Ep 18: Formulator, Face and Founder: how does Sunday Riley do it all?

0:12Today's guest launched her namesake brand in 2009 with a determination to change the way we think about skincare. By using cutting edge technology, she's created some of the most beloved products in the industry. She is a true entrepreneur with a deep love for science who continues to push the boundaries of innovation in skincare. Please welcome to the podcast, Sunday Riley. Thank you so much for being here. I am such, I mean, you already know this. I'm such a huge, huge fan of your products. You are actually part of, I see your name every day, twice a day. That's wonderful. I love that. I'm so intrigued when I get to sit down with women that I admire.

0:56I'm just so intrigued kind of where the passion and where the entrepreneurial spirit really began. So tell me a bit about your childhood before the Sunday that we know. Yeah, OK. We should have brought my mom on. She'd be like, well, let me tell you. That could be exposing. Yeah, yeah, that'd be fine. It's fine. I feel like I've exposed everything. So my childhood. So I was, yeah, I was raised in Texas. And we didn't have a lot growing up. My parents did fine. They did fine. But they were really young when they had me. And there was always this sense that I was, I don't know. I remember being five years old and having this sensation on my birthday, this epiphany that I was going to have to save everyone.

1:42That was my deal. I was like, I'm going to have to get us out. I'm going to have to do something with my life. And very much so, I was told from the time I was really young that I could do anything I wanted, absolutely anything. My aunt was a big part of my childhood as well. She passed away years and years ago. But she was a big magical thinker. She fundamentally would tell me, we didn't have any money, but she would say to me, you have to take tennis lessons, you have to take golf lessons, with the small amount of money that she could pull together. And she would say to me, because when you're older and you meet very sophisticated people and they say, you know, like, we're going to play golf.

2:18Would you like to go? You can say, absolutely. I played golf in my childhood. She's like, you don't have to tell them what neighborhood it was. You don't have to tell them whatever. So she was like, you have to learn all these things because I want you to, like, she had this. She'd always say, like, you're going to go and you're going to do all these amazing things. And, you know, she was incredible. incredible but it was just it was just from a very early age it was just this idea that um that I should and could go on and do stuff and so but the the the downside of that was when it was not down it was just wonderful um but then when I hit you know I'm like going up actually I'm like trying to go down when I hit like troughs and you're you think you're going to be somebody and then something you you experience a lot of failure it's just it's that's also kind of an interesting journey as well which I can also say I experienced at the same time yeah it's so interesting it's almost like I mean now we call it manifesting but at the time they weren't really knew what that meant yeah but almost manifesting your future yeah like your aunt was putting you in those circles putting you in those places that she really believed that you should be oh yeah I mean she would make me watch tv shows to be like be like him be like her I had to watch all the soap operas with her I mean she was she had her own like battles as well like she had some maybe some mental health battles as well so the magical thinking was balanced with other qualities but um but that was just a absolutely wonderful way to grow up uh you know thinking you're going to be like a soap opera actor in real life and almost like if you don't ask you don't get you don't put yourself out there it's not going to come to you yeah I think the earlier you I always say that to my kids like the earlier you understand that idea the better where did the love of skin care begin was that something that was around you is that something that your aunt kind of or your mom passed down to you?

3:58How did that love affair begin? So probably with my grandmother, who is my aunt's mother, so my dad's mother. She was very present in my life as well. I would say those two women were very present for me growing up. And my grandmother had beautiful skin and she was very good at taking care of herself. She was like a, you know, she was just effortlessly beautiful. And it's not like with a big budget. It was just, she just did fine things. I always thought, I always thought she just looked so regal. and she always took really great care of her skin and would say you know you can you can do these things you can do whatever and so I would always just kind of incorporate that I should say like you know aloe does this and this does this and so that was a to me it was just this kind of like matriarchal beautiful kind of escape thing that I loved and then also I grew up in a very very sunny warm climate and so it was always like you have to protect your skin you have to whatever you know you can you'll you'll burn you'll this like it's always like danger and so just I became very skin conscious very young because I had to make sure that I didn't you know you know burn it every five minutes yeah of course safety yeah yeah did you when you went to school is that where did you think you would head because I'm always because I'm always interested because often I speak to different people and they started in real estate or started in law and then opened a skincare brand there's always such an interesting journey so when you went to school was that something that was always in the back of your mind did you know that you wanted to have your own brand or did you what was what was the idea of the future at that point like when I went to university uh no I didn't think that at all I had no idea what I wanted to do I thought about I really wanted to be a doctor um that really appealed to me so like the the medical aspect was really and that's what I was kind of think also drawn to with skincare is like the functionality of it like how it works um and then and or a sci-fi writer that was always like a big I really wanted to be a sci-fi writer.

5:51This is exactly what I mean. Yeah, that was like a big thing for me. And it's still my favorite genre. And still it may happen, still may manifest. But that was really, really what I wanted to be. I didn't even have a concept of owning or running a skincare company. Honestly, I didn't even understand at that time what being in business would mean. To me, it just meant like kind of being behind a desk. And actually, it sounded awful to me to be behind a desk all day. Yes. So you knew there had to be something that was going to light you up, whether that was a sci-fi writer, whether that was being a doctor.

6:23Yeah. So you go to school. You're studying to be a doctor at this point. Okay. Well, I'm full training. Okay. So I didn't make it to medical school, to be really clear. No. So when I was in school, actually, no. So what happened was I went to the University of Texas, stayed there for a while, and then I actually dropped out of school. which is like my fun fact. With you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Welcome. It's a club. It's actually a highly successful club for a lot of people. At the time, your parents aren't too sure, but. I wasn't too sure. I wasn't too sure. But I had this fundamental feeling that I was on the fundamental wrong path.

7:08Right. And I ended up taking a road trip at, I don't know, maybe I was like 19 or 20, across America with some people I met on the street. That's a whole other podcast. Went to Florida, came back, and just in doing so, missed my finals, missed whatever purposefully, probably, and then had to kind of reassess what my options were because at that time my dad said to me, well, you know, thanks to this little thing that you just pulled, medical school is no longer an option for you, most likely. And then I was like, oh, you know, and I, you know, I just, I had to kind of like reassess what I was going to do.

7:46I had no idea. And I ended up, but I felt fundamentally that I kept saying to him, he kept saying, what are you running away from? And I kept saying, I feel like I'm running towards something, not running away, running towards. And I found a lot of people didn't understand that. And I didn't, there was no, there was no prototype. There's no one who had done anything who had been, you know, broken free from anything in my, you know, everyone had done everything correctly. And my family since the dawn of time, there was no example where I could give. I was just simply a disappointment. But I did fundamentally believe that I was doing the right thing, though I couldn't explain it to you.

8:25And I ended up going to work at Starbucks to try because my dad said, well, if you're trying to figure things out, you can work at Starbucks, which was, by the way, one of the best jobs I've ever had in my entire life. and then I ended up applying to a drama school and coming to London. So as you can see, there was no skincare at that moment. I was only 20 years old. And also there's so much figuring out to do at that point. Like you say, as parents, like I get what your dad's saying, as parents you're supposed to guide and maybe steer in what you believe at the time is the right direction because we're all doing best by our kids.

