Ep 66: Scaling, Pregnancy & Endometriosis: The Reality of Being Stef Williams

0:00Today I'm joined by Stef Williams, entrepreneur, founder and one of the original voices who helped define the wellness space as we know it today. From building a loyal audience in the early days of social media to launching her own platforms and businesses, Stef has navigated the transition from creator to founder. So let's find out where she's a lady who launched.

0:32I'm so pleased you're here. Same. I wish a thank you because this is like, you're really close now. Yeah, a couple weeks out. You're really close again. Do you know what? I was always like that and people would say to me, are you going to sit down? Are you going to start nesting? are you gonna and I think in my mind I didn't know really what nesting was but I was kind of cleaning out rooms and doing that kind of stuff but I was still very much working yeah but I felt like that sort of keeps me sane I kind of liked when there was lots going on in my body keeping that normality for me yeah no I actually agree I think as well you're kind of also just pre-warning the baby brain is probably gonna hit really hard it's good during this we can keep up but I feel like you're for me like it's a escape as well because I think when you're pregnant everyone asks you it's all consuming because there's so much change going on your body your mind like everything and so I think if I was gonna just like now wind down for the next two weeks I would probably drive myself a little bit mad I like to be busy and I know what you mean it becomes your whole personality doesn't it and of course you're growing a human it's going to but that's where that's all anybody wants to talk to you about and you're like no but I still yeah I'm me yeah I'm still like this and I still enjoy this exactly yeah I'm just a little bit slower than I used to yeah exactly um I'm reading here which is just wild really when you think about this you've been creating content online for nearly a decade yeah which yeah I know it's a scary place when we can talk in those numbers in life actually yeah but what I think is so special about your journey is that you started early in that kind of instagram fitness era and i think one thing when i think about you and your content and what you've managed to do is kind of grow in lots of different ways but stay relevant in a world that's always changing yeah so i think this is really no you're so welcome it's completely true i think very few creators have kind of navigated that transition successfully because it's a it's a difficult thing to kind of get right it's so fast paced you know we're now in a world where there's ai how did we know that was going to be part of our lives yeah so how do you think you've kind of evolved while staying true but also staying relevant to how times are moving yeah i think a massive thing is probably just trying to stay authentic to myself throughout all of it um and when i first started i mean yeah the fitness space it wasn't really anyone particularly doing what I was doing a couple American girls and I remember being like oh they're so hot but like how like give me the information and I think then I started doing my Instagram videos and workout videos um and I was training people like in the park and just literally just hustling in that way um which feels like a yeah a different a different world now um yeah i started training people and then i'd put those videos online and they started doing pretty well but then i think i got to a stage and a point because i did grow really quite fast right and what do you think it was about what you were doing that kind of had people super engaged i think it was the video right so it wasn't just image and there's a lot of just picture i think at the time okay and also actually giving value yeah which i think is still like now like even more important and so key because it's like okay you're giving a workout what's it for what can i do and i wanted to be like available for all types of clients because i had various clients come to me at the time whether you're a beginner you know you've been training and just been out of it for a while so i was kind of trying to tailor my videos for different people it wasn't necessarily like what i was doing it was like if you're this then you should try this and i think that's what people really liked and resonated with and they could save it and come back to it and it's free content yes um people love also I think you kind of like to feel that you're that someone's adding value and even if it is free content you still are investing your time into that person and like your screen time your viewing time you need to feel like you're getting something yeah right yeah 100 % and so yeah those videos then basically started doing well then I just continued to kind of really do that and then the pages started sharing me etc but i i love fitness and i've come from like a sporting background um i've always played sport and it is what i'm good at right and it's but it's also my escape and i think when you're just when you go into something with what you already are so obsessed with and i love like i love it but that's your work as well it then becomes a bit more tiring and it doesn't feel like the escape that it once did and the enjoyment i never ever thought of it like that yeah because you're right they say there's that old-fashioned saying isn't there that if you find something if you if you find a job doing something that you love you never have to work a day in your life right however yeah great if that isn't something that you kind of that was your kind of mental escape so a lot of us go to the gym or we work out or we better ourselves through exercise and that's our outlet and I always say that I keep that our pilates for me locked in because that's where I'm so in my body that I'm out of my mind yeah but for you you're so in your work yeah so I and of course I never thought about that when it comes to kind of a trainer or somebody in that vein that is so interesting yeah and then I I mean there was a point actually especially during lockdown um every workout i did for a year i didn't not film so i was constantly teaching so i actually didn't have one workout to myself yeah i think mentally i was like god i miss it like i just need a bit of like me time and so i mean going back i also you know i love my fashion beauty and everything so i wanted to bring that into it because i think if you're into your fitness you're probably going to be into 360 all of it it is it's just kind of you're gonna want to do you're the girl we all look at and we're like she's got the great gym gear no she looks 10 out of 10 she's done the skincare before she's strong like it is that like it's and i love i follow people for that kind of aspirational value like i look to that i love that yeah yeah for sure it is like a full picture isn't it and i feel that you really get a sense of your life and your lifestyle while doing that and then how you're now you know to this day how your kind of brands slot into that I think you kind of need the full picture yeah exactly and I think that's what for me I was I don't want to be narrowed and pushed into this corner where I'm only can do one thing yes I want to be able to branch out if I want because there's so many things that you can do off the back of you know health and fitness and wellness it's such a huge market and I didn't want to limit myself yeah um But at the time, I remember I stopped posting as many like workout videos and stuff and more other things that I was enjoying because it just gave me more like gave me more back for my workout videos and exercise as well.

7:45But it also just meant that, yeah, I could branch out into other things. Of course. But it did also mean that like my following stopped growing as fast. and I remember people at the time being like but your following isn't now growing as much and I was like so like the people that I have are my people and that's what's important and a community interesting approach because like you say a lot of people if that is your bread and butter and your bread and butter is online content it is about kind of if you know if somebody's doing a business model a business plan for you the mo is chasing the growth chasing that engagement chasing the following yeah i kind of love that that but i think that's so interesting especially with growth and with business because i think people expand so quickly sometimes and they're like growth here they'll do like mad sales but the quality of the customer isn't there so then they go and especially in the fitness industry yes the churn of users is so high because people get into fitness for so many different reasons and so it's so important to like have a quality customer and that community rather than just trying to like get people on a whim and they're just going to leave so at what point did you really notice that what you were doing was connecting so you you dropped that kind of first video people were engaging and this was still kind of you in the park oh my god so embarrassing how cringe we've got to dig these out yeah have to do like a side by side how it started how it's going yeah I will get them out it's quite sweet it's sweet yeah we'll leave it there how long before you really started to notice that momentum and notice that you were doing something that not everybody was doing I think oh my god I mean you asked me to look back 10 years um I think it almost happened in like six months it was that quick and in terms of then people wanting more not just like because one-off Instagram videos aren't going to get you very far people want structure and guide yes and so then I realized very quickly the demand was there for that um and then I'd also get you know a lot of things like what's your hair your skin routine and all these different things so I noticed quite quickly the demand was there and then that's when I did my first pdf right which is you know very old school I'm just this is taking this is really like a blast from past I remember joining a gym and a trainer giving me a pdf and there was kind of like a bit of nutrition on it yeah yeah yeah yeah wow some tricks yes that's right yeah i loved those yeah no i mean they were great at the time they were quite innovative yeah i was like wow look at me my pdf piece of paper and how many sort of people had access or how many people signed up for that pdf do you remember um i remember i don't remember exactly how many people i do remember it made like almost 300k very quickly what yeah it was like a real but the wow yeah that's incredible yeah i don't know i don't know talk about numbers talk about making me too comfortable no no i love this you got you no i know but i mean we all get freaked out about talking about it so british and so yeah yeah like I think I mean it was so long ago but that happened quickly but obviously when you're selling one guide yeah your customer is then limited because it's like they've got one got it then and then it's shareable as well with a pdf and everything like that but yes um I mean I actually use a lot of that money to build my current app god that is so incredible so hang on when you say it happened very quickly like give me like what's quickly I mean I started posting when I say I started posting though I was like non-stop I was walking to my clients and I was going through like hashtags liking people's things commenting on people things like non-stop on it and I was like really engaging so I think that was probably for about three months and then I was like picking up a little bit of following and then it was when other like Instagram things where they'd share like fitness girls or something started sharing me and they would get millions of views and then people would come to my page right and so then it really started to and back then if you went you know 50k views you would get a lot of people coming to your page i can imagine yeah and so yeah i think i was i can't even remember but it was it was quick quick growth but then i think it stayed steady i think and for me as well my mental health and i had endometriosis and And I just couldn't do what I was doing at the capacity.

