Ep 42: How Lemon Fuller Disrupted Lingerie: Building Lemonade Dolls with Grit & Community

0:12Today I'm joined by Lemma Fuller, founder of Lemonade Dolls, the UK's fastest growing lingerie brand breaking every rule in the book. With an inclusive mission, she is making global impact and redefining what empowerment looks like in fashion. So let's find out why she's a lady who launched. Well, thanks so much for coming. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited that you're here. I've got so much that I want to talk to you about. I always start these episodes in the same way. I love talking about early life. And you know, sometimes it's for the good and sometimes it's the thing that we want to forget but whichever way it looks I really feel like it shapes the kind of entrepreneur that we become or the founder that we then become and when I first started this podcast I didn't know this is what we were going to do but it's just become the thing and you can always link it back to early life and it really really interests me so life before being an entrepreneur how did that look for lemon a very different I feel like I've lived a few lives um multiple lives uh but maybe I'll take it back like really far but won't won't touch on it for too long but like my um my parents have me as a second marriage so um I grew up in a household with uh lots of teenagers right um some half brothers and sisters and um there was a lot of love like it was quite um a humble beginning like very normal but there was a lot of attention around me because it I was kind of um they tried for me for a long time yeah didn't succeed didn't succeed and then finally had me when my mum was was um 45 and uh yeah and so I kind of grew up into this like wild wild household of energy they was rotors on the like the walls to kind of who's gonna like pick me up out of the cot who's going to take me to the nursery and who's going to you know whatever and I actually think um that that has contributed to the kind of mass like confidence of I'm going to do something great because I was always told that I could do anything yeah even though it was a very normal upbringing um and yeah and I just I think that has really shaped kind of that because I've always had that kind of slightly strange amount of I'm going to do something epic.

2:38I want to do something amazing. And almost from like when I was born. I love that. Yeah. Like, yeah, almost like straight away popped out in jazz hands and like the splits. And would you say like fearless? Yeah. I'm much, I'm less fearless now. As I've got older. Life knocks out. As I've got older. In my childhood, my teens, in my 20s, I was probably in my 20s that I was the most fearless. Like nothing was going to stop me. I would, you know, I mean, we can get onto it. But, you know, it's getting like one way flights to L.A. with no money. Like, you know, things just mental, which I would never do now.

3:14But because I think you just kind of get some sanity as you get older. I don't know. Isn't it sad, though, that life does knock that out of you a bit? because to have that I mean yeah running a business you kind of you need to pull back on that a little bit but well a lot um and responsibilities come into play but that kind of just like I'm gonna just grab it with both hands this life I've been given like yeah it's I love and I find that so attractive in a person it's such a great quality but life get just makes us a bit more cautious but I also think if I'd carried on I might have died I might not still be here so maybe there's like a probably a better balance now but yeah I just I don't know I popped out jazz hand splits straight away kind of four was in every kind of all I wanted to do was dance and sing and perform and be in front of people and you know and by the time I was nine I was working at my local dance school to get free classes and you know just I don't know I've just yeah I've always known what I wanted to do and just tried to make it happen.

4:20At the age of sort of nine or ten, what was it that you thought you really, really wanted? I wanted to dance and sing for the rest of my life and never do anything else. Wow. And I did do that for a long time. But, yeah, that was it. But that wasn't... I found that out at three. You know, I was the kid with the hairbrush. I mean, I don't know... Do you know when you were younger as well? Yeah, yeah. I was quite shy. though i kind of my mum actually sent me to i had like a stammer for quite a long period of time and weirdly i got it off the back of the chicken pox so sometimes it can happen um and the same thing happened to my son and my mum i went to speech therapy and did all of that and my mum sent me to dancing for confidence because i'd be like hiding behind my mum's leg and not kind of which is so ironic that what i do for a living that she was like god she's too shy this girl careful what you wish for a mum and that's the that was the original reason why I kind of got into it but I just loved it I felt like I sort of found my people I felt that I kind of I fit in there a lot more than I did at school I kind of just loved the whole world and the excitement and the don't you think and also at such a young age you're learning these skills of working with people of like spatial awareness but not just obviously like you know you're going to hit someone yes you're like you know but just like understanding what the people around you are doing like you almost have to have like empathy with it like everyone on stage checking in like going away with the you know such a young age like there's so many levels of like skills that i now use and i think that work ethic like you can't just walk in and be the best in the room at something and i definitely wasn't but i was not let me tell you i was going to be the first there and the last to leave and i would be that kind of that graft yeah you know so i think there's a lot of kind of things that does in still for for the better i always say that i've never actually employed anyone that's been in the military but i love when i interview people for roles i'm like were you a performer or were in the military because i love it because people understand how like they understand working hard and do you like underwear yeah actually that's not even really a question i'm kind of like um you know do you care about what we're doing and our mission if that's a yes but yeah it's like i just think i think it's i think it really shaped me and formed me to be able to push and that resilience as well like we you know I was like six going up for like auditions you know even my local dance school but I would cry when I didn't get them I was devastated yeah you know and so that's really set me set me up really to kind of for the rest of my life to be like oh well I'm used to getting those and I'm just gonna carry on anyway yeah you kind of dust it off yeah yeah and it was such young you know and I wanted to be successful whether it be in my local dance school or whatever or when I went to um forming art school like the whole times and there was loads of no's there was 20 ,000 no's before there was a yes you know and that yes was so sweet you know I think that's helped with the resilience of running a business and also understanding that the no's aren't necessarily a reflection of you you could go into a casting couldn't you and you'd get there and you'd be you've been sent for the casting thinking you're kind of on a level playing field of everybody but actually what they asked for was someone blonde hair and blue eyes so I was never going to get it but those no's become so kind of I mean almost habitual but you're, you kind of it builds that resilience and that tenacity to keep going for me I think that's definitely been so so important, would I want it for my little one I don't know but I think for me and that sounds like a massive hypocrite doesn't it but for me I've found it's been amazing I think if they, they'll decide for themselves Like, my parents did not want, like, they had no interest in me doing what I'm doing now.

8:12Like, they, you know, they would teach her and publish her very normal. And, you know, they wanted me to just have a normal life, you know. But they had no choice in the matter. Like, zero choice. And they realised that prettier than I was going. Yeah, pretty early on. Yeah, I remember going to my mum, going at 13 and saying, I just can't go to school anymore. She was like, what? She's a teacher. I was like, I just can't go. I just cannot go anymore. I need to go to a performing arts school and I want to dance every day. And that didn't happen. It shouldn't let me at 13. But the moment, because I'm quite late in the year on the birthday, so I was auditioning at 15 years old without, like, whether they liked it or not.

8:53And kind of, yeah. And then luckily got a scholarship to go to school. And then I packed my bags and headed to the Big Smoke. And that was when my life really started. Yeah. That was when that happened. And how was that moment for you? Was that kind of like the realisation, yeah, this kind of like the big smoke, as you say, and being in this, this is for me? Yeah, it was everything. It was literally like everything. And I had to get a full scholarship and they only gave like one full scholarship to, because I needed like accommodation to be paid for and things like that. So yeah, and there was lots of half ones and I was like, that's not going to be enough.

