Ep 17: From the NHS to New York: the move that changed everything for Radhi Devlukia

0:11My guest today is a wellness advocate, plant-based chef and content creator who has cultivated a community around mindful, holistic health and intentional living. Having begun her journey within the healthcare sector as a dietician for the NHS, her life changed drastically when she moved to New York and transitioned her role into one that blends her passion for Ayurveda with her qualifications as a nutritionist. Through her thoughtful insights and radiant personality, she's inspired millions to lead lives of purpose and positivity. She's a constant reminder to slow down and cherish the moment.

0:49And I couldn't be more thrilled to have her on the podcast. Please welcome Radhi Dvlukia. I'm so pleased you're here. Thank you, me too. Genuinely, I'm so excited. We met over Instagram. We did. Which I feel like is a little, it's like a dating app, isn't it? It is. And then we met in person at the breakfast, didn't we? The Vogue brunch, yeah, I remember that. And I remember going away thinking, gosh, it's you radiate such positivity and such good energy. But, you know, sometimes when you meet someone, you're just really hoping that it matches. I hope she's really nice when you meet her. Yeah, I felt the same way with you, though.

1:27As soon as I saw you, I was like, well, I already knew who you were because I followed you and you have the most epic fashion, by the way. Every single time that this one outfit that I saw has been like screenshotted in my camera roll so many times. the green the green outfits like a green jacket oh the long trench thing oh I know you looked amazing I mean that's just what makes the grand babe I'll be honest in the house it's not so yeah no I know but like you had such great I felt like you had such great energy and fashion online but then I met you and you just seemed so genuine and loving in person too and I felt like people were just radiating towards you because of it so yeah the feelings mutual there we go look at us it's always good to start it is there's so much I want to talk to you about today because one thing that I love when I'm on your feed and I'm hearing you talk and is your passion your passion I suppose for helping other people and your selfless approach to your own body which I think is so it's so lovely to see and it's so so rare and encouraging us to kind of be really in tune with our own body which I think is kind of a real it's a real different way of looking at health and yeah particularly being raised here in the UK totally I think it's kind of it's something that we don't discuss enough I want to before we get into that I want to talk about your journey and where it began and what you thought you would do yeah when you were at school okay yeah so I honestly was not the best academic like academically I was not successful and I would say I started off really when I was younger all I wanted to be as and most brown girls want to be is a doctor like most Indian girls grow up thinking I want to be a doctor and I knew I really wanted to be a pediatric doctor like I knew I wanted to work with children that's what I always wanted actually I remember I got you know remember when you're in school you do those tea towels did you ever do that where you have to like draw on it yes and my kids do them it's so full circle am I gonna bought a tea towel with a little like dodgy little drawing yes and then you write like what you want to be and I found one from when I was young and it was like I just want to um have lots of babies and like look after them so essentially I really loved children it seems from a really young age I know so sweet um but also so funny that that's what I thought about when I was like 10 years old um but I really loved being around children and I knew that's what I wanted to kind of focus my work around um I did not get the grades to be a doctor by any means and so then my mum was like you know there's this degree that is being funded by the government you should do it it's called nutrition and I was like you know what sure you know what's best for me why not let's give it a go you sort of stumbled yeah across it I suppose I had no idea what I was even going to be doing at this degree it was free and what did you feel that at the time because you know everything when you're over the other side of it when you didn't get those grades because I think there's such a pressure now I think society I think culturally in different cultures there's a real pressure to hit certain grades and you know you know have a certain occupation how did that feel for you at the time was your parents really understanding or was it a tricky a tricky moment well okay so in my GCSEs I will actually just be honest I got no grade above B I think I maybe got a B and then everything else was like C D's and E's by the way if we're going to compare them to my grades that is absolutely winning oh my god thank you well in my school it was like completely not winning because I went to like Watford grammar school for girls and it was like the most competitive environment um and then when I got to college my mom had to beg like beg the college to take me and she told the teacher like the biology teacher she was like if you take her I guarantee you she's gonna get such good grades she's gonna be amazing I love her teacher no she convinced she went to meet yeah ultimate hype woman unfortunately I think I got like a cde or something at a level And I was like, oh, crap, this teacher no longer does teachers A-levels at college.

5:21She's just fed up after our year. But then I ended up getting into nutrition. At that time, I would say my parents being like Indian parents, they weren't the happiest people. And I guess I just thought I'll just keep trying and keep trying and keep trying. Now, looking back, I think for me, the school system, the way that it's taught was actually not the way that I learned. And I realized that when I got to my second degree at university and I was doing a lot of practical things, like as a dietitian, you go in and you work in hospitals. A lot of your grades are based on your practical abilities.

5:57I killed it there. Like I did so well when I was able to actually show my skills beyond writing it down on paper. So interesting. Yeah. I think so many people would say that. It's so true. And like, you know, as soon as you are in the bottom of your class, you're treated differently to the person who's at the top of the class. So naturally, if you grow up in an environment where your teachers are constantly telling you that you're just not good enough, it makes you constantly believe that you cannot achieve. And so it really changed my mindset, even around education, instead of being excited to do something that I wanted to learn about, even a subject that I cared about.

6:31It made me just feel like I should rebel and like not bother anyway, because I had been categorized as this person. And they wouldn't give you hope. They would just tell you you're just bad at this. And so I felt like the school system is quite harsh on people who don't get A grades. And I think and I see that even particularly now because I've got three children who are in proper school. My youngest is in like preschool until he starts. Yeah. And actually, I think if you're naturally academic and you're naturally gifted, I really wasn't. I found everything such a struggle. I was really creative.