12:26Did you feel a pressure? Because I think when you're known for one particular thing and your thing being fitness, and with fitness comes wellness and health, and you're an inspiration and it's aspirational to live like you, if you're not very well. Yeah. It's almost a conflicting message because, and I can kind of relate in a similar vein, you know having grieving and not having being in a great time of my life and going on tv and the red lights on and pretending like how are you and what's happening and there is that pressure to sometimes in our industry sometimes we call it the red light therapy because when it goes on you have to escape and you have to be there'll be three hours of live tv and you it's that it's left at the door because it does something to you where it has to be so some days it's really good for me and others I'm like gosh the thought of being a new human right now is yeah is exhausting what was did did you feel a pressure at that period of time yeah I definitely um yeah I definitely felt pressure I mean it's very different to live tv I mean I don't know how it's not because it's still it's still putting your armor on and getting on doing something when you don't feel yeah and no 100 % I think when I first had um was diagnosed with endometriosis I did feel a pressure because I couldn't work out like I was.

13:49I had like extreme tiredness. I was in pain every single day. I didn't really know what was going on. I had, my skin was bad. Like everything was just felt like it was in my body and my mind like falling apart. And then it's really hard to be mentally strong. Yes. I think as well, then people start to see like the changes in your body or things like that. And, you know, they're like, are you bulking? I'm like, no, I've never bulked unless it was completely accidental. But like, you know, I just think like I'm not, I'm not, I don't train that way either. This is not an intentional bulk. Yeah. And I think things like that and comments and people commenting on your body or the way you look.

14:31Your appearance. Your appearance does take, it is a lot to. And I suppose ironically, it's what you're selling at the same time. When it's all, you know, when, of course, you're selling health and fitness and a lifestyle. But what comes with that lifestyle is the girls that will look at you and be like visually what I aspire to be. And obviously that's not necessarily the right practice. And I'm like, I'm on the floor right now. You encourage healthy lifestyle. But yeah, that is the visual is a big part that comes with it. But then I after I had the diagnosis, I had the operation. I really took a more holistic approach to what I was doing.

15:06because I think there's so much noise in the fitness industry especially you know 10 12 years ago when I first came in and it's like you've got to have protein shakes you've got to have this lift really heavy and I was doing things that actually weren't serving my body for myself right I was doing it because I thought I should or had to or people would be like why aren't you lifting heavier because I think back then it was very bodybuilder and I was like that's not how like I don't want to be a bodybuilder I'm not trying to train like a bodybuilder I actually want to train because it makes me feel really good or etc so then after my operation I just think I took a lot more care into actually what made me feel good and what was that um so like a lot lower impact um not as heavy weights incorporated pilates into I mean yeah this is literally what eight nine years ago into my routine like more functional training um so it's like working out with intention yes rather than just like okay well I'm just gonna lift that because it's really heavy it's gonna be fine because I was so inflamed um yeah I was so inflamed and that's a massive part of my endometriosis as well um and when I started to shift my lifestyle like that like I was everything just started getting better for me again um and I think yeah it's so important to actually it's hard because when you say listen to your body to have the tools to be able to listen to your body yes yeah um and understand what that actually looks like and what works for you and what works following like you say the trends and being sucked up into everything else you really have to find your own rhythm don't you and like yeah tune into that and like you say it's a hard thing to do yeah but it does change your life it does once you do yeah how let's go back to that because you mentioned that obviously the pdf did incredibly you well yeah you then use that haven't spoken about that for like i know i love it i just that is so nostalgic to me i remember that so so well and i remember as you said doing the thing where i was the one in the friendship group that saw the training that got the pdf and then obviously it was like sent to my girlfriend so we could all do it together you know yeah um i was just the one that got the bill that so using that money wisely because obviously there are kind of i always think there are two types of people in this world there are people that are like great this has happened and let's live a bit hand to mouth let's have a great year or two and yeah spend that money and you know hot girl summer and all that i'm like a bit of a like money warrior right like especially when i was younger okay so i think and that's why i probably also didn't speak about it because i'm like oh i don't want to ever like be like oh yeah this is great because i'm like they're listening and also are they gonna take it are they gonna say yeah exactly and i'm like what's gonna happen I don't know if I was almost raised a little bit like that too, that like you mustn't talk about money, good or bad.

18:00Exactly. If it's good, people aren't going to like you because you're doing well. If it's bad, it's embarrassing. You know, there's that sort of negative connotation. But I do get that. I do think there is value in that because it's also like it's the least interesting really thing about you is like, I'm not going to meet you and go, oh, how much did you make today, Rochelle? Like, I don't know. It's not really that interesting. But I guess in like business terms and stuff, it is more now and it's way more widely spoken about um but yeah no I wasn't like you know going and buying and and yeah happy being crazy with it no a lot of content creators aspire to transition from that to you know to a founder and you know perhaps we're working for lots of other brands and creating content for them and realizing actually I've built a community now myself that I should build something for myself outside of what I'm doing online so how what kind of gave you that light bulb moment that you thought okay I there is something more in this because you were really one of the first in that space that I can think of in the UK that yeah sort of took the reins and said this is how I'm going to do this yeah I'm ultra competitive I think that comes from like my like sports and stuff as well so I think like that drive and also So I'm really dyslexic.

19:18I've had, like, from, you know, which I was diagnosed when I was really young, same with ADHD. So I think I've always been, like, especially in that generation in school, it was always like, oh, you know, poor you. What are you going to do? Like, because your only thing is, like, sports and with that uni and stuff, I was like, well, I don't know what I would want to study particularly. Almost like what you love isn't a career. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. so it's kind of yeah what what's your options or or like she struggles with that so and so I think that actually gives me so much more drive because it's kind of proving a point yes to like myself but also to others because it's like well watch me but that's always kind of been I think a massive driver for me and the competitiveness in me as well um which I think is probably why I was like like, no, let's, like, go for it.

20:13And I'm also very, like, I'm not too afraid of failing. And I think that's something that's probably fundamental to businesses because I failed. Yeah. You know, you're seeing, like, the... But I've tried things before and before the app, we were... I had a... I say we... Me and my husband are co-founders. Right. Yeah, yeah. Like, we? It was we. And he was also, as well, like, really supportive and believed in, like, me. and I think when someone sees a talent in you and also I think where you have been knocked, you kind of do need a little bit of someone to be like, no, no, you've got this. You need to be scooped up a little bit.