9:34I need the one. like I need one um what can I do literally I was there like do you want me to do another tap dance for you what song do you want to sing like you know like yeah yeah um I remember doing Greek dancing I don't even like do you remember that did you ever do that I don't know I was like do you want a little Greek dance I've got this um yeah anything that you want I'm gonna give to you right now um and yeah luckily I think they thought I was absolutely insane I think they also realized I wouldn't leave the room if they didn't give me this fellowship. Listen, give it to her. She's not going to go anywhere unless we do.

10:08But that was the start. And then I moved out of home just on my 16th birthday. And I became an adult very quick, as you can imagine, because I had to, like, you know, became a shock girl, you know, to pay illegally because I was under 18, you know, to pay for everything else and to like, you know, but I loved it. I loved it. Absolutely loved it. And it just was one of the best kind of few years of my life. And then that kind of put, yeah, allowed me to be, you know, give me a little career in the entertainment industry, which was amazing. When you were in the entertainment industry, when you're kind of at school, then leave school, what are you actually doing in that space?

10:50So I started, so in terms of working, I worked as a dancer and a choreographer in the first bit, in my first life. She's got nine. yeah yeah yeah i feel like i'm on i'm on three right now but yeah probably nine by the end um and uh yeah i i had a really really great time and um was able to work with lots of great people i don't think i ever did actually dance for the saturdays but i did dance for lots of other bands and lots of other how crazy i know uh definitely would have been like with you on the same show like comic relief or um let's dance or like you know like all the kind of um but yeah if i wasn't dancing on them I was helping choreograph them or choreographing them and I did that quite young and I don't I do believe in luck but I hate the word luck because I think I've worked so hard for everything I've done I don't you know someone says you're really lucky I'm like yeah sorry you can say it can I yeah of course you can you know um that isn't that isn't and you create your own luck it isn't like people always kind of and we talk about this like oh my gosh have you seen that she's now doing this and this kind of overnight success mentality and it's like it took 10 20 years to become this overnight success yeah I've been doing it you've just now seen it yeah you know I think you haven't seen the struggle yeah exactly exactly that so you were kind of sort of you're choreographing yeah you were dancing yeah you were doing kind of yeah lots of tv and still and I've always I was always doing music at the time but I wasn't pushing it because one, you know, you'll know, you know, there's probably 40 dancers to one singer if you think about it across the whole industry and I needed to work and I needed cash and I needed to stay in London because that was where it was, you know, and where it was happening.

12:39So, yeah, so I took everything, every job. My first ever job was dancing as a lobster at Glastonbury. You know, I mean, I was, you know, I've done it all. You know, like it's been glamorous and it's been really unglamorous, Michelle. like you know um listen some people take that lobster suit just to get into glaston yeah i mean well to be fair that was yeah yeah i was just turned 18 and i was like this is amazing got my best friend involved and she was like are you joking i've got i've got to wear i've got to be guess what girl we're going to last one catch yeah we're lobsters we're lobsters um but anyway yeah it just kind of and it spiraled but actually at the time um it was great but i just i did want to be I wanted to be creating yeah and I wanted to be doing it and I wanted to be singing and I wanted and I was writing a lot of music so I decided to pack that all in and start my second life and um I started going on tour and with my own music that I wrote and it was really good and we we did really well and like it was it was really fun and you know we toured with Little Mix and we did and it was all completely independent like and you know it wasn't a buy-on there was none of that which you know of course is more normal um in the industry it was just kind of just organic and it was really exciting but the music industry in the UK it just didn't work out like I was told like calm down you know calm down lemon and I was a bit mental you know I was like full splits dancing upside down like you know singing that note like I was it was a bit much but totally perfect amount of much like you know for me but um I think just in the anyway it just didn't work so yeah got my um and I couldn't couldn't get signed and get a deal over here and then um yeah got got flight to LA and had three nights in a hotel and that was it and um really didn't have any cash I'm talking and when I say didn't have any cash I'm talking you know 500 quid in the bank you know um and uh yeah uh and it worked out so yeah got there and on the last night there was a music event and I was booked to see one of the producers I was working with in the UK had a connection with a publisher in the US and on the third night it was that event and I met I met him and his wife and kind of told the wife who's such a babe and she was amazing told her what I was doing she was like are you mad I was like yes like I am but like I'm gonna make this work and she was like do you want to just come over tomorrow and stay in our spare room for a bit whilst you sort yourself out um and actually yeah they ended up signing me and I ended up staying there for like the best of three years and had an amazing time amazing yes that was like my yeah kind of like my second second life um and worked really hard but and that but that also all of this that I'm talking about and that hustle and that drive whatever um and the highs and the lows the risk yeah like what am I going to do um kind of led led to lemonade dolls so it's just it's so interesting and it's so interesting how because you always find this you always like every single woman that I've sat down with there's been that before story yeah that kind of this maybe wasn't I don't know I there's you could say that it was always on the cards because it was all leading to this but not necessarily at the time this is actually a million worlds away from what you thought you were going to do so let's talk about what I mean I'm by talking to you already I can tell there are lots of different things that motivate you but what motivated you to disrupt the lingerie industry in the way that you have so Lemonade doll started as an Instagram account and had nothing to do with lingerie so um I after a good stint in LA um I story for probably another time but it was it was a lot it was a lot the journey I had there was amazing I did some incredible things worked with some incredible people but it was a lot it was super lonely um I was there pretty much well completely by myself I I obviously had my partner and his wife, but essentially, like, I was, you know, they'd signed me.

16:51Like, I was still kind of, you know. It's a bit of an interesting dynamic. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. I didn't have friends. I didn't have family. I didn't have a group of people that had my back. But at that point, you know, I'm fine. I'm independent. I can do this. I'm just going to get what I want. You know, I'm good enough. I'm going to make this happen. But actually, I really, really needed someone to have my back and to look after me a bit. and it did end in a pretty shitty situation with one of the heads of a label and it was a really, really hard time for me and so I got a plane home the next day and I was like, I just need to be around my family and I need to go back to Chichester, the place that I wanted to escape put my feet in the ground and just be like, okay, I'm okay.

17:34And feel safe. And feel safe. Yeah, yeah. And feel safe. And at Heathrow Airport, I set up an Instagram account called Lemonade Dolls. now everyone says where does the name come from no no no I I don't even there is Lemonade Dolls does not the name obviously my name is Lemon but that does not have a story like I just I literally I don't I was I don't know I just I just set it up um and it when we landed I remember the exact moment um at Heathrow arrivals and uh yeah I set up the account and I just started posting kind of positive but not like whimsical positive kind of like you know it wasn't like um kind of fluffy positive it was quite raw yeah quite and i and my intention was because i was angry and i was wanted women to feel better about themselves i wanted women to believe in themselves secretly like not secretly uh in hindsight it was me that needed yeah you needed i needed to feel better about myself you almost needed that network like you say the support that you were craving the reason you flew home yeah you were trying to build like i'm doing this for other people actually i was probably doing yeah i was probably doing it for me but i didn't realize that at the time and because it was quite authentic and quite like I don't know raw I guess because I was kind of not in the best place it actually really really grew and the engagement was amazing and I think the background of people that were following me before were quite eclectic background you know from 16 I moved to London and then I was traveling you know all over so my kind of network my your reach I suppose yeah it was just really eclectic is the only really kind of word that I can describe and um yeah and it just started getting really exciting and then I was like oh my god I'm like this is this and I never thought I would love something as much as music and I never would have thought I'd ever left music like ever and uh I thought this is actually doing it for me and this is doing it for me in a way that's probably a lot healthier and and it's actually giving back and it's not just about how I look or if someone thinks I'm good enough or someone thinks I'm pretty enough or that you know to put enough money behind us whatever like you know So it was, oh my God, this is doing something really important and I may be in a position in my life where I can actually do that.

