Ep 55: How The Elf on the Shelf Became a Global Empire, with Co-Founder Christa Pitts

0:12Today I'm joined by Krista Pitts, co-founder of The Elf on the Shelf and the woman who alongside side with her twin sister turned a cherished family tradition into a global Christmas phenomenon. This year celebrates two decades since the families first invited the Elf on the Shelf into other families' homes and with 31 million Elves now part of the tradition, their creation has become something truly remarkable. So let's find out why she's a lady who launched. I'm so pleased that you are here today I'm so pleased we made this happen it's so timely this is probably the most when we record we normally do it months out and when I heard that you were going to be in town and your team wrote to us and said can we make this conversation happen I was like yes and my team needs to turn this room around quickly because this has to happen over Christmas there's no other time of year that we could have done this um so i'm so so so pleased that you're here i i always start these conversations in the same way and that's sort of going way back when but this feels particularly relevant for our conversation today because elf on the shelf being the the kind of empire that it is but also the it's a it's a strange one for me to talk about this in in business terms because what you've what you've managed to achieve is absolutely incredible but for me it's the magic and it's kind of the sentiment behind the whole thing it's just it's like no other so I'm so so excited that we're getting to talk about this can you start by sort of talking me through your childhood who were you way back then way back when yeah so I'm a twin I have a twin sister and we have a younger brother.

2:03And when we were born, as the story goes, our elf from my mother's childhood came with her into her starting her own family. And that elf's name, we named Fisbee. No one knows where the name came from, but Fisbee is the official name of our Abersold family elf. And so So as we started to begin the holiday season, our elf would arrive. And myself and my sister and later on my younger brother, we would race each other out of bed to go find our elf. Because as my mom had shared, the elf was going to work for Santa. And it would arrive on Thanksgiving Day in our home. But it comes at different times.

2:48Sometimes it's when people put up the Christmas tree. Sometimes it's December 1st. So it really does depend on your family. Your own tradition. Yes, it's yours. Yeah. So ours would come on Thanksgiving morning. We'd race out of bed to go find it. And as my mom had shared, it worked for Santa. And it would tell Santa what had happened in the house that day. And then the next morning, it would be in a new spot in its house, a perch, so that it could watch and report for the next night. And there were a few rules in the home. The first one is that you couldn't touch the elf or it would lose its magic.

3:24and then the second one was that the elf is watching and listening that's the job from Santa so they're not allowed to talk to you it's so good it's and was this something that your that your mom obviously this is the tradition that your mom gave to you guys but did did her parents do the same so as she shared the story they had Fisbee in their home but it was the Christmas tree. And my grandmother one day when she and her brother were up to no good said, you guys better cut that out because that elf right there works for Santa and he's going to tell Santa what you're up to. And that's really the seed of where it started and then evolved in our own home growing up.

4:07Just honestly, it's just so, and I mean, you can see my face beaming. I am Mrs. Christmas. I love Christmas magic and I'm like, long may it continue. This is like what I live for all year to get to this season honestly um so this is sort of uh for you a real tradition and what you have done is obviously be so generous with sharing that tradition with so many of us I mean I say generous there are times when I lay in bed and I think okay I love and hate you right now it's quite a bit when it gets to like half 11 and like babe Did you? Is that? No. OK, here we go. What can we do? Yes. Yes. Yeah, I hear that all the time.

4:55And what's fun is that my mom and my sister actually wrote what would become the elf on the shelf. Yes. And in the book, it's very clear that the one big thing is that the elf flies to Santa and will hide in a new spot in your home. But it is as easy or as difficult or as playful as your elf's imagination. so we always tell people that it takes on the the personality of the family that adopts it so if your family is uber creative constantly on the go full of ideas your elf will probably be the same and if your elf is a little more laid back like the family that's okay too sometimes they have a favorite spot in the house they like to sit and perch right and kids might think they didn't fly back to santa but not the case it's just their favorite spot on the couch Do you know what?

5:46That is a very good point. And I'm taking that. I've got you. From the boss lady herself. Obviously, this is a tradition. This is something that is so ingrained in the DNA of your family. But how does that kind of spark of an idea happen for you and for your sister? How does it sort of go beyond being in the four walls of your home? and I suppose the tradition that you might share with friends and, you know, other family members. What was that sort of first seed of an idea where you thought, do you know what, this is more than our Heim and our family? Yeah, so I think it was an iterative process.

