Ep 62: How I Turned Instagram Followers Into A Global Fashion Empire ft Matilda Djerf

0:00Today I'm joined by Matilda Djerf, Swedish entrepreneur and founder of Djerf Avenue, known for building a brand rooted in community and timeless style. Matilda has also experienced the reality of growing a business in the public eye. After navigating personal and professional challenges, she's emerged with a renewed perspective on leadership and what it really takes to build a brand that lasts.

0:34I'm so pleased you're here I'm so I know that we've been trying to make this work so I'm so pleased to sit down talk to you unpack everything and these are genuinely my favourite days where I get to have conversations with women that I've seen from afar and I've seen your journey and the ups, downs, highs, lows everything in between and that's one thing that every founder on this podcast has in common and I think as women we don't ever get the chance to discuss it we like pass each other events or you know it's all very surface level so I can't wait to have a real conversation with you. So let's start in the same way that I start every single interview and that is kind of looking back at the younger you and sort of really discovering where that entrepreneurial kind of spark really came from so I know that you grew up in Sweden so tell me a little bit about the younger Matilda the younger Matilda I feel like this is something that I have like especially reflected on the last year and like two years um and I come from a really small town um called Borås I was going to attempt to say it and I'm not going to I was like low-key waiting for you I went to Sweden um yes um burros is it's a difficult name to pronounce um but yes so i'm from a small town burros it's a very it's a very like small town you know like your vision of a small town that's what burros is right um very you know i grew up with my mom and dad my two siblings i have the best family truly the best family i'm such a homebody i'm such a family person And my fiance is usually like, oh, we're doing dinner with them again.

2:15And I'm like, yeah. You're not marrying just me, you're marrying the whole family. Oh, fully, like fully. And he's not part of the family. We've been together for 11 years. And like, he's really like grown up with the family now. So it's very sweet. But yeah. And, you know, from a young age, I was always very, my mom describes me as like, I had very high integrity. Like if somebody wanted to, you know, carry me, I was very like selective. whereas so my sister was very just the opposite that is so that is such a good description of my daughters and it's so funny because you can really see that early on yeah and I suppose being comfortable with yeah yeah sussing everybody out exactly and like also my mom would always say that you know when she if I was telling a story and she stopped listening I would be like mom you're not listening like she couldn't really fool me yeah and I think that's also kind of something that has you know it's still with me today I think like that you saw those signs early on it makes sense for me when my mom talks about it um so yeah I lived in a white house with my family um you know I had it was like on a cul-de-sac with my friends it was truly the best childhood and then when I was nine so 2006 we moved to Monterey California wow yeah and I left that's worlds apart yeah it's worlds apart and we have this internal joke me and my friends that I always say when I lived in the U.S.

3:37because it shaped me so much so it's truly like one of those things that I often talk about when I talk about you know my journey and how I became who I am today but it really is like it's actually like you know so different and I suppose that adjustment like going from that small sort of small town energy to literally kind of the big smoke where you know that when I say worlds apart like that's no exaggeration how did you how was adjusting and I suppose that then goes on to later on in life like being able to adjust really quickly when things change how was that for you do you remember that is that like a poignant time in your life well I remember going there and I didn't know the language um I knew how to say hi my name is Matilda um but that was like that was it well that's huge so I was in elementary school and I had a teacher Mrs.

4:30Brown and she was the sweetest and she was so just you know patient with me like we did like a journal session every morning and I wrote in Swedish and then eventually one day I was like can I try writing in English because at that age you just soak everything up you're like a little sponge um but and you're fearless too exactly I didn't feel fearless at the time but looking back I feel like I was fearless but when I was in it I felt so small and I you know like the first two weeks I just cried every day at school I just cried and cried and I wanted my mom to be there she was only allowed to be with me for like 20 minutes and then drop off lunch so I just felt very small yeah it was tough and what were what were like because children I think are the harshest yeah critics they are you know and I see it now even with my little ones being at school I forgot how like ruthless kids are they will say whatever they see and there's kind of no filter and I mean even me being a parent is the most humbling when I think I'm great or I think I've got it going on and my daughter will be like mom that's not cool yeah how how were other children to you because being different and there's no doubt about it you would have been different how was that time was it was it hard amongst your peers honestly those two years and the the people that i had in my class they were all just so incredibly sweet i really had like a very genuinely good experience in school in the u.s um it was yeah it was they were very sweet and they tried like even them trying to communicate with me and not knowing the language like i just i really do only have good memories of my school friends in the u.s incredible yeah it's incredible it's like and I made some of my like some of the friendships that I made there still are so apparent like they're so with me and my daily life and even though I don't see them you know I love following them I love seeing what they're doing in their lives now and it's just really cool to be able to follow somebody's journey I mean that's like thank thanks to social media yeah yeah of course it's nice because then you kind of feel and I always feel like that's always the sign of like a real true friend is that you don't have to be with each other every day.

6:38But, you know, in those moments where you might not have seen each other for years and you can have lunch like it, you know, like you saw each other yesterday. That's how you know you've got, you've got a good friend and a good relationship. Do you complete school there? Are you there throughout the kind of high school years? So I did two years. So fourth and fifth grade. And I feel like those years really did shape me. First of all, like, you know, when we moved, we didn't really know anyone in the family. So we became really, really tight knit. we became like a core family we did everything together and that really shaped our family kind of um like the relationship that we all have with each other and I feel very grateful for that they're like my family that's my safe space that's my you know they're my best friends um but then also it just opened up my eyes to something that you know I hadn't seen before growing up in a small town I feel like you know there's one path like yes everybody tells you this is what you're going gonna do after high school this is where you work this is like you can't dream too big you can't chase your dreams like you're here yeah and then I feel like the trip to the U.S.

7:41kind of showed me that oh there's a different mindset like there's more to life than just this small town yeah um and not that there's anything I mean Boros is a beautiful town and I've had really fun experiences there but I also knew coming back that this isn't where I see myself living my entire life okay because I think like you say like had you have been there and been based there the whole time you might have felt the sort of need to conform a little bit because that often happens in smaller places and it's okay and that's okay if that's what you want I think also it's giving yourself the license to want more yeah because when you're from somewhere and everyone's doing the same thing and I remember really feeling like that with my school friends it was kind of that route that by a certain age you have kids which weirdly I did because on paper I was like the career girl and I was never really at home and I was always kind of looking to do more and I wasn't necessarily with my childhood sweetheart and that kind of wasn't the path that I knew that I wanted and I think whether you're confident in that or not but at some points I did feel as if hang on maybe that's what I should be doing like I sort of desired for more and it sort of dawned on me a little later on that that's okay like I'm allowed to be ambitious and I'm allowed to feel that and it's okay if my cousins and my best friends don't want that we can still have a great relationship but there's more that excites me than where I am now yeah I think that's a beautiful way of putting it it's and I think it's like you really just said what I was thinking it's like allowing yourself to dream big yes in a space where that might not be like the standard and that might not be what everybody else is really doing um and I think that yeah the move to the U.S.

9:25really opened up that kind of mind space for me yeah which I feel grateful for and how were your parents at that time were they kind of because yeah I've spoke to different women that have you know as you can imagine lots of different backgrounds and some want their children to stay and do university until this point and have a certain career or they're kind of really creative and free and how were your parents you know during your upbringing did they kind of have a plan for you or did they let you lead they my parents have always been so incredibly supportive we are all so we are we're three siblings we're all very different like my brother is one of the smartest people I know he just like he knows everything I can ask him and he just you know he has the answer in the back of his mind like he knows everything he's so good in school my sister is also like she was so good in school like that was her thing she was so good and I growing up I looked at them and I was like dang school's not where I'm excelling were you so good in school no I don't think I even like really wanted to be to be fair like it wasn't a desire no it wasn't a desire for me I was like I want to do well but I never really I hated math my dad is great at math he's like yeah it's I'm glad because I kind of felt really alone in it at the time um and I think also So, you know, you speak to a lot of people and everybody's so many people are so good in school.

10:44Yeah. And I was like, dang, I really wish I was. I was good at writing, but that was it. Like writing words, that was always my thing. But math and history. That wasn't for you. No, that wasn't for me. Was there a point where kind of that clicked? Because we all sort of have that moment, don't we? Particularly if school isn't for you and I'm with you there. I always knew that it wasn't like that side of my education and, you know, my childhood wasn't going to be something that I needed. And listen, then running a company, I'm like, I wish I paid more attention in math. Oh, yeah. Fully. Fully. But I just knew that it was the creative thing that was going to drive me.

