Ep 22: Elevating the business industry with Nilam Holmes

0:12This week we're bringing you something new that we're calling Lift off with. Now, in honour of National Small Business Week, I'm bringing you some of the best kept secrets who are perhaps earlier on in their journeys or really on their way to lift off. We're bringing you a new episode every single day to shine a spotlight on these incredible women that you might not have yet heard of. Right, so let's lift off with. Today, I'm joined by Neelam Holmes, the ultimate skin and beauty expert, the queen of flawless faces and pioneering treatments. Neelam has turned her passion for helping people feel confident in their skin into a powerhouse career, working with some of the world's biggest stars, launching breakthrough treatment, innovations and building a brand, boosting trust, transformation and real results.

0:54So let's find out why she's truly a lady who launched. Right, before we get into it, if you like this episode, which I know you get it, please don't forget to like and subscribe and to share it to your group chat. I'm so excited that we're doing this. I love it when I get to talk to people that I know because I've known you. How long have I known you for now? God, probably, I think I was, I just got married. So it's got to be over 15 years. 16, 17 years? Yes, yes. Oh my, yeah, because I've been with Marvin 16 years almost. And I think that's why. You were already with Marvin. Was I? Yeah, it must be 17 years.

1:33I mean, well, so there we go. That's also a scary point in life when you can say that you've known someone like in double digits. I mean, literally. I've been hearing my parents talk like that and be like, you're so old. I know. Anything to make you feel old is that, definitely. But what I love is actually talking about you and your career and you've achieved so much, but from a real behind-the-scenes level. Like, you're a face that people don't know, but they would be so aware of you and probably have the treatment that you founded every couple of weeks and not know the person that created it, which I think is so, so interesting.

2:15Yeah, I think I always say to people, I'm not like the star, but we work on the stars. We, you know, are the people that create things behind the scenes. Yeah. Makes all the magic happen. Absolutely that. So let's sort of start for anyone that doesn't know you. Since for as long as I can remember, you have been dubbed the Queen of Brows. you've worked with like some of the biggest names across the world and we'll get on to you obviously founded HD Browse that's your method that's your technique we'll get on to all of that in a minute but how did your journey into beauty first begin? Oh my gosh I fell into the industry I actually never even planned to go into the beauty business I was at university and you know you don't really have any money yeah I'd had a scholarship to go to Buckingham University to do a degree in business and an international hotel management degree.

3:13It's like a new program. So needed money to buy my books and whatever I need, you know, getting in and out of uni. So I took a part-time job at a beauty salon, just doing reception. It was like a really old-fashioned salon. It had like toning tables, a sunbed, which I would never, you know, condone now. You advise everyone to do it. I know. And then we used to do things like body wrap. So I just worked there every night and every Saturday, all week. and then it got to a point where I was about to graduate and my my boss at the time she went oh Neelam I'm going to retire I don't really want this salon anymore she was a bit older she said I've met somebody I'm moving countries so I said oh no problem I'm going to graduate soon and then she went you can have the salon if you want it stop yeah so that's how I actually got my first salon she gave me the salon I bought it for a pound and then my sister was at beauty college so she was like you do the business stuff and I'll do all the beauty so we thought you know I was 20 she was 17 we thought we were great business women and I remember the first day we opened we took four pounds and then we had a bill of about 260 pounds it was a lawyer's sort of thing for the lease we went god it's not going to be as easy as we thought so I take a bit of work but that's literally how I got into it and then as I was in the business you know my sister was doing most of the treatment right we changed it around a bit put in a lot of beauty stuff um but she was doing all the work and I was literally turning on toning tables and answering the phone so I thought let me start doing stuff so I was always into brows waxing that kind of thing started doing those treatments and then um had a client come in a regular she said oh I found this machine I really want it done we looked into it it was about six grand at the time it was a face lifting type machine and I was like we can't really afford to get that at this stage and she said well what I'll do is I'll buy it and you can pay me back in treatments so I know so I had like lots of women helping me you know that's incredible get to it which was really I've never forget that either you know and that's happened twice with one with the um the facial machine and another time with the semi-permanent makeup stuff right that was another lady so they trusted you they wanted it at your salon but it wasn't something that you could or did provide so they helped you with it so you could perform the treatment that's it that is amazing I know so they bought the machine and then I that was one of the first treatments I learned it was the Casey and that was about 33 years ago I was one of the first to get it here so I did that day in day out working with skin then ended up sort of specializing in that got a passion for that we were always known for brows my sister and I um had a big client base come into us for that and then um yeah the skin thing I had bad skin actually at the time I had like acne right and all of this met a doctor um he helped me with my skin so then I kind of took those techniques he took me under his wing as my as my mentor and um I just sort of passed those things down to my clients and that's how I kind of got into the skin.

