Ep 63: From L’Oréal to Glow Recipe | Sarah Lee’s Exact Path to a $300M Beauty Empire

0:00Today I'm joined by Sarah Lee, the co-founder and co-CEO of Glow Recipe. She's built a global skincare brand, loved for its watermelon glow dewdrops, and it's now the number one skincare brand at Sephora in both the US and here in the UK. So, let's welcome Sarah to Ladies Who Launch.

0:31thank you so much for coming and talking to me i'm so so excited to dig deep into your journey i am i mean i've already said this to you as you've walked in today but i am sort of cool mum by talking to you today in a big way because my my gang are obsessed you've been on like the Christmas list the past couple years so um yeah thank you for just making me call okay well that's great to hear thanks for having me obviously this is such an amazing platform um I'm in my 40s by the way and I use my products religiously so it's great to see this wide spectrum of users and people that love our brand yes I mean that I mean you are the best advert your skin is absolutely incredible thank you I always like to start these conversations in the same way and that's almost by going rewinding the clock a bit and going back to those early years and I suppose those kind of earliest entrepreneurial memories because I really feel like how we're perhaps how we're raised or certainly how we grew up there's there's always that real link always between our younger selves to you know the person that we know today so tell me about what your childhood looked like and who you were then okay love this question um so I'm Korean and I grew up in a Korean household in Korea um and skincare and beauty rituals were such a core part of how we bonded and shared experiences as family members, especially between my grandmother and my mom and myself and my aunts.

2:10So for example, I used to go to public bathhouses with them every weekend. It was the ritual that I always looked forward to. And we did that for years since my very young age. And whenever we went, we would take these DIY ingredients. Some of them include spoiled milk. right like we would just have milk like in the fridge that you know is past the date or spoil actually spoiled and we would bring them to these public bath houses and splash them all over our body and when I was young I didn't know what those were for I just knew that there were milk being splashed on the body but later I learned that milk has lactic acid and it really helps to brighten your skin and strengthen your skin too and so you know I just grew up with these again DIY like rituals.

3:00With these like hacks almost. Yeah because we didn't want anything to go to waste. I also grew up with whenever I had heat rashes on my arms or my back in hot summer months in Korea my grandmother used to rub watermelon rind on the rashes on like the actual rash she would rub them and within like 24 hours I would see them miraculously disappear and soothed. You know, and now I understand, of course, that's actually one of the reasons why we launched the brand with a watermelon product. But watermelon is so rich in vitamins and minerals and it's so soothing and hydrating. So it just makes sense that it did that.

3:41You know, and my mom and I used to do cucumber slices on, you know, as a face mask. I asked her, what is this lunch on my face? And she would tell me that cucumber helps to brighten the skin. so anyway so there were so many of these moments that were for me a fun again bonding experience with my family but later on I learned that they were all amazing for the skin and that's just it's just part of the culture so I grew up very beauty obsessed naturally always curious about the ingredients and what they did for the skin and the body and I watched my mom do her nighttime rituals every night. She was patting the products on her face.

4:26I could hear the gentle slap every night. It was very mesmerizing. And it was her like me time, you know, she was a housewife and busy raising me and my brother. And but that like those few minutes when she was sitting in front of her vanity, and applying her steps of her routine was like her time. Yes. And I was just watching her from behind. And I just I loved her just kind of taking care of herself and enjoying that moment and again that was such a big inspiration for me and how I you know approach skincare the philosophy that we have which is all about gentle yet effective and being delicate when it comes to skincare um yeah everything to your point leads to how you think about life your business shapes who you are so I know that your sort of career began at L 'Oreal Yes.

5:20In the early sort of 2000s, early noughties. What did that look like for you and how did your role there begin? Yeah. So because I was so interested and obsessed with beauty and especially skincare, I applied for an internship at L 'Oreal in Korea. And it was a dream job. I mean, L 'Oreal is a beauty brand that everybody knew. And it was a very competitive process, I will say. And so it was a dream job for myself, but a lot of my friends back in the day. But yes, so I was lucky enough to become an intern at L 'Oreal. My first project, I still remember, was to help open the Giorgio Armani cosmetics counter, you know, as a first store and a department store in Korea.

6:12and it was a big deal because it was this cool brand you know that was just launching for the first time and it was all about makeup artistry but also um their foundation is so iconic I mean we all use it still to this day that luminous silk exactly luminous silk yeah iconic and that smell to me is so nostalgic like I had my makeup done the other day and I hadn't used it for quite you know because I do try and then I go through stages where I'm skin tint obsessed and I just want a bit of concealer or however that looks and I was having my makeup done at work and they the smell as soon as the pump yeah I'm like you know what it is yeah it's such a good yeah you're right yeah it's subtle but you know what it is but but the whole premise of that foundation is that your skin looks as natural as can be and you just you still look beautiful yes so that was really interesting for me to just take in and process and also just learning the ins and outs of marketing and eventing and product forecasting was really fascinating.

7:15So I was drawn into it even more. And then that transitioned into a full-time job offer, which was incredible. So I ended up working in marketing positions for about three years in L 'Oreal, Korea. And then I got transferred to the New York office which was another dream come true moment for me life-changing yeah a mahoosive milestone because obviously you get this job that you're really excited about it's a competitive process but then it takes you to a completely different territory away from family friends and knowing where I'm from that is what was because that's a real sort of cultural yeah lifestyle change.

7:59How was that move for you? As much as it's exciting, I suppose it was also quite daunting at the same time. Yeah, it was a big shift. But I was very career focused. And it was my dream job, dream city. Oh, gosh. You know, I mean, it is for everybody, right? So and I was young, I was single, I was ready to just take on a new adventure and opportunity that is so massive and you know I was the first Korean employee that was transferred to the New York office so it was a big deal you know it was so exciting um I remember my mom saying that's it that's all exciting good for you but um you should get married at some point we all love a mom to bring us back down to us don't get too high honey I remember that conversation very vividly it was funny um she's great but where's your husband exactly uh very Korean but um but yeah I definitely took my chances and um it's the best decision I've ever made it's so like it's so so exciting so when you get there are you obviously when you're so excited about a sort of shift and a real change in the workplace pace, did it match up to the excitement levels that you had for that opportunity?

9:19Because sometimes it can be underwhelming and you're like, this is not what I thought it would be. No, I think it did match up to what I expected, but it was a lot more fast paced than I imagined because in the work environment back in Korea, it was pretty intense. I'm not going to lie, I worked long hours. I don't think I went home before 10pm any given day, but also I volunteered to do so I it was just my passion to work in beauty and I loved my job and I was young and hungry and ambitious and all that um but when I came to New York it was I mean you know people didn't I mean you might know this but people didn't go out for lunch you know eating salad at your desk was so common and expected that that was definitely a shift because that's that does not happen in Korea everybody takes the lunch break um yeah it's almost like that sense of like Like almost like you say, you're driven.

