Ep 53: From Journalism to Skincare: Susan Yara on Launching Naturium & Selling For $355 Million

0:12Today's guest began sharing her skincare journey online driven by a passion for transparency and real results What started as honest reviews and expert advice has transformed into the one of the most talked about skincare brands of the last decade. With a loyal following, sellout products and a major acquisition under her belt, she's reshaped what it means to be a founder in the beauty world. Please welcome to the podcast, Susan Yara. Well, thanks so much for coming. Thank you for having me. I'm so pleased that you're here. um it's just great I love the way when stars align and you're in town and we get to do this so thank you I'm so excited to talk to you I you're a girl after my own heart because I'm such a fan of a pivot and people pivoting at any point in their career and I just think I mean I've always known this about myself but I think as women we're so multifaceted there's so much that interests us and sometimes I think we can have a bit of a ceiling put on us like okay this is what you do and sometimes I think it's other people that are more freaked out by it than us yeah people don't like the idea of change um so I kind of I really admire this and it's kind of something that I really feel myself so I want to talk about your career and how kind of varied it's been because it's so, so impressive.

1:37From journalist to influencer to founder. I want to start way back when. I start each episode in the same way because I often think, and I didn't realise that I was going to do this until the series got underway, that actually someone's earlier life really then shapes the founder that they then become. So let's talk about young Susan. Yeah. How does she look? Where were you? And what was kind of your childhood like? My childhood? You know, not a lot of people ask this. You know, I had a very simple childhood. My parents didn't have a lot of means, but there was a lot of love. I grew up in the countryside in New Mexico, which is a state in the United States.

2:21Because a lot of people, when I say that, they're like, oh, in Mexico? And I'm like, no, New Mexico. It's a state. So I grew up kind of a ranch girl, actually. and I'm multicultural because my dad is Mexican, my mom is Korean, and I grew up in a primarily Latino community. And so I think a lot of people see me and they think like, oh, she's Asian. But it's funny because culturally I grew up actually very Latino. And so that was kind of my upbringing was just this very simple ranch life. And I always just kind of knew that I wanted a lot, you know, like in my life. And I, and I think that that's something, you know, people ask me how I raise my children and how I'm going to assure that they're going to, you know, go on to accomplish things also.

3:07And in a lot of ways, I, I want to just encourage what they want to do in their lives. Because when I think about myself as a child, I already knew from a very, very early age that I was going to grow up and not necessarily know exactly what I was going to do, but I was going to grow up and I was going to run something I was going to be like somebody you know that kind of thing and it was something that I felt my entire life so was it like you say you wasn't maybe perhaps sure of how it would look and what would that what that would mean but I suppose you kind of felt those entrepreneurial values even at that young age yeah and you know of course like my mom my mom is very entrepreneurial right she had so many little businesses that she started when I was a child.

3:52And I would help her with a lot of these things too. So obviously your parents will instill a lot of values and teach you a lot too about how you want to, I guess, work as you get older. So my parents taught me a lot of really hard work ethic. My mom was just always very creative and wanting to do things. And she's such a busy body. And my dad is very social. My mom is very social too. So I think these were things that I was picking up from them when I look back on it. But yes, and they were always encouraging me. You know, my dad always would tell me this story when I was a little girl. He said that we, you know, we didn't have a lot.

4:29So we didn't have a car when I was a little girl. We had like a little, we call them crotch rockets, like little tiny motorcycle. We would pick up groceries in it and everything and sometimes take the bus. And my dad said there was this one day when we, he and I got onto the bus and there was a little woman that was like sitting across from us and he said she kept staring at me and so he finally was like can I help you and she said to him that little girl is going to be someone someday and he would tell me that story constantly you know and I think that your parents can really have that effect on you where they're constantly telling you you are going to do xyz you know and so that's that's kind of where I think I got it all from and do you know what that's so interesting because my mom raise me in exactly the same way and I think that's how I want to raise my children too and I hope that I already am raising my children that actually I think and I think this in life if you hear something enough you believe it and that goes for the negative but it equally goes for the positive and I think if you are really kind of instilling that belief and I think I was actually having this conversation earlier that I'm raising three children but their life looks incredibly different to mine did right like my mum raised me on her own we were living in a hostel there wasn't you know there was zero financial freedom and I still want my children to have that work ethic and that kind of ambition and that hunger to go out and build their own life and their own future but equally I'm always toying with that push and pull because everything I do is inherently for my kids right I like want to give them this life and take them on these amazing adventures so it's finding that balance of both I think will always be that push and pull when you didn't grow up with a lot but you kind of have the ability to be able to have the luxury of providing that yeah that different life yeah for sure I mean I think we we know that the type of upbringing we had it taught us to have a lot of grit yes right but our children are living a much more comfortable life and so you can't necessarily teach them grit but when I take a step back because it gets me a little bit concerned sometimes.

6:35Yeah, me too. I like, I take a step back. Yeah, it's like my Roman Empire is like, I don't want to raise, you know, terrible children that are ungrateful, you know. But then when I take a step back, and I look at the lives that they're living, it's like, how do you just lead them into a better life, not just to be happy, right? Because I think that a lot of the time, we are so focused on teaching our children to be happy, or like trying to make them happy. But also trying to teach them something that I think we should be doing is teaching them how to be kind to other people right and so because I think that when I when I look back on my childhood childhood and how I got to where I am it was a lot of kindness from other people yeah and understanding empathy and how that looks it's so so interesting because we could talk about this all day it's such a it's forever it's a struggle isn't it it's trying to I mean parenting is just struggle period like we're just we're all out here just trying to get right no one yeah there's no there's no real playbook so yeah I've not read a book yet that has completely mastered it that's for sure yeah um when you went to school and you kind of reached that point did was there was there something that was particularly lighting your fire at the time like when it came to studying or you know I know that you then went on to be a journalist but did you study journalism at school I did yeah I uh I graduated with a uh BS in it's always funny to say that it's so funny I can't I love that I graduated with BS in a lot of stuff I've got a degree in a lot of bachelors of science in communications and journalism uh but saying it saying bachelors of science as a BS is really hilarious actually but really I did BS my way through school I actually tell people that I got through all of uh university you guys say university college um uh I got through without taking more than one math class and people are always like how did you do that and it's I talked my way out of it I hate math I'm a terrible Asian I guess I this is me I cannot stand math but if you get me talking about something you want me to write something I am all over it right but uh I took one math class it was like a pre-algebra you know it was like a prerequisite class to get into all of your other classes I hated it.

8:48And I just I'm not doing that. And I'm not doing this again. And so I avoided taking math. The rest I just didn't sign up for any of my math courses that I was supposed to. And then the last semester of college, the dean of the school set a meeting with me and said, you know, we've got a problem here. You haven't finished any of your math courses. And I said, you know what, I am probably the only person in all of your journalism school that is already guaranteed an on-camera job in New York City. And if you hold me back, you're going to not have one person graduate from journalism here who goes on to be in the news after their graduation.

9:27I love this. I love this kind of like certainty. And she goes, yeah, how about do me a favor and just sign up for a history of math class? I did I took history of math to finalize all of my math courses that is brilliant I like that yeah you were already running things you were already running yeah I already knew how I was gonna do this so so the confidence in your journalism obviously was apparent right even when you're studying yeah so well actually so when I was 17 I went to I graduated um high school when I was 17 years old. So I started college right before I turned 18. And I already knew I wanted to do something in journalism.

10:10I figured I was going to be an on-camera news reporter. And so a friend of mine happened to be, I'm one of those people where it's like, I feel like there's a lot of fate, right? Like things are presented to you all the time. It's just a matter of whether you recognize it and you take the opportunity. So a friend of mine had been working at a news station, a local news station. And, and I said, I was looking for a part time job. And he said, Well, if you want to be a journalist, so I kept telling everybody, I'm going to be a journalist, I'm going to be a journalist, I'm going to be a news reporter manifested.