7:06yes and I think if you're if you are naturally academic you're really praised and you're celebrated and it's kind of and you know I would love it if I wasn't I'm sure my mum would also celebrate that but in the school system it was it was it was a massive deal yeah actually now I think there's this whole new it's a whole other topic in itself but there's this whole new wave of sports day everybody's a winner right everybody gets a badge yeah and like my husband is so anti this it's something that he's so passionate about he's like I we celebrate them that of course try your hardest and you win but actually for the child that isn't you know in the a group at maths but can run that 200 meters like no one else yeah exactly where do they get that time to really shine it's a really it's kind of a really true flawed system I believe in that in that way yeah that the creative is just your hobby and like everyone can be good at it but like academics is where there should be rules and systems in place.

8:01That's so interesting. I didn't realise they do that now. Yeah, it's crazy. Everybody's a winner. And I suppose on the flip side, it's amazing if you aren't so sporty. And this is a class that you get really intimidated in. But actually... But then everyone should get A grades in maths. I should have got A grades in maths because everyone's a winner. Or you should be going, well, do you know what, darling? You got that D, but you're amazing. Yeah, exactly. You're going to go to school anyway. It's not kind of how it works. And I find it really, really interesting. How was that for you when you were really creative growing up?

8:28Did you, were you able to lean into it a lot? Were your parents quite open to it? My parents were amazing. That's so nice. Well, I say parents, my mum was amazing. At school, it wasn't so, secondary school, it wasn't encouraged. And then I homeschooled because I was in a pop band at So Young. Oh, yeah, of course. So like that part of that was homeschooled. Yes. Which I actually, look, I didn't get the grades. I wasn't academic. I've worked hard so that I really you know hope that I give my kids that opportunity but I think I will always be that parent that's really understanding because well I'm not going to be a hypocrite you know you do your best babe you do your best boo and I really want that for them but if it's not I think there's really this finding ways of nurturing and you know taking them and really shaping them and exactly supporting them in what they're good at you know playing to strengths my sister homeschools actually she's homeschooled both her kids from when they were born and one of them's eight one of them's four and it's just beautiful to see when you allow a child to lead on what they are good at and what they feel comfortable in and what their strengths are still obviously sharing all the information that they need but it just creates a like a different form of human when you allow that space so whether it's at home once the child's been to school and then they come back and you're creating that environment like that or whether it's during their schooling hours where they're able to lead and be the version that they want to be of themselves from at different ages so interesting beautiful and I'm so like I'm so interested in almost the science behind that I'd love to like I mean I've not got time to be a guinea pig in my own life but I would love to like see the difference if you were to go one route or the other but after lockdown girl let me tell you I don't think I'll be a homeschool teacher no but it's what you're saying I was yeah you're done but it's what you're creating at home you're creating that environment at home exactly out of school hours which is so important and it feels that you you kind of had that from your mom right the belief yeah definitely there was no giving up it was not like you are just gonna go and do nothing it was we're gonna find something that works for you and so yeah I ended up doing my nutrition degree and at that time I really appreciated it because it gave me such a deep understanding of food, the body, and more so how the healthcare system works.

10:47And I wasn't aware of that until I started working as a dietitian in the NHS. And as much as I loved it so much, because I loved being in a patient facing environment, where like, you get to see people every day, like, I'd work on the elderly ward where people didn't have relatives, and I'd become someone that they got really excited to see every day, or doing clinics for children where they were like, not eating properly, or obesity, whatever it was, diabetes clinics, you get to see people regularly and then also feel the impact that you're having. It's rewarding. Yes. But there was also some like, I had to follow a system that I didn't necessarily agree with as much.

11:20And I had to follow saying things that I didn't necessarily believe in. And I started creating these, I started realizing what my beliefs actually were. And they weren't necessarily aligned with who I had to be as a dietitian in the NHS. And do you think that's because like, we are so privileged, the fact that we have the NHS and we have free healthcare like we can't overlook how you know when you travel to other countries how it's amazing invaluable that is yeah but do you think because I'm of the understanding right that the NHS is set up to kind of it's it's for a cure right it's not for a prevention so if you've broken your leg you go and you exactly and you've got a cast and you know it helps with the situation you're in but not necessarily getting there and I think that's what I find really interesting is that what become really apparent to you definitely I think um it became most apparent to me when I then went to New York and I studied Ayurveda and um Ayurveda and I did my yoga teacher training there and what was amazing is I learned about how look western medicine is generally set up for treatment and cure and eastern medicine is set up for prevention so in Ayurveda it talks about there's six stages before the state of disease that's caught in western medicine and if you learn the symptoms of those different stages it can stop you from even getting to the point where you have to be diagnosed with something right so imagine imagine we blended both where you've got the diagnostic tools of western medicine incredible it can like figure things out in your body before you even feel them.

12:57But then imagine you were taught from a young age that this is how you tune into your body and how you learn these stages pre-diagnosis, that when your body starts feeling like this, when your digestive system starts feeling like this, when your skin shows up in this way, when your energy levels are like this, it could mean that you're starting to be on the path towards disease. So imagine you learned that from a young age. And And so I really noticed it when I learned Ayurveda because, and for anyone who doesn't know what Ayurveda is, Ayur means life or longevity and Veda means knowledge. And it's essentially the oldest health science that exists.

13:33It roots back to India, but really it's something that applies everywhere in the world. And it essentially teaches you how to create an internal environment and an external environment to create optimal health for an individual. So what you will eat will be completely different to what I will eat. What medicine you need for your body when you've got a cold may be different to the medicine I need when I have a cold. And so it makes so much sense. Like as soon as I heard that, I was like, of course. Of course it does. Where have we all been? Exactly. Of course my workouts have to be different. Of course what I eat has to be different.