10:14You want to sort of stay there beyond everybody else because you're so passionate and so into your job. But actually, sometimes there is, and that can happen in London too, that real kind of toxic like, no, no, no, we work. And that's a measure on how hard you work because, oh, no, I didn't even have lunch today. It's almost like it's like a badge of honor. You know, I think there was a sense of that. But I think it was really genuinely people were so passionate. Yeah. And they prioritized like getting work done. Rather than like. Anything else. Because they wanted to. You know I don't think people felt forced.

10:52No it's almost like what you do to yourself. Yes. Yes. Like I've got to do this. It's how your mind speaks to you. And then you kind of feel like you haven't taken care of yourself. Yes. You know then you have to have that moment of reflection later on. Yes. Actually. Which I always did. I think terribly today. I've grabbed something on my way home. Because it does happen when you're so... It does happen. I'll be guilty sometimes of still doing that now where I'm like, I must, I just want to complete this. And I'll think about lunch later on. But actually taking that time for you is healthy. I totally agree.

11:23We didn't realize it in some days. But that's just an example of the, I guess, the intensity and the fast pace that I was experiencing. but it kind of made you and challenged you to just work harder and and think more efficiently and productively and I don't know it actually I think it was for the better for me at that stage of life you know because I was so young once again and I was eager to just figure it out you know but it was challenging I'm not gonna lie it was very challenging it was the first time I'm living by myself. Yeah, because I had lived with my parents up until then, right before I moved.

12:05So I was figuring out living by myself, finding the apartment that met my needs, but also the right location in New York City, which is the whole thing. Exactly in the right budget. I wanted the right amount of time for commute. I wanted to find the right, you know, the friend circle in the city outside of work, but also in the office. So I was just figuring everything out. But ultimately, again, it just challenged me in better ways. Yeah. And I think that's what, like you say, at the time when you're finding your feet and you're figuring it all out, you don't realize it was exciting, but it's also challenging.

12:43But you don't realize how much those challenges better you until later. Like all of the things that you've learned that you can then apply into your now business or, you know, and everything else in between. It's crazy how formative those times can be. And I think for the young people who are listening, you know, it's all part of the process. And it is very normal to have ups and downs that can feel extreme. But you kind of need that, you know, in order to grow and mature and learn and become a better person. I really think you need to go through ups and downs, like real downs and failures and a ton of mistakes and, you know, hearts broken.

13:25And you just need to go through that and then you'll become better around it and just more, you know, things will come into perspective. Absolutely. And at the time, it might not feel as so. Exactly. At the time, it might feel like you're completely lost in it. But know that there's always, everything's temporary. Temporary. That's what I always say to my kids. That's a good way to say it. Even the good and the bad. So in the good, you've got to enjoy it so much because everything is temporary. But that gives you hope when it's bad, you know, that it's going to be short. It moves. Everything moves on.

13:52I love that. What was the light bulb moment that you had? Because you're really sort of flourishing, you know, whilst working at L 'Oreal. And some people might feel really kind of accomplished. And I'm sure that you did because you've achieved so much. you're kind of really held in high regard at that company. What was the light bulb moment for you that made you say, okay, I need to start my own business? Because whichever way you look at it, it's brave and it is a risk because you're doing so, so well, but you kind of know that you've got an itch that you need to scratch and you're not going to feel complete unless you do so.

14:37Yeah. But was there a moment that you said, ah okay this now is the time and I know what I want to do. There definitely was an aha moment so I will walk you through that. It was very clear actually it was like the bells were ringing. Like you read in the book yeah exactly it was such a you know sometimes you read like certain phrases in books and you're like really it sounds a little out there but yeah I actually had like bells ringing like just I could hear it and it was definitely a clear moment but just leading up to that, I always was curious about becoming an entrepreneur. You know, it was just something I had in the back of my mind.

15:15I didn't know how or why and when, you know, I didn't know how to approach it, but it just felt like a long-term dream. Because the sense of being your own boss and making your own decisions and not having to go through, you know, multiple layers of hierarchy and approvals and just being able to be a little bit speedy about things, whether it's product development or bringing things to market, I just thought might be better suited down the road. But at the same time, I actually really loved my job. If it wasn't for the idea that we had with my co-founder, I think I would have stayed at the company for as long as I could.

15:56Yeah, I just I actually genuinely loved product. I'm again, a beauty person through and through. So that just always gave me so much joy. But I love the strategy piece of it. I love the collaboration piece of things. I loved working with different functions and internal and external people and just coming up with a concept and bringing it to life. And it's just the whole process was so great. And L 'Oreal is a place where you have kind of the smartest people all in one place. And so my colleagues inspired me. My bosses inspired me. It was intense. It was busy. But it just drove me, you know. So I didn't really think that I would ever quit the job, to be honest.

16:41That's so interesting. Yeah, I was very happy, very happy. But my co-founder, Christine, she and I were friends since L 'Oreal Korea days. We had met in the Korea office in 2005. It's a long time ago. And so we were friends for a long time. I was transferred to the New York office. She had quit her job, met her husband, went to Columbia Business School. And then she joined the L 'Oreal New York office. She kind of went through different steps, but we actually ended up in the same company again. And everything was unplanned. And I really genuinely think things happen for a reason. Absolutely. Right.

17:23Yeah. And so she and I were always catching up after work, you know, just sharing what we're up to. And, you know, we were always sheet masking, by the way, just very naturally drinking wine at my apartment. See those beauty days. No, it was like how we bonded once again. Yeah. And she loved it. I loved it. It was just like we didn't even talk about it. We were just like sheet masking very organically together. but also we were talking about how some of the latest and greatest innovations out of Korea were so inspiring and innovative and that they were actually inspiring us on our current projects and future projects okay you know for what we were doing and at that time I was a product developer and you know part of what you have to do as a product developer is think about the next big thing for the next five, 10 years.

18:16You have to just constantly be on the lookout. And, and Korean skincare and Korean beauty overall was what we truly believed would be the next big thing, next big thing. And that was 2000. I think it was 2013. When we were, you know, catching up and talking about this topic. And then we had this moment of realization that And within that company that we were at, there were 10 ,000 employees just in the New York office. And we were the only two Korean Americans that were bilingual, bicultural, and had beauty backgrounds in both markets, Korea and the U.S. And it was just so unique to just the two of us, right?

19:03It's so powerful. Yeah, it was just so different that nobody else had. And we also had, you know, network and connections in Korea. We both were passionate about bringing in the newest and the greatest products and trying them for ourselves and sharing our experiences. And some of them were just so amazing, but they were not known at all in the U.S. or outside of Korea. And we realized that a lot of companies in Korea at that time were so creative but didn't know how to go outside of Korea. They just didn't have the resources or they just didn't know how. And we felt that it would actually be really cool.

19:44And it was an opportunity for us to become that bridge of, you know, helping the Korean companies to go global, starting with the U.S. at that time. Because we knew how to storytell and we knew, you know, the global consumer from our experience at L 'Oreal. and we could really help market the brand and the products to be positioned in ways that people could actually understand. Right. Because at that time, Korean skincare was there, but they were sold on, you know, different platforms that were all about just price points, discounts with no storytelling, no branding. It wasn't like the proposition that Korean beauty has now.