9:01But actually there's so much figuring out to be done at that point and like you say if you've not had that kind of entrepreneur around you yeah it then looks very different when you're not conforming to what is the kind of correct way yeah it it is very different and there's no one to sort of take that lead from because you are figuring it out as you go yeah and that's part of it yeah absolutely absolutely and I think you know once I kind of I did I will say like there were many years that were spent adrift um because it's not like then I was like and then at 21 I found it blah blah blah and it's like it wasn't that simple it wasn't that easy it was actually like a real struggle because I made these choices that had consequences um but I was just I I just didn't feel like what I thought I was gonna feel in life which was like this clear vision and this like all these things and I just didn't I didn't feel that way and then ended up getting married to the you know to the wrong person like no disrespect to the person but it wasn't right for you yeah exactly and then I ended up with a child and And then I end up with whatever.

10:04And it was like one day just saying like, I was fundamentally going to be someone. Like I was like, I was, I was raised on soap operas to be that character. I was whatever. And due to a series of events and choices, by the way, that I made, I, you know, I, I'm not there and nor am I anywhere near it. And it's also really hard to start whenever everyone around you has like seven, eight years of work experience. And you're like, okay, I have zero resume, but I absolutely promise you I'm very gifted at something but I'm not sure you know how to show that to you. How that is yeah and I think like you say it's and I suppose that's what you touched on earlier as much as it's wonderful to have that kind of outlook on you can be whatever you want to be sometimes when you're in that position and that what you want to be isn't here right now that's also hard right to kind of hold on to that yeah passion and that ambition that something is coming for me but I don't know what that is yeah you know what though the funny thing is I will tell you I was just I was editing something the other day and I was talking to one of my my co-workers I think you know him Luke and I said he said when did you yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so Luke used to assist our makeup artist when I was in a girl group years ago he is so I just he's the best ball of energy ever he is and he said to me like how did you how do you know how to edit it and I said oh like the like I've I had to teach myself you know film editing because I was I freelance as an editor and I freelance as a camera operator and I freelance as whatever so you learn these skills because while you're trying to figure out what you're going to be you learn all these skills all of a sudden but they all pay off so 100 % like all those things that I did or whatever it was all actually part of the path yeah I just didn't see the path when I was on it but I kept moving forward I didn't allow myself to get stuck and when I you know Or if I did, I would say, okay, I'm stuck.

11:55What's going on? I would dive deep. But all those things actually, if I look back, even if it was a really low period for a year or two, to be honest with you, it still was part of the path. Of course. And like you say, there'll be moments now that I'm sure happen that you really have to draw on something that happened back then. And because you've been through that situation, you can handle the next one better. It's all learning, isn't it? It's all learning along the way. let's now talk about 2009 because 2009 is is a very important year for you you launched a brand which is an interesting year because we're right in the middle of a recession yeah and that's something that obviously no one can ever predict I've spoke to people that launched and I did I launched my children's brand three weeks before we went into a global pandemic there are those moments that you gear up don't you you get yourself so excited and so ready for this massive milestone and then oops okay we didn't see that one coming good character building yeah yeah yeah it's good character building um I'm with you I got you how did that impact the very beginning of Sunday Riley so if we just go back a little bit from 2009 if we just go back I had my first child in 2006.

13:13And right before then, I was like, I really, I mean, like if you had seen the difference between 2009, no matter how hard 2009 was, you didn't see 2005. 2005 was a really tough year because I was going to have a baby. I knew I wasn't in the right place. I didn't know what to do. And that's when I actually started doing a lot of work on myself and started kind of looking for this kind of like spiritual energetic core and trying to figure out like, why am I even here? Like what's, what's going on in my life? What, why am I on the planet? Just those type of things. And so I started seeking out, um, different teachers, different forms of meditation, different forms of like kind of spiritual energetic work, which meant I spent a few years kind of diving into that.

13:52So whenever we launched in 2009 with significantly less money than we needed by like a factor of like a billion, um, and we launched and it was a recession. I was kind of like geared up for it I was like ready for the challenge I was a little I had become a fundamentally different person because the four years prior I had started the path the journey of becoming myself I had started to become her a different version of myself so the version of myself that I was before I made the choice to leave her behind right? the version I was when I was a kid I kept her the lull this like where I made a lot I chose to leave her behind I was like it's been amazing but now I'm fundamentally going to become another version of who I am and she's going to rise from today so when she hit adversity in 2009 she handled it well because that's who I chose to be did it suck yes it sucked yeah it was scary it was super super super scary at that point you know when you've hit the lowest of lows yeah but like it becomes almost like a measure on I made it through that.

15:01I can make you through anything. Yeah, exactly. Like I know what it's like to, you know, to like to have nothing and to and to feel like a failure. So that wasn't my my low point. I will tell you that it was actually a year after launching during a recession that was hard, because at this point, the company's still not a success. For certain, we we were only making like $2 a year at this point. I had two little kids now. Now I had a second kid. And I was I was in the middle of a divorce and you know I remember going to the grocery store like at 11 o 'clock at night because and I always tell the story but it's just it's such an ingrained part of my story to me it's it's one of those core memories like if you watch Inside Out like this one of those core memories that rolled down but it's stuck in my head but I would go to the grocery store late at night because that's when I could manage to go and I had my two daughters with me and they of course like one's tiny like a baby and the other's like four and they're throwing everything you know in the basket and so I go to check out it's not a lot and I go to pay for it with my debit card and it it it bounces like I don't have the money in it and my the bill was 110 I will never forget that amount I didn't have 110 to pay and so I was like trying to pull things out of the cart and you got a four-year-old and it's 11 o 'clock at night and she doesn't want the cookies taken out and she's like not the cookies and I was like girl it's the cookies I wear you know it's like And I was like, in the movies, there's always someone that's like, I got you.

16:25I got that. But in real life, they're not like that. In real life, they're like, come on. Who's coming to save me? Yeah, yeah. No, no. No one's coming for you. Like, in real life, there is no cavalry. It's you. Like, you are your own cavalry. And I, you know, and I thought, I will not be in this place again. I will not do this. I will, you know, I will continue to rise. This is a humbling moment again. and I will have money because in my bank account more than 110 where it's like you know and um and I will be able to pay for groceries and you know but that was now two years into the company being founded so people were like you know we were at Barney's which is a luxury department store but I couldn't pay for pay for groceries so I think there's this idea that it was at Barney's and it must have been so easy and I'm like no yeah it wasn't and it's and you know it's so refreshing to hear you being so honest about that because there is this idea of like you say that you're in a shiny department store and you are a founder and I think that you know we could the idea is we can all be a founder of anything right but it actually has to perform to be a success story what let's sort of go back a little bit to 2009 was the important year because that was when obviously it launched.

