Building The Girls Bathroom | with Sophia & Cinzia on Community, Live Tours & Founding rooms

0:00It's a mission to be to one side. Six, five, four, three, two, one, zero. All engine running. We are the Edmonton. I'm so excited you're here. We're so excited. I love the set. We feel right at home, seriously. You've kindly given the best gift because these are now not going to leave the set. These are perfect. I can't believe how well they match. They are a great panto for the set. I love it, love it. That's it. Permanent fixture now. I think it's so impressive what you've both managed to build. And I kind of, I love it that it's kind of, it's that foundation of friendship. And I think it's so rare to be able to start, launch, build, grow something in that capacity.

0:46I'm always really impressed when people do it with siblings. I'm like, oh gosh, you kind of, it's always a boundary that I've always been scared to broach simply because I didn't want it to ruin like what we have. So I want to sort of go way back when. I know that you were school friends, which is just the best thing ever. When did like the idea of sort of we love being together become, this could actually be something that we could really do together? I think it was probably secondary school. Yeah. That's the age when you start thinking about like what you're going to do. Like that's when teachers start asking you like what you're thinking there, what subjects you're going to take, what uni you're going to go to.

1:25We hated that question. Like, we had no idea. Like, we didn't want to go uni. Yeah, we were always the girls in the class who, like, never had an answer. We were like, I don't know. It was always me. Like, I don't know what to do. I was like, well, I'm doing art A-level. Like, I'll just have to be an artist then. Like, what am I going to have to do? Like, there was no other option, really. There was no other option. Well, I don't even like art. What am I going to do? I was like, I don't know. And then she'd be like, just take art and I'll do it for you. Like, just take it so we can be together.

1:48Let's just hang. and I was like I'm really bad at all I was like please do German so we can like be in the German class together so like friendship forward almost like whatever it takes to be able to hang out with one another and I think even back then we were like right whatever we do like I don't really know where it came from but we always just knew we have to do something together like I don't know what it is but we have to find something that we can do together like whether we're just going to go to the same uni do the same course get the same job or like start a business together like we just have to do it together so I remember we would like like make magazines.

2:20I remember there was one lunch. Sophia got like a Mac. You got a Mac really early on. Yeah. My granddad gave me this little laptop on the side. She'd be like, right, I could do anything on this. What should we do? I'm a boss. I was like, well, let's. I'm going to start our business from our bedroom. I'm like 14 years old. I remember one lunch, we had this piece of paper and we were like, let's just have a shop. Like, let's just draw it. We're going to do that. We'll put some clothes here, put some clothes here. Like, I don't really know why we had all these ideas, but. But so then we were like, okay, well, let's actually like start a blog.

2:49Like this is something we could actually start. Yeah, I think that was when we got to like 15, 16. We were like. We really admired all the bloggers. Like we loved Megan. She was our icon, especially back then, like the blog. The blonde salad, like that blog. Oh my God, the blonde salad. Yeah, we would like ride or die for that blog. And we would sit and read all the blogs. We're like, well, we've got to be bloggers. Bloggers were the coolest, still are coolest girls in the world. Coolest girls in the world. So what did you, so you're like, okay, let's start a blog. and how did you realize at that point that it's something that you could monetize or was it like let's just do it and have fun i think we did know that girls were earning money from it yeah but obviously we never thought like oh that's that's gonna be us yeah it was very much like this is a hobby let's do it at the weekends let's buy these outfits take these pictures like it was just exciting just to do it yeah take pictures of us we there was a white wall like around the corner from my house we're like well that's a white wall that's perfect the only white wall in Nottingham I fear like and it was around the corner we'll be like Lydia come on like you're on duty today we've got the white wall we've got the white wall it's like it's not raining like let's go we're gonna do our blog post and then we get and we're like what we're gonna call it leather and studs like we had like leather like jackets or whatever and then we'd write this little paragraph about the outfits and we loved the blog days the blog days was great and what was that like because obviously this is like coming out of school right are you still we this was like our sixth form gig yeah yeah so how was that received I always wonder this I remember talking to Matilda Jurf about this and she was like everyone thought I was the biggest geek like I'd be so embarrassed because I'd love it and I'd be doing it at the weekend and I'd get back into school and they'd be like oh she thinks she's a blogger and she was like I really did think I was one and I'm like well you were and you still are a really successful one but it was like it was that kind of level of she felt a bit embarrassed about it yeah we were really scared we were terrified we were like well we'll keep this a secret like no one will find out like we'll just keep we'll just post on the side we'll keep going school no one's gonna find out of course like well we the first day we we wanted to call it like Sophia and Chintzy and we were like no everyone's gonna find it yeah we're gonna call it the lifestyle blog literally the like we'd done our first blog post and then everyone had found it we're like oh no this is a nightmare like this is a nightmare everyone's chit-chatting about we're like oh my god like we just this needs to be over and what was the feeling almost a little bit like who do they think they are what are they like what was i just don't think people got it it was just like what like what are you doing and you're taking pictures like you think you're what like you're taking pictures of yourself like and it was like back in the day when like weird energy yeah everyone had an instagram account yes yeah it was still very much like growing and it was like I don't get it like what are you going to do on there like why are you taking pictures of yourself like who do you think you are sort of thing we were like I'm so embarrassed yeah it wasn't it wasn't celebrated at school yeah let's put it like that but we kept each other going I was like Sophia like we're cool yeah like we're doing a cool thing let's keep going let's you know block out the noise if we didn't have each other I think we would have shut the door that's actually so interesting yeah you're so right yeah I could see that because like you say at that point it's really fresh it's really new and you need that person that gets it alongside you right you obviously notice that people around you could see and i suppose they're talking and there's a little bit of noise that you're kind of blocking out but how quickly was it where you saw that this is actually people are engaging with this beyond kind of the sixth form crowd yeah we do remember we made some like blogger friends we did didn't we like we there was this other duo who were in america and they inez and they had a blog like doing similar stuff to us and like probably like a similar similar size so we made like other little blogger friends and that really kept us going and then we did have some people being like oh i love your blog like please start a youtube channel yeah and that was we loved that that was a real confidence boost yeah it was like getting that validation yeah this is really good particularly from your peers and stuff and people are doing similar things and understand the space and actually it resonates with them yeah where kind of did that transition because obviously it starts as most when I talk to sort of influencers or you know creators it's pretty much always started out in that blog space because that was the offering at the time how did it then transition for you guys like when did you go okay now we're going to be on to the next thing and the next what explain the kind of timeline of of how that went so we were finishing sixth form both decided like our parents allowed us to have a gap year we both had part-time jobs and i think at the end of sixth one we were like look we're doing a bit of youtube you know we're doing mute to videos because we didn't want to speak we were too scared to say no way well we thought if we spoke we would give people at school more ammunition like to pick at it which is so ironic because then you go on to host a podcast i love this i love this i know And our whole thing is speaking now.