20:23And, you know, again, as Koreans, we also kind of felt this was our obligation of some sort. you know we wanted to change the course and we felt like it was kind of a shame that you know such amazing formulas were known as affordable you know 15 skincare bottles so we wanted to change that um so i don't know if you know this but we started the business as um a curation destination um which is so like it's so brilliant it was glow recipe.com it was the same name but just you know e-retailer for korean skincare and how we positioned ourselves a little different on the market was it was the first korean skincare focused on at that time it was harsh free but now we call it clean yes clean was not a term at that time harsh free was how we you know came up with it and we because we ourselves are so passionate about you know clean products we whenever we purchase a product we always flip to the back and look at the ingredient list that's where that was yeah and but that's also our background and we were trained to to look at products that way so um even when we were shopping in the the stores in seoul that's how we shopped our products so we would only buy for ourselves clean skincare products we were like wait why don't we just recommend what we love and like to you know the consumers yes so that's how it started that was a big aha moment between the two of us just kind of chatting and brainstorming we're like wait we could actually do it ourselves this yeah and we have similar backgrounds if we the two of us join forces it could be amazing and so you join forces and like you say at the time you didn't necessarily think that you were going to quit or leave your job because right you loved your job this felt like I suppose it felt like a side hustle well up front or here's the thing here's the thing that that's probably the most logical thing to do right but but um you know l 'oreal at that time for the positions that we held we could not i mean it was just very intense like we had to work like we were fully dedicated there was no time or even mental space to do anything else so either you're in it or you're not like it just was really black and white so we thought about it And then we followed up and talked about it a little bit more, did a little bit of research.

22:57And we said, you know what, if we really believe in this opportunity and this idea, we might as well just quit the job and figure it out. But it was very scary to even make that decision. That's so bright. And my parents were so against the idea. I mean, they didn't understand our business concept at that time. And, you know, I still remember my mom telling me, you have a dream job. This is what you wanted. like you're doing great what are you doing you know you're taking such a risk do you know how many people fail when they become entrepreneurs I mean this is not just my mom like I read I read about it a lot of people said the same thing um but you know when you feel that when you feel in your gut that this is really your calling and and then also in your eyes you this opportunity is so clear that you just know that if you work so hard and you apply all the learnings of your experiences and the training that I've gotten from L 'Oreal maybe we would get somewhere yes that's kind of the idea that we had and also the other thought actually this is maybe good advice for people that are kind of in this phase of should I do this or not should I quit because it's like you're sort of yeah yeah yeah it's a scary thing and you know again at that time I was single I had no health insurance no benefits I mean it was there was a lot of like practical things that I didn't even think through to be honest but um because I was so passionate about what I was already doing and I loved what I did my worst case scenario if if this didn't pan out was to go back right and you know so if you think about it it's not bad it's so true you know and that that actually really made me just confirm my thought and this adventure that I was willing to take with Christine.

24:52And we decided to give ourselves maybe a year max. Okay. Yeah, we actually, you know, I mean, we couldn't take too much of a risk in our lives. So we said, okay, within one year, we'll give it everything that we've got, like blood, tears and sweat, everything. And then let's see how this goes. And if it doesn't pick up at all, then maybe that would be a sign. And it wouldn't be so bad for us to go back to our jobs that we already love so much. So it's almost like you had a plan within the plan, like in a way. Yeah. But without a proper business plan, let me tell you that. But almost like a self plan, like, look, I've given up a lot here.

25:30And if this doesn't work out, let's put a year on it. What did that first year look like? You take the leap. And was it pretty instant to see, okay, we're onto something here? Or was that first year a challenge? A little bit of both. So I think the first three months, we spent all of our energy on one, obviously curating what we thought were the best products. And that takes a lot of pitching and cold calling and emailing, flying to Korea. I mean, it was a lot of traveling. But then we also needed to make sure that there was awareness about our brand. So those are the two things that we really focused on and not much else because that's just we needed to make sure like we had a moment for it to kick off um so I remember I mean we didn't sleep more than two three hours for the first six months I will say that too um or take any salary for the first year but um we I remember we put together our wish list of all the the press outlets the editors um at the time YouTube was a thing.

26:42I mean, it still is, but it was really massive and beauty. And so we put all the YouTubers' names that we wanted our products to be featured, influencers. We had a list of 600 people that we put together. And between Christine and I, we decided to divide and conquer and cold reach out to all 600 of them. And we gave ourselves two weeks to do that. It was pretty intense, but we wanted to make sure that the people that were getting our DMs or emails really understood that we were trying to customize the routine, the skincare routine or the products for their needs. Wow. You know, based on their skin type that they wrote about or the skin concern that they were dealing with.

27:26If somebody was talking about acne, we would cocktail and, you know, different products and make sure that it's tailored to their skin needs. And so I think people really appreciated that. That personal touch always is to me is like it elevates any pitch. But I can only imagine the amount of work. It was a lot. When you're looking at like 600 people. Yeah, it was a lot of work, no sleep. But it was very important. And it actually gave us a very strong sort of foundation in understanding the people that, you know, tell stories about this industry. You know, so it was a great study moment for us to research.

28:08But we had a pretty good response rate because I think we were so customized in our approach. And, you know, a lot of people appreciated that. So we got a great, you know, amount of responses. And one of them actually at the time was Refinery29. She didn't tell me that she was going to write about it. but there was one this is after three months from the start of the business um one day we started to see products selling and then selling out and then completely being wiped out like the entire site was just completely sold out in a matter of like two days it was insane and we didn't initially know what was going on but then we kind of looked around it was coming from refinery29.com but then you know that article got picked up by some of the other outlets and it's just now we call it going viral yes but it wasn't even a term back then and it just sort of started yeah exactly that's what was going on and so whoa like we didn't know what was going on we were not ready for it but that was actually a big moment within three months um that helped us break even right that was a big moment for us so that helped you make your decision when you reach the year milestone where you're like okay that helped but the bigger milestone was when we were featured on shark tank um this is what we need to talk about what we got because i love here we have dragon's den yes and obviously stateside familiar yeah and i love watching a few things i love watching the pictures i love watching dragons or sharks say certain things where you think when you watch it back and you're like this is now well it was 2015 so this will be a long time ago yeah 10 11 years ago yeah um and one of them said and we'll get all into this you watched it of course I've watched it one of them said almost like how do we know that like Korean beauty is going to be this trend is going to continue sort of thing how can we predict the future almost and it's kind of like wow I bet looking back if you were to play this in real time like it's yeah it's just you couldn't write it could you no no it was it was so tell me wild it's not really a traditional route of looking for investment but it's a huge opportunity and some people that we know that have seen oh you know that go on dragons or on shark tank for example they might not gain investment but they gain a hell of a lot of exposure yes and then in turn can come investment if it didn't work out so tell me what was the kind of feeling about appearing on shark attack whose idea was it and how did it come about i actually i think it was um both of our ideas i think christine had found it first but we were like i don't know if we feel comfortable being on national tv and you know i think the viewership at that time was nine million which is just wild just think back slightly scary way to get exactly and you know we see a lot of um edits where some people look like they don't know what they're talking about and it's not really sometimes it's just based on how things are edited yeah it's out of your control right it's really out of your control um so you know we were scared a little bit but like i said earlier we said we were giving ourselves a year and we would do everything and anything we could to, you know, make sure we're achieving our dreams.

