Ep 57: Iskra Lawrence: Why I Quit Modelling to Build Saltair

0:12Iskra Lawrence: Hi guys, I'm Rachelle Humes and this is Ladies Who Launch. Each episode will dive into the journeys of aspirational women who started from scratch and built their dreams into thriving empires. These are the founders, the risk takers, the go-getters that are changing the landscape and making their mark in the world of business. We're here to celebrate their wins, dive into their challenges and share the invaluable lessons they've learned along the way. Ladies Who Launch is about sharing the inspiring stories that could empower you to take your own leap. So get ready to be uplifted by the resilience, creativity and unstoppable determination of today's most extraordinary women.

0:51Iskra Lawrence: This is your Girls Group Chat for business and beyond.

1:00Iskra Lawrence: My guest today grew up in East London, attended London College of Fashion and eventually dropped out. She then started working within retail stores and assisting stylists before starting her own talent management and marketing agency. Now, fast forward to 2024, she is running billion dollar empires such as Good American and Skims. And the thing that I love about her the most, she is the ultimate girls girl in the world of business, which is why she had to be my first guest on Ladies Who Launch. Please welcome to the podcast, Emma Greed. I'm so excited that you're here. You and me both, babe. I'm so excited that you're here, that you're in London, that I mean, slightly disappointed I didn't fly to LA because I would have done sorry babe I was like issues free I don't mind flying to LA we don't have to ram her days in London I'm happy I'm happy to make the trip I'm sorry I'm here when I was putting this together you know I always have like little vision boards and little lists and I'm like who is my dream guest genuinely you know I'm not guessing you Emma Greed top of the list the team were like oh no she'd be perfect do you think she'd do it oh I don't know I'll put the feelers out and see if she says yes and here you are.

2:16So thank you so much.

2:18Iskra Lawrence: I've got so much I want to talk to you about. I love everything that you embody in terms of business, in terms of women, in terms of being the ultimate girls girl, because I think that just reads so much. When I think of you, and I've been to one of your dinners, and I know how you just want to connect women. And this is what this is all about. So I'm so pleased you're here. I feel like the way that we are in business and the way that we conduct ourselves in the workspace has to come from somewhere. Like when I see a confident, strong, successful woman, which is everything that you ask, what you seem to ask, you seem very confident, you seem very strong.

2:56Iskra Lawrence: I think it has to start from somewhere. So what is it, do you think, about the East London girly that was raised by her mum? What do you think your roots, how do you think that shaped you in business? You know, I think that's such a perfect place to start because honestly, I always think about my East London background as such a prevalent part of what made me who I am. I mean, first of all, one second, Michelle, because this is so crazy. I'm so excited and happy that we're doing this and that you are doing this because I think you're such a perfect person to like have this type of podcast and bring this type of message to people.

3:34So of course, when I got the request, I was like, 100 % I'm doing that, like for you and with you, because I honestly think it's so, so needed. So that's the first thing to say. But going back to your question, which is really about my upbringing, I always think of myself, and because I live in America now, you know, people always say, oh, are you British? And I'm like, oh yeah, absolutely. But I'm an East Londoner. And I'm an East Londoner. And there's a difference. There's a big difference. There's a big distinction in it because I think where I grew up, it has so many kind of, there were so many formative values that inform like who I actually am and how I do business today, right?

4:09So when we talk about business and we talk about culture, the culture and the way that I was brought up has really informed the way that I run my company, what I do, how I behave, how I want to think about my legacy and my future and all of that. And I think it's really just stems from this idea of like being really honest, people being able to rely on you and you thinking about more than just yourself. Right. This idea of like your community where I grew up, you were an East Londoner. It's like you're a reflection of your neighbour, you're a reflection of all the people around you. You had to be good for your mum, good for your nan, good for the whole thing.

4:44And so I really think about that in everything I do. And it is an honestly extremely important part of me. It really is.

4:53Iskra Lawrence: And I really think those values shine when you're a leader, when it's that loyalty. And when I think of East London, I was born in Barking, grew up in Essex. I've got that East in me and I think that your word is your word. A hundred percent. And has that stayed with you? Is that something you just can't shake? Yeah. You know what? And I think it's a really good thing not to shake because it's like, where does that show up in your kind of everyday, right? It means that if you say something to someone, if you bring someone into your organisation, doesn't matter if it's a team member, if it's a vendor, if you're trying to, you know, recruit someone into the business, like what you say is what you're going to do.

5:32And for me, it's like, I don't need to go through some big procurement or contractual process to get down to the point of like, I said, I'm going to do this and therefore I need to do it. And actually that stuff follows you. And when we think about business, so much of it is about your reputation, right? What is the expectation of what you're delivering, whether it's in your product, whether it's in your marketing, whether it's in your team, all of that makes such a difference. And so actually it's just, it's a really important value and it's a really important thing to live by.

6:01Iskra Lawrence: And growing up, did you have an idol? Did you have somebody that was around you? I really see it as my mum, because my mum always taught me, like, you know, shy kids don't get no sweets. If you don't ask, you're not going to get. You're not going to get love. And that is the reality of it, right? Did you have any entrepreneurs around you? Like, where does that kind of, like, trailblazer come from? Not a sausage, babe. Nothing, no one. You know, it's really funny. I don't actually even think I knew anyone who owned a business. like not a legitimate legal one. Not what we're allowed to talk about.

6:34Not that we're going to talk about today. But that's the honest truth. You know, I grew up with that sense of entrepreneurialism in the sense that it was like, you know, you've got to do something to get something. You've got to put the hard work in. You have to graft. But there certainly wasn't anyone who was like a role model to me. But as usual in my life, it's like I will find the people. And in my head, and you're going to think I'm so nuts, but, you know, when I used to come home from school, Oprah was on every single day. And so in my head, I like, like formed her as this person that was like in my life.

7:06And so like from honestly, and I have like things from when I was like 11 or 12, like diaries that I wrote where I was like keeping a gratitude journal without even knowing it was like, say the things you're thankful for. And so I, in my mind, had kind of made this like fantasy woman, like my idea of like, this is what an idol looks like. This is someone who's a baller. This is someone who's like so successful. And so I had that. I mean, I still have it to this day. I mean, Oprah is my number one in the world. But it's funny because I think it's really important when you try to like, I didn't understand it then, but that was like early manifestations, right?

