not the type of content they love um they you know I think we got um some people who felt like they would like to be on the trip themselves like why what do we do for our community and one of those things that I would say in response to that is the people that did follow along who are part of our community regard it's not about follower size we spent so much time looking for those individuals finding their content online putting together it's the same gifting that you got i was gonna say this actually because i thought that was so lovely like people that weren't on the trip yeah we're like we would have loved to have been there you sent them such a nice yeah package from all of the brands that were involved as well so there was something from fenty something from oola the space and case summer society um limited edition colored bag and travel bag we we did a little package and that's gone out to so many of our community members those that followed along and I've also seen them the videos of them receiving them I got like served quite a few of them and they were like oh my gosh I can't believe the team like I've always wanted to be at one of these things they've just sent me and I think it's such a nice touch because one thing when I think of Space St.

33:20Rochelle: Carrey I do always think you are community first oh absolutely and like you say these trips are really well you do one big trip a year and I think it just happened that there was something about this trip that landed like it was well it's technically the biggest brand trip to have come out the UK. And I think that is the most, and I know that you're uncomfortable when I give you too much credit. Yeah, I don't like credit. But you should like it because what you, and it's a small team. Three. There's three of you. No agency, it's just us. No agency, three of you that are in-house that do such an incredible job to pull off the biggest brand trip that the UK has seen.

33:55Rochelle: Yeah. Like that, you must feel like, I know that you're incredibly modest and you won't have it. I'm really proud of the team as well. Yeah. Because we've all worked together for so long. And we care. We care about what we do. And it could be, I think people kind of, you know, the things that people talk about the most, they talk about, you know, the big brand trip that we've just done. But one of my greatest joys is spending time online, looking for people that might need a little bit of space and care in their life. That is where my joy comes from. there was one girl who will stick with me she did a piece of content referencing the brand trip but it was more about the fact that she hadn't connected with female friends and she'd never had a girl's holiday so I I just it just really spoke to me so I found her sent her got her email address and I sent her a gift voucher I love you I love that is just so huge I sent it to her.

34:56Rochelle: It's a good job you don't own Space NK. No, we'd have no money left. No, there'd be no money because you're like, you're the kindest person ever. I think one of the things that is really important is looking after everybody. So like, yes, the brand trips are amazing and I have great relationships with VIPs, but even like silly things like the PA we did with Selena Gomez in our Oxford Circus store on Friday, I made sure that people that had been part of her community and I've met them at launch that they were there there yeah because we care about absolutely how people feel it's so powerful it's so powerful I think and you could they're the moments for me that really sing and you can really feel that and you can't we touched on it before you can't fake that level no authenticity you can't and people are so savvy now and they understand how it works yeah to have to have the relationship that you do with not only the talent but the customers and the community we spend time all of those brands that you house at space okay we spend time in store and like half the magic of what we create is understanding who our customer is yeah and how she feels yeah and you know it it isn't just about the brand trips the brand trips what everyone's talking about there's many And it puts all eyes on it, right?

36:18And I think that is ultimately what the kind of MO of the trip is.

36:23Rochelle: Yes. It's brand awareness. You want eyes on it. Yeah. And I mean, you've done it, girl. I can't believe it. And I know because I was with you that you were like, oh my God, we've got an EMV of six billion. I can't believe this. And then - I couldn't believe that we actually made it. I was like, thank God. You didn't just make it. You went over it. You're at seven point, what are we now? 7.5. 7.6, sorry. 7.6. the one thing I'd say is what do we do next year as long as I'm there I couldn't care you absolutely are as long as I'm still invited I said it at the last dinner I feel like there was something magical about all the people we brought together what would be fun is if we could all pick a new recruit yeah we have to like we all have new people come and we like yeah we need more people the boys seem to think they're founding members now they do they I think I would be in a lot of trouble if they didn't come to everything that I don't know who knew Marv's got a bald head but who knew he'd be such a can I just say there is no party that can happen if Marvin is not there oh god don't tell him that he needs to bring his actually we should touch on this on his USB yeah he doesn't leave without it and even if no one wants him to DJ he will find a way yes and I think that's the other funny thing people were like and they got him over to DJ I'm like no we actually didn't ask him at first he was just like guys I'm going to play some tunes he did it once and then everywhere he went we were like we can't go home yet Marv come on 20 minutes We should talk about this kind of, people thought that this was, there was like this plus one strategy.