19:39It's quite an instant thing, isn't it, to see when something's connecting. And I can appreciate that being in the music industry. There's kind of like, do people like this? How is it going to land? You do a lot sort of, I suppose, quite insular when you're recording and you sit on stuff for a while and then it's like, oh God, it's basically giving birth and bringing this project then out into the world. it's quite there's no sort of gauge on it instantly no no and it's really exposing as well yes yeah and you put your heart and soul into something and you just pray that people are gonna like it yeah and you're like i've done everything for this and they're like it's not good enough let's use this yeah yeah yeah no but um but this instagram account i was i was in control maybe you know um maybe that was the first time i was in control yeah my probably my entire life yeah because really by the time I was 16 I was kind of you know someone was always in control of what was going to happen if I was going to get the part I was going to get the deal I was going to get the deal you know telling me what I had to do in order to progress or whatever you know and maybe that was the first time that I did I felt like I had my hands on the reins and that was needed yeah and I suppose sort of not really knowing not really having an expectation for what it was going to be but yeah no no expectation building and you you sort of re you're writing your own rules aren't you because this is something i'm in control of and yeah we're not sure what's going to come out of it but at the minute it's something that i'm enjoying and is helping others and so at what point do you you realize you know that this is resonating with people at what point does it then turn or does the idea happen go from a community into community into a product-based business.

21:27Yeah. Well, I had to turn it into something that could sustain my life and also build something. And I've always been very ambitious. You know, like when I pop up, I was like, I want to be a pop star. I want to be, or I want to choreograph like the biggest show in the world. You know, and then I was like, I want to build the biggest community ever that's so positive. And then I was like, you know, then I want to build the biggest brand, you know, in the world. I don't feel like, again, I don't feel like that now. But I did at the time. right this was all um I'm still super ambitious but maybe a little bit healthier level yeah um but it's probably because you found your thing yeah you've like yeah you know found the thing that a that you love and you're passionate about but yeah b it's bloody working yeah so when there's that push and pull of I really like this but it's not yeah yeah and I definitely no one's biting and it's not doing what I want it to do but this has been the time where it's sort of gelled at the same time yeah yeah exactly um and yeah so so realized I wanted to turn this into a business and I'm not going back to LA and I'm not going back to music yet and I'm just going to put everything into this and I thought okay well what what product can I can I launch and what what is unsaturated um and also you know what is a product that can make women from all over from all sizes from everything make them feel amazing and I was like what better way to actually strip it down and put them in their underwear and be like you're amazing every size like wherever you're from like you're you're incredible and you can do anything um and at the same time there was only really two uh brands on the market that were mass market there were lots of little brands but there was only M &S and Victoria's Secrets and Victoria's Secrets is everything I stood against and M &S was and is an amazing brand and absolutely you know think they're incredible but you're not sitting around a dinner table going you know um um I bought this really sexy set from M &S I love M &S by the way and we know we're probably going to work with them but you know at the time um they you know it wasn't seen as sexy to buy your underwear yeah and I wanted women to feel sexy yeah I wanted them to be comfortable and I wanted them to find a you know find find a brand that made them feel epic you know so so actually that point it was like a like it was like done there was no back and forth there was it was it was right we're doing it and actually when I spoke to them the community um you know I actually then realized that a lot of my community weren't served at all so you know I'm sitting there in a privileged position you know like being represented by everyone could buy from every single brand you know like and then a load of the community some of my best friends some of my you know they were like we can't shop from those places and why so tell me what's the why sizing sizing so it would stop at a certain size a lot of high street brands stop it crazy yeah well and they and it has got better in the last like few years which is fantastic you know like that is great we need to get that yes more of that more of that but um specifically in lingerie especially without underwire there are just no bralettes um for the fuller cup and whilst i was on this mission like and you know and i was like how can i make this the biggest and the best and you know and the most ethical that like i literally wrote it out and i was like right well if i'm for women then i'm taking aluminium out of the bloody bra then i'm like okay and then i'm like you know and then i'm like right okay so we need to make get it made but where can we manufacture it where it's you know as sustainable we're going to make every single fabric recycled you know or like and so i just kind of tried to like look at like and And then it just kind of happened.

25:02But by doing that and by speaking to the community, they led that. Like, I would never have thought, oh, I'm going to make, you know, full of cut bralettes and that's going to explode the business. Like, that was from them. That was not my idea. Like, my idea was just to create something that made them feel good. I didn't realise what would it, and of course it's, like, well-fitting underwear. And how that needed to look at the time. Yeah, yeah. And they drove it. They drove everything, you know. and that and that's we are we are a community driven brand and a community led brand and but especially at the beginning you know now now we're bigger and you know it we're still led by them and we you know we're lucky enough to have never had one single pair of briefs or bras to landfill like we do not you know which is amazing um but you know at the beginning they they literally were the driving force yeah well it's almost like you like had the perfect focus group too that you could if you're so hands-on and it is a community-based page or you know it's a community before it's a brand you're talking to the customer right and they're kind of dictating what it is that makes them feel sexy and you're kind of taking the lead but to do that and to be able to hold those reins and steer that ship that's you so where so you're from this creative jazz hands background how do you learn how to bring a product-based business to life like where did you what was your first I know what this one I want this to look like I know now what it needs to be who it's for yeah then what well um yeah so this is what so this is that we're entering third life now yeah okay so yeah we're keeping up uh and this was this was very interesting at the beginning i mean i again naively i can do this i've got this i can do this all by myself you know um because i've done everything else up to this point you know um and then i found this factory the last factory that does underwear in the uk but how because i'm always interested in like i always think when we do these episodes like so many people are you know looking to build a startup or literally at that phase now where did you even find a factory at google yeah so you literally just i'm talking grass i'm talking me in my bedroom like laundry manufacturers in the uk um and yeah found one and um it was an absolute disaster they came back like big enough for a doll um completely like terrible barbie bra yeah barbie bra terrible um and i thought i'm gonna need to i'm gonna need to kind of get some expertise here um and i did and i got some cool people involved and um by and again when i say that it took a long time to get some cool people involved my network whilst it was um a quite vast network at that point you know all my friends were singers and dancers you know so um it wasn't in the right industry um and I never really touched on kind of fashion really when I was in the entertainment industry apart from my own kind of my own fashion and for my own shows um so yeah it was completely it was completely different but I just had to kind of like do you know someone and I asked questions I would literally knock on doors I I remember just knocking on random doors around London, being like, hi, you're a PR company that has fashion brands?