20:49Yeah, exactly. And so I feel like that massively helped me as well. I think just like thinking, I want it as well, that I want this product. Yes. Like where is it on the market? It's not there. Like if I want it, best believe that other people are definitely going to want it. And how did you like know where to start? Like, is that something that's like your husband's natural skill set? You're like, how did you like, for me, I see you as very front facing. I know, obviously, and myself too, like I'm a front facing person, but I've had to really understand the aspects of business as I've gone along.

21:25Like I've really learned that on the way. And I'd always say that I'm still learning, you know, that's something I didn't, it didn't ever think, I didn't think that was going to be in my realm of possibility. to be honest um so what what gave you the what or who gave you the confidence to be able to say okay we're gonna this is gonna be a business obviously you'd have confidence in what you bring and the side that you know that you're powerful at but to actually kind of get the ball rolling yeah i mean yeah i mean i'm the same it's like you're always learning now and people say that we have these businesses i'm like oh i know it still feels a bit accidental but yeah you're right but you have So just keep on like pushing through and every day and every week is like a new challenge.

22:08And I think as well at the start we had so many things that went wrong. And I'm a very emotionally led person. Like I feel of like someone I feel like is not right in the room. I'll really feed it. And actually that's not good with business. and I've been very emotional with things early on, which I'm not so much now, which I think is... It's gross, though. It's gross, yeah. Sometimes it's hard, but you have to just be very like, that's business, this is emotion, like, and separate. And then I think, yeah, to start with, I think it was just about finding, for the app, it was about finding... We knew we wanted to do it ourselves.

22:52Right. Because we'd had it, we'd partnered with people before and that had gone not how we wanted so like we'd had that experience where it had gone wrong in the respect of like we had the amazing community and everything like that but the people we partnered with it wasn't right so we were like okay we need to build out our own team and be able to do this ourselves um I think having I mean like most people most people's co-founders are people who have like sold and had businesses before and things like that I mean you know in hindsight like maybe would have been good. Like me and my husband were navigating it as we're doing it.

23:28Yeah. And you're learning on the job, but now it's like we've had 10 years of experience. So we know it. Yes, yes. And I think that's super, super valuable. But I think, yeah, getting the right team around you is also fundamental. I'm not trying to expand too quickly and making sure the people that you do have, like now with WeGlow, we have, i mean so many of the team have been there since like day dot that's so incredible which i think is six years down the line which i think like says so much because also they're passionate and they love what we're doing and what we're trying to achieve and i think that's also really fundamental um into like succeeding as having the right people around you who have your back believing you and understand the mission and on it with you because you know and i've had similar experiences that I'm I'm so lucky with the team that we've had but the people that maybe aren't around now perhaps what you know the gelling was you know wasn't perhaps there because there wasn't really understanding the end goal and that is that's basically what we're all sort of striving towards isn't it there's always an end goal there's always a mission there's always moving which is always moving and sometimes can change it's not like linear is it the process so yeah it is it is really interesting but i how do you find like the idea of building a team was that did that feel quite scary to you yes it is definitely hard and it comes with challenges um and i think something that we've learned and along the way i've spoken to so so many founders people who have bought sold businesses and all done it themselves and i think one big thing that's um

25:08Stef Williams: come out is hire slow fire fast and actually that is a massive learning in terms of building a team um because yeah the right people around you counts for so so much and you know when it's not working you do your gut you just you just know but then you're like well what if i just a little bit of this it's that's when you really have to remember that you're leading and steering the ship because at some point you're like oh gosh but i just let's give her another chance because I'm not sure this is. Yeah. And you can live in that world for a little too long. Yeah, exactly. And then that becomes the focus.

25:43And then you're like, actually, that probably should have happened a year ago, but it didn't. So I think that's probably. That's good advice. High, slow, fire, fast. Yeah. It sounds quite brutal. I just said that. It sounds super brutal. It does, but it's not. I get it. And it's better for the person involved. Yes. And it's the same when we say fail fast, right? Like you have to be able to, if something isn't working, if something isn't performing in the way that you'd hoped or thought or dreamt like just move quickly yeah we're allowed to fail it happens we all do my friends moving in with plan b exactly exactly my friend's moving in with a guy and it's like super fast i'm like yeah but you're at we're at the age now i'm like if it doesn't work it's better like do it now live with them now yeah let's not waste any more of our life yeah yeah rather than wait two years i'm like this is the right time it's like then if you don't work together and you're not living well then it's like well there we go there we go we tried we tried a crash course and it wasn't for me um do you think your relationship with social media has sort of changed emotionally as well as kind of being strategic because like you say you start off in the fitness space yeah solely yeah then you kind of you know you you go on trips with beauty brands and you're kind of sharing your lifestyle and that content and that was I suppose after speaking to you predominantly because you wanted to change it a little bit so that fitness didn't become everything everything because you wasn't enjoying it in the same way and getting the benefit for yourself out of it yeah so do you think like was that kind of an intentional decision to kind of change the way you looked at obviously you've now got the businesses attached to it but as your outlook on social media changed yeah I think I mean I've been doing it for 10 years I know I'm not about to have a break because I'm having a baby but like I am going to try and take like a little bit of time and I'm just looking forward to having a break from work because I think for me like the creative side of social media I love and that's where I thrive that's where I do well with the businesses as well like ideas and that is like my path but I do feel like the burnout and just the consumption and what's it it has yeah it has changed I think I love the community that we've built and the businesses and I think that's something that's that's so special yeah um but yeah social media it is it is it is tricky also i think from my perspective as well i wanted to have other avenues like the beauty because not everyone wants to just consume your workouts yes so i think there's also that nice part which people also like seeing it's a part it's your life yeah you're not of course fitness is huge for you but you're not just fitness yeah exactly it is a hard place to navigate sometimes i think especially when i mean i'm so lucky i literally hardly get any negativity but i also think that's because i don't really um indulge myself in it if someone says something yeah if someone says something nasty i'll reply to the nice people not the nasty people because i think and then as soon as you do though reply to that horrible comment it breeds it it breeds they're like okay we've got her we can comment nasty things and she's gonna consume in that and you know a lot of people have said like you know you've got to be a bit controversial now you have to kind of you know and I'm like I'm not a reality show like I actually don't want it for like my mental health like I don't want to consume negativity and there's so much positivity out there and I think we're so lucky um with my platform everyone even with when I got pregnant I was like oh god I'm like worried that people are gonna you know it's gonna be boring or they're not going to want to support and stuff and everyone's been so unbelievably lovely um and I'm just like oh that's just so nice like but you just have those few weirdos who like unfortunately do just kind of you know nip away but there's so much positivity that it's and you've created such a positive space you you have you can really sense that when I think of you I think of two businesses that sit alongside each other so beautifully, but also they're completely different.