14:02Of course the environment I have to set around me, even the colors that we keep around us, what may energize you when you look at it may deplete me when I look at it or it may create like anxiety. Like if I see the color red for me, I'm like, oh, this is too much. Someone else may say and be like, oh, this feels like love to me and it really calms me and soothes my heart. And so it's starting to understand your body from a really young age to be like, this is what works for me and what doesn't and how to adapt that as your environment around you changes. Yeah. And I think that's what, as we touched on before, that actually that's what we don't do here enough because it is that kind of one size fits all approach, you know, the same way.

14:41And it's not holistic enough either. No, no. And like you say, the knowledge is amazing. yeah but a balance of the two is kind of there's a lot of self-work to do in it is too it's participation you can't just be an observer in your life you can't like you have to be an active participant if you want your health to be optimal like I really believe that you can't just sit back and and put your health into someone else's hands which is you know what we're taught from a young age we're taught that if you have a cold or a cough go to the doctor if you break your bone go to this person. If you have, you know, mental health issues going on, or you're feeling a certain way in your mind, go see this professional rather than, and of course there's a place for all of those things, but you're not taught the tools and techniques to analyze it for yourself before you give your health, your body, your mind into someone else's hands to know whether what they're doing is helping you or not.

15:33And so I think that's, what's really difficult because is we give our power away so easily from a young age for people to just manipulate, use, tell us what to do. And it makes us feel so helpless in our own journey, in our own body. And it really disconnects us from our body too. And we're taught to be trusting in other people, but you're right, well, you don't trust yourself and your own view. So where do you go from there? I suppose for you being a nutritionist in a diabetic clinic and learning and understanding the holistic side at the same time, it must have been quite a sort of frustrating period of time where you're like, yes, but you didn't need to be here.

16:14Yeah, I guess so. You know what? I never actually felt that way when I was listening to people's stories because I actually think it's just lack of education. I think as soon as you know something, look, I think there are plenty of things that we do. Like they say doctors smoke cigarettes, right? They know the repercussions, but they will still smoke. In the same way, like I might know that sugar does this, But when I see, I don't know, like a vegan pastry shop, I'm like, oh, give it to me. Give all of it to me. And so, yeah. And so I think there's one side of things, which is learning information.

16:44And then at least you're making informed decisions. And so I think when you have the information available to you, a lot of people are just not taught about the basics of health and wellness. They're just not taught. And then when we are taught, it's on Instagram or on TikTok, where, of course, there is like a plethora of information. But it is almost overwhelming. Well, like one person's telling you to eat avocados. Another person's telling you that avocados are terrible for the environment. Another person's telling you that avocados cause an antihistamine effect in your body. Like there's just every single person is saying something different.

17:15So then when you get to an age where usually people get older, they're on social media from 16 or above, let's say. And then they're introduced to all this information from different types of health professionals and some non-health professionals telling you all these things to do. and then you're trying out all these things bit by bit and not really understanding how to apply it into your own life to benefit you best. Because you're not in tune with yourself enough. Because you're not in tune with yourself enough and then this influencer that you absolutely love and has... So stick with it, guys.

17:44Honestly, after two weeks, I felt great. This salad is amazing. It's like going to change your life. Eating this every single day, it like gives me all the things I need and it made me lose like 10 pounds. It's amazing. And you're eating this salad and it's giving you gut issues and it's making your stomach like hurling and you make you feel sick from it and it's not digesting properly and you're still like no I'm eating this salad because this is what's going to happen to me and then you know a month later you haven't lost the weight you your gut feels horrible and you haven't realized that actually you've done more damage to your body than good because it's the outside noise thing it's not being in tune enough and being distracted by everybody else's opinion yeah by everyone else's opinion which is what we're used to hearing how so let's rewind a bit let's so you're at the a diabetic clinic and then there's this big jump because then you find yourself in New York.

18:34Yeah I do I found myself in New York because my husband got a job in New York and it's so funny because the one thing that I said when we got married was my sister my mom and my grandma they all live like two miles away from each other all very close and so I was like the only thing I want is a house that's like two miles away from my mom my sister and my grandma and then I'll be fine everything else we can chop and change but that's what I want we bought a house two miles away from my mom my sister my grandma we lived in it for about three months just enough time for me to get the floors done to never live in that house and then and then he got this job offer in new york and at first i was like absolutely not like i never saw myself moving away i never wanted to or had the desire to live abroad it was just not you're a homely girl yeah i just it was just live i was gonna live a life in watford and for the rest of my life i would be a watford girl and i was really excited about it the end result couldn't be any more different yeah I know it's crazy and so um I end up saying yes after three days of not talking to him um it's not really how it goes yeah and I didn't even say yes I just put like bed sheets that had from Primark that had a New York skyscape and he's like so does that mean New York has to come here and like you're having a joke or like are we actually going I was like no we can go so we end up moving to New York but I'd been studying for six years because I did my nutrition degree and then did a dietetic degree dietitians are allowed to work in hospitals nutritionists can't so I done like two degrees two degrees later to work for less than six months at a job that I spent six years studying for to then go to New York on a spouse visa and not be able to work at all oh my gosh yeah so I got to New York and I was like what the hell am I going to do here this is a this is a big moment yeah it was huge because you're you're supporting your husband which we all want to do at the same time you've worked so hard for yourself and got to a certain point yeah yeah I know and then you can't use it then I can't use it what goes through your mind at that time um well Jay was like to me he was like you know if you want to stay in London I'll move to I'll do New York we can go back and forth we'll make it work you do what you want to do you know we'll figure it out and I was like no that's just stupid we just got married like I'll obviously come and so what did I do that I walked run you're crying a lot that's what I did first because I suppose you just you've just found yourself yeah you've you've got your dream location of your house yeah you're married you're in that bubble of it being lovely exactly you've got the degrees you're you know you're you're very safe yes very safe and I suppose it's finding yourself all over again in a different country not near your family uh-huh completely all over again and I was the youngest child so everything was like you know how my mum picked my degree that was how my all parts of my life was it was like if I struggled they would save me anything that happened like they would figure things out for me it was like oh I have coursework to do last minute okay my mom and my sister will stay up all night and help me finish it like I was really they loved me so much but at the same time it kind of made me less able to do things for myself when I left that's interesting and so I got to New York and I was like I actually don't know who I am because everything's been molded by other people of who I am because I let them and I wanted them to create me because I didn't want to put in the effort to figure that out safety blanket I suppose that's what makes you feel safe yeah it did like having them all around me and so once I stopped walking around New York crying I realized that I had to like find something to do during the day because I didn't know what I didn't know what to do and so luckily I had this I went to this center which was like a yoga center and I found this teacher called Divya she was teaching Ayurvedic cooking and I already loved creating food and I already had like a connection to it but I hadn't quite decided what that connection was so I just said to her I was like I will follow you around I will work for you for free just like teach me stuff that's what I want to do so I started helping her out in her workshops and it just opened my eyes up to Ayurveda and I was like this makes all the sense to me.