7:43And I seriously believe. You didn't have the label then, did you? We certainly didn't have the label then. But now I know that it's like, I gave myself, I gold myself with that level of exceptionalism, right? Being excellent at something, being the best and more than that, trying really, really hard to do it. And so it wasn't, you know, I think because I'm not naturally that good at anything, I tried hard at everything. And so it's just one of those parts of my personality that was like, again, it kind of formed really early without me understanding what it was. And no one's going to outwork you in the road.

8:16Iskra Lawrence: I think that's what I always try and tell my kids, like you might not be the best singer, you might not be the best at gymnastics, you know, your cartwheel might not be A1. But listen, if you've got that graft in you and that's you know that is such a quality that I think people take for granted you know if you turn up early and you know you're the last one to leave and you're going to work hard you'll you know you'll be the best at the cartwheel in the class. Listen 100 % and not just that but it's the graft and then it's coupled with this resilience right so I think what I have is like an incredibly thick skin and so I think that I'm not really defined by all the things that I've done well or that I've won I'm actually defined by my losses because I've done so many things that haven't worked out, so many things that actually have been an absolute dud.

8:58But I never took that as like, I don't deserve to be in this space. This is not for me. It's like, I just was like, I'm just going to keep trying. And I actually think when we think about what makes people successful, it's this idea of resilience is, it's really, really key. You have to understand that you are going to fail. If you're not failing, you're not trying hard enough. but in my head it's like I never really look at it as like that's a knock on me I'm just like that's just another thing that I've been through it's a lesson it's a it's a lesson and they do

9:29Iskra Lawrence: end up being amazing lessons if you can take it that way we fast forward to today right we know what you're known for the empires that you run and it's I mean it's no mean feat we're talking good American powerhouse we're talking skims we're talking safely the list goes on

9:49Iskra Lawrence: I know that you are somebody's first call if somebody has an idea they're going to be like right get Emma on the phone we need to make this work I'm so interested to know who's your first call oh that's a great question you know it's going to sound like a bit of a dud but it's probably my husband because you know we have been business partners for a long time and before my husband was my business partner I worked for him and so I effectively you know back in the day before we were together, I pitched him as an investor. And so... He was your investor before he was your partner, before he was your husband.

10:20Yeah, babe. Talk about job security. There you go. I went fully in. No, you know what? It's actually interesting because I think, you know, a lot of people find it difficult to understand how you would even work with your husband. For me... I work with mine. Well, this is it. Like, you know, but, you know, I was with Jens in, like, professionally before we were ever together. And so we had a pretty defined way of working together before we had, like, a romantic relationship. But when I think about, you know, whose opinion can I trust 100%, who's going to give it to me straight? And who have I actually had a lot of success with?

10:53It would probably be him. Now, I do think a lot about this idea of like networks and networking, right? I really strongly believe that, you know, men happen to be extremely good at building networks, right? Building networks to get shit done. which is very different from how women traditionally think about this idea of networking, which is to sit in community with one another, to get together, to like exchange ideas. That's not what's made me successful. And so I think there is a number of people along my journey that have helped me to be successful, but they're never the people that you think, right?

11:27These are, I'm talking like, these are financial institutions, they're banks, they're lawyers, they're vendors. And so I've kind of built over time this incredible suite of people that I rely on to make decisions and make things a reality in my life all the time. And you need that because no one gets anywhere alone. Like it's, you know, I love that people like imagine, you know, I'm there being like Mrs. Successful. There's like an army of people behind me and an army of people that enabled me to get to where I am today. And so I do always kind of feel like you've got to give credit to all of the people that are part of your journey.

12:03And you have to understand very early on that you're going to need a bunch of people to propel you to where you need to get to.

12:09Iskra Lawrence: And is that something that you will always continue to build on? Like, do you feel set? Do you feel secure? Like, you know. A thousand percent. Yeah. No, because you know what? You know, what they say is that it's small at the top. It's not small. It's minuscule, right? It's like the same people working in the same very, very small circle. And so you have to continue, and I think it's part of my responsibility to expand that, right? I'm trying to bring people with me. I'm not talking about leaving the door open for some ambitious girl to walk over or walk through. I'm talking about opening the door and dragging a bunch of people through with me.

12:42And in order to do that, you have to build a network of people that believe in that too. And so I think about that every day. And certainly when you start to think about legacy, you start to think beyond your business, beyond yourself, which is where I'm at in my head right now. that becomes really important, but you can't do that alone.

12:59Iskra Lawrence: Yeah. You have to build it. And like you say, it becomes even, and that then will go back to the East London girl in you. Like when I think of my mum raising me on my own, and the saying is it takes a village, right? Yeah. Everyone was helping it pick up. Everyone. Every auntie, every neighbour, every someone that you'd known for a couple of minutes. Also, whether they wanted to or not, it's like, can you do this? Can you help me out? And that kind of evolves, right? And now that's on a big scale for you. Let's talk about Good American because I'm such a fan of what you did, the pair of you to kind of, the way that you disrupted the denim industry, by the way, is so, it's, I think Levi's, I think Good American.

13:40Like, I don't, like, that's, thank you. That's what we were always aiming for. That was always so funny that you say that because in the beginning we were like, wow, there is this incumbent. And actually it's a really good thing that I think about. Whenever I'm starting a business, I always take aim at something, like at the competition. and I am one of those people that will learn everything about that business. I probably know the Levi pricing structure more than I know my own. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I know when they're in the sale, I know what's happening on the site, I know when a new thing's launched because you have to become obsessed with what you do, right?

14:10You need to go in and you need to learn what from the best. And for me, Levi still today, let's just be fair, is the absolute pinnacle in that space. And so we were looking at that business to say, like who is the most successful best in class version and how can we differentiate and do something that's right for our customer for a new you know idea of what you know being a woman is all about and so I think it's like taking the best from like who's there and who's doing it at the top and finding your own way to like truly differentiate and bring something fresh and how did because we're

14:44Iskra Lawrence: I think just as society, I'm so obsessed with the whole concept of creation. I kind of love the idea of something being a little seed and you go, I'm really into Levi's and how this works and the business. But then it actually being this fully inclusive, you know, powerhouse that it is. And I love how you throw these open casting calls. I'm so invested. And I did one with you, didn't I? But you genuinely are invested. Like you were there, you were in with the girls. I loved it. So I was like, look at her, just like going for it. When you guys asked me to come along, I was like, oh my goodness, yes.