30:12So having a kind of service-based business and a product-based business, how have you found the differences? And was that a kind of real challenge? So if you're going to start a business, do subscription-based. And, yeah, don't do product. Why? Tell me everything. why is your why is that your feeling do you know what it is as well i think because with the businesses is me and my husband and you know we've tried to navigate it from young and we've learned so much along the way um but i think yeah with the product with the activewear for me i was like so when i started i was like this is like my calling i loved it the design I've spent so much time into looking at you know all the different brand materials and just everything and anything designing it and the styles and then finding styles that weren't out there that other girls were then obsessed with I think that really I loved it because it was like we're all you know I'm loving something you're loving it and that was just like an extra branch off of what the app already was it makes perfect sense it does yeah but we did partner with um people who um had a lot of experience in that field yeah they had experience in that field and they were doing it for multiple brands so we were still very much in it but they would be like you know in contact with the the factories um you know all of that kind of thing but actually then it became you know a lot of chasing we were chasing them like what's happening here right anyway long story short they went into liquidation right um with about like 300k of our revenue um make it lose it make it lose it um so that was massive hit and i think at the time as well it's all self-funded like never raised um or anything like that and so i think having that hit was just such a huge hit and then it was just me and my husband one other girl for like a year and a half and we had product but we weren't able to buy any new products because cash flow got tied up our cash flow had been destroyed um and they just you know liquidation just wipe your hands with it c 'est la vie and they're and they're off it's so horrible yeah hear these stories because it happens way more often than people actually care to discuss right because it's probably triggering too there's also yeah there's also something in that but it's annoying because we'd we'd almost like learn our lesson by with we glow we started it it was we built the team around us and it was doing amazing so we've done that so we knew that that was working but also you only have so much capacity to try and do that.

33:12Yeah, and also the skill set is a very different skill set product. And to try and do that. A subscription. Yeah, and to try and then do that again, build your complete own team and be the founder and do it all like you were. It's just not possible. Yes. So that's why we wanted the agency, but then actually created more work for ourselves

33:36and yeah the money flow and everything so then it was just literally three of us for a year and a half the product we had we had to we were going to do one drop they had to split that into I think 12 different drops right which actually was it did really well because people loved like the smaller drops so we learned something there that actually that people don't want don't give them too much yeah it's quite overwhelming a lot of options over overwhelming but we kind of had to build back up and we have built back up to a place where um yeah we're you know able to you know funnel back the money into the business and everything like that again but that really hit me yeah and I think the passion and yeah I just it's it's hard to kind of get that really back yeah do you know what when when you're hit with such a blow and you feel like you're firefighting and it's something beyond your control but it's still your you know you can still partner with a supplier or a manufacturer however that looks an agency but it's still the bones of you it's your designs it's your creation it's your brainchild but then for it to feel that way but also to have a kind of another party in on that that can make the thing up in flames overnight there's a really weird kind of push and pull and like a control a control thing too because particularly if you've started yourself you've not funded you've built this team together you're kind of across everything and that's kind of been a conscious effort you've partnered with people for the right reasons because of course you need a different skill set yeah however not not being able to operate in the same way i think it's kind And then it becomes a little bit triggering for a while.

35:21Yeah. And it becomes, let's just not talk about that for now. We'll concentrate on where you go because I just can't even go there. Exactly. And then you lose the spark a little bit. Yeah, which I think I definitely still have in me, but I need someone else with the spark too. Yeah. I think as well. I think we're looking at the moment to potentially partner with some people who have a team, but it's more about we want to do that and then potentially raise to then hire correctly. Because I think actually that is what is key, is your hiring and, you know, who's doing what and where. And that will give you a new outlook, a different mindset.

35:58Even like time off. I say time off, you know, because you're going off to have a baby. But like having a bit of a different headspace for a second, it might bring a new part of you to kind of kickstart it. Not that it needs a kickstart, but for you mentally and how you approach it. Yeah, exactly. I think just to see see what happens because yeah I also think like if it comes a point where if you're not like you're just hitting your head against the wall yes too much yes and I'm gonna have other priorities and things and so that you know there's other things I'm really passionate about I mean I'm nuts but I'm like there's so many businesses and ideas that I have and that could branch off the back of like We Glow or Cephy um but I just think yeah I think taking a bit of time step back reassessing yeah i think will really help and i also think like you that you can get like a i've had a sort of a period of time where i've had that kind of like creative fatigue and like decision fatigue and i just need to park something for a minute and i'm still super passionate about this but i'm gonna make the wrong decisions right now because i'm not really thinking of it i'm thinking i need to just get this done it feels a bit like i'm ticking a box yeah whereas that isn't what this is about i'm so in i just need a second yes and it does happen because we're all human like we can't and particularly when there's been a bit of a blow like that it's even having the conversation about it can be really triggering i know i can't right now just talk to me about something else you know yeah no but i think it's good to talk about and again it's there's been so many learnings along the way with like things that have gone wrong and people are like oh wouldn't you want it have just gone perfectly I'm like no because like I wouldn't be as strong resilient and like as good businesswomen as I am now if those hadn't have happened um but you know if we could just stop but we've had enough what do you like what would you say because when I first asked you that you kind of said in Jess like launch a subscription-based business and not product-based business yeah what do you love about we glow and that subscription-based model because it is a kind of it's always a really interesting one like i've got friends that have got a subscription-based business and for me it's so interesting and i kind of i really sort of i'm envious of the way that you can it can be wherever you are as long as you've done it in the right way so what do you love the most about a subscription model do you think yeah i think we have our whole team is um work remotely we did at one point have like an office and stuff but actually like it's not necessary so you can work wherever and i think it's also having that i think going back on what i said earlier it's having that security each month of like you're kind of knowing what the business is getting so that you know that what then the business can use for external things there's not so much of like the there's not there's not as many things that can go wrong right touch wood um as there are with like product base yeah um 100 and i think also the fact that with we glow that i'm able to do what i think i'm personally best at which is being a trainer and training people um and like genuinely helping women like globally i think for me that's just like is the drive and that is actually what makes me tick and it gives me like purpose and so I think I'm very like I need like people and that feedback loop as a person and so having that feedback loop with the community that you know they're thriving now they've done this like so many girls I've become a personal trainer now I've become a Pilates instructor my life has change like it that you can't buy yes and I just think having that community is um yeah why I love it so much does it give you a level of security knowing that you've got those subscribers and you've got that community or is it something that you kind of is a conscious driver that you're like okay more subscribers more pushing like how does how does that side of it look yeah I see everyone has kpis and so on and so yeah of course so i think touching on like what i said earlier as well that the churn and fitness apps are so huge um and ours is really really small um so the churn of users that like come in come out i think the industry standard is about like you know 15 which is where we had been set before and now the drop off right the drop off okay um and that's still very good and we're now at like five six percent so i think even just like things like that and that's all down to like you know our head of products our development team you know our customer service and how in it they all are as well and they want the best for the app they want to produce the best product um and so i think everyone is all just like aiming to the same goal yes um and i just love seeing the app evolve how the community and how we want it yes um like it's so aesthetically pleasing like a lot of girls have um apps but it's a framework so it's not actually that's interesting yeah so it's kind of like you're plugged into a framework or something else got you whereas ours is very much like we have our own developers and it's like was a baby six years ago and now it's like a very developed app which is very advanced and we can do so much with it um which i think is so exciting and i mean the updates and things that people get from it as well it can be they they feel like it's instant it's definitely not they're like wow look at this new thing and they're like we've just been yeah like you know but I think that gratification as well from the users you can see updates and you know we're constantly trying to yeah just give them the best um service and because it's an app you can and I think even like from you know for me I'm like I'm obsessed with like what colorways we're using what fonts we're using how to make it the best user journey you're bringing that aesthetic so like it's a whole experience yeah but that's down to yeah our incredible team I mean I honestly I love I just love the idea of like that model I think it's so so interesting yeah I'm always like obsessed with picking brains of people that have got a subscription model because it's so different to me I'm all I'm like you know surely a product-based business yeah I know I'm like don't do products so I love it no I do but we're actually looking at doing subscription as part of our product you know when you run out it's a slightly different thing but it's like when you're empties and stuff I'm reminding if we look at a typical bottle and how they would use it and how long it lasts on a shelf then we'll i think especially as like mums yeah it's just a little reminder just a little reminder like you know your favorite body oil which by the way i've used it's so nice but you know i don't want to if i run out of something sometimes that's it you just exactly that so it's actually so nice to be able to just remind you're like oh you're probably just about to run out or like it's arrived at my door like three months later because that's when that's and then i'm like oh exactly that exactly that it honestly it fascinates me what would you say is the kind of goal for the future when it comes to we glow like what is there kind of like you said you're not what you're doing is kind of consistently bespoking this service and this model and it isn't a framework this is you building out your kind of dream app dream community and so on and so forth but what is kind of like is there like what's the north star for you um so something that like i've really wanted when we started something we have built out and are continuing to build out is having um various training styles within the app so that women actually have the tools and the options all there for them so we have six different trainers you You know, we have meditation, yoga, bar, Pilates, strength training here.