31:46So Shark Tank, we thought, would actually help us get a little closer to our one-year goal, which was a million dollars. We had just this one big number that we put on our vision board and we thought this would really get us there. So we applied and we didn't know what to expect. So we went in and we pitched for you were given like literally 30 seconds and not more. So we pitched and we just kind of made a little mistake, you know, because we had our script. But, you know, we were so nervous. Yeah, of course. And you're not trained to be on TV or not trained. Yeah, at all. And so we walked out saying, oh, God, I don't know if this we did well.

32:29You know what? This is a long shot. Maybe we'll try again next year. And that's how exactly. So we kind of walked away kind of like comforting each other. you did great put it to bed yeah yeah yeah we were patting each other's shoulders we're like yeah you did great but you know let's try next year um and then we forgot about it right and then two months later we get a random call on our cell phone and um it's the producers of shark tank and um it's the producers of shark tank and they said congrats you're moving on to the next step It was so random. And we were like, next step of what? You know, we like completely erased it of our memory.

33:08They're like, Shark Tank? And we were like screaming in the middle of the street. Couldn't believe it. But long story short, we were grilled with a million questions. And thankfully, Christina and I were very prepared because we had our own set of Q &As that we practiced and, you know, like with each other. You did your homework. Yeah, we did our homework. We watched every single episode. and, you know, put together our anticipated, you know, Q &A and worked on those. So we were pretty prepared. But also it helped us, like, study, actually, our own brand and our business from A to Z, you know.

33:49We really just, there was a great opportunity just even for that sense. It's quite a good role play for, like, startups to do, isn't it? I think it is. I think, you know what, that's a great point. you just watch a few episodes and there are common questions that constantly get asked so just put that list together can you answer them exactly because it is a really good point like when we're all starting out it's like actually if I was pitching this where would be the weak spots and what do I it's quite a good do I know this yeah exactly I think I experienced cool sweat until that day and my lips were drying like I needed to drink water which was on the floor but they didn't really give me a second to bend down and pick up my water bottle because there were just questions being flown out our way and it was just and you really want this right that's the other thing you want this opportunity oh absolutely we were there for a reason you know we were so determined um but yeah I mean we tried our best I think it was the most exhilarating intense experience that I'll never forget it's just the most memorable um because of what what I explained about just like learning about our own selves but it was just a nice challenge you know as entrepreneurs and um to to also meet such incredible you know and remind me you you went in asking for 400 I'm trying to remember the number oh my god was it 450 450 or 465 something something around yeah it's that range and for a 10 stake yes and this is what was sort of ruffling feathers across the kind of panel that they were like you want a lot of money for a little percentage and they all kind of offered something different they all they all sort of offered to by one I believe to give you the funds but they wanted either 50 percent or they wanted well ultimately there were three sharks that offered but yet they all had different you know they wanted more um skin in the game ultimately and to your point they thought we were asking for too much um so what's interesting is when that happened this was caught on camera and actually made it to national tv but um christine and i started speaking in korean do you remember that oh my goodness and they look at each other they're like well they're speaking korean now so i guess we can't understand but it was because in any in those scenarios you actually just want to be able to talk to your girlfriend to be without letting them know that was exactly what we're saying in korean like what are we doing what should we do what do you think you know genius that's where i wish i was bilingual just to be able to switch yeah i love that it actually made it on tv um but we were i mean we wanted it so badly because of the mentorship we knew that we would potentially get and which is invaluable exactly yeah um so we cut we made a little compromise and we took a deal with Robert at that time.

36:49But yeah, it just, it was the best experience. And then, so the deal with Robert, he got it for 25%, I believe. Was it?

36:58Sarah Lee: I believe so. Actually, I don't remember the exact numbers. I think he asked for 30 or 40. And then we brought it down. And you got it down, girl. I was loving it. I'm like, that's it. You keep at it. You keep at it. And then I think one of you were like 22.5. He was like 25. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. We've got this. and I suppose when as I touched on before when embarking on something like that it's a great experience the whole lead up the whole process there are sort of there's investment on the table which is what you go there for but also there's that real exposure yeah puts eyes on you it was and what you do and that kind of marketing well you dread to think what if you was to put a number in front of that you know i mean that's when we realized the power of national tv and also you know in the u.s um we were getting a lot of traffic initially before we went on shark tank from you know the bi-coastal areas yeah but not necessarily the middle got it right but this tv exposure gave us reach to just regions that never heard of us before and it was just the most incredible thing because I still remember when it was airing um Christine and I and our both both of our husbands I believe at that time my husband was my fiance but anyway your mom was happy oh yes your mom was like you've taken a risk but I've got a husband on the way yes um we were sitting just a small group of us um in a small conference room and we had our laptops and because we didn't know what to expect you know when it aired we heard things that it can get crazy and things are sold out and all these things.

38:42So anyway, so we had our laptops open and I still remember the traffic chart looking like this and going up perpendicular. Wow. It was insane. And actually our site went down, which was really stressful. But again, it just tells you how much traffic we were getting for a good 10 minutes. Yeah, it was insane. We were getting a lot of emails from everywhere around the country just non-stop and we were trying to respond to all of them that twitter was a thing at that time so a lot of tweets were happening um it was something i've never experienced you know it just was wild and then you know we had like because they give you a two-week notice i believe before it airs right but all of our products were from korea so we had to like air freight a lot of them but we also didn't know how to project for the exact amount and so what how do you even yeah you know how do you even forecast like we might go viral in two weeks time we don't know how viral we might you have only so much you can invest yes so we were we just did the best we could with the cash flow that you can exactly and of course Everything sold out, everything, like almost instantly.

39:57And so we sent out like apology emails to our customers saying, please understand we're starting out. Yeah, please be patient. We'll take care of this. But also the funny thing is our warehouse partner, it was a smaller warehouse at the time. Right. They could not keep up with the demand. Yeah. So I remember us having to go down to Brooklyn where this warehouse was located and us two and a few other people that we hired online. We all went down and packed boxes and shipped them for 10 days straight. It was cold too. It was December. So I remember us having to wear like thick coats and layers and like being in this cold warehouse packing boxes ourselves.

40:43Because they couldn't keep up with the demand. They couldn't. We just needed like extra people, you know. So we went and we had to stop everything and that's all we did. But it was just the best feeling. We ended up not taking the investment. Yes, this is what I want to touch on. And we've seen that a lot in the UK on Dragon's Den. It kind of then falls out of bed after the show goes out. So you agree to the investment in the room and then what happens after the show airs? Yeah, after the show, there are follow-up calls with the teams and the relevant people. But like I said, what we were really hungry for was the mentorship and the partnership with the Shark.

41:25And we didn't think that that was really going to be the case based on the conversation that we had. And also, you know, obviously the investment itself would have been helpful, but we were very cash flow positive already at that time since the third month that we broke even. And again, you know, we weren't taking any salaries. We were really putting everything back in the business. So the cash flow was really, really profitable, healthy. So it wasn't like we needed that amount of cash immediately. It was really more about everything else that's invaluable, but not really tangible. And it just wasn't clear that that was going to be the case.