22:30So what was it about that moment that you're like okay this is for me that you're a sponge and you're absorbing it all but when did that light bulb go off and you were like ah okay this is this is my calling more because I felt the effect of doing the things that she was recommending you know when I was just like everything started making sense and at the same time I had started doing my yoga teacher training there and so I was learning a lot about myself it wasn't just like yoga poses it was like digging into the depth of who you are and I had felt very lost for a good few months when I first move there and it was more about finding like the finding who I was and what I liked and what I didn't like and I never thought about any of that stuff it was just I was put on this trajectory by by my mom or whoever else was recommending things but I never sat down to think like what is it that I actually want to do like yeah what is my reason for being in this world like why what do I have to offer to people around me I didn't feel like I did and so doing the yoga teacher training where I had to like dig into the depths of that while doing the Ayurveda workshops and helping with that I was practicing a lot of the things it wasn't just like me learning about it and and theoretically it was like let me go home and put this into play let me play with these spices and see how it feels in my body let me adapt my diet to my surroundings when it's winter let me do this when it's summer let me do this and everything from my skin clearing up to my digestive system feeling amazing to my mind feeling clear to me waking up and meditating in ways that I hadn't done before like there were just so many things that started clicking into place and it was purely based on I feel amazing doing this and now I want to be able to share that with other people and so I actually had a I didn't really have a Instagram platform was private it was just with friends and family where I just started sharing like recipes I was making and I read the tips that I was learning.

24:21So I was kind of like sharing what I'd learned as I was learning it. And you're passionate about it. And I think that's when you know that you are so, when you feel the effects of something and something really works with you. The first thing I will do is be like in my girls group chat, like you've got to try this. I've been trying this and I feel, and I suppose that for you, and that's how I see you, which is really nice. Like as I follow you, I see that you're just trying to bring everybody along for the ride. and you're like guys this works this is how I feel me yeah you know and I think you can really get that so I suppose it's kind of the snowball effect of the private Instagram that you share with your friends and family that exactly and it doesn't have to be and I remember thinking when I was studying I was like god I should just wait till I've really done the courses in this before I start sharing and then I remember this like one line that one of my teachers said and it was like like knowledge is there to be shared and like you do not have to be an expert on something and I was like it's so true as soon as you like hoard information and as soon as you keep it to yourself waiting to be an expert just means that you're in a position where you think that sometimes you just feel like you're above them and you're like I'm sharing it with you I don't need to learn anything back yeah and actually sharing as I went along allowed me to like be like oh actually I said this last week but actually I learned that it's actually this way and this way and so it kind of takes the ego out of being online because you're kind of just sharing as you are learning rather than feeling like I'm not an expert in this area and I'm going to teach you and then she's I think there's also the flip side of that where you, sometimes you don't feel qualified enough.

25:48It's almost that like imposter syndrome. Oh yeah, always. And like, should I share this? Am I, do I have the, you know. Constantly. The degree to do the, it's that thing of particularly, and I think that with you has grown over time where now you kind of have responsibility when you have a platform. Of course. But you want to make sure that everything you share. Is authentic and real. Is authentic and is right. Truthful, yes, exactly. Well, I always just see myself as, and this is what stops the imposter syndrome for me because I did get to that place and I was like, I just, I kept saying to Jay, I need to do another course.

26:19And he was like, you've done like five courses now. Stop with the courses. And I remember hearing like this concept of being a bridge for people. And so like, I am not the most expert in Ayurveda. I am not the most expert in clean skincare. I'm not the most expert in any of the things that I talk about, but what I can be is a bridge to take you to the next person that is. and so I can give you all the information I have so I'm taking what I've learned from my teachers they may not even have platforms most of them don't a lot of people are like they're so scientific and or they're monks or they're like people who don't care about social media to any degree but how can I take that from someone who people won't get to experience and won't get to learn from and share that be a bridge to back to that person's book or back to that person's information or their courses or how can I take them to a point where this is as much as I've learned if you want to know more these are the places you can find them these are the people you can find them that I'm still learning yes and so being a bridge takes that pressure off of like yes I don't know everything but I can lead you to someone who does know more than this if you want to know it I I find that so interesting and I feel as I said before like your selfless approach to everything I think is so beautiful and so special.