7:44I love that. We just did like mute videos of us like spinning around in these outfits. I would like chop them and edit them together. And then we were getting ready for prom. So leaving sixth form, we were like, right, this is going to be our first talking video on YouTube. Like, let's do this. Yeah. So that then our gap year, we basically, that was the time for us to like give our YouTube channel a go. Like we had a little bit of a following on the blog. I think we maybe had like 10 ,000 people on the blog. Like it was something. but 10 000 engaged people right yeah and then that kind of moved to youtube we would put the youtube videos on the blog as well so the youtube initially was more to fuel the blog yeah but then yeah the youtube just kind of naturally grew i mean we were doing like three videos a week we were hammering as soon as we left school we got really confident with it because we were like it's fine it's just us two like we don't have to see these people we don't have to walk in on monday and like hear any chit chat like we just let them watch like his views like keep watching sort of thing so um yeah that just was the whole of our gap year and then I think by the end of the gap year we had like a hundred thousand subscribers on YouTube so we and we were looking at getting a manager we were getting a couple brand deals so then we were like right I don't think we're gonna have to go to uni yeah let's just keep let's just keep going and at what point did you was it really converting into like money and for you to be able to say okay this is this isn't a passion project now first of all people are really listening to us and secondly this is you know this is a really good income our first brand deal was with uh ryman stationery they just like oh this is that's the not what i had on my yeah yeah yeah like do a back to school thing so they think that was like 600 pounds for a youtube video and like we still have our part-time jobs earning like three pound 50 an hour so for us to get 600 pounds 300 each for one video we're like i'm making my whole monthly yeah it was insane we couldn't believe it we could not believe so we just had to do a little vlog like go into rhyming and buy some stationery yeah and like haul it or something yeah and then we were also on like the shop style links yeah from the blogging days okay so we brought that over to youtube we were doing hauls that was like the era of like all the hauls like the plt boohoo hauls yeah linking everything our audience really loved them at the time yeah and that was our main like income for a while was just like shop style commission right yeah which is i mean It is so, so incredible.

10:07Like you say that you're not, you get these followers that you sort of gain from the blog. And I suppose we never really know who's on the other side of it, right? You're like, okay, I'm doing this stuff and people are following, but they're listening because you can see that return of investment when you're getting these links and it's actually working and you can monetize from that. At what point does it evolve to you using your voices and stepping out of that? We're going to do these mute videos. and do the podcast and now talk for a living yeah we were so nervous to do that first get ready with us yeah we were i can't even watch it back i would please don't watch it you know we're gonna clip it now do not clip it no please why did we decide to do a get ready because people were doing get ready with but i remember at the time and it obviously sounds silly now but i remember at the time bearing in mind this was 10 years ago we there was there wasn't i say any there obviously was but there wasn't many best friend youtube channels yes it was girls on their own guys on their own husbands and wives like families but there really wasn't many if any we didn't know of any at the time no best friend uk youtube channels i can't really think of any and it would be like get ready with me it wasn't get ready with us yeah yeah so yeah i think we just really started leaning into that like doing all these get readies before we were having so much fun like it was our era of like partying like we were drinking for the first time we had all these new friends from our jobs yeah we really came into we were just drinking so like we were getting ready yeah twice a week we'll go now like times a week yeah but the kind of like simplicity of it is genius because of course like we all know right particularly when you're in that era I mean I miss that era so much honestly that was the time when they're kind of getting ready to go out is the best time you'll kind of get out and you'll be really disappointed in the night but you're like we had so much more fun with our drinks and our kind of doing our glam right and that kind there's that real relate you know that relatability and the fact that you we we all know getting ready with your best friend is the best part of anyone's night do you think it was that that really connected I do think it was our friendship yeah because we started to get a lot of messages from people like oh I wish I had a best friend or I don't have a close friend right now like I need someone to talk to like can you give me any advice like i do think our friendship is what connected us with a lot of people because i think they felt and hopefully still do like when they watch our videos like a facetime like you're just here with us yeah we had so much fun in those videos we do like we would film when we got back from a night out as well when we were like absolutely we were a night out a night out would be so productive like we would do a get ready with us right we would do a pre-drink with us yes we would sit at my my mum and dad's kitchen island yeah we would and drink the night out like take the camera like to the club and like vlog the night out and then we would film like an aftermath when we got home so that was four videos they're in one night yeah these are the best memories we need to have a night to look back on right yeah yeah but i wish i had all of that on film that's amazing i think we've deleted some of them some of them i like we were advised to take some of them yeah we're like oh so at this point have you got management no no not even in the first gap year when we were doing that i think at the end of the year that's when we kind of got approached by management and it was like gleam back in the day and i remember we got an email from lucy leverage yeah shout out and she was like we want you to come to the office and we're like oh my god it's clean like it's lucy because She was like the manager of like Zoella and Joe Song.