6:29My mom had gotten to that place where all the kids were grown. They'd moved out of the house, kind of this active mom. And mom, and I think there are probably a lot of parents that feel that way when it's a new chapter. We're talking about that empty nest, don't we? Yeah. I mean, what are you going to do with your time? What is it going to look like? And just being down in the dumps a bit about it. And my sister was over at my parents' house, and she looks up, and she sees our elf literally on a shelf. And she said, Mom, why don't we write a book about the elf? and mom at the time was again it was a very kind of blah period and she said nobody wants to see a book from random people and then she was like you know what all right let's do it and so she and Shanda that night started crafting what would become the elf on the shelf.

7:21I mean it's clear to see that the house is full of magic and creative ideas so I can imagine for you guys and for your sister and for your mum that the book probably wrote itself because I'm sure that was so so exciting and what a special a special bond to have together but in terms of writing a book did you have any experience as a family of as to how the world then sees that how this book's going to get published whether you're going to do that yourself or did you have any experience in that field? No none my mom was an educator early on in her career and then became a stay-at-home mom for us.

7:58My sister was a middle grades English teacher. I had a job as a program host on QVC for many years. So I probably had the most of the business background. That being said, we knew we had something special we grew up with, but there was no business plan per se. and they did manage mom and shanda wrote a proposal and got a literary agent which was basically magic happening on its own and that agent took it to all the publishers big small independence and no one wanted it wow that's so interesting yeah and what do you think because for me it's i mean it comes back around every year it's if you're thinking you're if you're putting your sort of business cap on like you look at mariah carey you look at michael buble i'm sure if you sort of put did the numbers for the records that they sell and the royalties that come in christmas is a huge part of their of their business proposition right yeah yeah so it's kind of interesting to me that would be a hard sell yeah i mean no they told us that we weren't famous And so that was not in our favor.

9:14They said, maybe you should write it as a narrative. We heard children don't really like rhyming books anymore, as if that was passé somehow. And then our favorite was we actually received a letter from a group of experts. And at the time, it was made up of executives from the major book chains, the major distribution houses. so if anyone in publishing was going to give you their blessing, this was the group. Right. And they wrote us and said it was destined for the damaged goods bin. Hang on a minute. Yeah. What? Yes. They wrote us and said this is destined for the damaged goods bin. Oh. And first of all, who even writes an email of that kind of – Isn't it terrible?

10:00It's so aggressive. So aggressive. Goodness me. Oh, my gosh. There's no sweeter – there's no sweeter tea to drink than when you have the success you do receiving emails like that. So as you just said yourself, this is such a big group, a group that you would want on side, a group that could sort of really turn that dial. What was it about you guys that sort of stuck with that idea? Because that would make, that would sort of floor a lot of people. Did it for a second? No. I love that. My sister is the most tenacious person you will ever meet. She's uber creative and she's incredibly tenacious.

10:42And we knew what we had because we'd experienced it as children. Yes. And my mom had the advantage of experiencing it as a parent. So together there was this magical formula about we don't care what other people say. We're going to continue putting this out. And so we started doing the research about self-publishing. And to this day, what shocks everyone is the entire world of what we call the Santaverse and the Elf on the Shelf is still owned, published and created by us. That's actually given me the chills. Oh, thanks. Like when you hear the story and the kind of, because there would be, and you know, we actually discuss it a lot on this podcast, when something feels so right to you, but nobody's getting it.

11:31The kind of, the puzzle, the last piece of the puzzle isn't there and you feel so passionate about it. But it can, that can really sort of derail it for a lot of people at that point where they're like, am I delusional? Do I have the right idea? You could have thought, is this just something that our family love? Is this going to transcend beyond us? Is this just a thing that nobody else is going to get and isn't going to connect? But I love that you stayed strong in knowing that, no, this magic is to be shared. Yeah, it was. And so it really is, okay, you had a good idea and it didn't work out.

12:11Or you find a way to make it work. Yeah. And for us, that meant, okay, the book channel doesn't get this. How else can we approach this business? And so once we were able to figure out how to even get a book and an elf from Santa Claus made and pulled together, our first order was just 5 ,000 pieces. And it was the minimum order you could place. Still a lot, though, when you're starting out. I remember ordering something for the first time being like, I don't think I need 5 ,000. That's a scary kind of, they call it an MIQ, don't they? But it is like the idea of that. I'm like, 5 ,000? And you're putting money to that?