27:36How do you, I want to dig back deep into the you moving into New York, not knowing what's next. So I think that's quite a powerful tool. You know, somebody that's maybe in a system like the NHS that feels, it's designed for what it does very well. It does. But actually that kind of, I suppose, nurturing an individual, you know when you are on the payroll there and you are staff I can't imagine and this I could be really wrong in saying this because I don't have experience but I can't imagine myself that it's a place that's set up to kind of nurture every kind of member of the team and I think that must be you I suppose you learn from your peers but the system itself I think is so underfunded that we know and it's so stretched that actually taking care of the individual must be a real challenge so how do you there'll be lots of people listening that maybe do work for the NHS or like you know a big organization yeah how do you take that leap to say actually there's more here and I know yours kind of happened in I suppose a non-conventional way but really starting again and making that pivot yeah and trusting yourself what would your advice be um you know I remember at the hospital I was working at, you know, the role that I had as a dietician was not really, not really respected yet because it was such a new role.

29:05And so there was like a whole team of us, but I would say that our opinions and like the patients would really value it, but the doctors and people around us wouldn't necessarily think that it was a vital role in the hospital. Because it was quite new. Because it was new and it was kind of like, okay, yeah, you're going to talk to them about nutrition, whatever like you know it was it was very uh dismissed okay and what I noticed was when you when you understand the value like I easily could have allowed other people's opinion of that job to feel so right like I could have thought you know what you're so right actually I should just sit back and I should make myself unknown and I should just go and do my job quietly and leave that ward or leave that part of the hospital um every single day kind of making myself feel invisible because obviously the nurses have such a huge role that they're incredible and then the doctors have such a huge role that they're amazing the physios have their role a dietitian was kind of just like okay you talk about food great yeah um but I think what really helped was creating and so creating value in my own role and understanding how important it was um and when you realize the benefit of something even if someone tells you that you're not important you're like well actually on an individual level I know how much I'm helping that person and then creating that awareness and knowledge so I think it doesn't mean that someone in the NHS has to leave and go or start on their own trajectory but what I do think it means is creating that value and understanding of that value that you have wherever you are and if it doesn't feel known to other people you need it to be known to yourself you can't let other people's value of you determine how much you value yourself and then I think if you are thinking about leaving something like that I would say for me it was a really different situation I had no idea what I was going into but I guess my from what I learned from it would be um understand what it is you want other people to feel or what you want to do for other people before you decide to take the leave not about what it's going to like gain for you because most of us I say not most of us we are all programmed to want to be of service to other people we just don't realize that that actually when we end up doing things for our own self gain or benefit it never feels as good as it does when you're thinking about what it's going to achieve for you to help other people and so every single job has the ability whether you are working in um road improvements I saw someone doing that when I was coming here like whether you're someone on the street doing like improvements on the road for people or whether you're a doctor or whether you are a podcaster or whether you have a beauty brand like whatever those things are at the end of the day you are serving a specific community you are doing something for a particular group of people and so until you realize I was just on on a phone to someone who is a podcaster on the way here and she called me and she was like I just had a breakdown this whole morning because I just got in this loop of comparison online and I feel like why am I even doing this oh that's that's why am I even doing this and why am I here like what is what is the point of all of this and I said I go through that every single month and the first thing you have to think about is what do I want people to feel what do I want people to learn from me and what do I want people to experience?

32:13Before you even think about what your niche is, before you think about what your next step is going to be, before you think about what you want to be known for. Or what everybody else is doing. Or what everybody else is doing. Think about what is it that I want to, how do I want to affect people and what do I want people to feel? And then the job, the role, whatever it is, you can curate whatever you're doing to be that or you create a whole new job for yourself that allows you to for people to experience that but your clarity becomes I mean you you end up feeling so much more clear when you have that in your mind yeah before thinking about oh I want to be a doctor a lot of people I know are doctors and are so miserable because they didn't think about what they actually wanted to do for other people they wanted the role of being a doctor they wanted the prestige of being a doctor but they didn't think about what it was actually going to entail and so if you're there for that then that's fine but that's a self-gain motive but what is it that you want other people to feel and experience I think that makes a difference to the role that you end up seeking or choosing to do and I think you like that is so powerful and I think you could apply that everywhere everywhere yeah like like you say if you're listening to this and you're thinking of creating a brand or you're launching something what is it what is it that you want other people to take from this I think that is that's the place to start even if you're choosing to stay at home and look after your children like I admire my sister so much she is choosing to put every single part of her being into homeschooling and loving and caring for her children and I'm like you know I think that's a really undervalued job that people do not agree more they don't like oh I you know she I know that she's been through that herself or it's like oh people just don't think of it as oh these are your achievements you're just to stay at home mom it's that it's an eye for somebody that has multiple jobs yes please believe that's my hardest right like sometimes I go to work for the break yeah exactly I'll be working a 12-hour day and that feels like peace in comparison and it's such a beautiful role to have and actually just as important as the service that someone does as a doctor as a nurse because you are creating rewarding yes and you're just you are actually creating a human being that feels wanted and needed and and has purpose in their life and like So your whole energy is going towards that.

34:28And that's so beautiful. Yeah. Just as important as another role in this world. Because that's one thing. And I really noticed that since becoming a parent, I think it's something that I probably didn't think about beforehand. But actually, there's that real idea of some of my friends are the greatest parents I know. And we all love to think that we're incredible parents and we do our best by our children. But actually, there's that. And it's on the flip side, the conversations that women have, which again goes back to the whole pressures of society that you're if you don't have a job it's almost like well what do you do yeah but actually being a mum is what I do and that is something I take very seriously but if you do have a job it's on the on the flip side is oh so do you are you not really too bothered about being home for the children yeah you can't win no not at all it's the nature of it and I think and I'll have this and I love it when I sit down with my girlfriends and we have these real frank conversations because actually we all in one way or another can feel a little bit inferior and like we're not doing the right thing yeah are we being the right role models you know should we be working or should we be showing them that they can have a career or should we be showing them that they're the most important you know it's a really kind of always such a battle between that isn't it yeah so I want to deep dive into health because honestly health and wellness is a topic I'm like that head first yeah I'm like what how am I gonna live longer how am I gonna have better clarity how am I gonna shift brain fog I'm in all the way and what I love is that you've taken all of your learnings and serving other people that's what it always comes back to for you the book yeah like that's a big moment it's a huge huge moment Yeah, it was like, it felt like a baby when I was having, when I had that project.