44:21And, you know, so you can choose from a lot within. Obviously, you have our tailored guides and stuff as well. And something that's really big for me and the team is women's health. I think for my personal journey, having had endometriosis and fibroids, having to have operations, really having to take a lot more of a holistic approach. and also seeing how many other women suffer from it because when I first said that I had endometriosis I didn't tell anyone until the day before I went into the operation because I was just like oh my god it's so embarrassing or like this is weird I'm alone I'm the only one but it's you know so many or is this niche is there any point is there yeah exactly but actually and the the lifestyle changes will not only help you if you if you do have women's health problems but just as a woman understanding your hormones um so we're massively building out our like menstrual cycle um so that women can kind of like plug in um their data um oh incredible yeah um and also just having the option so for example like if you're in your like follicular phase okay so these are the workouts we recommend but i again i think it's done in a very doing it in a smart way where it's like if you feel good yeah you feel good like you know what i mean like you don't need to be like oh my god i'm in this phase therefore i should just that's it for the day i think it's like always like with advice and stuff taking it with a pinch of salt and actually understanding yes if this speaks to you if it speaks to you yeah and that's something we have in the app i want to build out more is like the education section that we have a massive learn section um where we're actually educating the user to why they're choosing those guides or like why they're strength training or why we might incorporate pilates here um yeah so i think it's just to like continue that and just to make it like you know globally known and we're on that route and it just feels like really exciting but i'm not a very I'm like more I'm not very good at my five year you're like quite reactive it's quite nice to kind of live in that present though because I think sometimes I'm ahead and I'm almost never here because I'm always thinking about that's the other thing with product right like we've got next year and beyond signed off so you're kind of in my head we've done the October launch and it's a weird situation because it's signed off when we have it we're now just sat on that and now we're thinking for NPE for the next year So it is a kind of, it's nice to be present in real time.

46:57What does your day-to-day role look like? Like, what do you, obviously, you're front facing. Yeah. But what do you do day-to-day? Like, what's your kind of role in and around the business? Yeah. You know, stuff that we don't see. Yeah, I guess there's a lot of meetings. Which I think people, but then also I don't really document that because I'm like, well, what do you want to see me in front of a laptop? I did that today. my team were in and they did my hair and makeup and they were like well i've not seen you forever i was like i've been just been at the i've been a warehouse girly for a while like i've just yeah anything to get me ready for i've not worn makeup in weeks yeah it's funny isn't it um yeah i think yeah we have obviously like weekly check-ins with the team um depending on like what we're launching yeah what's going on because you know we have various different launches for our different trainers at the moment it's a lot of um prep because i've just done a um prenatal guide so like at the moment i'm i mean i've been sick i'm trying to like this morning i've been filming for in app right so like on demand workouts um and then just like going in and making sure that that's all like passed over for the team to be able to input into the app correctly right everything's named labeled etc um check-ins like with my pa like requests from the team what's needed from me um i don't know i feel like i'm just constantly being a bit of a yo-yo between everything yeah a little bit i think that's kind of i think at the start you're kind of the it's really hard to let go of control but then it becomes you still have access to everything you still know what's going on but it's just very like some of the stuff is very top line um which i think is how it like you know in time should be with different sectors of the business you can't be micromanaging everybody and that isn't you know no one wants to be micromanaged particularly when it's something that isn't your strength exactly i'm like we you're i'm you're with me for a reason because you're great at that i'm not going to pretend i know better because i exactly exactly so i think there's that as well um and then yeah i think a lot of it is just kind of yeah just like touch-ins with the team um and then obviously i've got a lot of like editing to do um you know like for example at the moment like trial reels are such a thing so i'm like making loads and loads of trial reels to be able to like push out every single day so like banking like hundreds of pieces of content gosh um and then also edit trying to edit and like create my own um content sheets yeah it's kind of yeah it is i think i've i feel yeah i'm i'm what i've actually discussed with my husband recently so i've got a numb bum now go on um well i've discussed with my husband recently and stuff as well he's like you're a brand i think i never treat myself particularly like a brand enough maybe um because i'm too focused on the other things going on and my other brands and actually like i think i'm we're now at the stage it's i need to build out a little bit more of a team around me to help me do what i do best yes um which is obviously like such a privileged position to be in but like we've worked really hard to try and get to that point so it's three brands it's not you've got your two businesses but you've and actually really my brand is probably i think it sounds really weird saying but like the most important yeah because like we get so many people coming through it and stuff so because of you yeah so if i'm not able to like show up at my best or be able to work at the best capacity i can then that's gonna have an effect on everything else you do of course so i think it's just kind of finding that it's realizing that when you don't start off in that vein and you know by thinking i'm a brat you know when you when you were doing those workouts in the park you wasn't thinking i'm a brat baby like so it's a really hard adjustment quickly feel me so no one's no one's gonna hide behind the tree and do a squat don't there's actually a video i'll I'm literally by a massive tree swatting.

51:12Like it's not. We'll use that in the trailer. Yeah, perfect. I want to ask before we move on to our rocket round, I want to ask if obviously this is, you know, particularly with We Glow and how it started and how, and Sefi too, but the kind of nature of the business that you have built and formed. Do you ever have any plans to kind of, not be a part of it or take a back seat when it comes to perhaps being front-facing or like to ever exit is there any is that a conversation that you have yes yeah and that's what we've been building up over the last few years especially in terms of like not it being so reliant on me yeah I want people to just it'd be like a standalone business I have no idea who I am I'm just their trainer on the app and they enjoy doing that.