11:24And I really did feel that. was there a sort of light bulb moment for you where you thought okay I know that I'm not going to be too worried about this because I know my skill set is going to be somewhere far away from this that's a really good question and to be fair I for me when I was in school I just talking about like the creative parts of it I remember when I was I think this was like sixth grade or something we had um what's it called in English but where you sew things like so like so oh yes like craft Yeah. And we we had a project, you know, you had to do some sort of creative thing. And I took leftover leather material and I sewed it together to this like little clutch.

12:06And my teacher, she gave me an F. She thought it was the worst thing she had ever seen. But I was like, this should be an A4 effort because this is like I'm trying to be sustainable. I'm being creative. And I think that's also like one of those things when I look back where I can kind of see a sign of like entrepreneurial spirit of like wanting to do something a little bit different and wanting to take advantage of what I had and make it into something um but apart from that I feel like you know specifically connected to school I was just so like after school I want to travel so I just that's where my mind was I was like I want to travel I have to have a job I I'm going to get a job I know I am I don't know how but I know and I just want to travel and at that time what felt like the job for you like if you could have like written you know the dream role on paper what would that have been you know when I was in school I my mom is a social worker and I was always I saw growing up I saw her help so many young adults and kids and I was like I want to do something that helps people whether that's at the time I was like maybe I want to be a therapist I just really always loved connecting with people and building relationships with people and I think I at that time already had like kind of like a big sister energy amongst my friends and like people came to me and it was very easy to open up and to have conversations so in school nothing creative came to mind like I just I was like I want to do something that helps people but then when I was younger I knew I wanted to do something creative so I think that the path for me has been very like up and down and left and right and yeah all over the place sometimes that's like the most beautiful part of it though is actually but then when you know when we're talking about those early days it feels like what you do now is really yeah a kind of merge of all of your experiences which is which is what's so brilliant so I want to talk about online and that moment that you first thought okay I'm going to start sharing pictures and we're talking this is kind of 2016 era at this point which is oh my gosh 10 years ago um crazy crazy um that was kind of this I suppose for you like a real life connection with this new world right and I think which is what's so incredible about this is when there are lots of people that were figuring out what's for them how this is going to look there's this whole new world that you can be very successful in and create a path for yourself when you first started sharing pictures online and making kind of that your thing was you aware that it could be a career or was it simply for fun you know I started a blog I had two blogs when I was like small of like 12 I think yeah I think I must have been 12 it's oh my gosh that's so that is so cool I look back at it and I'm like you know we need to dig those out this is not a cute photo um this is a very odd photo but okay um it's all part of my journey um but no so I think that when I started like really posting photos um I started last year of high school I started posting a little bit more like inspiring photos if I put it like that and nobody else was really doing it in like my school and I remember I think it was like the year after I graduated I like posted even more heavily like I would post more often and people would absolutely make fun of me like they would make fun of my content it was just like why are you trying you know I I loved a product called Bali Buddy have you heard of it Bali yes yes yes yeah um always posted with that because I also like I realized I posted one photo of it and then they reposted it and I was like oh this is cool so I did more um and then this this group of boys made fun of me and then we had a big party and I brought him one of the products and I said here here's a gift here's a gift for you um I don't know if that was popular what was it what was they making fun of what just the idea that you're I suppose that's also new and they think that it's maybe a bit what sort of attention seeking or who do you think you are I think something like that I mean again like it's a small town I feel like that's you know again not the norm exactly um but so I think I it started somewhere there and then after high school we started traveling rasmus my fiancee and i we started traveling and for that trip i started a blog because i i wanted to share my travels with my family but it was only really for my family i didn't fully think that this will fly this will work um but then maybe two months in the trip i a bikini brand reached out and they were like i want to send you a bikini and we were in saint lucia at the time and we were there for six weeks yeah and i was like oh send it here and i don't know why i thought it was a good idea to send it to St.

16:51Lucia but it came to like a post office it was in this old lady's home she was so sweet but like we took the bus somewhere like it was all very it cost you more money to go and get the bikini oh fully fully I wasn't getting paid it was like a gift for you know a photo but it's still one of those really special moments that I look back at and I was like this girl I believe her name was like Renee um she saw something in me that nobody else really did and she wanted me to wear her bikinis. And that was really somehow the start of it all. And the biggest compliment. Like that's what a lovely feeling.

17:26So like you said, at that point, you're sort of, I suppose, accepting gifting, doing some content. And at the time, of course, like I'm getting a free bikini. This is great. I'm on holiday. I was living. Well, absolutely. At what point did that really start to convert, A, in your mind, but B, in terms of, oh, there's money to be made here. because at that time it was all still learnings on social media anyway honestly like the entire caribbean trip we were in the caribbean for about three months i was just taking on like brands would send me free gifts and i was just like this is fun then i came back to sweden and i had maybe like 5 000 followers or something like that and i was like oh no i think i had 3 000 and 3 000 felt like yeah i felt like it's a lot of people yeah i felt like i read something whilst we're talking about this I read something the other day and it's so true it says sometimes like especially in this new era now everybody knows that you can be online and make a career of it we get so bogged down with numbers and or how many likes or how many comments you should be getting whereas if somebody passed you in the street and 50 people said to you you look amazing I love you girl you would have the best day oh fully like oh my gosh wow I'm doing something right today but if you translate like 50 followers or 50 likes online that's it feels like nothing yeah so we've almost like conditioned ourselves to think like numbers are so so important but if that was in a real life setting you'd be so flattered yeah so interesting it's so true it really is so true sometimes I think about like numbers in general sometimes I think about just like you said like let's say followers and you actually start to think about how many people are actively deciding to follow you in your life in your journey and it just becomes very surreal yeah you're so so right so you get back to Sweden you have like 3 ,000 followers yeah and And is it at that point where you think, okay, there's something here?

19:15I think that, yeah, I was like, okay, something is working. I don't really know what, but like, this is fun. But I kept on working. I was working at a juice bar at the time. That summer, I traveled to Greece with a girl that I had just met online. Her name was Ellie. She was from Australia. I saw that she was in Greece and we started talking. She was like, well, come and meet me. And we were just like island hopping there. It was like two weeks, but it was at the time where like you took so many photos. looking back at my grid i'm like i was in greece for like three months like i was posting so much um but that was also like the first trip where we were getting like free hotel nights for content and at that time i mean i was probably like 19 like the dream like truly the dream we were staying at these luxurious beautiful hotels for free and looking back it's just it's so crazy and cool to see just two young girls do something like that and shoot content for a hotel that they used and that gave them more exposure like it's such a powerful industry um and then after that we traveled to bali and australia that fall and it was on that trip that i was like oh i can do this like i can make money off of this this is something that could actually like be my job yeah and then so this is kind of still like in your infancy i suppose you're taking a risk by giving up your job yeah and because that's the first thing that I think happens when anyone starts anything new you're like at what point do I really hit the button so to speak or pull the plug on working at a certain job because I'm gonna put my all now into this like it is it's still it's still brave even though you can start noticing that okay I think I could try this like it's still a brave thing to do yeah I I remember very vividly I was telling my it was after the trip when we came back from Australia I was like I I'm gonna try to do this full-time like why wouldn't I and my mom was like Matilda are you sure like you should probably like do the like stay at the juice bar like that's more safe and my dad was like no Matilda you should really try and when I say this like they're the most supportive parents but my mom is very reasonable when it comes to like at that time she was just I guess she saw like the warning flags yeah and also being risk averse is you it's to protect you like you know she doesn't want you to go oh god I've done this and now I can't get a job she's just thinking of like keeping you safe I suppose yeah for sure but I was like no I want to try and I quit my job or I didn't quit my job at the time because I didn't have a job but I was like I'm not going to go back to the juice bar I'm not going to back to you know growing up I had worked at so I did so many different jobs I like I was a fishmonger I worked at a cinema that is one that I didn't have on my bingo card for you I love that okay I saw an article and I was like from fishmonger to fashion.