36:15It was four years in the making. It takes like at least three years to do a cookbook from the moment you conceive it to the point of it actually coming out into the world. And it was just at first I was like, what am I going to write a book about? Like when I got approached by publishers, I was like, I don't even know what I'm going to do. flattering but it's so sweet I was like no I really don't know and then when I sat down to write like things just started pouring out that I didn't even realize I knew and that was what was such a beautiful part of writing and I encourage this for you and someone who wants to journal instead of writing a book it's you know has a similar process where you're really just churning out and reflecting on life and what you've learned and I think it's so beautiful to have those moments in your life where you get to do that I got to do in the form of a book but I've continued to do that practice in the form of a journal because I realized how much you can dismiss and not even pay attention to that you have absorbed and experienced and learned about in life and so it was it's basically what you feel what you said my Instagram is of a culmination of everything that I've learned essentially the book is that like I created 250 recipes for this book they had only signed up for 100 recipes and I was like no I want 250 in there they were like absolutely not because the price of that book is gonna like rock it you can't do that no one's gonna buy it so I was like fine second book second book yeah that's what they kept saying I was like no I want in this one and then they were like okay fine um 150 I said 150 they said no 125 so I was like fine we did 125 recipes in the book yeah exactly we did 125 recipes in the book and then there's also just other parts of my life I told them I do not want it to just be a cookbook because I as much as I love food food is like just calling it food and calling it a recipe book feels so surface level like yeah it's just like here's something you can make this is my passion this is how I live my life yes I want like the all the other parts that allow your body to be well and to thrive like I need that in that book I need them to understand what is it about the food that they're eating that is fueling them not just okay if I have this spice it's good for me no like what can I act how is it actually affecting my body and so I luckily they they let me very graciously do the combination of both where it's like a health and wellness book but it's also a recipe book and so it was it was really special creating it and obviously there's 125 recipes and a lot of information in that book but if if I asked you what wellness means to you now because you've you know you've lived a life you've tried lots of different things I know that food and cooking has always been a big part of you I think because of your mum as well and lapping up which just sounds incredible by the way I want to be a lodger in your house oh you have to you have to what does wellness mean to you and what does it look like to you now?

39:09Good question. I think after being through so many different versions of wellness, physically thinking that physical wellness, thinking that wellness meant just what you physically look like. I think I definitely went through a phase of that. I grew up quite overweight when I was younger. And so my whole focus on wellness was based on how do I physically look? And then I would go to a Barry's boot camp and I would see someone that was much smaller than me and had the body that I thought I wanted next to me and they must be really healthy they must be so healthy and then I'm like outrunning them or I'm out you know lifting heavier weights and I'm like this is so interesting and it started changing my perspective on wellness in that way and then honestly now I would say wellness to me is how do I feel joy and content in my physical mental and emotional well-being in my mental physical and emotional health.

40:03Like that is what I see as being overall wellness. Like it's not just about focusing on my physical body because when you sometimes do that, you neglect your mental and your spiritual and your heart health. And I don't mean by heart health, like cardiovascular. I mean like how are my emotions and my mental health doing? And so I really think it's about wellness being holistic and approaching it from all three areas. And I think unless you have that trio and doesn't have to necessarily be in balance, but in mind when you are creating your life. When one suffers, they all suffer. It's not that when your physical health is really strong, you need it to be in all three areas of your life.

40:42And that for me has been, when those three have been in place or in alignment, that's when I feel like I am thriving. It doesn't happen often, but I know that that's the goal I want to get to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's possible. It's possible, exactly. And I'm interested to know how you kind of weave that into business because, you know, it's, there's so many areas of what you do and it's, it always comes back to wellness. Let's talk about Juni. Yeah. Because this is so, so exciting. Oh, it's so exciting. I just, I love creating. Juni was like a little COVID baby of ours. It was a little project that we started in COVID.

41:19At first it was Hot Teas. So it actually wasn't called Juni way back then. It was, and there was another brand and we started off with Hot Teas because during COVID I had learned all this stuff from Ayurveda and I was like okay I'm gonna make all these concoctions of herbal remedies that I'm not gonna get sick we're gonna stay healthy I'm gonna put this spice in this herb in this thing in and I was so obsessed with making my kitchen my medicine cupboard essentially and I had you know over the past 10 years I've really worked to take away 99 percent of like conventional medicine to just try and help do prevention in my life and that's through what I'm eating the spices I'm having and the remedies that I'm creating at home and so I started creating love to look in your cupboards oh my gosh my spice cupboards are like one two three four five six seven drawers full stop I swear my spices are like I honestly and I'm not just saying this my spice box is genuinely my medicine box like I can give you a remedy for pretty much anything from the spices and I guarantee you please send me a list please send me a list it is it has been such a beautiful thing to also experience and see like there's one thing about reading about it and then like putting it into practice in your life um so anyway we I started creating all these remedies and then we had Kim Peral she's our co-founder and also the first investor in our company and she already had these incredible successful companies in the past but she really wanted to create something with me and my husband and she said pick something you want to do let's make it and so what an opportunity what an opportunity and also that just speaks volumes about the both of you because you know to your skill and your knowledge taking a risk yeah like you say you feel like sometimes that you've still got lots to learn and you're not necessarily an expert but that vote of confidence it was amazing and she was so I mean she was wonderful and she had all the like all the information and the knowledge that we don't have to start a company she had and so we came up with tea because it was just something that honestly I was doing in the moment and I've just loved the idea of herbs healing people it's always been something that I've been really interested in and something I was focusing on at the time so anyway fast forward we ended up having to shift because it was hot tea America is not a place for hot tea London is the UK is but America everything's ice it's cold yeah everything is cold beverages yeah yeah and so we made a switch to sparkling teas and the canned sparkling teas but they have adaptogens and nootropics in them and so the reason we did that is because adaptogens and nootropics are something I think are really necessary for people to have on a daily basis but people don't know how to use them yeah and so I really wanted to bring people spices and herbs and remedies into something that they could have every single day as part of their daily life without making crazy adjustments or having to take things that feel unfamiliar so we created juni and it has been so fun i do all so we have very separate roles like i do all the creativity i create the flavors i decide what adaptogens go into that i decide what nootropics go in i do all the 20 testing rounds of each each flavor and you know thinking about all the different things i want to create for the brand um and a big part of the marketing part of it and then Jay does all the kind of uh CFO CEO stuff like doing all the looking after the team and stuff that makes my head hurt yeah but he's very good at doing the investor calls doing the fundraising and whatever it is um and that's so nice that you I mean you've you've supported each other it's clear to see along the way so beautifully from that you taking the leap to move into New York.

