Ep 67: Everything you need to know about tax ft The London Accountant

0:00Welcome back to the Launch Box. This week we're joined by the amazing Nicole, also known as the London Accountant, proving that although tax and accountancy itself isn't that interesting, building wealth is. Today we're going to deep dive into the best ways that you can make savings within your limited company. So please welcome to the podcast, Nicole.

0:30thank you so much for coming on today thank you for having me i love launch box episodes because i take away so much selfishly but also i know that our listeners do and i can honestly say having female financial experts on the launch box i love it because i think sometimes it's such a sort of scary topic of conversation like actually being open and honest about our finances or what we should be doing or because a little bit back to school isn't it because there's a lot that we kind of ignore or perhaps don't know what we should be doing so I think these episodes are really really important for that and there's so much that we can delve into but I know that you and what you do is all around limited companies and how that should look so we'll talk about saving taxes in your limited company and everything in between but I like I quite like a clear concept so if you're listening to this you know what you're getting today we are delving in to the world of limited companies right before we start and sort of deep dive into hacks that we should know in case somebody listens to this actually doesn't know what is a limited company yeah so a limited company is a way that you can structure your business so you might have heard of a sole trader that's when effectively you know you're in a business in your own name a limited company is a legal structure which is separate to you so people may have a limited company because they want to have the protection that a limited company affords so you know you're keeping your personal assets separate from your business it's also a level of prestige I suppose to having a limited company um and you know when you work with suppliers and customers so yeah a limited company it's very different from a sole trader it's got a whole different set of requirements you know you are a director you have more structure about how you take money out the company um and there's a bit more compliance so you know i think for people who want to be a bit more entrepreneurial and are just thinking long term and want to have large growth and employ people and become back registered a lot of them will go down the limited company route it's more complex but it's more protection um but you know it's just really important like we're going to do today just talking about things to be aware of when you're running a limited company congratulations because i've noticed that you've really built a following around having these conversations in what you do what made you bring it all to instagram and tiktok social media i suppose yeah well i think for me i want to make finance like really exciting i think there's a lot of founders who you know who have limited companies who go okay this is like not for me I don't understand it it's not interesting yeah she is me I am her you know the eyes close over and things like that but I just think that you know when you are in business your whole idea is to make money right and money is a financial concept and I think that if people you know grab it by the horns and actually enjoy it and engage a bit that can be incredibly empowering and also you know looking under the lid of a limited company and it's understanding that the mechanics can just give you that confidence yes and even though you know finance itself or accounting and bookkeeping might not feel sexy when you think about what you want to achieve from your business whether that's like a villa in Portugal or um you know working three days a week and taking four and a half thousand pounds home every month that's what you need to kind of visualize and that's what makes finance like really relevant right once founders get that then you know I've seen with my clients it's quite transformational yeah yeah yeah I bet because it's not like like I said before not viewing it as a scary idea like I'm fully creative that's the side of my brain that's always awake this side of it is where I need to give a little more love to because I kind of run away from any finance chat which is why I find these episodes and I have businesses it's not the right attitude at all um and I have to do it so I do but I don't necessarily naturally find it exciting I get that and I think HMRC don't really make it they don't make it exciting exciting yeah or easy for business owners to know what to do so that's like another challenge so I think that's why I kind of started doing what I do getting financial concepts tax concepts as how to run a limited company in a format that is entertaining educational and engaging digest it and understand exactly I think that's what's important right so let's start with some things that we think that people should know so what do you think are some of maybe the lesser known perks for limited company directors yeah um so these are kind of perks that my clients love um anyone loves everyone has a perk um i don't know how long they'll be around for so you know take advantage of them now use them every single year as a way to yeah get value from your limited company so number one it's called a trivial benefit so it means that you can spend up to 50 pounds six times a year so a total of 300 pounds um on literally anything so some of my clients will go and get six 50 pound john lewis vouchers and the company can pay for that and there's no like additional taxes for that right so you know it's a great way to kind of reward yourself because you know running a limited company is uh you know you deserve it there you go um and then another thing that people don't know about is the kind of the annual staff party so even if you are like a sole director of a limited company which a lot of the people I work with are they and their spouse can go out for like an annual party it's 150 per head so if it's you and your husband it's 300 pound total spend and you can put that through the business and you know it's tax-free as well wow I didn't do I never knew that well there you go there we go I mean thankfully I have an accountant yeah I didn't know that myself um an annual eye test yes that's another one so if you need like screens which