13:44And we were telling to our mums like, we've made it. Well, like we're going to London. Like we're going to London. Like we're out here. Like, do you know who Lucy Loveridge is? He's not in. We're out here. We're out. So tell me, did you feel, did it, was it sort of getting to a point where you needed guidance? Because I suppose when you're doing this yourself and you're learning it, like you say, you get this thing coming from Ryman's. It's the first thing. And I suppose they would suggest the fee that they're happy to pay for. Yeah. You know, the haul, et cetera. did you feel like you needed to sort of have that guidance because i suppose you don't know if you're asking for too much selling yourself too short like you kind of need a bit of a steer on yeah who else is performing in that space and what they're earning and how that looks yeah we had no idea i mean we had no idea no we were just like yeah we'll take that yeah absolutely one it was like just free clothes we're like love it that was our second brand deal that was the best brand deal ever we were like we just want the night out dresses we go out yeah we'll do our payment i think they probably paid us like 500 pounds something like that we'll honestly save it we'll just take the dress yeah just give us more dresses yeah this is fine um but yeah we had no idea about like contracts or negotiating or anything usage all of the kind of technicalities behind it yeah but that was some good guidance that we got when we went into gleam because we didn't actually even sign with them no lucy just wanted us in to like make sure we didn't sign anything dodgy she yeah she was like some advice it was yeah really lovely she gave us some really good advice and then she just let us go off on our way what was her like main pointer of advice like what was she was there was something that she was like you're doing this don't or you should be thinking about this it was more just like you're on your way up sort of thing don't sign anything yeah like don't get into any like get a lawyer to look over anything like some agencies they might offer you a really bad contract they might take more of a commission they say they're going to take like she was just very like keep doing what you're doing don't she literally said don't sign anything you're like okay let's say but it's such good advice because yeah people can promise you the world and it all sounds very exciting and you know i've been there back in the day where it's like i'd love to be a pop star i'll sign my life away because you kind of just feel like you've been given such an incredible opportunity and like you say when you've got a job that you're on minimum wage you're like this is great I'm slashing it remember when we met that guy in Wagamama's and he was like I can make you seven figures or something and we were like 19 you're like fabulous I thought you are really trying to take advantage of some naive girls we did know back then oh did you feel it yeah we were like you're weird he was really strange and he was trying to like he was like money focused like we're gonna make you all this money we're like you're trying to shit and I was like why are you taking this Wagamama yeah actually why are we not in Nobu yeah no Nobu in Notts yeah that's true he did come all the way to Nottingham yeah he did but we didn't like his vibe we felt bad energy from him we were like okay we're not gonna go with him that's interesting because it's quite an offer that yeah we knew a lot of influencers though who were signed to his agency it was a big it's a really big agency he was so we were like oh well this person's like with him and this person but we didn't like his vibe he was yeah he wasn't right sometimes you really have to lead I'm that person that will lean into that energy or that vibe where I'm like yes yes but I can't imagine us working together like I can't see how that would gel yeah we've always been like that we know who we like it's good like we've got a good sounding board yes yeah like we're always on the same wavelength and we were always like we can just do ourselves like yeah we were quite skeptical of like managers and agencies because we were like we don't we don't really need it like we could just try and change too particularly when you've got such a relationship you've got always protect that first yeah yeah because you could it's it's very tricky when you bring a sort of third party in and they don't maybe know how close you girls are and like you kind of that has to come first and that's a really important to you as we spoke about at the start like not wanting to ever get in the way of that but equally that's what's working is you girls together and it's that's kind of a scary thing yeah we were quite wary we were wary because we were like well with like our energy is great we're having so much fun if we bring you in like what are you gonna like what does this do yeah like we just wanted to have fun yeah because we were still like 1920 yeah because that's an easy thing to get swept up in it's good that you had that ability because we had each other like if you were doing it on your own i think you would be like oh my god okay like you've got no one really to ask yes but we would always like sit in my car like talk things through for hours like get on facetime like i remember we would like go our separate ways and then just sit on facetime all night and our mums would be like what have you two got to talk about yeah like do you not just sit on facetime in silence like this is just what we do like so just background noise so tell me when when the podcast began did you have management at that point yes yes yes so we started doing kind of going back to like the youtube channel and people asking us for advice we would speak to so many people on snapchat and we would get all these messages from girls on snapchat and boys just being like i've not got a best friend like i need someone to talk to like here's my problem and we would just be like replying to everyone on snapchat yeah and then i remember we were like oh this could be a good youtube series for us like boy talk girl talk like let's answer these dilemmas make them a youtube video and because we were doing three videos a week like we needed like youtube ideas so it seemed really good and then it was our manager luke at the time who was like you guys could make this a podcast you know he was like do you know what a podcast is we're like oh we know the receipts like that was like the only podcast that we knew of yes and we were like okay let's think about this and luke really helped us so we signed with margavine which was joe and casper's agency that they'd set up and we really trusted them it was we're really glad that we waited out and signed with them yes all the stars aligned in that moment we were their first signing yeah so special the agency was just like us two and then it was really lovely it felt like a real family and like it was really good it was the perfect place for us to begin yeah and did they help you sort of format the idea of the podcast or was that literally like we just want to do what we do and we want to have this feel really inclusive and we want it to be us i think we already had like the girl talk boy talk format so like okay well let's because people were commenting saying like you this should be a podcast and we were like oh okay and then that's when luke was like yes actually it should be a podcast yeah so that was kind of our format yeah we already had the format down it was just the name we were like okay what the hell are we gonna call this so tell me how how did that come about shout out allison shout out allison no she's a where is she we had this we were in this meeting room me chintz luke amy and we were like right what we're gonna call this what we're gonna call this and we were like bffs and boys like skill chat like chatting like and then um allison literally just like floated her head in and we were like oh we're thinking of a name for our podcast like thinking about like girl chat blah blah and she was like oh she's american she's oh you mean like what you talk about in like the girl's bathroom and we were like oh my god she literally said it and then she was like we were like and then she just like left and we were like and then we were typing in and we were like oh it doesn't exist and then luke was like getting the trademark straight away like getting all the domains straight away such a good feeling when we were like we were like it was insane yeah yeah do you know what's so interesting is that when i was naming this um that was um a real steer from callum who's on my team and he was like ladies who launch and then we were like such a good play on words because it's ladies who lunch and then we've got space and we're launching and we got so excited and it kind of sort of started snowballing I remember we put it out sort of get some feedback and a lot of people were like yeah but you're never going to be able to have a man on and I'm like so it's kind of the point yeah it's kind of the point exactly but there was a lot of feedback to be like it's kind of you're going to miss out on a real listener and you girls actually gave me the real confidence to be like looking at I'm like yeah but no this I think if you're you've got such a clear concept yes I'm like that's actually for me what works I can't invest it I know what girls bathroom is going to be I know what ladies you know you know I think sometimes the clearer the concept it's less gray yes and you kind of not feel like it's something that everybody could be a part of and I think that's the beauty of it yeah I think you know like sometimes you look you're like it could have been boys and girls actually girls bar from i know what i'm getting instantly in the title and it and it plays in so well to your get ready with and everything else that was going on so when when did you actually first launch the podcast seven years ago 2019 yeah i want to say seven years yeah 2019 so you launched 2019 we all know what happened in 2020 yeah yes the wills fell off the world and we were all indoors yeah did you see a real spike in the podcast over lockdown because we find with that sort of period of time it can either like it made a lot of businesses fall to the floor but it also made a lot of businesses and a lot of projects really sort of yeah spike because of the nature of what was going on how did that time look for you we talked about this yesterday actually because we used to just do seasons so like we we're doing three or four seasons so yeah we do like however many episodes maybe 10 and then like have a break but like okay we're going away for like three weeks like we'll see you like in the next season that's what i thought i was gonna do when i started this and then they were like no always on i'm like what yeah yeah i think that was the thing to like do seasons yeah and our mindset was like it's the same format every week are people gonna get bored like we need to build up we were real nervous about that and then go away and then build up the hype again like we were worried that people would get bored of it basically and then it wasn't until covid i think we were on season four yeah where people were like oh please keep the podcast going like please keep it going like don't don't stop we've got familiarity yeah and then we figured out how to do it from home and we were like all right let's just do it every week and then it just kind of became the norm then to do it every single week and that's when we really noticed like it really gained momentum and we started to climb in numbers and we got more listens and then we were like oh wow like actually i think people who listen to podcasts are such creatures of hell yes like you want your podcast every week like same time on your commute doing in your car doing your washing like whatever it is and yeah I think that was a big learning curve for us like wow actually do it every single week it makes such a difference rather than going and coming and going and yeah and do you by sort of nature of what the podcast is do you have to tape it in real time so do you have do you literally tape every week or do you do it in like blocks pretty much we're like by the week we're trying to get yesterday for like next Wednesday.