42:05Right. Okay. So we, you know, amicably decided it wasn't the right partnership. And so we held on to our business as full owners. We still are majority owners, but for as long as possible, actually. It was incredible. And it's just like divine timing. Like everything really does happen for a reason. And what you, you know, as we touched on before, what you gained from that was investment. Because really, when you actually think about it, even though you didn't take the cash investment, what you gained in terms of sales what that does for your revenue and awareness yes and that kind of middle America that you hadn't yet reached is kind of you got everything you needed out of that experience which is so so brilliant but also great as two women that are very and you can see that when watching that pitch and it actually ages really nicely for you guys you know sometimes you look back at thing things from years ago and you're like oh gosh I wouldn't have said that definitely cringe when I watch it no you shouldn't you shouldn't because before meeting you I watched that and I was like do you know what one thing that I really took from that is that you were so self-assured the pair of you like there are so many people that were folded at the kind of 40 % and are like it's a lot of money I'm just gonna say yes because I'm here and this is a great opportunity and they were really trying to talk you around so I kind of really felt that from you both but then to not accept it afterwards having time to sort of feel it out says a lot about you and the boundaries you have and the kind of belief in the business so I think that is is super inspiring in 2017 which for me is where it really just takes this hugely huge leap altogether um glow recipe then decides to break into its own product which was that always the goal it was always the goal um because that was our experience right like it was more direct actually to what we had done like product development concepting and go-to-market strategy and marketing and branding um and it was our dream to create our own brand I mean who wouldn't want to do that right it's just everybody's dream yeah yeah and and that was you know when I mentioned that you know I always wanted to become an entrepreneur that that's that was the vision of like just having our own brand our own namesake brand that you know we pour all of our soul into and having people love it would be like the dream the ultimate dream but um but I think what we did actually really helped because we were a curation website that was paired with education and content and marketing.

44:49So a lot of the people that were our customers or following us along our journey, I think they trusted the advice and the skincare knowledge that we had that came not only from our experience as professionals, but also from our upbringing and the heritage that we brought to the table. Because it was just really coming from some of the tips and tricks that I still use to this day are from my mom, that I learned from her from a very young age. And she learned those from her mom when she was younger. So, you know, they're pretty precious. And so I think those, you know, paired with the expertise and the knowledge really kind of helped create this amazing trust and credibility within our community.

45:32And so when we were ready to launch our own brand, which was in 2017, like you said, there was so much excitement. I mean, it was probably the most engaged moment ever from day one until that point on. And people genuinely just, I mean, I think every single customer probably bought our very first product. It was just insane because when we launched it, it sold out within a couple hours and we had a wait list of 10 ,000 people just on our website. That would help you with the forecasting. It was madness though. Let me tell you from operational perspective it was a lot of catching up but you know it was a good problem and we were just so honored that people would even spend the time to check us out but I think when you've been on such a journey with the brand and you trust them and you're like the trusted source of the go-to right this is what you should be ordering this is what's great for your skin and you kind of embody that and you say this is now what you should be buying of course we're going to trust you because you're who we've been taking our advice off from the past however long so it it makes perfect sense and it's actually like whether it was a sort of accident like a happy accident it's actually the perfect strategy when you think about it it really is the perfect strategy um glow recipe has had such an incredible journey and a particularly incredible journey with Sephora yes which um is just like the go-to destination isn't it for anything in this vein and I suppose for you from starting off in any way I suppose a brand doubts with a tiny slot to now be wanting be in one of their biggest skincare brands must feel like so so full circle yes why did you surreal still yeah I bet I bet why did you choose to stay exclusive with them oh very good question um well initially when we launched in Sephora US and now we're in Sephora UK which we're very happy about many other countries around the world which is again another pinch me moment but um we Sephora US was our dream.

47:56I mean, like you said, it's just a beauty destination. And, you know, personally, as a beauty enthusiast and fanatic and a shopper, like I was at Sephora every other day. You know what I mean? There was not a single day that I came out of that store without a product in my hands, right? It just was that place and my playground. So, you know, I could only imagine like how everybody else would be able to see our product in that amazing store. And there's just brand builders and incubators. We've seen small indie brands grow into big ones, you know, in that environment. And it was just so inspiring.

48:32And we wanted to be part of that story. So we, you know, obviously pitched the very first product, the watermelon product. At that time, it was a watermelon sleeping mask. And it was 2016 when we had this lab sample, because we were creating these formulas in our labs in Korea. And we had a lunch, casual lunch, with, at the time, the senior merchant. Like, I think she was the chief merchant officer, merchandising officer at Sephora. And I remember showing her the little lab sample pod with the texture inside. No packaging at all. Like, nothing was ready. But we had a little iPad with a couple of slides that capture the content and the concept of what the product and the brand was all about.

49:26And she asked a few questions about the philosophy, the vision. And right then she said, we need to launch Glow Recipe at Sephora. I've gone cold. I still get chills talking about it. It's so incredible. It was, I could not, I mean, I couldn't believe it. And I still think she's just, I don't understand how she had the eyes or the vision at that point of time because it was just a lab sample. But yeah, that's when it all really started. But because, you know, there was that belief in us from such an early stage, we worked with them in the kitchen. And you'll hear this a lot from Sephora brands.

50:11Like they like to go in the kitchen with the brands that they believe in and help to create, you know, some of the strategies that work within the world of Sephora together. Because we didn't really know. We didn't really have access to any data that they might have had and the landscape within the world of Sephora. So I think just the insight and the information and the knowledge that they had was so immensely helpful. And we were so grateful. because it was very generous to share that knowledge we were so grateful we still are and i think that gave us i mean it was just a no-brainer for us to go exclusive with them you know make sure we're really maximizing the partnership as much as possible um in not just the support that they would give us but the insights and again the information that they could provide that we didn't have access to was so invaluable because we were excited to learn more and you know take all of the learnings from those conversations and apply them to how we launched our products in sephora so that's that's how it started it was just such a great partnership yeah exactly and that's a key word isn't it it feels more like a partnership when you launch in that way rather than feeling like a place that you're entering that instantly feels quite competitive and trying to sort of embody it and sort of get under the hood a little bit where where you feel like it's there's a real togetherness there was a real togetherness and I did feel from the very beginning that I could always call them and ask questions and I never felt you know that they were unreachable they were just very open and that was it's just as an entrepreneur that's just starting out and has a very small brand that meant the world to us you know so and then you also think why dilute that message in you've got something so strong and you're like in the kitchen with them as you say that why why dilute that when yeah let's just go all in that was really our very clear thought process and and it it was for the best I still think it was for the best and it just it just gave us so much so many opportunities we learned so much not just how that world works but also like the ways of working with them and how you can really differentiate yourself because there's so much going on in that space but still you can always have your own niche and story absolutely that stands out and yeah it just it was the best partnership and I think it's a really good lesson I think that's really kind of key for people listening to here is actually sometimes I think brands focus at the start that we just need to go mass and we need to go everywhere and hit everybody at one time but actually you can be you know what's the saying where you say that you're kind of all to everyone but nothing to some you know it's sometimes it's better to yeah sort of really channel that exactly and we didn't want to stretch thin you know yeah when you're small you don't have a lot of resources yes and you know technically it's a little easier relatively speaking easier to launch than sustain right like so you want to make sure that there's longevity right like as soon as you launch, yes, you're going to have a little buzz, but what's after that?