12:56Who kind of took the reins when it come to that? Because obviously you're putting two things together. There's the kind of product side, but there's also that publishing part two. so who kind of put that idea together and how did that look yeah actually it was my sister she is really great at research and the internet wasn't necessarily what it is today and so she started researching paper pantone colors paperweights how do you self-publish looked up trade shows that had the publishing industry there where you can source that kind of stuff and ultimately was able to get enough people who knew something about the industry to then help us design the box set which was done with a stationary set in mind where you had stationary on one side and envelopes on the other the idea was why couldn't an elf from santa live on one side and on the opposite side would be our stationary which was the book wow gosh that's so incredible.

14:05So tell us about that first order. How did that look? What did it mean to you to press go on an order of 5 ,000? When you've signed it off, you've got to where you want to be. What was that moment like? Well, it was extremely risky, as you said. So I sold my home and put the proceeds into the company. Wow. My sister took out credit card debt. And as I mentioned, she had been a school teacher, so was her husband. So the money there was scarce. And our parents put some money from their retirement in, and that's how we got started. And so then I believe it really became about we can't fail. Yes. We can't fail.

14:47It doesn't matter what happens. We've got to find a way to sell through these units so that all of us can continue for the next year and see what that's going to look like. And so while it was scary, you become so focused on just getting it here and what are you going to do to launch it? How are you going to express this thing you've put together to the world that other people won't understand? And there wasn't anything like this. We truly started a completely new genre within the literary world because it's a tradition in a box. Yeah. People don't sell traditions in a box. Yeah. And so that was something brand new.

15:30And then that caused us to strategically change our focus from the book channel to gifting. Right. Right. Gift channel, the boutique stores, people who were going to talk to customers when they walked in the door and say, oh, you're looking for something special for Christmas? You've got to see this. You've got to check this out. And that was a piece of our magic formula when we started. Often people think, I just need to get into some major box store and that will be my ticket. But what they don't realize is if you haven't built your fandom and you haven't built the infrastructure to support what that takes, you could actually be destroying something before it even starts.

16:13Yes. Yes. Instead of building something slowly, being patient, look to your hometown to support you. Look very local to start. That's what we did. We went to local holiday markets and told people one by one what this thing was and how it worked. It's like that education piece, like you say. And I think when you like go back to what you touched on earlier, these big publishing houses saying this is, what was it? Damaged goods. I'm still not over that. Destined for the damaged goods. I'm still angry about that. But when you look at that, it's almost like they weren't ready for something because you are, you've created a different category.

16:50That category didn't exist and they just didn't understand it, right? And it allowed us to be very flexible because if you're working with larger retailers, right, there's the entertainment buyer or there's a seasonal buyer or there's toys or there's gift. So you have to start thinking, I'm not just this one thing. I can be any of these things. Who believes in what we're doing? Who can I build a relationship with that will give us a chance? Yes. And then it's up to you to create the interest and the buzz. But it starts with getting a buyer to believe in what you're doing. And how quickly did it sort of click to you?

17:30How quickly did you notice that the kind of because like you say, you've had that moment where you're reaching out. No one's getting it. You're now going on your own. And then I suppose you're looking at Christmas markets. You're looking at those boutique retailers. how quickly did those kind of meetings go when you're sitting down saying we've got something to show you we think this will be great in your store did it connect quite instantly not until word of mouth started to build which is what we knew was going to happen if you use this in your home and you see the joy on your kids faces you're going to tell your friends about it you're going to talk to other people in your neighborhood kids are going to talk to each other at school.

18:09So that was part of our formula. But we deliberately kept it small on purpose, just because we didn't have the infrastructure at that point. And then in 2007, we'd grown from about 20 retailers in year one to roughly 200. And then by the time the Christmas season of 2007 rolled around, Jennifer Garner, the actress, was photographed carrying it down the streets of New York City by the paparazzi. No one knows how she got it. We still don't know this day. It's still a mystery. Still a mystery. And she was holding it like this. The box set, which is right here, like the box set was like front and center.

18:52And my phone started ringing because at that point there were blogs about what celebrities are doing, what they had for the holidays. And so people were calling our offices and asking us what this was. And then in America, we have a very popular morning show called The Today Show. Yes. Very, very popular. And just two weeks after that, one company that we were selling to in Texas had contacted their local station and said, you will not believe what is happening here. This thing is a phenomenon. on and so they did a story on it that they picked up on the today show and that weekend was explosive for us they ran a package on us that we weren't expecting and um it was game-changing oh my god like and so organic like you know this is a sort of when you're telling this this sounds like there was kind of a boardroom of marketing execs around a table planning a strategy as to how we can appear on the today show right it's kind of that is like priceless exposure and we don't even know exactly that which is just kind of like destined and just kind of a credit to what you've built and how how organic and authentic it is at that point how did the team look and how easy was it for you to be reactive to be able to fulfill all of I suppose the demand that comes with that kind of exposure so at the time we had one full-time employee oh my gosh one and he worked in the warehouse and he was phenomenal he was like guys I need a holiday yes and I called him because of course it was a Saturday and we were already I mean you're always in the office.