24:21We're trying to get better at like getting some more in the bank. But yeah, we're very just like last minute. When we're like going on holiday or something, it'd be like, okay, let's get, we've got to do like four this week. But for the most part, we're like, let's just go in on a Wednesday for the next Wednesday. Like we like it being more real time. But it's quite nice. And I think the nature of kind of what you're speaking on and how it's very, kind of needs to feel very current, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Because we're always talking about like what we're watching and it's going to be old news as well as time as comes out yeah when when did you realize that you weren't sort of just giving advice to people that you're actually shaping how people think like I think there's such a real difference isn't there to people wanting your opinion or wanting advice from you but you're actually sort of really leading which I think is so so impressive I don't know if we have ever thought we like we don't realize the impact that we we have sometimes I think we still like We sit down.

25:18We don't really think anyone listens. Yeah, we sit down on a sofa and we chat. And we're like, all right, see you next week, guys. Like, we'll back in here to recording whenever. And who's the guys? And we don't think about it. We don't know who you are. Yeah, it's until, like, we meet people. And, like, they'll say, oh, my God, we've been listening for however long. Like, you helped me through this breakup or this friendship breakdown. We're like, oh, my God, wow. You're listening. You're listening. I can't believe it. Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe it. And we, I think a real sign of that and the connection to people is when you take it on the road and you actually do the kind of podcast in person.

25:50And I'm always like, I've seen like your announcements before, like how impressive they are. And like, it becomes like a whole ad campaign. I love it. So, so good. Was that a moment for you, the first day that you go on tour and you're like, gosh, this is who listens. That we're actually sort of face to face with our audience now. Yeah, the tours definitely give us a real shock of like, oh my God. And like when the tickets go on sale. They've all chosen an outfit. They've all traveled here. everyone's on theme we're like oh my gosh yeah yeah and like you're watching your like story mentions that day and people are on planes and you're like oh my god people are on trains gotta be a good show tonight because this girl's just flown in from spain this is scary we had that with the live that i was like i'm really now nervous i know i had that i don't know if you girls ever had this but on our we did our first one in january and i was so like i was so overwhelmed because I just, I always worry that people aren't going to show up for things.

26:46And the team will actually, you've not like invited them to a party that they might not show. Like they've bought a ticket to this. I think I was just so overwhelmed that people were actually sat down and like engaged. And like you say, seeing like someone's getting a flight, someone's on a train. I'm like, it's better for me. I know. That's like us. The very first one we ever did before, it was before COVID. Shout out Luke again, our old manager. He was like, you should do a live show. We're like Luke, like, I don't think we're capable of that. like an audience like no he was like look let's do it like in nottingham hometown vibes and like the local theater yeah and we were so like i've never felt nerves like i remember crying like in the morning like i can't do this yeah and then we were on the phone like we should never say yesterday we could never do this yeah i was like let's just get the worst idea like luke what have you done to us yeah we're like just get through the day tomorrow will be over we'll never I have to do this again.

27:39Yeah. I mean, we went out there. We had a great time. Did you really love it? Were you like, okay, forget it. We were really nervous. It was weird. But I think we did realize quite quickly, like, oh, the audience is actually rooting for us. Like, they're on our side. They don't want you to do shit. Yeah, like, they're happy to be here. We've not got to, like, win them over as such. Like, they have actually bought a ticket. Because, like, in my mind, I'm thinking everyone's sat there like, oh, this is going to be shit. Like, and it's like. Well, it's that responsibility, isn't it, when people are spending their hard-earned money?