15:17Iskra Lawrence: Because I'd already seen it play out in other territories. And I think it's so smart. But how amazing is that, is that like open casting, what it brings? And that sense of like, you know, how it makes women feel. And that kind of, everybody felt really empowered in hearing everybody's story. It was so brilliant. But how does it get there? What's the first step? Like, how did, how was Good American born? Yeah. Well, you know, I think that like a lot of good ideas, it came from frustration and wanting to solve a problem, right? It's like I'm five foot two. And even though I'm petite, I've got a curvy body.

15:50And I was just always altering things. And I was like, who wants to spend like 150 quid on a pair of jeans and then spend 20 quid? Yeah, you just don't. And I think actually the best businesses actually come from solving problems. And Good American was one of those ones where if you go back seven or eight years, like to when we were actually concepting the brand, it really wasn't how we live today, right? The media landscape was very different. We weren't seeing so much diversity, certainly not body diversity. And, you know, there were so many companies kind of putting one plus size girl, like a bit of tokenism into their campaigns.

16:26But not really making the clothes for her. You know, there'd be like cart at the back if you actually went around the photo and had a look. And so essentially the idea was to create a product that I needed. So it's like I understood the problem. And I really, honestly, Rochelle, I wanted to get out of being a consultant. In my head, I'd made so much money for everybody else. You know, it's like my background was in like building a media agency. And I, you know, I had the best client list in the world. I thought I had the best staff in the world. I loved what I did. But I was like, well, this ain't going to, you know, put me into retirement.

17:02This is just hard.

17:02Iskra Lawrence: And explain what sort of, what was in, so you were, were you doing celebrity partnerships, right? And that's your niche, right? So you've been doing this for forever. Forever. No one's done more. No one's, like, honestly. Explain how that would work. So I started my career actually in fashion. So I was in a fashion show production company. In the fashion show production company, there was never any money to put on any shows, right? You've got designers who had press books like this and budgets like this. So my job was to go and be the sponsorship girl. I would call up and say, hi, people at L 'Oreal, would you like to sponsor Julian McDonald's fashion show?

17:36Yeah, we're going back. I'm showing my age now. But what I forged was this amazing understanding of how you bring corporates and creatives together and how you actually do a negotiation. And I learnt very, very quickly that the art of negotiation wasn't about one side winning or losing. It was about finding this beautiful middle ground, right? This like a place where you could find something that was mutually advantageous for both parties. And I just happened to be good at seeing both, right? I'm a wheeler dealer. I come from East London. I was like, I can do this. I can do anything. Turns out, not so much.

18:08But we had a go. In the end, once I'd figured it all out, I run that company for just over 10 years. I had my first successful exit. And what started off as essentially this agency that was really focused around art and fashion and putting those partnerships together, migrated into celebrity partnerships because that's just where the media landscape went, right? We went from, you know, really being absolutely obsessed with creativity to being obsessed with celebrity. And so, you know, I talk about this idea of transitioning on the way up, like the best businesses do that. And that's what I did with my agency.

18:39I went from one thing and where I started and I transitioned on the way up. Grew the agency. We had offices in New York and in LA, totally failed in LA and in London. and we talk about failure because it's a big part of all of this. We must. It really is. But I built this beautiful agency group and to me it really was beautiful because it was a collection of everything that I had learned, that I was good at, all the mistakes that I'd made and the people that I wanted to work with. But out of that came a frustration at constantly giving away all my good ideas, right, and not being properly renumerated for it.

19:12And at the end of it, you've got to stop whining about stuff. I was like, what am I doing about that? And so the idea of Good American was really born from my frustration at not getting what I thought I deserved. And in my naivety, I was like, you're joking. I've like worked with Calvin. I've worked with J-Star. I've worked with all the brands. You know, I understand denim. Little did I know. I did not understand denim. I really understood a problem. And I had enough guts and enough naivety to actually just go for it. And that's honestly what happened.

19:44Iskra Lawrence: So, and then in that, you build the team. Yes. And like you say, the team is important. What sort of number? The team is everything. And I always think that that's a really important thing for people to understand. Once you have product market fit, and once you've figured out the fame piece, right, how do you market? How do you become famous, right? It's like, the next thing is people. And I think great companies are built off of this kind of intersection of, you know, incredible people working in the right culture, right, the right setup. and so for me what if I think about how I spend my time today I'd say 20-25 % of my time is spent hiring the right people bringing in the people to my business they're going to help me take me to the next level because I don't know what I don't know right and is that an always-on thing like are you hiring because this is what interests me like are you hiring because you're like oh my gosh okay somebody's on that leave or something which is always my thing where I'm like yes I love you I hope you, you know, I'm sending you all the baby hemper.

20:41Iskra Lawrence: However, my main, my number one is now on mat leave and I need to leave home, please. What do I do? Is it because there is a vacancy and there's a hole to fill or is that an always on approach? Never, it's an always on approach. And you know, I take a lot of speculative meetings. If someone good is out there and available, I'm going to see them. Do you know what I mean? It's like, oh yeah, I'm like - Just because. A hundred percent because you never, by the way, you never know what's going to happen. I have a predominantly female workforce. So there is always that people are making different decisions at different stages of their life.

21:11But more than that, you have to be opportunistic in your style of hiring, right? So I might not know what I need next. And it's really interesting because if you'd have spoken to me about certain positions that have come into my business in the last two years, I didn't know you even needed them, right? It's like as a company grows, as the company transitions, different things are required. And especially when we're in the type of time that we're in right now. Who was talking about AI two years ago? Not me. It's so true.

21:38Iskra Lawrence: It's so true. And even now, I'm not the person to figure it out. So I take a lot of speculative meetings, ages just to learn, right? How do you do it at X, Y, and Z company? And so I'd be lying if I said a lot of what I do during interviewing is figuring out, well, how is it structured at that company? What does that marketing department look like, you know, year seven, year 10, year 15? So it's really trying to information gather constantly, trying to take those learnings because I know I have something to learn from everyone, but also just being speculative because I feel like, you know, the best hires have come when I probably didn't expect it.

22:14Yeah.

22:14Iskra Lawrence: And obviously your portfolio is so vast. It's like, you know, it's absolutely mega. And I know I keep saying it, but it's, we can't small fry this at this point. We really can't. What do you think is, apart from your businesses and your successes, what do you think it is about you that make people want to be led by you as a person, as Emma? You know, I think that at the essence of it, I'm pretty straightforward, right? I think that you get what you get from me, you get what you see. And for the most part, no one needs to wait for feedback from me. Do you know what I mean? It's like I'm giving it to you straight away like it or don't like it.