37:51Rochelle: No, there wasn't a plus one strategy. So talk me through that, because I think that's quite interesting. I think that's what made it feel like such a sort of family, friendship kind of trip. There were no plus ones as such. I was telling Marv he was my plus one, by the way. No, he's a lovely guest. He's a guest and he, apparently we paid him a lot of money to DJ, which we didn't, which is hilarious. don't worry i won't be putting an invoice in traditionally people that you wouldn't see in the content yes ones are people that wouldn't post anything yeah plus ones are people that maybe the guest would hang out with and so it wasn't you know integrated into the group aren't necessarily a great thing i think personally yeah too many plus ones and then you have lots of different micro groups yes everywhere yes and you don't have people like every morning everyone came down for breakfast together yeah or went for a walk on the beach on the whatsapp group people were like who wants to go for a walk i'm up that was normally me anyone around i'm up and that that that was the the key thing but the the people that were invited there were no plus ones they were invited just happened to have the connection which i think is interesting like you know i mean i was buzzing i had my sister and my husband and my brother-in-law yeah which was great and then you know stacy had her sister yeah so on and so forth and the boys and i think there was the plus ones were related but they made sense yeah it balanced and i know that people looked at my guest list before we went and thought she is off their rocker because it does appear mad well the rules on paper the the traditional rules and you know here's the thing i'm not someone who necessarily likes to follow the rules you really no i like to break the rules um people would say don't mix celebrity with influencer don't you can't it's not possible that's the kind of traditional recipe that's the traditional recipes you're either doing an influencer or you're doing celebrity and if you get if you have a celebrity guest list your celebrity guest list traditionally won't post and it's paid right so i'm in the i'm in wrong celeb yeah no no you just made friends with the wrong pr that's the problem that is the problem um so that i didn't i i just didn't even i scratched that rule i thought no i'm gonna mix people that i think are gonna get on well that have the right dynamic and it isn't about whether they're a celebrity or a content creator it's more about building that right dynamic of people that would come together and have a great time together.

40:31I felt I'd got it right, but you're never quite sure because you can't...

40:35Rochelle: Well, we do seem like an odd bunch to gel. No, I know. On being objective, if I take myself out of it, it's like on paper, do they all know each other? I wouldn't have said she'd be friends with her or he would hang out with him. No, absolutely. But you knew who you were inviting because you knew everybody. The art of PR should always start with relationships. There's all this talk at the moment of using you know oh the software will tell you what to do or you know the ai and like all of these things great pr starts with relationships yes that's how it started when i started in pr like 20 odd years ago and that should not be forgotten so with the brand founder with a small pot of money you can get together your core group of people that you can start with went back at 11 years ago when I started at Space and K I remember who those core content creators were they were the girls that did the YouTube polls and you know like they in the early days of like content creation we still work with them now like Lily Pebbles, Anna Newton, Zoella we still do work with them and building those relationships is what we started with and And we made it bigger and bigger and bigger.

41:52And we put a lot of work into our relationships with VIPs and celebrities too. And we put a lot of work into how we work with our customers too as well. There has to be a strand for every single different type of person that you want to reach. You can't just be laser focused and be like, everything is going into content creators. Nothing else matters. Everything is going into celebrity. And it's proof of it.

42:20Rochelle: Everything matters. And we saw it on the trip. And, you know, maybe in the media coverage, you don't, the influencers don't appear. But online, there's a heavy presence and maybe we don't appear. So it's kind of a real. All bases covered. You covered all bases. And honestly, you did it. Like you did it so incredibly well. Thank you. Incredibly well. Do you know what I found really interesting when watching the content play out? As in from people that wasn't away on the trip. And it was obviously a mixed bag. And I would say 85 % was very much. Yeah. Oh my God, we want to be there. You're looking through us, have fun, girl.

42:55Rochelle: This is amazing. Yeah. But the ones that I think when there was a little bit of sort of pushback, I remember watching one video and it was sort of clipped up and a girl was saying she didn't understand when it came to the guest list how Space and K is a premium brand and you've got influencers. I think she was referencing Perry, Perry Shan, who, you know, is an ambassador for Primark. and she kind of shops at that high street level. And, you know, it's not realistic that she'd be a Primark ambassador, but also on a Space NK customer. I'm like, sorry, what? Sorry, what? For me, that blew my mind a little bit.