10:39And, and he said, Well, I work at this news station, and they're looking for a PA, production assistant. And if you want, like, I can put in a good word for you. So I was like, sure. And so I started at 17 in the news station. And I did every single job that you could think of all throughout college, which is why I knew I was guaranteed an on-camera job because I was already on that track. I had already, I'd done every single thing. I had done everything from running the prompter to running the cameras to producing to, you know, trying my hand in the reporting. And I just, I already knew I was going to do it because I did it all through college.

11:16Yeah. And then you have, and in that place, you then have an understanding of the behind the scenes of what happens when you're on camera. Well, a mentor told me, learn every aspect of whatever job you're doing, because then no one can ever tell you that it can't be done. So like I would have like the camera guys with me, the photos and stuff. And I'd say, can we get a shot of this from this angle? And they'd be like, because they're being lazy. Sorry, guys. Not my voice. And they'd be like, can't get that shot. And I'd be like, you want me to show you? Yeah. No one ever wants to get exactly that.

11:50I love that. That's a very good approach. Just a very good approach. So what was it about that kind of on-camera reporting and that journalism that you loved and you knew that kind of that was for you? You know, I think because I came from a pretty rough upbringing, right? Like being poor in the United States especially is, you know, it's very polarizing, right? You're on one end of the spectrum where it feels like the whole system is set up against you. and also coming from that multicultural background and experiencing racism and the way that people can treat you especially if you're poor on top of that and you're a woman on top of that right um I think I always just really had this soft spot for wanting to tell people's stories right and help them right be a voice for them and so when I got into journalism I had this romantic idea like I had romanticized what journalism was and how I was going to tell all these stories and help people out.

12:47And then, you know, I got into it and I was like, oh, you don't really do this. It's a business. You know, it's like, you know, there's that saying what bleeds. It's like if it bleeds, it leads. And that was completely true. It was like we were trying to find the most salacious stories. And anytime that I would try to tell a more human interest story, my boss would be like, you put too much emotion into these stories. And so, you know, so I really wanted to be a journalist and tell these stories. But the reality of it was in the media, that's just not what happens and you don't have any control over that you don't that isn't like there's a real kind of formula to how that works yeah it's just like social media these days right like it's it's like people try to clickbait you clickbait yeah yeah yeah and those like and I suppose then it's more like the headlines exactly but it's it it's exactly the same thing as clickbait you're totally right so this so that this the journalist sort of phase of your life if you like or one part of for your life you then realize I suppose if you can't tell the stories that you want to tell and the intent that you had when you had your sort of sights on being a journalist it's very different right you've now realized that you can't do this human interest side of it it's not the stories that you want to be telling yeah then talk to me about how that sort of that transition to sort of online because I suppose online you're in control of what you share and you can talk about what you want to talk about yeah I was in the very early days luckily of the digital media experience right I went from being an on-camera news reporter in New York City to I took a job at Forbes magazine and at the time Forbes magazine was a much bigger authority than it is today now they've like transitioned into a completely different type of media company.

14:37But they were very well known as like the millionaire, billionaires, like aspirational magazine, where you pick up news stories on businesses, you find out about like, the things that, you know, billionaires do with their money for fun, that kind of thing, right? So they were venturing into Forbes.com, which at the time was crazy. Nobody was putting their publications online yet. And I had taken a job with them as a lifestyle reporter and a wellness reporter also. And I because I was just so done. I did not want to be on camera anymore. I hated having to always be, you know, aware of how I looked.

15:12And I really just wanted to write stories. And so I had pivoted from human interest to let's just do fun topics, right? It's going to be beauty. It's going to be wellness. It's going to be what millionaires do for fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so I took this job thinking I was just going to be writing articles. And it turned out they hired me partially because they saw I had this on-camera news background and I had learned how to do all of these different things, how to be the producer, how to run the cameras, how to edit, all of it. And so they were like, we need someone like her to kind of help lead this venture into video online.

15:50And so I happened to just be at the right place at the right time. And it was one of the first major media companies to start an online video network. And I was the person that helped them do that. And so that just kind of kicked off this career of starting video, like video channels for a lot of different publications. I went on to People Magazine and actually at People, I really just did more of the reporting side of things, but it was all online as well. And then from People Magazine, I went to, there was a website, I don't think it exists anymore called totalbeauty.com. So I focused only on beauty and then I went to pop sugar and I became their first true beauty producer and and like host and reporter for pop sugar and having kind of those real household name kind of media outlets behind you you then very quickly when they trust you but then you kind of publicly catch everybody's attention you quite quickly become a real trusted voice in what you're doing and was it was it clear that kind of beauty was always going to be at the forefront like when you started writing did it because I'm like I'm such a junkie right if there's a beauty article and you're going to tell me what to use and I and I bought one product that you suggested and that worked I'm instantly like want to be your best friend and I think that is kind of how it works right you become that trusted voice yeah if you tell me to buy a glass of water I'm gonna buy it that's kind of but that's kind of how it works because you become invested very very quickly yes for sure and did you notice that was it quite was it because I suppose when you're looking online it's quite easy to see that traction right and you kind of the data all speaks for itself yeah was it quite apparent to you quite quickly that this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

17:44This is landing. This is making sense. Yes. I very early into being a beauty editor realized I was understanding it really well. And not just understanding it in the sense of like as a consumer, but I was starting to understand and see how all the stories were the same. All the products really were the same. Brands just copy each other. You know, like what is it that really helps people? And then living in Los Angeles, I had moved from New York to Los Angeles a little later in my career. You start to realize every celebrity has plastic surgery, right? Whether they talk about it or not. So what are these things that they're actually doing that people should know about?

18:24That way they have access to that too, right? And it sounds funny because nowadays, like, you know, we see that, like, the Kardashians are sharing who their surgeons are now. I know. This is like this whole new wave, isn't it? It's a breakthrough. And people really appreciate honesty. And I think that's like everybody's like caught up. Well, because we just all want to know, right? Like if you tell me this is why you look the way you do, not only does it make me feel better knowing that I just need to, like you've seen people make that comment like, I'm not ugly, I'm just poor. I love when people comment that because it's kind of true.

18:57It's like these celebrities have so much access. Well, they've got access to these like incredible Hollywood surgeons that. Yes. And every treatment you can think of, they can have treatments happening all day, every single day. They can have a facialist come to visit them. They can have a masseuse come to see them. But tell me you're just drinking water and you swear by this moisturizer. Exactly, because we can all do that, but then we don't see a change. So what is it that you're really doing? Tell me the entire combination. And so that started to become really apparent to me. And my last media company that I worked at was called New Beauty Magazine.

19:27And they were more of an industry magazine that focused on cosmetic treatments. And they had a much older demographic, a much wealthier demographic. And I was working on all of their digital space, right? So I started their YouTube channel and I started really working on all their social media. And I would look at all the analytics and you would see that there were, yes, okay, so the habits that we saw online at that time were younger people were subscribing to YouTube channels, engaging with YouTube channels, making comments, doing all of that. But what people weren't seeing were the women who were in their maybe late 20s, 30s, 40s with incomes, right?

20:04Like they, and they want to make some decisions about, you know, aging, right? Because they are starting to see the effects. They're not teenagers anymore, right? Suddenly they're like, maybe I have been in the sun too much. They're not going to trust a pot of moisturizer at this point. Exactly, exactly. So they're looking for these things. They're searching it. So SEO became very, very important at one point in the internet. I mean, it still is now. Social media companies are becoming search engines too. But companies weren't focusing on that as much as they were, like on their websites, they were doing this, but they weren't doing this on with video as much yet.