22:56Yeah. You know what I mean? But I also feel that you always know where you stand with me. There's no like, oh my God, I didn't see that coming. You're not blindsiding people out here. No, no. Because, you know, at the end of the day, what I value is, you know, I value loyalty. I value really hard work. And I love an ambitious person. If you come to me and you are willing to put the work in, you are going to progress with me. There are people that have worked with me for years and years and they start in one company and they end up in something else. I would say every assistant I've ever had, bar one, because there's always one, that has come into my business in another way, you know, and made themselves like a career that is beyond where they thought they would start.

23:38And so I think that people want to work for people that they find interesting and inspiring. Beyond that, it's like about opportunity, right? And I'm not naive enough to think that it's all about me. I give people a lot of economic opportunity. And I think the true spirit of a leader is like, how do you take your people and make a financial incentive for them? Because let's be honest, it's like we've all got to eat. Nobody wants to come in at the level they were, work three years and still be there. And so I'm about taking people on the journey with me. It's not like, you know, I don't need to be the only one who's like making it here.

24:12I think the proudest moment for me is really when you can do that for people. Like, how can you take other people on the journey? And I think that the best thing about any of these companies is that we started with like a core group of people and those core group of people is really worked out for.

24:26Iskra Lawrence: And they're flourishing. Oh, yeah. As you said before, your workforce is predominantly female. So I want to pick up on that a little bit. I, when I entered the world of business, it was by mistake, right? I knew that I had been in the celebrity world for a long time, the music space, the television space, a very kind of fluid, creative industry, I suppose. And I'd done untold amount of licensing deals, ambassador for said brands. And I still do that. And I love that. And I love that I can sort of work with brands I admire and I love. And we really kind of like, you know, exactly what you were talking about earlier, finding those partnerships that work really well, right, that are authentic to me.

25:08Iskra Lawrence: and I love nothing more. However, I knew I wanted to take that leap for me. So, and I remember I was a management company at the time and I had this idea to, I was like, there's the baby toiletry aisle. It needs a shake up here because this is, you know. Thousand percent. Yeah, and I wanted to bring diverse premium products to the high street. I was doing my whole bougie mum thing and I'm like, this could be accessible. It just isn't. Yes, yes. And it was kind of Johnson's. It was just very, We've all been using the same stuff forever. We really have. Everyone's baby shower handphone was exactly the same, right?

25:43Iskra Lawrence: So I knew that I wanted to do something for me and I knew this wasn't going to be a licensing approach. However, the world of business, girl. I didn't know it was going to be what it is. And I love it. I actually, I'm so into it now and I'm living it and I'm sort of stepped into mine and I really love it. However, what I didn't kind of anticipate, to be totally truthful, because I was in such a creative space, everybody seemed pretty equal. And I'm talking about sex when I talk about this. I was so kind of blindsided by how male business is. And like you say, it's minuscule at the top. It's minuscule and it's male.

26:24Iskra Lawrence: Yeah. So I found it really kind of shocking, actually, that, gosh, hang on. This, I'm so aware of the women. Wait a minute. Didn't I just see this like, you know, women for women hashtag, wasn't I just this thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And on the board, it's ever so male. What really surprised me was the real, I suppose, the disparity between male and female and how small it is and how women really seem to be left out of the conversation. And I actually, off the bat, I found it really nerve-wracking. I've learned on the job, right, I'm talking like, I wasn't the math girl at school. I wish I was. I wasn't.

26:59Iskra Lawrence: I didn't pay enough attention. and that's what I say to my kids. I'm like, please pay attention. Pay attention, honey. Mummy didn't. Yeah, and now she has to pay people a big old wage. What would your advice be for advocating for yourself in a room full of men, which can be incredibly intimidating, without getting yourself overshadowed? Well, I love that you asked that and I have to be really honest about this because I genuinely think, you know, I spoke a bit earlier about like that network. I honestly think that when I look at who's been really important in my business life, it's been a whole bunch of men.

27:41Like I have to be honest, when we talk about women supporting women in business, there's a lot of people talking about it and a lot less people actually doing it. Right? Like let's be serious about it because I think that there is a scarcity mentality between women. like, you know, you have it and therefore I can't and therefore I'm going to keep this shit to myself, right? There's that. It's kind of like not sharing a contact because it might go and get,

28:08Iskra Lawrence: that thing baffles me. Because if you get it, then I can't have it, which is wild. Wild. Because I listen to my husband every single day, putting his, you know, friend over here with his friend over here and his non-friends, quite honestly. Do you know what I mean? And that is the nature of business. And so when you think about, when I think about people that have made a difference in my business life, there's a lot of women, but there's a hell of a lot of men too. And I think that right now we have to be really careful in thinking about women in business because we need men. Because men are in all of the positions of power.

28:44And so in order to disrupt that, in order to be part of it, we're going to need the boys. You've got to get them on side. 100%. They need to be on side and they need to understand what we need.

28:53Iskra Lawrence: But how about if you're, and I, by the way, I totally agree with you. Like my, I, Callum, who I've worked with for many, many years is, and I work with so many women, but he's my right hand. He always has been. And I'm so, you know, the decisions that I make, I rely on him, you know, and I trust him implicitly. however sometimes in those like room full of suits as it were yeah it can feel intimidating yes very much and you know I I'm a confident girl by default that's kind of you know I'm not shy walking into a room but I was just shocked to see that yeah and if you aren't so self-assured but business is your strength how do you how would you approach that you know because it's not listen you can't teach confidence right that's a working progress and that's a that's self-work but yeah how would you have you ever sort of felt a little bit inferior in a room like that you know I I really hate saying it because it sounds so arrogant you know and I get asked all the time about imposter syndrome I don't have it but I don't know I don't know that that is like what you're supposed to really say um and I always think about my mum like because she just taught me you know Emma like you're not better than anybody else but nobody's better than you and you know when you're little like your mum's always right and I really took that to heart like seriously that's so special what was that you're not you're not better she always used to say to me Emma you're not better than anybody else but nor is anyone better than you so every time that I've encountered someone you know like I always had a bit of an inferiority complex about my education because I left school when I was really young and I didn't go to college or uni and you know then you come across people and it's like oh damn like they were at like whatsoever school you know like it's like Harvard, Stanford like and I'm like oh god like I left like before my 16th do you know what I mean and so there's part of me.