52:07And that's kind of, you know, that is something that's really important for I think any business to not be so reliant on one thing, one person, which we're definitely moving away from. It's all been organic growth for us, which is incredible. Yeah, like we've never had funding. And yeah, it's grown 50 % each year. and now it's growing even more and we've only just started doing ads which I think is making a massive difference as well because but now we have our product which is so cemented in what it is but then when people come again that's why the churn rate is so low like it's ready rather than trying to like rush into that when anyone has that in their sort of forefront of their mind or thinks that could be the future it's you know it takes a lot of time to get a business healthy and ready like behind the scenes yeah to be able to be in a position to sell yeah we're working towards it i don't know exactly when we've kind of said that maybe like it probably will be like maybe part of the business yeah um maybe not all of it and i think especially for me like i said earlier like i actually do love it so much and i can't see myself not wanting to continue to be a part of it um especially like as a trainer and i just that that for me is like my and also i think there's such a kind of it's it really shows obviously there's growth and there's being up 50 each year and so on and so forth but for you as a person to know that what you are building isn't reliant on you yeah the pressure that growth it that sits like incredibly well with you because you're like okay we've built something we've built something that is actually incredible with or without me and i will love this forever exactly and i tend to be a part of it forever but actually the product is so fantastic yeah that it doesn't need me going guys check out my app every day exactly yeah exactly and i think that actually does mentally make such a difference even now you know if i got pregnant maybe four years ago i'd be like oh my god yes what are we gonna do because it's so reliant on me yeah that i would be like oh like scrambling and be thinking like what am i gonna announce it when am i gonna be off yeah pregnancy is so niche and like you know to launch a like prenatal guide is lovely but like it's not for everyone it's not every subscriber is it exactly and it's an it's a new market for sure um but i think yeah now it's kind of like we're at a place where it's just carries on and actually since you know this year we've had our most growth and i'm pregnant and i'm like this is incredible guys like yes you know i think that is down to the product and the team and adding something that you might not have considered without without being pregnant which is yeah yeah so yeah we definitely have plans you can be creative when everything isn't so reliant on you and that's what you bring that's so incredible right so it kind of goes full circle there's a time where you're so in the weeds yeah but then to have that growth and then be able to be able to go oh i can be creative i can think of great ideas and because you're not thinking about if everyone's received the app in the right way yeah you know yeah exactly no it's so true i think that's something that i'm probably yeah I can like look forward to getting back into um but yeah I think in time do you feel a kind of element of pressure I'm just going to put this back on myself because I really felt this way when I was in the Saturdays and I had a baby I put myself under so much pressure to get back to work because I felt like when you're a band it's always really obvious when one person's missing and i remember we would we had a single coming out and i sung lead on it and i just remember going which single was it it was it was called gentlemen it was just after what about us yeah and i was pregnant all through what about us and i remember performing and singing my heart when i look at it i'm like girl you shouldn't have laid down it's like it's given she might go into labor at any point yeah but i actually think i love it i think it's like insane yeah like mentally strong and just showing up like yeah yeah but I think on the flip side I definitely went back way too soon like sooner than I was ready for and it wasn't necessarily a pressure that anyone else put on me as such it was more that I put pressure on myself to not let anyone down not you know make sure I've almost felt like being pregnant was almost like having a hangover you know when you've got a hangover and you go into work and you're like it's fine I'm absolutely dying but no one's gonna know because it's super unprofessional and no one's gonna give me any sympathy because at the end of the day I've got a hangover yeah I really felt like that with pregnancy like I've chosen to be pregnant just get on with it do the performance that I really that is for me really how it was and I remember just thinking don't worry I'll be back I'll make sure I'm back it was way too I remember doing a performance on breakfast television with my my boobs leaking and I was just like I'm gonna do it and I felt like I didn't want to let anybody down and then the kind of i was 23 as well when i was pregnant with alaya so i was super young and i just felt like that's what i had to do just show up and get up and get on with it yeah um but then by the time i i mean it was polar opposite to then i fell pregnant with blake a month before lockdown i was like this is fantastic yeah literally everyone's off at once yeah yeah brilliant yeah um no one knows i don't have to tell anyone so i haven't got to see anyone I've not got to be on telly I was just like hibernating um so do you feel any pressure or do you feel like you've almost with like subconsciously fruit of future proof the app because there's other trainers and other elements to it now but there's not so much pressure for you to get back to fitness and get back to feeling your best yeah I think I mean first of all that sounds so stressful i mean i didn't realize it at the time but when i look back i just want to give myself a hug a bit you know yeah like 23 year old girl doing all of that i thought i knew it all i've got this i mean it's amazing but also yeah the the pressure um yeah is insane i think no i definitely do feel very similar i think to you in terms of feeling like you have to show up and in terms of obviously how we've done the businesses now like i you know there isn't as much pressure but there definitely is but i think it's i my worst nightmare i think i put it on myself um like i feel i just need to get back to the team and like show up for them yeah and also even like social media to be like you know there's this there's this thing isn't i think when you're a creator as well it's like i'm working do you know what i mean so it's like i'm just because it's like you're not documenting every single minute i'm still here um i'm here like i am i'm you're seeing like the highlight but i'm also obviously working i'm also obviously going through struggles i don't share them because it's like well common sense everyone goes through hard times doesn't mean you have to like constantly i'm like that push that on people I'm like that and a lot of people kind of sometimes that annoys people too because they're like I don't know if it's the mindset of you're not very open or relatable with certain things but I'm too busy trying to get myself out of the shit situation I'm in I don't think about putting my phone up on the side and filming myself while I'm crying like I just can't imagine that being my thought process I actually rate anybody that does because I'm like it's really powerful the message but I can't I'm too in it I need to come back in a few days when I've processed this friendships I'm you know they're they're like hello you okay and I'm like you'll find me when I'm fine yeah and I'll tell you after the fact this is what I've been going through they're like oh my god yeah and it's so funny you're either that way or you're not yeah and I think as well you don't want to yeah it's like to me I think like I said it's like obviously you're going people go through things like every someone's always going to be worse something's always been Yeah, so I, and then I think, so why would I share that?

1:00:26Because it's, I'm still so lucky in so many other ways. So like, why am I going to complain? It's always like, read the room. There's a lot going on in the world. Who cares that, you know, my business has been incredibly stressful for this last month. You know, or whatever it is. Or whatever it might be. Yeah, like I actually put up a photo dump of like my first trimester, which I was, it was hell. And there was a one photo in there where like my husband had got it. And I was like, had an ice pack on my head. and then people were like well why are you not sharing more of that and i was like well because i haven't got my head over the toilet i'm not gonna like yeah like throwing up in the night and i think when you're very kind of you live in that positive space and i understand it but i don't also look for that necessarily in other people like no i see it as a bit of an escapism yeah exactly and i'm like oh it's a love what lovely picture gorgeous like that's kind of I don't want my algorithm yeah too much yeah negativity um but yeah I do feel I mean I'm taking off a month um that's what I've said you're so like me this is unbearable yeah I'm listening to myself I know which is yeah I mean I you know it's not a lot so why don't you not make decisions that would all that would be my advice because I can I can actually hear myself come falling out of your mouth it's actually so funny is it bad I mean it's great I'll take it but what because I think it's really being present I understand you in the sense that you need this to feel like you and that that for me always makes me a better parent and I'm convinced because I I really it's like my version of having a massage like doing this doing having that minute for me doing something that I'm so passionate about will always light me up and I can pour into everyone else in the best way but there's just something about that new bit that i think you have to see yeah and you're in a great position where of course there's a lot of pressure on you riding on you because it's your business but equally like you've built the team yeah and like you one week you might be like i'm back but then the next week you're like i'm fucking floored yeah yeah do you know what i mean so it's just you're gonna have to sort yeah and manage that a little bit no I know and also I think like that newborn stage I'm sure whilst you know just you wait it's gonna be you know incredibly hard and everything as well but like it's so incredible and it will go so quickly and I do just want to be so in it and I think that's what it will be more so than like oh my god I can't is this is it's more that it's you don't want to miss a thing yeah it's like it's a really strange thing of like my mum always says babies are the biggest time wasters because you're there all day and you're just looking at it just look can't wait oh look that was a yawn like it's like a yawn will make your day and it's like they've got hiccups like it's it's so yeah and then at times you're like oh my gosh i'm watching you cry all night because you're hungry and i don't really know what to do and it's so up and down again but then it's it's business right it's not linear it all does a little bit of that but i think you just make sure you give yourself as much grace as you need at the start yeah it's hard though isn't it because it's it like so fortunate with like what we do and and the um but you know like some women get like a year off and that's but like i don't have that choice so i think as well it's kind of it brings that lioness out in you it's yeah reason to yeah and then also in terms of you know like feeling like i need to get back into you know like i've already had people comment i'm like can you just i'm like why are we commenting on this like you'll bounce back in terms of your body i get that a lot i think because of of the fitness space that's such a toxic kind of i hate that sort of statement of bounce back well i'm bouncing i'm not sure back i don't know back but yeah i mean i'm also getting a c-section so you know i can't work out for like six weeks or so and i had three so i think that in itself it's just kind of like i'm just gonna do my best and like feel good like hopefully get back into like a nice lifestyle um and you'll know and nobody else knows the answer but you and i think that is the thing when people comment and people share so much advice that's why and that's why i say that to you my only advice is is that is just see how you feel and yeah like you say when you look at an average maternity leave of like a year plus self-employed doesn't give you that grace so you kind of have to give a bit of grace to yourself because it's, you know, it's, it's not probably, it's probably not going to be a year, is it?