6:32I mean, when we're ever anywhere together and like our friends are sort of in one circle and we bump into you or we're hanging or we have lunch, I feel sorry for you because you're always that person that people go, Ni, just look at me a minute. What do you think I need to do? Do you think I need to do this? Do you think I should try this? You are so... But then equally, on the other hand, I can see when you're talking to me that you're redoing my face in your mind and my brows. You look perfect. Perfect, perfect. It's one of those things that is so, it's so interesting to me and I never knew that you kind of stumbled across this sort of via your sister having a passion, but also being given this opportunity because you're so knowledgeable.

7:18You're so, you are the go-to person. Like even if anyone's like, I want to try this thing, I've heard about this. I'm always like, let me just message me for you and see if it's any good or see if it's scary you're you're so in tune with like trend-led stuff the latest machine but also really sort of knowing what's a fad and what isn't do you know what i think it is i think because i didn't come up traditionally studied the whole route i've had to study all the all the way along you know my mentor was a doctor who's really strict he would always be like that's not good enough no that's wrong this is right you know and i feel like i've had to work so much harder to prove that you know I can do it I don't know and it sounds really stupid doesn't it because I do it day in day out but I still feel like I have that sort of still now yes still now really yeah because I mean I do everyone's faces you know I promise you there's not anybody that you and this is like globally like that Neelam hasn't really touched like you are your black book is beyond and the kind of network that you have is beyond.

8:31I want to sort of rewind because I know that your love for skin care and brows and everything, you know, that's where that was born. But I want to talk about founding your own business and how that looks because having a salon and obviously sort of, I suppose, inheriting that, which, and then obviously then you take that on and let that fly. But then launching a, what was then a service and product-based business, HD Browse. Now, I know that what is so interesting is we use the term HD Browse like just like a kind of... Hoover. Yes. Yes. Exactly that. Like, you wouldn't say, I'm going to get my eyebrows worked, I'm going to get my eyebrows spreaded, just I need to go and get my eyebrows HD'd.