a lot of us do um as part of you know working then you can expense um an annual eye test you can't really expense the glasses usually but the eye test itself you know can be an expense for the limited company see these are hacks um this one is really important an annual health check yes um so you can potentially go to buper or another provider and just get like a body like mot and that's also an expense that you can put for your limited company wow so you know those are some perks that people might not be aware of they might be but you know it's just important to be aware of i think this one's a big one that i'm seeing on the list mobile phone with some private use so explain to me what that means and how that could work yeah so you know once you start your limited company you might want to actually have your mobile phone contract in the name of the limited company right so even if you have got some like small private use you know most of us do but a lot of us use our phone um as part of a business anyway don't we for social media as well um so yeah you can effectively have that line rental go for your limited company and it be tax-free wow yeah okay that's a big one yeah because like you say particularly startups you know a lot of a lot of communication a lot of I don't know the way that your brand is executed day-to-day runnings of that business will be done via a phone yes so that's important that's a really big one to know yeah but let's talk about working from home can because a lot of us do right post 2020 a lot of companies are structured the way that they work whereby they might then be instructing self-employed people as consultants or what have you and they are predominantly working from home now can you claim expenses whilst working at home that's a really good question um so yeah as you say a lot of people work from home and the idea is that you can effectively claim for a portion of the home working costs that relate to your business right so what could break that down how how do you think that could look yeah so in the case of a limited company what you can do is you can either you know claim a flat rate which is 26 pound a month towards your bills or you can set up a kind of formal rental agreement between yourself and the limited company right so effectively just say you've got your house and you're like working from one one room you're effectively going to rent that to your limited company as like a business premises if that makes sense okay so what you would do there working with an accountant is that you would probably like list out the different expenses um that you're incurring from working from home things like council tax mortgage interest um and you know utilities and then work with them to a portion and amount to your business so then every month effectively you can pay rental from your limited company to you personally wow yeah that will that will really that will be such a big impact for so many people to know that and to know that's possible yeah And how easy is it to sort of, like you say, you'd have to, I'm assuming you'd have to structure something like that with an accountant.

9:33Yes, I would say, particularly in this area, it's definitely worth being to an accountant. Because with the kind of the homeworking calculations and things like that, there are some risks, you know, potentially when you come to sell your property. If you were to say that, OK, one part of my business, one part of my home is completely business related. So working with an accountant, you can kind of go through these risks and just make sure you're not inadvertently. yes doing something that you know you weren't intending yes okay okay that's that's I mean that's incredible um next question can I get tax relief in my limited company for child care nursery costs we know like this is such a big thing child care is huge and what you are or not entitled to when you decide to have a family and how that impacts so many particularly mothers working lives yeah so is there is there tax relief there because those nursery costs and those kind of child care costs are a great expense for so many people yeah those are no joke i've got two young kids and i understand um but yeah no generally you can't expense your nursery costs through your limited company and even if you did there'd be tax implications that would make it not worth your while but it's really good to be aware of that as a limited company director you can be entitled to tax-free child care where effectively you know you put eight pound in and the government puts in another two pound right towards your child care costs and just making sure that you're paying yourself a salary so you can be entitled for this tax-free child care not everybody knows that so you have people kind of coming to me going oh gosh I want to get this tax free child care quick get me on the payroll um so if you are like a mother or father who has a limited company and you want to you know use that scheme just make sure you're speaking to your accountant you know up front about payroll and paying yourself a salary because that's really really important can a limited company pay and this is this is a really interesting question this feels like I might have wrote this yeah can a limited company pay for Pilates classes or gym membership um because I suppose it depends what you do for a living right but if part of your I don't even know if that's a because you could class that it's very good for health all around mental health physical health visual so it's something like that obviously feels self-indulgent is a Pilates class or a gym membership something that you can pay for from your limited company yeah I actually love this topic like what you can and cannot claim for your limited company in terms of the expense because I think people might think that HMRC's got like a list of like what you can and cannot claim but they don't so it's a kind of about applying this kind of principle of you know it's not necessarily what you're expensing but it's why okay so for example in the case of mentioned was it a pilastis class or a gym membership yes maybe something like that or i had someone the other day saying you know can i expense a peloton membership through my limited company or a subscription um so just say for example you've got a gym and you um you you know, you rent out your, you know, you have a Peloton subscription and people come in and they use the Pelotons and then you effectively charge them for it.