30:44I wasn't a pop band. Yeah well they said what you were doing, you were learning girl. It's not helping me right now. I think I've been in enough situations now to really understand that you know just because of someone's background or their education or the fact that they're a man given that seat to be in that room it doesn't necessarily mean that they know more than I do or that they're bringing more to the situation than I am. And I also think that if I look around a room and see that everybody is seemingly looking the same, right, like white male, then I've got an even bigger part to play. They're going to need me.

31:17They're going to need me. They're going to appreciate my, you know, point of view. And even if they don't appreciate it, they need it. And if they don't know they need it, then I'm going to explain to them why they need it. And so it's coming into that space with a level of appreciation of myself and my own gifts and an understanding of what I bring to the room. That's such a good outlook. That is such a good way of looking at it. But it's training, right? So I think that anything like these things are not easy. And I think that we're in constant practice, right? We're practicing who do we want to be.

31:48And so I think even back in the day when I wasn't coming with so much confidence or so much authority or so much experience, I was just practicing being a baller. I was like, I want to be like this. And so I came into the room, like trying to be what I want to be. And I think that about everything. I think that about my kids, it's like, I am modeling every day, the type of behavior that I expect from them. But I'm also modeling the type of behavior of the person that I wish to become. And so I think it's a little bit like fake it till you make it, but it's also like, I really believe in mindset.

32:20We also know that like our neural pathways like actually change the more we do things and the more we practice. And so I really think that as I do things, as I speak to myself, it's like I'm really actually making the conditions for my own success. I'm really setting out the way that I intend things to go. Yeah, thoughts of things, right? Absolutely. Thoughts of things, that's what I sound like, isn't it? A thousand percent. And you know, here's the thing, Rochelle, because we're in, you know, we're in a constant conversation with ourselves, right? It's like my brain is going all day long and I can tell myself I can't, I can't.

32:54it's hard, it's hard, I don't, I don't. That can all happen. And it does happen at times. So it's like I've trained myself to speak positively about who I am, to really encourage myself. Because I think about not the journey forward, I think, God, how far I've come. And so I really honestly believe that the way you speak to yourself and the way you think about things has a way of just happening, of just manifesting in your life. Now, I definitely you're not one of these people, you know, that thinks like in this toxically positive way that you're just going to think and manifest yourself into success.

33:30You ain't, right? That is total rubbish. You've got to have the hard work and you've got to have, you know, the kind of gumption that goes along with it. You need a bit of it. Yeah, but how we speak to ourselves is extremely important. And I've made a point and a habit of speaking to myself very, very well.

33:48Iskra Lawrence: One thing that I'm quite keen to know is, I've found this very hard, separating emotion from business. Because going back to... How long have you got? Going back to like the... You know, my mum, and she's said this to me since I was a baby, and we've both spoken about it. It's quite interesting. We mention our mum a lot, right? And what they've obviously instilled in us. But yeah, cheers, mum. She's always said to me, stop expecting you from everybody else. And I kind of really applied that in friendship. You know, like, oh, she said this or somebody's done this to me and I would never do that to them.

34:22Iskra Lawrence: And that's OK. And that's lovely that you wouldn't. But you set yourself up for a disappointment when you expect you or your values from everybody else. So, I mean, am I basically saying, Emma, am I ever going to not feel emotional when it comes to business? Because, you know, there's certain moves that you're like, wow, OK, that's took me by surprise. And I'm getting better every day. it's kind of, you know, not reacting and just kind of, you know, I'm getting better at how I handle it. However, it hits in there. And I think when something is your baby and something is so you, it's quite hard to take, not to take it personally.

34:59A thousand percent. I think about that all the time because I am an extremely emotional woman. And I think that what I've learned is this sort of separation or what I've trained myself into is this idea of like, it's not about you. It's not about you, babe. Like, and I think about it all the time because it's so easy to take things personally. And there's this like amazing story that I love, which is about Oprah, like my idol. And, you know, I think she's going through some like mad court case like back in the day in the eighties or the nineties and it's with McDonald's and it's like, you know, global news story.

35:33And she turns up to Quincy Jones, she's like, oh my God. Like, it's just like everything's so terrible. And Quincy's like, what's so terrible? and she's like, well, you know, the thing that I'm going through, it's on the front page of every newspaper and he's like, don't know what you're talking about. Babe, nobody's watching you like you're watching you and like when you think about it like on that level, do you know what I mean? Like you imagine that everything is orientated around you and how you think and what you're doing and people have so much going on and so I've just kind of got to this point, it's like nothing is personal.

36:02Someone's decision how they react, what they choose to do is often so far from a judgment on me or what I'm doing or my business, because it's all about what they have going on, that you can't take it personally.

36:14Iskra Lawrence: Do you know what I mean? When you break it down, it's quite self-indulgent really. It kind of is, but it's easy to do. No one's busy thinking about you all day. No one cares. But even if you take that one step further, it's super empowering. Because what it actually means is your mistakes, most people are not even seeing them. Because your thoughts are orientated around you and everything that you're doing. and mistakes you made, nobody sees it because they're too busy worried about themselves. And so in a way, it's quite freeing to just kind of go about it and be like, that's not personal. I, you know, it's like yesterday I was in a meeting with someone who was in a bit of a rush and I could have come off rude.

36:52And I was like, but that was like her thing. That was nothing to do with like me. Do you know what I mean? Like she was having a day and didn't have the like, you know, mind to be able to like excuse herself. And it's like, but that's not a judgment on me. I'm super interesting. I'm a lovely person to have a meeting with. Do you know what I mean? Exactly. She was having a bad day. That's just what was going on with her. And so I try to think about that all the time.

37:15Iskra Lawrence: Like my younger sister will always be like, it's not that deep. Don't deep it, babes. I love it. And that's essentially it, isn't it? It is just not that deep. But also I do think, like, what's the honest truth? The honest truth is as women, we are emotional and we do take things to heart. And I think that, you know, I've been in America for seven years now, so I've done all the work. Really good. And I think that when you do that. I wish we did more like it, or I wish it was more, you know, it was spoken about more. Because we all have to do the work. Listen, we all have to do the work. And I think that as you start to do some of that and you start to process a bit, what you have to understand is like where those triggers come from and what it says about you.

