Ep 23: Redefining home styling with The Style Sisters

0:12This week we're bringing you something new that we're calling Lift off with. Now, in honour of National Small Business Week, I'm bringing you some of the best kept secrets who are perhaps earlier on in their journeys or really on their way to lift off. We're bringing you a new episode every single day to shine a spotlight on these incredible women that you might not have yet heard of. Right, so let's lift off with. Today, I'm joined by the Style Sisters. They are the ultimate dream team, the queens of karma cupboards and chaos control. Charlotte and Gemma have taken their passion for home styling and storage solutions.

0:46They help people to feel good in their space and in doing so they have built something really, really special. So let's find out why they are two incredible ladies who've launched. Right, before we get into it, if you like this episode, which I know you get it, please don't forget to like and subscribe and to share it to your group chat.

1:07I'm so excited that we're doing this because I feel like we don't get together outside of my house. which is so refreshing that we're here um i think it's always a good place to start with intros uh if anyone doesn't know you both already first of all where have you been um who are the style sisters and tell us about you both and how you met she do our thing do your thing this is like the girl band it's well rehearsed i'm charlotte and i'm jemma and together we're the style sisters i'm in um we're an organizing and interior styling duo yeah we are the best friends though we started off as friends 20 nearly 20 years ago now yeah so how does that happen because i know that i know you both and i know that you kind of together you're like organization queens but you have like different strengths that you pull to and i know you are obsessed with interiors you're obsessed with styling so like take it back how you met and what you were doing and how you knew this was needed so we were both young mums we both fell pregnant at 21 then we both reached out on facebook and we're like hi i've heard you're pregnant because we had no one else around us and it wasn't like instagram wasn't really a thing back then so we just kind of just reconnected we knew each other from sixth form at school and that was it we both had little baby boys six weeks apart and yeah but then we just become really good friends and then become like advocates for each other like I knew she was like Gem's amazing at fashion and styling she was always pushing me with my interiors and then yeah we just kind of Gemma had a little light bulb moment didn't you yeah well Charlotte was every time Charlotte used to do lashes yes I used to go around to Charlotte's to have my eyelashes done and every time I went the house would be different she would have restyled a room but oh my god Charlotte you're so good at all of this and she was getting married and she was doing all these little party favors I was like Charlotte you need to be doing something with interiors I at the time I'd opened a fashion boutique had sold it and was doing a lot of freelance styling and I just felt so creatively frustrated I know that Charlotte did as well and she wasn't using her skills to her potential um and I'd set up a business called Style Sister um literally I'd only been going for about two months and it was it was going well and I actually did your wardrobe and we went on a night out and over dinner I was like we should definitely just blend our skills and kind of offer it to the whole house you do your interiors we can organize wardrobes do a bit of stuff a bit of like Trini and Susanna back in the day and kind of took it from there and it just went wild Charlotte was amazing and sort of pushed us to do a photo shoot in the get-go and sort of transformed it to the style sisters that actually being almost like a branding tool as well so i we met in a really kind of and i kind of love this because it shows your like drive and your tenacity and like that you're ambitious with it like i remember being in a nail shop yeah this is when i lived in essex and getting my nails done this sounds i do more than get my nails done i promise but i'm very obsessed this is my house um and I remember you come up to me and said I've got this thing and yeah we should come over and I was like oh my god that sounds really nice great and then I sort of as these things do the idea went out of my brain and then I remember really seeing you both pop up on social media yeah yes at the time you had like the board that's like your house has been It was compulsory.

4:43We were like, have a picture with us with our board. We love the board. We love the board. But then slowly, slowly, it's almost like, I don't know if anybody had really, there'd not really been that light bulb for anybody that you actually thought you could have help in the house in that way. No one was really... Nobody. You're the first people that I know that were doing it. People that we all were. We'd say, yeah, we're going to go around and organise people's wardrobe. Like, what, they can't do that themselves. oh my god they're so lazy we're like no no no we're not just organizing like we're giving them a way of life we're the way we it's like a logistic puzzle for us like it has to work for every single client like no wardrobe is the same no house is the same and no amount of space is the same sometimes you've got so much stuff and the smallest amount of space and i'm really particular i like you'd be able to see everything nothing can be hidden and it needs to be perfect and that is sometimes very hard when you're in a very small space and you've got a lot of stuff and i think hard to do it like it's hard to be i thought i was quite organized until i met you girls and i'm soon learned about myself but like even if you're ruthless i remember having this rule of like i've not worn it for a year yeah i'm not going to wear it again and like really try to like move it i would give it to my mom or give it to my sister or however that would look but it's it's a hard thing to push yourself to do it properly you can't do it on your own you can't i struggle on my own I have to think genuinely I'm a bit like even though we do it day in day out for people when you've got a sentimental attachment to things it makes things so much harder it's true the amount of times we've been in clients' houses and they're like oh I've already detoxed I don't need to and we're like should we just have a little go through and end up getting rid of five, six bags still and it's not because I mean you've experienced a detox with us it's not forced we don't put pressure on it's kind of really organic and natural it's like you hold everyone accountable and I think that's what you need when you're in that situation She's like, no, she's right.