22:02That's the best headline ever. But I was like, it's giving myself a little bit too much credit as a fishmonger. To be fair, I don't deserve that. I really don't. Because I was like 17 at the time, hung over half of the days that I was working. Scared of the fish. Oh, so scared. I was like, I didn't know what I was doing. But I also think that the day that I started, that was also a very like apparent kind of sign that like the entrepreneurial spirit in me. I had taken this job and the interview was like an hour away from my hometown so my mom drove me and her name was Lena and she asked me you know what do you know about fish and I was like I know salmon like we have you know we have a summer house on an island like salmon is delicious like you know we go fishing sometimes like but I got the job um and then the day that I started I was like dang I really don't know what I'm doing like I don't know how to fillet a fish so YouTube how to fillet a fish and i see this video and like i follow it and i try to like memorize the hand movements and then when i get to work the guy who works there he's like oh we're filleting fish today do you know how to do it and i'm like oh yeah no issues like i know how to do it and i start and he's like nobody's ever done this on their first day of their like work before and i was like oh i researched so i think that's like you know testament to your character yeah like okay I'm gonna I could be put in the most random situation but and make it work I'm gonna make it work yeah was there anyone like online at that point like you say you decide okay I'm gonna commit full-time was there anyone that was like an inspiration that you thought I could do what she's doing or was it still so early on I mean I feel like we had some of those names like all me song song of style was her Instagram name at that time yes oh my gosh I yeah like sincerely jewels and I remember the best and she's also the absolute sweetest person on planet earth um but like with all me I remember I followed her and she was this like this person that you know was kind of almost like a made-up person because she was so big and like everything she did and then she had done a collection with Revolve and they had a trip planned for Portugal and Revolve invited me and I was like what do you mean like am I going and then you know I like I was sitting next to Ami and like two months before I had you know seen her as this like yes almost like unreachable yeah character so it was like that's one of those moments where it felt very just like surreal that and also kind of like affirming that actually yeah I'm doing the right thing yeah this is actually what I'm meant to be doing you know these are the rooms that I wanted to be and this is kind of on the vision board and here I am on a trip with these girls Yeah.

24:42And I feel so grateful, too. There's like some specific people that really made a big impact on my career. Like, for example, like the Revolve team when they invited me to those trips, like that was really the start of so many more beautiful collaborations with other brands. And some of like the friends that I met there are like some of the sweetest people I still like are in touch with today. And, you know, I did an e-com shoot. No, I did a campaign shoot for a Swedish brand. And Anna the Booker, like I hadn't done a campaign shoot before. I wasn't a model. I never aspired to be a model and she booked me and that gave me so many more opportunities so there's just like some moments that has made such a big impact and I think about it and I just feel so insanely grateful and those moments that you learned so much when it comes to founding your own business and we'll we'll get on to that but what was there kind of I suppose at that time what do you think it was about your content that was really resonating with people well you know I because you know it's like the 2016 trend is really big right now yeah I know I love it by the way it's like scrolling back in my feed just to like see what did I do 2016 and I realized I was in a bikini 24 7 or at least it looked like I was like I was probably only in it like you were selling us the dream life like it's a bit of escapism perhaps you know like you're in these beautiful places yeah and I feel like that kind of like escapism was so popular at that time so Like, I think that was definitely something that helped me because I was traveling.

26:07I was like 19, 20. I was traveling. I was in Bali, Australia. And I was just like living off of my socials. You were just creating our itineraries for us. Exactly. Yeah. Like, we're like, this is where we need to go. This is where we need to go. And then when I came back to Sweden, I do remember feeling really scared that maybe this won't work anymore because I had been traveling and I've been sharing those parts of my life. But how do I share a small town girl like in Borås? like how do I share that life and make it interesting um and I remember talking to Rasmus and I was like let's like maybe this won't work but we'll see because at this like I I don't want to travel all the time that's not me that wasn't my plan I was very grateful that I could do it but I knew that like I don't have the money to be traveling 24 7.

26:52A lot of young adults go through that period of time where you know where whatever it might be they leave uni or they have a gap year and yeah they focus on traveling yeah it's not really suppose anyone's forever is it exactly so you but then almost it's kind of a bit of a double-edged sword for you because it wasn't supposed to be your forever but now this is what's really engaging to people and this is how you're earning a living exactly so I was like how do I go from bikinis to clothing but then I started posting you know just like for me it's always been about my everyday life and a part of my life my everyday life was bikinis and traveling but then my everyday life became this I'm in Buros I'm not really like I'm working with social media I'm not really doing anything you know a lot of other influencers they were living in Stockholm going to events but I was in my hometown just kind of trying to get by with the work that I brought in but it did work which I'm very grateful for I still could make a living off of my Instagram and then I also started doing a lot of modeling jobs and definitely that absolutely helped me be able to you know live off of it and do you think for you like we I'm always fascinated by you know somebody that's from that influencer background and has really cracked the code when it comes to social for you was it really was it quite key being consistent absolutely at the time I think absolutely because I was just always posting and I think the key for me was always also to stay really authentic and true to myself so I would always like check in you know I would be transparent about what I was going through at that time I had just kind of healed from an eating disorder that I had had for a lot of years and I shared like I shared that parts of me and I look back at it and I sometimes I think was I too honest was I too transparent did I talk about it in a too transparent kind of way if that makes sense I remember doing a live and somebody said something and in the live I was crying and sometimes I see that video and I'm like was that kind of almost bringing people too close to me but that's an interesting take yeah but then I suppose that is your that is your journey and it is your truth and actually sometimes there's probably something that was a little bit therapeutic about kind of letting everything be and being honest and kind of for yourself exactly and I think it also again connects to that like big sister mentality yes and my urge of helping someone else because I've always said that if and I've always said this I feel like if somebody's listening to this and they'll be like she always says this but it's if I can help one person then it's worth it for me to speak about my difficulties and like what I've been through um and the eating disorder was absolutely one of those things where absolutely that like being able to connect with so many other young girls who were going through it as well was really therapeutic but also empowering of course of course and I and I suppose if you're like if you're if you're being so open and authentic as you are on your channels you can't leave out such a big part of your story particularly if that's gonna help other people so it kind of would feel you wouldn't feel like you're being yourself if you if you kept that information exactly and I for me it's so important to go into a room or wherever I go and to feel like I am 100 % myself I don't want to be a version of myself that I'm not then then I'm not feeling good and for me it's so much about where my energy is and how I'm feeling and you know I want to I just always want to show up authentic yeah and that was the same thing when I started with my Instagram that was like the number one thing well let's talk about founding your business in 2019 and I I've sort of seen this from afar and it's just so incredible what you've built like it is so so incredible so talk to me about where the idea came from how that how you've used everything that you've learned along the way and I suppose the platform that you now have because the gap between the like 2016 and the 2019 I can imagine we're a lot further away from those 3 ,000 followers at this point now.

30:48So tell me where the idea came from and kind of what you did to first kick it off. Yeah, I feel like you're probably going to have to ask that question again, because I feel like when I start talking, I'm probably going to start. I'll bring you back. You go for it. You're going to have to bring me back for sure. But no, so we, we started, we launched it December 2019. And prior to that, I had worked with social media for I think it was like 2018 that I started like an actual like company yes um and i started actually like invoicing the correct way and like actually making money and not just you know accepting clothing in exchange for right yes a hotel night um but i also want to say that that was part of my journey doing things for free as well and doing it for exposure and for relationships um and you know the social media scene wasn't as today there's so much more you know people know to take charge like they know what money they're supposed to earn they have more kind of awareness regarding that but at that time I feel like I didn't really have anyone to talk to so I was just kind of trying it also really wasn't that model like I think even the brands were still learning at that time like oh we probably need to charge someone for this image because we've used it for six months and we only gave her a bikini exactly you know like it's kind of oh yeah yeah usage right insane companies were really they were lucky back in the days like could you imagine now it would never fly oh no it costs so much money would be so expensive no that nobody would afford it honestly yeah like back then brands would just use your images for so many years so I think I had one brand use my image for I don't know how many years I can imagine but it's but it's kind of true and at that time you also when you're learning you don't know kind of your rights and how that looks and it was a deal that was done I would love to wear that outfit thank you and you get excited yeah you get so excited this company wants to work with me like that's an excitement you actually has to dawn at you at some point that you realize your worth and what you are bringing and what you're doing for that brand exactly and I think that's probably where you become not only an influencer but uh a businesswoman yeah because this is now a business and I actually I know my worth exactly and I feel like that shift for me came 2018 and prior to that I had done design collaborations with Australian brands and I was doing design collaborations and I loved it and you know I to kind of connect the dots to what I said before when I was in high school and I always wanted to work with something that was like helping other people growing up I've always been really really creative I've always like loved styling the family I was always doing my friend's hair when we lived in the U.S.