28:25Could you help me? And they're like, we really can't. Like, sorry, we can do your PR. But like, you know, like I just remember just kind of like knocking on every single door possible and just one by one months, you know, a few months go by, a year goes by, you start to build something. And actually I started teaching at Cycle. and um to honestly you like you didn't need something else to do when you I love this I know so you also teach spin I teach spin yeah yeah I started teaching cycle because they were like do you want to get paid to exercise I was like absolutely then I fell in love with it um because it's kind of it is kind of performing you know you're on a podium and it's like it's fab um but at the time I didn't know I was going to love it it was the first ever boutique spin studio in Europe.

29:14So it was, yeah, and it was an amazing vehicle. It also really added to my connections because a lot of people that went there were very well-connected and had brilliant jobs and things like that. But one of the branding guys from Cycle had this amazing, one of the biggest branding companies in London, and I just went up to him and he knew me because I was like the mad Cycle instructor. And I just said, I've got this idea and I'm going to launch this. I've built this community and I'm going to watch this underwear brand and it's going to be absolutely amazing and you can't say no. And I said, but I need five grand.

29:49And he said, come up with something that's never been done before. I can't believe I'm actually saying this. I don't really do this. I don't really talk about this because it's actually a bit odd. But anyway, so I was like. No, it's not. Nothing's odd here. No, no, it is. You haven't got to this far. But so I said, can you put that in writing? If I come up with something that's never been done before, you're going to give me the five grand. And he was like, yeah. and I thought well what's not been done before everything's been done before and then I remembered those smelly pens like the flavoured pens yeah I was like what if I what if I make like the underwear smell of lemons like lemon lemonade dolls lemon and it was a joke it was obviously a joke but it's never been done before and I had it in writing so I got this scented lemon bra and I was like never been done before you've got to give me five grand and then I was able to make samples um oh my god that is brilliant yeah so i mean it's terrible but it's so weird it's so weird like such a weird thing to do but i did it and i got what i needed and then that's how that's how it really started and that's how yeah that's how the general and i got five grand to like okay i'm gonna get some samples i'm gonna you know reach out i was on ali like the first factory we we used you know it was literally me on alibaba and like connected do you do you have all the audits do you have sustainability okay well we'll try with you we don't work with them anymore but um you know that's literally how how it started and um yeah and but I always wanted it to be big so I did get after that after I kind of got products and samples I got investors and that's when the journey of an entrepreneur kind of starts because I was removed as um CEO at the beginning raised investment that was really tough I didn't know I was like you know I didn't know how to stand up for myself at this point I was you know um and I also didn't really know what I was doing you know So I had all these incredible people around me that had huge CVs and like really impressive.

31:33And yeah, had all the lingo and knew all the words. And I was thinking, I remember sitting in the first ever meeting going, I don't know what they're talking about. That is, I just, we all have had one of those, haven't we? When it's not your world. And I remember being in my first meeting and people discussing MOQs and 3PLs and this. And everything was like, I'm like JLS.

31:58the abbreviations i know um like i remember being sat there thinking oh my gosh they are literally talking swahili to me yeah like i have no idea and try as i might but but then also that become sort of so appealing to me and i was like i'm gonna i'm gonna talk about this one day yeah i still haven't i still don't i say moq that's about it yeah so i'm like i don't i find it a bit cringe now I'm like no and I always want to make sure everyone in the room feels like they understand what's going on but it's so interesting that we all have that meeting when it's not our background and we've got this idea and we know we want to run with it yeah we're like actually this is a different yeah universe yeah it is a different universe and how was the kind of because you just touched on that then but you then you have these samples and then you're like okay I'm gonna do this properly how was the raising money period of time for you yeah so I've raised money quite a bit now um but the first time was was when they were that was the first meeting when they were all talking about things I'd never I did not know a single single one of them um and yeah it was it was it was tough because I was I was completely taken advantage it off um 100 i had massive share dilution i knew i knew what was happening though an incredible lawyer who is an investor now and still our lawyer to this day um he said to me you shouldn't do this and i was like but i don't have another option and he was like okay and and then and he actually was when we get to that he was pivotal to lemonade dolls because it was about to go bust because um It obviously didn't work when you've built a community around women and it's run by men.

33:43I mean, who would have thought that that wouldn't have worked? It's so crazy because it should just be like, well, guys, of course this isn't going to fly. No, no. You know, it's not rocket science. Yeah, it isn't. And actually, even then, I was still writing the CEO emails. The investors didn't know, but I was writing the CEO emails and the CEO sending them because he was like, let me help me, you know, and I actually had to ask him to step in as CEO to get the money. So it wasn't, you know, I played a part in it and I knew what I was signing myself up to, but it didn't work and it was going to go under.

34:19And again, I was actually losing interest because I am super ambitious. I want to build great things and I want to do great things. And it wasn't, it wasn't doing that. We had sugar, I called them sugar rushes. Like we saw, I knew we were onto something amazing. we launched in Topshop and we sold more units in Topshop than Tommy Hilfiger, Calvin Klein and Topshop owned all together in the first month that we launched. And so I knew that the colours... The appetite is there. Yeah, the appetite. I knew we were onto something. But it wasn't right. We were spending far too much on advertising. We weren't getting the return.

34:53It was just, everything was wrong. And I then re-raised a second time and stepped in as CEO. and that was May 22 when we relaunched the business. I also had some really quite powerful people, really incredible people in at the beginning and actually it really limited the brand because there was too many cooks and because I didn't have the confidence and I'd never done it before, I was, it was always kind of, I don't know, I was too nervous to push it or, you know. Yes. This doesn't feel right but I actually haven't done this so I'm not going to argue with them because I could be wrong. Exactly.

35:27And also people, yeah. And they wanted to be right too. So anyway, so relaunched the business in May 22, and that really allowed us, well, that's when we've grown. Like, I think now we're probably around 5 ,000 % in growth. And it's really exploded, and it's been a really exciting journey and story. And the first three years in particular was just like, it was like a hockey stick. And it wasn't just because I was CEO. It was because I'd learned so much about not what to do. I built an amazing team. I was learning massively. and we did what we needed to do with no red tape you know with no return when i speak to founders now all the time i'm like it does not matter if you don't know just doesn't matter if you don't know what you're doing just follow the customer like ask the customer what they want and if you deliver it they will buy it because it's not that complicated do you know i mean when you say out loud everyone's like well yeah obviously of course businesses don't do that you know businesses so often it's so much it's so led by ego or like or like the people at the top with really clever people or prehistoric businesses that have done something similar and this feels like the right route because that really works for them or yeah exactly and so we just asked the customer what they wanted and we delivered it and it sold and it was just and no one was telling me not to do something or oh we need to follow trends or we need to get this designer in or we might still design everything to this day and like and but I'm not designer you know it's just I'm just the consumer I am the person buying the product yeah and my friends are and my community are buying the product you know and we just listen and we we and it works in those moments of kind of feeling I suppose knowing in your gut that it this doesn't feel right but also not having it's a bit of that imposter syndrome right that not having the confidence to kind of dig your heels in and you know this is the business and the brand that I founded and I don't feel comfortable do you think it's in those moments that I think oh gosh this is I feel very female and was there a was there a kind of period of time that you kind of like you said you actually like when you say that out loud you've had to get a male CEO in to almost deal with the board but you're actually telling the CEO what to say so you're across it but it's going to make your life easier that he's a male when you actually break it down I'm quite angry about the whole thing but in a good way and in a positive way and usually when I'm angry things happen so I was angry about the fact that there weren't products for some of my best friends to wear so we made a brand for it And, you know, now, you know, I'm so angry at the fact that only 2 % of women get funding.