20:36Right. And so I kept saying to, you know, at first I thought maybe I'm going to start like a little media company and it'll be focused on women's lifestyle, but we'll make sure that we're catering to the women that need high quality content, not just these videos where girls are doing hauls and showing like the products that they just bought, you know? Yes. Instead, we're going to find, run it almost like a magazine, right? We're going to find the professionals to tell them, these are the treatments you should be doing. We're going to show people getting these treatments done. I'm going to do some of these treatments if it makes sense for me and we're going to really start to talk about this and show because I was about 30 years old at the time and uh and I remember I would go to these potential investors and they'd be like you're a little old to be online and I'd be like well I'm 30 I guess but you know but thanks uh but you know I am also starting to see the signs of aging and I think that women would want to know from me versus a 17 year old about what anti-aging cream to use.

21:28Yeah, but let's talk directly to the consumer from the consumer. Exactly, exactly. It makes perfect sense. Yeah, so this is when I decided, you know what, I'm gonna go start my own YouTube channel and we're gonna talk about all the cosmetic treatments, we're gonna talk about skincare, what's working, why you wanna use these products and that just became, that's exactly what mixed makeup became. And did you instantly love it? Because if you think about it, it's literally blending all of your worlds into one thing in a space that you're in control of yeah doing what you love yeah instantly did you kind of have that moment where you felt okay this is this is the dream job this is like I'm this is what people talk of when they say do what you love you don't have to work a day in your life yeah that's it that's exactly how I feel every aspect of my day I think even you know we haven't even spoken about Naturium yet my skincare brand yeah and um you know I think people were were not surprised to see me start the brand, but also to see how quickly it grew.

22:29And it's because it truly does not feel like a job. It feels like something I just want to do every single day. I tell people this all the time. I sometimes like wish I was just as good of a mother. I think I'm a great mother, but like, I am so good at working, doing what I do because I love it so much. Um, and, uh, and it just comes so natural to me. Whereas, you know, like being a mom, like you said we're constantly trying to learn and we're navigating it the entire time and sometimes it can feel very hard whereas work to me does not feel hard whatsoever this comes very very naturally and it's fun you've built the business you've built the job and the kind of role for you that you could do with your eyes closed and is that passion of yours you know and I think when you get to that place it is exactly you've created a model that works for you and of course it's it will be like second nature yeah so let's let's deep dive into launching the brand now where did because I suppose the nature of doing what you were doing you're creating content you are telling people where to go what they should be using and I suppose quite quickly you realize that people are really engaging with this content yes but not only engaging with the content trusting you and what you're telling them to use yes when did that kind of moment when did it dawn on you that actually I should be I should be launching my own brand uh you know it was actually my my viewers that told me to do it wow I had no intention and actually the first few times he would say to me I was like absolutely not no way I don't want this undertaking really and why why it's a lot right it's you know the audacity that a lot of people have to think that they can start a brand you know this is it's very hard now having having done it but at the time you were still kind of this just yeah the idea of business takes the fun out of absolutely and it's you know it's just a whole different it's a whole different thing I think we see so many you know influencer and celebrity beauty brands or any type of brand come and go because I think they think it's that easy right like you just put something out there and because you have followers people are going to buy it but that's not necessarily true there's so much that happens in the background in the operations of it creating a quality products finding the cash to keep the products made you know that kind of stuff so you know people don't really understand how hard building a brand can be and not only that you can of course having a following and have an engaged community is going to help right because they believe you they trust you yeah however it will mean that they buy it once yes to support you but actually when that product runs out do they still feel like they need it again that's the repeat purchases is the important thing when you have that following and actually that's what makes naturium such a successful brand is our repeat uh purchases our repeat uh customer is very high right let's talk about the concept of naturium and like you said to your followers and your kind of community told told you that this is what we need you to do what having had the background that you have had in journalism reporting tv creating content and everything else in between what was the first step that you took you know let's let's speak sort of if we're talking back then when Natrium was a startup yeah what was that first call or who was the first call you made to get this off the ground okay so I you know this is a very weird time right it was the very start it was right before the pandemic okay like a month remember that yeah good times before we knew what we were we had no idea what was about to happen um i uh i had been working on on a different brand i was trying to bootstrap a brand and um i was already trying to see how hard that could be and spending my own money and you know just really trying to be in the weeds of that yeah and sometime in about february 2020 the contract manufacturer i was working with, they were based in Korea, sent an email basically saying that they weren't going to be able to continue working with me after like months of investing time and working with them.

26:41And it's such a bizarre email to get because they are also going to lose time and money, right, to just say, we've got to stop. And they were saying there's this virus that's starting to shut everything down here. And so this was before the rest of the world had gone into lockdown. And so I just remember thinking there's like this zombie apocalypse coming because what is this email that I'm getting? Even that or someone's really trying to break up with you. Like they really didn't like me, I guess though. No, they were trying to like launch a hand sanitizer with me. And I was like, why? Like, of course I had no idea.

27:12Right. Gosh, that's so interesting. Yeah. They're like, we could do hand sanitizer. And I was like, what? I'm going to launch a brand with hand sanitizer. Little did I know everybody was going to pivot to hand sanitizers like three months later. I know. Yeah. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Yeah, I know. So I said, you know, no to the hand sanitizer. And I just started to reach out to every, I was in a panic because I had had this goal of launching this brand in that year in 2020. And what was the brand that you were going to launch? It was that that was actually it was going to be skincare and makeup.

27:45So it was like that skinification of makeup. I saw that trend starting to happen, which now we see is like the trend. So I had seen that kind of coming. And I thought, you know what, that's what I want to do. And so the brand was actually called Base Beauty. Yeah. And we had a little hashtag I had trademarked called Base Face because I was like, show me your Base Face. Amazing. I love that. But that didn't go. And it's done. You know, in an email. And so I started just calling everybody I knew because I was like, who can help me find another contract manufacturer this late in the game? Because I've got all these products I've already started working on and I just need to transfer them to another contract manufacturer.

28:24and if you work with a contract manufacturer you know it's actually not easy to find one you know that's probably one of the hardest things in starting a brand start yeah and you know getting them to take you seriously to have the money to order the minimum amount of product that they want you to you know there are just so many aspects to this so I was in a panic because that had been the hardest thing to find and that was what was ending you've built a relationship and yeah and it's out of your control and we already had some formulas that we were ready to go with so it was kind of like, okay, what do we do?

28:54So I had been using, um, Notorium had just launched and it had launched kind of as like a, it was like a silent launch. My, my former business partner had, um, kind of put it out there to test the waters to like see if this was going to pick up. It was the first brand he was launching under his incubator, the center, and he was kind of testing it. And so he had sent it to select, I guess, skincare influencers. And I was one of them. Right. And I had started using it and I saw how good the quality was, but it was very excessively priced. And that really, that really, I felt that because I was kind of like, how do you do this?

29:28Because on my own, it was good. I was going to have to have higher prices because I couldn't afford to order massive amounts and then bring the price down. So I was very curious. I didn't know him well, but I was very curious how he was doing this. So I just reached out to him. Now at that point, we were like a couple of weeks into lockdown. Right. And, and so I really had nothing else to do. I was just sitting at home with a six-month-old baby on my boob. You know, like that was all I was doing. Baking, banana bread, and whatever else we were doing. Exactly. Oh, I made so many different – I have such a good chef.