13:08That effectively is a business expense because you're in the business of providing, I suppose, this kind of, you know, Peloton service. Yeah, yeah, yeah. However, if you're, you know, you're not doing that. I don't have a gym, I've just got Peloton. Yeah. How does that look for me? No, yeah. And you could argue, you know, you could say, look, i'm rochelle i want to have a peloton because i need to look good right that's kind of part of your brand and you need to look fit you need to help look healthy but hmrc's got this concept and it's called you know for something to be claimable for a limited company with no kind of tax implications it has to be wholly and exclusively for business right in layman's terms this means it has to be a hundred percent business now the way hmrc sees it that if you've got something that's got some kind of personal benefit then it's no longer wholly and exclusively for business got it so it might be that okay yes there's a business reason that you might have a peloton or have a pilates membership but that's not the only reason you're going yeah the other reason is that you just want to look nice in general or you want to feel good when i feel good or have like you know good health you know maintain your body which has also has a kind of private hmrc said no yeah they're like no no don't feel good don't look after yourself just like work work work um so yeah that that's just something to bear in mind and i think that's a really interesting concept wholly and exclusively so that's the thing to remember i suppose when you're trying to decide whether you know and obviously we're hypothetically talking about pilates class for an example but whether you know you're trying to decide what would what you could get taxed back on it's if it's wholly and exclusively used for business yes and there's like other examples we'll kind of go through as well where you'll see this concept come up again and again right essentially if there's like a level of duality if there's that personal benefit as well as the business expense HMRC generally will say okay that's not wholly and exclusively for business that can't be kind of claimed for your limited company with no further tax implications got it okay well good to know sorry Pilates yeah sorry about that um could my limited company pay for a trip abroad I suppose we're going into the same territory aren't we yes exactly and I had a client recently and she went to Italy for two months so you know I saw all these flights and train tickets and things like that and I was like oh interesting you're in Italy for two months is this really like a business expense and she said okay no but you know remember I'm in Italy and I'm working so surely I can just claim everything while I'm out there as in sort of working remotely from wherever she is yes right a bit like a digital nomad she had a few you know meetings out there but essentially it was a bit like was it eat free love that kind of like so I was like okay um HMRC would view it that you know you don't need to be there you've kind of chosen to work from there and contrast that if you know if you're a model and you're going to Paris for a catwalk you need to be in Paris for that catwalk and you know you're generating revenue because you are there so you know if you are going abroad and you know as part of that two months you're out there you need to see a supplier or a customer you can potentially claim for the you know the travel from to go and see them right but you couldn't just claim the whole trip in its like entirety yeah because like you know the main it has a business element but it's also a massive personal benefit so you know there's that duality of purpose again but to contrast that to say back to that model example if you are in Paris and you just happen to you know while you're out in business you happen to have an evening out or you know you see the eiffel tower that would be a kind of incidental incremental personal benefit right secondary to the business okay purpose so that would you know you probably you know you could claim your flights or your train tickets to paris and in that instance but not perhaps the kind of personal when you're there yeah well i think makes sense anyway right yeah i think in that scenario i think it's more that the you know hmrc if there's if there's a small personal benefit so you know because you know you go to Paris you're going for dinner what if you were taking a client to dinner so you were going you were in Paris and you were doing a show and then you decide to take the client that's booked you or team that might be with you where does where do you stand there that's a good question so that would then move from travel into client entertainment okay so you know if you are out and about and you go to the Paris show and you grab a croissant or you go out for dinner that evening it's quite reasonable and quite small and it's just for you really that's still travel because you need to be you need to eat but then if you go to Paris and you go actually I want to bring