28:08on you know something that you're like i could really balls this up yeah yeah it's all on us to perform we like didn't want a script we didn't want to rehearse we're like no it'll freak us out but then we were regretting that we're like oh shit like maybe we should have rehearsed but then what are we going to rehearse like this is what we do yeah freestyle and then but really well yeah but i suppose it must have become instantly obvious that like you say they're and view and it's connecting and yeah what we do we bring in what we do to the live space which is so so exciting I want to talk about sort of that level of trust that you have because I think I think that's a real time that you notice it like you say when people are spending their money on a ticket but that is really sort of translated for you again turning or like getting that audience to follow you from one capacity to another so when I talk about product now and that's another sort of different level of trust so yeah when what made you feel like your community were ready for something from you both that was beyond the content that you were serving them I remember the first ever product we did was some like girls bathroom merch yeah in covid or just after covid and like we'd just gone through breakups was that our first no our first was like the tennis stuff yeah but yeah we were like it was like hoodies crewnecks and we we would design them on my ipad we had so much fun like we had slogans yeah after the breakup it was the his loss collection and the girls went crazy for it we're like oh you guys like this not the revenge hoodie yeah we're like we did all these colorways like blue brown yeah everything and then it would always make me laugh when like the pregnant girls in like happy relationship like are going to tesco like here's the last yeah yeah i love that so you guys really like the hoodie my brother like still wears it like he's got it all yeah i love that when we're talking about sort of rooms did that give you selling those merch of people sort of buying what you're selling did that give you sort of a level of confidence to know that it would land i think it definitely gave us like a taste for like producing something creating something putting it out there having an audience watching people buy yeah but I think with rooms specifically I think we were you know we've been online for 10 years and I think we with rooms it's really looking ahead to the next 10 years and we're like right we're 27 28 now like what do we want to do looking forward like what's what's the next kind of chapter for us and yeah having a brand has always been something that we have wanted and kind of dreamed about we did try different things like just before like during covid we tried to do like a clothing brand we thought about doing beauty we kind of got scared off the idea as a whole for a while because we were like oh is this just like a money pit like is this just a bad idea sometimes it is a money pit right and i think it's hard to know what is gonna land and what you take the risk on yeah yeah but then when rooms really started to flesh out and we found the right team and it was all kind of like it did feel like the stars were aligning yeah and then we were like oh my god okay like I think the time is now like I think we're gonna do this and then it was even like a week before launch we were like oh my god are we gonna do it like we couldn't believe it is it happening like we've been working on it for like two years and we were like god like do we do it like do we press the button sort of thing um but yeah it just felt like the right time it was definitely and ever since like we got that first like shop style check yes we have been like quite smart with our money like we've had like a joint bank account we were always saving we're like well let's save this money because one day we'll do something big with it and we always knew when we're going to start a business we wanted to fund it ourselves yeah and we always knew yeah we wanted to put our own money in so it was just meant to be because we did try because we loved house of cb and we were like well let's do like corsets let's be like connor walker and do dresses yeah but that didn't work out and for the best because rooms really is like an evolution of us it's it it's everything that we are now and it It feels really lifestyle.

32:08Yeah. And I think that's what's nice because as women, you don't just love beauty. You don't just love fashion. You don't just love interior. Like it's kind of, you don't want to pigeonhole that. And I think that's what you've managed to execute really well is it feels very lifestyle. It's a big umbrella. We're having so much fun with like all the different products we can do because it is like the opportunities are endless. Like we're doing a bikini for summer and it's like we're doing a bikini. I know, we're doing a beach bag. but because you haven't given yourself a ceiling yeah it's kind of that's that's kind of a really smart way to start right what was the first sort of port of call that you made when you're like okay this is what we want it to be we wanted to be able to have fun we it wants to be an extension of who we are what was what kind of comes easy to both of you and is it different like is it like creativity first is it the sort of structure of the business like how how does that look and how did it play out for us i think like the product side is where we really thrive like the colors the shapes like fabrics imagery styling the shoots like we love like fonts fonts and the website we really enjoyed designing as well that was really fun like getting all the inspo we love a pinterest board as well oh me too pinterest is i just love scrolling on pinterest i think it's so calm on the mind as well out there it is that is a far better scroll than instagram it is and i need to get better at just like opening pinterest because it's so like you feel more calm yes yes absolutely it's not too noisy it's just and it's definitely catered to you yeah nothing interrupts that algorithm yeah whereas on the algorithm is so good it's so good because you've said it it's incredible instagram little things can sneak in yeah i'm like what's that on instagram but pinterest it's like yes yes yes keep it here yeah so so so creativity is your drive right yes that when it In terms of like setting up the actual sort of structure of a business, did you have to get help on that?

34:04Did you, is that something that feels like a strong suit for me? That was for me what I had to really learn overnight and really become tapped into and be a sponge to great people around me to know where I was. For me, I'm like, I know I can build a brand. I know I'm creative. I know how to PR something. I know how to market something. but the kind of the budgets and the logistics is something that I've now have to know, unfortunately. It's a whole different skill set. But it isn't something that comes easy to me. It is. It doesn't come natural to me. It doesn't come natural to me either. It's a whole different world.

34:36But we're trying our best. We're doing as we go. We have to because it's yours. Yeah. We've got an amazing team and they are like also really, like we can ask them anything. They're so knowledgeable. They know everything. And they really want to like teach us as well. And we just like soak up everything they say and we're like, okay, let's go over that again. like blah blah but one thing we really wanted was an all-female team incredible so that was what we were most passionate about we have to find the right women like who's it going to be who gets the vision because that's where we kind of slipped up before when we were trying to do the clothing brand like we were with the wrong people it wasn't a right fit there was men there they didn't get it it was we were like it's these men like we actually just need all women who literally think like purple is pink yeah it's not it's not no it's tricky yeah and i think also just being around people who genuinely believe in you and like you make the call like this is your thing yeah yeah we trust you like what you think yeah like tell us that's really valuable and not feel like because in in past instances we've had sort of like men try and like take over i'm like no no we've got it from here like we know what to do we know and we'd be like no no that's not right like stop we don't like and like deep down we would know like oh no we need to stand up for ourselves in this moment like this is our thing but we didn't have the confidence then to do so that's like growing isn't it because I look back on certain things that I've accepted and probably not sort of had boundaries on and actually I'm like it's I look back I'm like what was I doing but actually it does it's that growth isn't it and trusting yourself and I think yeah age is a wonderful thing too because that always helps isn't it the more yes the more experience you have under your belt but it's it's trust in your own gut too and knowing that yes I've not sort of launched a business before but actually I do know this this is yeah you know there's a reason this hasn't been launched before is because I've not done it yet but I know what I want and I know how that want how I want that to look yeah but there's a your is a bit of a sort of inner conflict because you you sort of think to yourself at certain stages I should trust this person because they've done it before or they've got more experience in this space and they're older than me so you sort of you don't listen to your own voice because you should on paper you should in theory go with them but actually they're the moments for me that they haven't worked out yeah yeah actually i should have listened to myself and backed myself that's exactly what we had to learn like the past five years yeah it's just backing ourselves we have each other like we do know best yes but that's again why it's great that we've got each other to be a sounding board because it's like i'm not going crazy like that's not right surely and then we'd almost like hype each other up like yeah let's go and say this you do talking yeah i'm here though it's like nodding i'm like yeah i'm signing that so you launched last november yes was there anything that sort of took you by surprise when you launched because you keep this kind of baby don't you under wraps for a bit and it's the thing that you're working on and then it's kind of everyone's child and everyone gets access to it and then you're like okay it's out into the world now please love it yeah please you know please be on the same page as me was there anything that surprised you or that you wasn't prepared for at that moment of launch we learned so much on launch yeah we did like um faults in products shipping like day before launch our facility got broken into we almost yeah we almost got all our products like robbed yeah we almost didn't have a like seriously all of our products were taken from the warehouse yeah they were on a van they were on a lorry like literally leaving the warehouse they almost took a whole thing everything that we paid for like what would we have done i don't even know what we wouldn't have been able to launch literally the night before they would have luckily they didn't get away yeah the police came and it was fine and we got all of our stock back but that was literally like yeah the evening before like two o 'clock in the morning and we were launching at 9 10 a.m so thank god that was like our wake-up calls but like okay like things are gonna go wrong and like we need to be able to deal with this there's no wake-up call like that the eve before launch yeah truly so we were like on edge weren't we but launch went well people bought the stuff yeah then when people were receiving like the dressing gown and wearing it and the candle and smelling it yes that was really surreal surprised at like how much almost like discourse there was online about like the launch and we were like oh my god we've not even put any products out yet yeah and already people are trying to like say what they maybe don't like yeah and that was a bit like oh just give us a sec like wait till you get it like yeah promise you're gonna love it like it's gonna be great do you think that's the world that we live in now it's like people have almost got like like you say opinion before anything actually landed which of course they're entitled to and that's what makes things a success as well as sometimes you know not the noise that you might want on us you know you might have missed the mark on something or you but but a business in its infancy it's kind of impossible for that not to be the case but that is quite when people have an opinion so early on and you're like can you just get it yeah like it's quite hard to for me I've always found separate the emotion from business when it's something that feels like your baby do you experience that at all yeah but I think when we saw people actually receiving the products and then they were being like so positive and just so like complimentary that made us so proud it did and we were like oh my god like they love it like our customers love it and that's what's important like we're not this isn't for every single person on the planet get it get it yeah as long as our customer loves it like we've had you know this is our vision we've brought it to life we really believe in it people are connecting with it that was a huge like and then on the back moment and then it was it gave us encouragement We were seeing videos of like the viral candle.