38:14And I've raised multiple times now that, you know, I'm now at 10 Downing Street, you know, knocking on the door, you know, meeting with, you know, the small business minister being like, this is outrageous. You know, we did a pitch with Goldman Sachs. You know, I am like, I am. Yes, I am fully down. And I it's it's mental. And actually, I'm almost not ashamed to say this, but I found what you said about kind of like trying to make everyone in the room feel good about about not knowing acronyms. I actually feel quite guilty because and I look back and I wish that I didn't have to do this. But I very quickly almost became a man for a certain period of time, like in those meetings.

38:55and that's how I got what I wanted and that's how I got what I um I got the investment and I got I took control and and I got the people that I wanted um to invest and I'm pretty good at now raising money um because I know every acronym and I know every single word uh statement every single number like I am not a number I'm not analytical I am creative you know I'm bonkers like over here with the fairies creative like bonkers but when it comes to investment meetings when it comes that there is nobody not even my cfo maybe my new cfo she's fucking amazing but no one knows the numbers better than i do and i've had to learn that and i learn it quick and i i almost i don't want to say i'm ashamed of it because but i hate the fact that i had to do that do you know what i mean yeah i had to be like you're gonna you underestimate me and i'm constantly underestimated um all the time and i think we all we all are in in that environment sorry i don't mean that around women i don't mean that around consumers i don't mean that but just when you walk into a room you're like and they're like oh here she comes to that you know i've been guilty of it and this is what this is why i'm interested in asking you and i see it online and i think it's such a discussion now that women are making themselves more masculine in those scenarios and not being feminine because we've almost become sort of complicit with the fact that we have to be more masculine to get shit done.

40:29We also have a seat at the table. Yes, exactly that. I was like, I'm having a seat at the table and I'm eating here. So if you can't beat them, join them. Yeah, exactly. And it's almost, it can do that to you, can't it? And like you say, it's not anything to be ashamed of. I think it's part of, I think, every female's journey. I just hate that we have to do it. And I actually tell, you know, founders, I'm like, if you want to do this, this is what you've got to do, because this is how I've done it. It's almost like your Sasha Fierce is, like, stepping into... Do you know what I mean? I went to a Tony Robbins, like, conference, like, years ago, like, thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, and I just remember him being like, tap your chest, and like tell everyone that you've got this, you've got this.

41:12And I kind of feel like that's what I do. And then I walk in and I'm like, you're going to listen to me and you're going to invest. Because you want to get shit done. And I'm like, it's almost like you have to, like we joke about the acronyms, but you do have to speak a different language. And it is, it's that part that I found so intimidating at first, but now it's become my superpower. Because I don't know about you, but I'm always the person that walks into the room that with me, they assume that there's an agent behind me or someone else that's cut a deal or somebody and they kind of it's not so much so now but there was a period of time where they wouldn't take me seriously or talk to the person next to me and thought that I was kind of away with the fairies but I'm like you should have been looking a little harder because in that time I built my own management company because I didn't feel like everyone was doing it right and then you know yeah and I think it's sometimes being underestimated is your superpower, but I kind of hate that.

42:06I hate that when I'm raising girls. I hate that we're kind of like work twice as hard because people think that you work. I hate that that's the messaging and I hope one day that we can all just show up in the right way. But actually, until then, we're beating this drum. Until then, yeah, exactly. And also, it's not all bad because I think, you know, it's not all bad. There are incredible male investors. I've got some insanely amazing investors. Oh my goodness me. I spoke to Emma Greed about this and she was saying, look of course those situations can be but actually if I look at the course of my career and the trajectory of it and yeah everything else in between my key players for me have been male 100 % me too so it's not that it's it's not all men we're not doing that thing but actually but we know that the fun especially around funding yes the people making decisions are men so you know and that's what actually the change is and this is what I've been talking blabbing on about for a very long time to trying to much more important people than I but me you know being like we have to get more women in the decision making seat yes because then that's when things change correct you know we're just constantly trying to convince a guy that you know that they need to invest in lingerie when they don't understand lingerie they buy you know calvin klein six every christmas and that's it you know so they don't you know and that it doesn't or something saucy for someone yeah exactly exactly yeah which she never wears and it's like dusty in the back of the drawer that never comes out that's not going yeah yeah yeah it's so true it's so true we should touch on the success because we we touch on the moments that feel like you know when you're like we're on the edge of this but it's not quite landed and it's not I mean UK's fastest growing lingerie brand we're gonna take that we're gonna take that aren't we um number two on Elle's best laundry brand like the accolades here I mean and and and they keep coming you know you're on the right thing when like you say the community gets it and you have this moment where you're like okay we're outperforming these key players in top shop which is just wild hearing those accolades and those kind of milestones what do they mean to you personally and I suppose what have they meant for the brand because when this is something that's such a community-led business like you're all you're all sort of fighting towards that same mission together yeah the success and the growth I mean when you were talking we've got you know different when you talk about skims and you talk about and you're in that conversation how does that feel yeah it feels it feels amazing um i i think like any entrepreneur it's never enough like we're always looking we're not doing enough like what we're doing next year like what like what's happening like we need to keep growing we can't we can't slow down but i think um in terms of like what you're saying like how it feels and those accolades and how important it is i'll you know one thing that I think has been a key part to the growth is that we've taken the community online with us um so and what I mean by that is I send email like gmail type you know emails to them probably once a week around what's happening what's going on when we had uh when meta shut us down we did a campaign called too sexy for meta it was the biggest day in sales we've ever done we you know we we've taken we we tell them everything you know um when we went we do a lot for choose love we you know sustainability is a huge pillar to our business and we've donated over 40 000 briefs to refugee camps and and female refugees we went to irida which is an amazing um female refugee center in greece and and we took them on the journey with us on that and and it's like and then the donations started flooding in and we you know it's we've we take them with us and so when and we invite them we you spoke about focus groups earlier but we do focus groups with them we haven't done them for a while so we need to do more but um but we used to them all the time and and we do community events and last christmas um so just a few months ago um we had them all in the office like we didn't take them to a fancy bar like really like sometimes we take them somewhere nice you know but they were in the office and we were like celebrating with screaming everyone was cheering everyone was like you know hundreds hundreds of community members just in our office and they loved it so so not not in some gorgeous glam you know where it actually happens with the racks of you know like fabrics and you know underwear and and uh yeah and one of one of probably the best moments of the whole thing was when we did a community shoot and uh we had 100 women um all come for a day and it was just in a in a kind of studio in shoreditch and i said right we've got a photographer here but i'm not expecting any of you to you know i don't even know if you've got lemonade dolls on underneath but if you do want a photo we've got we've got um photography here and then i turn around and there's 100 women standing in lemonade oh my gosh amazing and uh i definitely ugly girl cried um you know during that i know this is like women from you know 18 to 75 you know literally and from incredible everywhere um they trust you yeah and i think that's what when you're building a brand and particularly when it's so community led trust is such an important thing isn't it and yeah turning around and seeing 100 women stripped in their underwear i mean trust it the trust doesn't get any bigger than that yeah literally literally um having having sort of stepped down as ceo at you know at the beginning in that first round and then knowing actually no this is where I sit you know very comfortably and this is what's best for lemonade dolls what would you say your what would you say your leadership style is how does that look for you so I think I'm a really good leader but I'm not a good manager and so when I realized that I was able to then delegate fast and that's really happened in the last two years so I think I'm the visionary and I can I can take people on a journey to the like you know to the North Pole you know wherever we're going we're going and I can kind of a bit like the community and build that trust and build you know take everyone with me and we've got the North Star whatever that North Star is for that day or for that week or we're going yeah and we just make it happen and we're a scrappy startup and you know what it's like it's you know it is wild you know and we do things that we've never done before pretty much every single day you know and we're achieving things that you know other brands of our size would have not achieved you know and like things that are just um brand new yeah yeah just just completely like completely bonkers um i mean we're at the official lingerie partner for the biggest movie coming out this year and um you know things like that getting that to happen which came from like one phone call and than me going we've you know to my head of product um and to a couple of them stopping like i don't know how this is going to happen but it's going to you know and like that's where i that's my usp my superpower for the business is to continue to keep like keep going we've got this we're gonna you know and i don't like there's a lot of crap that goes on in the business and i'm pretty good at sheltering the entire team from that they don't really know they don't know like and um And I might tell them after it or I might tell them or they might see when we're out of it.