9:19Like, which is so interesting. It become such a... and it is such a trusted part of people's beauty regime and the hd brows is essentially a method right yeah so it's a seven step yeah it was like a seven step method with products that kind of supported each step yes for the professional and then for the consumer at home if they were on a journey to maybe regrow their brows they would have products that would help that all along the way so that kind of came around like I never sat down and thought I'm gonna make this brand what you what happened I used to teach permanent makeup tattooing and I had a lot of clients come in I'd see 20 odd year old girls with no eyebrows over plucked brows oh gosh yeah we all did that at one point at college you're never really taught how to shape brows you're only taught how to remove hair yeah so and it's always that old-fashioned kind of here here here and a little bit like a tadpole yeah and it was 2009 that time and people would come in with little tadpoles or the little semi-circle brows and then you know I'd be teaching my students the tattooing they'd draw on some brows and I'd go look would you want that on your face is that the kind of shape you would want because that's going to be permanent and the students would go well I don't really know what shape to put on I don't really know brows you know so I thought right we need to teach brow shaping so that came around just for those students right I had other beauticians saying well I don't tattoo but can I do your course so it was me and my business partner at the time and she had the tattoo academy and I was a teacher for it you were the brow queen so we started off this brand um and then it became like really popular everyone wanted to do the course so they'd come on the course and they would go well um what do i use to wax and i go well you just go to the wholesaler and get your wax and in the end i thought well let's make our own wax that is that because i would blend lots of waxes to make the right formula so right now i'm going to get into making products so we'd make the things to you know the wax the potions and lotions you needed to soothe the skin prep the skin so that all became a thing and then if a client had to grow their brows we would say well well use this to make them grow you can get it in boots use this to fill them in you can fake it till you make it kind of thing the pencils get them in debonums you know yeah we would sort of send people elsewhere so I thought well why don't we make our own stuff and the customer yeah so it was very organic and I can honestly say I never sat down and made a plan of this is going to be the product I didn't even know the the term NPD till about five years in yeah we were just doing it and doing it and rushing and formulating but not having like sort of being reactive to what was needed or what you were using or what you were asking yeah literally people would ask for it we would make it it was never a big plan but eventually we kind of were growing and growing really quickly we had academies scotland ireland like two in the south of england we had we opened one in russia india so it was getting to be worldwide um so then we decided to actually structure properly and it did change the business you know but i'm very proud of how far it went gosh like for something that is so now is such a given like you could go for a blow dry you can go for it to get your eyebrows HD'd, like that technique is so, like it's so something to be proud of.

13:07Like that was you. Like you're the first person that taught me that actually your eyebrows frame your face. Do you remember when I met you? Yeah. And you had the little, little, little eyebrows. And I was like, no, come on, we need the big brows. And now because of you, I basically rarely get them done because I've like taught myself just to leave the hair. I felt like you had to overdo them. Yeah, 100%. Years ago, people just attacked them too much. But what I found after we'd launched, it went a bit crazy where people misunderstood the term HD brows and they ended up with these massive thick eyebrows.

13:44It went a bit wrong. And remember, we were teaching a service. So how do you teach 100-odd people a week how to do brows perfectly? So that's why the seven step, it was a set method. it was a set formula like a a set map that you put on the brow to get the best shape right taking into account like what the client wanted yes but then that was really hard to teach well also i think how do you police that and if somebody's using your your brand name yeah and saying that's a service they do but then it's not how you would do it's quite hard to yeah keep up and police that constantly isn't it we did in the end when we could afford to we had like literally a a brand protection officer right and we used to send out about 60 infringement letters a week really yeah with people who would say well i do hd brows it's just this it's just that you know it's just a wax it's just a so-and-so and technically it was but people didn't get that it was a brand because it was the first brand yeah of course yeah which is quite it's actually quite an interesting point because if somebody was straight up selling, I don't know, this, and this is what HD Browse is, that is an easier thing to please.

