Ep 35: Jamie Genevieve Reveals the Turning Point That Launched Her Empire

0:12Today we're joined by the founder of a beauty brand creating high performance vegan cruelty free products. From working on makeup counters in Scotland to becoming one of the most influential voices in beauty, her journey is one of creativity, community and knowing your audience. Now as a founder, she's proving that passion and purpose can build an empire. Please welcome to the podcast, Jamie Genevieve. Welcome to Ladies Who Launch. I'm so pleased you're here. I'm pleasant to be here. honestly I'm so excited to have you and I've wanted to talk to you for so long and what's so interesting is our listeners really want to hear from you too anytime I do a Q &A they're like can you get Jamie on can you get Jamie on I'm so flattered honestly I think maybe it's because I work by myself in my house a lot like I've worked remotely my team's all in London um and for so long my career was you know kind of like solo work as well yeah I forget that there's real people out real people and they want to hear from you girl they want to hear from you um I always like to take it back to the beginning I think it always gives such a good sense of I hate the word journey but where the journey started so what was life like for you growing up in Scotland I know that's where you still are now but how do you think that early environment of yours shaped I suppose your love for beauty and creativity and everything you do now i think so living living in scotland i i love living in scotland glasgow and i i'm pretty sure you know i'll stay there um forever but my beauty journey started quite late um i was chatting about it on a meeting yesterday i didn't i don't have like a frilly story about me doing my makeup when i was like nine ten um but i do remember watching my mum doing her makeup in the mirror of the car so in the front seat i would be in the backseat watching her and she had like five products um not fancy probably out of date but she would take so much time creating her like everyday face and I remember you know when you're when you're a young kid you you can really sense emotions and you can really you know you with your especially with your parents and things I just wanted I loved it when my mum felt confident so the difference in her from when she went in the car and then she did her face on the way to wherever we're going and the way that she carried herself after she left I remember being really excited to see that version of my mum that's so interesting you do forget children like what they pick up on like and you're so right like I definitely think I act differently once I feel myself you know before getting ready and after I'm sure if you ask my kids they'd be like she was a beast before now she's really friendly now she's got a bit of lippy on but it is it's amazing and the confidence i just i remember that so well and i remember you know it was like i i can't even remember what the bag was but it was a super like humble little bag with a couple of products our lip liner was that size you know it was really well loved um but that always stuck out to me and then i've always been a bit of a grafter i worked since i was 14 and a kid soft play but i still wow yeah you wouldn't want to be there on a hangover no no no no no um but i remember getting ready for work I felt so grown up and I couldn't wait I couldn't wait to be like in the working world but I would do my makeup to go to work and I would feel so put together and so excited by it so it really was that kind of confidence in it and it it was almost like a bit of a uniform in itself and then um I think going from you know loving makeup I fell into actual makeup artistry kind of by accident I was just naturally pretty good at it I was I was in college doing art and I had to do makeup for a couple of people's units they had to do photography um fashion so they needed a makeup artist to do something for the photos to get taken so we didn't have a makeup artist in the class but I had my it's so gross but I had my bag of makeup and I was like I'll try so we just kind of like scraped together a look with using just everyone's stuff um and I didn't realize that people were behind me watching me and I was having so much fun you know when you're in your flow you don't really see what's going on around you you're just you're just having a good time and um it was my my kind of I was gonna call them comrades my student colleagues my like my student pals that said you're so good at that and I was like do you know what I actually love that so much and because I'm quite an impulsive person I messaged a friend that I knew had gone to college to do art and in the same conversation she gave me all the details and then she said I've there's a part-time job at Estee Lauder do you want to apply for it and I did little did I know it was because you get 50 quid every time you help someone get hired yeah so I was just yeah so I'm glad you got 50 quid yeah yeah um so in this basic one week I was studying makeup working on a counter um and it all just kind of really aligned everything just kind of felt right and is that like you as a person because that is I kind of recognize that that trait in myself like guys I found my thing yeah I love this okay forget what I was doing before that's now parked I love makeup I'm gonna get take on this job and is that is that has that always been you like quite impulsive but kind of quite I suppose intuitive knowing you know what's for you and kind of recognizing that purpose I love that you use the word intuitive because that's exactly what it was um and when things aren't aligning or don't don't feel right it's like the only word I can really think of is sticky.

5:40Everything's sticky. It's not really working. I don't really feel like doing it. I've not got the energy. But then when I have that excitement, it's like fuel. You could run on no sleep. It's just that momentum carries it. Totally. And then from there, it's kind of like a mad whirlwind. But I started on counter. I started on makeup counters. And that, I loved it. I thought I'd found my thing. I was like, just leave me here. Honestly, it was... What was it that you loved about it? What the actual product or speaking to customers? Yeah, I think I loved being in service of customers in that field that I loved so much.

6:18So, you know, I was good at what I did. I think anyone that works on makeup counters isn't actually a good salesperson, but I was always, it's the same thing. See, if I was trying to talk about something I didn't really love, that felt sticky. And I was like, oh, I can't really do this. But I would barter with my manager and she would say, we want you to sell 10 of these mascaras and I'd say I'd pay that mascara it's a terrible mascara but I will sell you 20 of this one that's amazing and then that's that's what I would do so if I'm excited about something then you can give it it's easy yeah I can give it everything so I'm working on counter as well it's the people so it's the customer and again it's the same thing as when my mum would sit down in that seat and leave a different woman you know that herself but just a little bit more stripped back even though we put makeup on it's just like there's just an ease there's an easiness to the way that she would carry herself so the customer it's the exact same thing they would come and sit down needing you know help it could sometimes it's quite emotional as well you know of course i remember color matching someone for foundation they'd never wore foundation before but they had their mum's funeral and they just want they just wanted it that's what they wanted they got really red when they cried they didn't want to look like that so I remember we would we sat and talked about it for like 20 minutes and even super hard situation but that woman got up and left like feeling better yeah and supported confident going into such a kind of monumental day I think you you kind of can't overlook how personable you have to be to be sort of in that space with someone it is quite an up close and personal thing like doing someone's makeup being like the glam team that I use I've had for years about their friends because they're family like it's not and I think you can't overlook how kind of close and that sacred that little bubble is yeah and I think that is that's credit to you and your warmth and I suppose that time that you invest in someone like it's more than makeup isn't it at that point yeah totally and that's that's almost like the the journey thing isn't it it's more the makeup but it so is yes and back in the day you know products were called camouflage and cover up and you're so right yeah tons of the products that were made you know back then it would be for the women you know it's not like that anymore it's for people it's for anyone that wants it um which is such an exciting way that the industry is moving it's not that beauty standard of uh you know a certain type of way looking women in our whatever era of our life it really is open to everyone um it's so relative isn't it i think the world has kind of slowly picked up on that yeah guess what everyone wants to feel beautiful yeah like there's no kind of this is a certain look or of course there's going to be trends and yeah certain moments that spike and things really pop but of course everyone wants that right and it needs to be accessible in that way and back in the day again you know everyone probably wanted it back then but they didn't feel welcome uh because that beauty standard was just plastered all over a beauty hall and all the people that worked there looked the same way probably and it's just it's it's a it's a totally different landscape and i i started on estee lauder super classic brand you know legacy luxury brand then moved over to alamasqua and that is do you remember are you joking me that takes me back to like my girl band days the color and the eyes and And they're like, I remember the nail colors as well that I love.