49:49And I like let them in on like what mega fire has just happened. But that's probably that's where I sit. And and and knowing that is has helped massively because I didn't know that. And I definitely at the beginning of being an entrepreneur and even beginning of May 22 when I when I took over a back CEO. You know, I was I micromanaged way too much because I thought, well, I can just get it done quicker. well I'm you know I know I think no one's going to know the business better than me and actually you're going to stifle the company in that way and actually you need to let people make as many mistakes as possible but they hopefully then they learn from them and you know and then and then you're going to build little and I always say you know right now I really feel like you know we're a really small team and we've had a we've had an interesting last few months but I really do believe that the key players in the company they're all little entrepreneurs yeah I literally they're entrepreneurs and if so and we're hiring now and i'm like if they're not exceptional if they're not exceptional then it can't happen it won't work it's not going to and like we've had some incredible people like interview or work for us but incredible isn't exceptional and and they could be exceptional somewhere else right yeah that they're not exceptional you know they could be exceptional in a different company but right now i need a specific type And do you know as soon as you have that person set in front of you?

51:12I'm getting better. Yeah. No, I've made some serious mistakes. Because some people really have that instinct. No, I don't. I wish I did. I've worked with people for years and years and years and then been stung and thought, oh, my gosh. You know, so my judge of character is slowly getting better. I think it does take time. Because also, I don't know whether you're like me, but I really, really believe in people. I'm like, I really want you to do well. I really want to have your back. I'm a Leo I'm like super loyal and this is me to a T this is me so I so when you when someone's there and they're a salesperson and they give it everything I'm like oh my god they're amazing it's almost well they become like your extended family and I feel the same way that I do about my kids that I'm like I won't have anyone say anything bad about my team yeah you know and I've got everyone's back until the end and sometimes I think that's when it hurts the most when you have those situations yeah that you're like oh my gosh I you know I've had you and I was and I would always be so sort of so solid for you and I spoke to um Radhi Di Vluchia actually on the podcast and I love her and she's incredible and she said something really interesting and she says that she hires energy over skill yeah and she says for her that is so so important I always say attributes over skills yeah attributes over skill it's so interesting isn't it and I think and I think that's also so refreshing to hear I was talking to my niece the other day about grades and you know it's been exam season and and genuinely as much as i'm like i want you to do well and i'm that kind of and you know i heard dad was probably not so fond of me saying this but i'm like look it actually doesn't matter i've got three businesses i've not got a grade to my name but actually if you can sit and put everything in and come and show up and want it and have common sense and like you know you know you can't teach the hustle other roles you know you know in the finance department you're gonna have to know what you're doing but you can't teach that side and for what she wants to do I'm like just get out there and do it yeah and be good and want it and adore it and you're you're skyrocket because that's that's the kind of way it works you can't yeah you can't teach the hustle and you can't teach grit or common sense and common sense yeah yeah and like actually you know for a startup it's very you know there'll be different stages at some point you'll be able to have kind of you you will need different attributes and skills but I think for me even in our you know we're definitely still startup mentality we're a really small team you know and that like absolute like I'm going to get this done until it's done and I'm not leaving this office I'm going to you know and I don't promote toxic kind of like work hours with no it's not normal for anyone to be staying kind of till nine o 'clock at night but it's that drive of doing like it's that drive of i'm gonna get it done and like i can literally there's like you know my three and it's rewarding when you're like you say when it's that scrappy startup mentality yeah it's rewarding it's like you see those kind of you see it playing out and of course everybody like you say if everyone's sort of mini entrepreneurs yeah that lights them up in the same way it does you as much as you and they're like okay we're gonna we're gonna take this to the next level okay let me get what you're saying we're gonna do 100 % in growth this year i get no oh 500 okay yeah yeah well you're on you know that's like i mean it's yeah it's hard to find but when you find them that comes from you and that filters down and i think that's you can see that you can you radiate that i want to do our rocket round now okay um we ask i guess the same questions every week okay um the first one is what do you believe are the non-negotiables for launching a business like earth shattering absolute resilience and belief just unwavering and it doesn't matter like you said, doesn't matter what you've done before doesn't matter how clever you were at school, whatever your grades if you believe in it and you just keep focus and you do not look back and however many no's, how many times you're underestimated however many times you're told no or it's not good enough or it's never going to work um just keep going just keep going and you've got to believe the belief has to be there um when did you first realize that you truly launched

55:35um first time um it was probably it was probably well I mean there's key moments isn't there at the beginning like when we launched and Topshop and I was like we've just sold more than all of these huge brands oh my god you know that was a big moment but we were so it was so early early stages I think the key the key moments you never feel like you've you've made it because you're constantly pushing for more that's been an entrepreneur exactly exactly because otherwise you would just stop you know um I think when we did New York Fashion Week and um and we did a tip talk in Nordstrom with some most insane um I do these things called tit talks they're usually live they're kind of usually in like retailers it's like ted talks but tips who the fuck's ted tits you know and it's basically just like very raw conversations often around diversity racism um equality body positivity body acceptance anything anything but it's quite it's quite like um it's quite nerve-wracking because you could if you get it wrong you're yeah yeah we luckily haven't ever got it wrong yes um and obviously as a kind of white women it's also also even further on the edge but um so uh to lead conversations of course of course um but they've been really powerful and we did one in Nordstrom and um on the shop floor in New York and then the director of Sohouse was there and said uh that why we're going to pay for you to have a fashion show in uh in New York um you just have to do a TikTok and it has to be about XYZ um because Sohouse needs to be aligned with your conversation um and that was I was like is this happening?