40:14We were like, oh, really paid in our favor. Like the viral candle. The viral dressing gown. We were like, perfect. We'll take that. Exactly. Everyone wants a viral moment. So the first drop does incredibly well. Drop to the Spring Pantry then came in March that saw the vase sell out in one minute. I know. One minute. Our vase would look gorgeous actually. Yeah, because this is why I love this coffee table, the green and the pink. Okay, well, bring a vase. yeah bring a vase i mean i've got three cups i'm very happy the vase was we we felt so strongly about the vase we did we thought it was we'd never seen like a jelly vase before like we love the color green obviously we love matcha like my flat is very colorful so is sophia's house and our team were the ones who were like oh like are you sure like about the shape of that like people gonna like it like i'm not sure like it's gonna sell as well as you guys think we're like no we really back it like we think it's the coolest thing we've ever seen like we have to do this jelly that's quite a nerve-wracking position like if we go back to the conversation we had before when your team were like i don't know girls and you're like okay we're gonna sort of yeah we were like we're gonna die on this hill really yeah i was like you love the vase right yeah i love the vase we had one sample we were fighting over i was like if we love it that much they're like it's going from her house to my house back to her i was like we need i need two of these like we need this vase just those moments that show you that nobody knows what you're doing better than you and like from that creative standpoint and knowing that this is we're building the brand that we would want and that's and we know that how that connects yeah so I mean selling that in one minute they couldn't you couldn't know we had a really lovely moment with fave flowers as well so like the first 50 orders got like a free bouquet of flowers she's amazing and it was just a lovely moment it was really special we love so what does that do behind the scenes because we all know a sellout moment is great and very exciting but when it comes to sort of logistics was that a relief for you because of the pressure on it having to go right or was it like immediate chaos or a bit of regret that actually we should have bought double yeah it is almost like okay what do we do now is it pre-order like do people want to pre-order it now yes okay let's try and do a it's an amazing feeling when you get a sellout yeah very quickly but it also is like oh we just haven't quite got our quantities right yet because like really like we want these products to live on the website for like months we want them to be shoppable we don't really want them to sell out any day like this has to be a shoppable website like we should have ordered more and obviously everything's so long with like deliveries and spraying them and all of this it's like we're gonna have to wait like months to get more vases and it's like oh no we should have ordered more but that is the beauty of just like the journey that we're on like we're learning so much about our customers and what people want with every single drop and we're getting a bit more confidence to be like okay i think we could get some more units of that let's invest a bit more in that let's pull back on that like it is just trial and error isn't it and we're just seeing what people kind of gravitate towards.

43:06And I think this is what's so interesting about the strategy of like, it's a quite a new school way of working, isn't it? When drops are such a thing, like normally, like you say, you'd buy in stock and it would kind of live and you'd be able to shop it. But I do think there's that real excitement when there's a drop and you know that there's a limited period of time. And I spoke to Amy Smell of Odd Muse and her whole thing, her whole strategy was built out of pre-orders and dropping these dresses and doing a pre-order. And that's what sort of enabled her to keep the cash flow at the right place because, you know, they would pre-order them and then they would make them and then that would sell out and so on and so forth.