15:03But for somebody to say, I do this, this is a service. I suppose it's like if you are a nail tech and that's trained and you work with a certain product, but you haven't actually been trained in that product, it's quite a hard thing to control, isn't it? It was so hard at the time. And then people would have, we would see, would have a lot of complaints, you know somebody was expecting this work when remember the art the person creating it is an artist everyone has a different vision don't they so someone was expecting that on the from the poster and they were getting something different and that was hard in itself so but it's all about the education the training um at the time I was really I couldn't let it I couldn't take my eyes off of it yes and I was forever training my trainers and I had a team of about 60 of them but it was so good everyone was so passionate at the time to do a good job and pass that knowledge down yeah and I think that's the key is you want if you're going to teach somebody you have to expect that they're going to be better than you because that's what you want and a lot of people don't like to do that yeah but that's the strength of the brand isn't it of course of course because I know now that you've parted ways with your then business partner what how did that then look like because obviously you're part of something that is sort of taking over as it were and you there's a lot of strings to your bow as in like I know how much you love being hands-on with skin and treatment and I suppose constantly policing a brand when you are so service-based naturally and being in front of people and giving those treatments and seeing those kind of results is something that you enjoy it I suppose it can be really distracting when something quite noisy is happening at the same time because you sort of got to pick which lane that you take I I was just trying to juggle everything at the time I had my salon I had the HD browse business we had 11 ,000 salons trained at that point there was a lot of things to manage I had 150 staff in the company um and I was literally on the phone to everybody all the time um my business partner had her own businesses as well but I was the one face the face of the brand I was on them you know in I was what I would say is I was in the brand too much to be on the brand so there was a lot of there were a lot of mistakes being made um you know which I've learned a lot from now um I was trying to manage everything um I was doing all the back then we didn't have the social media like we have now so I was trying to get as many celebrities wearing HD brows yeah so I was running out doing that but while I was going out doing that the celebrity would be like oh can I get my face done my facial so I was spending so much time doing that PR side of it yeah and we would get really good never had a PR agency but we'd get really good press coverage and everything which everyone benefited from but I was really struggling to juggle both well the overwork like that's where you've got to be so careful when it comes to like burnout and working yourself into a frenzy yeah and of course that's such a big part of you and what you've created is something so strong but actually yeah it was a there was a lot of sacrifices yeah you know you'll remember pete and i were trying to um have a baby and i remember having ivf doing an egg transfer and then the doctor's like you must go and rest now and then there was a problem in my head office which was in leeds and i'm in London and I'm like okay and I'm at home and I'm like I just need to go to Leeds and I remember doing that and obviously our IVF journey wasn't successful which I'm we're fine with now but I do look back and think do you know what was I thinking because I and I think but I think a lot of people do and I think I've spoke about this on this podcast a lot you know it's there is always some sort of it's like the trade-offs like you there's certain you know there's think about the sort of and we're better at this now but think about the parties or the birthdays or the lunches or the moments with friends and family that you miss because i've just got to do i've just when actually when you when it's all said and done you look back like if i didn't make that thing it would have been all right but actually sometimes life gets lost when you're so tunnel vision with your career and but I think it's so it's easy to look back and say that but when I am so passionate about my career too so it doesn't at the time seem like such a chore because it's natural it was natural for you to get in that car and go to Leeds because that's what you had to deal with but it was my baby yeah and I love I love my job I still love my job and I want I I want everyone to do well and I want my clients to look amazing and feel amazing.

20:17And you know, who doesn't love that praise of, Oh, I felt great after you saw me or, you know, and those results are so rewarding. Like I, you know, everything's confidential, but I know people that you've worked on and I've even just seeing like from afar, knowing what they look like before and then seeing them now and thinking, Oh my gosh. I know I have all these. it's funny because I get like testimonials almost like you like it's crazy if only I could say you know people send me videos and they go oh have you seen this person's had a facelift and I'm like oh really you know and I know they haven't you know because your hands have been on them you know but um yeah it's it's just really nice to have that um but you know I'm I'm not I don't have hd brows anymore um because you know what happened it grew very very fast it was like this monster it was rapid and we just couldn't feed it enough all the time and you know we were growing and growing like I say I was in the business rather than on the business a lot of costly mistakes um we weren't seeing certain things that were happening in the company and you know things do happen that negative things can happen in the business and we ended up in this sort of financial situation where even though we were taking a lot of money we were making a lot of money there was some big accounting mistakes we call them accounting mistakes happening and um it kind of really shook the company and it got to this point where we had to find a lot of money very quickly to kind of save the business and we couldn't understand why this was happening we're like well there's money there we're making a lot of customers we're making money but it was just this particular situation um which I still can't even talk about legally you know but um we had to make a lot of money quickly to save the company and what was lovely all my team was so passionate um and but it got to a point where we had to make a decision where we needed an investor right and um my business partner had one vision for the brand which was more to stick to the professional side of things teaching people doing all of that and I wanted to I was getting calls from selfridges and retailers and everything wanting to take that more product base yeah and we had I felt like we had a lot of faces by that time to help us so um you know it just got to this point I wanted to go down that uh consumer route yeah she wanted to go down the professional route and we decided to part ways yeah and I think it's kind of like that is like the grown-up thing to do when you know you're like into and it's really hard when two people have come together and it was like her professional side but that was your method and what you know however you want to put it but two people have come together but then with the same vision but then you have different yeah you know it's not about who wins it's about sort of being respectful and knowing that you're on a different path now and that's all right yeah I mean it took me a long time when I left I just felt like something had been ripped yeah away because it becomes it's an extension of you and that was like when I think HD Braille's I will always thank you but it is almost like and it's so interesting when we um when I sat down with Jo Malone she was saying the day that she walked away from joe in london she didn't know she was anymore and it was almost like grieving that old person then you know a few years later when she could do something because obviously you have that kind of non-compete agreement joe loves was then born and she sort of found herself all over again but walking away from something that is you she was like i didn't know what to do i didn't know who i was what i did without that well i i was i mean it's arrogant now i think of it but I was like well how would it work without me yeah it wouldn't work without me it's me it is me it's my baby I's only only I could run it and so when I left I remember I went to LA a friend of mine was working in America doing like Kardashians and everybody and he was like come over here come and do some of my clients and I kind of went to LA to lick my wounds because I'd left the brand I'd put out a statement for it and I remember being at the airport this day and I went to buy some lipsticks I was going to do somebody's makeup out there and this girl went I'm not being funny but aren't you about to launch all your own and I was like oh I didn't know what to say I was almost too embarrassed to admit that I wasn't at the brand anymore right and I was like oh yeah yeah made a bit of an excuse but it took me a long time to be able to speak about it you know positively Yeah, and sort of kind of acknowledge how successful that was and what a big thing that was that you built that you're no longer now not a part of, rather than feeling like you should be in some kind of weird way.