1:05:02No. So it's just figuring out how, sadly, how, how that looks and how that works for you. Yeah. I think my husband as well, because we are, we work from home a lot of the time. So I think having that support is incredible. People forget about the husband. I'm like, by the way, there is another half here, which, you know, I'm in this situation. Yeah. but I am nervous a little bit of like the because I I want to be able to feel I don't know I don't know how I'm gonna feel I might have a baby and then I might go mum mode and just think this is it but like that's not but whichever way it happens you're it's a real evolution of you and you'll know you just will and you kind of have to like that's what my advice would be like they say make a plan and god laughs like it's a little bit that isn't it it's just see how you feel and and know that because i was so nervous i was in a girl band when i had and like i was young and we're known for being a sexy girl band mini dresses slotting back to four other girls that looked incredible and the pressure that i put on myself to try and make that all happen but actually that's kind of the peak of my career has happened since i had a family and i was worried that I was like going to get kicked out of the band and never work again and I think sometimes I know but it's just what this weird brain does when you're hormonal but it's because of everyone it's the unknown society yes even like coming today I was like oh god I don't know if I want to come because I might not like how I look and I was like I don't want to give myself that narrative I was like I'm like nine months pregnant like get over it and just by the way it's like a bit of vision sorry that wasn't me no I know it wasn't but I'm just letting you know it's a vision wow right let's do our rocket round now this is our quick fire round yeah first question is what would you say are the non-negotiables for running a business non-negotiables for running a business um i think not being afraid to fail um and being able to yeah like try things like don't be afraid to try something new outside the box because those fails are just going to be complete learnings all the time yeah um and don't start perfect because otherwise you'll never start yeah nice that's very good advice when did you first realize that you truly launched i don't think ever i think like i'm still i don't think in for me personally it's always like i said earlier like i'm moving great now the next thing yeah and i think whilst i feel like we we have obviously launched but But I think if I feel ever like, oh, we've done it, then I should check out.

1:07:48Yes. Do you know what I mean? Then I shouldn't be in the business anymore because I think there's always that fire in you to want to drive forward. Yeah. But I mean, I don't know. Was there a moment that you thought, okay, let me reframe that slightly. Yeah. Was there a moment that you thought this is connecting? Like a bit of a light bulb, like we're really on to something here. do you know what actually when we launched my pilates time strength guide um which was off the back of my own personal journey with endometriosis and that method of training hybrid and having a hybrid app i was like this is it because for me when i just did strength training i would burn out right i couldn't do it like five days a week absolutely not a chance whereas having that hybrid and the movements that really complement each other and then other women experience it and benefiting off of it and it growing and word of mouth when that happened alongside with also launching the like menstrual cycle in app yeah i was like okay this is we're on to something and how does that look like what really like gives you a real indicator is it like the volume of subscribers or new like like what what does like incredible look like when you're like now this is it i think it's the subscribers the amount of people doing the guide but the feedback that we get on socials myself like the stories we've done loads of interviews with our consumers um and said like what was what you know made you convert what made you stay and I think that has been such a huge...

1:09:33That's fantastic. Yeah. It's like a big learning tool, isn't it? Yeah. To be able to tap into that. Because we're so lucky that we have our social medias that we're able to kind of have that one-to-one... It's like a focus group, isn't it? Like without even it being intentional. So yeah, I probably say that. What's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed? Right now, probably snack. To be honest. Or are you even sleeping at the minute? Yeah, no, not really. Last night I think I got about three, which was strong. They say that, and I really notice this particularly with Blake, the times that you wake up in the night are the times that the baby then wakes for the feed.

1:10:12And I quite like it. It made the getting up and not sleeping a bit nicer. I'm like, hello, don't worry, I'll feed you soon. Yeah, no, I get really hungry in the night. So I'll have my dinner and then I'll have like a bowl of porridge and bananas just before I get to bed. until I sort of feel you. Because it's like, hey, like, please, stomach, don't wake me up. Yes, I know. It's so weird. It's crazy, isn't it? Yeah. So, yeah, probably at the moment and then just trying to drink loads of water. Yeah. Yeah. It's all around food or drink. When you're growing a human, what else do you expect? Yeah, it is.

1:10:47What's one piece of advice that you wish you hadn't listened to? One piece of advice I hadn't listened to... to um i mean like my family and stuff would laugh because they're saying i'm strong and if i don't want to listen to something i'm like that's an answer in itself yeah yeah but then i also think like just trusting your gut because there was something that i did years ago and i said no to it four times and then they were like no like really and i just knew and they were like well and then anyway it went tits up yes so i think just yeah like listening to your gut yeah and not doubting that and not doubting yeah if someone gives you advice doesn't matter how successful whatever if you're questioning it then there's a reason you're questioning it so maybe just don't don't listen don't listen exactly back to the first one yes what's this skill that you'd love to learn um so maybe two i don't know if i'm having a girl or a boy but i would love if it's a girl i'd love to be able to because my mom was a hairdresser and she always used to do my hair and that for me now i'll ask to plait my hair sometimes and stuff it just makes me feel core memories yeah and i'd love to be able to learn how to do hair so that i can do my little girl's hair i think that would be like that's a nice thing to do when you if you have a girl when you're off in that time to like, mum, can you come and teach?