44:58But being each other's ally in that way. It's so great that we have separate roles. That sort of different dynamic in business is so special. It's so great because we also don't have to have many work conversations because we do such separate things of the business. I'm like, you don't have to manage me. I don't have to manage you. You can switch off at home. Exactly. And also, I think we both work in very different ways. So actually, I don't think he would ever hire me. And I'm not sure. actually I probably would hire him but I don't think he would hire me I have a very I go towards a creative mindset and so structure is really difficult for me yeah and so if I'm trying to think of flavors I'm like no we're not thinking of one we're thinking of 30 in one meeting when it's supposed to be about that one and I will go off on a tangent and it's like let's do this one this one this one and then we should put this into here and I just read this study about this and so a meeting that's supposed to be half an hour ends up being three hours I feel like I hear myself here yes so much and Jay is like his schedule from 7 a.m in the morning till 6 p.m or 7 p.m at night is scheduled from every single minute like there is not a minute that is wasted in his day and so um we also work very differently so it's kind of nice that we also have separate roles where we obviously have our team meetings and stuff together but we don't have to um we don't have to necessarily like deal with each other's quirks yeah exactly exactly so So yeah, it's been a really fun project.

46:20And now like just the company's growing and we just had a big team meeting and I was like looking around the table. I was like, how is there this many people on the team now? It's just amazing. It's so cool. And do you know what I love about it, which is so cool. I think the branding is gorgeous. Oh, thank you. And it feels like a treat. It feels fun, you know? And I think there's that real kind of serious wellness approach, which is so important, but it feels fun. It is fun, exactly. You're getting so many things that are beneficial for you in a drink that actually tastes really good. When you come to LA or New York, you have to tell me because I will send them to you.

46:51I can't wait to bring them to the UK. I'm coming just to look in your kitchen. Yes, come. I'm going to be honest. We have to cook together. I'm getting a flight to see your spice cupboard. Yes. Yeah. I want to do the rocket round now, which is essentially a quick fire round. I'm going to put my tea down because that's not very professional, is it? Okay, so just the first thing that comes to your head. Okay, is it one word or is it sentence? Well, you know. You know, tell me one word actually. I'm not too strict. Okay. It's fine. Okay. we'll edit you out okay okay first questions what do you think the non-negotiables are for launching a business this might be a bit controversial but energy over skill when when hiring love that I have made many mistakes about do you want me to show elaborate elaborate okay I'd say it's a quick fire babe it never yeah yeah okay uh actually I was talking to I was told you I met Jess before this and I was talking to her about this before I came in and we were saying how at the beginning of both of our journeys of starting a business, we were talking about the beginning of when we were starting up our businesses, we were going for skill.

47:56What this person has on paper is why we're going to hire this person. And as time has evolved, you spend way more time with the people you work with than you do with the people you even have at home than your families. And so if I'm coming in with 90 % energy, which I really try to do with my team because I understand that like literally every single thing that you feel is felt with everybody that's around you but if someone's coming in with 20 % energy I'm literally feeling drained every single minute of the day and so of course we have our off days but generally now what I've started doing is certain skills can be taught on on the job but energy cannot be changed most of the time and so I'd say of course there are certain roles that have to be like if it's something to do with finance they need those skills but there are certain roles that are around you most of the time And those people you have to pick based more on, in my opinion, energy and the desire to be there than specific skills that could actually just be taught.

48:48And it's so important for the whole team because energy really transfers and you really feel that. I have a team of women. We all cycle sync. Everyone's on their period at the same time. And everyone is just like, you feel that in the room. So when one person comes in consistently with the desire of not being there and you feel that and they're not excited to show up and they're not grateful to be there. I'm grateful to have them. I want them to be grateful to be here. And so I would say energy over skill sometimes. I love that. I love that. When did you first realize that you truly launched? Oh, my God.

49:26When did I? Like that moment where, I don't know, a friend calls or there's that moment, isn't there? you're like I think this is my book tour yeah because I think as people on social media you live in a bubble of meeting people who are also on social media and sometimes you don't get to actually meet your community and I made a point on my book tour that I didn't want to do just like events where it was just people who were online I really wanted to meet people who are buying the book and like that were excited about it and they'll had questions about it and so I did lots and lots of events like that.