25:31Yeah, and I was worried. Even though that's what you've decided. Yeah, and I actually thought at some point I'm going to get it back. I'm going to get this brand back. Really? I thought that for a couple of years. I had a non-compete and I'd had a lot of new product development ready. um so I was like no I'll get this brand back at some point um and I had all these plans and eventually I started a different brand so I took all these products all the ideas made a new brand I think it was just something I had to get out of my system like yeah this kind of unfinished business yeah um but I was very sad at walking away I was annoyed with myself at walking away I the mistake biggest mistake I made was I kept putting everything back into the business and instead of kind of taking some financial yes gain away from it and building a nest egg so I had a rainy day I kept just plowing everything back in right so when I did leave I didn't have anything I just started again so that was seven eight years ago and I had to start from scratch again I'd put my clinic into the business because we were going to be doing franchises of the HD stores right so it was going to be the model so I got that back out and kind of started from scratch again and I thought what's the thing that's going to make me the most money the quickest and it was my services and I had a non-compete with the brows so I thought right let me get back into that and the probably the best thing that happened to me now that is losing that brand because I did go to LA I had more time to nurture all those clients that I was just fleeting in and out of all the time and you know built my little black book really and now you kind of as we say treat anybody who's anybody and any ever and has a waiting list as long as you're on do you think like there are so many learnings in what in what you have said in that story and I think that you sometimes focus on like the glitz and they're like this big brand but actually like you say in hindsight now going back to everything you love doing it at the best of your belief because you have the time to focus on it walking away was actually the best thing that you could have done but at the time you can't see that and it's so I bet you wish that you had hindsight hindsight at the time because at the time it is everything it's sort of soul destroying when something isn't working out in the way that you want it to oh can you imagine if you've got your brand and you've got this vision for it or it's like a house isn't it and then somebody else moves into it and then they change the wallpaper and they change the furniture and then you're like why are they doing that I don't like that that's not the brand and it was really hard to watch it all but then I started another brand and it was great to start with but I launched during COVID like during the lockdown which um but it it was doing okay I don't have much time to spend on it yes and I'm making the decision now to kind of walk away from it because I have learned now that it's better to kind of identify when something isn't working so rather than keep plowing into it all the time I know that I can't commit to that brand enough yeah and do you know we spoke about this and I we hosted lunch not long ago and I was talking to Sarah Ashcroft who had a clothing brand and um she's now liquidated it and but lots of different and I think we're so in a place now where people talk about what doesn't work out as loudly as what does and I think it's so so important to just always be honest with that but also and we were having this bit it was so lovely we're having this big open conversation and there were a few people there Vanessa Kingory was one and Emma Greed was the other and we were in this conversation we were the three of us were talking to Sarah and we were saying, actually what's so important in life and men are a lot better at this, that actually we say to ourselves, this thing didn't work out.