6:36I need to get it, you know. Yeah. Do you know what? When we first started, we wanted to be them big sisters that come to your house. That's like the soul sisters. Come and hold your hand through the process. It's not intimidating. It can be scary letting people into your closed four walls of your home, going through the wardrobe, which is, and you find intimate things in wardrobe, you know, like it's no judgment. I bet you do. We've seen it all. There's no judgment. It's such a personal experience. Like we always think, how would I feel if I had someone in my home? Opening up your home is quite...

7:06And for hours. You know how long it takes. We're there morning till night. We see everything. And I think it's so important to have, one, that the client feels comfortable, and two, knowing that this is a safe space. This is a very trustworthy space. And I think that's probably how we've built our business to what it is now, because our clients trust us, they recommend. And I really do think you carved a space for yourselves that there was a massive gap there. Nobody was doing this. And I've even seen since the birth of you, there are so many people that do it now, which I mean, is I mean, it's really flattering to you ladies that actually like you've inspired people.

7:45And you must I assume you must get so many messages on socials and stuff. People saying, how did you start and what's your business model? A bit too much detail. But yeah, I can imagine that there's because there's so much inspo to be taken from you both. It's so nice that we've given, I mean, when we started, it was all about what can we do to utilise our skills to create a business when you haven't got any money to invest into a business. Like we didn't have money to go and set up a business from scratch. So it was kind of pulling on what we're good at, what we enjoy and creating a business out of that.

8:18And that's really weird. With little overheads as possible. Yeah, exactly. And that's where the idea came from. Because at the time, to be honest, this was supposed to be a stopgap business. this was going to be a little local thing just helping people locally we never ever expected it to become what it is now um or the route the end goal was not style sisters as such it's a lifestyle brand wasn't it i just saw ourselves having like the whole thing for your lifestyle like things for the home things for fashion and they're kind of building it like that but then the organizing just kind of it just took off and then we're traveling it did and i've even seen like and obviously i don't know how many years that we have worked together and i've known you now how six years yeah it must be it must be in fact it could possibly be more than that to be honest it was it was seven we're seven this month and it was pretty much at the beginning i saw you in the nail shop yeah i think you're one of our first clients yeah and marvin at the time was like oh i don't understand he didn't he was like what's hang on a minute you've got girls coming out i remember actually pitching this to him like i've got these girls coming out i met them in the nail shop and they're doing this thing where they come and they like rearrange your whole wardrobe and he's like didn't you just do that the other day with your sister no no this is different yeah and but now he's your biggest friend he was like here's my diary he won't do anything without you he's like we're moving um can we see if the girls are about to help but i think it's it's so interesting because you're right jemma there was a real movement after like because the engagement that you were getting on social and the inspo that that was creating for not just people thinking to set up a like-minded business but also celebrities too i've saw there's this real lift in like those organizing trends and reels and yeah that kind of it's a really sort of it became a thing and i think at the peak of us sort of on our rise was just before lockdown and i think lockdown kind of was a blessing and a curse for us it was amazing but at the same time all of our client or potential clients became either organisers or had their own home account so it kind of we had to pivot a little bit because well when you're so service-based and your business is being in people's homes yeah going anyone else's home apart from your own we did do that 10 day job during lockdown didn't we which gained i think we gained like 20 000 followers in two days which back then was for us at that that level that was massive we had like jamie and jules oliver messaging us every night like how's it how are you getting on with it like can we see the updates like it become like a series a tv show series of us kind of getting through this house and like i look back at that and we was really to be fair we were i think we were running on a bit of exhaustion at that point wasn't we we were like we just did not stop garage gym it was just insane but whenever i see anything that you do it is that content that i want to see the end yeah yeah like because you you share it and I think it's so smart that you share the whole process that you want the end result so you're going to sort of keep coming back.