all my clients out I want to take them out for a nice lavish meal then that would come under client entertainment in general it's better to pay for client entertainment through your business but when it comes to the corporation tax return you don't get a deduction from it it's still worth paying for client entertainment free limited company but just be aware that at the end of the year your accountant's going to come to you and kind of say we can't put that on your tax return and how can you justify this yes exactly um can my limited company pay for my clothes if i'm client facing that's this is it's quite intricate isn't it all of this because it's almost like how do you police like it's quite broad but i suppose that's that's the point so so tell me can the limited company pay for clothes yes it's a as you say it's a kind of nuanced complex question um and we're going to go back to that principle again of like you know duality again um but yeah you might think that okay yeah i need to wear smart clothes and accountant um i don't wear these clothes unless i'm with clients right so therefore oh actually you know maybe it's a business expense because i wouldn't wear this otherwise but generally you know looking at the case law this hasn't always been the case so there's a really good case and it's about a lawyer the case is called Malalu and so this lawyer she's a barrister and she's going into court and she has these kind of black drab dresses that she wears only for court right she's actually said that outside of court I like wearing colorful clothes because of our job probably yeah so I'm literally wearing these drab dresses only because I'm conducting business so I want to expense this effectively and then effectively HMRC said no you can't expense this clothing even if you're only wearing it you know for work for work and with the basis that yes there is a business purpose here but there's also a personal benefit which they described as being to give you warmth and decency so effectively it's a there's a benefit to yourself by not walking around naked that's yeah benefit to most people we don't want to be walking around with no clothes on so they said because of that you know you can't effectively claim um the expense for your your drab black dresses um so that was an interesting principle it's really interesting because if she can literally prove that it's for work and for work only and she's not wearing it to meet her girlfriends on wherever else yeah that is quite interesting that is that that's they're so firm on that yeah i think that at the time they said like they didn't want the floodgates to open because they thought that okay if we kind of say this is okay you're gonna have everyone's gonna claim like so much clothes from through hmrc so that's one example um but then if you like notice for example like you know steve bartlett he he has his t-shirts on and he has like huell written on yes so if you wear clothing that has a kind of conspicuous logo on it to promote your brand or your business that kind of comes across as more like advertising and marketing so you can actually claim the cost of that t-shirt for example i'm gonna start wearing a ladies who launch jumper yeah like she's put everything like get gucci gucci dress so hang on wait wait break that i mean that almost sounds a little bit unfair because at the same time i'm promoting something and it would be advertising which would mean i could generate sales from promoting it but i'd also get some tax relief from that yeah essentially yeah wow that's so interesting yeah so that's the idea we're gonna start branding everything anything that stands still you're like right let's brand it yeah so that's an interesting and then also like you know if you've got just general uniforms that are like obviously business related you know you can those that can be expensive and then also anything that's like health and safety so like high vis right helmets but then there was another case that which i think is fascinating given you know the rise of the influencer yes the personal brand and this is the case of daniels so this lady was um an exotic dancer i think she was string fellows right and she wanted to claim all of her costumes so we're talking like extravagant hair pieces loads of makeup see-through dresses high heels like she's literally not wearing it anywhere but there yeah yeah she's not ticking warmth and decency in that sense um and that's effectively what you guess what the court said um so in this case you know the clothing she was wearing wasn't really there to give warmth and decency and it was like at a level that was almost like a costume that a stage performer would wear so i find that really interesting because you think about like you know lady garga or like you know vita or back in the day when they wear clothing it's very clear that it's it's you know almost like a costume isn't it well it absolutely is that's part of that sort of you know i remember when i was in the girl band like yes the tour costumes were there for a purpose you