9:47So cool. But they were really, really ahead of their time with inclusivity. So that's when I, you know, I was 19 when I worked there and I had all different types of customers because the brand appealed to all customers. Yeah, it really did. You're so right. And that was, for me, it made me feel so excited, but also really proud to be, you know, not everyone's extroverted or flamboyant or, you know, knows exactly what they want. Some people need more help and some people are, you know, super introverted so that really taught me about the kind of emotional intelligence that you have to have with customers as well yes um which i just loved i get so much from my counter days and when you know now that the brand's grown so much we have our own pop-ups and we have our own moments and i get to sit down with that customer in the same way oh it's the best yeah it's the best we were in a space nk store the other day and i i was uh meeting loads of customers but i brought a brush belt just in case and we were so mobbed that there was too there's just too many customers for for who we had on the counter so I put my brush belt on so I could start doing color matches and I took a I took a girl over to sit in her seat and the first thing she did she sat in her seat and she went I'm meeting a man and I was like you're meeting a man and then I ended up just chatting about you know it just felt like being back on counter like this they honestly as soon as a bum hits the seat it's like they spill their guts they're like that I'm going on a date and I'm like that tell me more how did you be excited it's so good it's like a therapy session isn't it it really is that relationship is so so special so you go so you're working at Estad you then go to Ilamaska and then what happens from there so when I was at Ilamaska I'd finished college um and I had started posting on social media so every morning I would do my makeup and I would do it really like out there wacky illamasqua is kind of gothic so yeah I was kind of my gothic era which I loved um so pretty full-on makeup really different looks and I would take a selfie every morning and post it on instagram and this was back in the day when instagram was just pictures like it was one it was one picture a day um it was so much easier girl there's a lot more to deal with um and at the same time I I worked I think I just I'd stopped working in the pub I was working in a bar I'd like a bit of a dive bar and I was also working in lush the bath bomb shop yeah I know that smell anywhere yeah especially the kids um but I was kind of juggling all these jobs and I was doing my social media thing kind of on the side um well it wasn't on the side because it wasn't a thing it was just posting on social media you didn't know that what that could lead to and I remember I sat down with a customer at Illamasqua and they'd found me on Instagram so I'd started growing a bit of a following.

12:26I remember I hit 10K and I was like, I'm hot shit. This is amazing. And the first thing... That's a lot of people. Of course it's amazing. I was buzzing. And my first thought was how exciting to have a community of people that love makeup like me. And quite a lot of them were from Scotland or even Glasgow. So they would come and find me on the days that I was working and I was making all my Targets. And I was like, I'm on Easy Street. This is great. And when you made Target, you got boosted commission. Yeah, of course. you know I was earning I wasn't earning much money at all but I was like like you know if I had enough money to pay my you know I had the tiniest wee mortgage because I bought the tiniest wee flat and I was so I was just so buzzing with myself um but and also I think finances aside having that sort of fulfillment in knowing I'm really on to the right thing here what I'm doing I'm doing it at the best yeah of my ability and the best I could be yeah I just loved it as well And I really put everything that I could into the brands that I worked for at the time.

13:26You know, I actually really love being an employee and wanting to make them proud and be like really valuable to them. But I sat down with a customer and they'd found me on Instagram. And obviously a selfie, you know, I was I was posing. I was acting all fierce. But actually in real life, I'm not at all. I'm like a big marshmallow. So I was sitting down and I was doing this girl's makeup and she was like, you're so different to what I thought you were going to be. And I was like, what do you mean? and she was like you're just so nice and like you're so chatting you're funny and she said you should start a youtube channel and i was like absolutely not absolutely no i'm not putting myself out there like that and then but she planted a seed and i went away and i thought about it and i had a look on youtube and it was like halloween time so i was doing these crazy halloween makeups and my followers were asking me how to do it and i was like how am i going to explain how to do this and a comment so no because it's so visual you need to see exactly yeah what you're doing um so i i got my laptop out and i filmed it on my laptop and it's the crappiest video of all time and i'm so terrified and i'm like really really nervous not myself at all um and then i just posted it and i remember i sent a link to the video to my boyfriend at the time now husband and he was like what are you doing i'm just trying something out i don't know um and you know every step of the way i've always had the fear i've always had the fear i've always had to get like kind of pushed into a little bit of like encouragement i've never sat fully on by myself until now and really believed in myself to do something it's such an interesting thing to talk about because do you know what's so interesting I've recently recorded an episode with Dior and who is my life coach and I love having her on here because I love getting her perspective on like different conversations and we were literally just talking about it's that classic like feeling the fear and doing it anyway and somebody sent her a question and they said I how do I stop my fear getting in the way of what I want to do and she said it's kind of like reframing that fear is a bad thing like you have to have a bit of that fear and it's actually good yeah but it's almost like decreasing the amount to not let it stop you but know that it will power you through yeah that's such good advice yeah and all those feelings everyone will recognize them in themselves i think you know excitement and nervousness are the same thing yes that's what i say to my kids you just yeah and you just try and think i'm just excited when you're actually probably shitting yourself yeah i can't do this but either way it's that energy that you know that it's a driver yeah it's a driver and the other side of passing through that is only gold like it is that feeling of like because whatever whatever happens on the other side of it you know that you'll either go I'm pleased I give that a good go and I've proved to myself that actually this next thing isn't so daunting now yeah you know that's if it didn't work out in the way that you wanted but it was also there for a reason yeah but then equally on the other side it could be the best thing you've ever done it could be life-changing exactly that and there's a few moments in my life that I think were life-changing um and do you think that posting that video on youtube is one of them yeah i do i really do and i think there's there's like moments that i remember and it's the fear that i remember because i pushed myself through it anyway and then on the other side was gold so i was working on counter i was posting on youtube and instagram and i was growing um you know my followers online were growing at a really fast organic rate right you know slow and not even slow and steady there was about there was it was fast it was a real spike yeah it was like fast at one point um and then i remember i was sitting on counter and i was doing because of my following online i was back to back doing makeups but when when you're doing appointments you can't sell product you're basically sitting with one client and then at the end of the appointment they have to spend 55 pounds to get their makeup done right that's what it cost but i was like i'm not making my targets anymore because there's so much sort of face time yeah so I was I was fully booked with appointments and then um again it was one of my customers it was like why don't you go and work for yourself and I was like I can't do that I can't leave the brand I love the brand so I asked the brand can I stay Monday to Friday I'll make my targets and then I can have Saturday and Sunday off to do appointments and they said no so I had to make the choice um I think that was a huge mistake for them oh I mean huge mistake big mistake huge I mean that's just you often hear that happens a lot and I've heard that with nail artists and hair that actually what like I mean it's just a sort of an archaic way of thinking like keep hold of your best asset like that makes zero sense to me yeah me too honestly but I was gutted I was gutted because I really thought everything that I poured into the brand would come back well lost for them again for you yeah it was fine in the end but I went freelance and And again, because of my following online, I was just fully booked every weekend.