11:19Whether that you can access you girls or not to have you in your home, there's something really therapeutic about watching that whole... We love it. When we're watching other people do it, we get sucked in and it doesn't matter how many times you see it, seeing a messy before and a really tidy after was kind of our thing. Yes. And it still gets us now. It's therapeutic, isn't it? It really is. It's kind of like a whole release And when I look back at kind of the access we used to get as well, what we still do get now, and you think, wow, people are literally letting us in their homes. At the beginning, we were hardly signing NDAs and stuff.

11:51We're like filming. I mean, we're very conscious about what we do. Yeah, we're mindful. We're so mindful. But we're like literally in their homes. We're thinking like, how have we got this? But I think that says a lot to you both. You're both so warm. And like instantly I'm like, oh, no, they're fine. Like there wasn't that. I was never like, oh, I've got, is it weird that they're coming to my house? I never once felt that. which no genuinely I really didn't what I think you've done so well is really made I suppose that for something that is service-based that wasn't was supposed to be a stopgap you've really launched a brand for yourselves and you've managed to go from service-based into product now which I know that you've got your brand of like incredible kind of home furnishings and candles and how do you get from that point into that sort of end goal so i think for us it was at the time we'd sort of got it was either we create these products for ourself or we went down the licensing route um so we ended up going down the licensing route which really gave us the opportunity to go from like you say service to product with with little risk with little risk no not having to come up with the upfront cost and so it was a great sort of starting point for us like massively um and learnings too like i'm i'm with you like i did a lot of licensing and i still do licensing deals but before i launched my own business because it's kind of nice to be a sponge and sort of think this is what i would do differently yeah it's not everyone's first route but i think and when i look back would i would i have just launched my own product from the jump maybe yes i think i would have done as amazing as the licensing's been and so grateful for the opportunities i think in hindsight if we'd have known then what we know now we should have probably launched ourselves yeah but but then you also could have had a different outcome yeah exactly you know we could have been financially massively in debt from me it might not have gone as well we might not have been in big super chain supermarkets that we're in now you You know, it might have been a completely different story.

13:59But it also gives us the freedom. So we were in people's homes. We still are. We're busy. At the time, we was doing a lot of interior design stuff. And that is a lot more time consuming than just being in the day organised. And I don't think we would have been able to do that. No. As well as have the product. So actually, it was really perfect for us. Which almost like when it's running sort of in parallel to each other, you're keeping that name. You're PR-ing yourself by doing all of that content at the same time. so it worked and we were still getting creative control we sign off on everything we give design inspiration and so we still had that element as well so it was it was a good shout for us to be fair and how do you think that you built such a kind of solid name for what you do that you could make it to the point of branding like what's been I know it's kind of like you say it's almost been learning on the job because it wasn't actually supposed to be the kind of thing that took off but it was but what do you think's been the thing that stuck like your route to sort of making people aware of you I think I don't know I think being in a duo was something different I think being sisters but not sisters was always a bit of a gimmick people like well you're not actually sisters that was always a little bit of a something and I just think I think that the clientele we were getting and then the press that would come along with it I think that just boosted our kind of name didn't it yeah we were really clever and a bit naive in the beginning with the way we went about it and I think that was actually really we just had kind of like Charlotte approaching you in the now shop we were kind of just like just got to take every opportunity like and we'd put ourselves out there we messaged everybody offering the service it was a new thing and I think once you start Instagram back then was special like it was magic when we first started the the growth that you could have so quickly was just different to what it is now um so I think once you're seen in a few celebrities houses it kind of it's just word of mouth and did you just put your obviously well I know when it come to me even that we met and that was it and we was but that's kind of a sort of by chance meet right like we actually met in person and you spoke to me in like a different instance were you putting yourself out to sort of contact people via instagram like how because sometimes there's that level of and we speak about this like embarrassment to ask or embarrassment to ask questions or like sort of put yourself on the line yeah exactly were you just kind of sod it let's just i don't think we've ever been that Like, for me personally, Charlotte's a lot more braver than I am.