37:53And I think that in business, I think that's a really important place to do the work, right? Because we all come with our past experiences, our past employment experiences, who we had as a leader, a manager, whatever. And bringing that stuff into the workplace can be really toxic. And so for you to understand your triggers and get to the root of where they come from is as important in business as it is in your personal life.

38:15Iskra Lawrence: Yeah, you're so right. You're so right. Success. Let's talk about success. Let's talk about the fun. Everybody has a different idea of success, right? It's relative to everybody. You know, success to my mum was like buying the house off the council and that's like, we made it, right? We did. No, no, no, honestly, we did. We were like, this was a real moment. What does success now look like to you? What does it mean? Is it freedom? Is it, you know, how do you measure success? It's another great question because I think it changes all the time, right? And I've kind of been, I have been unashamedly unapologetic about what that meant to me in the beginning, right?

38:59I needed to make money. I didn't enjoy being a poor kid. Like that's just the reality of what my life was. And I think that once you've made a bit of money and once you've had a little bit of success, that shifts and it changes. And it definitely changes as a mother. It changes once you get into your forties, which is where I am now. And again, like I think that the benchmark of my success, even in business, like I mentioned before, it's like I want to open the doors and I want to create pathways and bring people through. But like, what does that look like? It's no good just saying that. That's like other people who wouldn't usually get to start businesses get to do it because I've helped them.

39:37Whether I've invested in them, whether I've mentored them, whether I've actually like brought them into my network and ushered them into something that would have been very difficult for them. Like that to me feels super successful. Having some sense of like how I am able to like be a mother and do my work without sacrificing either that successful because my whole life has been this kind of series of trade-offs right it's like I've been a better mum at certain points in my life and I've been a better CEO at some points in my life and I've said it a million times before I don't really believe in that idea of balance and I think if we all keep running around as women trying to find balance we're going to spend our entire life.

40:16It's so exhausting.

40:18Iskra Lawrence: It's so exhausting. If I do an interview, the first question, I guarantee How do you balance? How do you say that to your husband? Well, we actually comment on this. We'll go to a glitzy event and somebody, you know, is chatting to us and they go, and they will say to me, never to my husband, and he's like become an incredible ally, to be honest. He, they'll say to me, oh, so who's got the kids tonight at an event? And I'm like, we're both, we're literally both stood here. Oh my gosh. But he's very good at going, but you wouldn't ask me that, would you? Wow. Because it's not, it's so archaic. And we're told that we're supposed to run a business like we're single and we're supposed to raise a family like we don't have a business.

41:00Iskra Lawrence: And it can be so, there's so much pressure. But I love, I love the hymn sheet that you sing from. That you're like, do you know what? it's sometimes I have been a great friend, sometimes I've been a great wife and sometimes I've been a great mum that week and a great CEO but it's really hard to have it all at once and I think we need to lose the expectation of the fact that we're supposed to. 1000 % and it is a series of trade-offs right so I always think about this idea of I like to level set so I like to tell everyone around me what the expectation of me ought to be as opposed to you projecting your expectation on me right and so that is about me being really really clear what I'm going to do and what I'm not and it being my choice so I don't like happen into situations where like oh my god I haven't taken my kids to school a week it's like this week it's not going to happen or this week I'm doing three drop-offs or this week I'm going to miss like xyz meeting so to me it's like these decisions are made up front because it's my choice and I manage the expectations of everyone around me and I don't accept the projection of anyone you know it's like there's always that security guard at the school there it's like oh my god I haven't seen you for such a long time and I'm like no no no no no don't you don't you don't see me for a long time you know where you just see me because I'm at work because I have to pay for this school so you know but it's like but these days you know I used to think it and just like walk into the school really angry now I say and And also it would affect me in my whole day.

42:30Of course. Yeah. But listen, it only takes once for you to clap back at that teacher or security guard. They'll never say it again. So I literally, I tell people now, oh, I'm not here because I'm at work. And you saying that is not smart because it isn't good for any working parents. So please don't. And let me tell you, they will never say it again. Oh my gosh. Equally in the workplace, if people are like, oh, we're starting at 9.30 because you did the school run. I'm like, yeah, we are. And that's the expectation. Yeah. So I think that if people can accept what you tell them, what you inform them of, and that is a really important part, just setting the expectations of what is going to be okay for you.

43:08Iskra Lawrence: And being firm on that, I suppose. Like that boundary setting is like... Firm AF. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No wiggle room. We're getting there. No, no. I just need you on speed dial. Yeah, no, I think it's good to be uncompromising. Be like this at the school. My friend said this. This is it. That's what she said, okay? Listen. Me on the phone. Everybody's good, you know, because I feel like we're uncompromising about so many things in our lives, but our limitations are the first things to go. And if you flip that on its head, you actually find you give less at the back end. So I'm like, just be firm from the beginning.

43:39It's like, no, no, thank you.

43:41Iskra Lawrence: And do you know what? But even you saying this is so, it's so encouraging and it's so important. We did need to change that narrative that society makes us think is, you know, that also the society makes us think that we have to have children. Like not every, you know, some of my girlfriends, there's so much pressure on women to have to be a certain way, to live a certain life. And people measure success. And that's why I asked you, how does it look to you? Very differently. People measure it so, so differently. And it's so, so relative. And yeah, it really is. I know you do, because I want to sort of deep dive into this a little bit, because you spoke about you doing the work and you opening the door.

44:19Iskra Lawrence: But I want to kind of hone in on that a little bit. Talk to me about the 15 % pledge. because this, I love nothing more than when you throw your events and I see this, you know, I'm all the way in like cheering on from the UK and I see it on Instagram. It is so, so brilliant. Just explain what it is. Absolutely. So the 15 % Pledge is an incredible non-profit organisation that was actually founded by a good friend of mine called Aurora James. So all credit goes to her. I'm the chairwoman of the organisation. And essentially what we are doing is creating pathways for black owned businesses to be successful.

44:55The premise of the organisation is that black people make up about 15 % of the population in the US, and therefore we're asking retailers and brands to dedicate 15 % of their annual spend towards black-owned businesses. And really, when you get down to like, what does this actually mean? Like, how is it impactful? Well, what you find is that, you know, organisations are not inherently racist, right? People have prejudices, they're sometimes ignorant, and sometimes they just don't know. And so when you're a part of a buying or a merchandising organisation within a big company, maybe you just don't have access or the information to know, like, what are the brands outside your network that you should be buying?