29:55Yeah, I was an amazing chef. And so I sent him a LinkedIn message, and he immediately wrote back because he was doing nothing also. It's quite a good time to do business. Yeah, exactly. So we got on a call that day, and we talked for hours. And I was just asking him all these questions. I told him about what had happened with my brand that I was trying to start. and uh he was like you know let's continue talking and uh because we didn't know each other and so we continued talking for the next couple of weeks and you know at that point we were starting to see how serious lockdown was you know we were all in this that this was maybe potentially not ending for a while and so it felt like a terrible time to start a brand suddenly right because no one knew that two months later e-com was going to burst it was going to explode so he says to me you know what, you've already given me so many different opinions about Noturium that have helped shape the brand already.

30:47And he's like, why don't we just join forces on this brand, since we have no idea how this world is going right now. And you take this over. He's like, it needs a founder. It needs somebody who like really drives the brand. And I sat and thought about it. And I was like, you know what? Yeah, let's do it. And it's one of those things where, you know it this would have only happened in this weird time of our lives where like this pandemic and we're in lockdown because in reality a normal day we would have just been like courting each other or maybe it would take it would take a year and he would invest in a brand coffee in or we should have lunch to discuss this that never happens no but this moved so fast it felt like you know when people say that they like met the love of their life and they got married and are engaged and married so quickly this felt like that it was like I'd met this man we started talking we clicked and like two weeks later we're starting to talk business and then a month later we're starting to negotiate like how I become a business partner with him and then just a few months after that I'm now a part owner of the brand you know it's just crazy isn't it it's just crazy but it just when those when those moments happen it's definitely the universe's way of saying this is it fate yeah is you're always being presented with opportunities it's a matter of recognizing it and then taking the opportunity absolutely yeah but also and also putting yourself out there because yeah had you not have tried those products and said actually I'm gonna call this guy and see how he's doing this this also would never have happened so you kind of always have to put yourself into the room yeah I think sometimes we just it's that fear of embarrassing loudly that we discuss a lot on this podcast or the fear of kind of sending that message like what is the worst that's living the cringe live in the cringe there we go it's so true because the moment's like beautiful things are born out of feeling a little bit cringe yeah I mean being on social media I remember when I just I quit my day job and I told people I was going to start a YouTube channel I just remember especially my ex-husband's friends being like that's what she's gonna do you know and it was like I'm yeah I'm gonna push forward so absolutely live in the cringe you're gonna see me youtubing so get over it so this now launches you're you've gone into business with said man we keep calling him man oh ben ben he's an icon beauty icon he's been in this industry forever there we go so you're now in business with ben it clicks it makes sense you're now a part owner of this company and is does everything kind of just unfold but kind of yeah I mean, it was like beauty boot camp, like brand boot camp working with him because he's always been a very clear intentioned person.

33:39Right. Right. Which I always appreciated about him. The minute we started talking about me joining the brand, he was like, I just want you to know that this is a brand that I intend to sell. Like this is not a brand that you're going to like keep in your family and live off of this for the rest of your life. Like this is a brand that I am going to grow as a business and it's going to be a fast growing business and you have to be on board for that. And, you know, I was actually saying this earlier. I was on a different podcast and I was saying that, you know, I think a lot of the time people feel very embarrassed saying that they are creating a brand to eventually sell it.

34:14But in reality, like 95 % of us are doing that. Like we actually do intend to build a brand and sell it. but the difference is you actually can be very proud of that brand too and passionate about it while also having that intention. I don't know why there's, there shouldn't be something wrong with that. Yeah. Right. Yeah, of course, of course. And that's business. Yeah. And so I remember the first time he told me that I did feel this, like a cringe. I was kind of like, Oh, I don't know. Like, is that, does that feel wrong? But then I start to realize, no, I can still really love this brand and I continue to write.

34:46I sold the brand and I'm still very much part of the brand and, you know, writing hard for it because I think that it's still a baby. It needs that growth. And I'm very proud of it, you know. And do you think there's something that's really feminine in that? Do you think that's something that, you know, we're both sat here as females, but I think, do you think there's something about men? They're very good at being upfront. They don't feel any way about just sort of talking business and getting straight to it. but we do we get a bit too emotional when it comes to like you say like attaching these feelings don't get too attached to this brand because we're going to sell it yeah and I was like oh so I'm attached to the brand but I knew I was going to sell it you know that kind of thing and so and I think that is okay and you know you're bringing up something that I think is one of the main issues that we deal with as women is that we are so emotional we are so attached it's one of the things that makes us magical too right um but at the same time we feel like we can't speak about things as uh as uh you know like we can't be as um i guess visible about the way we feel about things right and as open well because people will assign a name to that they'll call us a bitch yeah selfish yeah like she just she only cares about herself she's so self-absorbed yeah so are men every single man the the weirdest ugliest man I've ever met is like so full of himself why am I not embodying this it's so true I think I have more the rudest man will tell me things that I'm like wow that just came out of your mouth okay okay exactly that but we kind of feel like we have this kind of real self-deprecating yeah like we're not allowed to feel because I think we're sort of told that that makes us likeable right and I think it's kind of play everything down yeah because you can like do well but don't let people think you do too well because they might not then like you for it yeah I think it's just a really really interesting outlook and also your proof that you can those two worlds can collide yeah like you can of course have an intention for your business and whether that is okay we're gonna grow this quickly we're gonna sell this we're building this brand to sell it but actually I'm still really attached to it and I care for it so I'm gonna stay on and stay part of this yeah I think it's just great to be honest and have that kind of clarity from from the jump yeah well and I also think that people don't realize that you you kind of need as a startup company right eventually if you are growing fast you eventually need a bigger company to come in that has more more cash yeah um more power to be able to continue growing this brand Yes.

37:26Right. So. So let's so let's sort of talk about that for a moment. So you so you launch you launch in 2020. It technically silently launched in 2019 at the very end of 2019. But yes, officially 2020. With you part of it, it was 2020. Yeah. And then in 2023, that was kind of the big milestone and the big acquisition. I mean, in just three or if you want to say four years. Can we just talk about this and this deal and how this will come about? Because I mean, if you're comfortable to. Yeah, of course. It's huge, but it's such a. This is a real unicorn business like this. It's so incredible. Can we talk about what happened in 2023 when the deal kind of started and just just tell me everything?

38:19Yeah. Um, so we, uh, probably at the end of 2022, uh, again, from day one, building the business to sell a business. Right. Um, so my, my business partner had set up the backend of this, this company and the operations to be a business that we, we grew to be, um, very attractive to not just consumers, but to a potential buyer. Right. Right. So there was always this goal. And I, again, I think it's very important to have these kinds of goals set, right? You are doing something. This isn't just for career or for business. I think in life, if you're going to start dating somebody, are you dating this person because you want to just date this person and have fun, or are you dating this person because you're going to set the goal of trying to marry this person?

39:03So I think that this is a thing that you should be doing in every aspect of your life. And so we set this business up from day one to be a business that was going to be sold. So at the end of 2022, my former business partner, Ben, had said, I think we need to start the process. Because it takes actually a lot. I think some people assume that it's like a company reaches out to you and they're just like, we'd like to buy this. It's not like that at all. In fact, it's more like selling a home, like real estate, right? You have to take a step back, look at the house, make sure there are things that are fixed.

39:36Because if it's not fixed, they're going to cut off parts of the price that you're asking for, right? So it's the same thing. So we take a step back, start looking at the business that we're building. Is it ready to be acquired? You find an investment banker who, again, like if we're thinking about real estate, kind of acts as your real estate agent, right? They take a look at it and say, well, we'll have to definitely fix these things, right? We weren't that old of a brand. So there weren't like skeletons in our closet or anything like that. Like our financials just needed to be tweaked a little bit.