57:16And at the same time, there was a singer, a music artist that came up to me and said, I'm going to write a song about Lemonadoles and I think you should be on the track. And, you know, all these things happen and like these incredible... Because that's like your whole world's colliding, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's unbelievable. Totally. And then there's this woman called Alethea Crimmins. You definitely will have seen her because she goes viral pretty much every other day. She's absolutely fabulous and she is the epitome of what Lemonadoles stands for. And here she is and she's now a really good friend.

57:41But she said, she would come on the panel for free and she's massive she's very really successful um and i've been on you know oprah and she's she's very very successful and uh without that that was like this is this is yeah if i if i die tomorrow i am i am happy but you know this is and also it's those moments of like and sometimes they can be really obscure you know yeah but like those moments of okay this like people are getting this yeah what we're putting out they're understanding it and i I suppose you've sort of had that in sort of different increments the whole way along, but to have those like...

58:17Yeah, yeah, that was a pretty amazing moment. What's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed? So I've been dreading this conversation, Michelle, because I've been listening to a load of your amazing podcasts, and I've loved them. And I've been listening to them all, and they're like, you know, all these amazing women have got such great practices, and I'm just thinking, shall I lie or shall I tell the honest truth? You tell the truth. I am on my phone they vary by the way they vary yeah I am on my phone to the moment I go to sleep to the moment I wake up like as in like that's the first thing I do and I do need to I do need to change it but that's just how I am and that's just how I keep I'm the same as you I'm the same as you and I wish I wasn't but I am and that's the fact but I was actually saying the other day to another guest that I have started this thing where I plug my phone in at the other side of the room yeah very good just so I because I'll even like get up for a wee and be like just quickly I'm like what also what the fuck am I going to do about it at 3am yeah what do you do about it yeah just just forget it yeah um actually but the other thing is you probably would actually just get sort of sorted out at 3am and that's my issue because no one's there to disturb me I know yeah yeah and then you'll be like oh at least I've written the email and I'll just press send at a reasonable hour but it's done it's off the list yeah um I know see this is we shouldn't talk we're not good for each other um so I started to plug my phone in and my husband was laughing at me the other day because he was like, babe, this is not doing much use.

59:37It does in the night now. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm like, okay, it's over there. Don't bother, don't look. I need to do that. It is good. And then also, I use your alarm on your phone, right? Yeah, I do. Yeah, which is another thing. I've got an alarm clock. I bought an alarm clock. It's still in the box. Yeah. Try and get it out. It does do something. But even still, at the minute, the alarm is on my phone. It's at the other side of the room. But it means I walk up to get it. And it's doing something. But the other day, he was laughing because I was hanging off my bed. You know, like where the lead was at the end of the show.

1:00:07Give it up. Like my literally feet were just hanging. So, yeah, it's, I'm the same, but I'm trying, I'm conscious of it. And I'm trying to, even like blue light, I know all of this is just not good for us. Yeah, no, I know. I'm trying, I'm trying, but I'm with you, girl. And I think most of us are. It's just true. I just don't think it's going to change. I don't think it's going to change. But I do set aside, like exercise, I teach spin still. Even now, I teach two classes a week, which is wild. That's like your escapism, right? Yeah. We have to do a spin class. We have to do it. Please, honestly, it's going to be amazing.

1:00:39We could do, because we've got such a good community here, we could do a big community spin class. That would be so much fun. Done. There we go. Oh, my gosh, you play good music. Yes. Of course you do. You're into music. Yeah, yeah. Like, the best music. I often say, like, you're going to have to sing, and we often sing whilst we ride. I mean, it's, yeah. Oh, my God. Okay, we're doing this. This has to happen. What is one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listened to?

1:01:04I hadn't listened to.

1:01:09Your energy is just so great, but you don't have what it takes to run a company. Okay. Well, you can't listen because you're running a company. But I still get told that all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. But your energy is what, from the conversation we're having, your energy is what runs the company. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, thank you. yeah yeah but yeah that's probably I shouldn't and I wish I'd realized that sooner yeah you know I think that's what like and I listened to it and I was like right yeah you're right and you know that that's kind of when yeah I wasn't leading the team but that kind of took yeah it it shouldn't have lasted that long but sometimes it takes the doing to know that actually yeah exactly and I just needed a moment to be like you know put your big girl pants on tell everyone that this is happening and and and go for it and do it and and then then you don't look confidence though and and it also comes with experience right like experience of did you have experience running a company no but now you do it i think this yeah exactly we harden ourselves sometimes when we look back and we think i wish i'd just fucking put my big girl knickers on or whatever but actually but you know it is the experience and that gives you the confidence to kind of pay that forward too right um oh what's one thing you wish someone had told you before you started your business um it's really really hard um it is so hard like this is the hardest thing i've ever done yeah you know like ever done um and i've done lots of wild things and this is without doubt the hardest chapter um in my life um and I'm really pleased that there are lots more like these amazing podcasts you know the podcast you're doing and there's more you know there's more female groups and female like community um like evenings because I think six seven eight years ago it just wasn't like that and people weren't talking about it and now my favorite conversations is when I sit down and we have a glass of wine and we say, how shit was your week?