45:36And so what we are doing is essentially going into those organisations, having them take the pledge, which is to say they sign a contractual obligation to get towards these 15 % target, right? So it's not like I pledge allegiance. No, it's like, I signed it. I'm working on doing it. But by the same, but it is good. And by the same token, I think what's important is that this is done over an amount of time. This isn't about rushing into something that's insustainable for the organisation. What we're looking for is long-term growth, long-term opportunities for these businesses to thrive. And by making the commitment, those beautiful, incredible retailers are saying, I'm going to commit to doing business differently.

46:18I'm going to commit to looking at what's required in our business and bringing brands in that wouldn't normally be here. But the fact is, Rochelle, and you understand this better than anyone, black brands aren't just for black people, right? If you make an amazing hair product, we can all use that hair product, right? You make an amazing blouse, anyone can wear that blouse. And so it's really taking, like demystifying the idea of who these brands are made for and who the end customer is. And at the end of the day, this is a business proposition. It is a proposition for these companies to be more successful and to reach more consumers.

46:50And that is not something that you can argue with. Supporting small businesses is not a proposition that anyone can go, I don't think that's a good idea. Yeah, terrible. It's never going to work. It's just a great idea. And at this point, we've created a$16 billion pipeline of opportunity for black-owned businesses. And so I think that people look at the 15 % pledge and you see the gala and you see the celebration, what actually is underneath all that is hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of brands that are on the shelf of Sephora, of Nordstrom, of Macy's, of Bloomingdale's that would never otherwise be there.

47:22And so to me, it's such a proud moment because when you meet these founders, they're like, oh my God, you know, my brand is now in Nordstrom. Now I get to hire a bit more of a team. Now I get to like help impact like XYZ business goal that I have. But you know what is the most incredible? All of these founders understand that they were given an opportunity and they are paying it forward. And so it's so incredible that what happens to help people, right? People that get help go out and they help. And it is just like this beautiful kind of like circular, full circle thing that I'm like, how amazing that one girl can put out an Instagram post to say that she thinks this should happen.

48:04I would join her. We would build a team now it's a force four years down the line it's a force it's a force to be reckoned with and it is honestly for me one of the things that i'm most proud of because it affects you should be

48:14Iskra Lawrence: it's so it's so so special and you really you stick you stick to your word the east london girl she's a girl of our world let's quickly talk about dragons in the uk because we love a dragon we love it and let's talk about shark tank as well stateside because who'd have funky i mean It makes me laugh that I'm on the telly. You know, honestly, I never, ever thought in a million years that I would do anything like that. Never. Did you not? No, babe. You are. I'm like a behind-the-camera person, and then I look at myself. I actually giggle. I'm like, it makes me laugh. But there is this new wave of, like, experts, you know, becoming public-facing because we want the information from the people that really understand.

48:59Iskra Lawrence: And whether that's like, you know, I love it when I see like glam squads are now like in front of the camera and doing incredible partnerships. And we want the information from the experts. It's true. If, you know, if I am a shark or a dragon and I'm going into the den, as it were, and I am like, OK, Emma Greed is who I want to invest in, you know, in my brand. What is it that you look for? What draws you to a new project? Yeah, well, I think it's a little bit like the same as when I'm hiring for my team. I really think about attitude over experience. And in an entrepreneur, I'm looking for that special thing.

49:37Listen, I get as excited as anyone about a good product. But, you know, I think I'm old enough to know at this point that like, your first business ain't your only business and you're going to do a lot of great things. And so for me, it's about that person. What does that person have that makes them special and is going to make them successful? And so often it's like, that's an all right business, but I believe in you, you know? And so I always get like that feeling. And I think that's also a lot about where I come from. Because on paper, you wouldn't really bet on me. Do you know what I mean?

50:08It's like, I don't really have that. But I think if you meet me, you won't. Oh my gosh, you're in. I'm in. I'm fine with what you're selling. You know, it's true. So I try and look at, like, what's behind that person, what drives them, how passionate are they, and, like, where have they kind of, like, what's the journey that that person's done? And that's what ultimately makes me interested. Yeah. So, Dragons is coming back, which, it's so good.

50:34Iskra Lawrence: You know when you're filming it, could you hear a pin drop in that moment? Oh, let me tell you. I mean, first of all, it's very different filming Dragons than it is filming Shark Tank, and I love. Oh, is it? Yeah, but to me, it's so funny because Shark Tank feels not real. I feel like I'm watching the telly. Whereas to me, Dragons is like, I grew up with it. I look to the side. I'm like, oh my God, it does hit different. And it's like being in that kind of familiarity of that studio, those people, and just the accents of the people pitching to me. I'm just like, oh my God, I love it. Yeah, it feels like I'm home.

51:09Iskra Lawrence: And also, I imagine for you, this must be like, you know, of all of the skims and the good American, this must be the thing that your family are like. Listen. She's a dragon. A hundred percent. The only thing that matters to my nan is that I'm on the baby thing. She doesn't care about any of the rest of it. I'm like, you know, she's, nan, if you see, she's like, babe, when are you back? When are you back on dragons? I'm like, don't worry. Don't worry, nan, it's coming. It's coming. It's coming. We're going to do our rocket round now, which might be hard for us because it's essentially a quick fire round, but ladies who launched, we've made it a rocket, you know, we're just ascension to detail.

51:46Iskra Lawrence: Can we do it quick, do you reckon? Come on, babe. Come on, we can try. We can try. I'm very long-winded. No, but it's good. We like info. Okay, so what are the non-negotiables for launching a business? If I am listening to this. Okay, you've got to have passion, right? You've got to have a thick skin. You have to have that resilience. And you really, I mean, this is just going to sound so bad. You've got to be all right when it doesn't work out. No, that's not bad. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fact. Actual facts. Okay, next one. When did you first realise that you truly launched?

52:31it was honestly on day one when I run out of stock I was like oh

52:38Iskra Lawrence: which by the way this happened to us right when we launched and I remember I'm like like I said come from that celebrity vein I'm like it's sold out PR's gonna go so I'm like girls we've smashed it they were like this is a logistical nightmare and it was like I walked into a funeral totally totally I'm like hang on are we not popping champagne now you know what though I will never forget When I launched Good American, I was a hero at 9am. By 11 o 'clock, people were like, you kind of underestimated this. And by 12, everyone was like, you are absolutely not fit for purpose. You do not know how you're going to run this company.