literally wouldn't wear and couldn't wear them anywhere else yeah so that's just something to bear in mind i think so when you know if you if you are potentially an influencer or you know in that kind of entertainment space speaking to your accountant to like look at you know what can you claim for clothing um because you know there has been you know examples where there have been successful claims yeah it's being creative i suppose with it um if i throw a party yes for suppliers and clients can this be deductible so in this case once again we're looking for it being very much business so i have some clients who you know after four or five years might have a big old party to say yep look a business business for five years let's let's have a shindig um and you know if as part of that party they're having examples of like what they do they're showcasing their products their services you could say that's more of advertising and promotion right because you're kind of saying like look look at look at my goods it's almost like a brand awareness event too yes exactly um so that for example could be like you know allowable as an expense versus if you have a party where you might have like 10 minutes where you just briefly show the products and then the rest of it is you know champagne and a dj and things like that that would then probably come under client entertainment right which is you know not deductible for tax purposes so it's once again it's like the reason why and showing to hmrc you know that this is actually business okay okay so it's almost like that's a bit case by case scenario isn't it's quite it's hard to give a clear sort of answer on that because i suppose the promotion of the business needs to be clear yeah and i think that's just the key thing of all of this is that that's really why an accountant is very useful because you know it is complicated isn't it from what you can see from what i'm talking about and it is done by a case by case basis and it's just very particular to the facts and the circumstances for each client yeah and there needs to be that clarity across everything really there can't be a gray area here could you give me sort of a few things that our listeners could think about almost to grow wealth as a limited company owner so I'm sure you've got a list of sort of do's and don'ts yeah but as as you know if somebody's starting out and you kind of want to put those foundations in place for when the business grows what would you say are non-negotiables yeah so I say as a limited company owner you want to make sure you know how much to pay yourself every year and I mean that's a really big starting point it's really easy to inadvertently take out too much and then have like higher tax bills than expected which is obviously going to impact your wealth and having that kind of consistency in approach is going to be you know it's going to add up over the years really and then I think things like thinking about pensions so a pension contribution from your limited company to your personal pension your private pension is tax deductible right and that's a really great way to make sure you're saving for the future and also kind of saving corporation tax at the same time and then I think outside of that just you know knowing all the kind of things I've talked about here making sure you know what expenses that you can claim thinking about as well long term you know who is probably a bit more complex thinking about you know who is employed by your company so it might be in the case as you get older and your children get older and things like that you know seeing it's more a family business getting them involved right as employees potentially and and even looking at things like you know who owns shares so you know a lot of people kind of might start off by themselves but it might make sense for them to have them and their husband or their wife the shareholders and as you know as the kids get older putting them on you know the share register so it's kind of taking that long-term approach like understanding the basics but also thinking like between now and the next kind of 10 years what do I want to achieve right and who's going to do this with me and I think that's probably the best way to build wealth and would you say that that's something that you need to think about at the start or as it grows as in like who's going to be employed who's because it's quite like it's quite almost hard to predict the future isn't it as in like how this business grows who might so is that something you think you should try and preempt like who could potentially be working is there any benefits of doing that earlier on or is that something that can do as you grow I think it's worth having like the vision of what you want to achieve and kind of almost working back from it so even like day one like i have a business coach and it's just thinking you know and it will evolve over time yes like if mine's changed like 20 times but at least it's kind of going okay like this is like the end point i want to get to right and then you know