33:15I had a Miley Cyrus fan page I was her biggest fan I also want to say that I had like 200 posters of her on my wall like love love love love I was a fan um and I had this fan page and I was doing like the banner like the hero image right and I loved it and I was like oh other fan page wants me to do this for them. So I started doing it for them. Unfortunately, I wasn't very business minded. So I didn't charge money for it. I just did it for free. But I think that also kind of like connects to again, that kind of like entrepreneurial spirit. Yes. So when I realized that like social media was working, I could make money off of it.

33:50And I did the design collaborations. I was also simultaneously having these beautiful conversations with my community and my DMs. And you know, they were loving everything. And they were loving the items. And we were having transparent conversations about what could be better what are you missing in your closet and then I did this one collaboration with the Swedish one of like the bigger Swedish brands and it was a true pinch me moment because it was a brand that I had shopped at growing up and I did a bikini collaboration with them and I loved it I thought it was so fun I was you know I came into the room with this like head of designer who had gone to school and she was so experienced but I also left feeling like dang I brought so much new information to them and I brought so much like so many different point of views from what they were kind of thinking because I had those conversations in my dms and when that collection went live and then when it sold out they wanted to do another one with me and then Rasmus and at that time Rasmus was working with me like we were working together with social media right and he just kind of goes like Matilda why don't we just do this ourselves like why don't we just create something um and that was also the age of drop shipping right like that big industry and rasmus had listened to i don't know a podcast or something about a guy who had this like drop shipping business and he was like you make money when you sleep and rasmus was like why don't we make money when we sleep until that's good to me that sounds so good that's not the case um that wasn't really how it went and he was like let's not be asked because at that time we were kind of the product that we were selling that was my time like I had to show up at shoots we were so dependent on me and my time that we were like let's what if we start a brand where we're selling a product that's not me right um and yeah he had read these articles about drop shipping and like making money when you sleep and you don't have to work as hard um little did we know that we were going to work harder than we ever had in our entire lives but also like December 2019 when we launched I was 22 yes so and that naivety is so important because I actually think if someone gave you a roadmap and said okay you're going to launch this business this is what's going to go wrong along the way this is what's going to go right and normally the wrong list is way bigger than the right list and this is how much time it's going to take and this is the stress it's going to cause and the sleepless nights and everything in between we would all go do you know what I might just design another bikini actually it feels they can take the risk I can show up for the shoot and it'll be nice so I think you actually need that as much as the passion and the desire you need that naivety yeah because i don't think if we saw it all on paper that we'd actually put ourselves in the situation a hundred percent like because it would just change it all yeah become less exciting and more like when's that bad thing gonna happen exactly you know for sure i think that like and we often speak about this like if we knew all of the difficulties like even like the day of the launch i think we would have just been like it just feels easier and safer to start this with another you know person or let them have logistics exactly give that part to them exactly but at the same time like I knew that I wanted to do something on my own and I knew that like when I did the design collaborations I loved it but I couldn't decide the exact material I wasn't allowed to just you know decide like where the items were produced the models like size range like all of those things and I just ultimately kind of felt a little bit left out of the conversations and I knew that I wanted to create something that really resonated with the community that i had built i had also kind of seen you know how like infants are they're invited to everything like influencers are front and center of everything the campaigns the events like the storytelling yeah and i just at that time like at that time community wasn't like you wouldn't even call it a community it's not the buzzword that it is today exactly yeah yeah i agree completely agree so but i've had these beautiful conversations with the community, with my community and my DMs.

37:43And I was like, I really just want to bring them front and center. I want them to be able to enjoy what I have enjoyed. And I have to say, you were really kind of trailblazing that because now a community is such a big part of a strategy for a brand. And how do we build it? Everyone wants it now where you were kind of community first, which is so interesting. And that's been, I suppose, what you could put the success of it down to is actually that it was so community focused and so community first that actually people use that now as a tool where you were you were kind of planting that seed and knowing that this is what I need to make this a success and I think it's because for us it wasn't a strategy yeah like it was never like oh we need the community this is a business move this is for the strategy like I don't think community it's not strategy and community I don't think those two should even be on the same sheet exactly that's not what community is about um so for us and also you don't have a say in that so it's quite an obnoxious thing to make part of your strategy because your community builds and you build that and they decide whether you're onto something so i think brands are thinking of it now in the wrong way because they're seeing so many you look at refi and just what jess hunt has built and the incredible success that she's had and her is her business is so community focused but it's interesting that you can see these big corporates trying to have a little bite of that cherry and it's like it has to be authentic you can't cheat there's no cheat sheet for community no you have to be authentic and the community like your community your brand's community will know if it's authentic or not and it's like you said they're that's their decision to make um so yeah but when we started i just knew that i want to put the community front and center i want to celebrate them because at the time also all of my opportunities were thanks to them right i wouldn't be able to do what i was doing if i didn't have my community backing me up and supporting me and helping me so i just knew that like i want to create a brand that resonates with them i want to create something that they want to wear i want it to be for us like obviously it's clothing you want to look good in clothing but more importantly you want to feel good in clothing that's what it's really about for jerf about feeling good about feeling confident and feeling like yourself when you put it on um and we talk a lot about like the external and internal.

39:56But at that time, that was just, we never, we never in our wildest dreams, like thought, oh, this is going to be a business. We thought it was going to be like a little side hustle, something fun. But that was it. That launch day, what did you launch with? Like how big was that first drop? And how quickly did you kind of look at each other and say, oh this isn't just a kind of flash in the pan this is a real thing i mean we launched december december 6 2019 it was like eight to nine pieces some of those items are still in our assortment today um and they're still like good sellers best sellers today which is exciting um but even like after that launch you know we sold out almost immediately we didn't think we would um and everything that could go wrong that day went wrong you know we were packing our orders we had we were in our hometown and in our hometown there's a lot of like um kind of warehouses empty warehouses so we had found one and we were allowed to like borrow it for two days i can't remember i think the first time we were we borrowed we rented it with money and then the second time we borrowed it and we gave the owner's daughter clothes or something like that um it was all very like like small scale yeah totally um and the first launch you know we were like we had rallied up our friends and family everybody was so ready to pack um we just didn't really we hadn't put so with like when you enter your shipping information the phone number wasn't mandatory and when then when that exported to dhl dhl needed it to export it into like a shipping label right yes it was the same with like zip code so we were sitting there and everybody was just like standing and we had this vision of like the shipping labels just like flying out the printer but instead we were like six people just like standing over the printer and being like can it come out like please help um and my brother and my dad and rasmus they were all sitting and like googling the zip codes and phone numbers to be able to enter it so it took forever yeah that's like a logistical nightmare horrible but it's also fun like it's such a big part of our story and like you know from the start we said we want to do everything on our own because we wanted to fully understand like you know how to do things how do we pack in order how do we upload the images online how do we you know i didn't code the website i want to say that we worked with a website agency i wish i could that would have been iconic um i really wish i knew how to do that but apart from that we were just like we want to understand everything so that if we one day and this is where it gets like a little fun but also like fun might be the wrong word but it's special because at the time we weren't thinking that this would be a business but we were still taking decisions like we were still making decisions like we were going to be a big business it's almost like that scrappy startup yeah it's all hands on deck and exactly you you need to like you say you don't think it's going to be this huge business but you need to understand it early on because if you're ever going to have any you're going to build out the team and you're going to employ people which obviously you then go on to do yeah you need to really understand it to know if they're doing a good job exactly but for us like and that's what i mean like it was so weird because at the same time we weren't ever even dreaming about it becoming something big but we were still like we need to fully understand it so if we hire somebody someday we know how like what they're doing looking for exactly um so we did that and then it sold out and then we moved all of the boxes with like the spare um garments to my mom and dad's apartment i bet they loved you for that um they i mean thankfully they actually did they were so supportive so helpful they helped us pack orders because we the same month we moved to stockholm right um me and rasmus so my parents you had a lot going on at one time yeah very poor planning like looking back i think we should have done things differently but getting an apartment in stockholm is very difficult and we had found one so we're like we need to take this chance um so my parents helped us pack orders at that time you know it would be like two a day right um and then they would pack it and they would you know like ship it off DHL would come and I look back at that time and I just feel so grateful it was such a special time being able to have that help from my parents as well that happened and then we did a restock and then that was in like February right and then again we like were able to just rent this warehouse and that sold and then again my parents would take the spare stock to their apartment and then eventually we rented an office space in stockholm and i think this was like may june right so then we brought up all of the you know all the garments and we started packing ourselves up there um but that time was difficult because then the pandemic hit yes and we were like at that time it was only rasmus and i we had no employees we had no team i did have an assistant um olivia who helped me at the time and you know when pandemic hit i was Like I was so scared.