43:32It blows my mind, but it also gets me going in terms of... You're ready to fight, aren't you? I'm ready to fight because here's the thing. Beauty is democratic. It should be for everyone. I spend time in our stores and I see people come in who have work in all different occupations they earn different levels of money but some people love the Victoria Beckham Foundation drops more than life itself and if they want them they will find a way to get them they you know they'd they'd save their money they'd make their own lunch for at work as I do If I really want something in the store, I would save and I'd find a way to get it.

44:18But also, space in case sales products that are affordable. We have like Bioma, The Ordinary. You know, we have multiple brands that are more affordable. But what you cannot say, I think, and I do feel really passionately about it, is that I can't have a nice pair of designer shoes, but also go to Zara, to Marks and Spencers for my underwear, for, you know, whatever it may be. That isn't how, that is everything that's wrong with influencer marketing in my view, because it isn't breaking the rules. It's looking at everything in a very boxy way.

44:57Rochelle: And also the influencers that we trust the most, like for me, I mean, she's a girlfriend of mine, but I know the pull she has. When we talk about Melissa as in Melissa's wardrobe, the beauty of Melissa is that she will, yeah, is the fact that she'll go to home bargains and she's like, right, get this. But she's also like, guys, I'm getting a Birkin. Yeah, absolutely. So what my brain does is when I look at influencers like that, I'm like, this is the girl that's got a high standard. She loves the Birkin, but she's telling me this is great. This is. But that's how you grow a community. It's trust.

45:28It's trust. And there is no longer this elite luxury space where people play. You need to be, to be a viable business, you have to be open to all. You know, like you need to, especially from a beauty perspective, you can't segment people. You can't come into Space NK because we're a luxury retailer.