18:18And what was that jump like? Because going freelance, you know, as much as we can talk sort of through the lens of success now. But at the time when you're debating whether like, OK, I've put something to them. I've said I'd like to do appointments at the weekend. It's still kind of ripping the bandaid off on a brave thing to go, OK, well, I'm out. I'm going to go freelance. The easier option would be to go, OK, I've asked. It doesn't matter. It didn't work out. I'll stay where I'm comfortable like that's it was was was you nervous to sort of pull the plug yeah totally and I think I'm trying to really remember what it was that made me make that decision but I think it was autonomy over my life I think I think I was being able to have agency over how I spent my days and I realized I was like oh wow instead of working half nine till six on a Saturday you know I could take a half day and not have to ask anyone and just take the hit you know so I went from you know making 50 quid a day on counter to 50 quid an appointment yeah and then I never took a day off and had a rest of the rest of my life yeah no I remember just being so excited and you know the more I worked um you know the more the more kind of lucrative the business was and I had a lot of fun as well learning the ropes of being self-employed you know that was something that I didn't really know what not I know what to expect and making that move but again I think I've always felt like I can teach myself anything and that's because of the kind of encouragement I had from my parents which was oh my god you could do anything if you work hard you could do anything it's not nothing's going to come along and be handed to you but you can do anything and and working freelance you know I only actually did that for a year because my socials just kept on growing and I got invited on my first brand trip with Urban Decay to Los Angeles and it went into my junk mail so I just thought it was junk because it was like, you've won a free trip to California.

20:14You did it. Yes, of course. Sure, okay, sure. But it was real and I had clients booked in on that, the days that I was meant to be away so I was like, oh, I can't go. And then I talked to some of my other makeup artist friends that I was working with and they were like, are you nuts? You need to go and get in touch with them and move your appointments and go. All my clients were super supportive, obviously. and then the that was it I stopped doing freelance and so many of my clients said to me like we wondered why you were still here like it was it was weird yeah it was weird that you were still here but I just I still loved it so when I moved on to the digital kind of space what happened was instead of me having these like one-to-one encounters with you know either a client who was doing their makeup or encounter a customer you know encounter I had one brand I could talk about and that was it um when I was freelance I could use anything I wanted I basically saw it as a way for me to serve the customer just in a really different way right so I just found the best of the best stuff and I would talk about it online and I would show people how to do their own makeup and people would ask me questions like oh I've got hooded eyes how does your smoky eye and it you know they they were so engaging with me and they still are um and I really did just see it as another way to serve the customer so well that's what you've always done and it's almost putting it on a rather than getting through I don't know how many faces you'd get through of a weekend in a in a store you're hitting so many people at once I figured I figured it out between my years on counter and freelance I think I've served something like 15 ,000 customers and every customer that I'd have you know I'm chatting so I would they would come in for a replay of their foundation and I'd ask them why why do you like it and what do you like about the bottle and then they would say well actually I hate the bottle that it's in but I really like the foundation and all those conversations you know and I had so many of them I didn't really realize that I was just kind of banking all that information like I remember I remembered it all yeah yeah and then when I went moved online it's the same thing it's a focus group um but it went from you know tens of thousands of people to hundreds of thousands to you know to millions and it was just insane and that's a crazy journey you know when I when I was um a digital creator influencer or I just had the best, best time, made loads of great friends and I kind of naturally started moving into a different direction.

22:32Yeah. Always wanted my own brand. Since working at Illamasqua actually, not Estee Lauder, but Illamasqua, I think I maybe just had a different taste for it and every product launch that we'd get through, I would look at and I'd appreciate it, but I would always think, ah, that's a bit bulky. We could do, you could, yeah. Like that's a big step between shades and I just I just again I was just banking all this information and I realized I I think I always thought there was there was a bit of a expiry date on what I was doing you know it came out of nowhere who knows where it was going to go next um I think if you're really agile and you you can really like look at the the landscape you can kind of tweak what you do and you know content creators there's people that I know that have done it for so long and they have moved with the waves and they are still you know amazing and super relevant and they've pivoted the way that they do things um but it's inevitable that people kind of fall off and then maybe they fall out of love with it because it changed the landscape's changed it's not what you did before and it's not what you want to do now so I am my passion's always been makeup it's always been the customer it's always been formulas and it's um and it's always been about brand I think having your own Instagram it's like your personal brand oh of course yeah it's like your sort of shop front as it were do you how so you get invited on this urban decay trip you then kind of I suppose it's a bit of a light bulb moment right and then you know that actually maybe I can do a lot more in this online space rather than kind of limiting myself to what I'm currently doing how quick did you realize that there's a big way to monetize that because like you're trying to reach people you're discovering new things and probably actually enjoying making the videos and finding it so refreshing how did somebody have to say like jamie you know that this is like was there that conversation or did you because a lot you know we see now people saying i want to be an influencer like i heard the other day my 12 year old friends are like i want to be an influencer and i think they kind of see it as this kind of shiny quite glossy landscape that obviously comes with a nice lifestyle yeah did you was that something you knew that was at the time part of that no because instagram i didn't really discovered it in that way yet no and i think that there's a common thread i think between people that have done great yes um and it's that they didn't start it to be an influencer um and i think that's not to say that it can't be an aspiration now that we all know what it can lead to but um i would get home you know when i worked three jobs i would get home and film a makeup video at 11 o 'clock at night and stay up and edit it and then post it the next day like i was and it wasn't for money you know there was no money involved at this time i i didn't have you know adsense is something that you get paid through google for youtube and i didn't have that set up because i didn't know because i was like i just didn't get it no one why was everyone gatekeeping yeah i was just i was just doing it up until 3am for free but i just loved it so much and i couldn't believe i think it was the connection as well you know it's so exciting when you bump into someone and they're reading the same book as you yes oh my god yeah so it's the same thing with beauty and makeup like you start using a new product oh my god i love that yeah um so it just it all has the same feeling for me just on a different scale but i am i think that that LA trip I remember there was work involved in that and uh I didn't have a manager and I got asked for what my prices were and I gave an amount that I thought was mental and I remember thinking there's no way and she got back and she was like yep perfect and I was like okay and I told my husband I was like at that point do you think I think it's mental but this is a big brand have I undersold myself because it's quite like it's a bit of a stab in the dark if you actually yeah i have no idea so it turns out and like you know i made really fast friends with this with this pr um and we're still friends now this was this was years ago now but um she she was kind of talking to me she was like so you don't you don't have management and i was like no and she was like yeah yeah you're um i feel like i need to tell you that you charged probably 10 of what you should have and i i remember my stomach twisted because i realized i did not know my worth at all and again it's because of the authenticity I loved what I was doing I only talked about what I loved um and also you don't at that point you don't really know what's a piss take or not like you don't want to just quote something can be like well we're never asking her again how rude and then I think you know coming from my background you know um I don't I don't talk about it a huge amount I don't think so I never want to be a rags to it you know I'm not but but But in essence, that's what I saw.

27:21I know what it's like to not have much at all. And I always benchmarked my full-time wage working on counter against anything. And I still do that. Yeah. Because I know that I can be so happy and live off of that and budget. And, you know, I've always been really good with my money. The first ever nice bag I bought, I bought on a credit card that I signed up for when I was 18 because I knew it was good for my credit rating. And I bought this bag. It was half price in the sale, Vivian Westwood. and I kept it in the bag for three months while I paid it off. Like I'm good with money. But I don't know where I got that from.

27:55That's so incredible to have. And I was only a kid, you know? And so whenever, when it came to money and stuff, I'm not a greedy person. So when she told, when my friend told me that, I was like, what do you mean? And it was in the space of maybe six months, I realised when I started putting everything into socials and stuff, I got really busy. and I was I just I was like so grateful every day because I know I'll never forget what my background is and where you know I know the value of things and I um I was just so appreciative and again I was like I love what I'm doing like I'd do this for nothing and I did it for nothing for so long oh yeah of course of course but now this is kind of the this is where you sort of get into that sweet spot of like if you find something you love and like it goes back to that being an art student and then doing somebody a favor and trying to you find something you love you never have to work a day in your life and I think that's like the biggest example of that like I'd have done it for nothing but great tell me more how much should I be doing of course and it's great because you know what what that led to you know I had um again I'm like pretty sensible and um I think about what I'm doing I just started saving as much as I could and then you know I realized that if I put my head down and I really worked hard I could have my own brand and I thought I could fully self-fund it and the weird thing about having a brand but already having customers waiting is you need to start pretty big you know your MOQs.

29:28And also you've got an expectation not only like what you need to order because you need to facilitate the following and everybody that kind of buys everything else you already recommend but actually because you're known for loving these incredible brands and the best of the best girl this brand better be the best of the best which comes with a kind of added pressure so let's talk about how the brand was born and kind of because you said before that actually when you was at Elamasca that's when it dawned on you actually I like you know this brand inside I actually really love and those kind of things that you those improvements or those kind of tweaks that if it was yours you'd perhaps do it like this at the time when you I suppose saw it you know after the fact it was like a bit of a focus group in years of yeah you know there's changes that you would make at the time were you conscious of those changes in kind of thinking because one day I'm gonna have x or was it actually just stuff that you'd sort of held on to i think it's stuff that i held on to and because i genuinely i'm interested in what people have to say right we would just talk about it and i think maybe maybe in a subconscious level yeah because when you know we've got a foundation and i knew straight away what i wanted for the pack you know i knew i wanted it to be a needle nose and a flexible tube that you don't have to really force to squeeze but also not something that's going to spill everywhere um so yeah yeah I think I think there's a bit of a mixture maybe in a naive way I didn't realize that what I was doing was but at the time it was I suppose more of a curiosity than like actually like this is great so when I you know actually being that conscious of it so let's talk about that kind of light bulb moment that happened because now you've you know skyrocketed the following the videos the appetite which is what is the most important thing and they kind of that engaged community you realize that you're really onto something in terms of what you're currently doing when do you think to yourself or is that something that's brought to you actually I should be doing this for me and I should be launching the brand that I really feel is missing I think wait I'm trying to remember so it was two years before we launched it was 2018 that I started really working on it and we started working with you know different manufacturers and labs and um there was there was people that helped us in the start because we didn't have a big team at all so you need you know help with distribution and it was all those things that I really did not think about all I thought about was the product and the way that the products looked and how they performed and what I wanted the brand to look like that was literally me by the way so it's just oh my gosh i thought this was and then it's all the other stuff like ops and finance logistics and everything else in between that wasn't that wasn't anything that i thought of i just thought i'm going to just put everything that i can into making great product and the first product that i kind of ideated was so selfish because it was stuff that i just wanted to make yeah like it was like something i just wanted the best neutral eyeshadow palette and you know powder highlighters were all the the craze and i wanted to make the best one um and then we launched during covid with 10 lip skews five lip liners and five lipsticks and everyone was wearing masks and i just didn't care i just didn't care like and they flew and it was and it was nuts but putting the kind of secret effort in you know knowing every forward facing i was still doing all my youtube stuff and i was still doing all the social stuff i was also it was during lockdown so we were doing a bit of tv stuff for the bbc um so everyone that could see me from the outside just thought i was you know business as usual but in the background i was working really really hard on this brand really didn't tell anyone about it and i highly recommend that you know just say less don't don't tell everyone all your plans when they're still in the kind of early stages and why do you think that i think it keeps you really focused and it stops you from letting other people's opinions affect your opinion on yourself and what you're doing that sort of outside noise yeah it's um it's almost like if you just had a i'm trying to think of an example if you just had a great experience reading a book again right you loved it so much it's your favorite book and then you say to someone oh my god i just read this book and they turn around and they say i absolutely hated that book and they start picking all the holes in it this is a weird this is a weird example you would talk about but you know a book you didn't write it you just read it so it's not personal to you but see if there's something super personal to you that you're working on it's like when they say you should never tell people their baby names or the ideas you have for your child i was really funny about that i didn't tell any not even not even because and i remember i did it with my first and it's funny how people can then put you off oh well i knew a girl once that was called oh and she was terrible no don't do that name doesn't that remind you of or it sounds a bit like a and it's so true and i remember my mom saying well you shouldn't tell anyone your baby names because someone will always put you off yeah and i suppose maybe it's sort of applying that same sort of rule it's hard to filter out the outside noise when you hear it so you've got to be able you've got to be so confident in your own instinct in your own sort of gut and I remember when we launched the brand because I'd kept it so much to myself um and I literally launched I think there was a team of five or six of us um my CEO which we talked about already a little bit like I I knew I didn't want to be the CEO yeah um that my role is so much in the founder and i'm the cco so chief creative officer so everything that you touch and feel and see and use and click on and you know it's all of that is is me but um we kept it so much to ourselves so when we when we did launch it was purely online because it was covid but that's my territory like i felt really comfortable with that oh i mean that's of course it was actually you know and i remember thinking and i think we all did that launching in covid would be the most difficult thing ever absolutely not it was we launched in covid we launched my little cocoa in covid and did you feel the same way at the time first of all because it wasn't the plan was it none of us went do you know what we should do here guys let's launch in a fucking global pandemic because that you know no one knew it was happening but our launch was always going to be we launched i'll never forget february the 17th yeah and then obviously covid happened early march oh wow so you were just before we were just before right okay so we had like bells and whistles and then the world went into so i was like still washing their babies i know and you know what's so interesting we we launched but we also launched with boots okay they were pharmacy so they ended up being one of the only things that were open so it was like supermarkets and pharmacies and do you remember when you would just walk around a boots because there was nothing else to do so we sort of then inherited this like cult customer that was like you know people when they're on the good thing about a retailer like that is they're quite a considered shopper they want to look they want to read they want it's not like grabbing it on the on the shopping run because you need a bath wash so we sort of inherited that customer that was really considered because we had nothing else to do so i weirdly think that was kind of it was great for us you know like although we were scared at the time it was actually something that ended up being kind of quite important to us as a brand but yeah it's it's crazy isn't it like actually when you look back at the time it was kind of like oh my god and we were kind of just it was fighting through but when you look back actually not so bad yeah and also for you like you say launching with lips when everyone's wearing masks but actually we all wanted escapism i've never done my makeup so much than during covid when i was at home alone and i loved it because I think it really showed that people do their makeup for themselves.

37:15You know, no one was going out. Yes. No one was, you know, people were just still doing it. And there was the other side which people were just obsessed with their skincare and they did not wear a scrap of makeup. But for a lot of people that I know and a lot of my customers, they would sit on Instagram Live with me and do their makeup and we would chat rubbish about what TV we were watching because we were all alone in the house. And putting that face on makes you, it makes you feel good. I love it. And I think we were all hoping for like a brighter future weren't we so everyone's probably planning their look oh yeah on their debut night out yeah when boris says we can go to the clubs again like what are we you know what are we gonna do i think it was kind of like perfecting that glam so when i pop out i really pop out we were so excited so let's let's talk about so you kind of you know that you want to launch this brand you know you've got the appetite you kind of have almost a database already of people that are ready for you to do said brand how do you how does Jamie go about it what are the first steps you make because obviously when being creative is your forte everything else like building it raising money if that's going to look like funding or it is an absolute minefield when creativity is your shrink yeah so where how does it start what what do you what do you do first so the first thing I did was got help and then that help was one of my best friends she just graduated from Edinburgh Uni doing graphic design right so I am a bit of a tech wizz when it comes to certain things but when it comes to other things I'm not and I might be great at makeup I'm actually not a brilliant artist like I'm not good at drawing right so she um asked her do you want to work on this with me and I we work together so well she still is in the branches off on mat leave right now and I miss her so much that leaves one of those things you're like I don't want to rush you because I want you to enjoy your baby but I really want you back I know I know and I'm like so conscious not to talk about anything to do with work yes like it's so hard yeah but you're but um but I miss her so much but we've so we've worked together for for so long now and she basically took all my ideas and made them into something that I could visually see and that is so helpful when it came to working with labs and you know colors you know she I didn't really know much about pantones before working with her and she was you know we would lay it all out and it just it just made it so easy and so fun yeah because she's such a beauty junkie too and you know even in the in the brand she's called like my left brain because she knows the answers that I'll give before I give them yeah so it means that people can ask Charlotte sometimes instead of me it's so important to have that and when you connect with someone on that level and that can actually articulate what is in your brain yeah it's great it's so it's like oh god I would before I've had to explain this 5 ,000 times and you've just got it yeah you know and that's Charlotte so we we worked together and we just again it was really about the product and once all that was done you know I just I'd saved up as much money as I possibly could and then I think we started working out figures and again I had more help so I had my CEO at this point um and then i think the only other people that we had were social but i just i just remember we we figured out the numbers and i realized that however much money i had was enough maybe for the first drop that would sell out right so you were self-funding at the start at the start no no no that was my plan right so we realized that i had enough money to buy like a drop of stock and then we'd have to wait for the money to come in from that to then place orders which means we'd be out of stock for however many months and down on the cash flow and that's just not the way that you want to start especially you don't want to start a business and then just be out of stock for months and months so um that's when we realized that we needed funding and that was a choice you know that was a choice to make like i could have just funded it myself and had smaller drops and just but they would have just sold out and i didn't you know and then you end and then the knock-on effect if you're looking a sellout is great of course because an appetite there and then you've you've but then you've got nothing but then you've got nothing and then people lose interest they get impatient and they get pissed off sometimes they get pissed off so we um uh we i remember sitting on zoom and i was so terrified because i didn't know i didn't know what version of myself to be i think that's the thing that really kind of messed me up a little bit and what was this in in in what investor meetings so when we were almost like dating investors um i remember thinking and you dated some investors at some really big companies as well right yeah and the investors that we ended up going with and I say dating because it's like dating you're kind of like figuring out who's the right fit and who's gonna who's gonna bring something to your business and what are they gonna bring um but I remember just being on zoom and actually being so grateful it was zoom because I'm so comfortable online on screen that's your sweet spot so I was at home as well so I just it just helped the process along but actually um we ended up uh with venrex who were the really early on investors in charlotte tilbury as well and we it wasn't at all what i expected it would be you know i didn't know what to expect when going into meetings with investors um but what i assumed was going to be a lot of suits shirts and ties uh and men that thought i was daft uh and actually it wasn't that at all i told the story I told them about you know what I'm about and what I want this brand to be and and they just loved it and I felt really supported and I felt really encouraged and I didn't once I think I back then I did have a fear of feeling stupid because yeah that's not my background I've never been alien to you you don't know and also it's even little things like being in those rooms being on those zooms and not talking the same language I remember I'm like why does everyone abbreviate everything yeah talking like about three pls and this i'm like what the fuck does that mean i know you know and it's almost like you're just expected to know it as soon as you step foot in the door and then there's the that that kind of feeling stupid because you don't and then i remember literally being like googling something off the side on the side what is emv and i'm like actually it's quite sort of self-explanatory when you don't talk in a different language you know but it is it's mad isn't it and I think it's something that you know I've never been scared to ask questions and I've I think that that's almost the opposite of feeling stupid it's like well if I'm informed then it's empowering then then great and you just need to be confident enough to ask the questions and not feel stupid that you don't know everything who would know everything and that's also and I think that's that's been my toxic trait as well before you know previously it's actually not asking enough and I actually really enjoy being a sponge and absorbing you know I've got incredible women that like I've learned so much from just by being around and men too but actually there was a time a period of time where I felt stupid and you know was embarrassed that I didn't know but actually I was lucky that I worked with such incredible people that they kind of picked up on that and then I became really brave and asked the questions that you know ultimately I need to know because this is my brand and this is my baby I need to know exactly how this is going to work but it does it's a it's a gear shift yeah it really does it's really humbling it's really humbling when you go from like doing something that you know the ins and outs of and kind of you are it's like what you said if you're flying yeah and then you kind of go back to baby steps you're like oh but I feel like your brain needs that too definitely it's kind of it'd be a boring life to live in a place where you are the best at what you do and you are so secure in what you do and of course that idea is nice but it isn't a challenge no and I do like that I sort of think we all do I crave I mean some days I'm like why do I love the challenge so much I just think I need to rest I'm tired let me rest but it is so important I think to be able to keep growing yeah so you meet with the investors and then how does that look we signed the deal for the seed investment which is the the round of investment and it's funny I see instead of just saying things and thinking you know wondering if people understand or not I just always assume that there's more information the better yeah great so the round that comes before the brand launches basically so it gave us the money to be able to order enough stock and also forward plan something I couldn't believe I made this launch collection and then it was like right what's next I'm like what do you mean what do you mean what's next we focused on this I was like I've not even launched this yet can we do this first and they're like well you you need a plan you need a plan so that's when I learned you know you hear businesses working in February on Christmas that sounds like hell to me I am the dopamine addict I want someone to sit in my chair and have an hour to do their makeup and then that's a box ticked and then I've done it and now you know we worked one two sometimes like three years ahead yeah and you have to learn how to be able to dance between projects that have just launched even though you made it last you know it's just insane the kind of like the run rates and things but um we signed that seed investment on my 27th birthday um and i was so i was so excited and it just it just felt quite surreal we didn't launch the brand until november so we had that time and we you know we put a lot of investment into our launch shoot because um i there was already commentary on influencer brands and them not being credible or the products not having the quality or them not having the authority to be in that space.

46:50And I remember, you know, I'm a makeup artist from the start. I've always been obsessed with formulas. I've worked with so many customers. But being online, I actually don't know if all my community knew that about me. They might have found me later. They might have never cared about. Well, you don't know if you've got a follower when they stumble across you, do you? so we started you know that's the part where i've honestly i feel like i've kind of winged it wung it wind it my entire but like my career and there's there's thought put into it but because i'm so excited i can just turn things out and i've got an idea and i just go for it and you like to be reactive yeah and i've never you know i remember someone asking me what's your what's your like social calendar like and i'm like i don't know i was like we'll see we'll see what it's like tomorrow um but so much and looking back i can see how much i've changed in a way that is that is so much better for me working like i have a i have a plan now and i have there's more structure to my days and i think especially since having my daughter you know you need structure and you need boundaries and you need to be really clear with when you're doing certain things and when you're not um but it takes you a while to relax that though doesn't it it does it really does yeah but when you when you figure that out it's almost like you just kind of I don't it's almost like giving into it like okay and then it all starts to kind of work in a different way so there's maybe I was going to say like less freedom but maybe it's just less spontaneity and that's okay yes find it where you can get it it's so true and as your life changes you realize the focus is change and even like as the business changes the focus you know your focuses will also change as it moves and I think that is just part of it and being kind of fluid enough to move as your life and the business yeah moves so in 2022 this is 2020 2020 so then two years into the brand in 2022 you then raise the money so we raised again um which was uh uh a really different experience because the brand was you know it was it was there it was growing um and this is this is again something like I don't pretend I didn't do the due diligence I can't even say the word the due diligence that is probably the hardest word to say I still can't say it due diligence due diligence yes there you go there we go see good start um but my my team and by this point you know we're two years and I can't remember what size the team was but I think it was maybe 20 25 but we've got quite a big team um they took the areas that they needed to and they did like so much of the work so much of the work when it came to the actual investment you know my ceo totally led that um and i was there you know when i needed to be i was involved in the meetings to basically be a sponge and try and learn as much as i could but i knew that's just not my that's not my forte and it took so much time from the team to do that and trusting and knowing that you've got an incredible team that can do that and that's their expertise in the same way that you wouldn't expect I suppose your CEO to be blending formulas and coming up like yeah there's a reason that everybody has a role I think people talk about this quite often and being a founder of a successful business I think that your ego needs to be left at the door yeah you know you don't need to do everything for it to be a success you know your team's wins are your wins you know this is on my team someone's absolutely killing it doing all the paperwork for raising more money i'm like that go on girls yeah exactly but it's like but well done you first and foremost you know so i think um having a brilliant team and then micromanaging or you know essentially clipping their wings there's not a brilliant team anymore so um everyone on my team is phenomenal at what they do you know like and there's there's specifics that i just i almost can barely understand but like paid media and e-com you know i know what i want it to look like but the actual functionality of the website but i don't know oh my gosh no are you kidding me no so there's no like i don't pretend that i do everything and that everything is a success story for me because it's not but essentially it is because it's my business but when when i'm in my team it doesn't really feel like my business it feels like our business yes and i'm not just saying that to sound like a nice boss because that I don't even call myself a boss I really don't because it really I went into the office today no one knew I was coming in and I just went and sat at the table and we were all just sitting and chatting and getting our work done and you know it was just so fun it was so fun but everyone has got their heads down and they're getting on with what they need to do and we've got a lot of structure around that too so we're all on the journey together yeah that makes sense so what would your day-to-day role kind of look like now so it's a real mixture of things and i've kind of segmented it as well so the start of the week is always kind of full of meetings so we do tons of approvals so that's almost like a tandem meeting where i am or like a like a baton meeting where i go through every um function in the business and we have like a really considered catch-up and we go through approval so if there's any work that i need to see or any ideas that i need to see before they kind of start getting built out we'll go through that and it'll be like yep no what did you think about that um and it's really fun and the team are used to it's really fast paced but i work really well like that so we could we do that over two days and we've got big chunky meetings in both days we've got our weekly trade we've got a senior leadership meeting we've got i've got my one-to-ones with my ceo my cc uh cc exo my chief experience customer chief customer experience officer um and then we've got a meeting that's just about the kind of jg commercial side as well so how my commercial work is balanced out with the vaiv work um so there's tons of meetings at the start of the week and then i've got creative days where i get like briefed from the team so we'll sit and we'll look at all the social plans and we'll go through all those and we'll see what we want for emails website social if any press need content for their publications if I've got to like I'm always writing interviews I'll just get sent questions and then I'm tapping them up forever and always I find it really fun because I think at one point I would have really liked to have been a journalist but actually I actually wouldn't because I did really shit in English when I was in high school um so it's really it's really fun and it's really varied and then some weeks as well you know some weeks I'll be at home working remotely then sometimes I'm down and I'm doing stuff like this or like different opportunities and some opportunities I'm like oh my god I don't want to do that it's too scary um and then I'll force myself to do it and it'll be brilliant and then you'll be so pleased you did and then I'll be so pleased that I did so um and you know the team as well they they almost like laugh because they're like we've got something's come through and I'm like I'm not gonna like this I'm not gonna like this and it's not because um it's not because it's not brilliant and I'm not excited about it I'm just like I can't do that like I'm nervous it takes right your comfort zone yeah yeah but I feel like if you think about your story that first YouTube has always been out of your comfort zone and like yeah look what happens yeah right but it's funny I think but I think because of um I just don't think I'm maybe as extroverted as people think yes and I think that happens when people are sort of in the public eye or like online and you're accessible in that way I think people assume that like you're going to be really confident or like and confident you are but I mean like you're going to be super outgoing and you're going to want every opportunity but actually it's that's your comfort zone and you're happy there yeah and it's very different like doing a video on YouTube and like you're in the in your own four walls it doesn't totally when you post it you don't really realize that there are so many eyes on it right because it's such a kind of safe space yeah definitely I did I did a thing recently and it was hosting and I was so stupid and like naive because I read it and I was like oh so nice I'll go and I'll have a chat with someone on stage I didn't realize it was me hosting the event so I had to go out on stage in front of I don't know how many people it was I think it was like 600 um and introduce them to eat to the evening and introduce the guest and facilitate a whole conversation and I was like I have never done anything like this in my life.

55:14I would imagine you'd be so good at that though. You're such a good talker. It was really fun. And then afterwards I actually was quite buzzing and I was like, oh, that was nice. That was good. You see? There's a theme here. There's a theme here. I just, I want to just quickly pick up on the, that kind of first round of funding. Cause we often, we often talk about this and we had Atay Jewel. and who is incredible for we did a week of like lift off week we called it and it was so brilliant to I've known her for a little while but to really hear her story because I suppose she's lesser known but she's really trying to you know she's going for it and she's really trying to get her message across she's so brilliant but she spoke about funding in the beauty industry

56:06which can be really tricky to get and to have that access but when you have, she's got so many brilliant plans and she's got stuff ready to go but when a product is quite expensive to get out it can be quite a tricky one as we spoke about before that you can have enough for that first round but if it sells well, placing that order until it's sold is quite difficult so she was talking about uh trying to do another round of investment which can prove quite difficult would you have any advice to other founders but especially women navigating that first round or indeed that second round i think the advice that i would give is definitely from the place that i sit when it comes to when when we've raised how you raise yeah and it is um it is the confidence in what you're doing and the evidence to back up what you're doing is going to work or has worked already right and the kind of untapped opportunities that are going to have um results basically so whenever i've sat down and talked with investors i do my best to to really kind of shed any anxiety that i've got because you're being intimidated it's scary yeah it's really scary and it's also you're up for again opinions and it's like what you can do people say this often don't they that they get told no so many times and they keep on going back or they keep on trying and then you know and then it just works one day or they get it and i think it's taking the the emotional side out of what anyone's got to say about what you're doing yeah but keeping all the emotion and the excitement and what you're doing and loving it so much and that's why loving what you do is so important because even it's really hard that's what gets you through and that's what keeps you going um when it comes to talking with investors as well the the thing that they always ask is what's your usp your unique selling point i used to hate that question i used to hate it just let me just let me do it it's almost like it's so true it's almost like if somebody was to like if you used to have to be on an app to describe yourself it's like sum up yourself in three words it's a little bit like one of those questions when you you're just soul dies a little bit but of course you need you need a usp we know that but the the delivery of that is a bit icky isn't it yeah and it's also like so much the usp i think sometimes people think straight to product what's different about your product and at the end of the day there's so much makeup out there there's so much skincare out there um but maybe it's the way that you talk to your customer maybe it's the way that you formulate ingredients maybe it's you maybe it's you like full stop maybe it's just you you're looking at her so i think the the worst thing to do in a situation where you're talking with investors is at all alter yourself to be more palatable to them yeah because at the end of the day that's not what they're there for they want to see what you are really about and what your vision is and if you are a founder of a brand which you know most of the time that's the situation you'll be in um they're not they're they're investing in your business but they really are investing in you so i think that there's a lot of work to be done on one's self which is like a whole other thing I think like I think it's I think it's a pretty nuts um oversight on my part when I started the business versus me now yeah yeah I think that's so much self-work to be done isn't there and actually like but knowing that like you just think you can turn up as if you think about you then and you now it would be a different person same core but actually sometimes it takes a different person and that's yeah what growing is and there's just there's tons that you'll learn about yourself and especially in the difficult parts of having a business but it's kind of everything as well like i think being becoming a mum for sure you learn a lot about yourself right um but doing the work on yourself it just you you shed so much of the weight that holds you back yeah and then you look back at things that you said or that you didn't say yes to and you're like oh my god why yes because i was scared so i think it's interesting so that that's my advice for investors it's less about the numbers less about the um i don't know any of the kind of actual uh due diligence yeah yeah yeah but actually like you don't kind of like you say make yourself more palatable to them that's really that's really really important well i'll do a rocket round now yeah okay i love this so this is essentially supposed to be quick fire but you're like me you like to talk so let's see how we do no no I like it it's good we look with some things you need to elaborate on but it's supposed to be quick right I say this to every guest because we start talking for over an hour and I'm like okay fine let's make this quick ish um what do you believe are the non-negotiables for launching a business uh passion a plan that's important yes especially if you're not a plan man which I was not a plan man um team nice customer yes yeah it's fine you can top of the pops yes when did you first realize that you truly launched and you were onto something i actually think the day that we signed the investment deal on my birthday it's my favorite birthday ever for loads of reasons the sun was out but that that day i realized that i think you know it's so important to believe in yourself and at the end of the day that's all you've got but when other people believe in what you're doing it's always nice cherry on top what's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed uh first thing i do is go and get my daughter who's shouting mommy yeah whether you want to or not with your eyes shut so i go i go and get romes and we go downstairs half asleep and she starts chatting away to me uh last thing i do before going to bed um kissing the cheek from my husband that's so nice yeah nice all about the family yes at the core of everything that's it that's it one piece of a device that you wish you hadn't listened to that's so good that question yeah um there's always there's always something isn't there that you think i wish i hadn't i should have gone with my own gut on that and not listen to um maybe like letting maybe it's less about i can't remember someone actually giving me this advice but letting the plan dictate 100 % what you're doing yes because if you get a gut feeling that something's not right then something's not right yes and things need kind of ripped up and maybe need to start again yeah yeah one skill you'd love to learn excel me too maybe i see i see i see people and i think um maybe maybe even graphic design as well see if i could do some of that myself yes that would be great i would really enjoy that i say that that's always when people answer these questions that's always my answer i'd love to learn graphics but i also think i'd be dangerous i don't think i'd sleep no if i did know how to do it i'd just be like wired constantly always at the laptop like I know I would we need to like give away those pieces just to keep our sanity um what's one thing you wish someone had told you before you started your business that's a good one as well um

1:03:45that is a roll like roller coaster all all the time it's not it's just not plain sailing it's not plain sailing but that's fine and without the you know the lows you wouldn't get the ups and um not to be negative at all it's just it basically is like when it's a tough day that's that's gonna change yes and knowing that it's temporary what would be your dream collab for the brand oh i love that i love that collabs are such a thing now i love them yeah it's so like when you see two brands come together that you're like oh my gosh but yes i get it it makes sense do you know there's there's a few brands that i just love and think are so cool and i've not properly fleshed out an idea but i love way jenny atkin oh i just think she's i just think she's amazing she's amazing as well um she's she's a proper like icon to me um and then i really love i quite like classic brands like my suitcase i'm obsessed with i got it for my 30th birthday and every time i use it i feel so happy and it's my remora case so chic yes i know what you mean it's like it just brings it makes you feel yeah yeah joy um there's nothing like traveling with some like a bit of luggage that you're like oh yeah yeah and then actually i really love home stuff I love Soho Home stuff so much and I think that I kind of love Veve as a brand you know we're a makeup brand but because of the way that we talk with our customer and the way that we share things we really extend past that all the time so I quite love that they're kind of like that's hair, travel and home yeah, there you go love that which is a big part of a person's life so yeah, they work, it works if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present, who would it be?

1:05:33I actually think Jen Atkin she's the first person that always pops up in my mind and I've spent some time with Jen and she's so forthcoming and she really does bring the women up around her Emma she's incredible and again the same she always says this line about she's opening the door and dragging women through it and I think that is what it takes and I don't know Jen but I really get that from her following her on socials you really she's really generous with her advice and yeah sincere she's built a like an amazing platform for hairstylists too so i've seen the highlight artists yeah she's not gatekeeping at all and she constantly clients will come to her and she'll say i'm not available but this person from my team is and it's just like like sharing it all out i think it's fab yeah i love it but i do think and i say this a lot but i do think there's definitely a way an american way that's like networking is such a kind of is second nature to them and connecting people is so and I love that but here it seems a little bit more gatekeepy or if I give it to you I'm going to take it from me and that's just that's not what this is about that's why we do this yeah um I ask each guest to leave a tip one piece of advice like a tangible actionable piece of advice for ladies looking to launch if you had something that you could tell our listener that's looking to do I suppose something in a similar vein to you what would that bit of advice be I think that there's an actionable thing for sure and it is it's to write everything down and I don't mean um that you can mind map and you can just like you know basically just brain dump onto a page but the real like powerful thing i think is if you start writing and you keep writing for seven minutes don't think about what you're writing you know as soon as you stop to think just start writing i'm stopping to think as soon as you write like that for seven minutes you start tapping into a subconscious and it's unbelievable what spells out on the page and when you're finished writing just close your book put it away and then come back and read it later and if you can read it out loud and it's amazing what you will tell yourself because it's not what you think it's not sitting and writing down a story that you're conscious of it's amazing and i think what that does is it really helps you unpack things that need to be unpacked so you can just be completely empowered so what what i talked about a little bit about that this kind of self-worth and feeling worthy of what you're doing and being excited about it and not letting um your kind of blinkers down so you can really like go full steam ahead with a really excited energy doing that doing that so they sound kind of like separate but they've come together so much and it really is about being empowered by what you're doing and your capabilities i love that you're so right just writing for like writing sake like when was the last time that you did this like i hadn't done it since probably school yeah and you and everyone talks about journaling and like doing that first thing and last thing at night but yeah i've never had the seven minute thing before yeah so if you set a timer even for like 10 minutes and you just keep writing and you can write about like reflect so it's reflective writing so write don't just write about you don't need to write it nonsense a to-do list yeah but if you write about your day or like say say you're in work or you're you're working through a meeting or something and something happens and you're really ruminating on it start writing about it and just keep on going and it will unpack what it is that really bothered you about that meeting and usually um what's the saying you know if there's ever an issue when you're pointing at someone there's three fingers pointing back so any kind of feelings that come up it just helps you work through and it helps you understand you know if you feel stupid yes or if you feel you know annoyed um you know stuff like that it's amazing for unpacking that i love that that's a really good tip i love that and then lastly i always like to leave on knowing what you have for your lunch because we talk about ladies who launch but I like to know I'm also a lady who likes to lunch I love lunch and it doesn't happen as often as we want sometimes it's like like today for example I'm probably gonna get a there's a jar in the juice opposite it's not an ad um over and get a little spicy tuna after this um but how does a sort of typical if you're at the office or however that looks, how would you spend your lunch hour?

1:10:08What are you eating? Where are you? So most of the time I'm at home I love a sandwich Go on, what's in it? Oh my god, a whole multitude of things I love a little bit of rotisserie chicken Oh girl, this went bougie Meenies, some tomatoes and lettuce Stunning Eggmeal, big fan of eggmeal I think it's underrated I don't like how weird is this I don't like egg but I quite like an egg mayo sandwich just mayonnaise yeah it's basically just mayo isn't it yeah I love a cheese and tomato I love it all what's the bread oh my god white hovis toasted bread listen nothing to be don't have to recline in your seat there's nothing to be ashamed of that bright orange paper packet yeah that's a good one I hate hate sourdough do you it's too hard okay I always get a sore mouth I know that's so but as soon as I see it I'm like that no no thank you I'll give me a white bit of sandwich bread any day do you see this starts light but everybody gets passionate when you start talking about lunch actually my favourite thing ever is cheese and onion toasty oh yes unbeatable with like one of those old school like Breville machines seals it in a little triangle and you put butter on the outside and the yeah that is do you know what actually I'm going to get a Breville for the office I think you should that would be great wouldn't it at lunch it's a cheese and onion toast yeah we'll put a candle on we'll put a candle on thank you so much I've absolutely loved talking to you and you are bossing it in every sense of the word and I love it I love to see a good girl win and it looks like it's going incredibly well for you I'm so excited to be on this chair thank you it's a new chair too it's a new one we're a new home thank you I love that That was so nice.

1:12:06Don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure that you don't miss out because next time we're going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched. If like me, you're a watcher, follow us on YouTube and please don't forget to like and subscribe.