20:41And I was on my way in and he picked up the phone and said, what happened? And I said, apparently we were on the Today Show and he is like, I'm ready. I'm here. But I walk in about 20 minutes later, every phone line that we had was lit up. And he's, thank you for calling the elf on the shelf. Please hold. Thank you for calling the elf on the shelf. Please hold. And all the lines are lit up and everything's on hold. And we had about 130 voicemail messages within about 30 minutes. And Amazon was not sophisticated at that point in time. They didn't have a system that would allow us to catalog who had placed the order at what time.

21:22They shut us down on our website because they thought there was fraud. It was incredible. And this is why I always say, when someone offers to help you and they say, hey, listen, if you ever need help with whatever it is you're doing, give me a call. That's what we did. We called everyone who'd ever offered to help. They threw on their sweatshirts and their hair up in ponytails and they came in. And during that weekend, we got out every single order. But it was insanity. And at that point, are you still, have you sold through that first order that you pressed go on? We did. Yes. I mean, how incredible is that?

21:58That feeling to know that you're on to the next. and you're obviously the demand like you say that weekend you're kind of like rent a friend anyone hands on deck at that point did you have sort of a family meeting whereby you go okay we might need to look at how this team looks and roles and responsibilities yes but again we didn't have any money you know we were taking the money that we were earning yeah this Christmas season and that was going to pay for next Christmas season. So you have really limited resources. You have to be creative. You have to be scrappy. You have to understand that you're going to have to learn roles that you have no expertise in.

22:47But if you dig in hard enough and you start doing the research and that's what we were doing, like, all right, this is a compliance manual. I'm going to sit down and read it. I'm going to make notes. I'm going to highlight everything that I need to know. and I'm going to figure out how to fulfill an order for Barnes & Noble. Yeah, wow. I mean, and like you say that actually because, of course, you've already got these orders that you've placed and this stock that you're sat on until it sells through and, of course, knowing that it's seasonal. Yeah. So you make such a valid point. This now is going to see us through to next Christmas and then we go again with the hope that it's bigger and there's more attention then.

23:29But of course, you kind of, that side of your world, I suppose, stops, right? Yeah, and it certainly did back then. So the seasonal part of what we were doing made it even more difficult. Right. But we said no more than we said yes. And that was very deliberate because we didn't have the cash to handle large customers. So I remember one of our first big customers, and I said to them, if you want to work with us, you're going to have to pay us up front. And that's unheard of in major markets. And I happened to have an executive that believed that what we were doing was going to be game-changing for them.

24:11And she went to her executive team and basically said, listen, I believe in this. It's huge. We're going to support them. And so they gave us a down payment that allowed us to have that cash flow to be able to handle the business. Yeah, of course, because that is that is always for so many sort of startups. That is that's the problem, having the opportunity, but not having having a small team and not having the cash flow to be able to sort of grab all those opportunities with both hands. Did you at any point in that sort of period of time think about taking on investment? Yes, but no one that we had spoken to actually got what we did.

24:53And they certainly didn't see it as a business. They thought these family people who are not sophisticated, their mistake. Really, like, it just wasn't something the business world was ready for, as so many successful things have been over time. You know, no one in the hosiery world thought Sarah Blakely was smart, who was Spanx at the time, right? So I think it's one of those things where we knew people weren't getting it. A lot of people were telling us what they thought it should be or why didn't you guys do something that was newfangled or it should have batteries in it and it should do this and it should do that.

25:36And we knew how we had experienced it. And so we really wanted to stay true to that. and we did but there's so many stories along the way where it was easy to have thrown in the towel or that you're just like did we is this happening like we went to a corporate barnes and noble meeting in new york city the first one we had and it was raining and we didn't have much money and there were no cabs to be found so we took a rickshaw to our meeting at barnes and noble we have a picture of it's like raining it's like soaked um but you know I think that's the entrepreneurial journey and you don't know what you don't know until you dive in and you're so right what you're trying to sort of sell in is is a tradition in a box it's an experience it's those who get it get it so you just might be having a meeting with the wrong person exactly And I suppose that must have happened to you time and time again.