17:42It was a core memory. I had an inside out moment. But before getting there, you'd obviously, you've done the drama school. You'd had a little one, you know, you've been, you've left that version behind. What then inspires you to launch a skincare line? So, you know, I had tried different things. I was working on like a documentary. I was doing all these different things of like I was open to any avenue and I took my daughter we went to the beach one time and I was afraid that she was going to be like terrified of the ocean I love this kid this is a high maintenance kid though I mean there's always one yeah yeah yeah this one was high maintenance I would say you almost broke me um and so I was like I'm gonna take her to the water and she's gonna be terrified but I took her and I was holding her and she just was so in awe of it so it was this kind of like wow it was this peaceful moment that I didn't expect and in that moment I just looked at her and she was so happy and she wasn't screaming and I was like oh thank god never leave the water but I thought yeah I know it's like we were staying in the water and I thought I've I've got to change I've got to change for her because and by the way this idea of change is really pivotal against that core identity like it's on me to change I've got to change and so anytime someone has said to me in my life like you've got to change I'm always like that's that I know I know what that coding means yeah yeah but I just thought you know I I have to change and I decided like I there was a lot of things that I was like hiding in my from myself right things I didn't want to face things I was dreading and I thought you know things I didn't want to open my mail I didn't was like I probably owe tax money I was terrified of that like all these things and so I was like I'm gonna finish my taxes I'm gonna open everything like I'm gonna clean out all the cupboards that I've been avoiding I'm gonna like dive deep into those like dark cabinets of my soul that I had not wanted to face and so I started doing that and when I went back I made this list of all the things I was going to do that I'd been hiding or putting off for myself by the way and then it's and then after that I made a list of everything I was going to start doing so I went to the list of things I was gonna I was kind of hiding like one thing I would say is move my taxes and I paid my taxes and they owed me money and I was like I love this list yeah but these were the list of things that I was like putting off and some of it was like you know addressing the fact that I felt like this great sense of shame or addressing the fact that I you know you know just all these things that were holding me back and I also decided that I was going to go into my era of yes and I'm still in my era of yes but my era of yes where I was going to say I was going to ask for more and I was going to say yes to it no matter what it was and um and I just hoped it would be something good like I was but I was open for anything at that point you could have said to me you're going to own a gas station I would have been like own that's amazing like wow thank you it could have been anything and I would have run with it because it was the air of yes any opportunity was going to be a yes and someone that I knew came to me and said you're one of the smartest people I know I want to open a day spa and I was wondering if you'd want to be my business partner and I was like yes it was my area but also I felt like that was amazing like that was even that wouldn't have even been like come to me before And I said, yes.

20:56And so I was helping her put it together. And then I showed her, like, what you want is not going to happen with this investment, which I hated to say. But I was like, and she was like, well, what else could we do together? And I said to her, well, I don't know. What do you like? Because it's your money. And by the way, it wasn't a lot of money. And it is a lot, but it wasn't for a business. And she said, I don't know anything you want to do. Like, I believe in you. That had never been, like, you know. And I said, what about a skincare, like, line? Just something, like, really truncated and small and niche.

21:24like really hyper-focused on something like pregnant skin or something just very niche and hyper-focused just get something like off I didn't know how to do it and I was like but I I know I could I'd feel it like I feel in this my core and we could launch it and then it could sell and you know and that was kind of how it started I just kind of said yes and then I just you know went from there and I found um I found an amazing amazing amazing mentor in cosmetic formulation in chemistry. And I would always studying it on my own anyhow. And he said to me, you're unusually gifted in this. And I was like, really?

22:00And he was like, yeah. He was like, you're really, he's like, you have an innate understanding for it. That's like, you know, you didn't have to go to like and get a PhD. He's like, you have an innate understanding for it that I've only seen, you know, once in my life. And he was an older man. And he said, you're crazy if you let this go. And so I just thought, well, that was my era of yes, right? So I'm going to keep saying, I'm going to keep following these breadcrumbs to the light is what I called it like breadcrumbs like anytime someone say would you ever consider this or you have a town this I was like that's my breadcrumb to the light I'm supposed to listen to that that's my path so don't follow that that's a distraction I'm going to keep following these breadcrumbs I'm going to find my yellow brick road I mean it's just it's so interesting and I'm obsessed with this anyway but when you open yourself up it's so crazy how many opportunities will fall in front of you it's almost like of course you've got to create your own luck and you've got to work towards that but like you say you're in the air of saying yes and then all of these opportunities yeah all these conversations like you say that probably wouldn't have happened before because you perhaps weren't in the you know the right space for it to yeah absolutely I mean someone could have been saying all these great things all along, I either didn't hear it or it didn't come to me.

23:11Once I got into the mindset of, I got out of the mindset of lack for a little bit and just kind of distanced myself from the shame that I felt, which I did feel, I didn't even realize how much I felt it, but distanced myself and said, actually, this is an open door. The door is open. You're in control. And like I said, I, and I, you know, and I would work on it. It's a daily practice to get there. It's not just like a, you know, I was born like that. You know, I was born confident, optimistic, but sometimes in life it can kind of get you down I practice still to this day I practice my mindset I practice being happy people like you're the happiest person I know I'm like yeah I practice it it's like it takes you yeah I practice it I so so you so you're sort of being mentored almost with what was what was the gentleman's name Clifton Sanders Clifton Sanders and then how is Sandi Riley born so we had it we had an amount of money it was about almost like a hundred to 150 000 which is i mean you know it's not not enough to really launch a brand and did you have to raise this or yes so yes and um so we had we had this amount of money and then i started i found this gentleman in dallas texas actually and he had worked for mary kay and he was a cosmetic chemist and he was very like very seasoned a great guy and had been you know he was in in his latter years and i think for him this was like like a great joy to have someone to to teach and I would fly up there several times a week and it was just it was wonderful so yeah then we kind of put some stuff together I put down these you know these ideas for products and um worked on them and then everything kind of you know I would say kind of went from there but not really because then it was like I couldn't get I couldn't get a single meeting and I couldn't afford you know packaging and I couldn't afford you know ingredients it was it was it was a challenge um to kind of even get something I was like well if there's going to be packaging it's going to have to be stock packaging because obviously I can't afford custom packaging yeah and so then I went to like every trade show I could get to and was like what is the best quality cheapest stock packaging I could get that was like amazing quality in this you know and I you know I had this vision and you know I put together products and the first products I put together to show retailers I made in a Vitamix I bought a Vitamix and I made it I got small amount of cosmetic chemicals yeah yeah I got the and we you know you make things in and you you know and they would say like you need to change this and we want so I just kind of like it was like okay I took it home put in my Vitamix added more you know oil to it and then like so I was like do you like it now like and I just thinking like I pray to God like it doesn't fall apart in the whatever because I was like just say yes and then I'll make it and I know yeah I'll figure it out yeah yeah just say yes and then I'll make it and I think sometimes it's that's the push you need it's happening now I've told them yes yeah I'm gonna deliver yeah regardless it's gonna happen yeah so would you at this point when you're like so in your infancy are you taking these meetings alone or have you got a support system how does it work or is it literally just you and your Vitamix so it's basically my Vitamix so I couldn't get a single meeting I tried everything I called everyone I called whatever but when you're starting something with a retailer yeah I couldn't get a meeting with a retailer.