43:46And then that was actually the strategy that helped her grow. And I think it is so interesting and there is that level of excitement, but it's always that thing that sort of there's a fine line, isn't it, between everyone being excited and the fear of missing out to actually them being annoyed because they can't get it. yes and it's like tip-toeing to make it like okay because we're like actually we're not going to be able to get that in stock for another six months people then lose interest yeah so it's kind of it's a fine line and it's a bit of a juggle to make sure that's right i rarely pre-order something so i'm like well no they're not going to want to pre-order and wait six weeks for it but they do like people do like to do that and i was just going to say like i think we're still at the point now like we're so early on where every drop is so important because it's like if this doesn't sell well okay well we're looking ahead now to christmas like we can't afford to make x y and z so we're gonna have to take that off and replace it with something else like it really is pressure on each item selling well because the impact it has you know we need our cash flow to keep going and it becomes hard to forecast isn't it yeah look at the rest of the year and you're like what have we got to play with the christmas drop we don't know yet because we're not sure if this is gonna sell keep you on your toes it does it keeps you on your toes what is it like now working as co-founders because I feel like you've sort of lived out a lot of jobs together and you're still best friends which is incredible has the dynamic changed between you both like do you sort of do you pick up something that you might drop and vice versa because it it's when you have a business I suppose it's a different set up all together again because it's not just coming in and hosting together and having a conversation it's like okay I've got to do this I've got to pick up this do you split everything quite evenly between the pair of you yeah i think we both kind of like to do everything yeah in a way yeah we'll always check in with each other on like something we like see each other every single day yeah we're chatting all day every always on facetime always on our calls yeah whatsapping constantly yeah however many whatsapp groups we've got like it's like 20 groups it's crazy but i don't think it's felt like a huge transition i think like even like our whole career like thus far it's all it's been very slow and steady yes like this is something that has been like you know the whole a lot has been like over a 10 year period it's been it's not like we woke up one day and we were making money together we were sharing a bank account and doing this and doing that and it's it's it's been very gradual so i just it kind of feels like it's always been this way it's just a natural progression like for 10 years we've been earning money and kind of navigating that yeah so it didn't feel like a big oh my god now we're about a big jump yeah because that's what can happen kind of you'll be like oh I'm gonna go into business with my friend now and it's like god now we're not friends we work together but like if you've had that slowly like it's always kind of been our relationship like it's it is the norm since we were teenagers it's been the norm and I suppose it's probably been your relationship longer now than it hasn't if you think about yeah almost honestly like 50-50 yeah oh that's crazy I'm not sure about that but do you know what I mean if you started doing it in this space so young yeah your school years are quite minimal really when you think of like the bigger picture and what you then do afterwards so yeah we never thought about that it's quite special it's quite honestly i'm like i'm always so impressed as i say when when you've got such a close dynamic and it can beautifully sort of evolve into something that you get to share those highs together like you'd who else would you want to share it with like we always say like couldn't do this on our own like how on earth is that possible we always say like thank god we're not doing this one all right because like yeah any event we go to anything like podcast got each other we've got each other yeah it's so nice and it's such a lucky i love it when like i occasionally work with marvin because i'm like oh it's so nice yeah together like it just changes the whole dynamic for me so i'm like i love that for you you get that every day it's so so incredible what's what does the future look like for rooms i mean you teased on a bikini for the summer which is I mean I can't wait to see what looks like that what does the future look like what's the kind of if we were to do this again and sit down in a couple of years what would you what would you sort of want to be talking about we just want to be trying out as many products as possible seeing what the room's customer wants that's why we're having what lands see what lands so we're having so much fun with like the summer drop thinking of Christmas we really want to do a pop-up that's like something really on our mind yeah we would love to do a pop-up for people who maybe haven't like felt the products or smelt the candle or just because even with the vase like people say oh it's so much bigger in person like we want people to be able to see them and feel them in person so a pop-up would be amazing that's hopefully like next year or something yeah money put it into the universe yeah and where do you stand on like retail like do you is there like a dream store that you'd love to see rooms in or or how how does that look or is it something that you want to keep hold of thought too much about it'd be so nice to have a little moment in the store to have our own store would be yeah i mean wow one day i can see like a selfridges moment yeah that would that would be insane yeah i think that would be lovely i think just in general though like again like this is kind of looking ahead to the next 10 years like i think what we're really just hoping for is that rooms is something that continues to grow and continues to stick with us evolves with us as well yeah and it like like with the girls bathroom was like oh that's we feel like we've always had that like that's our thing like hopefully in like five years like rooms will feel so the norm and just like oh yeah we've done loads like it's still here like we just hope that it sticks it sticks around just want to slowly evolve with us yeah being that extension of you yeah yeah and i think That's what you've done so well, though.

49:24That's like your niche. That's what you've done so, so well. Like the podcast with every, you know, it's like it's part of you now. Yeah. So hopefully rooms. I'm excited. Yeah, room store coming soon. I want to do our rocket round now, which is, well, it's supposed to be quick fire, but girls, it's never quick fire. Okay. You get some girls in a room together. We try, but, you know, let's see. What do you believe are the non-negotiables for running a business? Believing in yourself. yes backing yourself and your products yes having a strong vision i think you're gonna get a lot it's very hard to please everyone you're gonna get a lot of different people's opinions that's when you really have to you can't take every single person's opinion on board remember like why you started why you created the product what do i like what do i want what do i like what's my vision here yes that would be a big thing i think for us definitely keeping that tunnel vision and knowing like the end gut like what's the north star and keep going because you're so right it can become so noisy and particularly then when you build a team or you know the nature of everything now is online and everybody's got something to say it can be it's like remembering those values isn't it of the brand constantly and hammering those home what was the moment that you both first realized that you truly launched oh was there a light bulb that was like you know whether that's the podcast whether that that you're like okay this is we're on we're onto it here i my moment was when we did the royal albert hall that show yeah that was like this is crazy like how are we stood here right now like we had our pink tour bus our pink tour bus we were like this isn't like well we're gonna sleep on this bus tonight yeah that was like yeah that'll do it that'll do it yeah i love that what is the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed first thing i do when i wake up i don't expect this to be in sync I let my dog out for a wee that's the first thing I do when I wake up so that she doesn't wee on the carpet what was it last thing I do before I go to bed take her out for a wee make sure I don't want any wee when I wake up thank you I feel like I am always like morning beverage like it's a tea, it's a coffee as soon as I wake up my morning beverage is getting me out of bed your coffee girl, that machine and then evening i'm just a reader so like i always go to sleep reading my books so what are you reading at the minute right now i'm reading a ballad of falling dragons yes oh i've heard about this like dragon energy one of my friends is like into this whole dragon porn energy stuff i don't know about it and i'm like okay and i've never known her to be like this would be like away for the weekend she's like sorry i'm just gonna run and go for my book are you all right she's like made a book club and everything i'm like who are you but she's in she's loving it okay there we go um one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listened to oh it goes back to like some people thinking that they know best better than you like when we're working with people in the past and like being like oh no i trust them more than my own opinion yes that's kind of sometimes it's valuable but sometimes it's not knowing what to listen to and what to tune out yeah and how much your gut's going to overpower that i think it's tuning into that because sometimes you're like no i really knew that yeah and you you know you kind of let it slide a little bit um a skill that you'd love to learn oh maybe to be an artist yeah illustrations i love that so you'd say you'd save money wouldn't you i always think that fire up the ipad again yeah there you go i could start doing some lovely we could sell big rooms prints yeah there you go sketched by ourselves wow that'd be really there you go bring it back bring it back um what's one thing that you wish someone had told you before you started out oh that there are going to be problems that are things are going to go wrong that are out of your control yes you can get everything covered and check every box but ultimately there are production lines there are factories there is shipping like you there are things you can't control everything gonna get pushback gonna get delayed and also like on a regular basis yeah i think going into it i think going into it that was hard on the weekly yeah yeah going into it i was like oh yeah we might have a problem like every six months like whatever like it's a weekly occurrence you're so right and like it's just that's something that i didn't expect to be like the console yeah on a like yeah weekly like basis yeah you're so right because you do hear people talk about it but you kind of like but i've done you as much prep and as much sort of stuff that you can cover off there'll always be something that is way beyond your control that you're like they say make a plan and god laughs it's like it's that energy isn't it like okay and this is going to happen and sort of get resilient to that yeah and not let it affect you because i remember being rattled by shipping and it's like shipping it's on a container what are you going to do it's in the middle of the sea swim for it like you know um what would be the dream collab what or who would be the dream collab for brooms you know we see like these brand on brand collabs or like an ambassador how would that look we really want to collab with another brand we do it needs to be the right we're gonna have a little moment with our matcha glasses with perfect head yes oh yes and we're really excited about that because we love matcha it's the perfect matcha beverage cup So just more things like that that just make sense for the brand, I think, and the launch at the time.