45:52Rochelle: And that's like saying there's Augustinus Bader in my wash bag, but there's also a CeraVe face wash. and that's kind of literally how most people look yeah i don't i think it's it's a really outdated outdated old fashion yeah i was really shocked to see that i'm like hang on so she can't come because she likes primer but also let's just be really clear with perry shan because oh please you know i'm her biggest fan that girl rather like melissa who is also one of our like we love her she's amazing cult following it's a cult following community is but you can't build a community let's not get it twisted excluded the conversion that these girlies have when it comes to perry makes things fly through the air as does melissa yeah yeah mel made me do it many a time thanks for that um you can't you can't have that view i think it's so old-fashioned and the new way and how brands need to work is that your product should be you know and there will be some luxury brands that aren't for everyone that hermes is not for everyone that's how they operate that's their dna they don't want to be for everyone we've got 89 stores in in in the uk we are for everyone we're for the person that comes in and gets her ordinary face serum we're for the person that saves up and makes her own lunch for um a couple of weeks and then buys the more luxury item that she wants why why would we want to exclude anyone it's it's it's actually very um dangerous yeah I do it's a really it's a really outdated it's really and I also think it's really inauthentic and yes kind of it goes against the messaging that you're trying to sort of convey is it is for everyone it is inclusive and we're not going to sort of not welcome somebody on board because they it just it was silly to me it was very very silly but I thought interesting that I'm like oh wow is that the critique yeah the that critique is questionable in my mind agreed agreed um if you were going to wrap you know your report now yes yeah what would you repeat and what would you refine for next time i'm just acting like next time we go yeah you are going to be coming next time um i'd repeat the guest list okay because it was amazing and i i genuinely mean that i have never done we do a lot of trips where we have friendship groups that are made for this one it truly felt like the activity we were trying to show online which was the first summer holiday of the year with friends it truly felt like that and the content played out like that so that i i would absolutely repeat maybe add in some more people the committee will need to approve okay marvin and josh marvin and josh and cory and Ricky they are the committee don't be emailing me if you just contact all four of them that would be great what would I what would I change I mean it's a different location every time so I'd certainly change what we do I wouldn't want it to feel different the thing that I'm really passionate about is doing things first and making it feel different so just because this works I guess that's another lesson that brand founders and anyone that's you know thinking about a brand trip don't look at what everyone else has done because I'm not going to be looking at what I've done this year yeah that's really interesting what's different what's new what's because you could do that because it worked yeah and it didn't just work it overperformed yeah you could just go let's more of that it's that would be the safe option that would be the safe option but I don't like the safe option we are already thinking about what we need to do for next year it takes planning these things reactive brand trips are the ones that are not gonna play out well I think yes because you don't have time to like put effort into the guest list you don't have time to think about the experience the feeling the feeling away from it yeah and it feels quite box ticking and so we we start now first oh my gosh I can't wait to hear what was I saying to someone I was saying that we were going to have a fallow year you know like glastonbury have when you take a year off but i don't think we can do that absolutely not oh my god we'll be campaigning i'll be knocking at your door babe i'm like excuse me we overperformed where are we going i'm gonna make it somewhere good i'm gonna make it somewhere good um i think to wrap up can you give us kind of two points I think for a founder or a marketer planning a trip two points to do and two points not to do that we haven't already mentioned that they could sort of take from this if they're thinking of they might be a really small brand and it might be like you know a staycation or a kind of event not necessarily a trip abroad or anything as glossy as you know what Space and k can do on a big budget yeah but you know what would be your two do's and two don'ts when you're putting a group of people together that you want to engage in a brand the first thing i would say is representation that is and it it is very wide so you need to try and be as representative as possible so the things that you would look at and it has to be ingrained within your team you need to be able to stand back and actually care rather than thinking right we've got this type of person this type of person yes not performative not performative just as as as as much as you can to like care about representing isn't because our customers are everywhere so i that's one of the things that i would really try and do to be representative because i think there's there's always talk online about you know they're so visible these brand trips it is a fine line to walk when you execute a brand trip because you almost stick your head up of a parapet and say everybody look at me and it's then that you need to feel confident that you've got everybody there absolutely that you've done enough and that you have been representative because it's really important so that's what I would say is really important to start with in terms of don't I would say don't do a brand trip just because you think brand trips are what everyone's doing because we do one a year that's and you're spacing k and we're spacing k and we work with our brand partners and maybe if a smaller brand has a retailer like partner with your retailer we do that on all different levels as well so like if a brand launches with us whether it's you know a huge brand like an amazing charlotte tilbury we've done we had a marching band walking down king's cross when we like charlotte tilbury subtle i'm not one to do it quietly um you know you've got that level and then you have brands like may lindstrom who's like an incredible woman from um california who's got this beautiful beautiful brand but for her it's about an intimate dinner where she can actually sit down and get to know people because she's the money shot now each of them deliver exactly what you need to do so it's about what's right for the brand and just because brand trips are the thing that is spoken about doesn't mean that's the right lever to pull yeah and not feeling the pressure to be like no to that because when you're a brand in your infancy and you're starting out yeah you can't expect that you're going to be okay day one launch i need to get people together it's a process yeah 11 years ago at space and k i was not doing brand trips no we've grown exponentially as a business and we have got to the point where once a year we do this big brand activation and it does need to work there's a lot of pressure to make it work to you know generate the brand awareness and you know make it commercial and you know all of those things but it's a process so I think you know start by representing representing you know you need to represent when it comes to your brand and finding like a small group for it you know a smaller brand find start with your little core group of people that you want to bring closer work really hard on the relationships and then also like outside of that you can look at who your core customers are what can you do for them like you know interact with them online I see a lot of success from smaller brand founders that are like always in the comments and yes you know that's that's as important as doing stuff with media influencers celebrities because people people invest in people absolutely and I think now we're in such an age where founders are front facing too and I think for a lot of brands it is important because you want to know who you're buying from yeah and who the brand is you know of course there are these monster corporate yeah bit the big giants but actually we want to know like you say you refer to May Lindstrom or you know Sunday Riley or you know Caroline Hirons we want to know who these people are and yeah why we should be buying from them and I think absolutely it is really really important um thank you so much I am like it was a first of all I should just say thank you for taking me on holiday because I loved it um but thanks so much for sharing all of this in detail because I think sometimes we watch these big moments play out online and everyone's like how did they do that Can we have a little bit of this?

55:24Rochelle: Or, you know, how do we pull from those really big events? And it's so, so interesting to hear from you. I mean, what you've done is just incredible. And I'm sure Space NK, the powers that be are like, what do you want at the minute, Ginny? Where do you want to go on holiday? You can have what you want. You've absolutely nailed it. And if they're not, they should be. Let me tell you. Thank you so much. Thank you. I love that.

55:56Rochelle: Don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure that you don't miss out because next time I'm going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched. If like me, you're a watcher, then please follow us on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe.