Ep 40: From Teenage Entrepreneur to Interior Design Pioneer: Lessons from Kelly Hoppen CBE

0:11On today's episode, I'm joined by one of the most influential interior designers of our time, Kelly Hoffman CBE. After beginning her journey at just 16 years old, she has forged an iconic career spanning decades. She has transformed spaces for celebrities, royalty and global brands. So let's find out why she's a lady who launched. I'm so pleased that we are sitting down finally. I know that we've spoken before at a big live event, which I loved. And when I shared that we'd spoken, everyone was like, we didn't get to see it. We wasn't there. Please get Kelly on. So I'm so pleased that we're getting to do this.

0:54No, I'm thrilled because I felt like we didn't have enough time the last time. There was so much more we could have talked about. We just got started. Yeah, I know. You're so right. We're just scratching the surface. I always like to start these conversations in the same way because I think every single woman that I've spoken to on this podcast I feel like it's become pretty clear that we learned so much about ourselves as founders about women in business in and around the industry we learned so much in those younger years and I think they shape us in some way whether we realize it at the time it kind of sort of raised its head a little bit later on so tell me a bit about your upbringing and I suppose growing up the impact that you think that's had on you and your life yeah I mean totally I always think you know the early years of your life and the way that our parents bring us up are so incredibly important to who we become and there are a lot of things that we look back and think that was irritating you know my parents would always take us to museums and art galleries and get us to write essays about our trips away you know whereas we would want to be on the beach but actually when I look at what I do today and how much of that influenced me without me even realizing it or the fact that my parents would entertain a lot but they would have all their friends and kids in the same room having lunches and dinners and wherever we were and I would be like I don't want to be with my parents but actually I learned so much about life and how communication with people and nurturing friendships and enjoying meeting new people and being encouraged by things that you hear and how you might think that your road is destined but it isn't you know there are all these little roads that go off it so when you meet someone else and they inspire you.

2:53So I think a lot of my childhood was about people, about the arts, about eating around a table, listening to people, learning about things. And I think that because I started a business at 16 and a half, you know, people still say, how did you do it? And for years, I've gone, well, I just did. But actually, sometimes I think, well, how did I? But I think actually my upbringing kind of took me to that to the point that I just felt confident enough that I knew that's what I wanted to do. That's so interesting isn't it and that you had that kind of support network to do so I suppose. Yeah definitely.

3:34Where were you? So where did you grow up and how did that look? What did your parents do? So I was born in South Africa but I left when I I was two. So we came to London. My father was English. My mother is South African. My father went on the QE2 over to South Africa, met my mother. She wanted to get out of South Africa, so fell in love with my dad. They came back to London. My father was in men's fashion. And my mother had an amazingly interesting career. She was an antiquarian. Well, she studied law, so she was a barrister. but she became an antiquarian book dealer specializing in maps of Africa.

4:17That turned into, and you'll love this, she suddenly realized that, and she was so stylish and beautiful and people would want to go and meet her because she was renowned for what she did, thinking she'd be a little old lady and she was fabulous in her jumpsuits and hair tied back and Gucci belt and all of that. But she realised really early on that either you could afford masters, Picassos on your wall, or you could buy a poster. And because she collected books, rare books all her life and was interested in that, she decided to buy lots of books of things that she loved, not maps. And she would break the books up.

4:59And she went to Italy and got these incredible Jezo frames. And she started like creating these art pieces and walls of art in a gallery. And people from all over America would fly her over to do hang art and do these creations. But she then took it one step further and found artists and kind of was in the forefront of knowing what people wanted, like a trendsetter. So she created Escafé, Poncele, you remember the dogs with the. Yes. Yeah, that was my mother. all of these things and employed these artists who got a royalty and she then took that into licensing and did cards with hallmark and whatever so she was a true entrepreneur like so ahead of the curve so I was surrounded by this creativity with fashion art music all of this and so that was kind of my upbringing around all of this.

6:01My mother had amazing style. And the other day, I found a great picture of her lying on her bed that was in what was then like the Hello magazine on a kind of zebra fabric on her bed and this fabulous outfit. And I was going, God, the apple doesn't fall from the tree. But she was a real trendsetter, but highly intelligent and interesting so that was my upbringing really that is so cool and I suppose you're just without even knowing it just a sponge yeah you're just taking it all in soaking everything up I mean well it sounds quite apparent you know you've got a busy household you're entertaining the home is clearly very very important to you but as is being a creative where did that love for interior design to start?

6:54And did you even know that interior design is what that love was? Yeah. So my grandmother's home, I write in one of my books, was really the seed for me. So if I was to show you pictures of her home in Cape Town, it was nothing like what I do, but it was how I felt in it. Everything from the smell of the cedar cupboards to the coffee in a cupboard to the way we would pick our hydrangeas and lay the tables and entertain and family and everything. That was every Christmas for me. That was my happy place, my grandparents' home. And I just, it did something to me. If I could have bottled that, you know, it would have just been something.

7:37And then my mother also had that. So from a very early age, when I was in London, every weekend my mum would say, what do you want to do this weekend? And I never wanted to sort of go out and play with friends because I was bullied at school. I go, let's go and see show flats. That's what I wanted to do on weekends. Yeah. And I would page through Architectural Digest and see the before and afters. And then my mum would say she'd go out for dinner. She'd come back and somehow I pushed furniture around the living room and restyled it at the age of like eight or nine. And I'd always be tidying things up in the house and in my bedroom.

8:14And at the age of 12, redesigned my bedroom from a girly pink bedroom to sort of, it sounds awful now, brown suede, fake suede walls. That's right up my shirt. OK, with a trim in chrome and chrome chairs and shutters. And, you know, so from an early age, I knew that's what I wanted to do. That's so interesting. And you describe spending time in your grandma's home and I suppose that being really special to you. What was the feeling that you loved rather than the style of the home? It was the experience of it. So I've always said in all my books, way back to the first one, it's not what's in the house first and foremost.

9:01It's how you feel. And, you know, you're very much like that. If you go into, you know, my partner always laughs and says, we go to a hotel. He waits in reception till I've gone up to the room. I've checked it all out because there's going to be about five changes before, you know. So he's having a drink downstairs because you feel when you go into someone's home, if it feels right. And great design is about not being able to put your finger on a coffee table or a chair. It's about how you felt in that moment in someone's house. and good design is when someone comes to your home for dinner and they come back again and they go oh my god is that new and you go no it's been there from day one it's not about clocking everything in the room it's like fashion what was it about that everything worked she just had it it's about how you feel in a space so that's what I took from my grandparents was how brilliant I felt and it was everything it was about the people it was about the smell the food the cooking the beds the everything rolled into one I wanted to be able to create that for people and that's what I've done all my life really so special to be able to do that like it's such such a skill as you say and I've never actually thought about it before but I suppose everything has to just feel seamless And it doesn't, like you say, notice in something new every time, but it not being new.

10:25But think about it now when you're designing your new home. Yes, you'll do your boards, your designers or you put it together. But I always say to my clients, try and close your eyes and think about being in that space. And what does that feel like when you're going into another space or your kids come running in? And, you know, you can really build a home around the feeling rather than what it looks like first. and that's exactly how it should be in a home yeah it's exactly each home is so personal I suppose and you'll know that with your clients it's so personal to that individual and creating the feeling that I suppose they want and if you pick the right clothes like we know as women you know not if you would pick in your mind the clothes you're going to wear for seven days probably three of those days would work out the rest when you put it on wouldn't yeah because of how you feel yes you're so right so how you feel in your clothes can make such a difference to your day I've had days where I've got dress and one thing has niggled me and it just so stupid because it shouldn't change your day but how you feel in your skin and clothes is the same as when you design yeah yeah so important I've never actually seen it like that before it's so so interesting because it is it's a feeling as opposed to aesthetic yeah but that kind of has to marry doesn't it?

11:44You touched on not having the best time at school. Why was that, do you think? God knows. I probably was awful. I'd like to think that it wasn't me, but probably the fact that I would go to my grandparents' home every year in Cape Town and I'd come back and tell everyone about it. Maybe people didn't like that, but I was bullied and I was just surrounded. I was unlucky that there were girls that were just that kind of bully and I'm a real pioneer and worked with the Diana Awards you know for many years about it because I if I hear that any child even a child I don't know has been bullied at school I'm I'm ready you know it kills me inside isn't it and I think it's so interesting I my eldest is she's 12 so it's a bit it's sort of that tricky age where there's sort of first she'll be going into the second year of like secondary school age and the dynamics and I've really noticed it now of how that changes and you know and how girls are to each other and I think oh god if I could shield her from anything in life it's so it brings out this lioness in you and I wasn't a victim of bullying or but my daughter's definitely going through a touch of that at the minute and it is so difficult and it's so hard to watch but also know how to well how to handle it so what I found fascinating the other day was my daughter and I were talking about something similar and she said something that really resonated she went I will never want my child to be a victim of bullying I was a victim right and she was saying there are ways of dealing with it so that you're the child who is being bullied deals with it in a way that they are they are more empowered yes I wasn't right so I became the victim so still today there are occasions in my life where I will see somebody talking in another room quietly together it will bring back a memory of something that happened to me so it was very ingrained in scars in me it's triggering triggering you know um but yeah it was just I hated schools so for me to get out and start a business I thank that from happening because it gave me the power and the tenacity to go oh you I'm gonna go out and be my own boss and find your own people find my own people in my own world I you know it was just not an option so that's how it happened so for you that was at 16 yeah 16 16 and a half everyone always laughs but it was a big deal that half year.

14:33It is when you're 16. So tell me about this. Because that is very young, not just sort of look to work, but to start a business. But that's the little steps that I always tell people. To start a business, because everything's on Instagram today, everybody assumes fame is overnight and there are a lot of people on Love Island that get fame overnight and 3 million followers on Instagram. it's that's not reality that's not a sustainable organically grown business so when I started my business it was a friend of my stepfather's basically choosing a kitchen and putting it in and managing the build right the business really began when a girlfriend of mine was having an affair with a very famous racing driver and he said he wanted both of us to do up his home but basically he wanted me to do it so that he could be with the girl oh my gosh right hang on a minute this is like a netflix i know so i'm buckled up that was my in to interior design an incredible house in the middle of the boltons designing something but that's fine i knew how to design it i had to find my own builders my own manufacturers source things or whatever That's where I was resourceful.

15:54I could do that. That came from my mum. That was the same brain, you know. And you didn't have Google. You didn't have any of that stuff. It was getting in a car, driving, you know, networking, finding people. But I did it. Build a team. And from that job, I got a string of racing drivers, Grand Prix racing drivers, actors and other people through word of mouth. and my first very well-known client basically said please don't tell anyone about the house or whatever and from that day I never told anyone who I worked for because I was so scared that I would lose the job so only if a client mentioned it to the press and actually it was something that taught me you don't have to talk about who you work for because you are chosen on the basis of what you do what you bring to the table you know yeah so it was a real lesson it's because it's it's a very young age to know what you want to do that be so ingrained with you throughout your childhood from being at your grandma's house to sort of being a sponge around your parents starting that business knowing that actually hey i can i've now built a team and probably at the time you don't even realize what you're doing you're just trying to make the job happen but was it quite apparent to you from the jump that you were really going down the right path because obviously lots of us have several different jobs to find the thing that sticks or you can have a passion for something but you know something doesn't quite align to be able to know where you want to be have that feeling and then almost be going down that right 100 percent And one thing I do remember is I never questioned that I was doing the right thing.

17:48Like I knew that was my my that was what I wanted to do. There was never a question in that. And actually, you know, my mom would always give me good advice. My dad, you know, when he was alive, told me, you know, in business, you only spend what you can. My mother told me you get the VAT money. You open another account. the best advice she ever gave me that's not your money then this is what you know so and I've never been good with money so this you know I like learned everything I used to write all my own orders I would do everything I only had one assistant for many years and then a girl came to me and said I will work for you for nothing I was already kind of quite well known in my field maybe 22 and she said I will work for you until you realize you can't live without me and she stayed with me for 10 years.

18:40And that's how I started to build the business. Then I moved out of home after the kids went to school and got a studio. And so I, you know, kids were always first because I had two stepkids as well and grew the business. So when they were all at boarding school, because Natasha decided to go with Sierra and Savannah, I was like, what do I do from three o 'clock in the afternoon? What did I do? I just ran with the business. And that's when it just exploded um and yeah it was I never looked back ever it's it's so great to hear your your like your tenacity and your you're knowing that this is right and knowing that this is what you want to do and keeping at that and moving with that momentum because if you talk about starting a business at 16 the career and the business that you've managed to sustain is so so powerful yeah but remember when you're that young fear doesn't come into it yeah right if we were to start a business today at my age you would be fearful of things going wrong because you're thinking too much I think when you're younger that one thing that you've got that prize that you're holding is you don't really care because if it doesn't work you just do something else and that actually is the one cell that an entrepreneur has that if something doesn't work you're just like okay fine on to the next that's just inbred in an entrepreneur's brain and I'm not saying that there weren't many times I tripped up and fell or didn't work but those were the moments that I grew even bigger and I always say to people you need to fall to to get to that next phase in your career and it still happens today things happen all the time where you just think oh that's a bummer okay right what's next because it's already there the next yeah it's just waiting you know yes you're so right and it's just knowing which you just navigate you just gotta navigate it might be a slight wrong term but it leads you onto the right the right track eventually so let's go back to you being sort of 22 you've got the these kind of high profile clients you're really gaining that word of mouth is everything I suppose at that point because that's long before social media and being able to share projects in real time and there's a whole different sort of landscape newspapers that you were put in or magazines but then you know 23 I get pregnant and have a baby me too I was I was 23 when I got yeah so then I just shut the business down for a year who thought you could do that I literally just shut it down what and said that is it we're not I want my bit I want to spend time with Natasha you know but towards the end of that year when I was 24 I was like well hang on a minute I need to get back to work so then I did the juggling thing so I kind of had that amazing year off but I was that is such a brave thing to do too like that is yeah that was brave yeah and instantly did you know closing the business for a year was that kind of a non-negotiable because I think I didn't know what I was doing I just shut it I literally I remember the day that I was just like okay that's it but I didn't even think I was so young and I was pregnant for nine months obviously but didn't realize until nine months that I was pregnant I was kind of just kind of like I was like yeah I'm pregnant yeah oh I'm actually pregnant do you know what I mean I remember it so much because I was the same I got pregnant we got married and I got pregnant and I was even I think about it now like and I think about my sisters and my siblings I think gosh 23 was so young like I got married at 23 then fell pregnant about two three months later so I was just 24 in the March and Alay arrived in the May and I so know the feeling that you described because I just remember talking like I'd bump into someone I'd be like yes I'm pregnant but I didn't really it's all a blur when I think back like I don't think I really connected the dots yeah it was okay I'm pregnant and I'm gonna I'm in a girl band what a girl band I'm pregnant isn't that like against the law I remember watching television and suddenly seeing a foot come out it was like altered states I was like get it out that was the moment you know it's funny and I don't know if that is a because it is young isn't you're still kind of figuring everything out but what I admire is I was probably sort of in reverse to you like really I remember thinking that I had and I think actually by others I did I was almost made to feel like that too I felt that I'd let everybody down by having a baby oh incredibly so and I think it was really sort of felt like I was pregnant but I was in a girl band so I was trying to be right yeah so you had other people trying to not be pregnant even though everybody knew it was like it was almost felt like I had a hangover so I couldn't talk about it so you felt sick it was like you didn't want to and then even coming back I remember us having a single that was out like I don't know five weeks after a lair was born and I remember she was probably four or five weeks old and I was like on Lorraine or Good Morning Britain doing a performance I remember like my boobs leaking I like squeeze myself into some spanks and I look back and I think got like yeah I'm almost like annoyed at myself for just not but I don't think I really understood the impact of having a baby and what that meant to me and how I should have just let myself rest and kind of really got my head around the whole experience but I was so scared of ruining it and is that the end of my career and how does that look that I just kept going where I never thought it was at the end of my career I just thought great I'm having a baby but I didn't really understand what that meant but I am so glad I did then because now you know our relationship and I have a grandson and it's just like everything is good and I look at people in my studio now because I have a lot of staff and they're from the ages of 23 up but people today women have babies way later and you know everything's changed people live longer people have babies later but I'm glad I did it young I am you know I am and I think the grass is always greener isn't it and I think like some of my best friends are starting now and like you know I'm in my late 30s but I kind of and everyone says to me do you think we'll have one more and I'm like I did it at the front end you know I've got to be someone's crazy auntie now you know when everyone was in ibiza i was indoors with a baby and it kind of there is a period of time when you have a baby young that it is a little bit isolating if your friends aren't doing it now it's fun now it's the best ever and obviously you wouldn't change a thing but i admire you so much for sort of whether you meant to or not at the time just well i didn't mean to and i didn't mean to have two stepchildren either like that early on but actually i wouldn't change anything for the world you know instant big family it was brilliant so nice and that goes back to those times that you love having everyone around the table and everyone arguing and you know that's all life all of that you know and now I see it with my children you know my daughter and step daughters they've all got families and everything and you kind of see it all again so nice it's so so special so going back to you having your daughter and closing the business when you decided okay I'm ready I'm ready to pick this back up again open the doors what was that moment like and was it quite a challenge from going quiet to sort of letting everyone know hi I'm back doing this again or was it as soon as you press go it was quite hard to probably the most difficult time and I was heavily as I always am into gym and working out and I was going down to pineapple studios you know pretty much every day training um and I met this girl very stylish girl and we started chatting in the gym and whatever and you know and she said oh I love interior design I love what you do and you know I hadn't been really working that long but people knew my style the hop and style and I just sort of went well why don't we start a business together the big mistake so you know I I didn't need to share but I was so scared to go back to work you know as a new mother so we started a new business and that lasted probably three years because I was the grafter.

27:35She wasn't. And it was just wasn't worth. Right. But the first year was lovely having that companionship. So to feel like I could get back into work, because regardless of what anyone says, your hormones take another nine months to go back. And yeah, I was very vulnerable. I was very young and I didn't know quite how to do it. Once I got over that little partnership and little kind of blip in the business, then I was like, boom I you know I am Kelly Hop and I know how to do this I can do it on my own and so it was a process but from that day on there was no stopping me at all wow at all when I grew up and I definitely grew up in a time where you know it's my mum and the way I was raised was in terms of values and morals and everything else in between it was it's very similar to how I raise my children we're obviously in a very different financial position that my mum was in when she raised me and and i don't think i'd have i knew anybody that had an interior designer i don't that wasn't kind of our world in our circle my mum i don't think anyone probably went to b and q and decided what we were having and that was quite a fun thing that we like to do together but i when i think of putting interior designers on the map in the mainstream publicly there's only one person I think of and that's you you're the first kind of interior designer that I that I kind of remember knowing if that makes I've been shouting about it for so long but I think it's so interesting the concept of you know that being something and I think you what you did too is by putting it on the mainstream and that not being you know in circles that could afford it you sort of brought that sort of made it accessible, made it accessible.

29:29And I think that's what, for me, and I was actually discussing when I was talking to my mum and my aunt, actually, my aunt last night, and I was saying, I've got Kelly Hoppin on together, and they're like, oh, I love her. And they love your bits on This Morning, and they're like, when you're on and she's on, I love it. But I think it's, there's, you brought that kind of, we can all have a piece of this elite pie. And I think there's something so brilliant about there and something so genius about that opening the doors to, I suppose, the little black book of the. I don't think I was genius when I started it.

30:07I know that. So it's kind of two answers, really. So at that point, I was approached by a lot of brands to do licensing. And because my mother had done licensing and I read everything Martha Stewart had ever done, I was obsessed with her. I knew how to get into that. So that's how the brand happens. And just for like listeners listening to this, how would that proposition look for you? So like Wedgwood came to me and said, we'd love to do a license with you. You can go into our archives and design an incredible range. And I'd be like cool as cucumber and then go outside and go, you know. And then I would design something and be flown to America and launch that.

30:52And from the back of that, Frete would come to me and ask me to do it. And that's how it kind of went. And it made really good money. And so that's why I got into product design. Whereas like in COVID, I was going on this morning and doing it from home. And because everyone was looking into everyone's homes because we were stuck in it, I suddenly went, oh, hang on a minute. it I've been doing the very highest end for my entire life I now want to create a range for everyone and that's how Marks and Spencer came about so that was very much thought out whereas at the beginning of my business when all of these brands started coming to me that just was something that unfolded in front of me but it made me grow the business from interior designer and architect to product designer to creating my own brand so that the day somebody went that's very hoppen you know that you become an adjective you know people often say what were the defining moments most people would say getting a cbe like i got or i don't know terence conran saying i want you to write a book for me but for me it was that i've never forgotten it that's very kelly hoppen that actually makes my yeah like that was the most specialist thing because then you know you've what you're designing is generic enough that it works and that so the neutral thing and that whole kind of design ethos that I had was all about creating the backdrop for people to put their own identity into their homes right um but that for me was like that was it that's crazy yeah And I think when you're doing those kind of licensing deals, right, particularly if you start in that space, it kind of gives you a license, for want of a better word, to test that market.

32:53The risk isn't on you. You're kind of having the fun and doing the creative. Because it's a big risk. It's a huge risk. Huge amount of money. We still do licensing deals. You know, I was in talks this morning on something I really want to do. and you know if you've got to put all of the money up front to manufacture it distribute it you know to anyone listening to this that is a full-time job that I'm not qualified to do and as you go through business and as an entrepreneur you realize you do what you're good at and you have to find the people that can support you to do those things for you in your business and that is a really big moment I can't be good at everything you know and but I know what I'm really good at and if I focus on that and find the other what I call um soldiers that create your army that support you because you know they say it takes a village to bring up a child or whatever the expression is I've probably got it wrong I'm good at malapropisms I think it is but um I know that in my business my team and everyone around me make it possible yeah so I think yeah licensing is a great thing to do I I enjoy licensing obviously and we're I suppose we're both very fortunate that you know I do both I have a couple businesses but I also love you know I do licensing with Next where I put edits and ranges together and I've always loved doing it I have so much fun And it is kind of I really notice those moments now where something is mine and something is my baby and the headache and the joy and everything else in between that it gives me.

34:33But then when I pop in for those licensing moments and you can see you enjoy it because the product is so good. Everything you do about it is brilliant. And I think in business, you know, you're a perfect example. Like what everything you do, you shine. It's like you it's got a positiveness about it. It's authentic, you know. and authenticity is really important. And as you grow older and you become wiser, you look back at times in your business where you think, oh, I could have done that differently. But as you grow in a business, you know what's right. You know what tone of voice you need. You know how to be with people.

35:09You know how to get things done, you know. And I think the enjoyment you get out of something ends up in somebody else's home or on someone or someone sitting on it or whatever. If it's designed and created with that intention, it's received better. Yeah, you're so right. And it's clear. You can't fake that. You can't hide, yeah. And you can't, I don't think you can sell to people if that isn't there. I don't think you kind of want to be able to, that was that phrase where someone says, I'm buying what you're selling, honey. It's, you want to be invested in that and you want to feel like you're part of that story.

35:52And I think that is exactly like I could say, oh, that's a Kelly Hopper over there. You know, I would instantly be able to spot your style. And I think that is, in what you do, that is everything, isn't it? Yeah, no, listen, that's great. Thank you. I want to talk about the pressures of running a business, you know, and yours is so detailed, right? there are so many different strands of your business but when when the business is a self-titled business I want to talk about that because I'm so I spoke to Jo Malone a lot about this and I find it's something that really interests me I think yours is really interesting because it covers I mean there's the kind of the the media side and they're like books and the the product side of the business also the I guess the service-based side of the business it there is so many it's quite nuanced there are so many different strands of what you do is there a I mean this is probably about five questions in one but I'm just so intrigued because there's that pressure right when somebody wants Kelly Hoppen they want Kelly Hoppen and I'm always interested in this because I think as you grow there's only one Kelly quite literally to split your time and your energy into everybody be so personable is there ever a time where you think why didn't I call it something else yeah yeah so I can answer that 100 % so

37:37if I started again would I change the name maybe I think when you have your name above the door it puts a lot more pressure in so many different levels I've just changed the name of my company what yeah I mean it's the first time anybody's sort of heard this because it's I haven't done it kind of legally yeah my company name from day one was kelly hoppin interiors and i was on a trip not a holiday but a work trip in brussels and i had an aha moment and i said to a couple of the team that were with me because we were having a creative time i went oh my god the minute we get back to the studio i'm redecorating the boardroom and i'm calling it kelly hoppin creatives but i'm laughing because I just feel like when you speak I'm listening to myself this is so something that I when some when we sometimes we message you know I'm like hi it's 4am I knew you'd be awake that is so funny and the team said why and I said because I've had it so long and it's not just me anymore yeah it's a creative hub yes it gives me shivers actually and it was everyone in the company was so happy because I'm like it's not just me it's all of you and I can't list everyone's names so now when I'm in the boardroom and I've got the thing behind people say oh Kelly Hobbit Creative so we'll change all the you know stuff legally yeah but uh and as you grow a business like I have the interiors business obviously people want some of me but I've worked a way now where I put the concepts together, but I have an army of people who do all of the other stuff and I don't have to be at every meeting.

39:28So I'm with the people I need to be with, the clients I need to be with. There was a client in yesterday, one of my lead designers, they said, oh, they're such a big fan. They can't wait to meet you at the next meeting. I only have people in my company who are as brilliant as I want them to be. They are incredible. And I remember Lucy, who runs my company, said to me one day, and it really surprised me, she went, it's not the client I have to please, Kelly. It's you, me. And I said, what do you mean? They said, because if you're not happier with it, the client won't be. So I'm almost like her client on every single job.

40:09And as I was running out the door, she was giving me something because I'm with a client for dinner on Saturday night and I have to show them something because we're building an extension on their home. and she was like can I just go through it with you so you know what to say and I was like I know what to say she's like no I want you to she said and everyone that works for me is as particular as I am and you and and that is the thing right you can you have created and built it goes back to the year at 16 I know that you're you're putting those teams together and that's what you do well and I suppose it's taking everyone under your wing and as we say it takes a village right and building that village is really key and it's really interesting recently we've been working with this amazing life coach and he was like what is the culture of your business and I'm like what do you mean the culture and he really made me think about it and when you start to write down what the culture is and you start to change things some people start to leave because they can't live in that you know so we have now created a company that I would just say is perfect like the people in it the way we are we just had an away day in the summer at beginning of the summer it was the best away day we've ever had like you know when you just feel it's just perfect you know yeah so a very long-winded way of answering it's harder when it's your name but I feel like I've changed it slightly now so it's become like a creative team really and also No, I think it's so interesting because, and I think, you know, when we look at the likes of Jo Malone, you know, hers is quite intricate because she's sold her name.

41:53But actually, for me, when I, I find there's a real appeal in that. Like if it's Kelly Hoppin creatives or even before you changed it, you know, interior design, however that looks, for me that gives you a stamp of approval you know so I kind of yeah but if you sell your business if I was to sell my business and I walked down and saw Kelly Hoppin cushions and they were choppable you know and I'd be like fuming right like Jo Malone I I designed Jo's home when she was still making the product in her little kitchen I was on the floor with her and Gary when she had the first offer of her business I mean I was like there you know for her to then sell the business and not have her name but like she's reinvented herself with Jo Loves because she is the only scent let's face it right um but if you were to sell your name I've often thought about it what would I feel like if somebody else had a Kelly Hoppen product it wasn't mine and yeah and how would you feel when you went past a window and it wasn't right you couldn't control that or that would yeah Yeah, yeah.

43:04And I think, and I actually had that conversation with Jo and she said that actually, I think it does take a while to sort of get used to, but you have to sort of, it's been such a kind of instrumental part in her story and she's gone to have, you know, continuous success with Jo Loves, but actually there's something quite nice about knowing that the best-selling fragrances are still the one that you developed and that will always be her. And it always will. You know, she's got an extraordinary business. do you when it comes to running a team like how how many people are there in your team oh uh 48 50 in london wow too many that's a lot because i often find this and this is something that i kind of i ask these questions because i want to know because they're always things that i'm also dealing with when when you are and we discuss this you know the creative side of the brain is definitely the side of mine that's like lit up and always on fire when you almost I suppose when you've got a passion for something and you're good at it and then you stumble across the idea of okay now this is a business and now your business is huge and it has been for years running and managing people I suppose was never at the forefront of our mind when we're excited about the creative so what sort of leader are you what do you think your team would say what sort of leader are you and how is it something that you enjoy or is it something that you've learned to be good at so I think I remember Anya Highmarsh who I've known for years once said to me it's really lonely being a boss and I remember that resonating and I was like god it is because you everything's in your head and to be a good leader of a business you have to turn up every day and say hello to every single person in your office and be bright because if I walk into my studio and I'm like oh hi yeah okay like that the whole tone of the studio will come down I'm not saying I'm the most important person in that room but it will yeah but if I walk in and I'm like yay come on this is Monday we've got this and how amazing is that and everything you suddenly see the energy rising right but what I've learned is that people in your business if you layer it and people have different jobs in the business and responsibilities it balances it out so that as I was saying earlier if you know what you're good at I am a very good leader I'm a good like what do you call it rah-rah I'm I should actually have my own pom-poms because I can get everyone up dancing I'm good at that but I'm always you know peak too early I want to go home early as long as it's not past 9 p.m exactly um but I just what I've learned recently working with this incredible guy who I've only seen like four or five times he taught me how to stop running my business but to lead my business okay that's a goodie that one yeah yeah it's a really good one think about it after this because it's there's a point where you come to your business and you can't keep running it it's too big you're the creative you know what you're really good at but what's important at that stage is to lead and it's and I sat next to somebody at a party a few months ago who owns a very well-known production company one of the best and he said the same thing had happened to him and then we sat for like three hours over lunch on a mountain talking about it I came away feeling like whoa yeah I just thought god you know it's good that we're talking about it now because I think it's a really important thing for people in business to learn that there are different roles as you go through business you know at the beginning you're doing everything from packing to writing to running to this to that you know you are everybody um but if you get to a point later in your business or any point in your business you'll know when it's a gear shift yes and it's important different sort of skills and different a different one of your strengths at different points doesn't it yeah and different phases of that and what you enjoy and the most important thing in business is to always enjoy even the most tedious of jobs enjoy it with the people you love being around because you will grow even more you only have to look at kids your own children my grandson if they're around kids they love they play they're happy yes you know it's like surround yourself with the right people and you'll succeed yeah and that energy is it's crucial and I think you can always spot it too if there's one person in the team you know whether you know not necessarily somebody leading but in the team that walks in and has a kind of their energies off it can literally just suck the life out of a room and out of the rest of the team you've also got to be aware of that i'm very conscious of asking people in my company like we all sit down for lunch we have a table as long as this you know where everyone sits and people are like start working saying god you know we can't believe you sit and eat with everyone what are you talking about like I gotta eat where do you want me to eat this I like my table as long as I have my chair um but I think that you know if somebody was to ask me is there something you would have liked to have known from day one starting business what I wish someone had taught me was that the vulnerability and the authenticity about being a woman in business was okay.

48:59Yes. And it's taken me many years to realize that. And I think that if people younger in business who start off understand that, I used to kind of understand it and talk about it saying, you know, if I wanted balls in business, I'd have them, but I don't. You know, I always wanted to be a woman in business. But if I'd known that it was okay to be vulnerable and all of those and be feminine and realize that that was the power then that was the one thing I wish someone had taught me you're so right you're so right we we actually discussed that a lot on this podcast that actually it's stepping into that and not thinking we have to like I think we're almost taught aren't we at a young age that if we're walking into those rooms we've got to be a bit we've got to have that kind of ball busting mentality we've all done it charge in there and kind of prove our worth but actually the opposite is being feminine in there and i actually emma greed discussed that on the first ever episode of this podcast where she said actually don't let that intimidate you and don't sort of over sort of overcomplicate it because actually if somebody like you isn't in that room that means they need you so just show up as you Well, I always say that it's like, you know, if you're in a position where you've got a business and people want you, that's it.

50:28They want you. You don't have to prove anything else. The proof is then in what you do and how you present it and your passion about it and how you deliver it and how you stick to your deadlines and your costings and your budgets and all of those things. And that to me is the authenticity. it's those things where you tick all of those boxes and that's when people will sit around a table and go I've got to tell you we had an amazing experience with Kelly Hoppen you know she did a great job whatever and it's the word of mouth I've always said is the most powerful and it can work to to the opposite right yes um and so that's really key and so who you get into bed with in business is so critical and it's not about the now it's about when things go wrong how that unfolds yes it's like marriage isn't it yeah we discussed that a lot but actually when you're you know whether that's taking on investors or sort of deciding how that moves forward and who you're in partnership with is oh i mean thinking of the ahead yeah not necessarily the here and now yeah yeah i want to do a rocket round now um it's essentially quick fire questions um but we can you know i don't need one word answers i say quick fire it's never quick on this show um the first question is what are the non-negotiables do you believe for launching a business i think the non-negotiables when starting a business is when you come up with an idea and you're so sure that that idea is what you want to get to do for me that's the non-negotiable It's like how you then chop that up into creating that business.

52:15Because so often I hear people say, I've got this brilliant idea. I've just started this business. And then people pull it to pieces. Yeah. For me, that's the time that you kill something. That's so true. Right? Because that first moment of passion, for me, that instinct, especially in women, is real. Yes. And it's like that aha moment. Right. And of course, down the way, there are going to be things that you need to change a minute, but never take away that that thing at the beginning and have to negotiate that that diamond that you've created because you have time in a business to work out how to maneuver it, to get it to that so that it's polished and flawless.

52:59So that's what I would say. That certainty is the non-negotiable in itself. Yes. when did you first realize that you truly launched birth yes I love that she always knew she always knew no I think for me um two things one Terence Conran asking me to write my first book for me that was yeah like wow like He was my kind of icon, amazing guy. He actually wrote the forward to my last book, which he's never written a forward to a book. So that was amazing. And I suppose the second one was when the FT How to Spend It, Lucia van der Post, who I still am in contact with, wrote a double page on me. And in those days, the FT How to Spend It, her column was like, if she wrote about you, you've arrived.

54:02And I remember, and I can still see myself in my studio, you would have loved my studio in those days, looking at it and thinking, wow, actually now I can just do it and not have to prove. And I think when there's a moment where you don't have to prove to anyone that you're good at it, because that's so exhausting, right? And you can just do it. That to me was that moment. Yes, you're right. Just being in the doing and getting on with it, not worrying. yeah about impressing yeah or it was just I was doing it for me and everything else kind of followed I love that I love that what's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed oh that's easy first thing I do is wiggle my toes

54:52second thing I do is take a mouth guard out because I grind my teeth at night then I go and make we have so much in common oh really my teeth oh it's the worst um then I do a sort of small not it's not meditation because I I can't meditate but I sort of do this thing I'm grateful think about all the great things whatever and I kind of fast forward that so I can go downstairs and make my hot water and lemon and my espresso my black coffee make one for John because he likes it cold because I'm up very early so by the time he drinks it it's perfect and then I just sit in bed and kind of just check my phone to see if there's anything from the kids and then John kind of wakes up and then we kind of chat and kind of glide into the morning and then go to the I then go and do a workout and what was it the last thing I do at night yes um sort of reverse take makeup up off get into bed John and I talk again like we're really we are like this John and I so we're we're good together a lot of the time we'll watch something in bed you know and we fall asleep to that or yeah but I always try and uh think good things as I'm going to sleep so that I'm you know and I sleep really well yeah that's nice so yeah do you what time because you said that you wake up a lot earlier and John what what time are we talking because 5 40 yes yeah I was up I was awake at four this morning but I managed to go back to sleep but I like to be up my grandpa always used to say you'll get more done before anyone else is awake and I now send emails early in the morning and I go this isn't until nine don't answer because it's well we've had this conversation like brain dumping isn't it and this new thing I have which is just so annoying for me but I've stopped myself from sending emails on weekends so I write an email to myself going remember this so on a Monday morning I have to then write all the emails to everyone so you yes I have more emails from myself on a weekend than anyone else that's so funny just to check yourself there what I do I've started this thing that there's a few of us that are in it and we've oh yeah you told me did i tell you this the to-do list so basically we have pinned a to-do list on whatsapp and no one's allowed to talk in it it's not like a copy it's not a three next things get lost don't they in chat i remember that i need to copy that it's really good and i just that's like at 3am or whatever it is when i've woken up and i'm like email so and so to check in on x whatever that is but there's no expectations that somebody has to yeah and it's muted everyone's got it on mute but you can always see it at the top most of my team have got me on mute anyway We got mewed way before we knew we were.

57:42I think that's the only way for people like us. Is there one piece of advice that you wish that you hadn't listened to? Wow. No one's ever asked me that. Can't think, but I'm sure there's probably loads of things. I don't think you'd listen. Yeah, you're probably right. I probably didn't listen. You're probably right. you know I'm I'm so much better now when somebody tries to give me advice I now know that I listen to it and I don't butt in and I digest it right to try and see why they've said that whereas before I would have probably gone you don't know what you're talking about right I said like you're you're headstrong yeah you're kind of sure of what it is you want or what you you know you think you want to be I mean probably the only thing I would say is having my own online store was you know something I just so wanted to do I was like yeah easy peasy you know but actually I didn't realize a how much time it would take be the manufacturing the just you know getting it all there but also how many millions you have to throw into something like that and when you're running already a massive empire of another business that is your mothership I probably should have listened to whoever said to me don't do it in fact I remember Jo Malone saying to me years ago when I first opened a shop on Fulham Road and I went oh my god I'm like the shop girl I just love it I'm in there every day and everyone's coming in to see me and I'm the best salesperson in the world and she went give it three months you know you'll be bored with it you'll be like all the hassles and she's right you know retail and all of that so I'm much better at designing and having somebody else do that so probably that was something I should have listened to okay what's a skill you'd love to learn I just kind of did right um not giving too much away I just did cooking with the stars yes uh so from somebody who literally knew how to poach a salmon and boil an egg design a fabulous kitchen I could design a fabulous kitchen and my the way of display I didn't have a problem with so watch this space like Carrie Bradshaw's when she puts like jumpers in the oven that was me prior yeah definitely Oh, okay.

1:00:14So it kind of taught me two things. One, that you can learn. Yes. And two, being so dyslexic, if somebody writes a recipe in a way that I can format, I can read a recipe and I can cook. Okay, I love that. So more cooking, more cooking at home. Yeah. Jumpers out the stove. Listen, John is like, this is brilliant. He's delighted. Yeah, he's delighted. He's getting more than a cold coffee now. What would be the dream collab for your brand, do you think? You know, now we're in an age where it's like brand on brands are collabing or whether that's like a celebrity ambassador, however that looks, what would be the kind of dream collaboration?

1:00:59I mean, you've really got it with Marks and Spencer, haven't you? Yeah, I mean, for me personally, so I suppose there are two. One is a hair. Yeah. You know, I've done stuff for L 'Oreal, not like you, but I did a great campaign for them, which I love doing because I love the whole message. You look great for your age crossed out. But, I mean, I must get 400 messages a day. What do you use on your hair? So I've always wanted to do a hair product. Oh my gosh, you so should. Yeah. For the business, I've sort of done so many. Well, as I say, you know, like Spencer is like is such a brilliant. I mean, that is the dream.

1:01:50You know, it's like the don for me. But I suppose at a high at a different level at the higher end, you know, the likes of Baccarat or doing something like that. Yes. But, you know, those things come. They always come in eventually. But, yeah, I mean, I've lucked out with Marks and Spencer. I mean, I'm doing so much more with them and we've designed right up till the end of next Christmas. It's such a perfect fit. Yeah, they're just so brilliant to work with. You do stuff with them. Yeah, well, in the food space and I have to be honest, it's like my favourite gig. Yeah, yeah. I eat. I eat the goodies.

1:02:28They'll be like a viral strawberries and cream sandwich. Oh, I haven't tried that yet. And I eat it. It's amazing. It's great. I love it. Every time when my little contract renewal comes back in, I'm like scared they're going to actually remember that they're paying me to do it. You know, I'm like, they haven't caught on yet, have they, because I absolutely love it. And last one, if you could choose one female figure as a mentor, past or present, who would that be? Well, there's a few, but there's somebody you and I both know. So I think Emma. Great. Great. So I have a history with Emma. Right, tell me.

1:03:08So Emma and Jens used to look after me. No way. When they had their agency. When they had the PR agency. Yeah. And so it's really interesting for me to watch Emma because Emma was behind the camera. She never wanted anything. But from day one, loved her. her energy, her power, her visibility of seeing through something. She had these X-ray vision eyes to be able to see into the future. But her tone and her voice and knowing her and Jens and the kids and everything that she's created. And there are lots of people like that. But I just think she's beyond. She's amazing. she's amazing and she's so she kind of we went for breakfast last week the week before last she was over and we honestly I was late for about three meetings because we you know when you just yeah you can't stop you look at the phone and you're like oh shit so she was running off and I was but she just talks in sound bites and everything she says like if there's somebody that I'm like who could I have on speed dial to run something by I agree she's such a good sounding board but she's always It doesn't waste time.