26:38Endless, endless times in which it happened. But then, you know, you work your connections. You see what other buyers are out there. You keep working through people that you know or reaching out. And eventually you're going to connect with, I don't know, maybe it's a higher spirit that guides those things. But if you don't give up, eventually you're going to find a path. and that is critical for any entrepreneur if we took no for an answer we certainly wouldn't be sitting here yes today yes you're so right and it is that ability to the skill set is have the ability to figure it out and it just is and that kind of like you say with your sister that tenacity to keep at it and to keep on going was there a particular point where you kind of thought okay like you say you're getting these Barnes and Noble meetings it's you know this press that's happening at what point did it really feel like okay this is now manageable as in from the back end perspective and this really has connected and also it's becoming something was becoming that tradition for everybody else that it was for us.

27:56Was there a moment that that kind of really sort of clicked for you? I think it was very pivotal for us to start putting out content. Because if you look across the spectrum of what do people love to do at Christmas, they love to sit down with their family and watch their favorite Christmas movies or Christmas specials. For us, it was Rankin Bass, right? Rudolph and Frosty and this idea of the Grinch that was back from our childhood. And to us, those were the iconic characters of Christmas beyond Santa Claus. And so we knew we needed to start thinking about specials, Christmas specials. So we sat down and with a group of friends, we formed our own production company and we wrote and funded and produced with all of our profits the first of our Christmas specials called An Elf Story.

28:54And then I sold it into CBS. Gosh. And it aired near Grinch. Oh, my what? I remember that being just this huge moment for us. And it allowed for other things. It allowed for us to move into, at the time, Target as a major mass retail partner for us. Goodness me. And also it secured our balloon in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, which now was going to elevate our character, the Elf on the Shelf, to other iconic brands that had been in the parade, like Snoopy or, you know, this year they had Shrek. I mean, these are major, major characters. And so for me, I think when we reached that point, at least in the United States, it felt like, OK, we are starting to cement ourselves alongside Santa.

29:47Yeah, you're in that conversation. You think of Christmas, you think of you guys. And that's kind of, yeah, that is a real pinch me moment, isn't it? Everybody has their own family traditions at Christmas. You realize that when you're talking to your friends and how differently everybody does everything. But to see that kind of, I mean, you see it all over social media. And for everybody to have synergy when it comes to like having an elf on the shelf, having a tree, it's like it's in the same conversation, which is just honestly, it's incredible. And I'm just reading numbers here. Fast forward to now.

30:22This Christmas marks 20 years of the elf on the shelf, which is wild. The numbers are insane. More than 31. million scout elves, elf pets and elf mates have been adopted worldwide and you're in 29 countries across six continents. I think it's fair to say it's worked. Very true. Thus far, we have been blessed. I mean, it's just, and how does it make you feel like when you, when you look at that and not just, it's kind of, this is like such an anomaly because it's not just a business. It's such an experience and it's something that you hold so dear to you and your family. How does it make you feel knowing that there was sort of, well, no belief on the outside apart from you guys and you kind of held that as a family, but knowing that you've achieved what you have, how does that make you feel?

31:23Blessed. Blessed. I mean, there's a lot of hard work and a lot of grit and a lot of moments that it could have failed. I think having a legacy, though, is what my mom always wanted. One that was truly based in the love of the Christmas season. You've already shared how much you love it. And that was always our family. We didn't have much money, but my parents made Christmas magical. I mean, we would go cut down pine trees and lash them together. That was our Christmas trees back then. So it's a really special thing to know that millions and millions of children around the globe are now celebrating a piece of my family's legacy.

32:16And that stands out for sure. And we get to be part of so many fun things. I don't have to go to work. I get to go to work. I work for Santa. We all work for Santa. I mean, it's the best job on the planet. Oh, my gosh. If you ever need anyone, if you're ever recruiting, I'm here. I want to do our rocket round with you now. Oh, let's do it. Which I ask each guest the same eight questions. And it's essentially a quick fire round. Okay. Okay. So the first one is, what do you believe are the non-negotiables for launching a business? know what makes your idea different from everyone else how are you differentiating yourself from what's out there yes nice what was the moment that you first realized that you truly launched