26:22And this is before the direct-to-consumer boom. So it's like you couldn't just start like that. And this is before social media boom. So you couldn't be like, well, it's going to be an Instagram, TikTok first business and whatever. That wasn't an option. So becoming an influencer was an option because there were no influencers. That actually happened like a few years into the brand. So I called every retailer. I emailed them. I tried to stop by. I could not, you know, I couldn't get in. but I remembered a few years prior I had decided that I this is like prior prior that I had wanted to be try to be a screenwriter and I had written some scripts and I tried to get them into agents in Hollywood and I flew to LA and this is like when I was like 22 years old and I flew to LA and I couldn't even get into the buildings right like trying to get into the building you can't get I had this vision I'd be like I'd walk in I'd be like hello excuse me can I just get I have like this amazing thing.

27:19Like the movies. Yes, exactly, like the movies. And I couldn't get in. And I thought, hmm, there's got to be a way to get in. Like, I just, like, flew with my last dollar to LA. So I'm getting in. It's happening. And I hired a woman who did singing telegrams. I met her in a coffee shop. And I was like, because I was like, singing telegram can get in. And so I was like, can you deliver my script through, like, can you write a song and deliver it? And I gave her a list of agents. And so I got into like all the top, you know, agency. She got in because the singing telegram was like flower. Cause I watched the flower delivery guide.

27:53I was like, flowers can get in. And I was like, I can get in. I just have to be a flower. And I was like, how do I become a flower? Singing telegram. So she delivered it and whatever. And I remember it obviously didn't become a movie. This would be a different podcast. But I remember one of those agents called me and she left a voicemail and she said, I'm not going to do your movie. And she said, keep doing this keep like keep doing things like this and she's like it will happen it's gonna happen she's like you gotta think like this she's like in my entire career no one has ever done something like this to get to me and I thought you know I'm in the same situation I was now we're now we're in skincare I'm like same situation I was at 22 I had no contacts at 22 but I got into one of the top you know people through a singing telegram I gotta do the same thing so how am I going to get their attention I was like I got to get someone else to take me in so I found a PR firm that was an independent PR firm that represented brands that were at Barney's and other things like that but not like not like the biggest brands but I was like okay and so I went because I thought I bet you money she knows these buyers and I bet you they'll take her phone call and I bet you so I went to several someone said like please go away but I went to her and I said to her um I will I will pay you like I will I will pay you for a meeting I will pay you for a meeting but I will pay you more if we get the contract and I was like and then I promise you that I will contract with you for this amount of time and we will become something together and she kind of looked at me I think she thought well you know why not just enough that you can't really turn down yeah and so she said I'll try and get you the meetings and she's like it's your product you've got to sell it and she said but and she did try the product she's like I like you she was like I think you you can do it and she was like so let's try and so she made the calls a lot of them were known but she got us into Barney's and I walked in and you know they were like maybe come back every time they'd say come back I'm thinking like you don't get it like I don't have enough money to come back this isn't come back yeah I'm like how do I come back like I had a kid I'm like how do I even get a babysitter when people tell me they're like I can't get a babysitter I'm like I know what you're talking about.

30:02I know that feeling, yeah. And so, but Henry Bendles, which is non-existent anymore, had said yes as well. Right. They gave us a July launch date. I arrived July 1 to hire someone for the counter. We hadn't built it out yet. I didn't really. And the buyer told me, I've got really bad news. We never submitted your paperwork correctly. No. So we're going to have to start again. So I didn't have Bendles. I had nothing. We're down to zero dollars in the bank. And so I turned to the PR person and I said, we've got to get back into Barney's. And I cannot walk out. I cannot walk out without a yes. This is like, this is it.

30:37This is my like eight mile moment. This is it. And I said, I don't know what I'm going to have to do. And I said, there is no way. I'm just letting you know that I'm walking out without a contract. And so we walked into this Barney's thing and this girl walks in. She's got literally leaves in her hair. And I was like, what's going on with you? She said, I wrote a mail. Like long story. Like she was like, she came in frazzled is my point. and I was like this is not the start of my moment I was like this is where she's like lady like I and somehow I just said I was like you just have to say yes you just have to you have to say yes and um you know and she said I'll give you three stores and then that was it but then then I had to like figure out how to get inventory there but yeah yeah but it was the yes I needed it was the yes and that was it I never thought like I have a yesterday but tomorrow is going to be impossible I just thought that's all I need to do is just, you know, live to fight another day.

31:30Just live to fight one more day. And tomorrow I'll go to battle again. Then I have another battle tomorrow. Just live to fight one more day. That's it. And those three stores at that time is like, okay, yes, this is the, this is the break I need. I can do something. Yeah. Of course. And then obviously we know, you know, with three stores also comes, you know, three lots of bills and invoices that you need to meet to have a store fit out. and everything else that comes with it right it's not like absolutely it was like and then it was staffing and I was like we can't afford anything and now it's like all this and all of a sudden it was like you're gonna need an extra two hundred thousand dollars and I was like I don't have two hundred thousand dollars people said we'll get it from friends and family and I was like yeah I don't have friends and family that hold on to two hundred thousand dollars to give to an extreme startup like that was like it was it was really challenging and a bank's not going to give it to you based on what based on my resume yeah yeah yeah I mean it's it's tough and I we talk about this a lot how tough it is for women to get funding you know just generally across the board and we're looking at like two percent I think particularly in tech that women receive two percent of funding which is just absolutely wild so like you say when the odds are stacked against you yeah being female also doesn't help no it's not on your court so you get into Barney's you make the stores happen yeah and I can imagine the pressure at that point because you've got this opportunity you don't want to let go but you've also got to be able to raise the money to yeah perform yeah and then they they placed us I mean I was super grateful but they placed us for it was holiday it was September and they placed us behind the Christmas gift wrap and the Christmas treat so you couldn't even see us so it's like the whole thing was like you gotta be kidding me so it was like a yes and then it was like she really meant that like I'm just I'm gonna give you three stores and this is your chance yeah she gave me like six months and said if you don't have these marks out.

33:22But it was, you know, it was enough. It was enough of a yes for me to say, I can do something with this. Yeah. You know, I can do something with it. And so I just, you know, I went to the store manager in LA and I said, who do you know that needs a shot that can't get a job? I don't want the traditional person. I don't want the whatever. I want someone who's going to be crazy. I need someone who's like charming and crazy. Yeah. You know, like who's uninhibited. And she said, I have just the person for you she was like she had worked here she took time off to go on a cruise ship she was looking at a job and so this beautiful girl and I said to her I want you to go because they had a rule that you had to stay at your counter but I was like if we stay at the counter we're done we're absolutely done positioning and you couldn't even see it yeah so I was like if we follow the rules we're again we're like the brand fold so I said to her you need to every single day be okay with waking up every single day and breaking every single rule and she was like gotcha oh that's my kind of girl yeah yeah and I said I want you to cross the room I want you to grab customers I want you to go into the shoe department with the bottle and be like can I sample this for you and we came up with this thing we called a shiatsu eye massage which we didn't even know how to do shiatsu but it was like I was like just put eye cream on everyone it feels great I was like everyone loves an eye cream yeah everyone loves an eye cream and so we just started selling you know the heck out of this eye cream and it was just like you know not not enough to like really pay the bills but enough to stay at the counter enough to then get nine doors plus their online presence.