40:07We needed to get some trademarks solidified in other countries. It was like some little things, some like, you know, like cleaning house a little bit. And then the following year, they take it out to market. And so when they're doing that, they're kind of first silently just like telling potential buyers that Noturium, if you're interested, might be a brand that you should be looking at. Right. And so they start seeding it a little bit. And then eventually it like officially goes out onto the market, like putting that for sale sign on your house. And was that a nerve wracking moment? A little bit.

40:39But yeah, because now you've got to make sure your brand is immaculate forever now. Yeah. Right? Like you can't have any mistakes. No mistakes because you want to make sure that nothing goes wrong now. Yeah. And so then you just start this process with different potential buyers. It feels like you're dating in a lot of ways because you're spending significant time with them. You're not necessarily just like getting on a Zoom call and being like, hi, let me just tell you a little bit about my brand. Okay, 30 minutes are up. No, you're spending hours with them in a big conference room with a presentation that you have been working on with your investment banker and your team for months.

41:13It's a big, big deal because you're trying to show the best of your brand and what it is and the potential of your brand still. Why should they buy this company? So we started this process. And then by the end of the summer in 2023, gosh, it feels like this was like years ago. It's so not. I know, I know. We realized that Elf Beauty was the next family, the next home for Notarium. And so we sold it for$355 million. I love the way that you say that. Just a small, just a small. A little bit of money. And I just, I love it. I love the kind of, the definition of fast growing, quick. Like you did what you intended to do.

41:59You know, and I, but listen, I tell people, they're always like, oh my God, in three years you did that? No, it was a decade. I started my YouTube channel in 2014, you know? Yes, exactly. Like I cultivated a community. There were people that started to become very invested in skincare. We now have a skincare community of people who are just dedicated to that as influencers. This was not a thing when I started, you know? And so we've built this and it led to this acquisition and this company and this brand. And did, was there ever a kind of, because obviously I know that you sold it, but you, you, you're obviously still there.

42:40Was that ever a decision that you were kind of in doubt over whether you would stay? Obviously when your baby then is acquired, obviously it changes and the dynamic will change altogether. Yeah. Was that a difficult decision? Was there ever like, this is going to be a clean break? No, not at all. It was, I already knew I was staying on. Like it was not a question whatsoever. You know, so early into the conversations with Ben, you know, he would say to me, most people don't enjoy staying on as a founder once it's been acquired. So you should try to not make yourself, like we had this whole thing.

43:14It wasn't going to be my name attached to it. It wasn't going to be, I wasn't going to be on the social media. And it was because we didn't want the brand to have to only depend on me, right? But I think that nowadays, that's not the right strategy necessarily. For some brands, it might be. For some brands, it might not be. But I really started to think about it. And he was like, you want to be able to have the option to be able to walk away from the brand if you don't like who buys it. And I kept thinking in my head, that's just not the way I want. I don't want this brand to go this way. First off, I'm a social media personality.

43:49Right. Like my name is attached to this brand, whether we want it to or not. Right. So that's like, let's first look at the reality of this. Right. And so as we got closer to this acquisition process, we really had this intention of I wasn't even going to be part of these this process. And it was we were going to let the team do it. We had a president. We had a CMO. We had all of our executives in place. So let them do it. Let them do the process because they're going to be the more important people to go with the brand. and as we started the process I took a step back and I one day I remember walking into Ben's office and I was like uh-uh I'm gonna sell this brand and uh and he was like he sat there and he like thought about it and he goes okay you know yeah I mean at that point he'd worked with me for a while and I think he trusted that I needed to be the person that went up in front of these these potential buyers and told them why this was the brand for them and do you know what it's so refreshing to have in that space and we discuss this on this show having like such an incredible male ally that really believes in you and supports you and has always kind of understood that and let you kind of flourish in that setting where you know it would be I would say more often than not that you know particularly even doing this podcast where actually in those instances that's the side that he would feel that he is going to pick up a new deal with the creative and everything else in between.

45:14So how incredible that you have, you know, a male support that really. Yeah. And listen, I had to kind of prove myself, right? Like at first he was like, I'm going to teach you. And he did. And I think once he saw that I was picking up the business aspect of it and I could really run, he let me, you know, and he would encourage it too. He'd always tell me this. He'd be like, stop thinking like a content creator you are a brand founder yeah you are a business woman and you know it's again it's like it's like my dad being like the story of how I'm gonna be somebody someday yeah Ben became that person who was like you're a business woman you are a brand founder stop thinking like a content creator that is anybody can do that but to run and to start and run a successful brand not everyone can do that so when so you were always clear that you were never leaving you were staying it's kind of a rare position to be in going from being someone you know a startup founder to someone who's led the brand through a huge acquisition but then still gets to steer that ship forward and still be kind of in that driving seat has it has your kind of idea of what success for the brand that kind of idea of what success is for the brand has that changed.

46:29No, you know, for me, the brand was always about delivering quality formulas, not just in the ingredients, but also in the way that the product felt like you want to have a fun experience. You don't want it to be sticky or pill on your skin or not work with any of your other products. You just don't want it to be a bad experience, right? You want a perfect experience from the packaging to the formula to the ingredients to the response that your skin is having to it. Right. So I always wanted that to be accessible because my mom was a beauty lover from day one. Right. She's a Korean woman. She's loved skincare.

47:03She got me into skincare when I was a teenager. I was like 12 years old and she was like, we're going to the clinic counter, you know, like, um, but we were poor, so we couldn't afford everything that, that my mom wanted to use. And I remember when I first became a beauty editor, I would get all this PR and I'd get these creams that were hundreds of dollars. And I was like, I was so excited about it because of the cost of it right and i would take it to my mom as a gift and i'd say i didn't pay for this like just use it this is for you you're gonna love it and then i'd come back months later and it'd be untouched and she and i'd say to her why aren't you using these products and she'd say well you you said it's expensive and i don't want to waste it and what a terrible thought right and i think a lot of people think this way about their beauty products my mom would be exactly the same yeah they don't want to waste it but that's not how you should think about skincare your skincare products should be used every single day consistently you should feel good when you go pick up more products and not feel like you're breaking the bank yeah trying to love your skin but also having that nice kind of self-indulgent experience yes yeah it should be i mean that's at the bare minimum we should be able to just have the the basic products that we love and be able to do our morning and nighttime skincare routines and then love our skin yes because skin actually has such a big impact on our mental health.

48:17You know, like if you've got, you know, some kind of a skin issue, you've got acne, you've got, sometimes I get like dermatitis or I get melasma. When it's really bad, I don't feel as confident, right? But when I love my skin, it doesn't have to be perfect, but when I love it, I'm super confident, right? And this happens with every single person. So the whole goal with Naturium was to be able to give that to people, make it accessible, make the pricing so it does it makes sense because you don't need to spend a hundred dollars or a hundred pounds on you know a product just to get some kind of efficacy no the efficacy is having a product that you can use consistently and love it yeah right so that was the entire point and now it's about getting that product into everyone's hands yeah and then you're exactly right that you touched on it earlier with that kind of repeat purchase and repeat customer because you can because you're making it accessible yeah and it's but it's still that premium quality and that experience that you'd expect I mean you're kind of you're everywhere as a brand from you know from Target to a Space NK here which is my favorite yes oh my gosh it's my happy place that like that is a treat to me like wandering a spare sort of 20 minutes half an hour by myself no children in a Space NK is like therapy yeah yeah for sure um how does it feel to see the brand that you have built sold still running and you know are so passionate about to be well received in the way because obviously you know what you're doing you know what you've built you know the formulas you know the brand that you're passionate about but for it to land yeah and for everybody to understand it in the way that you do?