44:51I was like, I'm not going to be able to pay her, you know, her salary. Yeah, that's pressure. What do I do? Yeah, I know. So, you know, like we had just purchased our spring collection. And I remember calling Manuela, who was one of our, she works at an agency in Portugal. And I was like, what do we do? Like, and she was like, we can't cancel it. And I was like, how will this work? We don't have a customer base. Like we don't have those loyal customers yet because we have only launched one drop. So new. Yeah, of course. So new. And it was such a scary time. so I called Olivia and I'm like I like I think you need to find a new job because I I don't want I don't want to I don't know if this is going to work and I want you to be able to find a new job before like we don't know what happens yeah yeah yeah um and then we launched that spring collection and it sold and we were so happy and it was just such a relief because it had been such a just like uncertain time um and this was like May 2020 and then so this is peak pandemic yeah this like when it's kind of scary we are kind of oh yeah having to isolate with you know we're we're peak pandemic right now yeah and a lot of times people now when we talk about the pandemic we often get like oh you guys must have like boom during the pandemic with your pjs and your lounge wear and it's like at that time we were selling blazers people did not want to wear blazers like peak pandemic when you're at home working from home like you don't want to buy a blazer um so i think that if we would have sold loungewear back then that would have been a hit but unfortunately we didn't would have flown yeah that would have been amazing i wish my planning was a little bit better um but yeah so then october 2020 up until october 2020 we were packing our orders so we were renting an office in stockholm and we were shooting everything ourselves so we would take the photos we would upload the photos you know put in the sizing put in like the description like everything the stock and everything like that we would go live the moment it went live we started getting orders we would run downstairs pack the orders run back upstairs answer customer service like it was all just like very like hands on deck up and down all hands on deck and I'm so happy we decided to do that because it taught me so much um but yeah you know we that summer we launched our tube tops and they were called like sugar tube top candy tube top slushy and my mom was helping me she was like what I don't remember was this like the sugar is that the pink or is that the white one like what do I do and I'm like no like we can't afford packing the wrong orders but obviously we did like yeah all the time and i think that was just also so important to do it yourself because then you know that when a warehouse packs an order incorrectly like i've done it myself i've done it so many times it's natural it's human error yeah exactly it's going to happen but if you don't have that understanding and it's your first time doing something then it feels you know more like daunting like yes an incorrect order what do i do but then we had already done so many of them um so yeah October 2020 we got a warehouse instead and that was like I think that was like the big shift for us that's a that that's a huge moment like you said particularly when you've you're seeing those little baby steps of growth and you're kind of like okay we are in a position now that we need this like you can really you know year on you can really really see that growth at what point do you realize that you need to now expand the team and it's going to be beyond kind of you packing orders.