29:58Not me. It wasn't like my, I messed this up and I didn't make this happen. I'm great. And I do X, Y, and Z really well. But actually this thing here, this business hasn't quite worked and I'm okay with that. this if a man was gonna it's so important that we do that more because we were saying like when men talk about it they say oh no i tried this thing and it wasn't it wasn't you know i moved on i'm on to the next thing but there's something with women that when we speak we really see that as a reflection on us like shame like a shame and a reflection on us not doing it in a in a way that we should have done and that's the reason it hasn't worked out rather than oh no that just didn't that's just a thing that's part it didn't happen that was a big thing for me and um you know because I felt embarrassed about everything I felt like a failure I would see everybody around me who looks like they're doing so well even when you said come and join you on the podcast today I was like my god I don't I'm not a successful businesswoman I don't know I it depends how you measure it doesn't it and I was like well what's anyone gonna hear that um I don't know if I've got much positive you know that is not true in the slightest you've built some incredible businesses is and you continue to do so like anybody that wants to work in the industry that you're in I see everyone the way they want to pick your brains and people aspire to have a career like you have but sometimes it's so hard to see that when you're in it and you're not sort of sat back yeah I don't see it myself I literally sometimes go oh my god I think sometimes I've got too many plates spinning so you never feel like you're winning at anything you're just so I feel like I'm surviving all the time you know and when I speak to I speak to people and they'll say oh what are you doing with your brand and I'm like you know what I'm going to close it and people like don't do that you're not a quitter and then you get that negative connotation to it people don't love change and they like to kind of they like they're happy with a certain version of you and knowing what you do but actually you have to do what makes you feel good and if you feel like you've given everything to something that now isn't serving you or itself in the best way yeah nobody knows better than you I think I've just learned a lot of things where now I wouldn't try and do it all by myself I've never had an investor yeah so even with the HD it was just my business partner and I and we we kind of fueled each other on enthusiasm but we made the money put it back in but times are different now and I just wish somebody had just said to me just take the money you know because it's not negative no people would offer it and I would almost see it like oh they're bailing me out or i would never see it as what does that mean what do they want in what do you want yeah yeah i was very nervous of people even with this new brand and i because of what happened with the hd brows i was like oh no i'm just gonna do it by myself i don't want a business partner yeah yeah because you sort of have your fingers but you want to do it differently but really i should if i'd have taken the investment i would have made much better decisions and more calculated.

33:06I would have had a better team. But it's all learnings. And there's no, like, I sat down with Trini and, you know, she started it, she started Trini London later. I can't remember how old she was when she started. She started to 53, that was it. Which is what I am now. So I'm like, oh. So this is my point. There's no, and also she's 53. This is the best advert for your skin services ever because please look at you. It's absolutely illegal. But that's exactly it. And she inspired me so much. We think we've got to have it sussed out at every little milestone. She was 53. She sold her house. She sold loads of clothes in her house and everything she owned to raise money.

33:47And then got investment after trying for so long. And then did it. And now look at what she's built. And that's like, I just think the world's our oyster. We just need to go a little bit easy on ourselves and know that everything is a lesson. Yeah, that's true. We do this thing, which I love. My life coach, Dior, who I'm obsessed with, did our first ever LaunchBox, and we talk about designing our future self. And we're calling it Set the Table. If we were going to sit down a year from now, how would you want the future Neelam to look? What would you want to have done differently, and what would you want the kind of present to be at that point?