50:02And that's from retailers to the customers to, you know, everyone online. How does it feel when somebody actually understands it? I mean, the best feeling ever is people walking up to me saying that my skincare brand has changed their lives, right? So it's the most amazing feeling and it makes you, it keeps me going, right? It lights that fire under me all the time. But it's all with intention, right? Like we constantly educate. I personally go to the retailers and tell them why this is the brand. Just like I walked into all those meetings telling the potential buyers, this is the brand for you.

50:37And here's why. Because I think that I tell people this all the time, we don't need another skincare brand or a haircare brand or a fragrance brand. There are plenty of beauty brands out there, right? But how do you differentiate it? It doesn't have to be something that's a massive change from the industry. You just don't need to do what everyone else is doing. Give people what they need. If a vitamin C serum is great, but it oxidizes and it's$150 and it's, you know, you only got like three to four months to use it before it's nothing, it's not going to do anything for your skin. Fix that. Fix that.

51:08We have a vitamin C serum that is, you know, stable. It doesn't oxidize. It doesn't irritate your skin because we use a skincare ingredient technology that encapsulates it. So then you get this beautiful formula that makes your skin look juicy and hydrated instead, and you can use it for the next two years you know I know when it's got a short and it costs a quarter of the price less than a quarter of the price of the otherwise it's crazy you're so right when I feel like I've already got to run out and get it but I've not actually used it yet yeah it's kind of a crazy thing and you spend more money to do so which is wild yeah what does your day-to-day role look like now my day-to-day role yeah it has absolutely changed I'd say there there's a lot more team now running a lot of the stuff that requires daily attention, and that's more the operations, right?

51:57Forecasting, people don't understand. Supply chain and forecasting is one of the hardest parts of having a business that's successful. You're constantly trying to figure out how much product you need to have made. And it's not just making the product. It's like coordinating how soon you have to order the ingredients to then get them shipped to the manufacturer, to then tell the manufacturer, this is the day that you need to make our products to then get that product put into packaging to then get shipped out if there's so much and then also being ahead of like which is kind of impossible but you know adding into that forecasting that some kind of really influential tick topper could now a viral moment isn't always the best thing it's it's incredibly it's you're lucky obviously because you sell out of a product and you make this this chunk of revenue but then you've got another issue happening and that's that you're leaving money on the table because you don't have product to sell anymore right so there there's like it's a catch it's a catch 22 a little bit you know um but yeah you know it's it's great if you can fulfill it exactly and that takes a lot of manpower and smarts behind the scenes that stuff i don't do it anymore it's amazing i don't chase money anymore that's amazing i'm not handling payroll anymore i used to do every aspect of this business i used to be the person in customer service responding to dms and emails and they'd be like tell susan I said hi I'd be like I'm sure she'd love that but they obviously they're not thinking that I'm the person answering the emails right people don't a brand launches and they just assume there's the army that you have now behind it way back then and of course there isn't so what do you do kind of on a day-to-day capacity so you're out of the bits the nitty-gritty that aren't productive for you and you where are you now so now I focus mostly on product innovation and marketing nice Yeah, it's the best part.

53:43It's the most fun part. So now I'm in the like the fun, you know. So really, I mean, Notorium does launch a lot of products. It's just kind of the way we built the brand. I feel like I just always have product in my head. You know, I'm always like, okay, wait, wait, I've got an idea, you know. So it's really staying on top of product, making sure that we're creating it. And when you, you know, we have a product pipeline that expands all the way up to like the next two years. So we know what we're creating. And what people don't realize is, you are like sending out these product briefs and then you're sending it actually to a few different labs right and these labs are then sending you their interpretation of what you told them you wanted always right and so you're testing out products making sure that you can give feedback on that make sure making sure that they nail it and then narrowing down who you're going to work with on that product right um now we're in a whole different space where it's like i'm not trying to find contract manufacturers they're trying to like bid for our work Yeah, I bet they are.

54:38Absolutely. And so we have lots of options and you have to kind of contain that and make sure that you're getting the right kind of product that you think your consumer is still going to want. So I work on that aspect of it. And then I also, again, like marketing, I'm not necessarily on the marketing teams on the day to day, but I'm here in London right now because we're expanding. Actually, we're here to announce that we're expanding in boots, right? So we're going from 100 stores to, I think, 400 stores. Amazing. So we're celebrating that. We have two new products here that are launching. So it's just a lot of, you know, like promoting the brand and making sure that we're, you know, completely, you know, like getting it into the hands of everybody and making sure people see it.

55:16But also working with distributors, right? Like making sure that we're trying to get into as many countries as possible, work with these retailers and really lock in with the retailers too as business partners. Yeah, because it is like you say, it is consistently new territories, new partners. and it's that consistent storytelling which is the only person that can do that in the right way is you right because it's your it's your baby you kind of very humbly spoke before about the acquisition uh by elf correct me if this is wrong 355 million dollars which is a huge amount of money. Has your idea of success changed?

56:03Oh, that's a good question. Geez, has someone asked me that before? No, I think that it's not necessarily about money, right? I think that obviously money helps. It's really nice to have. But I think it's, I feel more accomplished when I set goals and achieve them. So selling the company was a goal. We didn't necessarily have the amount of money that we wanted to sell it for. We had like a range. So that was an accomplishment and that feels like success to me. Right. But truly the success of the brand is making sure that it goes on to be a household name and can live on without me. Right. And so that has been my idea of success for this brand for, from the very beginning.

56:44So have we gotten there yet? No. So I haven't, I don't think I've necessarily been successful yet right I think I still need to keep going no no no I I realize just so you know I'm sat here very objective and very neutral you're incredibly successful both personally and the brand thank you thank you it's it's so incredible to hear like it's just such an inspiring story and what I love is as I said at the start of the conversation being somebody who is a big fan of a pivot and you know really showing like I'm raising I've got three children I'm raising two daughters but really showing I mean this is the whole reason for this podcast right that there isn't a ceiling for women and you don't you don't necessarily have to complete the math course yeah it's just about have the same audacity that a man has it's it's And it's so true.

57:42And I just think we don't do it enough. We play small and we, I think like, because we'd want to be liked and we kind of are told that it's like that big speech in Barbie that, you know, the America speech. and she's kind of saying you're supposed to have this, but not too much, but this and not like this. And I think it's so inspiring to kind of see you there really kind of owning those rooms and doing exactly what the men also said that they were going to do and bossing it. It's so, so incredible to see. And don't get me wrong, sometimes you can boss a little too hard in that and you're like, I just need to take a step back for a second.

58:25I just want to be a lady. is a trauma response yeah um before I do our rocket round which is our quick fire round but before I do that I actually want to touch on um your presence online and almost how open you are with kind of that honesty and the balance and I'm supposed to have it all and run a business like we've got no kids and raise kids like we've got no business and everything else in between how do you asking for myself here um how do you balance it all and I know and I don't like that word because I do think it's used in such a toxic way because I I say all the time by kind of being here today means that I'm actually not with my kids all day which means that I've missed clubs and I've missed taking them to paddle but by being here it means I've got a great podcast episode and this is now going well so something always has to give and I think I'm always really realistic on that kind of idea of of that and of course I do believe you can have it all but it's not linear and not everything's going to look great at once some there's always a ball dropped somewhere um how do you navigate life and business and everything in between you know I um so you kind of I always tell people that that it's not linear right you're always something you you take from another place to be able to put into it.

59:51You're always fucking up something. Exactly. Winning at something. Exactly. Which one you know. Exactly. And so one, I put a lot of value on my time. Right. I'm not going to just, you know, like if someone wants to hang out with me or if I'm going to go on a trip, we're going to make this valuable. It's going to be worth it. Right. Because I'm taking time then from something else, whether it's my business or my children. Right. The other thing, though, is I started to realize over the last couple of years that I needed to also feed myself. Right. Because as women also, we make sure that everyone else is taken care of.