34:45So it expanded. So exactly. And like you say, you needed that yes. Yeah. And you made that yes work. Yeah. But if we had followed the rules at any step along the way, it absolutely would have folded. See, that is so interesting, isn't it? Sometimes rules are meant to be broken. I think so. And then so what happens from that point? then you get nine stores and then let's sort of talk about the rollout from there and the kind of the trajectory of the business and how is the business we know now yeah so I you know I I thought we need to be associated or aligned with something bigger than us because it's a brand new brand and you know up Europe against brands that are iconic they've been around for you know all these years.

35:32They're legends and no one's heard of us. So I was like, we need to have an association that's bigger than us. So at that time there were no skincare brands working fashion week. And I was like, why don't we just call some of the brands up and say to them that we'll do the facials backstage. No one was doing facials backstage. It was just hair, makeup, nails, right? And I was like, why not do facials? You know, that sounds great. And then we could say, we did this show or we did that show and it's a bigger brand than us. And we get the association and we can, you know, figure it out. So we started doing facials back because brands were like, will you give us some money?

36:03And I was like, yeah, we have no money, but we'll find some money to give to you. So we started doing, and we did like the Stella McCartney show. We did, you know, all these different, and so we got that press. All of a sudden, the brand name was associated with Stella McCartney. Of course. Right? And so we would run with that. And then I had a great idea, which was, by the way, it did not work, but these things have a way. I had this great idea after doing that. I was like, why don't we do a makeup line? like I can see all these makeup artists and by the way by doing fashion week we were using good jeans on the models and I remember the makeup artist coming to me and saying what did you put on their skin and I was like why I was like do you like it do we love it before I know I know I know I was like I was like this is a really this is an answer to depend on question so she was like because their skin is so much smoother makeup's going on so much faster so makeup artists started spreading word of mouth about the skincare brand.

36:57So it started to take off in little bits. We still could barely make payroll. We still could barely make anything. So even with this, we're still barely making it because your inventory costs are higher now. Everything. So it's just, even though we were making more money, we were still spending more money than we were making. But I thought, why don't we do makeup? Because we've got this makeup artists association. We could do, I was like, I could, so I, I did raise money for this. It was$500 ,000, which was an inordinate amount of money. It still is a huge amount. But at that time, it was beyond what I could even comprehend.

37:29And I sunk it into a makeup line, like custom packaging, everything. I hired the best packaging engineers. They had worked on everything. They'd worked on like, you know, blah, blah, blah. Everything you can imagine was right. It was the perfect everything. Colors were great. Like 30 eyeshadows, 30 lipsticks, you know, like 24 foundations. Like it was insane. it was insane it was insane because it insanely failed but that makeup line actually got the interest of Sephora oh so I first started talking to Sephora through this makeup line which by the way only ever really existed at Barney's because we did launch it it's just it failed um so we got the interest of Sephora because we did a few shows with the makeup line and they're like that's kind of interesting like an indie makeup line they weren't really super interested in skincare even though skincare was what was funding everything and I did try to talk to the skincare buyers I'm like well maybe maybe but all of a sudden I was like we were going bankrupt really fast right because as much as there was this promise and we were doing these shows and like whatever retailers were becoming interested we could not afford the inventory cost of the makeup line so what sounded great all of a sudden like we were used to making 10 SKUs now we're making over 100 SKUs and it was like every time like we'd like run out of this blush and be like oh it's a sold out and I'd be like sold out like we can't afford to remake it like that's not great I'm like can't they buy the other color I'm like branch out so because there's you know and I think naively and I remember this when creating my brand that you when something's a sellout you're like okay you know yeah you know the public perception about which is great there's an appetite for that product but you then need the cash flow to be able to place another order that's the problem and it's like all the it's the pigments it's the packaging it's whatever and so it sounds great but then the minute it sells out you have to have the cash infusion back in I was like oh we're we're dead in six months here like we're gonna like we can't we're done so I actually went to Sephora and was like can we bait and switch like can we can we can we launch with the skincare line because we're gonna we're gonna get rid of the makeup line if they had said no I don't know what we would have done I probably would have I would have survived and thrown You would have found a way.

39:41That's one thing we learned. But they said yes. And so we launched with a skincare line at Sephora and then we basically phased makeup line out. And it was, I would say, it was the most expensive entry into a retailer in the history of brands, but it was completely lost. It never took off. And so RIP. RIP. RIP. However, it's part of your story. It's part of the story. And sometimes you do have to try these things to know what then doesn't perform and what does. Well, and I think you have to know what I've always kind of picked up on is you have to know when to pivot and you have to know when to put something to bed and say, you know, I believed in this, but I'm not going to go down for it.

40:17Like I believed in that, you know, that formula. I'm not going to go down for it. People don't like it. I believed in the makeup line. I still think it's one of the best makeup lines I've ever seen, but I'm not going to go down for it. Like I'm going to survive. So I will bury that. Yeah. And that's such a that takes a lot of kind of self-control and a lot. It's a lot of discipline and a lot of that because it can dent the ego. right yeah I so when when the line then goes into Sephora you launch with the skincare does is that instantly a success absolutely not absolutely not wild failure again welcome welcome to the story of my podcast so the pivots and the kind of twists and turns are exactly what makes this yeah what it is so Barney's had set the price point so moisturizer was like 225 um all these different things and it was set during a time you know that while it was a recession it was also a time of like high luxury so it was like a weird window that 2008 2009 window but now it's a few years later and 225 for a moisturizer is literally insane and I still agree with that it is insane and I had not wanted those prices but Barneys had said if you don't price it at this you cannot be in our store so obviously we say yes we need stores so we're in Sephora and it's not working and there's no way like it was just it was not going to work and so I said to Sephora we want to reduce our prices and they said sure to what and they were thinking I think like five dollars and I was like I want to have like a 65 dollar moisturizer they were like you can't go from 225 to 65 you can't and you know there's been no brand in the history of beauty that's dropped almost 200 dollars per skew like you you literally can't do it you're gonna die it's gonna be like instant death of the brand and I would say like I thought to myself I'm either gonna die immediately in battle or I'm just going to like die really slowly over the course of nine months.

42:08But again, here we were at this bankruptcy moment, which I'd only ever experienced this moment. And I thought I'd rather die today and just make it swift than die slowly because I was afraid to do what I actually thought was fundamentally right. Because I also, not only did I think it was right for the brand, I thought it was right for the customer. I didn't think that price point was right. I didn't think it was right in my gut. It had not won for us. We had done okay. And I thought we're going to reduce it. because it was also the only chance that we would win. So I was like, yeah, we might fold, but we might win.

42:36It was our only chance. But I thought, I'm going to do every formula over again. So we really basically, with almost every formula, started from scratch. We discontinued the moisturizers that we had. We discontinued all these things. And the only things that I kept were good jeans. I think I'd had Juno at that point. And it was a different iteration of a cleanser. But that was it. So we kind of slowly started bringing everything new out and phasing out all those other products because I was like, it's just a weird thing for me that, you know, all these different price points. So we started phasing in basically a new line.