53:25And you can't do it all. It's just with, I don't know how many people every brand has when they're starting to launch in these big retailers, but typically it's a pretty lean team, right? And so you also don't want to burn out your team. You want to make sure that you're being really strategic and thoughtful, and it takes time to build relationships and foster those and make sure really maximizing each and every moment every phone call every brainstorm and it just takes time and so I think being thoughtful and you know taking one step at a time but making sure you're doing bigger fewer things rather than small everything and stretching thin is really the right strategy and super super impactful before I sort of touch on a rocket round I want to touch a little bit on social and then talk about your role now and how that looks and how it might have changed you've just launched the dewy flush yes um with a 35 000 person wait list i mean the girlies want to be dewy and flushed but goodness gracious me that's insane i couldn't believe it either wow it was an insane number when a product blows up in that way what do you do internally do you kind of panic or do you celebrate or is it a little bit of everything it's a little bit of everything yeah let's be real here I don't think you're always going to be calm.

54:48But, you know, I think it really depends on what action you take when something does go buzzy or viral that will actually take that moment to a different level. Yeah. You know, rather than just kind of writing it out and hoping for the best, what are you going to do about it? It's a great opportunity. So do you go to that influencer or the group of people that are really making this buzzy and build relationships? I mean, first and foremost, you should be doing that. But secondly, what's next? So I think that's the type of conversation and brainstorm that we have internally immediately. So I have an example.

55:27This is a really fun one. we launched the the hue drops sun glow shade last year and it was a very first time that we launched it a tinted serum it's so good it's just the most beautiful formula it's basically dew drops which is our iconic best-selling serum that gives you you know treatment for the skin for hyperpigmentation but also it gives you an instant dewy glow it was a dream product that we launched and dew drops really took off so when people were using dew drops they were actually starting to mix their dew drops with their favorite bronzer or even you know dry bronzing powders to like sheer out the formula and give them they were doing that organically without they were doing that organically and they were asking us to create a product that just does that got it so we were hearing this demand and request from our community and so we decided to launch it and so last year and so that's that that was the the story of hue drops so when we when we ceded hue drops to some creators and you know our friendlies of the brand um one influencer and she's a friend of ours and she's incredible by the way um aisha shout out to aisha um she she she featured it but it was under embargo right so oh and it was like where this is going yeah yeah yeah it was it was a month out i mean you know if if if this was exposed maybe a week before we announced it then it would have been less of a panic if you will but it was a month out and we had a whole plan of how we wanted to cadence the the tease and you know the drop and all of that of the launch strategy but she featured it because she was genuinely so excited about this product she could not believe her eyes like you could even see she opened the box she's like wait what is this yeah and actually we sent six of those products in a just a brown box I think it might have been a mistake but that's how it was so she opened it and she applied it on her skin she was like I don't know if I'm supposed to be showing this but I love it I'm just gonna show it to you guys anyway so she she just did that She didn't read the embargo.

57:43She was like, girl, I love this. She was just genuinely excited. Yeah. And that went viral, completely viral. And so initially we, you know, huddled and internally we were discussing whether or not we should ask her to, I don't know, quietly take it down while it's early or, you know, we were just going back and forth. But then we started seeing comments of that post and people were so excited. I mean, it was just so positive. They were like, oh, my God, when is this launching? I want it right now. You know, all these comments. And so we pivoted. Pivot is such a key word for any entrepreneurial journey.

58:30But we decided to just let it flow and just see how it goes. It was a big decision, but we did that. And we also decided at the moment that we would actually send the same exact brown box with six of the same U-Trop's products, just the way it was sent to her, to some of the other creators. Wow. Immediately. That was a lot of investment, actually. So, again, it was a pivot.

58:59Sarah Lee: Yeah. And as a result, everybody that we sent it to did the same thing. They opened it up. They said, oh, my God, what is it? Like, same exact reaction. and they were so genuine you know what I mean like no one was it was just like it was a pure surprise to all of them because it was so quick like we literally overnight shipped it and so some of them hadn't even seen the content yeah um so that that is why it completely went to new heights so when you say you pivoted did you did you bring the whole launch date forward no we we kept the launch date because you can't sometimes change that yeah um it's you know it's You wasn't sat on the stock.

59:37With the retailers and yeah, that's just how it is. But the tease strategy completely changed. Yeah. Yeah. We had, we had, you know, planned it to be much later. But it's so impressive though that you could think that fast and say, hey, do you know what? Like you said, you could have said, can you take it down and do that for us next month? But actually that excitement and we all want something that we can't yet have. I know. Right. And that is the psychology. it creates the demand of that pre-order list and and the numbers that you get yeah and actually we we reached out to the creator and we we thanked her I mean I mean she looked stunning on that video so like that itself was amazing that she did that for the product um but we just thanked her for how it kind of rolled out actually it was for the best for everybody I want to talk through your kind of role and how it looks if it's changed at all since you first launched because often that's what we find, you know, they can kind of grow or pull back or it looks many different ways.

1:00:38And I've spoken to many co-founders and, you know, people that have co-found their business with friends, partners. And the roles are often quite different that they would have as two co-founders. So someone will be more kind of focused on back end where someone's really focused on creative or however that relationship looks. yeah you're christine and yourself your setup is actually quite unusual to everybody else i've spoke to and i absolutely love this that you both share the ceo role yes you're both co-ceos which co-founders and co-ceos which is unusual but it feels to me super empowering and super positive and it says a lot about your relationship how do you split things between you both and how important was it for you that you both kind of you echo that same responsibility?

1:01:35That's a good question and we get asked this question a lot. So I think the benefit of having similar backgrounds you know we actually work for the same company and we did marketing and branding that helps because when you're starting out you you know oftentimes the co-founder roles are very complementary and different, right? Like some I've seen, you know, somebody from finance background paired up with somebody from a marketing background, and they become co-founders. And that that type of co-founder partnership is a little more common to your point than how we have it arranged. But you know, what people don't maybe think about or realize is that when you have similar backgrounds, you don't have to educate each other.