1:04:22No. Yeah. And I love that. Yeah. I mean, my attention span isn't great. Neither is mine. So, yeah, you want information. But that's one thing I've learned about women. If you've got a good body of women around you, I see that all the time where I'll just send a message to someone going, could you give me this number or does anybody know this? And you know what? Women are so good. Boom. You could text me any time of the day or night for a number for somebody, whether it was tying your shoelaces. I'd know the best person for that. you just we share yes and I think that is a great thing about women is that we're very good at sharing information and there's never that thing of like well I don't want to give it to her because she's going to you know gate crash my gig or whatever and I think like Emma is that like on steroids it's so true and I think I've really found that since starting this podcast because, you know, the reason I started this podcast was to do that, to share, for you to be sat in that seat, to share your advice, you know, to a listener that is desperate to kind of press go on something and sees you as an inspiration.

1:05:31And I'm so kind of, people think that women gatekeep because they're worried that if they give a contact to you, it's going to stop, it's going to take food off their table. but it's so kind of limiting and I just I just don't believe that's true and I'm such a like you should meet her connect with this person I love networking and kind of like but we I don't know if we touched on this before I've always said if other people have done what you've done it's brilliant because you can follow their footsteps and learn from them and actually grow even more absolutely you know and it doesn't hold you back and I think as women sometimes that can happen so when I meet another woman that's like-minded and I'll be honest everybody that's sat in that seat really has been I've made such good friends just by hosting this podcast because it is quite isolating it's quite a lonely space when you're a founder yeah of course you're so invested in what you're doing and it consumes you because it's your everything that it is quite lonely and your friends don't necessarily understand it so to talk to like-minded people has been it's really liberating yeah it's really really liberating and actually you realize that we're all the same and I'm really I'm kind of with there's been such a nice community that's like grown from this organically which I love I love it so much each episode I ask our guests to leave a tip and it's almost like one piece of real tangible advice I suppose that if somebody's listening to this and they've watched and follow your journey and kind of want to be in the same space but haven't got the first clue how to start that what would one piece of advice be that you would give to a lady looking to launch well it's a kind of two answer I would say if I left a tip I would say never underestimate the authenticity of power because people shy away from power in business because people have been led to believe that that's too strong or wrong right if you want to start a business, it doesn't matter if it's my type of business, yours or whatever, your power in that is what charges it.

1:08:00So don't be meek and mild. You know, as I was saying, if you've got that idea, hold on to that. Don't let anyone touch that. They can touch other things around it to make you grow. But listen and learn and hold on to your power. never ever let go of that because that's yours it's no one else's and it's your power that's going to drive your business so you have to protect your power your idea the authenticity behind it the the ideas that grow from all of that is for anyone to tamper with to help you and guide you but if you could if you hold on to all of that and if you look at all the big successful people doesn't matter if they're big or small in business they've all had that I've looked I've checked I've read I've seen because I always thought what was that one thing that people have because if you're not strong from the core in your body everything else falls apart so think of it as this you know really that that's important yeah that is that is such good advice because you're right.

1:09:07I think particularly when you're in that sort of startup space and if it is, for instance, the creativity that's your strong set, that's your skill, you can take so much outside noise on board and it's really distracting, it's really noisy and actually you lose your confidence. And that is your power. You have to switch off the noise around certain parts of a business when you're starting. Not all of it, because then you're just being big headed. You've got to know when you need the help, you know, but you're right. You've got to switch the noise off. If you look at sports people, when they're about to hit a ball or whatever, they've switched the noise off.

1:09:54They're in that moment. That power that I call it, it's not just going and banging people. It's just that it's your inner power to be able to start a business because it takes a lot to do that. Yeah. And that's the bit you have to protect. And it's yours. And it's yours. Own it. And lastly, I ask everyone this because I'm, first of all, quite nosy and I like to know how everybody spends their lunch hour. We talk about ladies who launch, but when it comes to ladies who lunch, I mean, a lot of us don't get the luxury of a lunch hour. But first of all, do you? Do you make a conscious time for lunch?

1:10:35I do because and I make everyone in my company stop for lunch and not eat at their desk. So that's why we have this long table. And because I'm such a health kick, it's kind of everyone's a bit like that now. so people bring in their lunch or they cook it there so I tend to make my lunch at home in the morning so I bring in or I've made something or once a month we do a pizza Friday or you know whatever um but I do stop for lunch because I like to talk to the team as well because people sort of drop their guard and you can hear stories and you know at the moment it's Love Island oh you know that's a hot topic in here yeah so everyone's like I can't believe you watch it Kelly I went yes in the dark when John's asleep you know um but I think it's really important I don't sit I'm not someone who goes out for lunches yeah when I do and girlfriends say let's go out for lunch I just go why don't I do this more often because it's so nice so occasionally it's good to do but I like to eat yes you know and what are you what if you're prepping in the morning and you've brought something into work what are you bringing so today I did arugula one of my favorite tomatoes I did it in a hurry but I just took three turkey burgers that I bake and just put them in so I kind of ate on the run today but yesterday I did poached salmon on a salad with eggs and capers and I mean just quick easy you know cooking with the stars there you go I love it I just poached the salmon no big deal um thank you so much oh thank you I've absolutely loved that it's been you know that I follow everything from afar and I'm you know I'm always cheering you on in the background but I love it it's so so inspiring to hear your story and your tenacity and your like continued success it's kind of no it's quite exhausting but do you know what you know that you've hit the jackpot in life when you're exhausted by something that you love that's what they say i know i know well ditto i follow everything you do i think and i love this i think it's brilliant thank you loved it thanks guys that was so nice

1:12:57don't forget to follow us on apple and spotify or wherever you get your podcast to make sure that you don't miss out because next time we're going to be joined by another incredible lady who launched if like me you're a watcher then follow us on youtube and please don't forget to like and subscribe