16:43I can be very socially awkward. I'm the most confident, unconfident person you'll ever meet. But when it comes to business and when you put your eye on the prize, it's like... Yes. And you'd kind of... I didn't care because we were behind sort of the brand and what we did and was behind the service and we knew it was an amazing service. We knew that people would benefit from it. So it kind of gives you courage in your conviction. so reaching out to people it wasn't like I was offering or we was offering ourselves well we was I can't explain it it was just a you're kind of if they say no they say no they say no every no leads to a yes doesn't it and to be fair every time we was at someone's house they'd be on the phone to someone else going oh you'll get these girls round it was just word of mouth before we were doing you we were doing Amanda Holden we were literally just going bang bang bang then Daily Mail would be picking us up we had no PR at the time no management we were just two girls I was literally just doing that.

17:37It was like a hobby. It was a bit of fun for us, to be honest. And at what point do you say, okay, do you know what? This is, we're going to need, like, management because we're getting mentioned in press. Yeah. Our following is skyrocketing. The engagement is there. We're getting asked to appear on TV shows. And I do think all of that is credit to you both, but also credit to you having this niche, which at the time I don't think, if someone was to launch it today, I don't think the pick-up would be as strong because it's now, it then becomes, like everything, it becomes a little bit saturated.

18:10There are people doing it, of course, in their own way and differently. But you girls are the originals in my eyes. I won't hear anything else. You heard it here first. I won't hear anything else, all right? At what point do you think, okay, I need, like, this is all a little bit now, it's gaining that attention that we need management in that sort of media area. Well, let's just say we've kissed a few frogs in the management area. Oh, baby, have a wheel. Have a wheel. Again, naive. In the beginning, yeah. But you don't know what you don't know. No. And when you're like, you know, you've got a fashion shop that you've then sold, you're doing eyelashes, how are you supposed to know the first thing about an agent in the world of television and media?

18:53Well, I used to work in PR years and years ago, so I kind of had a little bit of an idea with clients and what clients should know and what you kind of like, you know, transparency with things. And I think I was getting a little bit at one point like, something doesn't feel right here. Got a feeling. You get got feelings, don't you? And you do just have to run with that, don't you? But I always think it's better to sort of, I mean, we speak a lot about failing fast and doing it, trying it, and do you know what? Okay, fine, that doesn't work. On to the next. You learn from your mistakes, don't you?

19:23You learn from things going wrong. I think if everything was going so right, you'd be waiting for something to kind of almost go wrong. I think for us, things going wrong has then made us only stronger and only ready to kind of move forward and in the right direction. We have always listened to our gut. Like we used to get clients reach out and if something felt a little bit off or we're talking well, we'd be like, not sure on this one. So we've never really been pulled by. Necessarily taken opportunity over like the integrity. Yeah, we've always been a bit over the finance. We've always thought, no, we want to be happy first and foremost.

19:55We want to enjoy our clients. We want to offer this service to people that are going to appreciate it. And so I think with the same with management and jobs we've always been really us and authentic with us so if jobs come up and it didn't feel quite right or quite aligned we'd always be brand deals especially wouldn't it just the money might be quite okay and we'll be like oh should we take if it actually doesn't align with us we wouldn't use it in real life i don't like it do we do it no so i think we've always been very true to ourselves i think that's a big testimonial like testament to us that we've kind of just stuck to our lane it is and in those situations those offers can be tempting yeah like we speak about this a lot to be able to who was it that I had a conversation with oh Ella Mills deliciously Ella she kind of she was she did a little bit of licensing for a moment and she sort of lent her name and her recipe to so it was a floor cleaner yeah and it was like she was trying to make they would wanted to make a recipe to an almond floor cleaner and like she was like it was such a like tenuously random didn't work and I thought at that point I need to do my own thing because the branding stuff for her wasn't working.

21:02And of course, there can be great opportunities that come with those deals, but you have to know when it... And I think it's the people believing it too. I think people see you as a bit of a sellout. Then whatever you are adding, they don't believe it then. It kind of waters down your value of what you're saying. If you say yes to everything, I think you've got to be quite... You've got to stick to your views and beliefs. Absolutely that. I always think, and I'll get into setting your table in a minute because I love doing this and like setting our future self. But if there was like a dream client, because I suppose for you guys, it is that, isn't it?

21:40Like you're doing the product and that I'm sure will continue to evolve however route, you know, whichever route you take. But if you had like a dream home to get in and organise, who would that be? We always get arses, don't we? We want to give a really good answer. But I feel like probably going overseas now, I feel like we've done a lot of people in the UK now. We do watch TV sometimes on a Saturday night, especially like, done your house, done your house, seen your underwear drawer, seen your knickers, seen your pants. I bet, I bet. For me personally, I'm not, I don't know, maybe the Kardashians.

22:20I know that sounds maybe a bit cliche, but I love their style. I love that and I just think it'd be really interesting yeah I don't I don't actually really have it I just kind of want to help people who need help in I mean they would be mega wardrobes wouldn't they that's what I'm saying just imagine the things you'd see but did she used to be an organiser Kim did she back in the day I think she started off doing like Paris Hilton's organiser but they're quite organised already exactly I think I prefer to be doing something that really needs the help you know like someone that's like struggling or you know like or might have lost someone or gone through something can you really feel that well it's hard to sort of pick yourself and I know what sometimes when you watch these TV shows that like you know like those hoarder programs when they've been through such tragic yeah you know such tragic situations in their life and you can't even think about your home it becomes like so at the bottom of the sort of priority list yeah I think for I think as well like almost like doing the whole thing like helping them with their home like when we've done things for this morning back in the day like we love that like we were transforming rooms and we feel like you were transforming lives almost didn't you at the time I'm not because we enjoyed it.

23:22We was, really. I know it sounds, like, insane, but you are changing lives. We've helped a couple that was on the verge of breakdown. They were going to get divorced. They were arguing every day about the clutter in the house, and it had become a huge thing in their home, and just removing that argument saved their marriage. The mother-in-law got us in. Like, genuinely, the mother-in-law was like, I need to save my daughter's marriage. It's so rewarding. Like, when you hear those stories, like what you do is so so rewarding how do you see like we always talk about like businesses growing and scaling and you know some people are like I don't want to scale my business this is what makes me happy and this is business for me does it would you find it hard like scaling a team yeah look at your faces we try because it's such a personal touch and I think when it when you do have a service-based business yeah it's so hard because i'm sure like and this sounds terrible but even if you called me and said rosh we're gonna send so-and-so to dad being like oh where are you which sounds terrible but i think that's what happens and i spoke to sally who's got her design and she said that it's taken her a long time to do that and now she's got a team of like 10 girls um that she's kind of really nurtured over a long time but it's she sort of had to do that for her own ability to be able to switch off a little bit more this is where i think because we're not just offering the organizing we're doing the products and we do a lot of social media and then we're doing the tv we haven't actually had the time to sit and nurture a team yes and i think if we had it would have been a completely different story but we've never had that time so it's been we've tried at times and it's just not like you say, because we're the face of the service.

25:12The downtime to be able to be so across it. We didn't think it. We put a thing out a couple of years back saying, looking for some organisers, literally didn't think anything of it. When I say our emails went into the overload, wasn't it? Just pinging through. Just put our normal email address. Should have put at once focused for that. Yeah, it was wild. We had one, honestly, I think we had three emails a minute for about three days. We had to delete the post. It got so overwhelming. We couldn't even go through them. We was too busy to even go through them. And we did not expect that response.

25:41But like you say, we've now inspired so many people to go and do this for a business, people that love organising. So it is rewarding. And you've almost bought what feels like a bit of a club that you want to be part of. And I think that's where the sort of branding, the products come in. It's like an extension. Like if I see a black and white stripe, I don't think of anyone else. To the point where I see something else, black and white stripe in a shop, and I'm like, shall I send it to them? That's weird. That's strange at this point. sometimes I'm even like oh my god I've striped out now I don't know where the stripe evolution came from it was just a monochrome vibe wasn't it we just love a stripe but you're like you're so known for it and it is your thing when I look back to your the playroom we designed for you in the house with that really cool stripe rug like I mean to be able to be doing jobs like that for us that that is one of our favorite things as well like being fun and creative and being able to design rooms it's just we love it and that's where you shine like I can really see like and you but you take it you take everything on yeah so you know like it's hard for you to switch off like i'll be getting messages from you girls at like whatever time and i love it because i'm in but for you i think you probably want to just go to sleep no we're sending me like a black and white rug option and i'm like in with you but it's in those moments where i'm sure it'd be lovely to have a team to take yeah the load off a bit but but we're not very good at delegating We've had teams and they're just like, tell us what to do.

27:05No, we can't. It's just, I think we're so in it. We're so obsessed. And it's such a gut instinct thing what you do, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to teach someone it. Even writing the book was quite hard because it's like a, it's putting down what you do into words. It's such a visual thing. But that's why the book is so important because we need your mindset. Do you know what I mean? That's exactly why a book is important. We'll write that in a week. We went on holiday. Write it in a week. because I'm not sure a week. I reckon about six. I was really good at English and I write an essay just to say, hi, how are you?

27:37So I was like, wicked. It just flow. I've never been so stumped in my life. It was so hard because what we do is so visual and instinctive. To put that into a book for people that's easy to read and understand was really, really hard. Well, you sat in your garden, didn't we? I was like, I need something visual. So we just got loads of A4 bits of paper, stapled them together and just wrote it really rough just to see what the chapters would look like. and then it started to kind of all come together. And how did you find that process? Because often people like yourselves that aren't necessarily writers but actually have something that you get offered a great publishing deal and something that you know the world are going to want to hear, how was that?

28:18Like you say, you thought you were going to do it in a week. How long did it take and did you enjoy it? It took months or ages. We enjoyed it. It was actually really therapeutic to get it all in one place. So it felt very organised. Truthful. Yeah, looking back, probably there would have been a few things we would like to have done different, but you're kind of limited to certain things. Like pictures, I would like more colourful pictures in there, but it was a black and white book. And, you know, there's certain things that you're kind of limited with, but it's done well. And it's a great book.

28:48You don't have to read it front to back. If you find organising overwhelming anyway, you're not going to want to read a book front to back. to then get started so it was kind of like we wanted you to be able to pick it up and sort of go straight to the chapter that you needed or the room that you're working on so it was very and we wanted to bring in that style element I think the thing that probably makes us a little bit different to some organizers is that we have got that styling background yes with that so there's that it's not just that we're going to come in and organize we want it to look good as well we want to sort of elevate the space so that was getting that in the book as well I literally gave you a room when we moved in and I was like, this, my poor kids, I'm like, this would be a bedroom for maybe having another child, but I'm not going to have one.

29:30So this is going to be my wardrobe. Like, I think I know how it looks. You know what I have in there now more than I do. So how do we make it look fun? And I love that whole process. Like, I love doing it with you. There's no one else I could do that with because... Well, you sent us the inspiration. And because we know you, we know your stuff, like you say, know your stuff, it's then creating that vision that you had that will cater for the amount of stuff that you've got. So it's like that minimalist vibe, but still being able to fit everything in and see everything and making it function. It's like a puzzle.

30:02We go to houses sometimes, like a lady's closet, and there's nowhere to hang a dress. And we're like, who's designed this wardrobe? Like, where are you hanging your long stuff? And it's just, it's kind of like, it blows our mind. We're thinking, oh my gosh, like. It's not functional. No, this space isn't working for you. Like, we always say, like, your home's got to work for you. like everyone lives differently but we like to make it flow like you've got bits for the kids downstairs in the kitchen to kind of help get ready to school I sit at the kitchen table and I've got this little box I'm like the products come out yeah I've got a little box for the kids hair gel in the morning because it just works before they're going out the door rather than doing it upstairs so you just make it you might not sound conventional having that in the kitchen but it works for you in your life so that's where we differ there's no rule book that we can kind of like I think it's like you say it's so personal everything's relative to person that you're working with.

30:47I want to talk about the future because I love doing this. We talk about setting and designing your future self. So if you were to sort of set the table for what the future would look like for the Star Sisters, if we were to do this again in a year and then again in five years, what's kind of in your orbit? We're going to set the table with our new Star Sisters range. Perfect. We've got a dying range coming. fabulous beautiful plates and marble pieces and then on that plate would be building kind of on top of what we've done already um i think if we could build a team amazing we really would love to build on that community feeling you know people are still interested in organizing so i don't think that's ever gonna go away no no like when is it like a sort of organized home not a happy home.

31:43Yeah, exactly that. And once you've experienced that feeling, you know yourself, you can't, it's like, if you could bottle that up and sell it, you'd be... People live such busy lives, then go home and be chaotic as well. It's too much. It's too overstimulating. You need to have something like, your home is your sanctuary. You need to be able to switch off when you get there. Yeah. So we just wanted to kind of spread the word. Hit as many homes as possible. Maybe going overseas. I think we've always discussed it. I think, yeah, I think in five years time it would be that we've sort of expanded here overseas and more products and where would be your first stop where's the dream stop overseas America for me somewhere hot somewhere hot California way of life take me with you please and then finally I like to know how you spend your lunch hour I know for you sometimes that's like in a wardrobe because I've seen it myself and you just like pause and order something in but what is what's the sort of day-to-day lunch hour looking like what are you eating and where are you this is so different isn't it on a day-to-day basis I've been terrible recently I've got it's normally a prep I feel like we just live in prep prep or gales we're We're gaining up to Gale points, aren't we?

33:08Oh, God, not those cinnamon buns. No, honestly. That's my weakness. Yeah. And checking emails and sort of catching up. Where we're in the wardrobe or whatever it is that we're doing, we're so in it. Yes. It's kind of, you get to your phone and it's like, so we're kind of on the catch. Or like licensing chat, can you approve this? Or like the management might be like, can this brand deal's come through? Do you want to go? You're kind of catching up on admin. Yes. Checking in on the kids, you know, like you picked them up from school. Normally, probably lunch break for us is probably more like 2, 3 o 'clock, which is then school pick-up time.

33:39So we are juggling still kind of life at home as well as life at work. So you're like catching up because, like you say, it's such close work what you do, isn't it? You're so kind of in it when you are. You've got time to catch up on all the other work that also exists. Yeah, and even, like I say, when we're back designing things, it's talking to the tradesmen, the contractors, making sure everything's aligning with each other, checking stock for items. When we're doing all the design work, Like it kind of does definitely take, there's no working hours with us. No. It's literally no switch off.

34:07Even when we've left a client's house, I mean, the amount of times we ring each other and be like, should we put that there? Should this go there? Do you think they'd mind if we come back and we move the tights to a different drawer? Like we are obsessed. You don't switch off. And I think when you haven't got, when you've got your own business, I don't think you ever do. No. And would you, do you seek that a bit? Because that's one of my things that I'm like, if like design my future stuff, I'd never not want to be in it because I would never not want the passion that I have. And I think that's always something that I do value about myself.

34:38But I would like to get better at switching off and having a little bit more time where I actually don't think about any of that. Yeah. I think it's hard when you're passionate about something because for me, work is, and I know, Charlotte, you're the same, fun. It's not a chore for us. I actually really get a kick out of it. But I also love home life as well. I know Charlotte you do yeah I think I think for us during them lockdowns it really did kind of make us think actually gosh we've not stopped our feet haven't touched the ground for a while and then actually it's good to have time with the kids going on like a walk I've recently got a new dog so I'm making like a conscious effort every day getting out for an hour not taking my phone yeah just kind of I think you have to you have to have like some sort of down time otherwise it's just too much and I think you get the fear when you've got your own business you think if I do take my foot off the gas it's all going to go away and stop yeah but it's just trusting that actually no it's not going anywhere and someone someone said to me once and I can't remember who it was I feel like it might have been Jo Malone but she said that actually you know you've got a good business when you can take a day off and the thing doesn't crumble yeah like and I think that is the goal and it's trusting that and I think when you become it is hard to delegate it is hard to like relinquish control a little bit if you're that way inclined but I think that to me is the goal.

35:58I think you become a bit of a slave, especially social media because it is 24 hours, like 365 days a year, there's no like it's switched off a bit for tonight like it's down time, it's constant, you just think oh my god we're not posted and it gets overwhelming then you don't post for a little while and then you've got to post and then the algorithm and then it's just like, it's kind of like this little thing sitting on your shoulder like constantly kind of you've got to be creating content you've got to be doing this and sometimes it does get overwhelming and you're like whoa, like just give us a minute You've got to take a minute for yourself.

36:25And how do you do that? So you're like dog walking. That's your switch off to kind of leave the phone. Yeah, just being in nature. We love a walk, don't we? Yeah, I love a walk. Or I actually go to town on the house, start blitzing it, spring cleaning. And that's kind of my therapy. When my house is done, I feel more in control. And I'm like, okay. See, true to form. Or I pick a paintbrush up. I love it. No, I love it. I love it because that is your passion. Yeah. I pick a paintbrush up and start painting things around the house and my husband's like, oh, Charlotte, what are you painting now? Here she goes again.

36:59Girls, I've loved this. It's so good to sit down and talk to you and you've smashed it. Thank you. You've really carved your own space that when I think of organisation, and it's not, I say me because I'm talking for myself, but I know that that on a whole, you're owning that space. You really, really are. and I can't wait for word domination and everything else in this feed. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us.

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