1:02:23You're on the same wavelength and you don't like you speak the same exact language. So we can really speed up the whole process. And that is so valuable when you're starting out. And even today, I mean, I don't have a separate, like, one hour touch base meeting with her once a week. You know what I mean? Like, we don't have something that's so formal. We just pick up the phone. Like, I mean, usually I call her at 10pm at night. But we just have that friendship and this amazing partnership and the trust and we know each other's language so well at this point I mean we work we work with each other for a long time but even when we were starting out we had that similarity so we trusted each other from the get-go that you know we would think similarly in a lot of decisions that we had to make of course you know we're not the same people so we have different opinions but most of the time we're on the same exact page and we would just run right away we never had to convince each other and take you know hours or weeks to to to you know convince my thought or my point of view to somebody else that's equally important for the business to make one decision sometimes that actually alone can delay a lot of things or miss you can miss the boat just because of that because you're trying to agree yeah you're trying to agree and be on the same page um the other thing is you know we're both moms and um I'm a younger mom because my kid is two years old and she has a 13 year old age too is just a great age it's a great age but um in a way it really worked out well for us because she was a mom first right so we would really divide and conquer like actual division of traveling you know going to different opportunities meetings conferences speaking opportunities and just deviate up yeah and that gave us so much breathing room for us to actually stay like one of us would stay focused and you know run the office or the you know the team but the other would be traveling around and vice versa we would just take turns you know based on our circumstance or divide and conquer almost really divide and conquer and it still is that today that I think is one of the the secret sauce of how we just made it work and did not say no to a lot of opportunities when we didn't when we couldn't you know yes because it's the two of us so we really benefited from having the two of us having similar vision approach to things but we but of course you know we don't need to be in every single meeting together as two co-ceos we don't have to do everything you know the same way um so we do divide you know like going a little bit deeper in terms of like retailer partnerships or you know having more um touch points in the different departments across like the brand um but it's not like set in stone I would say yeah yeah and and uh for any big decision we make them all together like always that's never even a question and then you know for example if I'm getting an email for a big opportunity I would immediately cc her in the email thread and she would do the same and we trust each other that that's going to happen so there's no question again like there's no conversation about it because you're so together yeah you're so aligned that to me is really what makes a partnership strong and um and it's rare to have that strength too it's so so so special and so important to be able to do what you do and have built what you have um which is what we should touch on now and correct me because sometimes these numbers are old and they do look different but you've now built this into a 300 million dollar business yes yes you can correct me if that's wrong no I mean that's correct I mean and to be able to sit here and say yes that's correct that must feel like when you're thinking of the the pair of you that are stood in front of those sharks that are not knowing if your kind of pitch is going to make the tv show it's pretty damn impressive isn't it do you feel do you ever like take stock on how incredible that is and the journey that it's taken to get here because it's hard to do that when you're in the doing and you're you know that you're still on that journey.

1:06:51Yeah, you know, I think I can do a better job of, you know, taking those numbers and digesting and celebrating. I think I can do a better job of that. But yes, I definitely and I still cannot believe that we're here. And it is just the greatest feeling to know that what we've been so passionate about have been relevant and resonating with our community. And that's just the best sense of accomplishment. And I feel like we're still barely scratching the surface, to be honest. Which is the most exciting part. Yeah, because we've been doing this now for 10 years. But we still are not in so many markets around the globe.

1:07:36We still have so many ideas for new innovations. We still have a pretty lean team for the size that we are. are we we just have so much more that we want to accomplish but that's exactly as I said is so so exciting because what you've already built is phenomenal and the fact that you've not even scratched the surface yeah it's just just incredible would would it ever be a decision of yours to sell of you have you kind of spoke about that between the pair of you because it's often what founders talk about particularly when you see that growth and that growth happen And like you say, it's been 10 years in the making.

1:08:16So some people say it might take 10 years to become an overnight success, right? And people know, you know, it kind of might just be on everybody's radar in the last couple of years, but it's taken a long time in the build. Has that ever been something that's tempting to you? Or is it now? And if it was to be, what do you think would be non-negotiables for you? I think it would be great to find, you know, a partner that would understand our vision and philosophy well and help accelerate the growth and take us to places where we might not have the right resources or the expertise to get to. That I fully think is going to be important at some point of our growth.

1:09:03and at the same time both Christine and I feel still that we're barely scratching the surface and very passionate about our baby Glow Recipe my first baby actually like actual first baby and so the the plan and the goal is for us to you know be as involved as we currently are as much as possible as long as possible I love what I do genuinely I wake up like with a smile on just like excited about new ideas and new things that I want to to do um for the company and I just I don't know I want to continue yeah that's really the the gist of it it's still your baby it's still the baby and yeah I think it's a matter of how do I continue going forward because things do evolve so I think at some point we you know having a great partner would help us you know to reach new heights but you know it's also important to find the right partner so and exactly finding the partner that really understands the DNA of what it that baby that you've created absolutely and right I want to do our rocket round now which is essentially quick fire okay um and I ask all of our guests the same questions the first one is what do you believe are the non-negotiables for running a business uh vision point of difference yes and uh compelling story oh i love that storytelling is so important isn't it yeah one of the most important i suppose no exactly and if you're a product business incredible formula that is a non-negotiable yeah when did you first realize that you truly launched i think it's the the few things that we talked about earlier being on Shark Tank.

1:10:50Actually, that, but also there was a moment that was very emotional for me. I remember, I think it was after we were featured on Shark Tank. I remember reading an email from a 70-year-old woman from, I believe, Nevada. Hi. She emailed and she said, you know, I've never heard of Korean skincare before, but after watching your show, I purchased your products and I tried the routine that you recommended and it changed my skin but it also changed how my husband looks at me what oh my gosh that is like chilling that's when I knew that this is actually why it was validated you know I felt like we're doing the right thing yes and it felt so just I don't know it was just the most motivating thing to read and instantly you've become such an important part of somebody's life like that is absolutely incredible to touch someone in that way moment to remember yeah what's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed so um interestingly it's the same thing um i missed my face with our watermelon ultra fine mist yeah and you have to try it it is the most fine mist that smells divine and it's super hydrating so i like to wake up with hydration yeah refresh my face but also it helps to wake me up yeah um and then before I go to sleep I like to hydrate my skin because you can never have enough hydration so I always have my mist by the bedside and I carry it around with me it's just always with me oh that's a good one yeah I love that is there a piece of advice that you wish that you hadn't listened to yeah um there's a few how long have we got this is me no i i would say um maybe uh because you know i definitely have heard timing is everything when you're hot just like jump on the opportunity and seize seize maximize and say yes to as many things as possible but this kind of goes back to what we were talking about of not stretching thin right and doing the right thing one step at a time i truly believe there's no reason to rush things obviously speed is important to get you know things across the finish line for product development or you know the launches but just to go into a completely new market without the right or the proper research and the resources I don't think is a good idea so yeah so that's definitely one that I would say the considered approach yes what's a skill that you'd love to learn you know if you have advice on this I'd love this from you because you're a mom of three but I'm still trying to figure it out you know I've been a mom since two years ago first time mom and I'm trying to you know run a business travel everywhere I want to I want to be in all places all at the same time but I know I can't So I'm always trying to figure out what my priorities are while being present to my son.

1:14:06So, you know, I'd love to crack it, but I don't think I ever will. It's just part of, I guess, life. Yeah, 12 and a half years in this parenting thing. And I'm also wanting the same advice. But do you know what I really believe? And I think this happens. It's definitely for me happened over time. And I've probably in the last sort of two, three years accepted it. that actually there's this word that we all want and balance is a word that we use that we kind of want to be here. We want to be, you know, we love our business. It's our other baby and we want to be present there. We want to obviously be present with our real babies constantly.