33:10probably the macy's thanksgiving day parade i would think absolutely yeah what is the first thing that you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed the first thing i do when i wake up is check my phone brush my teeth and head to the gym the first thing or when i'm going to bed i do a crossword puzzle oh i love that we've never had that answer before yeah incredible um what's one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listen to i believe everything that you do teaches you in some way so i think probably i would go with

33:58um oh i don't know well if we're if we reflect back on this conversation i would say your skill set is that you didn't listen to advice that you were given. But that doesn't mean I don't seek wise counsel. No, no, no. But I mean, that's the beauty of it is that you there were times where you could have listened. And that would have meant that you aren't where you are now. Yeah. So no, I just believe it truly in my heart, even if it's rough, and it's terrible, it teaches you something new about yourself, about your business, about what you might need. Yes. So there's plenty of bad things that have happened or things people have said that we maybe did but it just ended up getting us where we are today.

34:43It's all a lesson you're so right you're so right. What's a skill that you'd love to learn? Speaking a foreign language fluently. Oh nice what is one thing that you wish someone had told you before you started?

35:01you're going to make a lot of mistakes but you're going to learn a lot along the way and always sign your own checks oh very good very very good um what would be the dream collab for the elf on the shelf taylor swift taylor swift times eots with santa's blessing that Yes. Add a bit more sparkle. Add a little more sparkle. I love that. If you could choose one female figure as a mentor, past or present, who would that be? Eleanor Roosevelt. I'm a big fan of a quote she once said, which is, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. That is everything. Yeah. And I think about that a lot because there are so many women in business now who are just doing amazing things and who have chased their dreams and they're reaching them.

35:54But if you listened to the naysayers, it's on you. I love that. You're so right. That's beautiful. I ask each guest at the end of every episode to leave a tip, like sort of one piece of tangible advice for a lady looking to launch. someone maybe that's sort of thinking of following your footsteps in a similar vein or you know wanting to sort of getting through a lot of publishing or the gifting space if there could be sort of one piece of advice that you'd give to someone listening right now what would that be? First of all an idea is not a business too often I have people stop me and say I have this idea.

36:39Well, first and foremost, if it has to do with what I do for a living, I can't even listen to you because legally I don't need to hear anything that you have to say. And an idea is simply that we have over 6 ,000 every single day. Some of them are mundane, some of them are important, but it's the ones that stick with you that matter. So then after you have the idea, write it down, put it on a piece of paper and force yourself to make it real. Wow. Yes. And then you can build upon that as you start looking at what ultimately your vision might be for something, how you would differentiate yourself from everyone else that's out there.

37:21That's the first thing you need to do is make it real and separate it from just general ideation into something tangible. Yes. It's the idea that won't leave you. Yeah. You're right. The one that keeps coming back and you keep thinking about how your thing is going to be different or change something or it solves a problem what is that and then focus on building a business or a brand around it love it that is brilliant advice and then lastly I ask everyone this question um we talk about ladies who launch but when it comes to ladies who lunch I know in your office you work for Santa. How do you spend your lunch break and your lunch hour?

38:02And what are you eating? I imagine it's like mince pies and Christmas pudding. But what are you eating over lunch? Well, we're usually hunkered down in a meeting or on the computer as we're, you know, shoveling it in. It's very rare to get an actual lunch. However, I'm fascinated by the mince pie conversation. Everyone I've talked to has a different way they serve it. There's like bourbon butter yeah yeah yeah a brandy butter yeah brandy butter yeah you can heat them up slightly that's what i'm hearing there's actually a shop along here that i'm going to get you to call past on your way out really the mince pies are the best do they sell them your round or only during the festive season time but i'm like a bulk buyer oh this is so great but these ones are like fresh so they only last a couple of days so you need to get them honestly they're incredible oh it sounds so good so there we go i would love it today it's going to be mince pies just for me just for me.

38:56Thank you so much. It's been so incredible to talk to you. What you've achieved is nothing short of exceptional. And I say thank you. It were two halves of me. Thank you for like blessing us with your family tradition, but also at like midnight tonight, I will be that mum that's like, quick, where's the elf? So for that, I hate you slightly. That's all right. It happens everywhere I go, but it's a blessing that our legacy lives on with your family. It's just incredible. Thank you so much. You bet.

39:37I am feeling very Christmassy after that episode. How incredible was she? Guys, we are taking a break for the festive period, but we'll be back on the 1st of January for a very special episode. it's a Thursday not a Wednesday but it didn't feel right not to mark our very first birthday so all that's left to say is have a very merry Christmas and I will see you in the new year