48:12And, you know, this is because it must get to a point where this is bigger than you now. And it's kind of, you're only one person. Your mom's only one person. You're trying to make it all happen. When do you realize you really need to kind of grow the team and scale up? Well, even before we started, we had my brother's then girlfriend, now wife, was helping us with the production parts because I had no, like she was explaining like oh this is a photo sample this is a production sample and i was like what's the difference yeah i had no experience so she was helping us with all those parts so we knew that when we can afford to hire someone we want to hire her right because the product is so important we the product is the brand like that's what we're selling it needs to be perfect so she was her first hire and she started april 2020 right and that was obviously such a big help but at that time we were doing everything like she was doing she was hired as like head of production but she obviously did a customer service like you know social media like we were just doing everything um and then we brought on a summer like a paid summer internship um and Mimi started and she was with us for the summer and then we hired her because we were like we we now need her all the time yeah we can't afford to lose her what do we do it's it comes it becomes quite apparent doesn't it when you employ someone you're like how did we ever do this yeah like we were doing it all before and we were making it happen but now we have this team here I'm like yeah how how did it happen before but it's funny how you just figure it out yeah no it's I think that's such a good like explanation of it I think that before you hire someone you don't really fully understand the help that you need and then when you get them on the team you're like oh I can't lose you exactly and now I have time to do this which is what I'm supposed to do but I just neglected it because I didn't have the time um so yeah I think that year like 2020 we started hiring more and then going into 2021 we like built out the team a little bit more you know like customer service e-com and that was yeah I think that's when the big shift happened and for you as founder I suppose that gave you a lot more breathing space to focus on the things that you know that you're good at so that's the creative that's your sort of passion for the brand I assume yeah both yes and no I would say that you know I up until maybe 20 I mean even like 2022 I was helping out with customer service like when we had peaks I would always jump in and I think that's I think it's um I think I it gave me more time but it also I think at that time I was about you know I was 22 2019 obviously I was 23 2020 um and then I was like 24 when we started really building out a bigger team and I think at that time I think that I thought a good leader was being heavily involved and being really passionate right I didn't understand that oh being a good leader is also like building structures building processes so I think that yes and no like I did get more time to do what I needed but I also thought that oh but I also need to be helpful I need to be available all the time right and I think I think also as I don't know about you but as a founder it's quite it's also it's quite hard to step away from certain things when you've built something from the start so like you say you need to be around you to be available for everybody but there's also that fine line of not micromanaging your team and not kind of breathing over their shoulder when and I'm always aware of that like I want I want to be able to set tasks and let everybody crack on with it and I've got so much better at that now at pulling away and I think for me and we I was discussing this with a girlfriend of mine the other day and I was saying that you realize that you've built a great team and that actually that your business is a great point when you can take time off yeah so like when you know that you can you could go away for a week or two and know that it's going to be okay when you come back that's when you realize you've found the team for you yeah I get that I get what you mean yeah like I think really because it's it's really I think there's an ego thing as well definitely I've had that as you know being a founder where you're you feel like I'm so necessary to every part of this business and it's not going to function without me but actually it's not true and it's it's a blooming great job if I stay away from the finances because as we discussed earlier I'm no good at math and I'm not going to stick to a budget yeah and everybody knows that about me um so I think for me really focusing on what I bring to the table what I do best but it's also kind of you know an ego thing of actually realizing okay I'm gonna hand that over and you know I'm not as important as I think I am and what's important is the brand and the brand's growth exactly how does the business look today so obviously that was back then and you were kind of across everything I suppose stepped back from certain roles a little bit you know employing customer service and so on and so forth what does your role as founder look like in 2026 I think it's exciting because I think we often speak about this that my role as founder then my role as like chief creative officer those two are so different and they're so separate and I think that like even when we go into meetings um I always want to make sure that like okay I'm speaking within this framework like this is me going into a meeting as chief creative officer I only ever have like founder meetings with our CEO um but I think even like when we have meetings with our CEO it's you know okay this is this framework and this is this framework because those two roles will also have different kind of goals and responsibilities like as you know a chief creative officer I can be like we need to do this campaign but then as a founder I'm like that's too expensive you know what I mean so I think that's always like I really like just knowing which framework I am in yeah that's a really good way to put it and having clarity because you do have to wear different hats yeah and like you say the kind of excited creative in you would say let's go to Saint-Tropez and do this glossy campaign and everything else in between but the founder would say this is my business I don't want us to go in the red but it's remembering that and not letting it's a bit of a battle isn't it and it really is and at what point did you take on a ceo and how was that for you so we brought on our interim ceo last year and that was actually something that we had discussed for a really long time um when we started the company i was the ceo just on paper and i was like i don't want to be the ceo this is not where i don't really know what that is you know no really i was like i don't think this is not where my passion is this is not where my heart is and this is not essentially what I want to do so and then Rasmus became the CEO and Rasmus is great at his job he's truly magnificent at what he does and he is the person who was in charge of our massive growth when we had it he was the CEO at the time and he was just he he understands the business but he also understands the creative and the brand aspect and how to make sure those two things align and I think that's so incredibly important for our brand because we are so community driven and putting brand and community and customer first will sometimes not be the most cost-effective thing but i think we started talking about bringing on another ceo like 2022 from 2021 to 2022 we had a massive growth we had over like a 300 percentage growth which was incredible but also it brought so many issues it brought so many problems and challenges because you know going into the year we were one company and then leaving the year it was a completely different company and that's when we started having those conversations being like you know maybe it's time and then just you know there's so many things are always happening and obviously that's that's always the dream isn't it when you start a business you dream for that growth but actually no one can really when it happens organically no one can really prepare you for when that is gonna hit and being ready for the growth that is something that isn't always the case like we've had this growth and now we're here and oh my gosh what are we gonna do yeah because it does it comes with a new set of pressure it comes with kind of a different than now we're looking at targets and now this has all become quite serious exactly and now it's all of the sudden there's well I think the best way of explaining it is true like it's a new company like we were so going into 2022 we were so manual like we were doing our return sheet was an excel sheet like our return like how we handled returns we just put it into an excel sheet and you know like the customer service we had a gmail like we didn't have a system like everything was so incredibly manual and then we had a massive growth and orders started coming in at a bigger volume and how do we keep track of the emails like how do we keep the excel sheet was having a heart attack oh i was having a heart attack when i did customer service I'm not an Excel girl as we have now understood so I was like control f is that how you search or am I now deleting everything it's giving me a bit of anxiety for you oh yeah it was very it was very anxiety filled it wasn't yeah that was difficult I I am I don't like Excel sheets today because of that we've got a lot of comment it's our math brain I think I think it is I really part of our brain that isn't activated I really think it is um so yeah so that's when we started having those conversations but then you know we went into 2003 we started hiring more like senior we started building out you know team leaders within the company and then 2024 we were like let's do a leadership team and then eventually we like started because also bringing in an interim CEO or just a permanent CEO it's a big commitment and it's a big process yes and also as a founder it's scary because all of a sudden somebody external is coming in to you know make sure to have that person understand the vision and the brand fully but then you know also you want to bring on somebody that's smarter than you and somebody that's brighter exactly yeah so it was it was a process but it was very it's been lovely um nana has been incredible and it's been fun to learn from such a powerful woman in the business and in the industry so it's been it's been a very fun experience I can imagine and I want to bring it sort of now back to 2026 and obviously being DTC but then going into retail and in terms of London yeah I mean it doesn't get bigger than being in Selfridges like what an exciting launch and having kind of you know your community being able to touch and feel and be part of that process before they purchase is kind of a different story for you so yeah how how does that feel honestly you know like you said like self-reduce is self-reduce it's just like iconic like we don't need to say anymore it's like Beyonce yeah you know like it really is it's you know and when we started obviously like 2025 went into that year Jessica reached out to a senior buyer at self-reduce and you know she expressed her interest and I just remember being like what do you mean like self-reduce that's self-reduce yeah are you sure are you sure you're having me like are we are we this good like and I knew that we were obviously but still like that little it just felt so surreal stamp of approval isn't it yeah like almost like giving you that gold star and like you say you've you've got an incredible incredibly successful company and you have had for many years but I think there's something in that when it's a place that you admire and a place that feels so kind of aspirational to you that they want you and your brand is is a real that must be a real incredible feeling it really was and i think it was also the perfect timing because for us when we started the company we were saying like we want to fully understand the customer journey we want to be in charge of it we want to make sure that all of our values are coming out to the customers so they understand who they're purchasing from um and then you know we've we've had the business for five years so we also felt like okay but we have this now like the customers they know gerf avenue and even people who don't know what your avenue is like how can we make sure that they know um even when it's like at selfridges and the team who's worked with us at selfridges they've been great they've like the best girls have been on the floor and we actually had one of like the most successful um pop-up openings at selfridges on that floor ever which is really exciting yes that is what i want to hear that is what i want to hear and has that been like a completely sort of different experience for you understanding like footfall and and how it looks and positioning of the store and how you know how you're going to get out that stuff like has that been a whole different challenge for you too oh yeah fully and also like because we've done a lot of pop-ups and when we do pop-ups you know there's the creative freedom you can kind of do what you want within the budget um which I'm not very good at again I I like to make things really special for our community um but you also have to do it on a low budget often um and building pop-ups it's more expensive because everything is temporary yes um but when we went into selfridges obviously they have their restrictions their limitations of like even like this can't be like this table can't be higher than this yeah and we're like i need a mirror like you can't have a mirror and i'm like we really need a mirror you know they have the straight railing i wanted to do the curved railing because we always do that to flirt with our logo so there was a lot of things that you know were so different from the way that we usually work and having also to be okay with not being fully in control of the creative output was something that I had to work with and be okay with because for me it's just so important that we always show up in a big way for our customers and that when our customers comes to our pop-ups or activations that we kind of live up to their expectations and I think it's always so and so important to keep that brand DNA alive like even though you're in this store that you know comes with the restrictions and it's so kind of known and so synonymous you kind of want to make sure that you're still the brand that everybody knows and loves and that the community are going to expect but I think there's something really exciting and like you say like budgets and everything else in between that really does push your creativity too like okay we can't now do this but what if we like it's those moments are kind of nice and a little bit refreshing they are I I've always kind of explained myself as I'm a very like creative problem solver yeah I think that's one of my strengths right i love solving problems in a really creative way and i love coming up with really cost-effective solutions for things that usually cost a lot of money yes and there's there's no kind of sweeter win than that is there truly i'm like you know they were going to charge me 20 grand and i've managed to get this for two and also like girl math so now i have this money so now we can do this guys 100 all the time meeting with the ceo we got this over the line and she's just like rolling her eyes on me and I'm like ah I want to touch on like with the great highs there's always lows and everybody knows that and I think you've been really transparent in talking about this journey's never going to be linear right and it's going to be it can be bittersweet and as founders we all know that and I was talking to Amy Smale about this who founded Odd Muse and she's been I think she's been a bit of a trailblazer in the sense of she she's kind of started this movement of like that founder-led content where she'll kind of say I've had the worst day on social media and she'll talk about meetings and things not hitting the mark and feeling a little out of her depth in terms of like I know that you've been honest about this and publicly you've probably had I'd say your most difficult time personally and living that out through the public lens.

1:03:19How has that been for you? And has it taught you anything about yourself? So much. And it's taught me so much about myself. And I mean, I can't even, I think that would be like a separate episode if we talked about all of that. But yeah, I think that the number one thing it has reminded me of, and I said this previously as well, and I often talk about it with my fiance, say is that it was it has reminded me that I need to show up as the best version of myself and that's what I always aim to do but I think that you can probably relate to this you know as you're building a business and everything is just go go go yeah it's difficult to prioritize that for yourself yes and like I said before I think that you know starting the business I was very young and for me being a good leader was being passionate and being involved and available and also we should like point out that like early 20s like god I feel so far away from myself now yeah early 20s if I could look back and like call her and be like hey maybe don't do this or maybe don't say that like we'd be on the phone for hours right and I think there really is that like we shouldn't really underestimate of how much you do learn on the job yeah and you kind of need to give yourself self-grace too and permission to be able to do that yeah right like what being being public and being it's it's noisy right and I know this from being in the public eye and it's different and my vein didn't start off influencing but being maybe in a media vein like you put a foot wrong people are going to tell you and you kind of have to acknowledge that and move on but how do you kind And how did you not let, because this is something that every listener will really take something from, because there's always outside noise, right?

1:05:07And things can be noisy, but we always want to focus on the task in hand. And that for you is being a great founder, learning, moving on, making mistakes. Perhaps we all make missteps. But how did you kind of dial down that outside noise to say, do you know what? This is the mission and this is the goal in hand. Yeah, a great support system to start with. I would not be where I am today in any sort of aspect if I didn't have a good support system but also again like that being able to prioritize for me you know last year my priority and the found my Rasmus my co-founder and you know our CEO our priorities which is organization how do we take care of the organization how do we take care of the business and I think that when you know how to prioritize everything else kind of just yeah yeah why it's down yeah you're so right because I think even like when you look at startups like it can be and I'm only using it in like your situation I've had situations where it's noisy and loud and you're like okay but I've still got to be at work and show up and I'm leading a team and yes I've got a CEO around but I this is my business is my baby and I need to not let that bleed into this and when I need to take a moment for myself I will do but I think startups can really learn that we did a live show for instance the other night and there were questions asked and they were like how if you've got everybody on the outside not believing in what you're doing or if your family for instance don't support you and don't understand your vision how do you not let that put you off taking risks and I think that's really it is quite an interesting thing and like you say you were fortunate with a great family but lot there's lots of kind of young founders that will have the friendship group that think it's silly but then I suppose it goes back to those boys at school that were laughing when you were posting your Bali body and everything in between.