53:14And I was like, no, I don't actually. And I remember that fear factor kind of settling in because it was like, I didn't know. I didn't know that was going to happen and I didn't know it would be a bad thing. It was a problem. Yeah.

53:26Iskra Lawrence: We like the sellouts. We're here for that. Come on. What do people usually seek your advice or help for? They want to understand if their idea has any legitimacy. Ah, okay. I love this one. I love this one. What brand do you wish you'd founded? Oh, do you know what? It will probably have to be SpaceX, and that's going to sound like such a weird thing. It really is. It's not where I thought this was going. but I'm different no no no but you know like the the audacity to think that you can just go to space like I thought only NASA could go to space no one was thinking oh let's like be like you know the competition to NASA this guy was like I'm going to start like firing rockets like can you even imagine I didn't even think you'd be allowed that's balls that's balls yeah we like that unbelievable I can just imagine you doing your like Levi's research I'm like right researching to NASA SpaceX How can we elevate this?

54:30Iskra Lawrence: If you could choose one female figure as a mentor, past or present. Oprah. I feel like I already know the answer to this. It's Oprah. That's the quickest one. We were quick. And if, I love this one. If you could trade one of your current skills for a superpower that would help your business, what would it be and why? Oh, that would help my business? Mm-hmm. oh i mean i guess you know what would be amazing and i don't know which skill i possibly it's a great it's a bloody great question i don't want to trade anything which is so me um i you know what you'd want is to just be able to see around corners right and to see into the future a little bit and i think what i happen to kind of be a little bit good at is like having an idea of like what people might want next but it's like I don't know like maybe if I could just like style that up a little bit yeah like it would just be like amazing to have like a little bit more future yeah in there a bit more future-proof yeah in the future in the future now it's time to leave a tip what is one piece of advice that you would give to ladies looking to launch it can be you you know, rather than like work hard, you know, something that will really help our listeners.

55:49Iskra Lawrence: So if you could leave a tip for somebody thinking, you know, I want to start a business this year and this is my goal. It's actually, this is an easy one for me. Okay. Because so many people come to me with ideas and they come to me with PowerPoints and they come to me with like beautiful presentations and I'm like just do it because what makes an entrepreneur isn't the ability to think about something it's the ability to do something and so your idea on paper is as good as me thinking about SpaceX I could never make it happen do you know what I mean I'm literally not a rocket scientist and I think that again and it's a pretty female mindset as well that you can be stuck in this like I've got this great idea I've got this thing and if I could just and if I could just, and if it would just, and it's like, no, no, no, you've got to do.

56:40And in order for you to raise finance, to even attract people to the idea, like you have to be out there. And so I would say to anyone thinking about starting a business, have a crack, get it going. Do it on the smallest scale, like figure out a way that you can test and fail quickly and go again. But whatever it is, an idea on paper is not how we start to think about becoming an entrepreneur. That's just like writing, you know? what you've got to do is do it. So go.

57:09Iskra Lawrence: Just get out there. Get on with it. What are you waiting for? And lastly, I promised myself, because I'm a nosy girl and I love food. Love a nosy girl. I love food and I'm a nosy girl. Same, same, babe. There we go. Well, you're going to like this one because people are listening in their lunch hour. That's the point, right? On your lunch hour, listen to us, right? Okay. So you're a lady who's launched, but in terms of ladies who lunch, what is your go-to order when you're in the office do you sit at your desk and you work in lunch are you out are you what what's your go-to lunch order babe we're in la we're just like shaking salads you're shaking salad it's a fact but what's your salad oh well do you know what we get like this is the passion i want here's the thing it's like first of all i get so miserable almost every day that I'm given a salad and it's like I have this rule you know like the Obama rule I don't make small decisions so I don't choose what I'm wearing every day I don't choose what I'm eating it's like I outsource all of that stuff and I focus on the thing that matters so every day I get this like giant bowl of greens and like my whole demeanour's like for 10 minutes I'm annoyed at whoever has given me that no one wants dry lettuce no no and it's just like I don't wet lettuce I don't dry lettuce I don't want any lettuce but I have lettuce every day because I'm disciplined and that's what I'm supposed to do and I need my greens having said that What my little treat is, is that I get, like, Jamaican food from the Jamaican food shop.

58:31And I will have, like, curry goat, rice and peas and a vegetable patty. And, like, literally my whole day gets better. And everyone's like, how is she not sleeping? And I'm like, no. It energises me. And I'm like, ah. Because it's the treat. Because it's, like, the treat of life. And it takes you back to my childhood. And I just, like, it is my favourite thing in the world.

58:50Iskra Lawrence: And do you step away from your desk? Or do you make, like, a point of going to lunch? Or is it just, like, let's eat whilst we're in? I'm eating and speaking with my mouth full. I don't have no time for lunch. Right, okay, fine. We've got to be real about these things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no time. It's on the go. Okay. Sadly, you know, I want to give you, like, the work-life balance. No, I didn't know. Being mindful eating. I ain't mindful eating at all. I'm shoveling. You're seeing what's in my mouth. She's got curry gum. I'm talking. Exactly. It's not a cute picture. It ain't a cute picture, but I feel good about it.

59:19Iskra Lawrence: And you got it done. You got it done. Emma, I have absolutely loved this. Oh, thank you. so much for chatting with me. I'm so proud of you and I'm so excited about this being like a thing. I mean, the idea that people are going to listen to this in their lunch break, you're dead. I'm dying. It's so good. It's amazing. What good use of your time. What animal woman you're about to be. They're going to go back into their next meeting and boss. Can you imagine? That's it. The host podcast. Emma said you need me. Two o 'clock hour. Emma said you need me. What's happening at two o 'clock with all these girls across the country?

59:52Iskra Lawrence: They're wired. thank you so much you are the dream first guest this is a moment guys thank you I love that what a treat

1:00:07Iskra Lawrence: I told you should be good I learnt so much from that she is so so brilliant such an inspiration and you know I learnt a lot from backing yourself in every room you step in and ultimately just cracking on and doing it what have you got to lose I hope you enjoyed it and I hope you took something away from that. Don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts so that you don't miss out because next week we're going to meet another incredible lady who launched. Thanks for listening. If like me, you're a watcher, don't forget to follow us on YouTube and also like and subscribe.