1:00:25Right. So I'd spent the last few years, I mean, first, like making sure my husband was happy, then making sure my children had everything, then making sure my business had everything. And it was actually this time last year, our PR rep, Polly, she runs all of our PR here in the UK for us. she reaches out to me and she says, this publication wants to know your wellness routine. And I wrote back to her and I was like, Polly, I don't have a wellness routine. I like scramble out of bed. I down coffee and I scrambled to get my kids, you know, dressed and ready for school. And then I start working and I barely get to the gym and I don't sleep.

1:01:02And so I thought about this and I was like, why am I doing this to myself? I'm like burning the candle at both ends and I'm not i'm gonna eventually burn out and it's you know just because i haven't burnt out yet doesn't mean that someday it doesn't catch up to me yeah so i started thinking about that and i realized that i needed to feed myself i needed to focus on my own wellness on my own health and be happy otherwise i can't feed all of the other things yeah it starts to i started i was feeling myself being on edge right like yeah my kids would like get in a fight like why are you guys fighting no it happens who's gonna win this vote you know exactly it's on you know be careful don't make a mess yeah exactly exactly it's like a completely different mentality if you're taking care of yourself and what was the first step in that that you made like I filed for a divorce

1:01:54that is the best answer ever

1:02:01the peace that I have felt has been great but but it's but knowing that you're in something and I do think there is something about that that's also liberating right that knowing that you're in something that isn't for you and I think also as women we do that when there's children involved right I've seen friends of mine do it and stay together for the children and my mom was always very you know my mom raised me on her own and I always think one thing that I really am inspired about and my friends say it too with my mom that she because she's from the generation where everybody literally did stay together for the children and it was kind of not the done thing and she was always like I'm not staying in this because I don't I don't want to show them that That became actually the biggest factor for me was I kind of felt like I was in this loveless marriage.

1:02:50We were just roommates at this point. And we kind of didn't like each other, that kind of thing. And so there's like that care that you feel for somebody who becomes family. Of course. But at the same time, you have to almost acknowledge that you really – I think about this all the time for whatever my next relationship is. it's like I don't think I was given the tools and I don't think any of us are given the tools to to recognize that when you find your person you have to constantly make the decision to come back to each other because even after you have kids they're going to eventually not need you the way that they need you right and then it comes back to the two of you again and if you can't see that that continuous cycle right and can't keep coming back to each other both parties right then this isn't this might not work and you're going to be unhappy and you're going to find yourself alone.

1:03:38Like people sometimes tell me they have kids because like, can you imagine being old and alone? Your kids are going to leave you. They are not obligated to take care of you the way that like we used to think back in the day, right? Like they are not obligated to that. They go on. Everyone's got careers and it's the whole thing. They're going to find their own relationships and do their own thing. And they're going to check on you at Christmas. Exactly. And you're going to like pray that they'll do a family vacation with you. You know, that that's going to eventually happen. So you might end up alone anyway.

1:04:04You might be in a marriage that you don't like each other you don't talk to each other and there's nothing lonelier than being stuck somewhere when you a hundred that's like so isolating that when you're not in it and you're supposed to be that's lonelier than actually being exactly on your own exactly and having that kind of freedom yeah so and then you know I started seeing that my kids were seeing that that's what I considered an acceptable relationship yeah and that's not what we're teaching right so that's kind of like you say that then becomes your reason yeah yeah I love that yeah it took me a while though took me years I probably should have divorced earlier but I it took me years of trying to figure this out that was right for you and that was kind of you did it knowing that you're cutting ties ready right so no I think that it was right for you because it was right and in terms of like taking care of yourself now is there like something you do when the weeks are long and the months are hard is there what what is that thing that you do to kind of have that escapism for yourself is it working out is it how does that look it's a little so I started strength training and taking it very seriously so I do that three to four times a week with a trainer um and I try to do little things that I I didn't take care of right I now I get my labs checked regularly I check my hormones I check my vitamin levels what do I need to keep replenishing um what's making me feel tired what's making me feel bad this morning I got an IV you know just to get hydration because I'm traveling so much for the summer and for work so it's just like really making sure that I'm I'm taking care of myself in that way I've been dating that's fun so that's that's been you know it's it's it's you know a lot of people are like oh god after so many years of being with one person is it awful getting back out there no it's so much fun and it turns out the young guys like you too now so it's like I love it when you look like you do sure they're queuing around the block so it's fun do you know what you obviously I didn't know you in your marriage and we've met today for the first time but you you're radiating happiness you really can you can really really see it I'm so glad to hear that I love that for you you can really really tell I want to do our rocket round now which is our quick fire round and we ask each guest the same question and the first one is what do you believe is the non-negotiable for launching a business um I think you have to set your intentions when you are starting that business what is the goal of that business and I don't mean just the 10-year goal or the five-year goal I mean like what's the next month going to look like what's the next six months going to look like what's the next year going to look like the next five years the next 10 years right start forecasting from the get-go and stick with it but be ready to pivot yes yes Yes.

1:06:52What's one piece of advice you'd give someone with a big idea, but no clue where to start? I would say do as much research as possible because somebody else has done it. And so find out how those people did it. Yes. When did you first realize that you were truly launched? Like, like the actual brand? Yeah. I mean, there a moment. I mean, the day, the day we announced it, it was an explosion we sold out of everything it was odd and like how many cut like what are we talking in like volume for the first day I mean we made I think it on day one we did like three or four hundred thousand dollars in revenue wow yeah that'll do in like 12 hours like guys this is work yeah I think we need to keep going someone replenish someone replenish uh what's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed I mean if I'm being really honest I just doom scroll both morning and night yeah a little bit of that meditate in between yeah so it's a so I when I'm trying to be intentional I will get up and I will make sure I pour myself a cup a cup of coffee I love starting with a cup of coffee I think so many people are like oh don't drink coffee on an empty stomach bitch I'm not gonna get up unless I'm drinking some coffee yeah this is now the new me by the way I'm like matcha or coffee depending on which Yeah, no, I've committed to my coffee.

1:08:15I've decided there's nothing wrong with my coffee. I'm not going to let people guilt me out of it. So I'm going to start my day with my coffee. Yeah, we all need a little vice. Yeah, and then at nighttime, you know what? Before I go to bed, I really indulge in my skincare routine. I make sure I do my skincare routine every single night. I do not go to bed without makeup on. I'm with my makeup on. Yes. Do you know what? It's such a simple thing, but you're right. Once you're in that, that becomes a treat for me. Getting in and washing my face. Your kids are sleeping. it's so nice no one's bothering you it's so nice hair up here yeah face clean yeah that is like that's when I know I'm at home it's the best exactly that what is one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listened to I think the advice to try not to make yourself as seen as the founder and let the brand kind of speak on its own there's a little bit of a balance I think now and I just think that that used to be true but nowadays I think that if you are a person who can actually be a public facing face, I guess, facing face.

1:09:15If you can be a founder that actually can present, then you should do that. Everybody has access to TikTok now, right? You can go and start an account and you don't have to have a hundred thousand followers. You can have three followers and a video go viral, right? So if you are starting a brand, go put your face out there. You are the person, people buy from people, right? So you are the person selling your brand and no one's going to sell it as hard as you are so early in in in launching noturium it was like try not to be too much of the face of the brand because it needs to live on its own and that is true but i sell the brand right and so whenever i come forward and i start to talk about the brand people get it of course because we want to hear from you and from the founder and we're seeing so much more of this founder-led content now which i love i'm such a fan of yeah and even things like this you know founders sat here talking on a podcast and telling their story i love it and i kind of like yeah eat all of that but think about it like it's true it has definitely the dial has turned it's yeah in the past you would never know who the founders were you'd be like oh that's the like you'd see an article or something you'd be like that's the founder huh i didn't think that think how interested we were in knowing it which is why i love that we're kind of meeting founders now i think it's brilliant um what's the skill you'd love to learn uh i just bought myself a new piano and a new guitar because I think that I haven't fed my creative side for years.