1:06:56It's knowing the vision, I suppose, and sticking with that. Yeah, and I think it's about being your authentic self and also realizing that no one's perfect. I'm not perfect, I'll be the first to say. And my aim has never to be perfect. And I know that that's also like, you know, being a good leader and being a value-led company, that's something you're recommitting to all the time. It's not something you're just committing to once and then letting it go. Like you have to make active choices every single day to recommit to the values that lead the company and you know to the version of yourself that you want to show up as yes but I mean I'll be the first to say that you know I've had throughout the years of running the business there's been so many things that has happened that I also look back at and I kind of wish that even when it comes like personal things you know I had an ectopic pregnancy 2020 and when I went through it looking back I wish that I allowed myself to heal from it properly and it's the same like I wish today I think the difference is that today I allow myself to heal and I allow myself if I have a bad day I also allow myself to say okay I if I can't show up as the best version of myself today then I'm not going to show up at all yeah and that's okay to live in that like you say I think sometimes as women in business or maybe expectations that we put a on ourselves or other people do put on us that actually we we wear that as a bit of a badge of honor like okay this terrible thing has happened to me like the topic pregnancy but okay I'm gonna still show up at work and I'm gonna do where actually I remember it's a completely different situation but I remember coming back to work way too soon after having a baby I wasn't ready I remember being on tv and I had my boobs were leaking but I was so adamant not to let anyone down because I said I was gonna do it and I thought you know it was my decision to have a child so I'm gonna be at work and like if I look back I would literally and I at the time was young I was 24 when I had my first and if I could call that girl I'd be like don't worry that what anyone's expecting of you you've literally just had a baby and I think it's such good advice because we could all be a little bit kinder to ourselves in those moments and give ourselves that grace that yeah we we think that everyone expects a different version of us but it's okay just to be us yeah um I want to move on to our rocket round now yeah um but before I do I'd just like to sort of look looking ahead to 2026 what's next for Jeff Avenue you've had that big launch and well we should not just call it a big launch the biggest pop-up launch to date for a very long time in Selfridges we're going to take that thank you what else is next what do you want to see if we if we spoke again in five years time what what would your hope be for the business?

1:09:31Such a good question I you know I always say like for us it's really about showing up for our customers it's really about creating those moments for our customers to make their life a little extra special whether it's like us being with them in big moments of their life or like the smaller moments again I talk about the internal and the external and how we show up for our customer in both the internal and external and I think that if you would ask me in five years I would just want to say that if we continue doing that if we continue to be there like be next to our customer in their everyday life and we show up for them and we make them feel good then that's that's my goal for jerf um and then like this year we have this is a fun year we are you know we have really good launches i've always been so proud of our product development and our team and the design team is amazing and you know being able to have a vision and then bring it to life and do something fun it's obviously like the best feeling but this year i really think that we are launching products that feel even more special um like now for valentine's we're kind of elevating our loungewear a loungewear became you know one of our best bestsellers and that I remember when I came to the team I was like I want to do a robe and I want it to be summer berries like I want it to be berries themed and everyone was like okay what do you mean like we're selling a gray blazer how are we going to sell this like robe and I was like my gut feeling is just telling me that we will and that has become our best bestseller like our loungewear is our bestseller to date and that's because you know the brand it's your dna like like you say on paper that sounds incredibly random when you're selling gray blazers but exactly now it's a hero now it's a hero and now we're kind of just like expanding that um that range you know we're doing our pjs that are coming now it's like more of a hybrid like sleepwear but also going out where and like you're supposed to be able to wear the top when you're home i feel beautiful but then you go out with your girlies and you put a pair of heels um and then we have really fun um collaborations coming this year that I'm really excited about.

1:11:32Yeah. We all watch this space. Don't tell us too, Sim. You'll get in trouble. The team will run in and be like, not yet, not yet. Alex will, I'm like, I don't even want to look to the side. I just saw her. That's the difficult thing for me because I always want to bring our customers like into it and like behind the scenes. And the excitement because when you're going through something and you're working on it and it's so early, you kind of want to tell everyone because you're so in it, but you've now got to wait a year. I don't want to wait to Q4 to tell them this news. Exactly. I want to tell everyone now.

1:12:00But also it's like with all of the, you know, like the dupes and everything, you don't want to show things too soon because then a dupe will come out and it won't be fun anymore. And they'll beat you to it. And that's not so fun. Absolutely. Right. I'm going to do our rocket round now. We ask the same guests to the same questions to every guest. And the first one is, what do you believe are your non-negotiables for running a business? You know, I've listened to your podcast so many times and I'm so happy that the rocket round, they're not that quick. Like you're allowed to actually say. started as a quick fire round and I'm like it was two girls talking I'm like there's nothing quick about this so just elaborate it's fine I'm very grateful because I'm not good at short answers but I think the first thing that comes to mind is just being authentic having like high integrity and authentic being authentic I think you know especially if you're a product a brand selling a product yeah making sure that the product lives up to the expectations that you have and that the products are authentic to you and your vision I think that's so important because I think that in this like very quick paced world it's easy to just see things happening and trends coming and you know you'd like want to jump on it because it works for another brand but I think it's just when you're starting a brand being so persistent with your vision and making sure that it's authentic to you and that you know the product aligns with it this is a blurry answer but I'm hoping that you understand essentially what you're saying is if you're a product-based business you're nothing without it so that has to be authentic and that has to be exactly the best it can be exactly if you're just making shortcuts and you know the product doesn't live up to the expectations that a customer has or that you have then it's not it's not going to work yeah when did you first feel like jeff avenue kind of truly launched and made it was that moment where you thought okay here we go i get this question quite often and i still never know what to say because in one way I feel like it still feels like I'm on the outside looking in yeah um but on the other hand I think that it's more of those like small moments like you know when you see somebody wearing your family that you have no connection with it's not your family it's not a friend it's just a person who is taking their salary and their hard-earned money and spending it on a product that you have designed and that you have brought out I think that for me it's always like a crazy moment do you ever have a moment where you like kind of like see someone in the wild wearing it like not necessarily tagging you on instagram but maybe like you're shopping or you've gone for lunch and you're like oh yeah oh yeah and and when i see that i'm like is it okay if i go up to them or will i be in a way and i'm always like oh nice shirt and then sometimes they know who i am they're like oh we have a good conversation then sometimes obviously they don't know who i am and they're like thanks and i'm like oh you're welcome and then i just move on don't you think that's a better compliment when they don't know because Because you're like, there's no, I haven't, the brand is now doing its own thing and it's living outside of me.

1:14:49Yeah. And they've got no idea and they just think they're wearing a lovely top. Yeah. No, it's cool. It's like, it's the same thing when we post photos. Sometimes like when we post photos of me, people be like, who is that girl? And why are you posting her all the time? And I'm like, yes. That's also so funny. Yeah, I love it. Who is she? Why is she always on this Instagram? Exactly. What's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to sleep? The first thing and last thing, it's hug or kiss my fiance and my dog. Preferably my dog. Honestly. I love that, preferably my dog.