54:59Yeah, things that feel organic. Yeah. Yeah, I love the brand on Brand Collabs. Yeah, we're really excited. And I also like it when you see them from like completely different worlds, but they make sense like that. I match a brand and you guys is, you're from a different place, but it makes perfect sense. Like rooms and like remote. This girl did a TikTok. She did. She did. She like AI'd us. AI'd us with like doing a room suitcase club. We're like, wow. Our manager was like, we screenshot that. It was amazing. Yeah, shout out to that TikTok. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. If you could choose one female figure as a mentor, past or present, who would that be?

55:34Someone to have on Speed Dial. Monday Swim. Yeah, Tash and Dev. Or going back to like blog days like Negan and what she's done with Gizu. Yes. We admire Negan so much. She's incredible. Do you know what? I think she's amazing. Like you say, but three of those women have absolutely smashed it. I had Tash Oakley on the podcast and she's a powerhouse. like so incredible but so generous with her knowledge and like she'd be a great i think she does mentor too but i think she'd be a great mentor in general because she's weird

56:06and for you girls it's the same thing right like they have come from a place of friendship and they're doing it together it's so nice for years and years and years and years like we just love them so much Monday Swim yeah there you go yeah same and i feel like it's having a moment at the minute too do you i think they're always they're always having a moment they nail it they know that they know the trips yeah and trips they're like you want to be there don't you i feel like they get it just right each episode i ask our guests to leave a tip almost like one real tangible advice that our guests can leave to listeners that are perhaps looking to launch in a similar vein to you girls say they're like okay we want to start i mean maybe not in a blog now maybe they might go straight to the gram or however that is or yeah what would your advice be i think i would say just go for it you can wait and wait and put something off and be like oh maybe i won't do that this year maybe next year i'll start it but you've just got to go for it and start and then once you've started like you've done it like with like youtube the blog the rooms it's like okay we finally started it so now we can like keep going and just getting that first foot in the door and just keep going yeah and do you think there's an idea of like start and perfect it later yeah almost yeah like just go for it like things are gonna go wrong anyway like you're gonna have to figure things out but that's like what's gonna make it great yeah and i think in that kind of same vein i would say like don't take criticism from someone you wouldn't take advice from that's a good one that's very i think that's a good mantra you know like have they walked would i go to this person for advice like if not like i'm not gonna listen to that i'm not gonna take that on and it's like go heavy on that actually because you're so right it's it becomes so noisy and people are so vocal with their opinions that actually if you're like great but i don't i don't see how you'd add value to my story anyway so why would i sometimes we listen to the criticism more than we listen to the advice and it lands a little more you know you could get like 10 comments or you know messages that are lovely and that one you'll be like oh like why did that land why did they're really positive why did I not listen to that one that was lovely yeah no no it's weird how that works isn't it yes it's almost self-sabotage it is you could just take note of the nine ones that were amazing and yeah the ratio there yeah it should land I know it's silly it's silly and then lastly I ask this because we talk about ladies who launch but when it comes to being ladies who lunch if you were sort of living out a typical working day where are you having lunch what's your order where are you sat talk to me we do love our lunch see i love the excitement for this food like gives it keeps us alive meeting rooms should be a restaurant really in another life so that could be a pop-up there you go the rooms restaurant there you go okay one of our favorites for lunch we love a greek moment for lunch yes we really because we like the dips we like the pita we like the tzatziki we like the prawns we like the greek salad we do we could say a bataga girls your eyes are both like yeah we're like it's hungry you're so me i love it right so where and where's your favorite greek in london to eat we like zephyr zephyr bataga is great gaia moment it's nice because we like that frozen um greek a bit more bougie there but the honey and oh oh my gosh we ride for frozen yogurt also the sushi they do the yellow towel that comes out with that oh no put that on your order next time yeah we've not tried and they bring the little like sauces for each and they like come out like little magic potions even my kids like it like it's like fun yeah yeah yeah okay that's next on our list uh-huh there you go see it's the best question yeah it is i love that question it's the best question okay so we're going for a greek moment why does greek food is just like such it's so beautiful that it just reminds me it's like what i call holiday food yes it's instant escapism isn't it yeah i love a tomato and like a bit of that yeah yeah yeah yeah tasty the dips yeah always more pictures please more pictures yeah like just bring more pictures already that basket gets empty the mediterranean diet always wins it does isn't it thank you so much girls it's been so nice to have you here thanks for my presence too.

1:00:21I know they're sold out so I'm delighted. It's been so good to talk to you. Congratulations on everything. It's so nice. I love it when I see women win and I don't think we ever get time to be like I'm doing well at this or this is going well so take your flowers. Thank you for having us. We've had a lovely time. Don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure that you don't miss out because next time I'm going to be talking to another that incredible lady who launched. If like me, you're a watcher, then please follow us on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe.