Ep 32: Sam Faiers: From TOWIE to a £28M Wellness Business—No Filters, No Investors

0:12Samantha Fair's rose to fame in the world of reality TV but what is truly impressive to me is how she's transformed herself into a powerhouse entrepreneur. So let's find out why she's a lady who launched. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. I'm so excited to sit down and talk to you because I see bits, you know, like we reply to each other's stories. I see bits on Instagram and I'm loving watching everything play out and really seeing the growth for you as well as revive now. and it's been so nice to watch it all play out. I always like to start every interview going back and talking about early life and sort of really finding out about Sam and why the Samantha that we all know looks the way you do now.

1:05So what was it like for you growing up? Who was around? Were there any sort of entrepreneurial influences? so I grew up with my sister and my mum and we was born and raised in Essex moved to Spain when my mum met our stepdad so our stepdad's always kind of been dad to us so we moved to Spain then back to Essex back to Spain back to Essex before a bit of back and forth um and then we um we had a really nice life like I don't think that we was we wasn't like super wealthy but we always had a lovely home my mum kind of raised us on her own when my dad went to prison that was for a long time as well so it was just me, my mum and my sister and we are still now to this day like sisters, we're so close we do everything together, we speak every single day we're at each other's support system but yeah growing up I wouldn't say that I had anybody really entrepreneurial around me my mum was superwoman, she was a stay at home mum my mum didn't actually work until we was teenagers but she raised us and took good care of us and made sure that we had the best life possible I was surrounded by a lovely family I had three sets of nan and granddads at the time really family orientated but I wouldn't say there was anybody like significant that was really big in business we was kind of just like a kind of like a normal family really like all my nans loved cooking and it was kind of quite humble to a sense quite traditional very yeah where do you think kind of that real sense of like aspiration comes from okay so I was so when I went to school I was a c grade student I really didn't enjoy school at all I was there for the social side of it I used to bunk off my mum was like the other day did you I was like I was like yeah you went to the races once and I was off all day you've got to be careful what we say in interviews now we're older because they're like I didn't know that about you yeah um look I was a I was a I was good child I wasn't naughty or anything but I just didn't enjoy school that much I was definitely there for the social side of it um I just wanted my own money and I had this thing in my head that when I left school I wanted to go straight to a recruitment agency which I did and I can remember the day vividly I had you know that day at the end of school when you bring in the extra shirt and everyone signs it yes so that day and it was half a day and everyone's flowing from flower and madness so I left I left at school I didn't go to sixth form so it was how old are you 16 I think 15, 16.

3:34And I got on the train. After GCSE? Yes. So I went to school in Shenfield in Essex. I got on the train at Shenfield and I went to Ilford where a friend of a friend worked at a recruitment agency. I think it was actually Reid recruitment at the time. I can't remember. I think it was that. And I went straight from that day because I didn't want to go to sixth form. I didn't want to go to college. I actually didn't really know what I wanted to do. All I knew that I wanted was my own money. And I wanted a mini one, so like the car. I was like, I'm going to start doing my driving lessons next year.

4:06And my goal is to have that mini. And the only way I can get it, because my mum wouldn't have been able to afford it, is to buy it for myself. Anyway, so I went to the recruitment agency and I'd like stuffed like a black jumper in my bag. So I took off that shirt of all the names on it. So I had my grey skirt on, which I definitely knew I was come straight from school. A jumper and went straight to the recruitment agency. Done all, just like filling out forms basically. Just look for a job. And a job came up like a couple of weeks. and it was just like an admin job somewhere in Ilford. Yeah. And perfect, fine, got me in the door.

4:38It was like probably the most basic wage you could ever probably imagine. But it was like customers facing, speaking to people, I was making teas, I was doing a bit of admin and I was like, this is it, this is what I wanted to do. And then anyway, a few weeks later, I was like, I need to swap this out, I need to do something a bit better than this. So I applied for a job at the bank. So the bank was for me my first proper job. So I worked at Lloyd's TSB and I loved it. so this is pre-TOWIE so this is like a couple years and what was it that you loved about it so much? I just think I was a cashier I actually went on to be the fastest cashier in that area it's so sad but I was really fast no it's not sad I love that and I got the I remember my big moment when I got the keys to the safe so like I would go in early and I had the master key and it was like the responsibility and there's people that had been there for years that didn't get the key but they trusted you I was keen and I was just, yeah, I guess I just took the role and run with it and I was willing to learn and I wanted to work my way up.

5:39And I guess at that point, prior to going into the TV industry, I was kind of looking to build my career in banking. I don't know. I really enjoyed it, you know. I think maybe it was, I was customer facing at the time. So maybe it's the customers that kind of what I enjoyed. I don't think I really loved the number side of it. I think it was just kind of being. And probably the growth. Like when you're recognised for performing and doing well and becoming the fastest cashier in the world, getting the keys and you're getting that trust. And you're like, I'm finding my thing here. And particularly if you're not engaged with school in that way and you're not performing in the way that everybody wants you to, but here something's really sticking, there's probably that kind of self-gratification a little bit.

6:23I was like, I can do this. I literally left school with hardly any grades and I've got a better job than all of my friends and I'm getting a proper solid weight each month. I really felt proud of myself. And I got my mini one. Yeah, I got my mini. And actually, when you work for companies like that, there are actually like systems where you can actually get certain things at like a lower rate and on finance and stuff like that. So I found it on this system in the bank and I was like, oh, I can even get it cheaper. So anyway, that was like, I think, the start of my kind of career in knowing that I wanted to earn my own money and be, you know, probably not at the time a businesswoman, but just, you know, have a great job and, you know, book my own holidays and buy my own clothes.

7:07The independent. Exactly. And I suppose this is exactly why I start the interviews in this way because I always like to find out about the before because that says so much about you and your character. Like, you wasn't sure, but actually I wanted the mini one and I was going to find a way to get there and you did. And I think it's constantly having your sights set on something and whatever that is, you're going to work to make it happen. And don't you think it's funny that it's not until you get older, like maybe now in your 30s, you look back and you think, that was a really significant moment saying that I wanted that car.

7:38Whereas at the time, I didn't think of it like that. I just thought of it as like, I really want that car, but mum can't afford that, so I'm going to have to go to work and get it. But when you look back, in hindsight, you think, actually, that is like what we all call now manifesting. Back then, we didn't think that was a manifest. And it's a real sort of trait of your character that you've got that determination and that ambition and that work ethic that you're going to work towards something that you aspire to have. And we say, like, I'm big on manifesting. I love it. I'm huge on manifesting.

8:11But obviously half the sort of argument for manifesting is working towards that, right? Absolutely. And it can't happen without the work behind it. So you have this job at the bank. you're flying you are ticking the things off your list that you want to happen at what point because we know you when Towie's born yeah so at what point does that slot in so Towie I was around 18 when we was asked to do the pilot the original pilot for the show so I was working and how are you found like how does that right so there is a story behind this which is the truth. There's so many different stories, but this is the truth.

8:51We like the truth here. Yeah. I was like one of, well, I am one of the original cast members of. Well, when I think Towie, I think you, I think Gemma Collins, I think Amy Charles. Yes. I think your sister. Mark Arge. I think Mark Arge. Like when I, and I'm now, I don't really know or follow, but it's the, to me, it's like, it's like the original band, isn't it? Of course, it's like the OGs. Yes. Yeah. So do you remember a guy called Brian Bellow, who won Big Brother years ago? Yes, I do. So he, so we all knew Brian because we're all from Essex and we're all kind of like at that age where you're in the party scene, you're going to 195, you're going to New Bar and all these places.

9:26Remember it well, girl. Yeah, exactly. And we all kind of had like a friendship, like, and not everyone was like close friends, but it's just on that scene of that age group. Almost like acquaintances, right? Exactly. And Brian, at the time, because Amy and I actually went to primary school together, so Amy and I had always kind of stayed close and so did our parents. So Brian had this idea to do a TV show not dissimilar to The Hills. So at the time there wasn't anything like it here in the UK. It was in the States. I loved The Hills, by the way. Yeah, so that was like the first proper show of its kind.

10:01This kind of like. Anyway, so he said, I'm going to film a pilot. By the way, this pilot is still being a pilot. What? You shouldn't have told me that. It is the most embarrassing. You should not have told me that. I've got this half-head wig on. I'm going to try and promise we're not going to include it in the trailer. Honestly, I can't even... I have to tell you because, like you were saying, it's just being honest. You're excusing yourself. Don't worry. Listen, there's no judgment here. Everything I've done since the age of 12 is available on Google somewhere. Yeah, that's it. So listen, there's no judging here.

10:36No getting away. So Brian said, right, let's do a pilot for a reality TV show about me and my mates in Essex, blah, blah, blah. And so, to be honest, 70 % of the people on this Brian Bellow original pilot made it to the actual show in the beginning. Anyway, so we've done this pilot. Nothing to lose. We were all at Kirk's house at the time. He's the one that had the big house. We all used his house to do like the pilot. Done that, watched it. It is on YouTube. It's super embarrassing. Nothing happened. So Brian went round to all the channels. So he's almost pitching this out. Pitching, yes. So Brian ran to all the channels.

11:15I've got this show. I've got this cast. We want to do a reality TV show like The Hills. Nothing. A year later, I got a phone call from a lady who was from ITV Production. And she was like, I've just seen a pilot. Can we get you into the office? We are looking to do a TV show based in your area. I was like, great. Yeah, let's do this. Anyway, we filmed a fresh pilot. There was loads of people from Brian's original cast and also extras. And actually, Brian was called in to do the pilot as well. Right, okay. Anyway, so that's kind of how it all began. And then we filmed this pilot. They went around the TV chat.

11:53So ultimately, it was kind of taken the... Now this has come back to it. I feel like I remember reading something that he was very put out by this because his idea was used and taken again in a different way. Which is the truth. and he actually took them to call. I can't remember how much he settled for, but he ended up getting quite a big payout because TOWIE was an overnight success and none of us knew that was going to happen. The minute that show went on air, it was like, it was insane. I mean, you were in a girl band, right? So we used to go to like PAs or sign-ins and because it was a younger generation then, like these youngsters would like chase us down the street.

12:33It was just mad. And this was pre kind of social media being what it is now. We had no Instagram. It wasn't like when somebody now goes on Love Island and you can expect to come out with a million followers. This was like no one knew what to predict. You like won a BAFTA. Like it was a whole thing. It was crazy. Like it was an overnight success that none of us kind of could ever imagine happening, like getting papped and things. It was just, well, and actually what was quite good about it, I guess in the early days, none of us had nothing to lose. So we gave it our all. No expectation. No expectation.

13:03So I think that's why the first couple of years of that show was so good. Isn't it always on those shows? I'm like, I am such a TV binger. I will watch everything, especially when it started and I was like, I'm from Essex. This is mad. I'm like, oh, my God, they're going into the deli. Yeah, you recognize it. I was like, this is amazing. But nothing to me when it comes to those reality shows, and you'll know this way better than me. But as a viewer, it doesn't ever hit like the first. I think Love Island is probably an exception to that rule because it was out so many years ago. and they've rebranded it quite a few times and it still lands.

13:36But for me, those shows, the original cut, like that's what you watch it for and you're like, are they in it? Of course. Oh, I've kind of lost interest a little bit now. And you kind of wear your heart on your sleeve because like you were saying, back then as well, there was no Instagram. I think TikTok, not TikTok, definitely not that. Twitter. Yes. It was a bit of Twitter. It was like MySpace or something. Yeah, and there was a lot of like papers and like all the mags were kind of more tabloidy then. So now we have everything on our phone. So we didn't really have anything to lose and we just had a really great time.

14:02And I'd done the show for, I think, three years. Yes. And actually, that's when I first launched my first business. So me and my sister, my mum and my auntie at the time, was like, right, let's use this opportunity of being on TV. This is kind of where the first business kind of grew. Well, it began. And when you're on telly and you go, it's funny because back then everyone was like, where's that from? Where's this from? Where did you get that from? Obviously, like you said, there's no Instagram. And I was like rummaging around in my mum's wardrobe. I didn't really have money to dress myself for Towie at the time.

14:35There was no money in it at all. So then we were like, let's do a shop. So we got a little shop on Brentwood High Street called it Minnie's Boutique. That was my nickname when I was little. And we launched the shop on the show. And it was crazy. The whole of Brentwood High Street at the time, this is going back all these years, had to shut down because more than 4 ,000 people came to the shop opening. It was insane. I just don't think that kind of stuff would happen now because of social media being so... It was such an influence and like an engaged audience because we're looking at TV, right?

15:08Much more than we do now, right? TV has kind of fallen off in the way of, you know, if you're committed and you've got that loyal following, of course they'll watch whatever you do. But it's so different now because we're, you know, there is so... We can record a podcast and put it on YouTube, right? Absolutely. That wasn't a thing. how you you're talking about this that like this is like a natural move who that is so entrepreneurial to be like yeah let's take this moment and make hay where the sun shines we don't know what yeah how long this is going to be here whose idea was that um it was mine and my sister's um well i originally said maybe we should get a little shop and we can launch it on the show because it's a storyline so i saw it more as a storyline than a business at the time okay so we didn't know how well the shop would do but we thought it'd be a great storyline we love brentwood high street it needs a boutique anyway so let's just kind of like let's see if it happens and did you or like your mum aunt sister have any experience in like fashion buying or nothing we was all down commercial road this is so i love this buying packs of clothes thinking i think that'll work i'll wear that on the show and then that will sell but then it was just it was honestly it was from the beginning it was the first ever thing we'd ever done so like my auntie was quite good at the time with like numbers and finance so she was like right I'll do the banking side of things Billy and I were obviously front of house yeah and wearing the clothes and buying um and then my mum as well she just oversee everything with us always they're always just the three of us together my mum actually still has Minnie's boutique but online so the business is still going today but my mum runs the whole business now so yeah so it's still going all these years and we just don't have the boutique anymore right yeah well a lot in the high street most things moved online in that way right so yeah I just um and it was just amazing for years it went on that little boutique we just used to buy in from like suppliers we didn't have our own at one point we tried to go down the route of doing our own designs but we and this is where you start learning from your mistakes right we because our overheads were tiny because the shop was only small and we got like a really great deal because we got it way before the high street started getting really busy yes um so um then you kind of go into sourcing your own clothes and doing minimums and spending all this money and not getting the return and then we thought now this isn't quite happening how we thought it would be yeah so then that's when they decided to take it online and then I stepped away from the company and then was working all different projects and I started filming my own tv show um called the baby diaries when I fell pregnant and then we done the mummy diaries for like I don't know about six years my sister's done it a bit longer than me so then we from TOWIE there was a little gap then there was more reality that for years that was tough with the kids yeah I was gonna say it's quite because then your life changes right when it's when it's you and it's like the storyline is the clothing boutique yeah and you're in control of that yeah but then when you open it up I suppose as you as you grow as a person and then with that becomes relationships and family and everyone having to be on the same page of whether filming works for you anymore and the one thing you can't control in front of a camera is your kids um and I remember actually because I met Paul and I fell pregnant not we were actually was like a whirlwind Paul and I because I fell pregnant about six months after meeting him and um I said to my business manager I was like right should I pitch a show because at this time as well there wasn't really any baby shows yes so I was like should we pitch a show on like kind of like becoming a mom and being pregnant and like you know the highs and the lows and that is where the whole kind of show was born so I actually went in to pitch the show and I was pregnant I was like mate I wasn't full term but I had like a little bump and they was like okay we'll give it a go so we done a one-off it was just a one-off called the baby diaries at the time right and it was really successful and then we got a series and then the series went on for seven or eight years gosh yeah so um it was a Huge success.

19:11And I look back now and it was like, and obviously even on that show, I had multiple other businesses before Revive Collagen. So we had a clothing brand called All Bits London and then another brand called St. Avenue, all more fashion-based. And, you know, it was kind of doing the same, I guess, like format I'd done with TOWIE. It was like, right, let's launch a business on the show. We've got this platform. And that's what you know, right? You know it works. You've got another show. Yeah, exactly. Let's stick to what we know performs. And that's it. and then actually it didn't really go as well for me this time.

19:44And I feel like, and this is what's great, because I think when you, like in business, sometimes I think you can get really deflated and you can feel a little bit like when something for the first time hasn't gone how you expected it to be. And the success of Revive Collagen has definitely come from all of those kind of ups and downs that I've had over the years. Like we put quite a bit of money into our own clothing brand and we had launched it on the Mummy Diaries at the time. And we barely broke even, you know, and it wasn't the right thing. It wasn't, we didn't execute right there. And we learned from all those mistakes.

20:21We'd got this big office, this big distribution. Our overheads were massive. You know, we just wasn't making the profit. We was barely breaking even each month. And like myself, John, and even Port at the time that was involved, we was barely getting a wage. Everybody else was getting the money. And we was like, we're doing all this work. Something's gone wrong here. And we're not even taking a wage. So, but it was great. at the time it's not but now I think wow we learn like John and I since thought to revive college and we learned so much from those two fashion brands and we talk about this so much on this podcast and I think it's something that as women we do quite poorly because rather than at the time you're like I've messed this thing up this thing's not working for me rather than seeing it as a separate entity I haven't failed I haven't failed it guess what we tried something yeah and that hasn't worked out but in order because it hasn't worked out I know now what I'm not going to do yeah and every single founder has that in common and that story and that moment that they're like this failure is actually a lesson and actually probably if someone's just followed you now they would see revive collagen and see the boom but not know about any of the prehistoric mistakes failed businesses failed ventures that actually have been lessons in order for this to be to shine the way it has and not for you for the whole team if you're working with the same people you learn as you grow and you can't grow without those moments exactly and I also think a lot of hunger comes from if you were kind of brought up as well and you know that there's things that you want it sort of sends back to me wanting that car and things I think like you know that you have to make it work for you and if you're not just being like you know fed it on a spoon and just given giving it to you you kind of work a little bit harder you've got to go out and make it yeah Yeah, exactly.

22:05So we was filming the Mummy Diaries and I had my second, so it was Rosie at the time. And it was getting to the point for me where it was just all becoming too much, like filming with the children. Like it was amazing. I feel like made so many make great memories. The kids have got this home movie, which you can never buy. But things were just getting a kind of a little bit too much for me to be filming. I think Little Paul was starting school and scheduling. Do you know how you just feel like you naturally, something sort of like you feel like, right, okay, I actually want to move on now. Yeah, this feels like we're getting, this is drawing to a close a little bit.

22:39Yeah, exactly that. And actually my sister continued the show for quite a few more years. Paul and I stepped back, we'd moved to Surrey at this point. And I just had Rosie. I had the most worst, and I never had acne growing up as a teenager. I was quite lucky. I always had quite good skin. I had postpartum acne but like cystic like really bad and um so basically this is the story where kind of revived collagen was born right so had really bad skin um was still kind of filming at the time because it was like a crossover between leaving and not so I um tried all of the expensive facials um diets dermatologists like you name it I tried it and nothing was working in fact everything it was making it worse you know like sometimes now you know more about ingredients And you're almost doing too much.

23:27Yeah. Because you're trying to find the cure. Yeah, exactly. And actually, there's a beauty in actually doing less sometimes. Exactly. And then I never used to really want to go outside. I felt really conscious. I used to cry. And I always remember once we was in the Maldives for mine and my son's birthday. And it's all across Christmas. And I didn't come out of the room for two days. I was like hysterically crying because I just hated the way. And I don't like wearing makeup on holiday. When you're at the beach or at the pool and you're kids, you don't want to put foundation on. And actually it makes it always, I feel like, makes it look worse.

23:59And also for you there's kind of having something later on in life and you've not had it, you're like, oh my, it's that kind of shock of it all. Yeah. But actually you're aware that you're in the public eye, you're front-facing and we are sort of told that we're supposed to look all things shiny and flawless and there be that level of perfection because you're on a screen. Yeah. And having that and feeling like maybe people are looking at you. Always. That's what you think everyone's looking. And when we used to film, like this is when we still film at the time, I used to go, right, I'm going to stand this side of the camera because one side would have been worse than the other.

24:34And it's like, it's really okay. And maybe it was, but for me it wasn't. No, no, no. You know, it's definitely. So anyway, so I threw all the potions and lotions and all the appointments out the window. And I was like, there's got to be something for acne or postpartum, like whatever it is, skin, rosacea, whatever skin issue that you've got. that's not just topical or, you know, not just, and I think this is when I started researching more about gut health. Right. And I already knew quite a bit about gut health because I was diagnosed with Crohn's about 12 years ago. So I'm very into like homeopathic medicine and holistic and all that kind of stuff.

25:08I'm really into it. So then I started looking into, at the time, collagen. I never really looked into collagen as part of my diet. Right. This is like five years ago now. So, no, it wasn't. It was six years ago. Seven, six, roti seven. Gosh, six-ish years ago. And so I started taking supplements. Right. So when I first got there, I was like, right, creams, facials. But then I thought, no, right, let's scrap that. Let's try supplements. Yes. And I tried collagen powder, which is quite inconvenient. But over the space of about six to eight weeks, I was using the powder collagen. I was taking vitamin C, vitamin D, zinc, magnesium, all these different supplements.

25:47And that's when I really got into it. And I was like, yes, it's working. I was like, my skin is getting better. And could you instantly notice? Well, they say like six to eight weeks is the time where you notice the supplement, right? Exactly. But I would say after two weeks, I already, I think because I just calmed down and reset and just went down a different route. And then all of a sudden, I just started to see my skin calmed down. The spots were disappearing. The marks were fading. Because when you have acne, you get left with marks. I've still got some deeper ones I still have. and so I called John who's my business manager also my agent we've been together 10 years yeah we do everything together yeah and I was like I was like I've got a really good idea for a business and I was like I really want to do skincare supplement it needs to be collagen I was like and let's talk about so this is like six and a half years ago and this is now that's quite an obvious route for people yes like now the boom of collagen and yeah exactly and everything else in between i feel like we got in there for early not first but early but what's interesting is it was the obvious thing if we're going back six and a bit years ago would be let's why don't you have a fragrance or why don't you have a no i had a very nice no but that's that was that kind of the state if you're going to conform that's the safest route going into collagen i haven't seen And also up until this point, the shops, the clothing, not as much, but you know how it is.

27:16I've done so much endorsements and throughout the years been... Sold everyone else's brands. Yeah, sold everyone else's brands. So much licensing. I still do have some licensing deals as well, which I love, but I wanted this for me. I wanted this to be my business. And as you know as well, so much goes into it, and especially in the early days with the research. and so anyway going back to calling John John was like right yeah let's do it and we done extensive in like honestly that the research that we had to do because we wanted for us it was about product product product product we was like the product has to be perfect it has to be taste great it has to do what it says on the tin it needs to have loads more ingredients in it that there's nothing else on the market it needs to be for me I was like I don't fit up with mixing powders I was It needs to be on the go.

28:07And it just needs to be... I've had that innovation, I suppose. Yeah. Because like you say, you're not going to do a like for like because you've tried a powder, but as much as the ingredients work in those things that you would change, right, if you were going to do this for you. And like going back to when I was taking the powder and other supplements, I was like, why don't I just put all of this into one sachet? Is that possible? John was like, can we do this? And he was like, well, we can speak to the lab. I'm sure we can. It took a lot of time to find the right people to make our product.

28:34and that was the first thing. And then after that came, obviously, packaging and marketing and stuff. So packaging is super luxurious and we wanted that to be, like, really gorgeous as well because you want women to kind of, like, enjoy taking their supplements each day. You know, like, you line up 20 tablets, they're so hard to swallow. The experience of it all. Exactly. But to start off with, it was just about us perfecting the product. So you then, you perfect this product. You're then really happy with this, which is, if this is something that you're doing and it's part of your routine this is something that needs to be right what then happens because as we touched on before you're really ahead of this collagen curve that's now formed was it was it a difficult conversation and I'm gonna ask you this for so many different reasons because I this is something that I've had a little taste of when When you're first known as a, and I hate the word celebrity, but a celebrity, that kind of pivot and changing lanes and changing careers, it can be hard to be taken seriously in certain aspects.

29:43And like you say, and I've had this, when you license and you do that, and I still love licensing, and I do that with different brands. And it's fun, right? Of course. Because for us, it's zero risk. The goal is it sells out and they renew, right? I'm like, boom, you sell out yourself. It's a whole logistical pain. But, and that's something that I've learned along the way, because coming from that background, you think, oh, great, we've sold out. Let's have a party. But actually, you know what that actually means. So when you first had this concept, you've got the support of John. John believes he's your number one.

30:20You developed this thing. Was there a conversation of, okay, outwardly, when you're trying to push this business side of you, you've got something and you have got something because the success of it speaks for itself. Those conversations when you're in the room and you aren't normally seen in that vein, was there ever any kind of feeling from your side that people didn't take you seriously? Or is that something you ever noticed? so when we first launched the the brand it was just on um our own website to begin with so um john and i have fully invested all of our own money into it and to this date we've never took on external investment we've always reinvested into the company um so we was just online i only used to push it on my own socials in the early days probably around the first year but i am now I've kind of, I wanted to build a brand that was a standalone brand, not just a Sam Fares brand.

31:19Yes. Purely because of what you're saying. I feel there's a real stigma around celebrities and beauty brands and people just think that they stick their name on it and stuff like that. And I wanted this to be a brand that was built from like the customers that loved it. The product was what it says it is. So that's why the first launch, yeah, I was posting, and I still post now on my own page, but I was in like the first photo shoot and I got my mum in to do the shoot. I was like, you know, trying to save money left by the centre. Well, you use what you, if there's no marketing budget, that's what you inherit by, you know, you being part of the business.

31:53Exactly. And then as soon as, well, actually, the first 13 weeks of going live on our website, we made a million pound in sales, which was just insane. Like we, John and I never expected, we honestly, to this day now, we still can't believe that happened. So with that money. So you're tracking this, right? The sales are coming in. So let's talk about this period of time. So launch day happens. Yes. And was it pretty instant? Were you like sat there, orders are coming in and you're like. So, yeah, because what I done was, I done a video about like kind of my story, kind of what I just told you then.

32:33And I always feel that when people can relate and resonate with you with something, and I think women, we're always looking for, you know, a supplement or a product that's going to help us glow or, you know, help. You know, it's like when you're a woman, you always want something for your hair or your skin. Oh, listen, if someone tells me it's going to make me look younger and I'm going to glow and everything else in between, I've ordered five. You know, I'm going to be honest. This is, that's me as a person. And so I've just done this video and it was just talking about that. And other than that, there wasn't really any other marketing behind it.

33:01We got the packaging. We was very, John and I was really specific with the packaging. We wanted it to be amazing. And it was, and we spent a lot of money on it, more than what we probably wanted to. The business was obviously from our own savings anywhere. I'd actually sold my house in Hartford, Essex, and I used – we was renting. And I used the money from my house out to fund this business. So it was a huge risk, huge risk. But I can't tell you how much I believed in it and how much I knew it was going to be a success. It was like this fire in my tummy, and I just knew that we had something great.

33:34So that was the first launch, and then it was like, wow, this is doing amazing. in this is just the website um and like the sales were just coming in and in and it made us think we've done the right product at the right time like ahead of the curve we and and not only that as well then the customer customer reviews were coming in and that's what we wanted we wanted real customer reviews and then that was kind of our marketing tool having our real customers and how they found the product how it tasted because up until this point there wasn't really anything similar to ours that tasted great and had all the other vitamins in it um so then um with that first chunk of money obviously we reinvested it straight into the company and then we took on our first uk ambassador who's still our ambassador today and that's amanda holden yes yeah so this is where we said right this is why i want this to be a standalone brand we need to use voices and faces that aren't just me i do on my own page the whole time all the time you're always getting it's like me with my little cocoa you're always going to do that you believe in it it's your baby that is yes but now i'm in no marketing campaigns i mean none of the photo shoots i'm not on the website like there's a little video of me but i'm not you know across any of it because i want it to be standalone and we we brought on amanda holden for that reason who's been incredible she's still with us today and in the u.s um for a period of time we use chris appleton yes which was great um so And it's just about kind of using different voices and people and experts.

35:03Like we use experts. So when we launched our menopause, we had a menopause expert. When we launched Mushroom, we had a neuroscientist. And that's how I want it to carry on. Because you're right, no matter what happens, there's always going to be a stigma with a celebrity and a brand. And I don't care what anyone says. That's just how it goes. I mean, the great thing that comes with success, and you can say this with a lens of success, actually the numbers speak for themselves. Now, just for four years, you've generated over£28 million in revenue. If you don't want to take you seriously, you've got to be nuts.

35:34Do you know what I mean? So I think you're at a point where you don't have to prove yourself. Yeah. Does that feel quite liberating? Yeah, it's great. I love it. And you know what's really fun? Sometimes, like even a friend of mine, which is actually quite close to me, said to me a few weeks ago, I didn't know Revive was your brand. I was like, you're not kidding me. I was like, what do you mean? But I don't mind it anymore because that to me, I was like, actually, that means that, yeah, it is a standalone brand. You didn't realise that I even own that brand. You thought I was just posting about it.

36:10And that is your definition of success because that's exactly what you strive for. And if somebody can be close to you and separate the two, you know the brand is singing by itself without having to rely on you. and also it's quite a funny story I was in Mallorca a couple of years ago and this lady tapped me on the shoulder so embarrassing you know like if someone taps you and smiles you don't know who they are you feel they might ask for a photo so I was just like hi and she was like are you the founder of Revive Collagen and honestly it probably was like one of the best moments yet and I was like yes I am she was like me and my mum love your product and we were just chatting for a bit and I walked away and I went we won't believe that I went I only thought she wanted the picture because you recognise the hotel I tell you, when she recognised me from being the founder of Revive Collagen.

36:56She didn't even mention TV, nothing. And I was like, this is amazing. I was like, this is kind of how I wanted it. This is how I aspired it to be. And that's when you know the kind of the dial is turning. Yeah. Right? And actually that people are recognising what you're doing now and that's speaking for itself, you know, as opposed to being a face of. It's so exciting when people say that they take your brand and they love it or my mum loves your brand. Oh, it's the best compliment you can ever get in the world. It's the best, isn't it? I use this and it really works it could be the most random people sometimes and you're like really?

37:27John and I was just in Barcelona at this event and this guy was like love the brand, he just like tapped us because we'd get our name badges and it was like love the brand guys and me and John was like after it's so random now that people out of nowhere know your brand they're the pinch me moment I want to talk about how you handle growth in such a small space of time Because as you said, you launch, you do a million pounds worth of sales in the first 13 weeks. You're now stocked in over 4 ,000 retail outlets globally. I'm just reading these stats here. They're so incredible. The brand has sold more than 25 million doses and continues to grow with one box sold every 60 seconds worldwide.

38:13Yeah. You expanded into retail within the first year. You were obviously D to C. quite a few stores to kind of grow so quickly. And we, you know, on this show, we talk to founders from the likes of Joe Malone to somebody that has literally just started out their business and they're hoping for that growth. Scaling and handling that as a team when it's just you and John, when did you first start to onboard outside help? Like, when did you say, okay, this is, we can grow this team really confidently now? And what was your first hire? So our first hire, and you're so right, like, even when we, that sounds great, having, you know, a million pounds worth of sales in 13 weeks was actually, for John and I, the biggest headaches.

39:06We was like, oh, no, because we've got now customers that have subscribed to our website and we can't fulfill that. So it was actually, we was begging, begging, like, the labs and our suppliers, like, we need, you need to, like, stop everything else that you're doing. You need to help. It was really tough. Yes. Because although it's fantastic and you've now actually got this money to give them to get, but it's making the product. It's like, then you kind of. And the danger is losing that customer. Yeah, exactly. So, and then now we're fine now because we've got all these people that are helping us.

39:35But our first hire, and I'll never forget the call because John called me and was like, obviously we're expanding and stuff. There's a lady called Sarah Power. She is the GM of L 'Oreal, UK and Ireland. She's been there over a decade or almost a decade. Shall we take her on? And for us, John and I have barely taken a wage. Every single penny was plummeting back into the company, you know, just to grow the business, really. And so it was actually quite like a serious conversation that we had because it's a big wage, you know, it's a package as well. it's not just a wage when you hire someone so big like that and um I remember just I shook a breath because I was thinking oh that's eye watering and I went um let's do it let's do it and never looked back like she's still with us now been absolutely amazing and you know it's so interesting because it's like a sort of there's a pattern here it's you are at the points where you think should we risk it and those risks are really paying off But it goes down to that belief and that passion that you feel, you know, you sell a house.

40:43The smart move at the time is maybe to put those funds into a new house, you and your family. But you believe in it that much. And I spoke to Trini, actually. And Trini, when she launched Trini London, did a close sell in her own house. Yeah. And she sold her house and rented somewhere to help the start of her business. And I kind of really recognize that in you. but having that belief and kind of risking it all for something really risk taker over here yeah no but i think it's yeah it's it's paying off and it's you've got to that point where you've had those lessons that it's really working in your favor how how big is the team now we are at 15 people now but we are about to so we're about to roll out in the u.s this year into 5 000 more stores which is really scary um it's incredible that so really exciting but yeah it's quite scary we're actually now in the process of building out our team in the US as well um so the team is just going to double um if not more than double by the end of this year so um that's John's department I oversee like you know the final zooms we do so John kind of whittles it down and also remember when you're hiring these kind of real big names that have been in the industry for a very long time you actually have to like fight a little bit of them because they they've got loads of offers on the table of course so it's not just like oh we take our pick we want that person from l 'oreal we want x tom fold like you actually have to kind of um you know and the success shows itself but these i think what happens is they they want to make their own mark in your business as well and i think that's what's great about revive collagen is that we're such a lovely community like we you know we we all we look john and i really look after our whole team and it's kind of like we want everybody to make their own decisions in their areas in our business you don't want to micromanage exactly you want them to flourish and bring their skill set exactly and i learn so much i'm learning every day for my team and you know i just it's just still and like you're saying we've both said earlier like when you own a business you're still learning all the time and you're always going to make mistakes and nothing is perfect even before this podcast John's calling me in the car he's like you're all right and I was like I'm fine I think he's because John could like talk forever about everything and I was like it's fine like don't worry like but I said I'm not perfect and I don't know the ins and outs of everything you're not supposed to and that's why you you delegate different roles and jobs that's why we say that the team is the most crucial part yeah you know the team is everything yeah because if you were gonna do it by your set and that's the important thing to kind of know when to sort of yeah i'm not gonna do supply chain that's not what i know that's not what i've learned and that's not your strength that's not your skill set to bring to this and if you want it to flourish you've got a higher smart right exactly what what does your day-to-day role look like now so i'm not in the day-to-day running of the business.

43:46John and I speak 10 times a day. So technically, I'm across like all the conversations. We're actually getting an office this year because up until like the next couple of months, everyone's remote. Although there's like meeting points, everyone meet up. But this year, we're going to get an office because it's needed the teams expanding. But I'm across like every important decision, you know, new product development and, you know, marketing, social. I love social. Yeah. That's a big part that I love. And the creative element. Is that what really sort of gets... Yeah, I love it. Sort of that's your passion.

44:20I get excited. Like I'm always on the social calls and the marketing calls. I love those. But I'm not really on the finance calls. John will just like do an overview at the end of the week. I mean, we're aligned there. We are aligned. And I wouldn't take a call that I was going to sort of... I'd easily change the budget, you know. Oh God, yeah. Don't come to me with a budget because I'll just spend it all. Exactly that. Exactly that. But how different is this proposition to you? Because obviously I know that, like you said, you've done those licensing moments and you still do those, but this is something that you wanted for you.

44:58Does it, as amazing as it is, and we talk about the successes and the numbers and the volume and the expanding to the US and the team growing, does it when things don't go right yeah because we know as much as lovely things can happen people don't see or you hope people don't see the bad because you hope there's something that you can always sort out as you go how do those moments affect you because i think as a founder this is it becomes your life it becomes another child of yours how do you handle those moments and does it really rock you? I am. We couldn't get any different personalities between John and I.

45:42I am the really, I'm so laid back and calm. He would be the more stressy one. The one that's going to flat. Yeah. And I'm always the more laid back one. We actually had a huge problem right before our mushrooms. We got a new Topics line that launched this year. Launched and one of the machines broke. Right. So we wasn't sure whether I'm not always going to be able to fulfill all of our retail orders for Holland and Barrett. And it was one of those moments where we was like, oh my God, what is, like he called me and he was like, the machine has broke. So the machine's broke, the production line stopped and it was like, this is, you know.

46:23Your hands are tied. Yeah. And this is like hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of orders that it's just, and you know, you have to meet all these kind of deadlines with retailers. And of course, every retailer will have a different rebuild date and a different deadline that you have to hit. So if we don't hit this deadline, we might not even be on the shelf. And then what are we going to do? That was our, you know, our launch was with our online and Holland and Barrett. Anyway, so that was, oh, it was just, that was quite stressful. But I remember him calling me. I went, listen, I went, everything's going to be all right.

46:54That's probably the most annoying thing you could say ever. But sometimes you have to hold on to that. I went, you know what, like, look, we've got enough product on our website, for our website. We'll give them everything that we've got. So we're still kind of, we're still. Got a presence on shelf. Yes. And we're still keeping that relationship with Holland and Barrett. I was like, at the end of the day, like, what can we do? This is out of, when something's completely out of your control and there's nothing you can do about it, like a broken, massive machine in a factory, like, what are you supposed to do?

47:26you know it's so um i think i handle things quite well right to be honest i don't do you take it like do you need that time for you to kind of like do you can you remove yourself from it for a second um not really mentally i because i can't and that is one thing that i'd love to get better at kind of it's all consuming yeah and then i will answer my phone all night and i will because I can't until whatever it is, we've got to a point where I've processed it or it levels out in some way, it consumes me. And I wish it didn't. I think when you're so passionate about something, like you were saying, it's like having another child and whoever your business partners might be that you talk to at the time.

48:11It just comes from a place of love, I think. And you just really want it to all be okay. It's hard to be an off button. Yeah, it really is. And when it is your own business as well, there is that passion there you know and that's i think ultimately it comes down to yes and the emotion yeah we talk about this a lot separating the emotion from business yeah and i think it's something that when it's your baby it's really hard to not yeah i don't know whether it's reading a comment if i saw a comment about me and somebody said oh i don't like what she's got on today i couldn't care less i promise you i couldn't care less but if somebody said say something about my product yeah that would that rocks me and I think it's so so interesting and that's how you know that you've got that feeling and that love for it and that passion that it becomes yeah becomes your child you know I wish it didn't I wish there was an off button sometimes but it's all consuming it is I want to talk to you about giving back because with having success and having a platform and you know a brand that is thriving in the way that it does giving back is always such a big part of that and if you can that feels like almost the big the biggest success of all talk to me about the initiative that you've got with vitamin angels because i've never heard of anything like this before so this is for me kind of like the heart of the business and it's not kind of spoken about maybe as much as it should be because we we partnered up with vitamin angels about a year and a half ago so we have a program with them so every single box of revive collagen that's sold we give a six month supply of vitamins and minerals to mum mothers and children across the world so basically like the the the most preventable sorry the most preventable cause of child death is malnutrition so a six month supply of vitamins could be the the reason between life and death for a mum who's so basically the vitamins are from when they're pregnant through to the children up until they're like I don't know up to their 18 um so we've we're on track to have supplied a million mums and children this year so we've done around 660 ,000 and John my business partner went out to Sierra Leone to see on the ground what what difference we're making and for me it probably is the most rewarding part of this business absolutely so and um it's just like it's incredible when you when you speak we when we speak to them all the time the guys it's a us-based charity we speak to them all the time and we are the biggest we're their biggest donor in the uk so it's so incredible and i've not i've never until you mentioned this i didn't know about that initiative and that the charity that does such incredible work and how rewarding for you to know that yes you've got this amazing business that's growing and scaling but to be able to hit and be on track to hit a million yeah mums and babies yeah it's just yeah it's incredible yeah um yeah we're really proud of that you should be um i want to do our rocket round now yeah great which is our quick fire okay and the first question is what do you think are the non-negotiables for launching a business oh um i want to go back to building out the the team that works for you i always think that um like you can you can have this great idea you know you can have the funds behind it and you can have that drive to kind of launch it but i think when you get to a certain point your non-negotiable should be you can't do it all you need to bring in people that can support you here to help build your brand in your business and don't be ashamed to say that you can't do it all because you can't it's impossible and that for me was the the first thing john and i done was then when we knew was getting to a point of success we need to hire in the perfect team now to help us grow and you're right it can be quite a hard thing for a lot of people because actually it's that when it is your baby and you're worried that somebody would look after it in the same way as you but actually it's it's it's a hard thing to do but it will repay itself 10 times over yeah exactly and I think that it's not I think lots of people might fail in the early days because I don't think it's not because they haven't got a great idea it's because they don't you have to keep pushing like keep going you know and you might because you could you could stop at the first hurdle yeah and I sort of done that in the the second two clothing lines that we done wasn't really making a profit and it was like oh but like you're saying you if you've got something that you know is really good and your idea is great and it might take you a bit longer to kind of you know get your feet off the ground but just don't stop yeah because you're like you say you'll you'll figure it out and maybe for you with the the other clothing brands before yeah yes you could have pushed but there was obviously that feeling that this idea wasn't right yeah it wasn't it yet yeah because everything isn't aligned and I don't feel that yes there wasn't that yes and that fire that you can't put out yeah that's the thing to act on yeah when did you first realize that you truly launched I mean we spoke about the first 13 weeks and that was fantastic but I think for me was when we secured our I think it was 675 stores of Holland and Barrett and then in the same month a thousand boot or just over a thousand boot stores that to me was like I can't believe we're going to see our products in Holland and Barrett and boots like on the shelves and online that that was kind of my moment I think because I suppose at that point you really believe in it your team believe in it you can see those kind of e-com sales really performing but then when a retailer goes yeah we want that because everybody you're like ah okay it it must have landed yeah and it was so exciting and i remember getting a phone call from um john and sarah and we had a zoom and it was i think the first three weeks it was in boots and we was the we was the the biggest selling wellness supplement across all boot stores and it was like no really well because There's all these other brands that you love and know, right?

54:33Without selling them. Yeah, I was like, really? So yeah, that to me will always stick with me. Pinch me. The pinch me moment. What's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed? And this is anything. Yeah.

54:50I either wake up next to Edward or Rosie because we are musical beds. My alarm goes off at 6am. The first thing I do is open the blind. And whether it's Edward or Rosie, I'll give them a little kiss and I'll be like, good morning. Rosie's the one. She could be like the growler in the morning. Oh, really? So I go, good morning, princess. Ready for her. And I'm waiting for her. So, yeah, that's what I do first. And straight downstairs, put the kettle on. That's it. And last thing before you go to bed?

55:24Why don't I know this? What do I do? I mean, it's a random one. It is, actually. I well yeah last night I made myself like a hot cacao you know like with the milk and then I took myself to bed really early about half past eight I see to me you're laughing but there's no judgement here I'm like it goes to eight o 'clock and I'm like I really want the kids to sleep so I can go can you just go to bed please because I really want to when I'm asleep I took myself to the spare room because I had this today I was like I need a clear mind tomorrow so I took myself into the spare room with my hot cocoa and my phone and my phone what has happened to the party girls that's a thing of the past um one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listened to

56:16um I don't know really like going back to what you said earlier I never really had many kind of like entrepreneurial people around me growing up um I think there was obviously close friends and family that had said you can't put all those savings into this business you don't know anything about skincare or e-commerce or health and wellness you know that came up a lot and I ignored everyone well it's just you because she didn't listen to it anyway i didn't listen to anyone so you know i just like you were saying if you really do know that you know something's going to be right for you every everything kind of you just i just completely ignored everyone but i think that's a testament to you and your character because some people really do let outside noise in and kind of let that stop them making certain decisions so that's credit to you what's a skill that you'd love to learn can this be anything anything i always think like for me in terms of business i would love to i would love to learn graphics and graphic design but the problem is if i learned it i'd be dangerous and i'd never sleep like it's the thing that i'm like i try to articulate what i want and you know we've worked with the same designer for a really long time so they understand what's in my head now but it's if I knew how to do it I'd be up all night that's interesting because I love I'm quite techie I love things like that I've actually always loved photography I've never done a proper photography course oh I've got all the gear I've got the cameras lights the newest camera that might come out I put my name down on that list I just don't really know how to use them exactly that I stick it on auto but I was always that girl in in the club that had the the Sony That was me.

58:09That was me. And it's always been a passion. I love, love, love photography. You should do it. So one day, I think one day, because at the moment I'm filming for a new TV show at the moment, and the business and the kids. When things calm down a little bit, I really want to learn how to. You should do that for you. Yeah, exactly. That thing that isn't work, but is something that you know will fill you up. I just want to know how to use all this equipment. And you can put it to work. Yeah, exactly. I'll do the shoots. There you go. there's every photographer that you ever work with is like please don't yeah yeah yeah

58:43um what's one thing that you wish someone had told you before you started this business

58:52um is there something that you've learned along the way that you're like if only I knew that before I could have saved a lot of time or a lot of misery to this day now I wish I knew more about finance right I've got to be honest um Paul is my finance guy in my head and so is John right and no matter how much they tell me or no matter how many meetings I sit in something doesn't click in my brain and it's funny because I worked in the bank so I was with numbers but I just wish that like my kids growing up now like as soon as they're old enough to kind of understand a little bit I want to teach them about tax and finance and budgets and things because Because that is a key thing that everybody should know about in life.

59:38It's so true. And I think it should be taught young, really young. And I think you're either programmed that way naturally or you're not. Like, I'm with you. We had a big numbers meeting here yesterday. And I can feel myself. Yeah. Zoning out. Dwindling away. And I'm like, ooh, what do I need to do? Because I know everyone else is listening. And I'm almost, it's terrible because I sort of rely on that. Yeah. But I sort of glass over a little bit. and I wish I didn't but then in the creative meeting and everything else when someone else that's numbers would glass over I'm like guys what do you think about this but I think and that's why you have a team yeah exactly but we need to get a little bit better yeah we do just to make sure we're across everything absolutely what would be your dream collab for your brand so actually we're looking to take on a US ambassador over the next year or two I would you know I want someone really iconic like for me it'd be great to have someone like Julia Roberts.