1:10:36Oh, okay. That's a good bit of escape, isn't it? That's a nice switch off. What's one thing that you wish someone had told you before you started your business? Hmm. That everything you say and do should be intentional with it. And when you put it out there on the internet, everyone is actually paying attention. Yeah. You're so right. You sometimes are in that little world and I think that happens when you're like a creator and you're kind of I don't know a celebrity or in industry that you sometimes forget that actually if you say something it's a little bit throwaway and you might have forgot that you've ever even said it it's like down in cement it's done carved in stone it is done life yeah yeah you're so right what would be the dream collab for your brand dream color collab oh collab um let's see who what would be our dream club I actually read these questions and I kept thinking about that and I still never came up with an answer let's say dream collab it could be like brand on brand or like you know having a different face of to like an ambassador I mean if we had bad bunny promoting the brand I'd be really pumped oh my gosh that would be so cool I love that that is not where I thought this was going I kind of love it I love that he's the moment right now he is he is um and lastly if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present who would that be I was thinking about that one too um you know I think that uh I I actually now find where I'm at in my career, I just love to surround myself with other women who want to accomplish, who are just really mentally resilient, who are self-assured, and who live in the cringe, right?

1:12:34Like when you're around people that have this mentality and are accomplishing, it just keeps inspiring you. Like last night we had a dinner. There's a woman named Cherry who has an organization called, I think it's called the 400 founders club or something like that 400 club and she brings together women who are entrepreneurs and then she gets them involved in sports right so we had this dinner where she invited a bunch of founders last night and i got i sat next to a woman named olamide who is the founder of topical yes yeah oh she's incredible i was at dinner with her incredible and it was like we just kept going i was like are we doing business together she goes absolutely you know like by the end of this conversation you know and then i sat next to another woman named frankie bridge who also just is inspiring and has you know just so many fun stories wait what okay this place is such a small world you met two of us one day after the other I know I know we were in the girl band together for years the Saturdays yeah I love it well are you also a gay icon because I remember the first time I ever posted a story with her in it I had all these DMs from the community and they were just like oh my gosh it's frankie they're kind of desperate for us to get back together there's five of us and we we just haven't it hasn't happened but it's like there's like a campaign anytime any any of us are like seen with each other it's like we think they're getting back together i love what you should i mean i just you don't have that you're like oh gosh to get back in this do you know what no no no i just feel like i can't imagine i know what it takes we did it for so long and frankie and i was talking about it and we were like we love it so much and now like my son is a massive fan too so he's like mommy please do it and i'm like i can't imagine how we would do what we used to do you know like the tours and like that's a whole business and a whole life within itself and we've all got our own different strands now so it would be kind of we struggle to get like a girl's dinner in you know one of those when the group chat's like I can do this day you can do this day I can do so yeah I mean never say never never say never I mean my son is praying praying I've been watching for some reason new kids on the block videos have been popping up and it's like I mean they're way way yeah yeah yeah just like seeing that they're like going on tour again or something and it's like hilarious to me but then you can't help but get so excited about it that nostalgia nostalgia everybody wants the songs that they grew up with I get it I get it but that is so funny that you've met two of us I love that I feel like maybe I was like a long lost member.

1:15:08You never know the reunion when I get my guitar and my exactly you can be on music. Um, at the end of every podcast, I like each guest to leave a tip, almost like a tangible piece of advice to someone that's perhaps in a similar place to you when you started and is kind of, I don't know, at the point where they've had this idea, it's not worked out and they want to embark on something new and they are that startup. What would your advice be to a lady looking to launch? Commit. That's it. It's you commit to it. There's nothing that's going to get in your way. Yeah, there are going to be bumps in the road, but don't let anything get you down.

1:15:56You have to keep going because there is no one else that is going to be as passionate about your brand as you and your company. So if you have doubt in it, it's not going to work. Yes, you're so right. Because it's there, isn't it, for the world and everyone's going to have an opinion. But if the belief is there and you feel so strongly, then you're going to find your people. You're going to find that. It's never going to be, you should never be like, I think it's going to work. I think this is right. This is what I hope for. it's yes this is what I'm doing and this is what it's going to be yeah and this is how big it's going to be and lastly I we talk about ladies looking to launch I'm also obsessed with ladies who lunch yeah so what does a typical lunch hour look like for you I mean okay is there such thing well yeah I mean it's like wow let's be honest I like order something from from this is what I want to know where are you what are you eating it's like I'm ordering well in Miami if I'm in Miami.

1:16:54I'm going to order from a place called Pura Vida. And it's like all really healthy. So I'll get like a like a salmon bowl or something or like a Caesar salad, something. I'm always focused on like my protein, getting a little bit of my fiber and getting a little bit of my veggies in. And then if I'm in New York, let's see, I'm trying to think of the cities I spend the most time in. We have offices in New York, in LA and in London. And so I am in New York. What is one of my go-to I mean, shoot, I'm just like usually ordering like a protein shake. I'm all about my protein and my creatine. Yeah, but that's good though.

1:17:28That's good. Protein and creatine. Sometimes there's some time, right? And then you just look at dinner when you get in and you're with the kids. Yeah, yeah. I, you know, this is something I heard from Howard Stern. Right. Is that he eats the same thing every single damn day just because he doesn't want to use his mental capacity. He doesn't want to think about it. And I kind of am the same. I am like, when people are like, where do you want to go eat? I'm like, unless it's going to be a nice dinner that we're going on or a date or something. it's like I don't really want to think too hard just as long as it it's going to serve its purpose Emma Greene said the same thing she was like I don't make any decisions on the small stuff like she like her assistant will which you know obviously is a privilege for that to happen will order the same food and she knows what she just doesn't what she's not saying is the assistant knows better what to get she's been yelled at a few times she has like molded this assistant and if you're in London what do you eat what's your go-to in London?

1:18:18My go-to in London. You know, here I feel like you have the best Middle Eastern and South Asian food. So I will always try to get at least some some kebabs in and and some Indian food. Oh, I love that. Always. Okay. Even if it's just like hitting Dishoom, which is like more typical, but like at Hoppers. Hoppers is one of my favorite places to eat. Why have you been there and I've never been there? You need to go to Hoppers. It's amazing. Has anyone else been to Hoppers? yeah hoppers is great yes everyone else yeah yeah oh no it's delicious okay i'm really i actually this is this is as a non-indian so i apologize to all the all the south asian people watching um i believe the best indian food is in london not in india do you know what but if you're if you live in the uk people might actually go one step further and say it's in birmingham oh really well then i guess i need to go to the indian food the restaurants in birmingham that And I learnt this when we were touring in the group and in the band and that would be our thing.

1:19:20We would go to the best curry house of your life. I'm going to hop on a train today. There you go. You had it first. Thank you so much. Thank you. I absolutely love talking to you and it's so nice to get to know you and hear your success and your intent and you doing what you set out to do is so, so inspiring and being so true to form, true to your word. And it's honestly, it's so, so nice to see. So congratulations. Thank you. Very nice to meet you. I love chatting with you. Thank you.

1:19:56Don't forget to follow us on Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure that you don't miss out. Because next time I'm going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched. If like me, you're a watcher, then please follow us on YouTube and don't forget to like and subscribe.

1:20:14Thank you.