43:08And that's when we started to get some traction. But it wasn't a lot of traction. But it was better than zero. No, we were like making$3. So, you know, it's like, again, but we couldn't, I still had nothing. Personally, because any money that I would make, I would have to put back in a payroll to pay for everyone else to be there, which was only like five people. But still, like, that's what we had to do. It was still a pressure. it's still the team that you're responsible for right yeah and then you know we had these 19 doors and Sephora though and I thought to myself I'm going to make something of this and we're going to be in full fleet and it's going to be around the world and it's going to be amazing and instead they called me and said um we're really sorry but the mapping team forgot that your brand existed and we didn't put you on the new map for, you know, 18 of those doors.

43:59And so the last one, they said, we caught it and you can keep that door. So now I've gone down to one store, which means, again, we're going to go bankrupt. And I thought, okay. And I said, is there any way you can change the map? Is there anything you can do? And she was like, no. Like once the map is set, it's set because we've put all the other brands in. We can't do it. These people we've ordered, we can't do it. And so again, with my last like, you know, bit of money I had, I flew out. And I just kind of like, again, was in that moment of like begging for your life. Like, you got to trust me.

44:29If you stick with me, like I promise you, I will take it across the finish line. And I, you know, I negotiated with her. And she was funny because this woman, her name is Priya. She said to me, you're in no power, no position to negotiate. I was like, so you say. But I was like, yeah. And I was like, if that one store that we're left in, if I can make us the number one brand in that store will you give me 100 doors back and where are you at the time until you know in in number 55 right wow yeah okay yeah and um and she said well a you're not going to do it for a lot of reasons she was like one no one in the history of beauty has ever gone from 55 to one in three months two it's the not only is it the store that you're left with but just for like reference sake it's the number one skincare store in america for sephora which is the number one beauty retailer at the time.

45:16And she said, you, you, it's impossible. That spot is owned by LVMH. It's owned by L 'Oreal. It's owned by, you know, I said, it's owned by these, you, you will not get it. And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I do get it, if I do, all I'm looking for is a yes, right? All I'm looking for is another breadcrumb. If I do get it, will I get 100 stores? And she said, 50, but it's impossible. And I was like, improbable is what I heard you say. So I was like, so we're confirming and I'll get 50. And she said, yeah. And I always said, but her parting words were, but you have to change. And I always said that word, like when people say to me or when I said to myself, you have to change.

45:51And I thought, yeah, she's right. Like, this is my fault. And so I just learned everything I could learn about Sephora, like what it's like to live and breathe it. Because what I have learned along the way is if you want to be successful at something, you have to live it, breathe it, taste it, touch it. Like you have to fundamentally get it. And I only knew what it was like to be on the brand side and to struggle and to pivot and to always be in survival mode but I didn't know what it was like to be a winning brand at Sephora. I was only ever thinking as a struggling brand yeah not as a winning brand I was thinking from my consciousness not from theirs so I was like now wait a minute now I'm going to pivot my consciousness over here what is it like to be in that store because I can staff it all I want but what is why would the Sephora person sell it for me why would someone from a makeup brand come over and be like oh let me introduce you to the skincare brand how am I going to get all these people to work energetically on my behalf what is it like to be a winner not a survivor yes and so pivoting my my consciousness from being a survivor to being a winner so I was like so I have to learn it I have to live it I have to breathe it and through a lot and by doing a lot of change understanding the playing field we changed the way that we operated and we became number one in the three months yes oh my gosh I've got so many questions and we also at the same time we went on a road trip around America and went to every single district.

47:08At the time it was like 35 districts. Went to every single district, which was seven regions. Met with every single regional president or regional director, I think at the time it was called, all the district managers. And to convince them, even though we were not in their stores, to ask the commercial team at Sephora for us. So we were like, we are going to be the hottest brand in your region. You have to fundamentally ask. And we got these people to believe in us. So while we were trying to be number one in the store, we also went on this road trip and to every single all over America with no money, by the way.

47:43And it was like going over trying to. And I remember in New York, the regional director said, I don't meet with brands that aren't in my region and are only in one store in America. But they met with us. They did because I was like, yeah, you do. Well, the data doesn't lie. They can't not meet with you after. So, you know, I mean, I would love to know what the conversation looked like with Priya when she was, when you had gone from 55 to number one in three months. Well. And she said you couldn't. She's a tough woman. Like, she'll still say, like, I don't accept phone calls unless you're top 10.

48:12So, like, it doesn't matter. Like, she's tough. She's tough. And you win. You do something. And she's like, that's nice. She's like, there's always more to go. Even she must have been impressed with that. I hope so. I hope so. Like, I hope so. But, you know, she's certainly, like, I don't even know if she, like, realizes, like, how much of her conversation that she had with me really helped to guide me. But, you know, there was always, and then we had one other, there was a contest where the winner would win stores. So we went, you know, these, these three paths, but you know, the idea of saying no was impossible for me of them saying no.

48:44But I will tell you now that the brand is more established, you're still, what I've learned is you're still always in that position, right? That doesn't ever actually change. You're still always fighting for space. You're always fighting to win. There's always new people coming in you're fighting for customer and it's easy actually for me to say it's on me to do this right but to achieve through others and to say to people okay this is what I did now you we've also now we've all got to go on this road trip we've all got to do all these things they'd be like you know because like if you're wired to be an entrepreneur then it's simple and easy for you but a lot of people aren't wired like that they're wired for maintenance and execution and all these other beautiful qualities but you're I always find that this brand has still always been an entrepreneurial mode so it's like now how do we succeed how do I kind of make sure that this energy still flows through yeah and especially when you're the bigger the brand becomes you it's hard to be across every little detail the bigger you know the bigger it goes and to be across every single member of the team right when there's five of you and you're on that road trip together you're kind of in it together but keeping that kind of synergy and keeping that message flowing yeah whilst it grows is something that's hard well and everyone says they like entrepreneurial spirit but it's actually wildly uncomfortable yeah and you have to be you have to be comfortable in discomfort and you have to enjoy looking for things that are hard to find that aren't just there because they're not just going to be like the blah blah blah department handed this to you there is no blah blah blah department that's also you yeah or that's just joe pick up the phone and college I'd be like do you have this like can you can we make it yeah like it's always you're constantly in flux you're always like you're always hustling it's always a grind and everyone says I love a hustle I love a grind but actually some people fundamentally hate it and they hate it and I always say like if you don't like it you gotta be up front with me because I'm gonna know you know yeah this isn't the right place we gotta hustle we gotta grind yeah I mean it's do you know what I find interesting when you when you tell me the story of your earlier years and when you mentioned the story about you doing the fashion weeks and that's you know that kind of really sort of started that buzz within the makeup artists and having your name with yeah Stella McCartney or these big brands it goes back to what your aunt was teaching you yes the tennis yeah yeah do that because you're going to need the circles you're going to need that association it's kind of crazy how that has actually followed you absolutely fundamentally yes yeah like it's so within you I I mean it's so funny because I've got questions written down here that I think I'm going to ask before I meet guests I've not actually stuck to any of them because I'm so interested in finding out that's okay I love an organic conversation me too um and one of my questions is actually do you think the start and starting in like challenging situations and being I suppose constantly having to prove yourself at Barney's at Sephora do you think that taught you a lot of good lessons early on but it sounds like there's constantly been a string there's like a thread of lessons isn't there throughout the you know from the beginning to now yeah right I think you know someone said to me earlier this year they said you know I have two questions for you when did you know that you had made it and what does it feel like and I said I have no clue what that feels like because I have never had that epiphany but that's and nor do I seek it out by the way nor is that like my goal um that I that's you know I'd rather seek like wisdom that's interesting to me I'd rather seek like the like the meaning of the universe yeah I don't need to feel like I made it um and but even if I wanted to feel I wouldn't know what that's like because it's always it's it's never I never feel safe I never feel like it's a given I never feel like I always feel like it can be taken away.