34:34so if I could if I had if somebody said right you can start from scratch now what I would do is I would take an investor I would definitely take investment this time I would sit and make a proper business plan but with my own goals in mind as well because I think when you're happy and you're meeting your own goal not just the businesses I think the business is more successful getting that personal yeah and I think it's um the people I have around me as well I would I would make sure I've got the right people yeah you know which I feel like I've I've got but what would you what do you want the future you to look like so that was if you were to do a brand again but what if we sit down in a year's time what would you what do you want your reality to be do you want to be doing the same thing do you want to go after another brand I think oh gosh it's so hard I just you know what it's almost like I don't ever sit and think I feel like I've never got time to think so if I if I had that luxury I would say or maybe I'll make it happen after this you absolutely will girl I would say I would like to have a skincare brand because I've been working on formulas and things for a long time it's just my passion yes um I would like to have a skincare brand I would like to have a clinic my own space in London and perhaps I'm always getting asked to do pop-ups everywhere like New York LA wherever all over the world I would like to have something where I could have maybe a small pop-up here and there um all ties in with the skin line I think I would like to be a bit more content I'd like to feel less hectic yeah you know like more I'd like to have more brain space yeah I don't know I I think that because you're so fast-paced you think yeah yeah I'm so fast-paced all the time I'm very reactive I'm not very good at saying no so I think my future self needs to learn that for sure yeah um just be a bit more calm and collected it's so funny because you are actually such a calm person but your life isn't no but you are so calm and so chill but I think you're also because of the nature of what you do you're at the mercy of like so-and-so's flown in and they love you and they need you so you make it work and it's kind of it's hard for you to plan your own no I'm doing that tonight yeah somebody's only here for a few hours and then they've got this big event and then oh there's this movie on and that person needs me for that or there's this so I always go oh my god but they need me you know so I rush and leave everything but I just need to have it'd be nice for me to be a bit calmer to focus on that so I'm going to add a life coach to my table so when I first thought about that question I was like what does that mean yeah what does set the table mean well you've just done it girl you've just done it skincare line calmness yeah life coach yeah I've got a good life coach for you um and finally I ask everybody this I know that you run around like headless chicken most of the time but I like to know how people spend their lunch hour oh I don't get one I don't get a lunch hour oh my gosh I don't literally I'm I'm having sometimes my team will come in with a cup of tea and like some chocolate or something and i'll i'll literally drink it so say the client's got a mask and i'll just have to have a sip of it or i very rarely do that now i can't remember the last time i sat and had lunch oh my gosh it's so it's just erratic and crazy and all of that so grab and go grab and go what are we grabbing what are we grabbing yeah if you had to be like right i'm gonna quickly i can eat in the car on the way to your next client after this?

38:36My favourite food at the minute, I'd probably say something spicy, but maybe like a spicy sushi. Isn't it bad that when you said spicy, the first thing I thought of was a spicy margarita. Oh, God. Listen, there are days. It's been a day. There are days at work when I sit, and I'm not even really a drinker, am I? And I go, oh, I could murder a drinker. Murder a spicy margarita. I know. We should do that for lunch one day. But that's worrying at three o 'clock in the afternoon, isn't it? pray for us um thank you so much ni i've loved this i've loved talking to you you are brilliant and i definitely think skincare line is what is happening in the future this space if anyone needs to do a skincare line it's you like i am like if it's neither i send you all everything anyway i'm like is this good is that good i know i know it's time i literally i'm spending a lot of time so i've been to korea a few times i'm spending a lot of time because i i have the luxury of clients from all over the world yes so everyone tells me their secrets and their potions and i'm i'm like oh can i just have that can i take that and i'm looking into everything so i don't spend any time not thinking about skin or what's next because it's such a good thing to talk about isn't it and it's you that's what that's your buzz well we can't wait to see it thank you so much i love I love that.

40:06Don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you don't miss out because next time we're going to be joined by another incredible lady who launched. If like me you're a watcher then follow us on YouTube and please don't forget to like and subscribe.

40:29Thank you.