1:00:34Oh my gosh. In my mind, I just picture the scene in Pretty Woman when she's in the limo or down the stairs. And I just think with a sachet in hand. Oh my gosh. I mean, that is so out there. I know it is. But listen, you're like a master manifester. You put these things out there and you work towards them. I just wouldn't someone really iconic like that would be amazing. That'd be one way to be like, we've really landed America. Yeah, here we are. Julia Roberts. Exactly. Oh, my gosh. That would be incredible. If you could choose one female figure as a mentor, past or present, who would that be?

1:01:13You might be familiar with her. Sarah Blakely? Yes. So I followed her for quite a while now. And I love, so she's the founder of Spanx. Spanx. I was going to say Skims then. Spanx. and on her profile I just find her energy really good yes so I was thinking if she was my mentor I would really get on with her you'd feel unstoppable I feel like she's got that thing and you're not the first person to say this oh really yeah yeah yeah which is I think she's she's got that she should do some sort of program yes because we all want her yeah it's so true and I think having but then I suppose you can see a lot of yourself in her because having that kind of those balls if you know for want of a better term to launch something like shapewear in that space yeah can only have inspired brands to do it but do it differently after the fact you know like you see skims and yes but she started a whole movement that embraced the bridget jones pants you know and i just think that you know when it's somebody like that that it just feels so approachable and doesn't feel like that they're a million miles away from something you could ever kind of chat to or learn from i just think that she's great and she's her own success story in herself being like you know self-made billionaire as a female so she i'd love her to be my mentor she's available there you go please call me yeah um every episode i ask our guests to leave a tip okay so one sort of tangible piece of advice to a lady looking to launch and maybe launching in a similar space so maybe if it's in like the supplement vein or that wellness vein or someone I like each guest to be tangible say if someone's like I love what Sam's done I'd love to yeah have a you know a moment of that kind of success what would what's a good bit advice that you'd like to leave I think um I mean I think you might not agree this is a tip but I think if you're helping somebody and it's like you know you're you're solving a problem and I think like as women we're always looking you know whether it's I don't know your feet hurt on a night out or it's your skin or your hair or clothes or I don't know it could be a polish without any chemicals in it I don't know whatever it might be I think if you're solving a problem and you're listening to your customers I think that you can never really go wrong and I feel like that you know I always listen to our customers I love reading our customer reviews and I think that if you don't have like money to start off your company because not many of us do have you know a chunk of money to launch your business start small but use your people use your community yes and like I always feel like that's where your business grows because that comes from trust and I think when you've got trust in like your customers and people I think that that just is word of mouth and will just spiral and you'll be amazing it's so true because we talk about like the best things in the world to start from a self-indulgent place right because and like I suppose you're the definition of that you've noticed that you tried collagen you tried everything else for your skin and that was the thing that really worked and then revive collagen's born out of something that is solving a problem yes but if you feel it there's going to be somebody else that yeah is in that same space and it might feel self-indulgent or yeah do you think that people were like this or do you think and I had it with my little cocoa and the curling custard and that was the product that when we were talking to retailers that they would rather have lost and they liked the idea of having a baby brand that was backed by me and I was very passionate about it not being like baby skin by Rochelle Humes.

1:05:07Yes. It was that it was going to be the same, its own entity and to live on by itself. But actually that was the product that people were like, get it, but this one might not work. But it was, that was the reason that the line was born, right? Because I wanted a great product for curls. Absolutely. And the fact that I needed it, it meant that a lot of other people did. Because they trust you. Exactly that. Because your audience trusts you. and I think that's as a tip I think that's where you should start and not feeling that silly or it's something that you might think is a good idea really hone into that and it was Jo Malone that does this thing that she calls the pizza boardroom which I think is so interesting and what she says is that actually it goes to your point when you first start you don't have the funds you've not got a board, you've not got a team of advisors but actually you've got a circle and whether that's a friend sometimes we do things so kind of insular yeah that actually you've got a board of people around you but you're just not asking them so she says buy a couple of pizzas get a bottle of wine get some people over that you love yeah and that you take advice from you know if they were buying a skincare product yeah you take their kind of advice and ask them a few questions and do a bit of research with people i'm like it's genius so she calls it a pizza boardroom and you kind of would find out so many or you know i want no, I wouldn't like that component.

1:06:30I would like it in a tarb. You can find out so much with people around you, but we're often not brave enough to ask. Absolutely. And it's funny you say that, actually, because we've got a new product launching towards the end of this year. And the taste, when it comes down to the taste, you can imagine, John and I, so I say one thing, he says another. So I'm like, we can't do this. It's so personal, isn't it? It's so personal. So now we, not outsource it, we get everybody in the room and then we get everyone just to like mark it down, which we like first. And we let them decide now. I said, because this needs to be taken out of our control because we need to bring in our people and trust them because that's going to be our customer.

1:07:05Yes. So, yeah. You've got your own pizza board. Yeah. And then lastly, because I love talking about women who have launched, hence the whole reason for this podcast, but I'm also obsessed with food. And I like to know how everybody spends their lunch hour. Okay. so on a typical day if you are you're all meeting up and you're working together I know that you work remotely a lot but on a typical day of working for and with Revive Collagen what does your lunch hour look like where are you how do you spend it and what are you eating so I have to do two because I spend a lot of time in my home office on my own so I usually after the school one would do more of a brunchy type I love eggs and I've got chickens now so I've got my own eggs I've seen this I've got so many chicken crushes Because that could be for a different episode, but I've got so many questions.

1:07:55Oh, the chickens are amazing. They're really sociable. So I've got my eggs now, fresh eggs every day. So I always do either an omelette. I love spice. So I always do like chop a little chilli up. I like any kind of salad, lemon, dressing. I'm very much, I love flavours on my food. So always egg-based at home. Right. If we're out or in London and we've got the team together, John, my business partner, has got quite the expensive palette. Okay, tell me. No, I'm joking. we don't always do this but we do love like japanese food oh yes it's not all the time it's a good team treat though we often like to do a team meal like zuma and that sounds so but that's not all the time but um when we get our office in london in a few weeks it's not going to be zuma every day i know that you'll be bringing your eggs in from home yeah i'll be bringing my own salad in coming in yeah exactly um so yeah so if you're treating the team it's Like that pan-Asian, Zoomery kind of vibe.

1:08:53Exactly, yeah. And then you're quite eggy at home. Yeah, I am, exactly. I should have bought some for you. I can't believe it. You should have done. Stink out the office for me. I've loved this, talking to you. Thank you so much. It's so nice to hear. And as I said, I've seen your success from afar and really sort of looked on and thought, do you know what, she's absolutely kidding it. So thanks for sharing everything and congratulations. Thank you so much. World domination for you, girl. Thank you.

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