52:38But I'm at I don't feel afraid of that, by the way. But I'm always aware of it. Let me say it like that. I'm always aware that, you know, you're just, you know, two steps away from things being taken away. So it keeps you on your toes. I don't take any of it for granted. So I'm always on my toes. What I do know is that when I have acted in fear, when I have connected to fear, I have always, always inevitably exercised poor judgment, because I was afraid and I did the wrong thing. When I just say, I'm just going to keep moving forward, you know, it's going to be fine. I don't connect. I'm like, I see you, fear.

53:14I feel you. I see you. Love you. I want to put you in this closet for a second. Just shut the door. Compartmentalize it out and be like, I'm not, you know, I get you, you're there. I don't like ignore it, but I just kind of compartmentalize it. I'm able to move forward a lot smoother. And I suppose it just always keeps you grateful. Like you say, if you live in a space where you know that like nothing's forever, yeah and this is all temporary the good and the bad yeah but actually it keeps you grounded in a in a grateful space it is now obviously a very different brand to being in one store yeah and being number one in that store but being in one store what is what what are the biggest differences you've noticed from being in that place and it being the kind of global juggernaut of a brand that it is today what's the difference to me

54:04um um you know what it doesn't feel that different to me to be honest with you um it doesn't feel that different to me it still feels the same I still have I still I still yeah it still feels the exact same to me I still have the same feeling like I gotta wake up I gotta grind I gotta hustle I still wake up every day excited every day I wake up excited like what's gonna be and I open my phone I'm like oh that's a lot of problems that's the first thing I'm like because I'm always like checking in with like the it's like an international team like oh they've been awake for seven hours and there's a lot of problems already yeah and I but I'm excited every single day every single day in the middle of I'm like I love this and then every single day when I go to bed I'm like oh that was a long one and I shut it down and every single day it's been the same and it's been consistently like that and what is your what does your day-to-day role look like now like what do I do for the brand like yeah like as in what what's your day-to-day routine if there is one yeah yeah so every day I get up around the same time around 6 30 start getting my kids ready for school and get them out by 7 30 also you can do a full day of work and that right there can be the toughest gig yeah yeah yeah it's hard because it's a lot of crazy hour in the morning I know I always say like I'm like you're amazing you're like you're all these things I love you good morning and then I'm like but you gotta get dressed I know I'm like what do you mean you can't find your dentist shoe where would you say it last there's only so many places take it off or like what do you mean you didn't do this so I get them out and then I always block out on my calendar between 7 a.m to 10 a.m obviously 30 minutes that I'm like getting kids out yeah but 7 to 10 a.m now I can give that to like if people have meetings I just block 7 to 10 a.m out every single morning though on my calendar because that's for me to prioritize myself one hour of that 7 to 10 a.m I just give to myself to do whatever I want to do I invest in myself whatever interests me I will not unless it's a real emergency I will not use it for work if it is okay fine other than that it's just for me it can be whatever I want I can watch you know Real Housewives or whatever I can do by myself you know like you know uninterrupted yeah I can do whatever I want I can work on writing a book I can like do my dueling always like I can do whatever I want I could blah blah blah so that's my one hour but then I have the other three hours within that four hour block to do whatever like independent work I need to do.

56:22So whatever that is, whatever I might be interested in, I'm like, oh, but I need to work on that. I need to finish this. And then from that point on, now I'm dedicated to everyone else in the company. Right. So from like, you know, let's say 10 to like theoretically six, but usually later, now I'm dedicated to you. So what do you guys need? What's going on? Let's jump into meetings. Let's talk. So whether it's on Teams back and forth via text or it's like video. So that's my dedication to them then I usually pull back I go on my super long walk I do my walking meditation I come back I eat and I pull my laptop out again now I'm with my kids and they're running around if I'm watching a really good show my laptop shuts if I don't like the show then like it stays open and I kind of do whatever that I need to do I might do sourcing somewhere internationally I might do whatever I want to do late at night but I like the way that you're you're well I I suppose you have to be, you're always on to a degree, but you take that time for yourself, which is so important for your headspace.

57:19And I think to make better decisions and to be a leader, that time for you is kind of priceless. Yeah. I always make time to go on this, like this epically long walk every day. Like I'm a big believer, like in like walking the earth, you know, like I make sure I walk, I listen to music for a little bit and then I do my walking meditation. That's a big deal. Nice. I love that. I love that because I think we don't talk about that enough as women as well that actually you can't fill everyone else's cup up if yours is if yours is empty because we have to as a mom as a you know as a business however that looks you're always having to pour out of yours and pour into others and you can't you have to keep filling yours up to be able to spare any yeah learning to prioritize myself as much as i prioritize my work and my children was that was maybe one of my biggest lessons as well that was a big deal well I don't think it's ever really glorified I think actually sacrifice is glorified like I sacrifice myself for this I sacrifice myself to this I'm fixing this I'm fixing that but actually saying like no I'm actually investing in myself not just through like shopping or purchasing but actually through time and through exploring what I want to do so I was like what do I want I was like I really want to go on that retreat I really want to focus on like this I really want to do this wellness thing I really want to do this like you know energy thing I really want to do these things that interest me and interest me alone and I'm going to invest in being and I always I really believe this I have to find myself interesting I think of myself as like the main character of my book right the main character of my story and I'm like am I bored by her is she boring does she talk about the same thing although does she have the same problem every day and she never did anything about it does she just sit in a room all day long on a desk I'm like she's so boring I would shut this book I'd be like god I'm like she has no character evolution she's completely flat like everything is the same so I'm always like do I interest myself and if I don't then I do something I don't care what it is I'll take a dance class I'll take an opera class cannot sing a note I don't care what I do I will like but I will always keep myself interested in myself I love that that is so it's such a good outlook yeah it's such a good Otherwise you're like, did I lead a boring life?