1:14:42But I think I've become at peace with the fact that balance is a word that actually doesn't exist. That I fully agree with. Something has to give. and I think you kind of, we're not superhuman. You have to accept it. And I think that's what's been the hardest thing for me is accepting that I can't do everything every time. But now that I have, it's given me a whole different level of peace. Yeah. It's a lot, isn't it? That's great advice. It is a lot. We talk about collabs. We're seeing lots of brand on brand collabs. What would be a dream collab for you? It might be a celebrity. It might be an influencer or it could be a brand.

1:15:18What would be a collab for Glow Recipe that you'd be excited about? Yeah, I have so many ideas, but just to streamline a little bit, because this is so current, obviously we all loved The Summer I Turned Pretty, love, and, you know, it's going to become a movie, so I'd love to figure out a way to collaborate somehow. Yes, that would be amazing. Yeah, I just think so highly of the show, but also the author and the producer, Jenny Han, she's amazing. um I also love would love to partner with Starbucks you know it's just everywhere in the world and it's such a staple that would be a dream yeah um love Blank Street and some of the other brands as well um love your brand Cloud Chud love to partner with you so let's talk after this but yeah the list goes on yeah um and then lastly if you could choose one female figure as a mentor past or present who would that be I mean I have so many but if I had to choose one then it's definitely absolutely 100 % my mom oh she inspires me every single day but she really inspired me also to create this business and for me to be in the beauty industry because of the story that I was sharing with you that I just grew up watching her do her beauty routine and also having such shared rituals that forever inspires me but even for you know any big decisions that I have to make for life or business I actually still call her she's so wise and she would always give me a new perspective and she's just that person for me that's so incredible isn't it so so incredible that you have that and how from the start of the conversation we're talking about the hacks that your mom and your aunt have taught you that it's just they must be so proud of this like this must be just everything to them which is is just amazing and each guest I ask them to leave one piece of advice and almost like a tangible piece of advice that they could leave to a listener that's perhaps looking to sort of launch that startup in a similar vein to you if there is something that you think they need to know when embarking on a similar journey to yourself what would you say that is?

1:17:46There's so much that I would want to share because I've learned a lot firsthand so if you're about to start a business and you're unsure of yourself and you don't know if this is you know something you should do or not because I definitely had that phase to that group I would say just dream big and worry less oh that's good I would say that because you can figure it out you know there's always a way you can maybe it's a detour maybe you're not you know taking a shortcut, but that's okay, because it's just part of the process. And I would definitely, I wish someone told me that too, actually, when I started, because I was just like, I had so many thoughts in my mind.

1:18:36And also, if you're, if you've already started, but you're a young, you know, just a beginner entrepreneur, then I would say, you know, feel free to make mistakes you know when your business is smaller that is actually a great opportunity to to test and learn and make a lot of mistakes because the the liability is smaller than when you were bigger and um but but you can learn so much so don't be afraid to make a mistake because it will be worthwhile and you will learn so much from it and that itself is your strength yeah they say fail fail fast don't they fail fast yeah just get it and I truly believe in it yeah and then lastly for the for for those that are just you know still in this um phase of you know learning to become an entrepreneur or you're in this uh you know find your tribe I think that's a that's a big one too um there's so many people that have this mutual like the shared struggle and challenge that you have.

1:19:40You know, because as a founder, it can get lonely. And I'm very lucky that I have a co-founder. But even as two co-founders, it can get lonely. You know what I mean? Because everyone thinks like you are in the same situation as you. So to find people that are, you know, like-minded and are going through the same journey and are able to kind of open up and share some of the honest challenges together that itself and finding that support system is really powerful actually probably the most important thing that you might need to to just mentally keep yourself strong and go through the challenges and not feel like you're alone in this because there's there are a lot of people going through that and um just knowing that itself is is empowering sharing that vision it's so so important isn't it so important that's really good advice and i love the advice on worrying less because we're always taught to dream big but actually worrying less is so so important because that can then cripple sort of cripple you a little bit and then you lose sight of the dream because you're too in there oh what if what yeah and also knowing less actually might be a good thing that was definitely me I did not know what I was doing obviously I had the experience in the corporate world but I never had a business you know it's the first time becoming an entrepreneur So running a full like big company is a whole different learning experience.

1:21:02And, you know, I was never somebody that, you know, did accounting or, you know, was reading legal contracts daily or, you know, partner with a warehouse. I mean, there's so many aspects of the business that you will be the first. It'll be the first time experience for you. And it's normal. It's just that you'll learn so much. And then lastly, we talk about ladies who launch, but I'm always very interested in ladies who lunch. And I know that when you said that that sort of shift when you move into Korea to New York, that that kind of lunch hour was not a thing and you didn't break for lunch anymore.

1:21:40um is the lunch hour culture in your company that you kind of like to instill and if you are breaking for lunch where are you and what are you eating oh love this question I don't think anyone ever asked this um in like the hundreds of interviews I have very refreshing like what are you having for lunch we get inspired yeah so first of all we're fully remote as a company so So yeah, so that and that's a whole different topic of its own for another hour. But we do enforce a full hour of no meeting zone time from noon to 1pm. So, you know, people should be taking lunch breaks during that time. That was the whole idea behind it.

1:22:28Right. So it's interesting you ask that question because that was that was the reason for it. And but I live in Miami. So since we decided to go remote, I moved from New York to Miami with my family and my go to lunch. It's it's amazing. Miami is a great city. So many just the beauty world is growing there as well. But there's a few places. One of my favorites is Pura Vida in Miami. If you've not been, it's just it's a place where you can get like a lot of healthy options. And I love my matcha there. I love my salads and sandwiches. I mean, there's not one menu item that I like. Everything is really good.

1:23:13So, yeah, if you're visiting Miami, definitely try it out. OK, fine. So that's what you're so it's called sort of salad sandwich is your favorite kind of lunch. There's bowls with rice. Yeah, I mix it up. I eat everything. Okay, love it. I always ask, and some people sit here and say, it's either a real passion, because I'm quite like, we need to have lunch. But also I understand when you're a founder and you're a business owner, there's not always time for that lunch hour. So some people sit here and they're like, what's a lunch hour? I'm just sort of eating into my next meeting. So I do eat at my desk more.

1:23:45Yeah, I do eat my lunch during that time, but without the meeting. So I'm, you know, thinking through things or reading. Digesting. reading digesting but um I love having breakfast meetings with people that's whether it's the team or you know um external external you know journalists creators you know people in the in the business together it's just a great time to kick start the day yeah actually it's a great way to like inspire you first thing in the morning because there's always something to be inspired from when you meet somebody and you know have conversations so I love breakfast in-person meetings that's a good one I like that yeah um thank you so much I have absolutely loved finding out more about you and I honestly could have talked to you for hours your story is so so interesting thank you and so inspiring to see two females that have co-founded this incredible what is like a beast of a business now it's been a journey to hear how sort of deep rooted in you it is and it's clear to see so thank you so much for coming and having me iced coffee and an empty latte we've got through it now no we did there we go thanks for having me thank you so much i love that

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