50:00And it was just the most beautiful thing to hear like people saying, oh my gosh, I remember being on a hike and someone screamed at me, I drink water differently because of you. And I was like, oh my God, you drink water differently? Because I mean, I had this one video that went like a bit crazy online and it was just about like how you're drinking water the wrong way. And then I met people at my bookstore that was like, I turned vegan because of you and my skin cleared up and I turned vegan because of you and my gut changed and I started doing this, this and this. And I was like, when I felt the information I was sharing from people who changed my life, was also changing other people.

50:34I was like, this is it. It's landed. Like, this is why I'm doing it. That's when I felt like I launched. That's so beautiful. What do people usually seek your advice or help for? Oh, good question. Remedies for things and skincare. Yeah. Remedy, skincare and hair care. Look at that skin. I've got so many questions, girl. uh what brand do you wish that you'd founded oh what brand do i wish i'd found it that's a really good question um a platform like goop but in my own way yeah yeah a platform like goop where it's like the hub for health wellness recommendations it's got um respect and like honor to the name too um and also they connect with really great holistic health experts so that's one i can think but also a spice company basically your instagram yeah yeah okay yeah this is what i see yeah oh my gosh that would be incredible next thing yeah there we go there we go um who if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present who would it be mine are always people in my life that people don't know that's okay okay my grandma oh like she and i'm not just saying this like she is 90 years old and she is the epitome of everything I'd want to be when I'm 90 her health the way that she's looked after herself in her life she's been through so much in her life like she was a refugee here she lost her husband at a really young age she has just been through a lot in her life and the consistency of looking after her body like she fasts in specific ways she eats not too much not too little she's always had moderation in her life always had the deepest a spiritual practice that I aspire for and then at the same time when people meet her her energy just like captivates people her hugs like give energy to people she just has so much joy and love for people that it just comes out whenever she meets a stranger or the person that's in her family and so I always think about her when I'm doing things because I'm like that's what I want people to feel like when I'm around them um and you're already there let me tell you but it's Definitely her.

52:45Sorry, I can't think of anybody like. No, no, no. That's who that person is to you. That's your answer. And then lastly, if you could trade one of your current skills for a superpower that would help your business, what would it be and why? Okay, I would give up a bit of my cooking skill for... Mine would be the ability to... The ability to... This isn't really a skill, but I want to go into everyone's kitchen. I want multiples of me so I can go into everyone's kitchen and create their apothecaries in their homes. Okay, so we need to clone you. Yes, I want to be able to be cloned just for that skill to be able to like create healing hubs for people in their own homes.

53:30To reach more people. I'm sorry, I couldn't think of another one. But yes, that one. That's good, that's good. That makes perfect sense. So now it's time to leave a tip. Okay. And it could be something, you know, that you've learned along the way or something you're still working on, but a tangible piece of advice for somebody listening to this that could take away something from you. um I would say don't wait too long for like the when I I think that's what I've I've um done in the past and it's never really served me well you're constantly thinking of the when I feel like this or when I do this or when I become this or when I've studied this and it's like usually that's just our mind and our insecurities playing on us but as soon as you start you create that feeling of doing and that feeling of doing encourages you to keep going until you actually take the first step.

54:26You actually feel more scared of it than you feel good about it. And so taking that first step, by the way, that's about a workout. That's about working. That's about any part of your life. The doing is what creates the feeling. The feeling does not create the doing. And so I would say just bloody do it. Like just do it. Just take that first step. Don't wait for the feeling. You find things to put you off, don't you? Yeah. Don't wait for the feeling. Oh, I'll do that when I feel a little bit more like this. Or I do that when. Emotions are so fleeting. And like doing things based on emotion is what gets us in trouble.

54:59Do things based on what you know and what you want to do. And the feeling will come after. Doing creates the feeling. Yeah. I love that. It does. Oh, you're so clever. And then lastly, I'm very nosy. And I feel this question couldn't be more apt for you, to be honest. So we are ladies who launch, but we want to focus on ladies who lunch. So how do you normally spend your lunch hour? What kind of things are you eating? If we're talking like it's a busy day with uni or you're writing, you've got your lunch hour. How are you spending it? Where are you and what are you eating? Okay, I know exactly what I'm doing because I'm a bit like clockwork with this.

55:38I am on FaceTime to my mum because I live in LA and it's usually her time to wind down in the day. So she's got time to talk. so I'm on FaceTime to my mom sometimes adding in my grandma um and I'm eating usually my everything salad which is like a huge salad with like beans seeds vegan ricotta a great dressing all the veggies that you possibly want in it and I'm usually sitting either outside or like at my desk in my office when I can like shut the door and have no one else in there um so you take your lunch I quite like that because I'm always interested when you know a lot of people eat with their mouthful yeah sort of trying to make everything happen I do have days like that but are you your goal is to shut the door and have a bit of time even if it's 15 minutes like sometimes I will run over my podcast run over everything and I have 15 minutes but I'm like give me those 15 minutes so yes I do like I'd say at least three out of five working days I will able I will be able to do that and it's really nice that's a lovely thing yeah every what dressing oh my gosh oh this okay my dream dressing apple cider vinegar dijon mustard a little bit of maple syrup or agave um olive oil black pepper mixed herbs game i keep a huge vat of it in my fridge and the whole team just uses it that's changed it game changer and apple cider vinegar is like just a dream yeah that's the best i'm having fun yeah thank you so much i've enjoyed this so much.

57:09Me too. Honestly, it's been so nice to deep dive into everything and hang out with you. I loved it. We have to do this more. Yes, please. You can make me a salad next time. Okay, perfect. Ah, thank you.

57:27She was probably the most wholesome human I have ever met. I loved every second of that and I tell you what, I'm definitely going to make that salad dressing tomorrow. I hope you enjoyed it don't forget to follow us on apple and spotify or wherever you get your podcast to make sure you don't miss out because next week we'll be back with another incredible lady who launched