speaking to your accountant potentially even like a financial advisor or tax advisor as well to just make sure that you're kind of setting up right from the start a lot of people don't do that like it's not common i don't see a lot of my clients making those decisions day one yeah but i have seen people you know get down the line and go oh actually that would have made sense to have done that you know oh my god that's what we all do right and i suppose it's those learnings and like we always use the definition scrappy startup because at the start you're literally just trying to figure everything out yes yes and but if you can preempt it there's definitely benefits in doing so yes yeah i would say so um what do you think the biggest mistake limited company directors make because and I'm sure it goes back to what you've just said is kind of not future-proofing a little bit but what are the most common mistakes you see so I think it is not to not to scare everybody it's just not saving for your taxes so the amount of times I've had situations where you know somebody might have turnover of like 150 ,000 pounds but have you know 200 ,000 pounds of back taxes to pay because they've not thought about VAT they've gone to the threshold not thought about it or they've just you know say you know they've spent their corporation tax money themselves and now they need to pay that to hmrc so yeah i think for me just being really having a really good understanding that's kind of what i do on my channels and things like that is just to be like okay what taxes do you need to think about from day one yes so you know the company pays corporation tax number one you know if you take dividends out of the business you're going to be subject to income tax on those dividends if you go over 90 000 pounds in sales in any 12 month period you need to register for vat and pay vat and if you employ people you know think about employment taxes i think that's most of them but you know just having that awareness and putting money aside potentially each month for your tax bill that would have helped a lot of people that i've seen who have had very stressful very much situations where they haven't got the money need to pay the tax bills and also it doesn't go anywhere so it's kind of like it then arrives in that bill that you haven't prepped for and that like can that can kill a lot of businesses too from the start when actually the cash flow is completely emptied by something that is not avoidable how if you was going to do like a ratio because obviously this is quite i suppose it's hard to say to generalize but if you were to sort of give us a little percentage of how much you think we should be saving of what hits our account for tax and for you know that bill that hits us when we're not expecting it even though that we all should be by this point because we know it's going to happen yes um what would you say like a percentage of income or turnover that should be kept away yeah i would say roughly 30 to 40 percent um that you know putting that aside you know putting that aside each month uh what i also recommend is if you have a limited company have two bank accounts so have a current account which is you know your kind of trading account and then have a high interest savings account in the name of limited company so then when you're moving your money aside for your taxes you can still kind of earn interest income on that okay so you know that way you know almost like you can't see the money in your bank account so you're not going to spend it and at the same time it's kind of working for you and making you some money with the interest income yes but yeah I would say yeah 30 to 40 percent and if it's over or under at least you've got a little bit of a contingency at all times really and give yourself a little rebate that would be nice yeah definitely and do you think there's anything else aside from tax that we are doing wrong I think that kind of going back to the point at the start is that kind of engaging with finance because I just think that you know if hard work and vision was enough then like I'd be a billionaire by now you need to understand like your profit and loss you need to be looking at your pricing for example yes you're not going to get that unless you start to look at the numbers really so yeah what I see business owners do like what I commonly see is a mistake are business owners not having the right pricing um they're not pricing their time effectively oh i think when you're like what if you're like a you know a limited company owner and you're a freelancer or something like that you almost see your time as free so i think that's a big point that is such a good point so you're almost not factoring yourself or putting yourself in the conversation of your business from day one 100 and i think what you find isn't i guess my litmus test is that if you weren't to be there and you were to hire somebody of your skill set, you probably would instantly find that your business would be not profitable because you're doing so much for free.