59:27Was this a boring year? Yeah. So I assess it like every day. I'm like, am I, you know, am I boring or am I interesting? And if I, yeah. And if I find myself interesting, I'm like, keep going. You got this. You're doing great. You're the main character. That was a page turner. You are the main character. Yeah. This week was a page turner. I'm like, you know, so it's like, what else can you do? Right. So I'm going to do our rocket round now. Amazing. So I ask each guest the same six questions. The first one is. Ready. I'm excited. Ready. The idea is we're quick fire. okay but let's you know we're right we've got a bit um what are do you believe the non-negotiables for launching a business the non-negotiables um realistically I found that the only real non-negotiable was my mindset that was it other thing everything else I would pivot and did pivot on the only thing that was a non-negotiable was like that I had to be in it into the very last minute until the very last like I thought even if it's a no I'm going to climb to the very last hill until I had the very last whatever is me like am I am I persistent that was the only non-negotiable everything else to be successful because remember I'd only ever really experienced at that point failure the only non-negotiable was me giving up I was not going to do that yeah and that is complete that's what's carried you to now when did you first realize that you truly launched um I guess I realized that we launched when we were at Barney's those three doors that we got um when did I ever feel like everything was going to be okay and that we're fine I've never felt that yeah yeah I love that answer we've not had that yet and that is no but it's so refreshing to hear because like you say you're aware that anything could change at any time yeah was there a moment though that you that you thought other than the Barneys because I know that was quite up front is there a moment that you thought okay we're really on to something here no no because no I believed in the products I believed in the brand but then we got into Sephora and then we had the Sephora issue and then we got into whatever and then we got and then we changed our product so it's like it's always like give and take give and take yeah I've never once thought But, well, now for sure.

1:01:41It's like, I've never felt that. But in anything in my life. Yeah. Like in a relationship or anything. You know, I've never thought, okay, well, now I can just relax. Yes. Now this is a given. I've never thought that. You know, never. I've never. It's almost that like, yeah, you don't ever feel like done. Yeah, I don't. Yeah. I don't feel like anything's ever a certainty except for my mindset. Yeah. I love that. you know what do people usually seek your advice or help for a lot of things actually um I think people seek my advice on medical things a lot actually because I'm pretty calm with it um I'm a I'm a like natural born researcher and so I in some of my spare time I talked about that I dedicate to myself I just research esoteric subjects and stuff so I can get really into it so I know a lot of weird facts sometimes but um people come to me for life advice I think relationship advice work advice I find that and I even think today like one of the things that I offer that's is is good is judgment yes yeah you're a good I can already tell you're a good person to have on speed dial yeah to give like an honest like what do you think about this yeah yeah I love that what brand do you wish that you'd founded

1:03:06none i don't i don't wish for something else than what i have and i wish for more of it i wish for more things but i don't look at something else and feel envy about that i think that's great like look i'm wearing these spank shoes and i sneak shoes sorry sorry like they found it spanks yeah i think they're great i have three pairs i have two more coming i don't wish i found it i think she's awesome for yeah founding it but i don't i think that's great but that's her achievement and I'm supporting it and I'll plug it because I think they're great and awesome but I don't wish I had found it because that's hers yeah yeah if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present who would it be um you know I would probably choose in a lot of ways you know my my the people I've already mentioned right now my grandmother my aunt or actually my mother who I came to appreciate her strength as time went on.

1:04:00She's one of the strongest people I know. But I would say my grandmother and my aunt were super fundamental to helping shape me from a female perspective. Really strong. You can so see that thread throughout. You really, really can. Yeah. I love that. And if you could trade one of your current skills for a superpower that would help your business, what would it be and why? Oh, I was like, invisibility. Sorry, but help the business. Sorry. I was like that could also be helpful yeah yeah okay a superpower that could help my business yeah well I would like to be like Dr. Strange or the Scarlet Witch but I'm a Marvel jockey like those would be my favorite things I don't want to trade anything to be it if I have to trade a skill don't worry we don't we won't make you trade if you could just have something extra that could help I would love to be I would love to be you know Wanda I would love to be a Scarlet Witch from marvel yeah i would like all powerful all power i mean like all powerful like is that like was that an option like it's an option i mean like i mean she could kind of do everything um but my second choice would be to be dr strange there you go yeah i like how he's like i love it i really love these answers these are the best yet amazing um and next i ask each one of our guests to leave a tip it's almost like a something that's tangible like a piece of advice that you would give to a listener looking to start their own business a lady looking to launch if there was something that you wish you knew way back when yeah what would that be um get enough money to keep you know whatever because you're probably going to continue to need money so figure out what that looks like and even if you don't get it all at once make sure there's ways that you can kind of get it as it goes on with certain markers and i'll give three things that yeah second thing is obviously like real persistence don't give up because it's about having that like winning mindset and just saying you know not not taking no for an answer but then i'm going to counter that with but also knowing when to pivot because there might be really really really great options but if you're if you're so if you're inflexible you may not see them so that's why i said like the era of yes like always be in the air of yes which means that you're willing to pivot so it's a balance between being able to pivot but also you know not giving up yeah and knowing when yeah to pivot on yeah exactly yeah yeah and being still I think a lot of times when you're starting something there's so much chaos and chaos has its own energy signature right and it's like a wave and it flows over you and you can get you know lost in that wave so when things are really chaotic I actually practice stillness so I'm like as chaotic as that is I am going to be extraordinarily still because if I get lost in that chaos then I will ultimately lose I'll drown right so just you've got to be still so like one meditation I do is I just imagine it like a river underneath me and then I imagine myself like above it seeing the river I'm like I see the river flowing beneath me but I am not in the river yeah yeah and that's just but I have to like I have to practice it yeah you're so right because it like you say when chaos meets chaos that's when you can spiral yeah what would dr strange say

1:07:20and then lastly i've loved this but i finish each episode by asking our guests how they spend their lunch hour so i'm so interested in we are ladies who launch but we're also ladies who lunch yeah why not and you know I'd like to know how you spend your lunch hour where are you who are you with and what are you eating so on a typical workday I eat at my desk in a meeting and I always tell people I'm sorry but I'm gonna eat while we're on this call and I eat something I ordered in or I grab something I typically work from home half the time and I do that because I gave myself those four hours right before that was independent but now from 10 o 'clock onward that's time to dedicate to other people so I might be drinking coffee I might be eating but I'm with you yeah I'm present because if I take off an hour to go eat lunch then that's an hour that I have to add on so no this is my time when I'm present for you I might be eating but let's keep I try to eat kind of politely but still it's like you know it's like yeah but and also it's your team's your team yeah I know I'm like you selected the lunch hour it's not my fault that I've chosen to eat a taco and that's messy would would a taco be your lunch of choice no if you could pick I do love a taco I do love taco but no I usually like a salad or something protein I'm also I'm I'm in my protein era so I'm trying to eat a lot of protein yeah it's really hard it's like it's again it's like I have to it's it's it's such a it's such a thing I keep boring my husband with it I'm like did you know how many grams of protein I know I'm like I'm at 74 grams but like I don't care I'm like who cares I care I care too tell me is it plant based or what how did you do it yeah thank you so much yes I've absolutely loved chatting to you this has been up there with me for me so thank you thank you I had such a great time thank you for the opportunity no I appreciate it I've loved that yay

1:09:23don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you don't miss out because next week we're going to talk to another incredible lady who launched. If like me, you're a watcher, follow us on YouTube and please don't forget to like and subscribe.