1:15:21I always, I look at my phone first and I wish I didn't. So I do, I'm like, I'll give him a kiss, but I've probably looked at what the time is on my phone. Yeah. Which isn't the best thing. Poor him. We're all human. Yeah. Sorry, babe. Sorry about that. Is there one piece of advice that you wish that you hadn't listened to? um such a good question um so many i think honestly i think one of the and it's not necessarily an advice but um and i don't mean to flip the question but i think something that a lot of people within the industry will tell you is that you need to grow to stay relevant you need to just grow grow grow and i think that if i look at the industry in sweden where i'm located a lot of companies they start they just you know they want that massive growth and they do everything they can to get it and then they sell off the company yeah and i think that's almost become like such a standard thing that if you're not necessarily seeing like the numbers go growing then you're not relevant and then you're not doing a good job and i was having a conversation with a friend of mine who just started a company and he was saying that you know oh we have i was like how's it going he's like oh it's going well we're you know we have we sell a couple of products each day and then he was talking about how difficult it is because on social media you see all these videos of being like we made ten thousand dollars today and a hundred thousand yeah yeah and he was like seeing those things it kind of makes you question your own business and like you're not doing well enough and I think that obviously a business is about numbers like you can't get away from that but I think that this mindset that everything is just about growth growth growth and without it you're not relevant without it you can't really exist I think that's such a dangerous yeah yeah yeah yeah I agree and also it's that kind of that pressure of fast growth like you see like oh we're a year old today and we've grown and you're like what so I think it's almost like it's that classic saying isn't it they say that comparison is the thief of joy and it is it's so true because you can compare yourself to everyone online but you've got to stay focused on your own and not like you say business is about numbers but it's not always going to be you know exactly and i think it's fine to want to build something sustainable and more for like you have a company we always talk about like the longevity of a company and the sustainability of a company and i think that's so incredibly important because today you are bummered with just like the quick growth and all of that and i think it's just it's okay to have a slower pace and it's not bad if you don't see the output that you want year one or year two or year three like things take time yes and it doesn't mean that year isn't going to happen for you exactly yeah absolutely that um what's a skill that you'd love to learn math I mean I feel like after this although babe we've got we've come this far we've come this far we won't worry too much no but I think a skill that's I mean I'm always I always want to evolve I always want to be a better version of myself today than I was yesterday so I think there's just always so many things that I want to learn um and that I want to work with so I think that's it's a good question and I kind of want to go lean more towards like an actual skill I would love to be able to code oh yes I don't think I will be able to but it would just make life so much easier because it takes it's so expensive to develop things on a website I'm like to my daughters at school I'm like go to coding club like I'm like yep do do the coding class do this I'm like and then you can tell mommy everything I need to know yeah because it's it's so I don't I wouldn't have the first clue on where to start but yeah and it's like it's so expensive like you know when you work with an agency and something goes wrong on the website you know they've helped build it and then something happens and then they have to fix it and you're just spending so much money tell you like they like it's I'm so clueless when it comes to it that they could tell me anything and quote me any fee oh yeah because I'd be like oh okay is that what we need to do it's so alien to me it's kind of like carpenters yes it's the same thing for me like we just renovated our summer house and they're like oh it's going to be like this amount of money and five weeks delayed and I'm like you know what I can't really say anything because I haven't got the first clear way to start so fair I did however put in the wooden floor in our old summer house myself so that gave me a little bit of confidence to go against them and be like no yeah no I've actually done that yeah I've done that not on your level um what is something you wish someone told you before you started jeff avenue that it's okay to not be perfect and that that journey will be left and right and up and down like a growth and like journey and a business journey it's not just going to be up up up or straight it's going to go all over the place and i think just having that reassurance in the beginning would have made it yeah like this is okay exactly yes yes absolutely that um this question you won't be able to answer because you've hinted at it i was going to say dream collaboration for jaffa haven't you oh yeah we are doing one of my like dream collaborations this year which is really fun um because for me dream collaborations are always very much connected to brands that i genuinely love and use um so we are doing one this year that i yeah keep quiet i won't get you in trouble yeah we'll keep our eyes peeled we'll keep our eyes peeled um and then lastly one female figure past or present if you could choose a mentor Or who would that be?

1:20:41There's so many. There's so many incredible, inspiring women in the industry and in the business. So it's difficult to choose. I'm really trying to. I think, one, you know, Emma Greed. I think she's great. Yeah. I think obviously, like, I listened to the episode. I follow her. I think her journey is amazing. You know, she's married to our Swedish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Our Swedish. Our Swedish. We're claiming him. Yeah, our Swedish gents. no so I think that she's just such a powerhouse I love what she does I love how she's just like authentically herself so she's definitely someone that'd be she's so incredible and she's so generous with her advice as well which I love like yeah we'll have lunch and she'll be like you need to do this you need to do that and yeah you know she's really really forthcoming she's incredible and fearless yeah she really is and I kind of you want to be a bit of a sponge around her yeah perfect mentor perfect mentor I like the mentioned word fearless because you know going into a new year it's very popular to talk about like a word that you're bringing in yes and I was telling my colleague Alex I'm like a word that we're bringing into this year is just fearless yeah and I think you know when you've been through stuff and things have happened you've had highs and lows you kind of think do you know what that didn't break us that didn't break me it kind of becomes a bit of a leveler to say we got through that so we can do anything like we had a situation in the business that was around trademarking and it was my fault and I I fumbled the bag and it was the worst thing because it was my fault and there was no one else I could blame um but for me we got through it and it was a really we had to sell through loads of stock and you know how that looks when it's artworking and we just had like 750 ,000 units arrive in our warehouse and you can imagine how stressful that was um and we were hit with this situation and now I just I use it as a leveler yeah and I'm like okay this is a bit of a hard situation but it's not trademarking era so we've got this come on let's go so we've done that so we can do this I think it is it's being fearless and knowing that if you've overcome something difficult the world's your oyster yeah um I ask every guest to leave a tip so if somebody's listening to this right now thinking I adore you I would look to do something in a similar vein and you've inspired them with your brand and your story what would kind of one tip be that you would leave you know something tangible that if they listen to this and they could take away today what would that tip be dang i was going to say something that's not tangible um that's not good okay well give your tip whatever you feel i think that like i want to say something that's a little bit more like emotionally driven rather than maybe like business minded um i would really say and it's such a cliche thing but i think it's like generally the only thing that really is so important is it's truly to just believe in yourself and your vision and to believe in it so fearlessly and so authentically that no matter what people say and no matter what people try to like get into your head like you can just block it out yeah and i think that it is a not not per se like a tangible answer because it's difficult because believing in yourself also takes a lot of courage and it takes a lot of work but it's just so incredibly important when you're building a business and when you're growing a business because if you don't believe in yourself then you can't believe in the vision either because you are building the vision you're the one building it and recommitting to it every day so I think it's just so incredibly important and if you don't believe it how are you going to sell it as in like whether that's an idea that you're pitching or whatever that is if you don't like you say the belief has to start with yourself for you to be able to believe in anything else exactly and then anyone else and then them believing back you know exactly because again like it's 360 yeah and customers they're smart they will know if you're just selling a product but you don't believe in it and you don't believe in yourself and you know even like when you're pitching if you want to bring in money or you want a new partner like whatever it is like you do really fully need to believe in the product and what you're building and to do that you also need to believe in yourself because you are the one building it but i do think it's tangible because i think actually like you say sometimes it does take a lot of self-work but self-work needs to be done before maybe you get to that point like you need to start in a real confident place.

1:24:50My last question, and I love this question. We talk about ladies who launch, but when it comes to being a lady who lunches, how do you spend your lunch hour? Is that even a thing for you? Where are you and what are you eating? Oh, that's so different depending on the day. Okay. Okay, so give me your dream day, your dream day of lunch. Well, I will say my dream day is also so different. like sometimes my lunch it won't be a lunch i'll be working with like a takeaway food i am however i feel the best when i bring home-cooked food with me oh always like you bring it into the office yeah like i bring a little food box yeah that's when i feel the very best because then i know that i have cooked this i have poured love and energy into this i know what i'm eating i know it's good ingredients and there's something that makes you feel a little bit smug when you've done a bit of meal prep you feel like you've got your shit together oh fully like a full grown-up yeah i'm like i've made this guys yeah and i just feel like committed to myself as well yeah i think like i often talk about just like creating small habits for yourself to also you know build like parts of it is of course like the you know you're building a bigger momentum but you're also kind of recommitting again to yourself you're saying that you know i show up for myself and how i show up for myself and i think like something as small as like meal prepping is committing to right like investing care of yourself you're so right what would you what are you bringing in on like a day where you're like oh yes I've made that today what would be a treat for you well right now I'm in this period where I love like a little bowl of like rice and like minced meat and like kind of like taco and spice yeah yeah yeah a little bit like chili con carne-esque yeah but like more of like a bowl yeah what do they cook they like there's a there's a shop here where you like build your own bowl a bit chipotle-esque oh I had it yesterday there you go that's my husband's favorite if he's like what can we order in he's like should we just get chipotle oh yeah it's good isn't it and i always call it your poodle that's my life that's my nickname for it whenever we're traveling i'm like let's just order like taco bell or chipotle yeah no i love it i would have brought you on here if i didn't girl i would have it's my favorite um thank you so much i've loved sitting down talking to you i feel like i mean i've learned so much about you the fishmonger thing is going to stay with me for life yeah the vision of you youtubing feeling out of fish is in there yeah it's in there for life now that's it it's a fun image and it's even more fun if you think about me being 17 and hung over in a freezing little space i'm proud of you yeah i'm proud of a good time well thank you so much for having you it's been incredible thank you

1:27:35don't forget to follow us on apple and spotify and wherever you get your podcast to make sure that you don't miss out because next time we're going to be talking to another incredible lady who launched if like me you're a watcher then follow us on youtube and please don't forget to like and subscribe