32:11So fair. Yes, I think that's a big mistake. So how do you recommend that somebody does sort of price themselves in to that picture? Because it is quite, particularly if, and we always talk about the CEO is, for a startup is the most unsexy job because you've got a bit of everything going on. How would you recommend that they price themselves into that picture because it can be quite hard to quantify that at the start because as we said you're literally doing a bit of everything yes yeah I think it's imagining that you weren't there so if you weren't there tomorrow and you had somebody doing business development or someone doing admin or somebody doing the finance and the bookkeeping or the actual work itself what would that look like and like the reality is when you start up you're not gonna have a budget to fill four or five roles right but it's the idea of you know in five years time or even like less than that that is the plan so what does my pricing need to be to support these roles right so I think you know working out what your costs would be this much and then I need to make sure that my sales are at least this much to give me a profit on having these employees really yeah and I think that I've been guilty of that myself you know I really have been um and then over time I've had to put prices up and things like that and I think a lot of business owners are is worried to put prices up yeah well it's a scary time to put prices up it is yeah and so it's almost like again and i've said this word on here on this episode already but it is future-proofing yeah because actually if you can't support yourself when it comes to having an opportunity to be able to onboard other staff members and employ other people actually that is gonna it could be quite tricky and you would realize quite quickly that you're not profitable without you yes so yeah that is so that is so so interesting i've never actually thought of that but i would i understand that that would be quite an easy mistake to make so if you can sort of correct that from the start yeah and just try and quantify your time i suppose in the best in the best way possible yeah and to be honest i started off really cheap to get clients yeah i think everyone does very when you first start up you're like okay i need to have that confidence and i'm just gonna you know any client is great of course and you don't want to be you don't want of overpriced because you want people to come back and you want that kind of return return of investment how about travel to work because obviously we're fortunate if people will pay our travel but that doesn't often happen so how could that look in a limited company and also what would it cover if it does like petrol or train tickets or how could that look yeah so there's almost like if you're talking about cars for example there's almost like two ways that you can i guess claim for travel for your limited company so you can kind of keep the car in your private name and you can claim 45p a mile towards your running costs for business travel the thing to bear in mind is that business travel doesn't include your commute so if you're going to and from like your office to the home you can't claim for that so the business travel is more that if you're going to go and see clients and suppliers and things like that so you're sort of driving on a work trip or a meeting as far yes not that day-to-day commute yeah not that ordinary like everyday kind of commute right so that's something to bear in mind um and another way to get tax relief effectively for you know transport costs for cars would be potentially to lease a car through your limited company now generally people use now generally people lease electric cars right because if you lease any of a car there's actually a kind of almost like an additional tax charge called a benefit in kind tax charge which makes it like not really worth it right so generally people will lease an electric vehicle through the limited company and that way you can expense like the running costs of um you know the electric car so that can actually be a really good way if you you know if you do want to use a car is to have it be paid for for your limited company me yeah and i can add up quite a lot and make sure it's electric yes make sure like don't bother with diesel don't bother with the the fuel guzzlers because that's not gonna be tax efficient right at all okay yeah so to close if somebody is listening to this today what is sort of something you would want every listener to know that you that you don't think is is necessarily out there and obvious when it comes to a limited company yeah i think it's just appreciating that you know there is no like one source where you're going to find how to a limited company right so it's just understanding like the key points that are going to make sure that you're both compliant and tax efficient and i would say those are things like how do you pay yourself how are you a safer tax making sure that you're aware that you know your company information is publicly available so if you have a registered office address and it's your home address you know people can see that so just making sure that you understand that and you're you know aware of it and making sure that you understand your deadlines you know when they are and I think really like you know I put a lot out there on my socials but you can't really replace an accountant so I would say if you are going to have a limited company from day one really try and find an accountant that you know you can work with that can help you have that guidance throughout because at least then if even when you're trying to learn and get up to speed with these things at least you've got a bit of a safety net yes the accountant has been doing it for years so you're not going to kind of inadvertently get in trouble and would you say in your opinion should an accountant be the first kind of employment that you make as a startup?

37:59I would say it's a great addition to your team when you have a startup over time you're going to be getting more help from people and in a way on the accounting and finance side that's something that you can almost delegate day one to like a safe pair of hands because you know there's not much they can kind of get on with things in the background so I think it's really worth doing um to you know invest in an accountant whether that is just annual compliance but for me I work with my clients quite closely on a monthly basis so I give them monthly reports they can see what's going on so they have that clarity and that confidence and control from day one yeah so if you're gonna you know outsource something start with your finance function and it's always good to just from the start have clarity in that area because lots of us don't and lots of us kind of then go ah actually somebody wants to help me with this now and maybe there might be investment on the table but exactly you're kind of accounts you've not got your own head around but if you've got support in that yes from the start it would make i'm sure everyone's lives a lot easier um thank you so much thank you for having that has been so useful i've learned a lot today and i feel like there's loads that i now need to go and have a look and check yeah am i doing this am i doing that um but yeah i really appreciate that there's so much that our listeners are going to take from this so thank you thank you thank you very much

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