1:12:15Like it's quite a nice bonding thing for you all. Yeah, exactly. I think my mum would love it as well. Yeah, and no doubt she'll be around a lot in that first. Oh yeah, she's like, ready. I'm ready. Yeah, and also learn how to cook probably. I'm not very good at cook, which might be surprising. That is surprising. I just thought you would be like whipping it up in the kitchen. No, no, it's very basic. We don't have to go into it. Cooking and hairstyles, that's it. that's your mat leave sorted that's what yeah exactly perfect um what's one thing you wish someone had told you before you started either of your businesses i think probably um hire slow fire fast yes i think that one that's magic advice someone actually giving me a bit more guidance on how to hire i think yeah that probably would have well you only know what you know don't you and it really is like learning and unless you kind of are a sponge and someone's giving you that advice it's knowing when you need to hire thinking i'm exhausted we need help but not knowing how to sometimes because then you get the help and you're like oh this has made it really work yeah now i'm spending my day showing them what to do i could have just done it yeah yeah yeah probably that um what would be the dream collab for you or for your brand um i think maybe with we glow i've worked closely with whoop um and i think like those two together we've done like a few things and it's recept it's received like really well um and then just like their vision and everything and how they're scaling is incredible so i think that would kind of be and also we have integration of um everything like that into the app anyway so i think it just feels like a natural one and then um i mean like someone like road obviously you know like a huge successful female lifestyle element i love it when you see like two brands of kind of like opposite worlds but yeah of course the girly that's on your app would probably be buying a road lip balm and there is that crossover now and i love seeing those brands come together that are from different places yeah no i love that as well and i also think with like seffy and like beauty brands there's such a crossover because of like color palettes you can use yeah and so many different things um yeah probably this watch this space yeah and if you could choose one female figure uh as a mentor past or present who would that be i think it would be emma great yeah yeah did you get her a lot yes but do you know what no but she is she is yeah i get it she's incredible she is the person i'm lucky enough to have her on in my phone but it's the person you want on speed dial because either for that boost or that kind of little pep talk or you know she's seen it a thousand times before advice but she's really it's so incredible to see what she's achieved yeah it kind of continues to yeah and i think she's fearless that's the thing about emma is she is fearless.

1:15:23Yeah. And it's kind of, it's really inspiring, isn't it? Yeah. To kind of soak that up. Yeah, I think to tap into her contacts. I did also think of Chris Jenner because again, just like, I was like, she's just like the matriarch. Yeah. She's fab. And all, like tapping into all of her contacts and like the businesses. Like how has she managed to make sure that every child of hers is successful in that way? Insane. Like it's incredible. And she is really hands on. Like I wondered that. I've interviewed a couple of people that have had to work with her for brands and they've maybe booked and she's really like it is chris that you're dealing with i'm like that's like now to me that's wild like back then maybe not so much but like now negotiating with chris jenner over contact i mean just a casual day in the office love it but you can imagine she's probably so like yeah yeah like yeah what is it well i can imagine the negotiations quite kind of for the person on the other end of it it's like oh shit i'm not gonna get away this is Chris fucking Jenna so yes Chris whatever you want yeah which is why I'd want her yeah exactly that perfect exactly give me that energy um each episode I ask our guests to leave a tip almost almost like a tangible piece of advice if a listener is listening today and they want to sort of they're looking at your story and inspired by it and want to do something in a similar vein what would one kind of tip be to if they were yeah if they want to take action right now what would you say to do or like what homework could they yeah i think in whatever you're doing and whatever job you have if you're not fully in it then that i think you have to be in whatever you do like 100 you don't know who you're going to meet you're also not going to ever get the best out of anything when you're not giving your 100 yeah and of course you're 100 looks different every day like that can be 10 some days and stuff like that but what i mean by that is is that the jobs that you're doing even if you're like oh why am i in this i hate it this doesn't feel like my passion but still show up like it is because i think when you show up with that mentality of becoming who you're trying to be then you're going to get there whether it's in the job that you want right now or the job that you potentially will get because there has to be that like stepping stone you can't just like you can't be like negative nancy and be like i don't like this i don't know what i should be doing and then the next day founding your dream company yeah exactly obviously you have to take action but i think being present in what you're doing and really giving it everything that's such good advice is like key because also if you i don't know if you turn up somewhere and you're like miserable or you're not friendly you're not having a good time yeah and like no one else is having a good time so i think it's kind of like just trying to and again of course every day starting with the future now yeah and that's what we dior bariaco who's an amazing life coach my life coach and she you know does regular slots on the podcast her whole kind of ethos is about designing your future self yeah and you can design her today so yeah what does she look like where does she go what does you know what is she doing but there are steps that you can make today in becoming that future person yeah and just see in the job that you hate for a week give it your all yes and like show up how you would if it was your dream job and just see the like positive impact that might have on you and what you take from and what you take from it and how you see people receive you as well i think that is yeah yeah say that that is such that is incredible advice and then lastly yeah we talk about ladies who launch and i've i suppose now this might look very different for you but when it comes to being a lady who lunches oh yeah what is your kind of on a working day for you what's your dream lunch where are you who are you with and what are you eating um now it's just like pickles and like random ice no actually i'm oh my god i didn't i didn't have that i actually haven't had too many like weird my friend had soil soil yes she was like i just want and in the end i think we like sort of settled for like beetroot because it was earthy yeah like that kind of real yeah i think they all mean something don't they that you might be deficient in x if you're crazy it will kind of mean something yeah i was craving actually oranges which is because you need more vitamin c and stuff like that so isn't your the body is amazing yeah um well i mean this is not gonna sound like a dream lunch but at home i'm like a baked potato gal with a filling so good so like are you joking that is such a dream lunch yeah so like for me i'm like sweet potato tuna sweet corn mayo like really quick really easy and then it's like filling and lovely um or like yeah this is what i mean i can't cook like jacket potato and beans like honestly this this is what i mean basically a student um and then recently i've actually like really craved like and loads of my girlfriends who've been pregnant as well like caesar salad oh like a really crunchy refreshing you just want that like refreshing and a bit of like parmesan you know that i'm gonna show you a recipe that i made the other day it's really easy but it was this lady i just this is my algorithm by the way it was it popped up and she was like this is the life-changing lettuce salad and i was like i'm in i don't know why but it was like and she was like describing it and she was like you know when you eat watermelon it's juicy and you get really satisfied she was like this is the salad i'm gonna i'm gonna send it to you yeah you will love it yeah i love yeah i love anything like refreshing yeah exactly um and salads because you don't have to cook i guess fair and then if you were going if you're gonna go like out for lunch and you're gonna take the team somewhere yeah where would you order yeah so i mean i love daphne's oh yes that's one of my faves like a pasta um although lunch if i eat like too much for lunch it makes me really sluggish yeah and especially now i want to have a nap which you can't really do no um so yeah i'm just trying to think of places a bit like a good pasta if you kind of if you were out and yeah he wasn't at home and yeah yeah i love and what sort of like spicy tomato i like a good arabiata yeah i'm a spicy girl yeah i'm not like carbonara no and cheese i can't have cheese okay so you're on that spicy tomato yeah yeah perfect vodka pasta oh i've never tried that what no okay fine i'm sending you what is vodka pasta easy to cook as well so you like it i'll call it well you put vodka in boxy the alcohol burns out so you can have it well thank you very much we have shared everything from business to recipes to pregnancy stories thank you so much I've loved it and congratulations on everything, your success your bump over there and honestly I'm so excited for you, you're going to be an incredible mum you've got this if you can nail the world of business parenting is a walk in the park I did it in reverse and I'm like oh my god I would have breezed the mum thing if I'd have had a business business first.

1:22:42Yeah, it does actually teach you a different level of patience. Patience. Exactly that. Patience, for sure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.

1:22:55Don't forget to follow us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts to make sure that you don't miss out because next time I'm going to be joined by another incredible lady who launched. If like me you're a watcher then follow us on YouTube and please don't forget to like and subscribe. Thank you.