1:03:22And I'm like, ah! And it's perfect. It's perfect because it's really lonely because you can't tell. You can't talk to your team about it. My husband, bless him, he's amazing and the most supportive person in the world. But he's not an entrepreneur and doesn't run a business. And my parents are like, well, I don't even know. They don't even know what I'm doing. So they're not living it and they're living it through you and of course they want to be that support system. but to have someone that gets it is like well actually I handled this situation like this Exactly, so just having that reality and just having that kind of, yeah, that connection and just honest conversations with some people doing it with you because I also do think that I think women also try and hide that as well, like I actually have more honest conversations with some of my guy founders because they don't need to protect themselves as much whereas some of the women And the idea of sort of perfectionism as well that kind of like, I've got this together I'm fine, because of having to feel like we have to have it together because in a male instance they do so it's exactly it's kind of it's a whole cycle isn't it exactly so i try and make it my mission like if i'm with some female founders i'm always like well this happened this week and it was absolutely terrible and then you can just see them all going okay okay this happened too and then it all starts to come out just to you know because one if someone goes well i've had just the best week and we've just had the best you know customer acquisition costs and we've just grown then everyone starts to hold back fold and you're like oh yeah well that's not the same so yeah I think just yeah those little icebreakers are always helpful um what would be the dream collab for your brand dream collab so it's really interesting so we haven't really um kind of worked with many celebrities or influencers because our um our customers have been our ambassadors um but we are looking to kind of do something now and we're and and i think and the the dream collab was choose love which is our refugee charity and we've got that we're now an official partner to choose love with tk max and h &m it's hilarious and them and adels um you know so um so that was kind of our dream one but if it was um i'd really love like adele oh yeah you know yeah i love her and i just imagine her being on stage being like all right all right you know like giving an amazing performance then just like getting a bra out you know i can so see you know and she just gives so she like oozes confidence and she always has done she's amazing and for you it's i can always sort of picture now that kind of musical yeah nod like yeah yeah on the vision board thank you adele thank you um and then lastly if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present who would that be um i was having a think about this question and i found it really difficult to find one person so i've got it down to three is that okay that is more than perfect so sarah blake sarah blakeley um she's up there up there um michelle obama absolutely obsessed yes like read literally everything like possible um about her i just think she's so incredible how good would it be to just have her on the phone yeah i just i just like just yeah just just like just voice note me occasionally it doesn't even need to be a call you're too busy michelle just a voice note yeah just a voice note yeah but i just think she would just be like the best advice and just have so much clarity and you know be like you're panicking about things yes don't need to yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah she's kind of so stoic but she's so i feel like she's very she would be like a good leveller in a room okay everyone just calm down a second and bring you back yeah um and then i know this probably i think a lot of people have said this but just oprah went through like i mean you just can't you can't not they are three you can't you can't not have her in the conversation like it's just it's rude yeah like you just can't so um so i they're my three each episode we get our guests to leave a tip almost like one piece of tangible advice if somebody's listened to this and they're a startup and they're thinking of doing something in a similar vein to yourself so they're like so inspired by that lingerie category and inspired by your story what would like one takeaway be that you think that you think they would need to know what you think they would benefit from um not going back to that kind of belief again but that just do not underestimate yourself like number one don't underestimate yourself just if you believe in it you are as good as the next person no matter what their cv says no matter what they've done like you are just as good you know you are just as good and you can be whoever you want to be and if that is to set up a new lingerie business or if it's to set up a new you know i don't know food business whatever beauty business do it but just know why you're doing it and lead with like absolute conviction you can pivot you can turn left when you were going right whatever it is doesn't matter and you don't actually even need to know the journey right you just need to know the end goal and the end goal can even change but and that is going to be really squiggly you know to get to that end goal but just if you have that belief and you just doesn't matter what anyone says you're just going to go and you're going to get there then you will be okay and you will still be standing yes that is such good advice it's such good advice i think we like we touched on before we sometimes over complicate i mean we over complicate everything don't we just just by default but i think actually if you believe it just get going yeah just get going and everything else will kind of yeah you'll find the way and if it doesn't work out you'll find the thing that does but you've yeah tried that and that you know i think it's just so important and like i think a lot of people the most people that i know that have led the most successful careers have been the ones that i think the saying is burn the bridges you know there isn't another option so you're not you know i love side hustles that's fantastic but at some point you've got to you've got to go yes and it's going to be really tough you know and there is no option there is no other option and that's what i've led with pretty much my whole life is actually there's no other option this is this is it like I am going to get that scholarship and leave Chichester and I am going to get signed and I am going to get like someone to look after me or somewhere to live in LA and like blah blah I am going to succeed and I am going to get that money and I am going to be you know just there's just no other option because there's so many times and you know you know this like so many times that it's going to be so hard that you have to get picked back up and you have to keep going yeah and actually when you get when you start to get successful and you start to bring in people I mean the last three months have been really um a challenge because there was kind of a potential takeover and I was going to be um maybe not in the position that I'm in right now and um and would have been massively diluted and really kind of I was on the verge of being completely fucked over um literally three months ago and like that was probably like that's been I was pushed to the point I've never been pushed before like never ever never ever in my whole life have I been pushed to that point but then I was like Lemon you're a fucking bad bitch and there's only one option you know and you can't stop now yeah like and actually this is only going to keep happening like the more your the momentum you build the more you know when you've got a you know hot commodity people are going to start to get interested in this they're going to want to buy in and they're going to want to you know they want a piece of the pie you know and actually i think it gets it's hard at the beginning because you're proving that you've got something and then i think it even gets harder as you start to build something great you know and then but if you remember that there's no other option then it will work and anything that comes your way it's like the you know i don't know everything you're up here and everyone else is like come down here you know yeah um take something from you all add something and goal is there yeah and everything else is just outside noise and distraction exactly that's what you have to kind But it takes that belief to be able to continue that tunnel vision.

1:11:41Because if you've not got that passion for what you're doing, all of that's impossible. And it's infectious. And when that happened in the last few months, I've now got some of the biggest, incredible people to now come and invest, to now come onto my advisory board, bigger than I could ever have imagined. Had a lovely, fabulous call with Emma Greed. and you know some advice from just people that were not even in my network until three months ago so that has now that's now leveled me up so it nearly it nearly knocked me over completely and now I'm like more in a better position than I've ever been exactly that you know and my but you often find that if you can get through those moments and you're still standing everything after it will just it propels you doesn't it I want to please you out of that Thanks, yeah.

1:12:35We don't like to hear that. We don't like to hear that. But you've done it, Gail. I did it. You're here to tell the tale. We did it. I'm here to tell the tale. We're still selling pants. Exactly. All's good. It's all good, yeah. All's good for the world. And then lastly, we talk about Lady to Launch, but I love to think about lunch, because it's one of my favourite things to chat about. How do you normally spend your lunch hour? Where are you? What are you doing? Who are you with? What are you eating? so i don't have a lunch break okay um but no most of us during the week yeah during the week i love food i do love going for lunch um but um yeah i we kind of have a very much like a 10 to 6 policy working hours 95 fine flexible but we work through everyone has the option to take a lunch and it's who I love by the way and totally obsessed with um have you do you know about them no no they're like just sound like such a random statement yeah so okay so so one of a life hack that I so you've seen those memes where you're like I'm trying to stay healthy I'm trying to get you know I'm trying to eat 100 grams of protein I'm trying to run a business I'm trying to build multi multi multi and I'm trying to have a relationship with my husband I'm trying to But like, you know, me to see my friends, not possible.

1:14:01But a life hack was, yeah, we should get sponsorship, actually, from this, from them. But yeah, they're like really, really, really delicious, healthy. They've got a lean range now for good protein. Oh, okay, we like protein. Yeah, so I have them for like lunch and dinner. What, and you kind of... In just microwave, it's three minutes in the microwave. Almost like a meal prep situation. Yeah, it's meal prep, but it's just like, it's really delicious. Yes. and yeah they're on the times fastest growing 100 businesses they've absolutely exploded they've got quite a few celebrity investors as well but yeah they're brilliant and that's been a life hack actually because it's allowed me so I get home late most evenings and I leave early and I'm working all day so actually having that where I'm not thinking oh my god I've got to like go to the shop I've got to cook I've got to chop it doesn't work so and then I can actually have I can exercise I can do the exercise I can't take my bitterness I can't see my husband well it is taking those and Emma Greed says this she doesn't think about anything small yeah she doesn't really think about you know what I'm having for lunch I like to just not worry about that exactly so those take it off the plate those little hacks yeah help that happen agreed thank you so much thanks for having me I have loved talking to you and it's just so incredible to your success and it's so clear to see why your success looks the way it does because your energy is infectious and yeah keep on disrupting that industry like it's incredible i love to see it and we are cheerleading from afar always thank you thank you so much i love that

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